/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>7899128
Bump.

>>7899128
amerifat here. i just hold and cashout and repeat the process. easy tracking and reporting.

>>7899128

>Brining up Randall Lord case

This is subtle FUD and you're a massive kike bootlicking faggot

>>7899416
This. You forgot to mention the reason they are going to jail is because they were selling drugs and had an unregistered exchange.

>>7899128
Everybody uses bitcoin.tax or cointracking.info in addition to a CPA.

That's only way.

>>7899416
>>7899433
Yes, his interview on YT did introduce some FUD. Wasn't aware of the drug selling and unregistered exchange though, will read more.

I have never been this happy before for being brazilian.
And bitcoin is 10-20% more expensive here, so more profit when i cash out.

Feels good man.

>>7899128
it's such a huge pain in the ass to sort this shit out correctly even with years of experience with excel, exchange .cdv files vary wildly in terms of comprehensiveness and quality. coinbase .csv exports are A FUCKING JOKE. use cointracking.info it is great but it still sucks ass and you will have to do a metric fuckton of manual corrections and entrys. coins sent between exchanges and wallets are a FUCKING PAIN IN THE ASS to track. if you have been on binance for 3+ months without exporting your trading info you are fucked. the reporting is so onerous that most people will not report... that's my conclusion. most shit for brains will be incapble of managing 6 open spreadsheets on multiple computer acreens.

>>7899492
Simple google search brings all of that up. Also they didnt report like 30k. Its not like they legally traded coins and reported it as best they could and still got fucked.
Until someone goes to jail for reporting fairly I aint worried.

>>7899128
>hello fellow goyim
>it's my understanding

So every trade is taxable but when do you pay? So if I bought bitcoin January 20th and kept trading bitcoin for eth or bitcoin for FUN or another coin. Now it's February 20th and I made 1000 trades. You have to keep track of each trade and loss/gains, but don't you have to pay taxes only when you cash out? You can tax people, but until they cash out from crypto to fiat, you should still be considered holding.

I'm just wondering if you have to pay this April or if you never cash out, you have to pay next year?

>>7899615
I’m just reporting my capital gains when I cash out as a courtesy. The IRS should be happy with that

>>7899128

i don't sell. easy as that. once you hold over 1 year the tax goes down to only 10-20% depending on income.. therefore i don't gamble and don't bother with shitcoins

>>7899692
>as a courtesy
All you're doing is painting a giant fucking target on your back. You'll be the first to get audited and fucked.

>>7899724
How much for less than 1 year holding in america?
Here is like 20-25% and drops to 15% after 1 year holding.

>>7899757
lol you afraid of the boogeyman?

>>7899667
The fucking state of newfags. You pay taxes from 2018 in 2019.

Just keep track of end investment minus initial investment. Then supply trades if IRS questions you. Cash out in dec, dont hold over into Jan and risk getting burned. You dont have to keep track of every trade like most people think. The math adds up the exact same if you do per trade or total like I said. Go ahead and do it yourself. End amount - starting amount. Just cash out before EOY. Start 2019 with a fresh stack investment.

I'm probably just going to keep it all hush hush (;

>>7899667
>You have to keep track of each trade and loss/gains,
Yes.
>but don't you have to pay taxes only when you cash out?
incorrect. each trade from ETC->BTC, ETC->LINK etc is a taxable event based on the current USD market value.

>>7899757
Honestly I'd be OK with that. Let them do all the work. The penalties would probably be less than hiring an accountant. He's going to be digging through some many trades to find any that make money.

>paying taxes on literal air

>>7899760
according to my cpa anywhere from 30-45%

don't pay these guys fuck all... we were a nation built on avoiding taxation of a tyrannical government. spend your crypto and avoid fiat, that's what will make this movement vrroom vrooom. fuck fiat and fuck these cucks for thinking they deserve a piece of anything.

>>7899876

also your cpa doesn't know dog shit about capital gains apparently. gotta remember 50% of these nerds graduated in the bottom half of the class. He sounds like one of em.

>>7899313
This. Daytrading complicates things. If you hold and cash out, it's easy to calculate your gains.

>>7899128
I paid federal and NY state income tax. Already received both incomes. I have not cashed out or bought anything with the crypto (though I did do crypto-for-crypto trades, which I consider like kind). I'm a relatively small fish (6k invested in 2017, roughly 15k in value now).

>>7899911
>I consider like kind
You appear to have not realized yet that your opinion doesn't matter.

>>7899911
*both tax returns, I mean.

>>7899128
You pay taxes on every stock trade too (offset by losses of course). My crypto taxes have been the same process.

>>7899667
Everything you bought or traded has a buy date and a sell date. Cost basis is calculated and you are taxed if you have gains after subtracting loses. Cashing out does not matter.

Use bitcoin.tax, import trades from all your exchanges via API (don't fuck about with csv files) the website then calculates your entire year and you can export a file to TurboTax.

Option B: Get audited at some point in the future and pay back taxes plus penalties, plus whatever other mistakes you may have made the last 7 years. Plus fed prison if you can't pay.

>>7899936
Actually, intent absolutely does matter if you are worried about getting charged with tax fraud. Best reading of the current law is like-kind. Also, I would be worried if I were a whale, but I'm not.

>>7899945
It makes absolutely no sense to tax crypto this way. No sense at all. And no matter how many times you folks post this, you don't actually have a sauce for why the IRS would handle it this way, vs. the entirely more intuitive method of treating crypto-for-crytpo trades as like kind and making the profit realization event buying something non-like-kind or cashing out. IRS knows that if they make paying taxes on crytpo next to impossible they will get fuck all from traders and the number of people they can actually go after will be negligible to the market at large.

>>7900022
All they're doing is taxing crypto trades the same way as stocks, more or less.

>>7899593
>I have never been this happy before for being brazilian.
What do you mean by this?
Don't you think the lion is eventually going to come hard at hue's cryptogains?

>>7900022
>you don't actually have a sauce

-7: What type of gain
or loss does a taxpayer realiz
e on the sale or exchange of
virtual currency?
A-7:
The character of the gain or loss
generally depends on whether the virtual
currency is a capital asset in the hands of
the taxpayer. A taxpay
er generally realizes
capital gain or loss on the sale
or exchange of virtual currency
that is a capital asset in
the hands of the taxpayer.
For example, stocks, bonds, and
other investment property
are generally capital assets. A taxpayer generally realiz
es ordinary gain or loss on the
sale or exchange of virtual currency that is
not a capital asset in the hands of the
taxpayer. Inventory and other property held main
ly for sale to customers in a trade or
4
business are examples of property that is not
a capital asset. See Publication 544 for
more information about capital assets and the character of gain or loss.

www irs gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

>>7900036
And stoc.k-for-stock trades are considered like-kind. The taxable event is cashing out or trading for a non-like-kind asset/investment.

Feels good to be in the Netherlands. Almost no tax.

Burgers have no way out. IRS will hunt them and destroy them. Fcking KEK if you want too evade tax in US.

YOU WILL GET FUKT. Algorithms are too strong, they will track you the fuk down.

Only choice for burgers is Puerto Rico.

