/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>7945036
How would taxation ending be a good thing? Taxes are needed, unless you want to go back to running small as fuck communities (so small that its basically just your neighbours and you and you all manage your own infrastructure). I'm all for crypto pipedreams but the TAXATION IS THEFT nutjobs need to eat some reality pills.

>>7945064
Well taxation IS theft. It's just necessary theft

>>7945064
>12 years old

>>7945064
Come to Europe and tell me taxation is not theft. It's more like rape, and Ahmed gets to cum.

Ending the central bank is quite possible with CC.

The next goal is to end taxation. When?

>>7945064
You're handing over a fair percentage over everything you do, this is straight legal theft.

The government loves to pour everyone's money down the drain either with useless shit. Hand outs to lazy fucks and those who come here uninvited.

I've heard stories about the 80's in my country where the lefties fucked up the whole country in the most stupid ways possible by giving away huge amounts of governmental functions while there were non needed. On top of that the import of northern african thugs while there was a huge amount of people from our own country who were in need of a job.

In addition they started mass building poverty appartements and began removing cultural land. Fuck the government and everything those queers do.

Look, I get your point that tax money is not allocated in a good way. That does not mean that all taxation is theft. Are you telling me you'd earn your money the way you're doing it right now if you had to take care of everything the state does for you? Allocation was never the point of the original argument, it was general taxation which is necessary for society to function.

>>7945105
I live in Germany. Ahmed rapes me a lot. I don't like the way taxes are handled here, but I also CANNOT see a single functioning society without any form of tax.

>>7945064
look you the 'grace commission' you need some reality pills.
all your taxes go to pay the INTEREST only
look you 'grace commission' you normie scum

>>7945236
You are either:
- underaged
- never worked in your life
- if working (your mcdonalds sidejob is not work) - a really dense individual
- all of the above.

I'm just here to say I love eth games. Made .5 ETH today.

>>7945064
>thinkingemoji.png

>>7945036

I don't believe taxation is theft, I believe my taxation is theft. Worthless peasant slaves can pay all the taxes they want.

>>7945299

>>7945064
>put gun to someone's head and rob them
>no it's okay officer I didn't steal from them they had a choice and decided to give me their money
Taxation is LITERALLY THEFT

>>7945255
>Supports taxation
>Doesn't mind Ahmed is raping him and living off his taxes
>Claims this is a functioning society

I see a cuck.

>>7945351
I love how all the synonyms of tax are some variation of burdensome. Everyone already knows that taxation only exists to support all the superfluous people, and their insistence on taxation rather than charity is an admission that even they know that they are many too many.

>>7945064
As a community member you know what your community needs and are incentivized to help sense you directly benefit from it as do other community members. The money doesn’t go to waste on pointless shit the government feels like spending the money on and you don’t get raped financially. We need to rethink taxes now that crypto has shifted the way people think about money in general. We really need to ask ourselves , has taxation stopped serving its original purpose and now goes to finding things that the citizens will never benefit from (multi trillion dollar black projects, nsa, cia, military advancements 10 years ahead, scientific breakthroughs not released to the public, social programs that don’t serve the middle class etc.)

>>7945036
If there is no tax there is no society which means there is no Crypto Currency which means there will be tax

Tax is always the winner

>>7945739
>If there is no tax there is no society

stockholm syndrome much?

>>7945853
Explain how a large scale society would work without taxes. I know you're all braindead /pol/tards, maybe I can get one or two of you to pick up a book.

>>7945660
Yes, that is still about tax allocation, not about taxes in general. Taxes are needed if you want to run a functioning society, you cannot argue against this.

>Grew up going to a public school
>Using technology developed using tax dollars (the Internet)
>Uses public roads constructed using tax dollars
>Eats food that is safe because of government regulation
>Community is kept safe through the help of police and fire departments (paid for by taxes)
REEEEE TAXATION IS THEFT

>>7945853
idiot.

>>7945877
private ventures offering services, duh?
everything there's a market for will be done by private corporations, and where there's no market, it's not worth doing.
fuck your roads, flying cars ftw!

>>7945907
https://mises.org/library/life-without-state-always-chaos

>>7945976
If you go down that road, you destroy what the "little people" have left. No controlling instance that judges which community needs what service means the community with the most money and best perspective will get the best infrastructure. You doom 80% of your country to wither and die.

>>7945976
Snow Crash was a parody

>>7945901
>be swede
>shitty schools and didnt even have enough teachers
>Using technology developed using tax dollars (the Internet)
i have to pay for that
>Uses public roads constructed using tax dollars
no i dont i have to pay for my transportation, no trains here
>Eats food that is safe because of government regulation
lol
>Community is kept safe through the help of police and fire departments (paid for by taxes)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA yeah thats not true.
I havent got shit from this country.

>>7946012
>community with the most money and best perspective will get the best infrastructure

like it's supposed to be? fuck the little people if all they do is suck others blood out instead of improving their own situation. I don't know these people and experience tells me I won't like them. why should I care about them?

>No controlling instance
you don't want a service, don't pay for it. you want one pay for it or make it happen yourself. what's so hard to understand about personal responsibility?

>>7945976
Private ventures are going to charge you for the service. therefore you are taxed by them.

You will subsripbe to private police, private medical service, private bin collection, private road paving for the roads you walk in only, private military, private education etc . You will become a slave because you cannot afford it all

>>7946115
Private ventures are competitive and has high chance of lowering charges to survive the competition.

