/biz/ - Business & Finance

nocoiner spotted

>literally called bitgoyz

>>7737372
Kek'd hard

The absolute state of nocoiners

any counter arguments, or just gonna call him a no coiner?

>>7737342
>>7737454
Explain IBM Hyperledger or any other private blockchain solution not publicly traded on exchanges. Obviously not used for illicit purposes and obviously a better solution for certain use cases than a cloud database

most crypto's are not anonymous, so they are no good for buying illegal goods

>>7737342
>bitgoyz

>>7737342
It's over guys... LINK got BTFO......
time to apply to mcdonalds......

I'm just checking to see how posting a comment works in 4chan. Origin planet is Reddit.

>>7737454
he's correct, blockchain is really only useful for crypto currencies. as soon as you centralize a component of the ecosystem, it's no longer blockchain.

>>7737506
that's called experimentation.. there's a lot of hype around it, and consultants have money to make. i know because i consult w/ IBM regarding blockchain for my company.

>>7737717
fucking retarded comment
you guys are all fucking pathetic and need to learn basic computer skills if you actually believe blockchain is completely revolutionary, then again you are on an anonymous image board so you probably come here because youre a fucking retard irl

>>7737717
But RBC (Canadian bank) uses Hyperledger to settle interbank settlements. Maybe someone should tell them they should use a cloud database.

I'm not saying blockchain can be used for everything that coiners say it should be used for. I'm just debunking the notion that it's only used for illicit purposes. It's a dumb statement.

>>7737762
isn't***** completely revolutionary. Blockchain is literally going to be the backbone of our society in 10 years

>>7737762
i'm the main blockchain guy for a fortune 50 company, i guess they picked the wrong guy. it's a niche middleware that isn't being used for anything besides currency for a reason. stay dumb and poor.

>>7737454
He conveniently forgets immutability. Conventional databases can be modified by someone who has write permission, and they are vulnerable to corruption. Any kind of secure log or accounting ledger would benefit from that.

>>7737778
they're experimenting with it, not using it in production. there is a big difference. my company is also experimenting with it.

>>7737778
RBC does not use blockchain

>>7737876
I guess they did, because you seem uneducated as fuck and I can tell you're just LARPing and you probably have a high school diploma and that's it. Considering I ACTUALLY study cs at a top uni I can tell you are completely talking through your ass, either that or you are a complete failure at your job and will be replaced very shortly for losing your "company" millions.

>>7737762
>computer skills
>not recognizing the technological advancement of distributed consensus

You sound like an angst ridden teenager who think he’s “good at computers” because boomers told him so.

>>7737953
It was a mistype. I already know the amazing potential of the blockchain, was responding to the other LARP boomer retard who can't grasp HTML

>>7737948
oh ok, the kid in school knows more about this stuff than a director making $230k/year lmfao

>>7737342
yes—enjoy tech giants rifling through everything of yours that touches a computer, and then trying to pander to you with psychological triggers to funnel you into developing a mindset that they can easily manipulate and control, all because >muh nothin' to hide
get absolutely fucked, you stupid nocoiners—and especially if you don't see value in decentralized and highly-private blockchain technology, then enjoy getting fucking raped by the corporatocracy, you moronic fucking central-authority-loving mongs

and yes,
>bitgoyz
fucking kek

>>7737983
Lol, even on an anonymous image board you are a fucking loser LARPing someone who's somewhat successful irl. feel bad for you man, take some computer classes and maybe one day you'll actually qualify to be the person you try and LARP

>>7738018
you've gotta be the angriest dude i've seen all day. sorry but your shitcoin lottery tickets are going nowhere bro. also if you'd like to bring up an example of how blockchain will "revolutionize" our world i'll go ahead and debunk it for you, embarrass you, and then post smug anime girls as i chase you out of this thread

>>7737342
>Links to an obscure reddit comment
>Lololol blokchayn iz ded

>>7738058
it's definitely not dead, it's great for crypto currency. that's it tho

>>7737596
LOL. Link is like Ripple. Not even a crypto. What would you expect?

>>7738050
>literally cant realize for himself that a massive distributed consensus that can be used from anywhere isn't revolutionary
boomers always make me laugh the hardest because technology always makes you act retarded

>>7737342
He is 100% right though.