>>7900120
>A taxpayer generally realizes ordinary gain or loss on the sale or exchange of virtual currency that is not a capital asset in the hands of the taxpayer.
Both this quote and the bitcoin.tax site you referenced support my position, not yours. exchanging Crypto A for Crypto B is not a realization event under exactly the language you quoted here. It's the exchange of one capital asset for another. Crypto B is no more "inventory or other property held mainly for sale to customers in a trade or business" than Crypto A.

> Buy crypto in small amounts with legit account
> transfer to alias account or wallet

Sorry mr taxman i didn't report the crypto because i bought drugs with it on the dark web. Why is that so hard. They aren't the dea

>>7900120
>Tax is potentially due when a tax event occurs. For Bitcoin, this is whenever they are converted into fiat currency (e.g. US Dollars) or equivalent. This includes selling on an exchange, selling to another person, or buying goods or services.
from bitcoin.tax

>>7900122
No they are not dumb fuck. Try trading your apple stock for Google stock. Of course you pay tax on your profit from when you first bought apple to the point you traded for google.

Otherwise you could just cash out of Google 1 second after buying it and claim you had zero gain, while hiding your apple gain in muh "like kind" trade.

How does the use of something like Binance coin to pay a trading fee factor into this? Doesn't the value of BNB fluctuate relative to the coin you are trading? So the value you are realizing from the use of BNB could go up? Do you pay tax on that?

>>7900231
>What about if I bought some Ethereum or Litecoin? Potentially another tax event. Think of it as selling Bitcoins back to cash, then buying your other coins with that. That sale might have gains, and so is treated the same way.

from bitcoin.tax

>>7900335
Seriously BNB makes things even messier. If I didn’t do KYC with Binance, how the fuck can the IRS prove that the Binance wallet I sent my money to belongs to me? Even if the IRS demanded that Binance complied, they probably don’t give a fuck about the IRS

>>7900231
>selling on an exchange
So if you trade (sell) the BTC on an exchange for another crypto, that's a taxable event.

we’re absolutely fucked arent we

crypto is really just a scam to put clueless NEETs like us into the prison-industrial complex isn’t it

Which is better: bitcoin.tax or cointracking? Both seem pretty unreliable. Also, is there any way to get cointracking to show in $?

>>7900419
I would love to see how one of these bootlicking cucks answers the BNB question.
According to their warped interpretation of tax law the use of BNB or any other exchange coin is a taxable event.

>>7900603
Probably. I'm not looking for ways to screw the government (even though taxation is theft), just looking for ways to "do it right" to avoid prison and audits if at all possible.

>>7899945
Good info. For the entire year? Just started buying in middle of January. Only a few hundred bucks. That's it. Lost like $200. 500 or more crypto to crypto trades.

So two guys will pop in on this thread and start suggesting tax software and telling you that if you don't pay you go to jail. Lets see how this thread plays out.

>>7899945
Does bitcoin.tax provide the USD market value for the currencies at the time of the trade?

>>7899128
I think you also have the option of filing with a zero cost option.

>>7899128
I'm a developer so I built a system to do it for me. I enter the trades into a front end, it calculates cost basis in USD, export to accounting software, export to tax software, wa-la.

no it won't share it.

>>7900335
Also. If the value of BNB goes down and I use it to make a trade can I claim it as a loss?

>>7899128
Nobody is keeping track you pajeet

>>7900236
> No they are not dumb fuck. Try trading your apple stock for Google stock. Of course you pay tax on your profit from when you first bought apple to the point you traded for google.

This guy is the first one. suggested Bitcoin.tax and is spreading misinformation.

So the reason why you pay taxes on stock is that you have to cash out between each trade when it comes to stocks. With digital goods that never happens and also cannot be allowed to happen. Its an overstep on the part of the IRS because applying lays that work for physical goods vs digital goods is impossible. Digital and physical goods don't work the same way and dont have the same attributes.

The ol daily tax fud from nocoiners and the neets that believe it

>>7900110
That is true, you are right.
But until there, i will make money for my retirement

>>7900603
>crypto is really just a scam to put clueless NEETs like us into the prison-industrial complex isn’t it

Paying taxes on digital goods IS absolutely a scam. Its old people attempting to apply logic they know from their world to the new world.

>>7900990
it's the litmus test for identifying poor people basically

>>7900919
What about the "dust" on Binance. Got like 10 coins I can't get rid of. Like .00040000. Binance won't let you trade every coin to BNB. This whole thing is fucked for real.

Majority of people are trading one coin for another god who knows how many times a day. Not many people report anything. Good luck to the IRS in auditing millions of people for this. From what I've seen, they go after large amounts of money. You don't make much off little guys. The big money comes from the dolphins and whales.

>>7900879
Yes. Just try it with your 2017 data. It's free up to the first 200 or 2000 trades, I can't remember which. But I did my 2017 for free since I mostly hold and only had a handful or eth to alt purchases.

>>7901041
they will spend the first few years going after the high earners, then once they have it automated they will come for everyone else

>>7900903
sell it! youll make so much money!!

>>7901013
shouldn't be too hard to erase the trail from them anyways

>>7899757
You are such a pathetic pussy. Kys.

>>7899128
This whole thing is stupid, most of you are panicking for no reason.

They are not going to come after every brainlet with 0.000005 BTC. The only people they are concerned with are the whales holding hundreds to millions in coins. It will cost them more time and money searching for all of you small fry than it would to just leave you alone. Same for the idiots that use torrents.

In this case, so long as most of you sprinkle your earnings out over multiple fiat deposits they won't say a thing. But if your dumbass dumps $100,000 In your account at once you can expect some irs faggot to be at your door because the gubment wants their $20,000 off the top.

>>7901106
I make enough money and have no desire to make it compatible with other peoples systems or provide support/bug fixes

>>7900829
>I predict two guys will say two things that are true.

Tax software is the only way to calculate the cost basis because it pulls up the dollar value of the coins at time of trade from API's. And yes, if you don't pay your taxes you can go to jail.

>>7901072
>>7900879
DO NOT UPLOAD ANYTHING TO A TRACKING/TAX WEBSITE!

>>7900979
I'm not saying it isn't bullshit. Because it is complete bullshit that the IRS handles trades this way. But I understand the laws, and don't want to go through an audit over monopoly money.

Do whatever you want I don't care.

>>7901128
well make it compatible for one system only. or can you send me over the code?

>>7901013
> That is true, you are right.
> But until there, i will make money for my retirement

They cant though. Barack Obama himself said they couldn't do anything about Bitcoin while he was president. Its basically a Kaimon island for every citizen.

They cant do anything even when they have software to look at the entire blockchain. And even when they catch people more than half the time it wont result in them obtaining the wallets.

They are helpless and flailing about on 4chan.

>>7901124
what you're forgetting is you have to maintain a history of good records if you plan on making it some day. I started in 2013 and have followed the letter of the tax law since then even though I was losing a few thousand every year. now I have hundreds of thousands in crypto and have perfect records going all the way back. if you just ignore the problem until you get rich, you're gonna hate your life.

>>7901128
another question , how did you learn to code?

>>7900979
>Digital and physical goods don't work the same way and dont have the same attributes.

Your opinion is not the one that matters. Your opinion, is not the thing that decides if our asses get aquatinted with Tyrone in jail or not. In the eyes of the IRS "virtual currency" is classified under PROPERTY. And falls under the same rules as all physical property.