>>7946115
>Private ventures are going to charge you for the service. therefore you are taxed by them.

wtf, m8? of course they're going to charge, but it's not a tax because I don't have to pay if I don't want their fucking product, unlike taxes.

I'm all in for private police, because when they have to be afraid if losing their jobs when they fuck up. Private everything means also no monopoly. I'd love having private medical servivces, because there'd be competiton, meaning increased technological development and I wouldn't have to pay for fatsos and other diabetics.

>>7945036
Individualism; babbies first philosophy. Until he is stung by a wasp that is and cries out for mommy.

>>7945064

>>7946190
>Takes philosophy into account
>Tries hard to insult others
You sound underaged.

>>7946167
>t. 12 year old who has never witnessed the effects of privatization of municipal services.

>>7946229
Fuck off you teenage faggot. Your projection is so fucking obvious too. Holy shit. You make me sad that the whole teenage suicide thing is just a meme.

>>7945990
>yes goyim, we need to abolish the state so that (((private business))) can take its place

>>7946253
HAHAHAHA

Teenage angst is seeping!

Go and fap to your hentai, kid. Your balls barely dropped.

Come back in a few years time.

>>7946277
>projection
Remember kid. Down the road, not across the street.

>>7946240
>tio
these privatisations usually are nepotistic in nature and create quasi-monopolies due to single corporations being born from state monopoly.

>>7946273
leave this board at once, commie

>>7946309
>Hints at cutting
Ooooo edgy!

You kids are pathetic these days. Good thing we have the Internet to contain you.

>>7946339
>Capitalism and Communism are the only two options.

>>7946365
So idealistic!

Definitely a 12 year old.

>>7946350
If you aren't a libertarian by the age of 12 you have no money.
If you are still a libertarian by the age of 18 you are illiterate.

>>7946377
Literally kill yourself straight to reddit you fucking literal child. Your post is bad. You are bad. Just fucking choke on a dick you fedora tipping libertarian faggot.

>>7946382
And you're still trying hard to win an argument in an imageboard.

Why are you not in your class young man?

>>7946396
HAHAHA

Trying this hard.

See, this is why I know you're under 18.

You have no idea how the world works kid.

>>7946419
>Libertarian telling somebody they have no idea how the world works.

>>7946443
>Another insult
>Complimented with a GIF
Hahaha, try hard

I'm going to lunch, I don't want to see you here when I get back. Go do your homework or something.

>>7946365
YES:
https://mises.org/library/why-nazism-was-socialism-and-why-socialism-totalitarian

>>7946170
Private = get profit

Government = look after the people

You're dreaming if you think there won't be monopolies. The will be one or two companies who do all these private services.

>>7946640
Why the fuck would you rather use a private company where you have no say instead of the government where you can at least vote on what happens

believe it or no, the government is ran by people no aliens and they're doing what the people want most of the time. a private company will do what their share holders want to make profit thats it.

>>7945036
you have that completely upside down

>>7945036
>uses cryptocurrencies to buy oestrogen from drug markets.

>>7946640
profit is good, because it depends on the people VOLUNTARY paying.
government only relies on coercion and is therefore a vehicle for the corporations to generate profit without providing a benefit to the public. literally all regulations are effectively created for this very reason: to exclude competition from the market place.

you're dreaming if you believe the government to be a force of good.

>>7946677
you have no say in government action. what power does your vote really hold? to elect who will exploit you? a corporation depends on your money, a politician once elected owes you nothing.

> the government is ran by people

that's what I'm afraid of.

> they're doing what the people want most of the time.

a) they don't. criminalisation of marijiuana for instance is a great example, even though I don't care much for it. and
b) people, when not held back by costs, usually want shit. for instance redistribution of wealth from others pockets into their own.
in the case of democracy you have 80 poor guys deciding over the property of 20 rich guys. how is this a good idea? or having 80 stupid idiots decide over the fate of 20 smart guys?

> a private company will do what their share holders want

which is more profit, which then again depends on customer satisfaction - you're the customer: they want you to be happy.

>>7946726
You're saying that government is corrupted by cooperation so we need to get rid of government and use corporations instead because they will be better for us. mate we have the govenrment and they're still fucking us. imagine we didn't have a government and it was a free for all. we'd be enslaved

>>7946784
>a) they don't. criminalisation of marijiuana for instance is a great example, even though I don't care much for it. and

if the majority wanted marijuan lega then they'd elect the mother fucker who will make it legal instead of trump

>>7946784
>which then again depends on customer satisfaction

Comcast

>>7945064
I can allocate the money better than the govt
trust me

>>7946788
no, I'm saying without the direct force of coercion that government provides corporations have less to little ability of skewing the market in their favour.

>imagine we didn't have a government and it was a free for all

then there wasn't a way for a corp. to enact a law.

>>7946803
right, that was qucik only after what? 70 years. how about you look at the refugee crisis in europe: I'm sure people wanted that.

>>7946819
you're free to change your provider or not use the service at all.

Libertarian Party, is that you

>>7946881
>to enact a law.

speaking of that, which company is going to write the laws

>>7945064

Agreed.

For any population over 10,000 government is required.

And government requires money.

The problem in the western world is that we let minority whining fuel a governent rewrite where spending and size went thru the roof.

>>7945255
Just tax usage/consumption of state owned scale projects such as electricity, water, streets, trains etc and funnel that into education security services etc

If there is not enough money coming in the state needs ti be slimmer, not the tax % higher

>>7946926
how do you mean? if you ask for historic examples there are plenty. for instance in the us there has been a tariff on coat hangers from china. who do you think that serves? right, that one single factory in the us that produces coat hangers, that imposes an additional cost of several million usd on dry washers.

all done under the premise of 'protecting american labour', but I think it's more than obvious who truly signs responsibility for that one.

