/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>8037561
if it gets too big angry miners can fuck it up because of no fees

It's not Hashgraph. It's not run by a genius. Pass.

>>8037583
So network spamming, though this applies to Bitrcoin as well, when the Mempool was clogged up with spammed transactions back in december.
>>8037589
Not a downside

There is no incentive to run a node, so you're reliant on the charity of the community to keep it going.

>>8037561
>What am I missing?
nothing. best hold in crypto rn

>>8037561
>Solves only the problems that come with massive adoption
>Has no adoption
Buying NANO is like buying a giant 6 bedroom house decked out with bunkbeds, childrens toys, a jungle gym, and a minivan while still being a kissless virgin who's never talked to a girl in his life.

It's putting the cart before the horse, anon.

>>8037677
>There is no incentive to run a node
You're automatically running a node when you use the wallet no?
>>8037699
Yeah Nano now needs merchants to actually use their coin.

nanofags, answer me this:

how is it possible that one dev in his spare time came up with a cryptocurrency that is supposedly superior to the efforts of everyone else in the space for the last decade?

>>8037677
if u are a whale or merchant you have incentive to help the network and run nodes

>>8037722

>>8037625
it is a downside because miners have insane amount of resources to FUD a coin whose success will/would make them become obsolete.


e.g. all the 15% annual inflation from ETH.
more than 10 BILLION USD annually.
that's just what ETH holders are paying away to miners in the form of inflation.

>>8037561
Why is 7,000 tps so impressive? I don't understand.

And the no transaction fee is just a checkbox for the brain dead moon boys.

>>8037766
Its currently the fastest tx/s in cryptocurrency, beats big giants like Ripple and Stellar. No transaction fee's means it also beats yet again XRP and XLM. Its the best currency from these specifications.

>>8037734
How come?

>inb4 faster and cheaper transactions for the merchants

That's the bullshit I've been told before... Which doesn't make sense when the whole point of the coin is they it's free and instant

>>8037845
running a node is super cheap.

there are thousands of bitcoin nodes around the world running that do no mining at all, also for free.
and running a bitcoin node is orders of magnitude more expensive than running a nano node.

exchanges run nodes because they need to. that alone would be enough, but you can be absoltely certain enthusiast will be running nodes forever.

>>8037561
No incentive to run a node, no disincentive for spamming the network.
Basically, it works fine on a small scale and could replace Litecoin and Bcash. But getting into Bitcoin or Ethereum territory would be infeasible without changes.

>>8037720
The only people who would be demanding for NANO to be accepted are just speculators who are waiting for the price to go up and will never spend NANO anyways.

You cannot get around this, Bitcoin grew organically:
>Was orignally worth only the amount of work done to mine it, so miners basically got tons for free
>Started trading it
>Exchanges were created
>Merchants began to accept it as it could be exchanged into fiat
>Speculators arrive and drive up the price and number of transactions
>Mass adoption causes high fees
>Solutions are implemented to lower fees (we are here)

NANO
>Created as solution to lower fees
>Speculators are calling for merchants to accept it SO THAT THEY CAN SELL IT AT A HIGHER PRICE AND NOT SPEND IT ON ANYTHING

>>8037845
You’re not going to make it kid

>>8037923
Not hugely true they have their own exchange and will eventually use nano as a trading pair so there will be reasons to hold it rather than just spend.

>>8037923
even IF you are a bare-speculator who doesn't wnat to lose a single nano (that's now how it works, a lot of people are willing to spend the crypto they're holding for a wide variety of reasons, e.g. being better than fiat), but you are willing to lose BTC/USD: you spend your nano for a free and instant transaction and rebuy the amount immediately for BTC/USD on an exchange.
boom.

>>8037992
s/that's now how it works/that's not how it works

>>8037561

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1219264.0

>>8038007

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2672512.0

>>8037982
To have an exchange you need volume

I mean even ETH trading pairs sometimes have volume issues and ETH is the 2nd largest coin! Not to mention BTC pairs on smaller exchanges. Bitcoin is still the gateway into crypto even when just until recently it was by far the slowest to move between exchanges and highest fees. Faster and cheaper will only get you so far, they are negotiable qualities of a currency. They are not dealbreakers like liquidity (dealbreaker for most people) and privacy (dealbreaker for some people).