>>7737762
>>7737876
>>7737948
>>7737983
>>7738018
>>7738050
this is the most pathetic exchange I'd seen this year

>>7738050
>smug anime girls
Please anon, no, anything but that. I have a family

>>7738107
>still can't provide an example

>>7738075
Your dunning kruger is showing.

>>7738136
>ad homs with no substance
it's so easy to brush you dummies off

>>7738000
Based triple 0

These humans, they still don't get it.

Hopefully, some will get into intro-tier content like Dantalion Jones or accidentally stumble on Robert Anton Wilson's work.

>>7737454
it is true that if you believe every institution is 100% honest all the time and every government has your best interests at heart, then there's no point in using a blockchain

I am a crypto fan myself. But he's right: blockchain is useless anywhere outside currencies. And institutions are more likely to adopt a commercial solution for their purposes rather than a public chain controlled by chinks and whales.

>>7738175
of course he's right. it's sad to see of the poor children ITT with crypto dreams not wanting it to be true though, as they want to believe their shitcoins will bring them riches. never going to happen kids!

>>7737876
it's a good thing you're larping, because otherwise it'd be infinitely sadder for muh 230k/y director to come on an anonymous chinese cooking recipe message board to throw a tantrum
time to step away from the keyboard and ask yourself why is it you care so much you'd come here while none of us would go on a stock market forum

>>7738132
>>7738175
Did you guys miss the livestream where US gov and many others talked about blockchain and how they could apply it to many industries ?

>>7738175
Even if it was useless outside of currency (it isn’t), that’s still a revolutionary advancement. True digital currency was impossible before the advent of blockchain, you doublenigger. Still, you’re a fucking moron if you can’t see the applications in logitistics, voting, supply chain, fintech, and more. Just because the tech is in development doesn’t mean there aren’t solid uses forthcoming.

>>7738245
can you point out where i threw a tantrum? i'm over here laughing. i'm just killing time before we head out to a friend's house for some food, drink and olympics :)

also, you're here forever.

>>7737342
Anyone who thinks blockchain will be used for anything other than crypto currency is a absolute moron.

>>7737878
I think that that can be prevented by using checksums and keeping track of new changes, might still be cheaper than running a full blockchain

>>7738278
those people don't actually understand it. they're just parroting what others have said. that's what a hype cycle looks like. btw, since when did people start believing others without evidence?

>Literally taking seriously retards from plebbit
>The same kind of people who bought BCC and Davor

watch this video idiots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VptsprY6qPI
For example at 1hour he start talking about how they can apply blockchain tech to reduce the time from 7 days to 2.2 sec. Watch the fucking video idiots. They even explain how blockchain can be used for the military

>>7737342

Buy Espers on Yobit, sir

>>7738356
>since when did people start believing others without evidence?
prob since a new generation was born and had access to the internet, i refuse to believe everyone was this retarded before it

>>7738365
"could be" used for X is the key. wait until the engineers actually have to implement something, and the architects are going to laugh at the notion of using blockchain. my CEO is asking me to coordinate a PoC w/ blockchain just to shut our business partners up.

>>7738405
*CIO rather

>CPU power of a bunch of random faggots with varying CPUs, providing their CPU usage across the globe with lots of latency
>Your own CPU/servers locally connected, all are very high-powered CPUs

Pick 1

>>7738278
Keeping an open mind "just in case" is a rational step, unlike forbidding things on the fly

>>7738282
I hope you don't really fall for all the fancy claims that you read in numerous ICO whitepapers. Most of them are trying to solve non-existing problems and thus are complete bullshit. And whenever blockchain IS applicable in real life, it's unlikely to use public chains, the sad truth.

>>7738405
If you're an actual engineer I'm sorry for your boss. Sure DLT is niche and not useful for most things but it does have application as a secure currency / data storage, and one of these cryptos is likely gonna see some actual serious use for that soon. In the meantime it's stocks lite for millenials

>>7738345
Hmm. Sounds a lot like a distributed ledger.

>>7738532
i agree with you about it being extremely useful for currency. it's not the optimal solution for anything else though, sorry.