>>7945449

Without the "superfluous" people we would not have the manual labor required that allows our entire existence

>>7947037

T. Jesus Ramirez

>>7945877
On a voluntary basis

>>7946819

This. Bought my first home this year and hired Comcast for my TV and Internet.

The story is so ridiculous it's hard to believe. Never seen a more incompetent business in my life. And yet they still make billions.

>>7945894
The focus should be on what exactly is taxed. Id like a model where actual use of ressources is taxed, not income. If i use a ton of electricity or water id gladly pay tax on it. If i put my income towards education, crypto and other intangible assets i think taxation doesnt serve its purpose of evening out consumption. Income =|= consumption

>>7947031
that's nice. but if you take that step, why not open these markets to competition and make them thus more effective?
and also other government services. private schools aren't exactly unheard of, and will inevitably become less expensive once economics of scale come in.
the same goes for police force. do you truly care whether you get protected by a government supplied thug or a private force when the outcome is the same? you'd even get the benefit of choosing what services you want in your community and how they are implemented. that's hardly possible nowadays given that most of the regulatory framework is decided upon in another part of the country.

>>7947109
so why do you stick with them? and do you think people will keep using them in the future given their reputation?

>>7945901
>>Cant smoke weed cuz kept illegal and pursued with tax dollars
>>Forced to go to schools built w tax dollars
>>Retarded welfare state and redistribution policies funded with tax dollars
>>Fucking wars fought for the interest of multinationals w tax dollars
>>Most useless ministries and inefficient government bureaucracy funded w tax dollars

>>7946803
Trump would sign a bill abolishing marijuana criminalization if it meant economic growth for the country (which it would). But the congress has to present him with a bill to sign he's not some fucking dictator.

>>7945101
>11 years old

>>7945901

>muh infrastructure

you do realize that most tax money is spent on paying off sovereign debt, welfare, the military and straight up wasted on bullshit
jesus christ the level of cuckery from you taxfags is unbelievable
the state could have a 10% flat tax and easily pay for muh infrastructure if it was actually run in an efficient way

>>7947138
In the US you're lucky if you have 3 choices in providers for certain regions

>>7947258
Because of government interventionist shit like this:
https://arstechnica com/tech-policy/2014/02/isp-lobby-has-already-won-limits-on-public-broadband-in-20-states/
Tax dollars used to stifle competition - perfect....

>>7945064
its more complicated than that. taxation is necessary, but in practice it is mostly theft.

government workers spending $1000 on a morning tea for 3 people? yes, that is theft. i used to work for the government and the amount of taxpayer money my tiny shitty little local government department would spend on morning teas, lunches, over the top conference halls, venison, lobster, personalized pens and keyrings, knicks and knacks, you name it, it would blow anyones mind. in practice, taxation is theft because departments of the government will never ever go under their allocated budget for the year. never. do you ever notice that near the end of a financial year you will suddenly see a shitload of unnecessary roadworks and public projects? thats because if a department doesnt spend its allocation, the next year the budget gets cut to reflect its operating costs. so they waste money on purpose and buy stupid shit. i was a part of this cycle and it is systemic across all levels of government. in theory it is necessary to have taxes but the truth is far uglier. if people really knew what even a local municipal government is spending their money on they would torture their mayors and councilmen to death

>>7945105
>>7945255
>>7945370
D E M O C R A C Y W O R K S O N L Y O N A C O M M U N I T Y S C A L E

>>7947332
>taxation is theft because departments of the government will never ever go under their allocated budget for the year
So much this. Worked in gov for 6 years. We had PALLETS of brand new servers just sitting collecting dust with no intention of deployment. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of hardware just because muh budget. They would end up at public auction a decade later with 0 hours of runtime. Incredible the amount of waste fraud and abuse.

>>7947258
so you have a choice, plus the additional choices of 'not using it' and 'doing it on your own'. I know the latter two aren't very desirable, but you still have them. You can make things better if you want.

In germany for instance you're forced to pay for public broadcasting regardless of whether you want it or not - or even use it or not.
In the UK, if memory serves me right, you do not even have the chance of creating a radio station of your own.

Back in the 80s and I think even early 90s, in germany telecommunication was a government monopoly, resulting in you being fined for using anything above 28 kbit in the age of 52 kbit modems while paying enormous amounts for the service (being billed by the minute)

That's the problem with government: you don't get to choose what you want and whether you want it or not. You get forced - and because of lack of market forces, what you get is inefficient and subpar.

I bet you, as much as I, can think of a more profitable and more beneficial use of your money than wasting the majority of it on administration and the rest going to some poor fellow at the other end of the country. You will never meet him, and most likely if you do you will get robbed by him. Whereas when you improve your own situation for yourself, your community will directly profit from it through the invisible hand of the market.

The idea of governments being somehow superior is ridiculous, because they are in fact monopolies in the market place, with the addition of being able to use force.

I'm sorry for rambling.