>>7901185
no but it's simple as using scripts to pull price tickers from exchange APIs and putting the data into a SQL database. then an entry form to enter price/amounts/dates and do the USD conversions from BTC/ETH/etc if it's crypto to crypto. another script to export that data, another script to export that. not very difficult if you know how to manage data and write scripts.

>>7901129
>Tax software is the only way to calculate the cost basis because it pulls up the dollar value of the coins at time of trade from API's. And yes, if you don't pay your taxes you can go to jail.

Yeah but its the same two guys and they want you to buy their software. This entire thing has been a shilling campaign for awhile now. The IRS doesn't come here its companies selling tax software. The more spooked you get the more they sell.

>>7901124
Do iRS ppl really come to people's doors? Like show up in person? I find that very stupid on the part of the irs. That is like saying cops will go door to door for gun confiscation. I dont see it happening.

>>7901216
some college but mostly on the job, I work in data and analytics

>>7899128
Literally all I did was copy and paste my trade history into an excel sheet and send it to my accountant and had to pay an extra $50 to process. Why is everyone acting like this is so fucking hard or devastating?

>>7901267
There's literally only two or three one's on the market that are up to the job.

>>7901301
because try tracking half-filled orders from DEXes like EtherDelta and shithole exchanges like Bitgrail, accounting for ICOs we probably weren’t supposed to buy into, cross-exchange arbitrage, etc

it’s a fuckinng nightmare and we are absolutely FUCKED

>>7901248
how can i learn this?

>>7901163
>I'm not saying it isn't bullshit. Because it is complete bullshit that the IRS handles trades this way. But I understand the laws, and don't want to go through an audit over monopoly money.
>Do whatever you want I don't care.

Its not possible to do. And it also sets a very dark precedent for the future of digital goods in general. I know a lot of you people want to believe that this stops at crypto but in reality it will spread to ALL digital goods.

You wont even be able to play a video game without having to pay taxes on your digital goods. Mark my fucking words. If this is allowed to happen you will owe capital gains for anything that is perceived as valued.

>>7901208
>if you just ignore the problem until you get rich, you're gonna hate your life.
this

>>7901301
because a lot of people have thousands of trades for shitcoins that don't have fiat markets. 10 coinbase trades are not very difficult, 1000 etherdelta/kucoin/binance trades are a whole different ballpark and your account would have told you to fuck off.

>>7901267
>>7901312

So if you already decided in your mind that it's a shilling campaign, you're going to see evidence that supports your belief.

>>7901350
I had over 600 trades on binance...

this chad sounds like he knows what he is talking about: crypto to crypto is taxable

>>7901328
go to school for data science

>>7901291
The IRS has armed agents. Yes. Look it up.

>>7901381
https://youtu.be/zo3qXtphV8Y
the link i forgot to include

>>7901370
you better check his work then. I do all the calculations myself which is why I don't trust random accountants with it, it's a pretty terrible process because you need to consistently apply how you calculate USD values and can't cherry pick prices to minimize your tax exposure. I wouldn't trust anyone who charged me $50 for that.

>>7901220
> Your opinion is not the one that matters.

Objective fact is not my opinion. Its my opinion that this objective fact is important to this discussion.

Alright I think this is guy number 2. Its like clock work.

> Your opinion, is not the thing that decides if our asses get aquatinted with Tyrone in jail

God you even say the same shit every fucking time. Its not "our asses" you are a no coiner and you admitted it last time. One of you two is the lead shill on this. This is annoying as fuck.

Last time it was like "I hate to see anons losing money" or some shit.

Anons, is their any fucking way we can pinpoint if these threads are the same 2 / 3 guys? Because I fucking swear it is.

>>7901451
I know who you are. I've seen you in 2 or 3 threads saying inaccurate shit.

>>7901451
You say the same shit every time too because you believe that's true. I say the same shit every time because I think what I'm saying is true.

>>7901351
>So if you already decided in your mind that it's a shilling campaign, you're going to see evidence that supports your belief.

I jump in on pretty much every one of these threads as its helped me learn the arguments of the topic a lot more. And I can very safely say I feel like I am arguing with the same 2 guys each time. Maybe its my imagination maybe its not. But its more than a gut feeling anymore.

I don't know if its IRS or if its tax software shills. But its like I am talking to the same two people every damn time.

>>7901451
what do you think of what that CPA/account type was saying in that video? qualified intermediaries and such... >>7901405

>>7901475
See he says he knows who I am.

Mods / anons, is there something about this? This is really fucking weird. The difference between me and these 2 idiots is that I show up to have discussion. While these guys make fake threads and fucking larp as anons.

>>7901543
Paying tax on crypto is not a real thing.
Has anyone ever posted proof that they have actually paid taxes on crypto gains?

>>7901577

Mike Novogratz paid taxes. Also didn't Roger Ver pay back taxes when he came back to the US to give a talk?

I am not clicking shit anymore. I am fucking done with this. These threads are dangerous and these guys can be IRS or shareblue who fucking knows.

But its beyond obvious as fuck at this point.

>>7900603
Just live in a country of tax evaders, I could probably set up a meeting and get hard cash for my shitcoins in a day

>>7899128
I don’t have any debts on me I’m fine I’ll just keep trading until I hit major and file my taxes appropriately.

>>7901563
I know who you are because I frequently browse 4chan and you're easily recognizable.

The thread is usually about what the IRS's policy is. Then you come in and say "NO! It objectively CAN'T work this way because slippery slope! World of warcraft money!" Even though it objectively does work that way under the law.

>>7901601
Proof?

>>7901208
What you're forgetting is that the IRS is made up of human components. Do you honestly think they're going to have any way to verify the 1000 trades you made last week and the 100 you made in the last 5 hours? Especially the ones made on Binance and the other chink third-party markets?

Nope, and they aren't going to waste money to verify it. If you have to tell them anything, you tell them you made 1 trade here and 2 there. So long as you don't give them anything that contradicts your statement they have to go with it.

>>7901526
So how do you handle your taxes if software is out? Simple taxes with a W-2, some interest bearing accounts and a few deductions is unnecessarily complicated as it is. Even with the help of software takes me 2 hours to finish that shit. Can't imagine having to deal with 2,000 or more crypto trades throughout the course of a year on top of it.

>>7901634
>"NO! It objectively CAN'T work this way because slippery slope! World of warcraft money!"

But I am right, that's the problem. The IRS can so unicorns exist. It doesnt change the fact that you cannot apply the same logic of digital goods to real world goods.

Both because its impossible to enforce and because digital goods move around way fucking more often and have far more random use cases. These are objective truths about digital goods.

That's my fucking argument and has always been my argument. If they set this precedent then its basically a fuck anyone they want free card. Because its impossible to maintain.

>>7901656
yep pretty much doing this and paying on a zero cost basis to overpay a couple % so they are really dissuaded to fuck with me

>>7901124
you play good goy now so that in 3 years when you have x1000 you can avoid the late fees, imprisonment, and general hassle

>>7901656
>Nope, and they aren't going to waste money to verify it.
You honestly believe government bureaucrats give a shit about "wasting" money? You really believe you're immune because binance? Are you not aware of the Snowden revelations?