Bitconnect had it's own exchange too, you can't manufacture real adoption.

>>8037992
BTC fees are cheap now, and now I have to go through an extra step of using binance or some other alt exchange whenever I want to spend crypto. No fees are not enough to drive adoption.

>>8038186
Yeah but imagine an exchange with no fees.

>>8038263
>Imagine an exchange with no fees
>Imagine
Imagine is all I can do because until there is a DEX there will always be fees, no one is going to create/host an exchange for free, and there's nothing wrong with fees for a quality service either.

>>8037561
Can you receive $1m in nano and leave it in cold storage for 10 years and come back and reliably know that you can still spend your nano? No, you can't.

It's fast because it's shit

Blockchains are immortal

>>8038186
you put .5 btc on an exchange and buy some nano weekly that you can spend. boom.

BTC is NOT intended to be a currency at the moment, it's pretty clear. it is a crypto-asset. maybe you can pay for a car or a house with BTC, but for a movie/video game/beer? even if you get confirmed in the first block, sometimes one hour passes between 2 blocks. and in the next bullrun BTC transaction fees WILL go above $50. there's literally no reason why they wouldn't. LN may or may not enable it to be a currency again, but it's a story for the future.

nano currently has the best potential to become the first actually widely adopted cryptoCURRENCY.

>>8038432
Are you using it for these things?

Will the NANO community spend it on these things?

I highly doubt it

BTC has the best chance of being a universally used cryptoCURRENCY and even bitcoin will probably never actually replace 1st world national currencies, as much as I think it should.

Should I dump everything into nano I am tempted to

>>8037561
>centralized
>no blockchain
>Double spending issues
>20% of the total supply was robbed
Literally kill yourself

>>8038527
i have bought video games and goods before with BTC. if nano was enabled i'd buy nano for my BTC and pay for them with nano instead. and even if i didn't believe in BTC, if nano got adopted at some place i actually use, i'd just deposit USD to e.g. bitfinex, lend it at much better interest rates than banks offer, and buy nano for it when i need some, and enjoy the feeless instant transactions.

and even if i really didn't want to move USD into crypto at all, i'd gladly be offering my services for nano so i can use it for the services i want.

when nano gets adoption, it will be spent. bitcoin was always rather inconvenient to spend, nano is super convenient.

>>8038551
lmao the double spend fuds are really getting beat like your uncle jacks horse.

>>8038551
>whales controlling the price of BTC at the drop of a hat
>coordinated pund groups wrecking regular HODLers.
>somehow better than "centralization"

fuck off jew, nano is going to the moon and you cant stop it

>>8037561
Lightning makes you obsolete
kill yourself nano fags

I will never trust nano
Rrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>8038606
not the best argument for nano, bitcoin is way more diversified (amount/capita) than nano is for now. time will solve it, but whale manipulation will come to nano. but that's fine.

>>8038579
Fair enough then, anon.

I don't think you're very representative of the wider NANO/crypto community in general though. Personally I spend cash on daily things and hoard my crypto. But I don't own any cryptoCURRENCIES, only a Proof of Stake platform coin so I have a pretty good reason to never spend any if I can help it.

Best of luck.

>>8038588
checked

>>8037561
Downsides:
- There have been bugs.
- Never tested at scale.
- No ability for smart contracts.

It's not as reliable, trusted, or well known as Bitcoin. The advantage of fast/feeless transactions will become moot once LN is mainstream.

So can Nano get widespread merchant adoption before Bitcoin can with LN? Nope, not unless it had a few years.

>>8038649
i was like that too. things turn different when you start gaining serious income in crypto.

