/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>787053
I dunno man, the game seems a little tilted. Wish I had seen it sooner.
>went to college for two years
>roughly 11k in loans
>at 11 dollars an hour, taking roughly 600 home every 2 weeks (because I lose nearly 200 thanks to taxes and neetsecurity), with about 500 in bills and other expenses, will take roughly 2 more years to pay it off if I put everything I have left into paying it off
>and this is with no car payments, no phone payments, no insurance payments, and relatively small gas and food bills
So if I wanted to actually live a little or eat the appropriate amount of food, it would take probably double the time to pay these off. For 2 years of gen eds that could easily be mistaken as highschool courses. Investing? Not fucking happening at this rate. Actually buying a house or land? Hah.
Student Loans may as well be a death sentence for those without.

>>787053

You can't stop hustling.

You work smart, not harder and if it's not beneficial then you don't do it.

Save up some dosh, look for a up and coming business to invest in.

Or you can start your own business and grow that shit from the ground up.

Even on an income less than 90k annually it is possible to save up enough to invest in assets while still living a decent quality of life. If you have two people splitting costs it gets even easier. The middle class really has little excuse for its failure to adapt.

>>787203
>income less than 90k annually

That's a fortune. I'm getting like 22k€ annually and it's a decent salary in my country.

>>787230
It's all in perspective. Your salary is what $60k is in the US. Save save and invest in your country. Buy property and rent etc

> THAT much

It starts with cutting your expenses. You do not need 100k a year to live on, your materialism is not making you happy.

I live on 5k a year. Currently working on getting that much from passive income, a very obtainable goal.

> b-but muh hookers and alcohol

>>787162

nope majoring in anthropology was your death sentence.

>>787240
>anthropology
Ironically it was business/math.

>>787239

>5k a year
must be nice having mommy and daddy pay for everything

>>787239
Trust me, I really cut my expenses and save as much as I can.

But still, it's not like you'll be able to save 300-400k in 10-15 years so you can live off the interest.

>>787239
>I live on 5k a year

How? I would love to live on passive income, but I don't think I could do it for less than 10-15k.

>>787239
>I live on 5k a year

GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE FAGGOT

FUCKING BULLSHIT

You cannot reach financial independence as a wage salve, unless you are interested in some kind of hippie minimalist lifestyle.

There are only a handful of ways to get rich:

>have equity in a business that succeeds
>get lucky in property investing
>get lucky on the stock market
>invent something great

All are within the means of an average person, but none are without risk. Wage slaves have no risk, but no reward either.

>>787234

>Buy property

Muh passive income

>>787487

Lets say hypothetically that you live off 6% interest, which is 18-24k. 6% is extremely aggressive and will cause your lump sum to decrease in value in time just from inflation. Any market corrections are going to cause your income to shrink, and you'll basically never grow. No offense, but millennials are going to need like >2M in assets to be able to retire in 50 years, and that'll be a modest retirement then.

>>787239
We got a real legend in this thread. OP tell us how you live. Tell us your ways.

>>787798
He's not saying you can't live off ~375k (average of those two numbers), he's saying after taxes, medicare, social security, state mandatory insurances, etc, if spends literally nothing, literally, he still won't have 375k in 10-15 years.

>>787814
>>787798
I didn't read the second half of your post because I'm a coconut photo trading board faggot.

Agreed on 2mil, I'd say 3 for good measure. Most of us will never have a solid 1 mil.

>>787053

College and picking high-paying easily employable disciplines.

My wife is a NP at $130k, I had less success but still make decent money in IT... married at 19, had a million in assets by the time we were 26.

>>787519
>>787506

He isn't factoring the rent/mortgage, utilities, etc he saves on buy living with his parents.

>>787053

Is it possible to be truly independent with less then 1M in assets? Not unless your a shekelstien and devoid yourself from enjoyment in life.

Lets be honest guys. LIke all humans before you, you will have to work throughout most of your life to survive aka be a wageslave.

>tfw decent sized trustfund that should hit 2 million be the time i'm 35. Living a decent retired life.

I consider myself lucky

>>787053
Google "early retirement extreme"

>>787053
work 3 months at a shit job
use money to travel 6 months

better then being a full-time wageslave

>>787443
> must be nice having mommy and daddy pay for everything
>>787822
> He isn't factoring the rent/mortgage, utilities, etc he saves on buy living with his parents.

Sigh. I live alone faggots, and that figure includes everything.

> But still, it's not like you'll be able to save 300-400k in 10-15 years so you can live off the interest.

I only need 117k on 5% interest including taxes. In practice I'm getting much better interest, and so can get to retiring earlier.

>>787802
> We got a real legend in this thread. OP tell us how you live. Tell us your ways.