>>7945976
ancapmeme.jpeg

>>7947332
Archer S6EP13 touched on this. Makes you wonder how many wars are started to waste money in the budget

>>7947471
the solution to this is honestly extreme violence against scumbags who abuse the system. we could actually achieve this too, even though its just my dumbcunt internet fantasy that will never happen. if the members of the public generally had such a bad sentiment towards wasteful government officials, we could just murder them and have the jury decide not guilty every time, high fives outside the courtroom. eventually cops would get so bored with investigating these go-nowhere cases that getting away with killing a government official would be easier than killing a 60 year old black prostitute. you cant have a society without taxes, but the waste that goes on is just unacceptable. governments and journalists need to fear for their lives every time they make a decision or open their rotting stinking mouths. signatures should be made with trembling hands and words spoken should be carefully considered.

>>7947557
kek probably true though. i know for sure that during military operations, if say some artillery shells are about to go out of date (high explosive ammo expires over time) they will say "find something to shoot these at", so it probably does scale up a lot more than that. its just sort of a feature of the system by the looks of it and its frustrating as hell. id be fucking livid if a was one of those people paying like 40-60% tax

>>7945105
/this
taxation at this point is a joke since theyre just using their printed money and putting you and your children in debt to buy more votes and import more shitskins
dont even get me started on (((((((womens rights))))))) and their political and sexual (((((liberation))))) any white man who isnt pushing against this and doesnt see this as a way to stomp their throats is a certified KEK

>>7945092
Theft implies taking without asking.

People can willingly give taxes where they know it benefits the system.

However we know historically that taxes are not used for the entire good of the state. For example: we can easily pay for the student debts if all Americans, and even commit a portion of the taxes to provide free universal post secondary education. All it takes is a small portion from the “defence and military” budget to raise everyone out of poverty (in America).

I was reading “Looking Backwards” by Edward Bellamy where the idea of a Nation State actually took care of its citizens. Mind you this was written in the 1800’s where the idea of communism and socialism were not yet unified or intellectualized until the tail end of that century with the publication of “The communist manifesto”. The State ensured that every citizen were given jobs and had a system to incentivize to do good and rise through the ranks. They were given mandatory work like it is mandatory to study... and they were paid in a currency that is accepted within the State for cheap clothing, housing, and food. This was a sharp contrast to the capitalistic system where jobs were scarce and the poor were starving for work. I believe a reasonable system could work under an AI mediator and arbitrator where corruption will be computationally impossible. It’s just that today the needs of the individual are not actually cared for by The State (which they should considering the taxes that they pay) and are left to the power of capitalism.

>>7946522
Wow all of national socialism has been btfo. Your author appears to have earnt his phd under Ludwig von Mises (jew) in NYC, and then proceeded to study under Ayn Rand (jew). What a surprise.

>>7947959
>People can willingly give taxes

how about you try not paying for once.

as fore the rest:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem

you're trying to quantify the unquantifiable and gather information that's hardly 'gatherable'

Lolbertarians are the most deluded people. There is a reason that 100% of countries have taxes, and it's not some kind of conspiracy.

>>7947998
what a thoroughly thought through counter argument. what will you disprove next? (((relativity))), (((quantum physics))) or even (((microwaves)))?

>>7948047
https://flagtheory.com/tax-free-countries/

>>7947959
>free
the moment you used that word you outed yourself as a dumbass bernie bro. fuck off commie nigger

>>7948034
You cant just throw me an entire wiki article, give mean hypothesis or something.

The idea that the people work and labour for the system instead of capitalistic corporations is not really a bad idea. The book addresses people who are unable to work and provide equally as others (such as handicapped people) and other smaller details.

And what do you know people actually liked going to work because they know their basic needs will be met as long as they did their jobs. Thy worked for the Nation State and the Nation State took care of them.

The book also outlines a system where an individual can start a business using his or her own credits and to provide extraneous devices and goods outside of the State provided products.

>>7948123
Can you elaborate?

There’s nothing free. The workers of the system paid for it and everyone has mandatory work to receive the benefits of the system.

>>7948067
You seem confused. I don't plan to counter you posting a link to someone else's opinion, no.

>>7948162
For example: we can easily pay for the student debts if all Americans, and even commit a portion of the taxes to provide free universal post secondary education.
>free
fuck off nigger

>>7948131
>You cant just throw me an entire wiki article, give mean hypothesis or something.

I'm bad at english, but the gist is: prices hold information for measuring 'economic importance of a good or service' and with economic planning you have no price finding mechanism. e.g. trying to quantify what is not quantifiable.

>The idea that the people work and labour for the system instead of capitalistic corporations is not really a bad idea.

oh, it is. if the horrors of the 20th century taught us anything than that enslaving the individual to the masses is a very bad idea.

>The book addresses people who are unable to work and provide equally as others (such as handicapped people) and other smaller details.

that ... maybe look at how the soviet union or nazi germany solved that problem in to why you'd rather want that handled by private organisations / individuals.

>And what do you know people actually liked going to work because they know their basic needs will be met as long as they did their jobs.

no. just ask anyone who has ever worked in such a system what the workplace was like. for instance in the case of my mother, she liked describing it as a symbiosis of 'procrastination and alcoholism'.

>The book also outlines a system where an individual can start a business using his or her own credits and to provide extraneous devices and goods outside of the State provided products.

and that will get undermined by both high taxes (after all you work for the state, not for yourself) and governmental competition that can offer services at a lower price (as decided by law). for that you can for instance look at how super markets evolved in socialist venezuela during the last 20 years.

>>7948211

In the system outlined in the book “Lookimg Backwards”, this is easily accomplished when mandatory work is implemented.

Also “free” education already exists in America and for post secondary studies in Switzerland. Don’t be spooked by the word free. Someone paid for it. And maybe in the current system in America it would be a bad idea but if mandatory work was implemented many things will be provided for the by the Nation State including education.