>>7901771
Better not attempt to run for office. Better not say anything publicly that might suddenly make them interested in your past. Better get ready to be blackmailed indefinitely.

>>7901777
>Are you not aware of the Snowden revelations?
Haha this one again.
They could not even stop the Florida shooting after the guy posted his intentions on a public forum and having it reported!
You really think they can get you for crypto gains?

>>7901812
They have all the blackmail material they need now. What are you going on about?

>>7901754
What do you mean they cannot? They ARE. THEY ARE APPLYING THE SAME LOGIC. They're literally winning in court to make exchanges hand over trade histories. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're not doing it.

>>7901812
what does that have to do with paying your taxes?

>>7899481
This. My brother is a cpa. We worked the whole buy high sell low thing and essentially it’s an amazing opportunity to “lose” money while gaining coins and then locking those away for a year for long term capital gains. Get a massive write off combined with massive potential for gains. Did this with req and link and am just sitting comfy waiting a year

>>7901828
Yea you're right. Nobody has ever gone to jail over tax evasion/fraud.

>>7901836
> They have all the blackmail material they need now. What are you going on about?

>>7901839
> What do you mean they cannot? They ARE. THEY ARE APPLYING THE SAME LOGIC. They're literally winning in court to make exchanges hand over trade histories. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they're not doing it.

Well, the digital currency taking over the world meme comes to a close then. This is how they control crypto. By blackmailing.

/thread

>>7899786
hence the January dip every year. Or you could just trade on a foreign exchange and not report your trades to the IRS.

>>7899795
True but you don’t really have to pay the eth to link purchase. It’s essentially a zero gain zero loss situation because when you buy it’s the same price at that moment.

>>7901867
Anon is suggesting if you hand over crypto transaction history and or wallet info they could somehow use it to blackmail you if you were to run for office. That's my interpretation anyway.

>>7899903
Lol 40%. I didn’t know university of Phoenix had accounting

>>7901907
>Nobody has ever gone to jail over tax evasion/fraud.
Did I say that? Why are you trying to bring this false equivalency into the discussion? People going to jail in the past for fiat tax evasion has nothing to do with the supposed power and effectiveness of the NSA revealed by Snowden.

>>7901943
> That's my interpretation anyway.

Digital goods are different than physical goods > Its not really possible to actually pay taxes on digital goods > since its not really possible they have a fuck anyone they want free card.

>>7902058
> People going to jail in the past for fiat tax evasion has nothing to do with the supposed power and effectiveness of the NSA revealed by Snowden.

Oh ok. "William Binney, one of the architects of the National Security Agency’s eavesdropping technology told a radio host today the Internal Revenue Service, or IRS, has “direct access” to the NSA’s domestic spying data and was likely using it to target the tea party."

Whether you like it or not the IRS and NSA are working together. Binance is not some kind of safe haven.

>>7899128
>Also, what's the story with Randall Lord? Dude was sentenced to 40+ months in federal fuck you in the ass prison for trading bitcoin. Claimed he had lawyers and CPAs working for him but the judge made an example out of him anyway, despite paying his taxes.
was that one of the 100 people that gave themselves up for crypto taxes? kek

You're all retarded. The very nature of most cryptos is that they're untraceable. Send your legit shit coins to an alias wallet. Make up whatever you want to say if you get audited. They have absolutely no way of tracing it you dumb fucks. Tell them you used the coins to buy boipucci porn. Because you probably did anyway faggots

>>7902126
>Digital goods are different than physical goods > Its not really possible to actually pay taxes on digital goods > since its not really possible they have a fuck anyone they want free card

Ok, so do software companies pay no taxes for selling their digital software?

>>7901828
This.
>>7901828
Do you know how much people pirate and how many never get in trouble for It? Now imagine millions more people doing that far more often and it's completely legal, now imagine having to track every single torrent these people download and how large those downloads are and what percent of that download belongs to the gubment.

Now you have 100 agents at your disposal, each cost you $20/hr and it's a 9-5 job. Who are you going to go after (excluding the host making the torrents you weeb)? The 1TB downloads that leave a huge trail or the 5Kb downloads that are hard to track?

>>7902189
>IRS and NSA are working together
Haha this one again.
They could not even stop the Florida shooting after the guy posted his intentions on a public forum and having it reported!
You really think they can get you for crypto gains?

>>7902269
Anon hasn't taken the jew pill. Jews will literally take your house and throw you in prison over a few shekels.

Every fucking week the same IRS SHILLS sprinkle their carefully "worried" and "you'll go to jail" FUD on biz...it is the same 2 people who are getting paid, I hope, like $10 an hour to browse here and shill shill shill..

The whole purpose of bitcoin was to be disconnected from government, an anonymous currency to exchange value...and yet all of you are reaaally looking forward to let daddy goverment in.

There's dozens of ways of cashing out such as sprinkling your gains through different accounts, etc...some have been talked about here.

Open your fucking eyes people. FOG, fear, obligation and guilt...the tactics they use an all of you are too easy to point out. Wake up.

>>7902269
> You really think they can get you for crypto gains?
Yes. I'd rather do it right now than have to deal with it 10 years from now facing fines, penalties, interest, and potential jail times. Al Capone was put in jail for tax evasion, not all the other shit he did. Not worth the risk.

>>7902315
Oh I see. They let the kid shoot up the school because it would result in more dead goy. Makes sense now.

>>7899786
>what is a pay-as-you-go system
>what are quarterly estimated tax payments (which can apply)
kys retard.

>>7902126
Waiting for you answer... silicon valley pays no taxes at all right? Google pays no taxes, facebook pays no taxes, because all they're selling is digital stuff. Wait that just completely wrecked your argument.

>>7902343
> The whole purpose of bitcoin was to be disconnected from government, an anonymous currency to exchange value..
Yea I get that and support the idea. But how the fuck am I supposed to pay off my mortgage with crypto without the government getting involved?

>>7902244
>Ok, so do software companies pay no taxes for selling their digital software?

No they don't. They pay taxes on profits. The actual trade itself is not taxed. People who use the software don't pay taxes either.

They only pay when they cash out. Up until now nobody has had to even consider the implications that software companies will have to pay taxes for trading digital goods that they themselves created within their on projects.

So going by the new rules. Its actually going to be something software companies will have to look into. For example if you use software that offers a currency within that application that allows its users to trade for goods and services within that application. We will have to start taking into account those transactions based on the USD value of that currency.

So up until we have only paid taxes on profits. But that is changing I guess.

>>7901656
they don't care about cryptos or blockchain. they only care about collection USD valued tax on property sales. the burden of proof is on you. if you can't prove cost basis, you'll pay full tax.

>buy one of coin a for 100 usd

>immediately trade for two of coin b

>trade your two b for two a when b is worth 100 (100 usd realized profit)

>sell a for usd when a is worth 200 (100 realized)

Total realized profit is 200 whether you count each trade or just when you cash out to usd

So at the end of the year instead of being a little bitch and whining about it you cash out enough to cover your capital gains. Or take profits along the way. Or hold for more than one year. Or, and this is best practice, a combination of these.

Ezpz

>>7902397
I responded. Took a bit.