Here's my monthly expenses, converted to usd (eurofag).
> rent: 230$
> electricity: 15$
> water: 25$
> phone: 1$
> internet: 0$ (our HOA bought an apartment pack, we get 10/10 fiber all included in rent. It raised our rent by ~8 $)
> food: 112$

That is it. No car, I walk everywhere. No insurances, no magazines, no other running expenses. I pirate my books and entertainment. I cook for myself, and not badly either, I eat good steak/chicken everyday, getting my 100g of protein.

>>787834
$1M invested with a conservative ROI of 8% and 2% reinvested to counter inflation will net you (after 25% tax) ~$3125 a month.

It all depends on how you wanna live but its very doable

>>787912
7% ROI*

>>787240

this is actually fairly untrue, having a degree in anything increases your value. Though it is true that some are more valuable than others depending on economic demand. Besides the STEM degrees are getting flooded even more now so even elite engineers can't find anything. You need a master's now to stand out from the pack. Pretty soon, it will be a Ph.D to stand out. Then it will expected to have a PhD to work as a cashier. Because those registers require advanced training.

>>787912

great, how do i get the 1 mil to start?

>>787053
I make $11 an hour and I plan to retire at 50. I don't understand what bullshit excuses you are making.

Just look into vanguard accounts and keep some small percentage in precious metals if you are paranoid.

Stop spending $400 a month on food. Cut your cellphone bill, etc. It adds up.

>>787920
1 million dicks

>>787922

how about 100,000 dicks at 10 bucks a pop? Seems more doable...

>>787923

Thats the spirit!

>>787923
This

>>787818
What's NP?

>>787917
Check this out dummy.
You can just say you have a degree when they ask which college give them the name of a college that went bankrupt so they cant check. Saved you idiots 80k people do it all the time in China.

>>787930

nondeterministically polynomial, the set of problems whose answers may be acquired in polynomial time by a non-deterministic turing maching, aka an oracle

>>787939
If Oracles are only getting paid $130k in this economy then us plebians are fucked.

>>787953

They're still under the heel of the polynomial jew

>>787907
Your expenses are 5k because you live in a shithole east european country

I'm a business owner and earn a measly 21k€ a year. I however live quite frugally and I can put a lot of my costs on my business (apartment, car, lunches)

I also invest agressively in real estate and now started with stocks
I've accumulated assets worth 340,000€ in 7 years (48,000€/year average)

>>787912
Too bad real growth in developed nations will be like 2%.

>>787982
Sure thing bro :^)

>>787907
where do you live and how can I get there from Poland?

>>787988
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-20/buybacks-and-dividends-all-that-s-left-in-s-p-500-goldman-says

>>787998
I dont need anything fixed right now sweet friend

>>788004
funny, never heard that joke before

>>787971

I live in a large German city 200m away from my uni and I have similar expenses as him. I know you can't compare that with places such as Cali or NY, but still. Most people fail because they have too high standards.

>>788005
>>787998
>where do you live and how can I get there from Poland?
¨
was it a srs question? if so, do you have any skills? Poland and Denmark are both part of the EU so its pretty easy to come work here, easier if you are craftsman

>>787930

nurse practitioner

>>788007
In Finland, Helsinki merto area the cheapest rent you can find is 500€. If you live in central helsinki it's about 800€ for 23m2

>>787907

must be hard to pick up chicks when you're that cheap

>hey come in my 100sq ft. appartment, we're gonna eat some flour and cabbage and then read a book while drinking some tap water

>>787971
> shithole east european country

Finland, one of the largest cities. Not the capital area though.

>>787998
You're in the EU, just move over like Scandifag said.

>>788102
It's about 600 sq ft according to google. Sure a partyslut would scoff at a self-cooked meal and a walk with the sun setting, but meh.

>>788080
There's a huge apartment bubble in the capital area. Beats me why anyone wants to live there.

> Hki your apartments are twice the cost of the country avg
> workers are suffering, they can't move there due to not finding places to live
> students even worse
> zone more housing land

> lolno

>>787234
>Buy property
How? I'm for example from a country where 300€/month is the average salary, and a mid-size apartment costs about 60-70k€, and you can rent it out for like 150-200€. How can I do anything here except inheriting 10 apartments?

>>787239
This guy is right. I cut my living down pretty fucking low too, but my income is also really low so I don't see a lot of it.
>Find a cheap apartment (Got lucky in a non-sketchy area
>Have 2 roommates.
>Pay 3600 a year in rent
>Walk to work except in bad weather
>Spend roughly 2000 on food

>>788584
> 33 year payback time for one apt

That kinda rules out real estate for you, yeah. Then it's the traditional stocks and bonds.