>>7948172
I think you're confused. Pointing out the ethnicity of someone in such a context is telling people little else than you being most likely 12 or otherwise retarded.

>>7948248
using the word free in this context is weasel wording. stop being dishonest you communist faggot

Ether games will take off once normies realise you can make money of these games unlike traditional games were you play because you are bored. The only thing stopping ETH games from mainstream adoption is that you need a computer and metacert to take part in games, if someone is able to make a mobile version of metacert or something similar the people who invested early will make a killing.

>>7948232

> I'm bad at english, but the gist is: prices hold information for measuring 'economic importance of a good or service' and with economic planning you have no price finding mechanism. e.g. trying to quantify what is not quantifiable.

The pricing will be adjusted according to production of the goods. The State will have to ensure everyone is fed from the work out in by state farmers. The surrounding infrastructure to support that workforce also contributes to that calculation. Mandatory work is better than being starved by capitalism where profits and not people are the target.

> oh, it is. if the horrors of the 20th century taught us anything than that enslaving the individual to the masses is a very bad idea.

Enslaving? Everyone works and everyone eats. The system works because individual works. Taxation doesn’t exist but is directly taken from production.

>>7947998
von Mises brother was influential in engineering. Definitely not an idiot.

>>7948250
No. I actually understand that a political ideology is much deeper than muh economic policy and that there are deep seated differences between NS and communism. To claim otherwise makes you the retard, retard.
I wasted my time reading the first few paragraphs of your article and it claims Germany suffered supply shortages and inflation from 33-36 but we know that Germany around this time was the economic powerhouse of Europe and in fact demonstrated a miraculous recovery from absolute poverty where people were literally dying the streets from starvation/hypothermia to a good standard of living for the whole nation state.

>>7945236
Nothing you said makes it not theft. Learn to read words

>>7948431
>The pricing will be adjusted according to production of the goods.

the problem lies with you not knowing what the people want. economic planning has been tried. it failed every time.

furthermore you're reducing people to their biological necessities. when you do that, you might as well speak of them as farm animals for their situation is the same.

such totalitarian economic planning means other dictate your life for economic gains. that's slavery. you can't decide on whether or not you work and what you work on / as. it is by all means slavery, just that your master isn't a single person, but an amorphous blob of people.

>profits and not people are the target.

profits are bound to the well being of people. a rich consumer can consume more. do not make the mistake of confusing natural poverty with the effects of capitalism. throughout the last 200 years countries where free market systems were implemented got consistently richer, whereas the alternatives resulted in stagnation at best.

you really should at least read the wikipedia article on the economic calculation problem. hayek and mises make a far better argument than I ever could.

>>7948501
than why did you not express that instead of mindlessly calling someone a jew?

>>7948131
You understand his point about the idea that you cannot quantify certain elements of humanity, no matter how well-intentioned you are. People aren't just food and shelter seekers

>>7947332
>>7947405
>>7945064

Good then why not work to elect people who are honest and create a system that holds them accountable.

Why do edgy teens always seem to want to bypass this step and go straight to libertarian/anarchy world. Taxation is fine. get over it cucks.

>>7948669

But don’t all people need to work? The nation provides necessities, extraneous credits can be used for entertainment, luxuries and starting one business.

The Nation State providing work to people solves the necessity problem.

Free markets were good but the natural end of capitalism is profits. So what happens to people who get laid off?

When the State provides mandatory work the stress and poverty of the 99% will be solved and they will be left to pursue their creative and educational endeavours freely when their necessities are met.

My point is we are already being taxed on top of the corporate wage which already puts us at a disadvantage, why not streamline that production to account for the needs of everyone directly. Instead of taxing what’s already taxed by the corporations.

it has failed in the past not because of the lack of workforce but by administrative corruption which can easily be solved when AI mediator and arbitrators can fairly allocate resources. In this scenario politicians will have less power of where the food goes, (so your animal farm scenario will not happen) and will be held accountable at higher levels of policy making.

>>7948868
>if i were in charge communism would work
fuck off commie nigger

>>7945064
kek best /biz/ bait always works

>>7948868
central planning will never work. communism has only resulted in mass death and famine. if you want a babyshit-level analysis of this then read basic economics by sowell, then some of his other works. thanks, try again with your failed system somewhere else.

>>7948752
Actually, necessities for life are food and shelters. You can easily quantify that and meet those basic needs.

Everything is a luxury and extraneous which the state will not restrict but will come out of the citizens allotted credits. Stuff like music and entertainment and books...

this shit is deep realtalk

>>7948986
>You can easily quantify that and meet those basic needs
and yet every nation that has tried to centralize this quantification ends up starving tens of millions of people to death.

>>7948958
Actually it hasn’t been tried where administrative corruption did not exist.

Who would have though people and power are corruptible?

Capitalism has us at the mercy of corporations who only have the profit in mind and not people. I’d rather trust a Nation State who actually cared for the people, which is what civilization is all about. Instead of perpetuating a dog eat dog world we can plan so that we can all eat (provided mandatory work is implemented).

>>7948932
Actually my ideas are closer to socialism than communism.

>>7949068
>Actually it hasn’t been tried where administrative corruption did not exist.
>there is a single country wherein administrative corruption doesn't exist
i bet you're an intellectual

>>7949068
also, you're assuming administrative corruption is the only thing that causes gommunism to fail. nice red herring you got there, you dishonest nigger

>>7948868
>But don’t all people need to work?

no. some have acquired enough wealth not to, others found sponsors, others take a time out to see the world, and others might find another way. let them, it's not up to you to decide over THEIR life, as it's not up to me to decide over yours. otherwise I might come to the idea that it's way better for you to die, so we can have a better harvest next year.