>>7902352

>al capone

You're fucking kidding right? These are the kind of FUD posts that make me lmao. "Potential jail times"......IT'S A FUCKING ANONYMOUS CURRENCY HOW WILL THEY TRACK YOUR GAINS UNLESS YOU WILLINGLY REPORT THEM GOY.

Ps. you're not al capone you're a faggot with 0.000001 btc and 5k on TRX and XRP

The point of cryptocurrency is to be more than just an exchange of an asset. They shouldn't just be shares. We're expected to believe we use one crypto to buy another to use it for a service on the blockchain. I think you can keep a lot of the coins based on if they have their own little use. In the future, we're gonna have a few coins that will strictly be just digital currency coins. BTC, LTC, ETH, Nano, XLM. Fiat to one of those to another coin to use that service built on that coin. Buy ETH to buy REQ to buy a shirt off Amazon if they partnered. Lot of to work out and crypto in general needs some reshaping so it's stable and also prevent people from losing their money. Blockchain insurance. If you send your btc to the wrong address. It retraces and knows it was a mistake and cancels the exchange.

This is serious shit with people losing their minds over it. Nothing is really safe right now even in the stock market. Recession was pushed off.

>>7902519
The Al Capone meme comes up sometimes. Its pretty funny.

What if I wanted to pay my taxes, but I'd rather it look like one long hodl instead of 100 trades so I can have it count as capital gains tax instead of income tax? Would Monero Shapeshift work?

>>7902519
Doesn't matter if I report or not. Here's an example:
"The Internal Revenue Service agents did not accuse Ms. Hinders of money laundering or cheating on her taxes — in fact, she has not been charged with any crime. Instead, the money was seized solely because she had deposited less than $10,000 at a time, which they viewed as an attempt to avoid triggering a required government report."

Lady makes small cash deposits from her restaurant and had her shit seized. "making deposits under $10,000 to evade reporting requirements, called structuring, is still a crime whether the money is from legal or illegal sources."

www.nytimes com/2014/10/26/us/law-lets-irs-seize-accounts-on-suspicion-no-crime-required.html

>>7902641
Yes, because honestly for the people that work at the IRS it means less paperwork.

>>7902403
Do you believe there should be a tax for crypto to good or service?

What would we the implications of them not taxing crypto to crypto or crypto to software or crypto to service / good. There would be a secondary economy that would emerge that runs parallel to the fiat system that bypasses taxation. You're expecting them to not institute a rule that would lead to the destruction of the entire government / taxation / fiat system if not in place.

>>7899128
I'm only buying now and trade cryptos, don't sell anything for fiat yet. When the right times come I'll dump some bags and leave the country.

>>7902687
Fuck yeah, I love me a good win-win. Can't believe people don't post more threads on how to do this and just post threads on how to avoid taxation completely. Like, why stay on the run from the IRS all your life after you make it. Meet them halfway and enjoy your life.

>>7900686
>taxation is theft
are you retarded or are you 13

>>7902641
That would be tax fraud.

>>7902802
Obviously. If I were to do it straight, I wouldn't have even asked my original question to begin with. But paying your taxes definitely makes you less suspicious than the other crypto traders trying to completely dodge them. Does anyone actually understand to what extent Monero and Shapeshift cover your ass?

>>7902690
> Do you believe there should be a tax for crypto to good or service?

I believe in consistency. So yeah if crypto is taxed this way why not apply that logic to everything. I mean it makes sense doesn't it? I don't think this is going away. Otherwise anyone can make a tax haven that isn't technically crypto.

I have argued many many times that technology is going to advance around this and that what we will see is people finding loopholes. Eventually the IRS closes those loopholes. We find more loopholes. IRS closes those.

And yeah the end result will be all digital goods will be taxed. Its really not a complicated argument.

> What would we the implications of them not taxing crypto to crypto or crypto to software or crypto to service / good. There would be a secondary economy that would emerge that runs parallel to the fiat system that bypasses taxation. You're expecting them to not institute a rule that would lead to the destruction of the entire government / taxation / fiat system if not in place.

You can tax crypto to crypto but you have to do it differently. The current method is super imposing an old system to a new concept. That is where the problems begin. Taxation of crypto should work differently.

You have to tax digital goods with other digital goods. This can happen in real time even. No paper work needed. I can name countless examples where taxation of digital goods would work perfectly well.

But I cannot think of one example in the history of man kind where super imposing a system made to do something else worked well over top of newer system.

Taxation of digital goods has to be done with digital goods. Period. You cannot do it any other way.

>>7902873
It depends on where you got your original coins from. If you got them from coinbase and then to your wallet and then to shapeshift, that's transparently visible to them on the blockchain.

>>7902787
theft: taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it
steal: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice. to take away by force or unjust means. to take surreptitiously or without permission.

How is it not theft? redpill me.

>>7902913
Hmm. What if the original coins from Coinbase went to exchanges that I didn't KYC with or DEXs and then to Shapeshift with Monero? The IRS would probably just have to take your word for it.

>>7902983
Possibly. So you'd choose a coin that increased sufficiently in that time period to cover your gains? Did monero increase enough?

>>7902673

1 poor little lady fucked up and got caught. Now we all should report every single crypto trade like good goys, right?

Reminder that for 2017 gifts under $14,000 are non-taxable and it goes up to $15,000 for the 2018 tax period. Surely you share your address with many people and are a kind, deserving soul :^)

>>7902983
You could also claim some gains as a gift from a friend you made. I have a friend in Canada that sends me crypto all the time

>>7899128
New tax code? Its been the same since 2014...

>>7903132
Lol don’t make it this easy

>>7903126
That was 1 example. There were 638 other seizures that year (2012) for similar activity. Report every single crypto trade like good goys because it's the law, not because "1 poor little lady fucked up and got caught". There are consequences if you break the law - why is that so hard for degenerates to understand?

>>7899128
Binance.

If every exchange and wallet was designed to automatically deduct from your earnings we wouldn't even need to have this conversation. If fact they would even be able to spit out a tax return.

>>7902787
DO YOU SUPPORT THE USE OF FORCE AGAINST ME?

>>7903157
Yes new tax code. Prior to the recent "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" they were treated as "like-kind exchanges." That is not longer the case.

>>7903092
Yeah, that's the final hurdle. Shapeshift supports a handful of alts, so I could fudge around with those.
>>7903143
Maybe start with a few "gifts" from different "friends" and shapeshift those?

>>7903292
The more you try to hide the more they want to find. Hide in the open.

Some of you don't seem to understand. Your profit is the same whether you are taxed on each trade, or just keep track of the difference for the whole year. As far as I can tell, the it's just wants your trade history so they know you're not lying to them.

I’m sure the IRS will subpoena binance to release all my trade information on an unverified account, right?

>>7899884
Actually, the Boston Tea Party wasn't about taxes being too high; it was about the repeal of the tax, which would lower the price of tea. This would have bankrupted John Hancock's tea smuggling operation, so he got his gang to dress up as natives and raid the royal ships. He was basically an 18th century Al Capone.

>>7903328
While I agree with that statement, the real question is how far can they go? The IRS is very powerful, but how much can they do between overseas exchanges with no KYC requirements, DEXs, and shapeshift? That's almost an insurmountable task to trace that kind of paper trail. How would you go about hiding in the open? Just the "friends sending you coins" technique?
>>7903389
That's what I'm saying. Like Binance would comply with them? And how do you subpoena a DEX? I don't doubt the power of the IRS, but there seems to be some technological barriers that they probably wouldn't be able to overcome.