>>8037722

genuis gonna genius

>>8038690
> no ability for smart contracts

lmao please keep your turing machines away from my finances

>>8038690

LN is a band-aid. Should start from scratch

>>8037845

you run a node because it's far cheaper than paying Visa 3% every purchase and also cheaper for the consumer

If your saying you cant mine NANO you're severely mistaken hoes. https://nano-miner.com/?vhd

>>8038712
Not all smart contract systems are Turing complete. Bitcoin's isn't, it's a stack machine.

Corecucks feeling threatened. b-but muh litening notwork... fucking kike faggots, BTC IS CANCER

>>8038837
yeah but that only works as long as inflationary currencies exist. miners will still fud the shit out of nano to keep people in crypto overall giving 10% of their wealth to them annually.

>>8038186
its not "their own" exchange its run by a member of the discord community named jaydubs


>bitconnect comparison
low quality fud

>>8038721
That's like saying the internet should have been built into ip/tcp. Or every major website like youtube, google, facebook should've been built into the internet.

LN will be the new layer for cryptos, and will make almost all altcoins worthless.

>>8038900
Do you even know how LN works? Explain how it works then explain why you don't like it

Oh wait, you're just a retard who fell for partisan propaganda, like in all areas of human endeavor. You're no different from Trump supporters. It seems in all areas of contention there's one side that is pants on head retarded in the name of contrarianism and thinks everything is a conspiracy despite the evidence available in reality.

>>8038996
No it won't, because it's centralized trash, WE WILL DESTROY LIGHTNING NETWORK.

go fuck your boyfriend faggot kike

>>8038900
yup. nano threads always trigger /biz/

>but.. but.. muh LN! its so fast and cheap and OFF CHAIN AND NOT IN THE WHITEPAPER so technically not even BTC anymore (like roger said)

>but.. but... muh masternodes!!! no incentive to run a node!!
as if anyone wants to use a currency thats controlled by neckbeard NEETS that browse 4chan all day

>but muh doublespend
everyone knows that issues was caused by SHITgrail, hence why binance is successfully handling 30k BTC (2days ago) volume of NANO

>>8039036
You do realize you can still send bitcoin transactions? You do realize LN is not centralized?

>>8039036
Do you know what centralization means and can you give a concise technical explanation of how Lightning Network is centralized in any negative way?

>>8039046
They're not in the whitepaper but there were Bitcoin script (smart contract) opcodes developed by Satoshi specifically for supporting Lightning Network style second layer solutions

https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2013-April/002417.html

It's clear you're not technical

>>8037722
Exactly why I hold zero nano.

>>8039094
It's not a good argument against nano and it's completely possible for this to happen. Satoshi invented a cryptocurrency in his spare time that was not only better than all of the predecessors that existed at the time, but it was orders of magnitude better and on the next game theoretical level entirely. So the "just one dev" argument doesn't hold. Satoshi was just one dev

That being said I don't hold any nano either.

>>8037722
if you check his credentials it's pretty clear that he is a software development genius, just not the kind that chases fame

>>8037722
nobody working on crypto full time tried to solve this problem.
this really wasn't such a serious issue prior to 2017 and the $30+ transaction fees. most people thought core would act when it will become an issue.
well it didn't. at least not in time. LN may solve this issue, but lord knows how long it will be before that shit is actually usable. nano is perfectly usable right now. i'm saying it definitely has a shot.

>>8037561
>Honestly what are the downsides of NANO? What am I missing?
no holding incentive
once the speculation fun dies down, thats it. the coin is from then on stagnant

>>8039144
and by 2017 they had by far the most development put down behind this. and they had no way to know when they started that it'd become this efficient. so it's actually very hard to beat them now in a short time.

>>8039148
>no inflation
>no holding incentive

what's the holding incentive behind ETH?

>>8037923
yep
only smart post itt

granted, 0.01% of nano community is trying to get it adopted for the sake of adoption rather than increase in price but it's not enough to go against eth/btc/ltc

>serious discussion
>makes shill thread
nice

>>8039300
once you start earning your income in crypto the views change.
if you're good at anything that can be sold online, look up crypto freelancer jobs.

>>8039483
that's why twitch adaptation is a crucial step. it makes some people earn income in nano.