>>7737342
>the main conceit of a blockchain is its decentralization and trustlessness, so its "usefulness" is strictly restricted to less than legit uses

yeah there is definitely no use for a decentralized database

definitely no problems with having all of our identies stored in a single centralized database

definitely no problems with having all of our money stored in a single centralized bank

definitely no problems with having the internet being a centralized network being controlled by ISPs and large corporations

>what is equifax? what is a banking crisis? what is net neutrality?

>>7738476
That's true but the real use of DLT lies in challenging banks and eventually slowly becoming a competitor to government fiat

>>7738476
I agree, but saying that a blockchain is completly useless except for transactions is retarded

>>7738585
I don't need you to be sorry, especially when you're wrong about that. Like I said it's great for storing data in a way that makes it provably authentic. Data storage and currency are the only applications I can think of though. But like I said it's not so much about the tech as much as the philosophy. This is important to understand. This is a statement agains QE and bank control. People will see it in due time.

>Like I said it's great for storing data in a way that makes it provably authentic
Provide an example and I'll explain why you're wrong.

>>7738698
storing legal contract data permanently

>>7737342
STAY POOR NOCOINERS AAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

>>7738532
>Hmm. Sounds a lot like a distributed ledger.
But Wikipedia is not one.

>>7738730
Where is the contract information originally sourced from? It's a single entity providing information to a decentralized ledger, and we've very quickly arrived at the oracle problem. There's no point in using a decentralized ledger to store information if there is a single source that provides it, hence enabling potential corruption. Might as well make it completely centralized at that point.

Next

>>7737454
>>7737717
>>7738132


see >>7738602

there are many many problems with having centralized databases. not going to explain every single individual use case. If you don't see the reason in having a decentralized database you really shouldn't invest into crypto.

>>7738337
... what the fuck am I reading. its a tautology, a blockchain can't exist without a crypto currency.

>>7737933
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-rbc-blockchain/exclusive-royal-bank-of-canada-using-blockchain-for-u-s-canada-payments-executive-idUSKCN1C237N

do you not even take 5 seconds to google

>>7738802
>not going to explain every single individual use case.
Try explaining one that blockchain would solve

>>7738855
do you not even read

that means it's not being used in a production environment where it's being relied upon. it's a PoC, an experiment, and nothing more.

>>7738870
I just fucking did in the reply I linked to

SEE >>7738602

you fucking retard faggot learn to read

>>7737454
>>7737342
Let's say we take it for a given that trustlessness is only useful for "less than legit uses".
"Less than legit uses" are not a hard defined concept. Some people believe it's a "less than legit use" to spend your money on drugs or a gay marriage certificate or a gun or a donation for a political party they oppose.
Trustlessness in a currency provides freedom of money. Freedom of money is arguably as important as or a part of freedom of speech.

>>7738769
Wikipedia says so about what? If you have multiple sites of independent entities making copies of the same data it's as good as any crypto that offers data storage. In fact the crypto is better because it already exists and costs a fraction of a penny to operate, in contrast to everybody setting up their distributed and decentralized database.

>>7738799
>Where is the contract information originally sourced from
It's generated at contract time. When the parties are signing a contract they can verify the terms written on the ledger and then sign it with their public signatures and after that the contract is binding and stored immutably forever. It's not that hard.

>>7738602
>yeah there is definitely no use for a decentralized database
Decentralized database =/= blockchain

>definitely no problems with having all of our identies stored in a single centralized database
Would be better to store them on your own machine and let the host only have its checksum. Still less hassle-free than a full blockchain.

>definitely no problems with having the internet being a centralized network being controlled by ISPs and large corporations
Some countries have ISP-wide "registries of forbidden websites" and replace SSL certificates

>>7738910

>>7737454
You can put ID tags to addresses thereby giving the idetification needed to not have illegal shit going on. He also fails to forget putting it on any servers leaves it succeptable to hackers stealing that data (credit reporting agencies databases, hotel databases for credit cards, online purchases, etc.). The applications for block chain are limitless if the crypto community can iron out its inherent problems but once that happens (and it will only a matter of time), then You will start seeing mass adoption.