>>7901187
>request records from every citizen from said country on every exchange in the world
>send tax bill to citizens who have taxable gains but didn't pay yet

Here's the bottom line for anyone not wanting to end up as tyrone's bunk mate:

"It is important to realize that the act of selling by trading is a taxable event, not when you transfer USD in or out of an exchange. Therefore you are required to keep records of all your trades as well as their initial cost, sale amount and fees. This, of course, is where it can gets complicated, especially if you have been playing the market and have numerous trades, as you would report the gains made for each individual trade. The total gains and losses from all of your Bitcoin sells over the year will be accumulated and becomes your capital gain. This is then taxed appropriately."

>>7903488
Read further into the thread I explain things better.

>>7903373

This and you need the trades to prove where you got the money from or you WILL be taxed at a zero cost basis.

>>7903542
Zero cost is a pretty good deal though.

>>7903568

But you would be paying more in taxes

>>7903161
In reality I have no gains to even tax but yeah this new frontier is open to much more creative ways of reporting earnings.

https://horizonstate.com/

[ ] - I <3 everything centralized/I'm a bootlicker/my IQ is probably in the double digits
[ ] - ban the IRS, government, and banking not on Blockchain

wow. it's. really. that. easy.

>>7903469
Not saying I do this, but if it decentralized how would they know what really happened. Also I’ve heard of someone having a shit coin sending it to an unverified account that has some activity on it selling the shit coin to eth then sending that eth to a wallet you control then to your wallet you intend on claiming as yours (if this makes sense). Do you by chance have a ledger nano?

reminder to sage and hide these 3rd party organization threads

>>7902259
it's a public ledger you autist, it's not that hard to track through. in fact it can be automated quite easily.

>>7903596
Most people are going to pay more than they have. The market has dropped more than 70% from the ATH if you account for alt coins.

Unless there is a massive bull run then most US citizens are in deep shit right now.

I bought in a sizeable amount through GDAX in January 2017. Over the first 6 months of the year I did a shit ton of trading on Polo, Bittrex, Kraken, and a few others. I also participated in a couple ICOs.

I cashed out a relatively small amount through GDAX and sent money to the bank (less than $50k). I imported all my trading transactions through Bitcoin.tax (I paid for the premium service - it was like $20), and then went through and manually added my ICO contributions and a few other things that had a $0 cost basis to make sure it all made sense.

I handed my CPA the bitcoin.tax report and he handled the rest. My CPA cost me roughly $200.


Doing this very minimal amount of work saved me a fuck ton of anxiety and stress in terms of the IRS coming and trying to fuck me out of my money. This was basically free for me in the first place, I'd much rather just pay the fucking government their 30pct or whatever and be done with it.

My CPA was very easy to work with and had no qualms looking through my bitcoin.tax reports.

God speed anons. We're all going to make it.

>>7903679
Is that bitcoin tax thing pretty good?

>>7903614
On backorder for one. Hopefully will have one next week. So in your example, the unverified account on a foreign exchange is sufficient to muddle the paper trail?

>>7903679
>We're all going to make it.

Most anons owe more than they made as of now and the dip isn't even over yet.

>>7903679
Great post. Thanks for that. Was this for your most recent (2017) filing?

>>7903730
More than enough but if you wanted to you could do the whole shapeshift to one of the addresses back to one of the four, back to the exchange, then eth to you friends wallet into your wallet (this is if you’re really paranoid) You get 4 addresses to use with the nano

>>7903679
Ignore this: >>7903789 Just noticed you "bought in a sizeable amount through GDAX in January 2017"

>>7903716

It works but it's not perfect. The biggest downfall is margin trading data is interpreted completely incorrectly.
I think I'm going to switch to cointracking for next year and see if it helps. I've also begun manually tracking margin shorts / longs just in-case.

For this year's taxes I had to basically manually calculate gains through margin trades on Polo and ended up paying much more than I probably could have as a result.

>>7903740

I understand your point here and this is why anons who are trading in countries where the tax law works the same way need to be setting aside parts of their gains in fiat to pay the tax man at the end of the year. Same thing happens to people trading stocks in non-qualified accounts. It's basically free money - just don't be a fucking brainlet and you'll be fine.

>>7903657
>Most people are going to pay more than they have.

Yep, because of it peaking in December and crashing in January. If I were in that situation I'd cash out what I have, have my accountant report what I have as a 0 cost basis sell. Start the clock ticking on statute of limitations and hope it blows over.

>>7903789

Yes. I sat down with CPA first week in Feb. and I'm already settled up.

>>7903817

How does that make anything I say irrelevant?
You do understand that the taxation is the same for all of us in USA, right?

>>7903644
>implying
So are torrents you autist. It's not hard to track who is doing what, ever heard of people getting warnings from their ISP to stop using torrents?

You're still missing the point. What's easy for you and me is not the same as what's easy for some guy that just works for the government.

Get the cock out your mouth think before you choke

>>7903820
Got a link to cointracker. Was going to sit down tonight and work through all my trades so far this year

>>7903817

Sizeable to me may not the be sizeable to you. It's all relative.

For the sake of specifics, my original investment was around $15k, broken up into $2-3k buys over a three month period.

>>7903847
Yea, I was trying to say ignore my question about what year you filed. Wasn't sure if you were talking about previous years or this most recent filing until I noticed you said you purchased a sizeable amount through GDAX in 2017 - if that makes any sense. Either way, thanks for sharing the process, cleared up a lot and removed some of the FUD associated with crypto/taxes for me.

>>7903809
Solid, thank anon. I'll try to refine my cash out strategy a little more. Might post a thread about it for critiques when the time comes. But I'll definitely utilize this information. Whatever gets my gains into the cap gains category and not the income tax category with the least amount of suspicion is the play for me; no matter how convoluted the plan or how paranoid I have to be lol

>>7903924
SOunds good. Good luck to you man

>>7903679
Did your CPA say anything about FIFO vs. LIFO. My taxes are ridiculously high on FIFO and much lower on LIFO. I literally had to go out of state to find an accountant who was willing to use methods other than FIFO.

>>7903898

Here's the link-
https://cointracking.info/
Haven't set up an account yet but I've heard good things.

I'm posting so much here because I've learned a lot from posters on this board over the past 14 months and want to give other anons some piece of mind. If you make a concerted effort to pay the taxes as they are owed, you're going to be fine.

I asked my CPA how "fucked" my situation was relative to other clients and he told me some horror stories about people with hundreds of bitcoin that have no proof of origin and haven't claimed any taxes despite being in their possession for years. And even in those cases he felt very confident each client would end up 'perfectly fine' as this is the wild west and each of them are now demonstrating good faith in trying to settle up.

>>7903965

YES!

Amazing question and I feel stupid for not providing clarity on that beforehand.

When I went into my CPAs office I had printed the 'completed' IRS form 8949 with all of my trades on it. I ran the report 3 ways -- LIFO, FIFO, and AVG Cost. The AVG Cost actually ended up with my lowest taxable amount, FIFO the highest, and LIFO somewhere in between. Thinking that I would absolutely have to file FIFO, I handed that to him first. He then asked me, "are you sure you don't want to file average cost or some other accounting method that benefits you more right now?"