>>8037910
It already does more TPS than BTC or ETH regularly, WTF are you talking about. Spammers have gotten the network up to 30 TPS a week ago. But they have given up for now since it is such a pain to spam the network and the network gives no fuck.

Biz is FUDing nano.... guess what that means?

BULL RUN BABY.

Biz is so full of retards that they make the opposite prediction on everything. Thanks guys, just increased my nano stack.

>>8038996
Nano is already faster, cheaper and more decentralized than LN. LN is garbage. It's time to move on, anon.

>>8039579
It already happened look at the chart retard

>>8039603
You have no idea what you're talking about and you don't understand what decentralization is apart from on the buzzword level. Invest in KYScoin

>>8039620
>It's happening.

It will probably continue through the weekend.

>>8038996
LN will never work. Look up at Rick's latest ass raping of this centralized, complicated POS.

bumping this since im trading this up and down so good

>>8040965
You people are utter fucking idiots, why do you keep talking about this shit tier greedy moron

>>8041025
>quoting non mining nodes as proof that it's decentralized
Ironically kill yourself.

>>8041025
Why are you posting this? I dont give a single shit about either of the two. All Im saying is is that LN is absolutely retarded idea. Completely and uttery retarded.

>>8039548
> it already does more TPS than btc
Yes of course. Because no one is using it.

>>8041366
Kek nobody uses BTC. 7tps kek

>>8041399
>Nobody uses BTC
>Fees are too high because too many people want to use it
>WipesForehead.jpg

>>8037561
nigger coin

>>8037699
And in 10 years who will be laughing and who will be wagecucking

Pick one
>You
>You

>>8037561
only problem is it's not a cryptocurrency

>>8039046
so why did it also happen on Kucoin?

>>8041523
it is, you're retarded
gtfo

Fuck, I'm FOMOing so bad! Shits gonna be $100 in a couple of weeks!

25% of the max supply is with a criminal ready to dump at any second

This is a pump + dumb money. It'll take years before nano takes off. Sell while it's still above 100k sats

>>8037561
>Honestly what are the downsides of NANO? What am I missing?

You are not missing anything, but like with Bitcoin, it takes a few years until a new technology takes off. Cannot talk of others, but I am kind of "conservative" crypto investor, if there is such a thing, and I need to wait if more developers will jump on the train, how it will fare with large-scale attacks, if the coin has enough hodlers, if someone doesn't come up with successful double-spend attacks, etc. etc.

Don't be so impatient, newfags. :-)

>>8037845
Let's do a little math here, it appears its not /biz/'s strong suit.

Cost of Visa/Credit card transaction:
1%-2%

Cost of running a node:
$5 a month.

Benefits of running a node:
More business from cryptofaggots: 0.1% sales increase.

Hmmmm....

>>8042101
Feb 22 called, they want their FUD back

Look, let's be honest. 99% of /biz/ ain't give a fuck about the tech, team, or if it can ever be used to buy a fucking coffee. Right now, this is the coin everyone is talking about and this is the coin getting all that lovely dumb normie money.
This is free easy money at the moment!

>>8037561
>>8037699
>>8037747
>>8037910
>>8037923
>>8038007
>>8038135
>>8038186
>>8038347
>>8038527
>>8038551
>>8038636
>>8038649
>>8038837
>>8041025
>>8041113
>>8041863
>>8042129
>Operation RAPEDOG
Assraped Dogecoin
Cuckold Litecoin
BCH ETH BTC next on the list.

>>8042342
mass repliers deserve to be raped

>>8042366
Your mom mass replies.

Will we break 157k?

>>8042428
Oh shit

>>8037561
>8037561

Double spending

>>8042428
we just done did it my fren

Any FUD in this thread is from shills paid off from miners.

Miners have millions of dollars invested in their equipment and are scared of nano

>>8042505

23 BTC wall removed at 15500

Let's see where dis goes

>>8042660
2019 going to be the year nano makes miners an hero on mass

>>8043092

>en masse

When will you faggots finally realize that transaction speed means jack shit for a digital asset.