>Blockchain is literally going to be the backbone of our society in 10 years

>>7738928
Wikipedia keeps track of changes. You can roll it back if some changes were bad. Blockchain is based on the principle of immutability, it's not something that's needed in most fields.

And crypto is not cheap to operate at all.

>>7738928
>When the parties are signing a contract they can verify the terms written on the ledger
Ok I'll continue, why does that need to be decentralized? Current encryption technology can alert you when something has been tampered with. It's a lot cheaper to not make 10000 copies of the documentation. So what problem are you solving with blockchain?

>>7738947
>Decentralized database =/= blockchain

that is where you are wrong, go watch the SEC discuss using blockchain and DLT for decentralized databases for food and identities.

>Would be better to store them on your own machine and let the host only have its checksum. Still less hassle-free than a full blockchain.

no it wouldn't because then your computer is vulnerable. A databse is only as strong as its weakest part. This is why we use things like hardware wallets.

>Some countries have ISP-wide "registries of forbidden websites" and replace SSL certificates

this could be potentially avoided using web 3.0 dumbass.

None of your arguments are valid and you actually provided a use case in your third scenario.

anyone in this thread arguing against blockchain is just strawmanning retarded points and doesn't actually understand why things like DLT or bitcoin is useful. Go educate yourselves before entering this space or you will lose all your money investing into a scam. I'm saying this for your own good.

>>7737342
Kek, leave biz

>>7737342
>everyone is a beautiful, enlightened being
>game theorists are paranoid
>power dynamics are a lie
>let's trust everyone

>>7739015
Is wikipedia decentralized though? Decentralization is not useful when there's no huge need to be as trustless as possible. We trust wikipedia enough not to lie to us too much, but when it comes to money or legal data trustlessness becomes useful.

>>7739027
>Ok I'll continue, why does that need to be decentralized?
Why would it be useful to store legal data tamper-free digitally without relying on a third party? Are you asking?

>Current encryption technology can alert you when something has been tampered with
That's called hashing, brainlet. You store the hashes on a distributed ledger.

>>7737342
>he doesn't know game theory

>>7739138
Explain yourself or never post here again. Do you know a single thing about game theory? Have you ever solved a probability matrix?

>>7739038
>that is where you are wrong
I am not wrong, DYR. There are lots of decentralized database architectures, they don't necessarily have anything to do with blockchain.

>no it wouldn't because then your computer is vulnerable.
It's still true even if you're data is stored externally.

>This is why we use things like hardware wallets.
Valid, but its principles might be put to a good use without blockchain itself.

>go watch the SEC discuss using blockchain and DLT for decentralized databases for food and identities.
They keep an open mind "just in case". I see no problem with that.

>this could be potentially avoided using web 3.0 dumbass.
This can be potentially avoided by using a VPN. My point was that the tech never stopped oppressive governments. Let alone that web 3.0 doesn't have anything to do with blockchain, so its mention is irrelevant.

>>7739137
>without relying on a third party?
You think relying on 10000s of 3rd parties is going to be cheaper than relying on 1 when the same type of verification method exists? The resources to run those nodes are going to need to come from somewhere, unless you can convince every law office in the country to have their own dedicated blockchain server vs. paying a pittance from a centralized source. I'd like to see the logistics around that.

>>7738904
Dumb brainlet says a definite statement that they do not. They are obviously trying it.
Fuck off retard.

>>7739228
Are you sure you're an engineer and not just larping? Do you know that there are a couple of cryptos that allow storing data for fees of less than 1c? The resources come from voluntary nodes because running one costs almost nothing, unlike with BTC.

>>7739137
>Is wikipedia decentralized though?
Does it need to be? It already perfectly does its job.

>Decentralization is not useful when there's no huge need to be as trustless as possible.
Exactly. Institutions and governments are based on order and hierarchy, they're not a collection of trustless, independent actors. For that reason, blockchain is heavily redundant for them.

>>7739058
No one is arguing against blockchain per se. The point is, stop being an idealistic fool seriously falling for whatever you read in ICO whitepapers. Sure, there's good money to be made, but let's be realistic.

>>7738159
Yeah well you're not even saying anything you fucking retard you just baselessly assert your braindead opinion and then justify it by saying you make a lot of money. You're a fucking retard and that's the only thing that needs to be said to you.