My follow-up to him was - "are you sure I can do that? I really don't want to stick my neck out at the risk of getting audited to save some money on the taxes."

His response was, with full confidence, "average cost is perfectly fine and won't be more or less sketchy than FIFO".

So I filed with Average Cost and saved a decent chunk of change.

>>7904065

A little more context -- I've been actively trading stocks / commodities for years and have always used this same CPA for my taxes. This isn't some random guy I found through google or the yellow pages.

I trust him.

>>7899128
with the jews you always lose

>>7904065
Oh. I actually think I MIGHT know who your CPA is. Not gonna say who he is cuz he seems busy enough as it is and I don't want him to get mobbed by 4chan NEETS. Ask him about getting introduced to Merryl Lynch financial advisors. He said they can do some pretty spectacular things with leverage.

>>7904163

Honestly, anon, i'd be surprised.
He's not a "crypto" CPA or anything of the sort.

Just a normal guy that works at a local firm. No big city shit, nothing too fancy.

If anons are having issue finding a CPA that can handle this stuff, just keep calling around and asking. It's seriously not nearly as bad as all the FUD threads on here make it out to be.

>actually filing it

>>7903568
100% agreed, very unlikely for an audit and them checking a lot of this shit. sounds like the most painless way. who cares if you pay 40% taxes instead of 20-30% seriously so much easier and voids all this other shit everyone else is talking about

>>7899811
are you stupid? The IRS doesn't do the work when you get audited. They usually stick you with an unreasonably high penalty, and it's 100% on you to prove that you owe less than that

>>7904266
Oh ok probably not then. In my mind I just felt like it was rare for that kind of accountant. The first few I called were absolute shit, just wanted to me to hand over as much money to the government and be as conservative as humanly possible to make their lives easier. Yeah I gotta say don't just go with the first one you find.

>>7899128
i heard you can get away with not paying taxes if you send picture of your circumcised benis to irs/department of dickpics

>>7904387
>They usually stick you with an unreasonably high penalty, and it's 100% on you to prove that you owe less than that

They can do this right now in the form of expecting you to pay before you cash out. The market crash has made it so the IRS is essentially cleaning most people out of their crypto holdings and punishing them on top of that.

150% taxes is now in place for anyone who even thinks about crypto in the future.

>>7901526
As the third guy, I can confirm that you're a moron. Every time you come into one of these threads you argue about how it's "impossible" to tax cryptos, even though there are objectively CPAs and Tax lawyers that specialize in helping people to do exactly that (not just the two software programs) because the IRS already communicated in 2014 that cryptos trades are taxable events. Can't speak for the other two, but I respond to you because I can't stand when people spread misinformation intentionally and act like some kind of authority on the subject as they do it. I say intentionally because you've been spoonfed all of the evidence (including publicly-available IRS notifications) that contradicts your position multiples times, so I know you're not arguing from ignorance at this point. Anyone who is dumb enough not to DYOR and takes your advice about how to handle their taxes is legitimately at risk of being fined for tax fraud/evasion.

>the same agency comes here everyday and posts these long bullshit paragraphs

nobody cares guys, just leave

>>7904560
>that contradicts your position multiples times, so I know you're not arguing from ignorance at this point.

My points haven't even been argued against yet. The only fucking argument I see is "THE IRS SAID SO!" But in practice it wont work because digital assets are not like physical assets. Its not enforceable due to massive number of unpredictable situations and use cases and transactions.

Less than 10% of people in crypto will report gains. Less than 5% of 90% those people will be punished.

Not one of you as proposed actual counter arguments for my points. You just keep talking about this shit like its some gold standard when in practice it simply will not play out that way.

This is going to be an endless battle and the IRS either changes its policies or it loses the fight long term.

>>7904560
Also what misinformation did I spread exactly? I am not arguing that the IRS isnt going to try and do this. My points are around the precedent it sets and the chances of it working out.

>>7899903
>>7901953

ya'll might want to look into something called a tax bracket

>>7905747
No ones biting on your high tax bracket larp hun

>>7904560
He literally thinks he has equal or higher authority than the IRS.

See:
>>7905573

>paying taxes on crypto

>>7906090
Its not authority dumbass. Its being able to understand the implications and most likely outcome of a situation.

Both are very grim! Its obvious as fuck this is a grim situation! For both sides.

>>7906184
So the thread is about how we are complying with the IRS's rules, how to track trades, is it necessary to hire a CPA. So we truthfully answered all those questions, it's completely possible to comply.

Then you're coming and saying that you should be a tax protestor and INACCURATELY saying there's no way for you to get in trouble for no complying.

>>7899128
>>7899481
>>7899692
>>7899945
literal shills

>>7906239
> Then you're coming and saying that you should be a tax protestor and INACCURATELY saying there's no way for you to get in trouble for no complying.

No I said this shit isn't going to work out and there is no real way to do it properly. And the current solutions are a joke. And its a free chance to target anyone they want for any reason even if they do "comply".

Its obviously true what I am saying. I will bet you right now that come April we will be hearing the IRS go into full panic mode when a massively low number of people report crypto gains. It will probably be hundreds of people that report crypto to crypto trades.

It wont be enforced once they realize it cant work that way.

Are you telling me I am wrong?

>>7899128
>new IRS tax code
There is nothing new about it. They just offered more clarification. Crypto to crypto trades were always property exchanges and not like kind exchanges, so they have always been taxable events according to the letter of the law.

Meanwhile, back in reality, none of it actually matters now that we're approaching the age of decentralized offshore exchanges. Think of the chain of events that would need to happen for the IRS to come after crypto to crypto trades and the amount of legwork that is involved and it's not difficult to come to the conclusion that it wouldn't be worth their time. Fiat-crypto exchanges like Coinbase are the real jackpot and they're what they have and what they will continue to go after simply because it's the easiest method for them to link an individual to undeclared income with the help of their cooperative friends at your local (((bank))).

They aren't going to waste their time trying to subpoena Bittrex or Poloniex (who probably won't even exist in 3-4 years kek) for your shitcoin trade history which is an absolute rabbit hole of horrendous proportions for anybody that's even made a few dozen trades.

>Amerifats - how are you complying with the new IRS tax code regarding crypto trades?

I'm not. Taxation is theft, and I will not be stolen from. The end.

If glow in the dark IRS niggers come for me, I will be happy to argue my position with hot lead.

>>7906459
Yes. You're wrong. It's not going to be 800 people reporting their gains like in 2016. My CPA says that this is the first year that the majority of people really made gains and is where people are starting to report and even amend previous years' tax returns to get everything straight.

> there is no real way to do it properly.

That's simply wrong.

>reporting your trade of digital currency or goods to the IRS
>ever

shiggy diggery doo
the kikes are coming for YOU
shiggery diggery dee
the kikes are not coming for ME

>>7906628
>Yes. You're wrong. It's not going to be 800 people reporting their gains like in 2016.

Its going to be low as fuck. The vast majority of people who have invested in crypto right now owe more than they made. after the crash.