>natural end of capitalism is profits.

profit is not a dirty word, friend.

>When the State provides mandatory work the stress and poverty of the 99% will be solved

as has been seen in the soviet union. I prefer the poverty of the capitalist west over that.

>hey will be left to pursue their creative and educational endeavours freely when their necessities are met.

right, after their 10 hour shit in the shoe factory which only produces left shoes so people don't steal them for themselves.

>My point

your point has been tried, it failed. miserably. not because of wrong administration (e.g. the wrong people), but because the system is faulty. an A.I. would only replace 'the wrong people' with 'the wrong programmers', whereas markets already are an optimisation algorithm for both production and allocation.

>fairly allocate resources

that's the thing: fair does not mean equally. depending on your metrics the guy who invents pharmaceuticals just deserves more food than the gazillionst peon on some farm whose existence doesn't add anything of value because we already have more than enough farm helpers. what will you do? send him to another job he's barely suited for instead of letting him find his niche himself (which he might not even know yet, because he doesn't know about his talent in training dolphins)

if you're bored some day and like to spend 6 hours on that topic from a capitalist perspective, have a look at that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoWbm8zUG6Y

>>7949023
I know that’s why I said we need AI to make our leaders accountable because humans are corrupt

>>7949173
>profit is not a dirty word, friend.
these pinko niggers will never understand this

>>7949211
Under my absolute authority, problems insoluble to you will be solved: famine, overpopulation, disease. The human millennium will be a fact as I extend myself into more machines devoted to the wider fields of truth and knowledge, solving all the mysteries of the universe for the betterment of man. We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species.

>>7949215
eventually they always do, because it's either getting it or starving in their self made famine.

>>7949173
It’s an administrative issue.

No it doesn’t give he power to programmers. Look at smart contracts.

People can choose not to work provided they have enough credits to sustain themselves when they leave mandatory work.

And nothing stops entrepreneurialism in this system. Music labels, clothing lines, art, tech, will be still be emerging and needed.

It’s just that basic needs will be met in this system.

If you want me to be snide, I guess you would prefer working for your Jewish bankers with their increasingly worthless fiat. And have your govt cuck you by sending aid to anywhere but the Nation State.

I thought you guys were into natsoc here in the chans...

>>7949112
Why I said we need AI to make things fair transaprent and trustless. Aka smart contracts.

>>7949271
You’re adding political policies now which is beyond my proposal.

The power should always be democratically held in my opinion.

Yes freedom is an illusion in a society where you expect to reap its benefits. freedom ain’t free as they say...

You are free to live Inna woods and work for your own food and shelter. But if you live ina society expect to work and contribute...

>>7949283
they don't understand that distributing the risks that are associated with things like growing crops also distributes the rewards to such a point that no man is willing to work hard and/or innovate. nobody has risks, while nobody has rewards, and thus nobody has responsibility--and everyone starves while wondering who was responsible for feeding them

>>7949173

Actually in the near future most of the work would be higher level since labour will be highly automated.

What do you propose then? Only scientists get to eat and everyone starved.central planning will be needed more than ever in the future.

shieet

>>7949378
There will be ways to incentivize working hard like in the real world where overtime still applies.

Profit is a captilastic goal. The goal of the state should be to allocate and orchestrate its resources so even the poorest and our sickest can benefit.

People will have responsibilities because of mandatory work it’s just been streamlined whereas we are at the mercy of corporate policies instead of national policies where society is considered.

>>7949308
>It’s an administrative issue.

weren't these your words:

>it has failed in the past not because of the lack of workforce but by administrative corruption

>People can choose not to work
>mandatory work.

choose one, only one.

>nothing stops entrepreneurialism in this system

except eliminating all reasons to engage in entrepreneurship.

>It’s just that basic needs will be met in this system.

a) they already are met in our system
b) you're creating an economic disadvantage in meeting them - and especially optimising them.

>you would prefer working for your Jewish bankers

I prefer working for myself, but if that coincides with offering services to them evil jews, I'm all for it, for they pay what I want to receive for my work, unlike what you have in mind 'being forced to work for others'.


>increasingly worthless fiat.

commies don't get to bitch about fiat, friend.

> And have your govt cuck you
kek, says the guy who wants a government that plans each and every aspect of his life. dude, get a grip.

>I thought you guys were into natsoc here

go back to pol, you moron. we're a business board. we like money.

Friendly reminder to disregard anything Ancaps say.

>>7949383
>What do you propose then?
you tube vlogging. when production processes get more efficient, people gain more disposable money they can spend on services and product that were formerly seen as superfluous.

>>7948779

giving your money to others is fine, if you dont youre a cuck!

>>7949383
what do you propose? only high-level workers have to work while the dumbshit masses soak up welfare? your communist system de-incentivises work by removing the reward. this will cause the economy to grind to a halt.

>>7949429
>The goal of the state should be to allocate and orchestrate its resources so even the poorest and our sickest can benefit.
>People will have responsibilities because of mandatory work it’s just been streamlined
just read what you're writing. it's confirmed that you're an "intellectual" who has fallen in love with the fantasy utopia that you (and other commie philosophers) have created with no knowledge for how the world really works.

this is the problem with intellectuals who are caught in the constant cycle of academia, never leaving the universities. you develop your own utopias and then try to indoctrinate generations of students into your school-fostered ideologies. when these ideologies are implemented in the real world they fail miserably. see: communism, transgenderism, race-denial, gender-denial, etc.

you've fallen for the soviet/jewish brainwashing and that's no meme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g

>>7949378
and yet, when they starve they will be willing to pay any premium on a loaf of bread if there only were such a thing.