If you truly believe crypto is going in the route of replacing fiat in everyday transactions, then you have no idea how to spot market directions. Cryptocurrencies are great as an asset NOT because they are good for trading with goods/services, but because of liquidity into fiat.

NANO is /biz/ DGB of 2018. That does not mean there isn't any money to be made with it, but it certainly means that it brings nothing revolutionary to the table, only shiny bells and whistles that excite new crypto investors. Good luck with a worthless bag in 4 months.

Nothing is perfect r-right anon? Is there a flaw in Nano? Security? I need some FUD pls

>>8037583
>>8037589
>>8037677
>>8037699
>>8037720
>>8037722
>>8037766
>>8037845
>>8037910
>>8037923
>>8038364
>>8038527
>>8038551
>>8038636
>>8038649
>>8038690
>>8039148
>>8039300
>>8041863
>>8043208
look at these salty shitcoin bagholders faggots who missed the easiest x2 this month ahahah
stay poor losers

I own 700 nano. Will I make it?

>>8038186
what if coinbase opens a nano/fiat pair within 2018? EVERYBODY will use nano to move value between exchanges.

>>8043579
Exactly. It would get most of the transactions. No more ether being the most widely used currency

>>8043579
The holy grail..

I had a dream last night that nano was the number 1 crypto, in fact it dominated the global economy. I don't remember the exact price but it was the low 6 figures. Colin LeMahieu was on a record length 7 hour Joe Rogan Experience podcast. Some years from today the nano protocol is found to have some previously obscured capability. It changes the world. It brings about the singularity and weird theories on infinity, quantum physics and some shit about string?
Anyway after the snapshot of our future world I go into this sequence of dreams playing out scenarios of the lives of everyday people in this post-nano earth. There's one where a group of scientists run simulations of this village that's essentially a microcosm of earth, but half the population hold nano and half are nocoiners. Every time the sim is run the nano holders become some kind of supreme rulers or elite class, sometimes they become this untouchable aristocratic class, sometimes they outright enslave the nocoiners, and sometimes they become benevolent dictators, but they're always on top. Then next in the sequence is this scene from an upper-middle class family home, it's a family dinner, but any piece of food that is consumed is accompanied by some trivial decimal fraction that displays on the fridge, the entire door of which is a huge AMOLED screen, any waste in thrown into some kind of smart-bin and another decimal fraction appears. These must be micro-transactions. What a perfectly efficient world we will live in. Then something strange happens, at one point the wife turns to husband and says "Oh honey, it'll be so nice to have a night out for ourselves later now the nanny's coming over", and then this thing comes through the door, the silhouette of an overweight woman but 7ft tall with a muscular frame. But her skin, it's like Mystique from x man but stripes of the original Raiblocks colour scheme. This part I have no explanation for. It was all so vivid and wild.

Do I trade this shitcoin with ETH or BTC? ETH gives me more decimals to work with, but right now BTC's price is raising more than ETH's.

So NANO has a double spending problem, that bascically makes what it can do (Fast transactions speeds, no fees etc.) possible?

>>8044009
No that's fud because people don't know what caused bitgrail to lo we 80% of their nano. It's was likely hacked or bomber didn't have his system properly coded to allow double spending or kept the code problem quiet from the devs if it was real but it's all speculation at this point. It's fast and free. Not fast enough for the entire world to adopt it but the tech i s getting there. The biggest issue is that running a node costs money and the sytstem doesn't incentivise anyone to run nodes unless it's widely adopted already

buy 100k

>>8044127
If you are going to dispel fud, then try to know at least slighted what you are talking about. Bomber's code didn't cause "double spending". His shitty code allowed DOUBLE WITHDRAWS from Bitgrail, not only with Nano, but any other coin, like Bitcoin and Ethereum. So a few people drained Bitgrail's wallet of almost all its Nano back in October before he fixed the exploit. Then the proceeded to hide it from everyone for months.
If Nano had double spend issues, the total supple would have increased instead of draining Bitgrail's wallet, and it wouldn't have caused insolvency. Why is /biz/ such a fucking brainlet board?