>>788216
Torilla tavataan faggot

If you live in one of the biggest cities in Finland, your rent is not something 300€ a month. You either live in a solu, state owned or in a student apartment building or in your parents basement.

I do real estate in Finland and I promise that you CAN'T find an apartment in a bigger city for 200-300€

Prove me wrong

>>788947
>>That kinda rules out real estate for you, yeah.
I don't understand how people in other countries do it though. Is the rent much higher compared to the cost of the apartment? If so, wouldn't everyone just buy apartments to rent out, and drive the prices down?

>>788949

Mustamakkara on pahaa

Apartments in JKL for 300e:
http://www.jva.fi/vuokraus/asunnot/itainen_alue

Tampere:
http://www.vuokraovi.com/vuokra-asunnot/tampere?page=1

Oulu, starting from 250e:
http://www.vuokraovi.com/vuokra-asunnot/oulu

All proper apartments, not solus. All privately owned.

>>788950

Yes, rent is much higher vs the apt cost. A ratio like yours seems really skewed. Usual payback times are 10-15 years.

> If so, wouldn't everyone just buy apartments to rent out, and drive the prices down?

There's a limited amount of places, not everyone can get a loan, not everyone wants to own a place to rent... It's a profitable industry though.

Also, more demand means higher prices, not lower.

>>788950
I live in a country with a similar ratio to yours and around here, what people do is build a group of small cabins/units inside a single property, so that they have multiple tenants.

>>787834
I don't get all these people who say that you must "devoid yourself from all enjoyment in life" to retire.
Most things people on 4chan do to enjoy life are very low cost: Internet and television.
And what they could do to make it even better: go outside sometime. You're not gonna be broke from that

>>787834

>waste = enjoyment

>>788969
Dude are you high? I literally just vuokraovied Oulu for 300€ down and the 8 apartments are all Solu

>>789010
8 first*

>>789010

My bad, the SATO ones don't say they are in the listing. Oulu doesn't have much below 350e.

When will wageslave be an autoban on this board, it's just ridiculous at this point.

People here use it as a blanket term from the minimum wage hourly worker to a guy salaried for $350k.

>>788995
The main problem I see with it is that it's a "business" that just doesn't grow. I mean, even if I save up for one or two places, the amount of money I can get out of it doesn't support getting a third place in a few years, then a fourth... you get the idea. It's just something that's a hassle to do and with no good return.

Does anyone have any better ideas on what to do instead with about 60k€?

>>787976
>I've accumulated assets worth 340,000€ in 7 years (48,000€/year average)
How?

>>790563
he owns the 4chan bro

>>787924
>mfw 9gag watermark

>>787053
i means loans are the only way to "influence" more money than you literally have.

real estate people always buy with loans in order to control more property than without

It's all about earning more money than the interest rate

Let's say you had a 3% loan

What if you're earning 9% of the principal per month from rent (after expenses, also i don't do this so correct me if i'm wrong)

That means you pay the bank 1/3rd of your profits for the right to earn the other 2/3rds. (or even pay another 1/3rd towards building equity to borrow against).

Once you have equity to borrow against, you can use that as collateral in order to borrow even more.

It's still an investment that could go up or down (you could earn less rent than than it would take to pay interest -- this is how many wealthy people got fucked by 2008)

>>789028

>>787815
>Most of us will never have a solid 1 mil

go fuck yourself quitter

>>789728
It was part luck, part opportunity.

Seven years ago:
I bought an apartment for dirt cheap, I got it around -30% of market value. I got it with 100% borrowed money. It has since then risen in worth crazy fast from 105,000 (was worth around 150,000) has gone up to 280,000€ and I have 35,000€ left in loans.

I saved all the money I got in from work and bought another apartment a few years ago. That has now 90,000€ left in loans and is worth about 170,000

Then I've saved money about 30-40k in cash and stocks.

I recommend you guys to learn about how leveraging in mortgages and apartments work and what kind of percent of return it gives you compared to stocks

> put down 20k for 150k apartment
> get 8k in rent after cost per year
> return of inital investment: 40% per year

>>791043
So basically you just got lucky in a country with a good economy, nice. Property prices have been falling steadily here for the past 10 years.

>>791043
I was looking into buying a building complex 160k down for 800k, will get around 9k a month, but after expenses will only make 2300. ROI is must less

>>791046
Yep like I said, luck had a good part in it. I did however save money and take initiative when people my age were out drinking, traveling and buying rubbish. I also know there is a bad bubble in my country and I will sell my flats soon.

>>791059
The calculator is your friend. It also depends how much assets you have to back up your investment. That big investement can really back fire if you rates go up

I live on less than 10k a year
>less than 10k
>"living"
It's fucking terrible