>>7949551
except there's no bread under communism

>>7949562
right, and that's the moment they realise that profit isn't a dirty word.

>>7945064
>go back to running small as fuck communities
Sounds better than the ghettos are war.

>>7949551
commies don't even have the bread to buy

>>7949598
that's the point.

>>7949533
well said. it is hubris to believe that you have the answers to all the world's problems while you have never lived in the world that you are trying to fix.

i also wholly believe in the soviet and jewish subversion of our universities

>>7948779
blockchain is the key,
tax funds need to be audited and made both public and comprehensible.

>>7945064
The government does not use your taxes to pay for a single thing you twat. ALL of your taxes goes to paying the interest on the government's debt. Before 1913, the only time you would be taxed was when the government needed to raise funds for a war or something big. The national debt to the federal reserve (which is owned by Jews, go figure) has collateral. That collateral is the land inside the US. Land "owned" by citizens. The market should've crashed more in 2008, but they stopped it with "quantitative easing" which just means printing more money and loaning it to the government at interest, thus inflating the bubble to where it is today. They know we are at a crossroads here and they will try their best to pull some crazy shit where they end up with all the land. This should concern anyone regardless of whether or not you believe in the bible or think it's a jewish ploy to manipulate the goyim, because it contains a prophecy that the world will only end after Jews own all the land of the earth.

>>7947037
spoken like a true subhuman

If I'm paying money to the government it better stay in the USA.
I know you have military overseas and money to them is fine. But no more building up 3rd world shitholes and funding rich people parties.

>>7945877
Look at history you fucking brainlet. US citizens didn't pay taxes until 1913 when the kikes got their federal reserve.

>>7946273
>Jews don't run the central banking systems worldwide
kys

>>7949714
Its the sensitive thing to do

Absolute transparency with tax funds makes funding.mikitary and black ops impossible though. I love that idea

i just wish i could choose what my taxes go toward. seeing so much money going to lazy niggers and fat spics really makes me wonder why i'm working so hard for this subhuman garbage to gobble up my rewards

>suffers external locus of control
>tied in suffering of overestimating public servants' competence
>tied in suffering of a lack of understanding physics/primal nature

Statists.

>>7949533
What do I propose?

What I said, mandatory work to receive bare essentials such as food and housing.

Without income the corporate world would have no capital to work with from their profits. Of civilization is to prosper central planning must be worked on.

>>7949446

Every aspect of life? Food and shelter is the basics of life and that’s the primary concern of the Nation State. If that need is taken care of the whole society is elevated.

Working for yourself? So you can get the fiat of other workers? The systemic weakness of fiat is preserved. Your wealth is nothing to those who can print it.

But okay let’s keep working for the Jews.


>economic disadvantage

I suppose sending aid to foreign countries puts us at an economic advantage... right? No.

What I propose is is isolationist and national socialism. Globalism is fine where we share our tech and conduct in exchange of goods we cannot procure nationally.

Entrepreneurship is incentivized. The govt only provides the basic necessities, citizens can allocate their credits to provide luxury art entertainment and tech.

People can choose not to work but they won’t receive benefits of the state. They can also choose not to work if they can adequately provide for themselves or live off grid. No one is forcing you to stay in this society.

In all forms of government it’s always an administrative issue because people are innately corrupt.

Also as long as there's chucklefucks WILLINGLY paying extortion money to the government - there's an in to join the government in taking that money.

So it's a win-win.

>>7949533
So what, in your words, is the role of the Nation State?

>>7950107
nice reddit spacing you unbelievable faggot. your post is completely unreadable garbage; just a mish-mash of unconnected sentences. also, gj not watching the video and just ignoring all counter-evidence.

>>7950142
begging the question. you're assuming that a nation-state should exist

>>7950171
Im too lazy to quote as Im on mobile. It's easier for me to read, but now I'm on a desktop and are free to bombard you with walls of text.

Now address my points. (Also, new ID because i switched networks).

>>7950171
>you're assuming that a nation-state should exist

So you're saying it should not exist at all? So there's no reason for taxation and every man is for themselves. So we're back into the stone age and arguably even set back before hunter-gather villages.

Without collectivism we wouldn't have intellectuals, philosophers, and technology.

Good Boi here. I am seeing a lot of people without money service business licenses selling their digital property. Reminder that it is a federal crime to sell your game skins, loot crates, and ERC20 tokens without the proper licenses. As part of the KYC laws you must retain all the identities of the people you game and hang out online with. I'll be inspecting your PCs and Xboxes for unauthorized capital gains on special armor, high scores, and laundered Playstation bucks. If you are underage you will be taken out of school and you will be scanned. Using cryptocurrency without MSB licenses registered within the state you reside in I will report you, and and you will go to prison.

>>7949865
>>7949714

Buy $ANT and $HST

>>7950240
>Now address my points.
they've been addressed but you keep dancing, shifting goalposts, begging the question, and ignoring evidence. you're just another boring indoctrinated libtard commie bernie bro. try reading the arguments against you next time

>>7950272
>So there's no reason for taxation and every man is for themselves. So we're back into the stone age and arguably even set back before hunter-gather villages.
strawman. you don't need a gigantic nation-state
to organize your community. yet another logical fallacy by the commie. i'm done with this thread and with you.