The number is going to be low as fuck. screencap this.

> That's simply wrong.

10k transactions a year. All of them 100% accurate guys. Its just like stocks!

Ok can you agree on this one thing.

> Do you agree that digital goods have a strong tendency to have far more transactions even for basic use?

If you are not full of shit you agree on this.

> Do digital assets have a much larger pool of potential use cases than physical goods?

You can bet your ass on this. Especially when the coins are changed to skate around tax code.

>>7899128

Tyrone's 6th bastard needs a new pair of converse sneakers and his mum May'belyne need her nails done.

Pay up them taxes Goy, you don't expect them to work for themself you fucking racist?

>>7906821
>The number is going to be low as fuck. screencap this.

Define low as fuck. Are there going to be non-reporters? Yeah. And if I were the IRS I'd have a field day just subpoena ing more exchanges, harvesting names, and fire into the crowd of non reporters like a machine gun and making examples out of as many people as possible. I'd rather not be at the Mandalay Bay during the shooting even if I probably wouldn't get hit. And is it going to be only a few hundred reporting like you said before? No, not even close.

>10k transactions a year. All of them 100% accurate guys. Its just like stocks!

If you kept records properly 10k transactions is as easy to compute as 100. You don't do it manually.

Number of transactions or potential use cases is completely irrelevant for tax purposes.

>>7899128
>How do you keep track of your trades/taxes?
I don't. I can't make it if I am forced to do homework for commies. It puts an extra drawdown in my trading system, a burden I don't have the means to pay or compute. I won't sell my digital money, which varies wildly, for the USD shitcoin. I don't use USD unless I need food or clothing.

>>7906906
So much truth in this.

>>7903389
Binance have already said on record they will comply with every government. They will cave, instantly, rather than lose the US market.

>>7903469
>The IRS is very powerful
false. they literally audit almost nobody and almost nobdy goes to jail. they have no resources to prosecute millions of people

>>7907426
>Bay during the shooting even if I probably wouldn't get hit. And is it going to be only a few hundred reporting like you said before? No, not even close.

Yeah I think it will be hundreds again. Barely any difference from 2016. Its going to be low. The reason why is because its too complicated and the crash put way too many people into a complete loss. Most Americans don't know how to file taxes outside of doing tax returns. Its a completely alien concept.

So whats going to happen is nobody reports. The IRS does what you say it will. This ends up having an even greater negative affect on the IRS as now its pushed everyone who. It becomes "us vs them" situation where "innocent people are being targeted"

Lots of panic as this happens because most anons are already under water. Many of them dont even have a way to pay let alone will ever be able to.

Everyone who is already fucked basically. Thats when we begin seeing tax haven tech emerge as the demand arrives. a small number of people figure out how to live entirely through crypto. Ok this is the important phase to watch out for.

Once crypto begins changing around tax law is when the first real shots will be fired. Because you see where the truth about how digital goods are not like physical goods. Digital goods can change.

That will be when we move into the IRS panic phase.

>>7906906
This

Just sell BTC on localbitcoins and take out cash. Or create a fake VPN business that takes crypto and launder it under a C-Corp or LLC

/biz/ is full of 14 year old retards though so no one here would know how to do anything remotely adult kek

>>7899128
I've only lost money so far so I don't have to worry about it.

>>7908721
>Just sell BTC on localbitcoins and take out cash.
A guy in Michigan went to prison for doing this. You have to register more than just a LLC.

Hodl your bitcoins. Don't give them to the jews and commies.

>>7899963
they closed that loophole

>>7903854
>chainalysis

>>7900198
No, you're completely misunderstanding it. Us as normal traders and investors, when we buy and sell crypto, they're Capital Assets. And they're taxed as capital gains tax. When a business such as Coinbase sells crypto as retail / inventory all their proceeds are considered ordinary income. The same concept is in stocks. Investors have capital gains, stock brokers and businesses have revenue.

>>7899911
So you actually filled out an 8824 form and went through all the complicated instructions that go along with a like-kind exchange?

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8824.pdf

I bet you didn't.

Hi, my name is Jamal the seal. Why aren't you selling your Crypto to USD and giving it to me?

>>7899128
localbitcoin...sell for cash

Pay tax to support Israeli wars. Use common Americans as economic batteries for Jewish causes. Don't remember why 9/11 actually happened. It was Bush.

Except you haven't made the world any better and you lost time, Crypto AND dollars. What a bunch of fucking shit. I couldn't care less how you feel about yourself after giving what will probably be a fortune of money away in 5 years, anon.

Its all going to zero and you're going to be stuck with a government bill.

>>7899128
Family accountant called me back today

He said I don’t gave to do jack shit until I cash out

And that he’s holding ETH

This new tax only effects trades in 2018 correct?

>>7910424
sounds like a good accountant

>>7910513
No. It's not new. It's been the case since 2014 and applied retroactively.

>>7910424
Did you trade for other cryptos?

>>7910424
Your accountant told you to not bother paying taxes on trades?

>>7910665
Sounds like he doesn't know what he's talking about. But you know what he should do is get a letter of opinion from him saying that you don't have to report or pay anything until you cash out so that you can blame it all on him when you get audited.

>>7899128
honestly? i don't think im gonna even make over 15k eoy, so i won't be cashing out until 2020

>>7902372
Literally never in my life have I paid taxes quarterly. I file and get my return or pay what I owe one time every year. And I trade crypto and co-own a small business. Fucking faggot

If I'm trading high value assets into low value assets, wouldn't that mean I'm always losing money? If they consider cryptos as property, then you only ever lose value if you trade in the right direction right? So I could keep claiming losses as long as the relative value of the coins I trade goes in the negative direction?

>>7911653
lol?

>>7902359
oh you poor innocent sweetie . . .

I cashed out 100k and some of it was from shitcoin exchanges. I only reported my Coinbase forms though since it's what I used to cash in/out. Haven't had any problems with the IRS whatsoever.

>>7899128
are Amerifats the only ones with this problem of euros have to report and pay taxes too?

I've cashed out about $6,000. The IRS can suck my mafuckin balls bitch ok?

>>7911653
Yes. This is why biz is always telling you to buy high and sell low.

Honestly, I think crypto is worth not reporting altogether.

>>7899128

>>7901327
>implying law is retroactive or even capable at this point
how many people get fucked for downloading via torrents each year compared to how many download without a care in the world?

>>7902399
If you have enough to pay off your mortgage then either make enough to take tax into account or suck it up and wagecuck to pay off the tax having paid off your house
is there really any other way around that?

oh wait multiple people have sold their houses and property using only bitcoin all over the world

kek

You only pay tax on a trade if you make a profit. If you do pay tax, you are only taxed on the profit itself, not the whole sum. If you don't make a profit, you can file for a loss (up to $3,000 a year, I believe).

If you do make a profit, you either pay Long-term Capital Gains tax (held longer than 365 days) or Short-term Capital Gains tax (held 365 days or less). The amount taxed is different for each, you can find table guides online.

The Randall Lord guy was operating as a Money Service Business without a license, he wasn't simply "trading".

Cointracking.info is probably better than bitcoin.tax. Still takes a lot of manual work and fixing errors. Use my referral code for some money off

https://cointracking (dot) info?ref(equalsign)T310566