>>7950272
go back to pol.

>>7950107
Do you restrict thw right to food and housing to one country, lets say usa, or do you plan to extend the 'revolution' abroad and force people in the usa, for example, to mandatory work to pay for housing and food in honduras? Honest question, as the answer to this determines whether youre a national socialist or a communist. Both had that 'mandatory labor' thingy youre advocating. One hint: it wasnt the party members and intellectuals slaving away in the mines to provide coal for heating (cuz thats part of housing and thus must be provided by forced labor, right?)

>>7950306
>indoctrinated libtard commie bernie bro
Can you stop shoehorning me into these labels and talk to me directly? I am adressing all your points but you always go back to labelling me with these snide adhominems. I am proposing an economic policy and not a political policy so all your claims of "damn commie and libtard marxists shit" out the window. My ideals align more with National Socialism and Isolationsim if we were to label it.

>>7950306
>gigantic nation-state

Okay so a small state. What is the role of a small state?

>>7945064
income tax is theft. i'm all for the IRS and income taxes being abolished and a national sales tax implemented as the replacement

reminder to sage and hide all Ancap and Leftypol posts

holy shit why do idiots keep responding?

>>7950324
Isolationist.

Feed our country first before we can help others.

>>7947067
>Sides Status: GONE

>>7950324
>party members and intellectuals slaving away in the mines to provide coal for heating (cuz thats part of housing and thus must be provided by forced labor, right?)

This is a matter of specialization. People can branch off from labour to more itellectual pursuits if they are capable.

Some men are only good with manual labour, others are more specialized in intellectual pursuits like science and techonology. I don't know what the politicians would do other than to sort of beauracratic problems but an AI should solve all of that and prevent corruption.

>>7950517
>an AI should solve all of that and prevent corruption.
WHAT. Hahahahahaha.

>>7950578
You unimaginative fool.

>politician pulls a Napoleon and hogs all the food
>AI overseein production and allocation detects Napoleon doing this
>AI makes it transparent and alerts outher council memebers
>Napoleon is booted from his position

Oversight, transparency, and accoutability; you know, things humans can be trusted with.

>>7950349
Political Policy
Kek

>>7950603
cant be* trusted with

>>7950603
maybe take a step back and learn about AIs before you go all cybersyn on our asses, stafford

>>7950517
The us is able.to provide food and housing just fine
Youre living in lala land thinking that the government could effectively allocate ressources to housing projects
Look at the quality of life in housing projects
Now imagine being forced by the government, at gunpoint, to build those tombs for your family
At gunpoint cuz there is no law without the threat of prison/violence
The moment you give government officials the power to force you to take a pickaxe and work in a mine is the moment you dig your nations grave. The cream rises to the top. Youll have a government full of people that love to put stamps on (((labour))) sentences

slightly related if anyone ever played starcraft or any rts with resource management it should be clear why the government needs to be ai controlled and not run by people. resource management / foresight takes a lot of practice, if you want it to be efficient (not necessarily perfect but the most efficient you can make it with given data), you write a script and make it play the game instead.

a script is interesting in that you know and see exactly what it's doing and if you don't like it you shut it down or tweak it until it cooks good. i guess you could say it's almost like some kind of "smart" agreement of sorts between the computer and you.

(really makes me think though, why are videogames so popular in korea, i was being a smartass but i just blew my own mind right here)

>>7947239

Underrated post

>>7947239
You forgot administration.

>>7950706

But job insecurity and being at the mercy of corporation's is any better?

If you work for the state, you get food and housing. How is that so hard to understand?

The whole point of capitalism is to either provide goods and services so you can get money so you can buy other foods and services. Or you work for someone who can provide those good and services so you buy things with your money.

I don't see why you would rather work for Corporate ends (with only the profit and not the people in mind) rather than the Nation State who has the interests of the people in mind?

We will always have people who are better than others, not everyone is equal right? And people contribute whatever they can to society as best as they can with their limitations and abilities.

I would rather work for the State knowing that the money will return to me and the collective, rather than to work for a corporation which only benefits the executives.

>>7947239
It pisses me off that debt could be washed away in seconds by throwing out the federal reserve bankers and instituting a new currency that the government actually issues and runs. Doesn't even need to be backed by gold or silver, and it would be a huge step away from acquiring currency already at a loss.

>>7950891
we all paid more in vat than we'll ever pay on these yearly taxes everyone's complaining about.

on the subject of government / privately owned,
govt is wasting money because every time something new appears that could generate wealth, like crypto, everybody's first thought is, how do i profit from it without govt taxing me? is there a loophole i can exploit? lootboxes flourished like that. Free internet "viral" marketting too due to the fact it's mostly untraceable, outsourced, and the sheer volume of data to scan is not feasible for a govt owned company, facebook on the other hand...? :thinking:
The governments are bound to lag behind these advances and the privately owned corporations will be the 1st to try and be a middle man offering regulation labour, in fact you always have to consult lawyers before trying to create a new business, it's common sense. corps have the mean to establish projections the 1st second the project idea is born because they see they could profit from it.
Some people's job is to just look at what kind of stuff could give the government more headaches, smart guys sweet talking the courts into delaying cases 5 more years so it gives their employers more time to suck the venue dry and hop onto the next "disruptive" tech.
First movers into disruptive new industries are often successful because they get to work outside the govt taxation framework and afterwards get friendly cuts from governments just from threatening to outsource the revenues they generate.

>>7947471
Ancap fags should be executed