>>7739300
>Exactly. Institutions and governments are based on order and hierarchy, they're not a collection of trustless
I believe I too said DLTs are pretty niche. But I also said that the ideals are king here. Sure a public DLT may be useful for data storage and maybe trading, but the real killer feature is still gonna be currency - currency that's not controlled by anybody, not even governments. It's the philosophy that's the real thing here. Governments are gonna have to give in eventually. USD is on the verge of a crash right now and so are many third world currencies. Crypto will just sit there while people have their money eaten away by inflation. Slowly but surely crypto is gonna gain adoption because non-fair fiat is just shit and tons of people are about to notice that.

>that lonely feel when you win an argument and nobody responds to you afterwards

>>7739413
>>7739714
There's nothing really to debate, we were talking about how blockchain is redundant in most fields other than currency, you simply retreated to repeating that it's good for currencies, which I did not particularly object. Strawman.

>>7739844
I didn't really consider to be having an argument with you as much as the other guy who insisted DLT is totally useless for anything but currency

>>7737878
You can do that with a normal database - it's a merkle tree and it's been around for decades.

>>7740355
Do coiners actually understand how hashing works? Just interested. We can move on to asymmetric encyrption after.

>>7740355
>>7740445
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. How are you gonna ensure the root hashes are untampered without distributing them to several entities? Hm?

do people really not still get this simple concept. blockchain --> smart contracts --> value. contracts of any nature become permanent so there is no way to back out of a contractual agreement

>>7737342
Thank goodness. I've been holding 100k bitcoin since the airdrop in 2009 and finally just market sold them. Thanks based redditor for helping me see the light.

>>7740727
What kinda smart contracts would be useful over what we have now though? One real example.

>>7740560
>>7740560
Lookup a merkle tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkle_tree

if I have a centralized public database where I hash the previous the entries, and entries _+ hash_prev_entry are signed by the person entering the data, I can't tamper with it. I can delete it though (distributed stops that bit).

>>7740969
I still don't see what you're getting at. Seeing a hash tree by itself doesn't give you any assurances that it's never been tampered with. The data structure can't prove to you on its own that it's legit. You need to distribute something for it to be trustless, at which point it becomes another distributed ledger, "crypto".

>>7738963
rekt

>>7741118
each entry is signed by the with the hash of the previous entry. So if the database adminstrator added a transaction, then transaction afterwards would have the wrong hash. if you delete a transaction with transactions after, the same happens. Asymmetric encryption and hashing give you a tamperproof ledger.

distributed stops deletion and lets people agree on an ordering of transactions where the hash is the last group/block of transactions and agree on which transactions get included. Centralized databases can stop transactions from being added.

>>7741118
You dont understand how a merkle tree works, its used all the time in rdbs to check if data has been corrupted.

>>7741459
>>7741567
>each entry is signed by the with the hash of the previous entry. So if the database adminstrator added a transaction, then transaction afterwards would have the wrong hash. if you delete a transaction with transactions after, the same happens. Asymmetric encryption and hashing give you a tamperproof ledger.
Hashing alone solves integrity problems when there is a trusted source of hash data, not trust problems. Since you're aware of the area you I'm kind of confused how you wouldn't understand this.


>distributed stops deletion and lets people agree on an ordering of transactions where the hash is the last group/block of transactions and agree on which transactions get included. Centralized databases can stop transactions from being added.
At which point you have a distributed ledger without the redundancy.

>>7738325
>can you point out where i threw a tantrum?
ask and ye shall receive

>>7741619
disregard that extra "you"

>>7737454
VISA's money problems would have never happened if they had used the block chain.

>>7737342
>22 points
We're still early adopters.

>>7737762
yes goy why would you want a transparent immutable voting system?

I could go on but your lack of imagination and foresight proves you not worth any more of my time

>>7741619
I didn't say trust problems, I specifically said tampering. Every entry in a merkle tree you know has been entered. Merkle Tree make databses immutable.

You still don't know other things - the merkle tree doesn't solve everything. For one transactions may have been broadcasted, but not entered. The (top of) the database can also be deleted.

>>7741619
I think the issue is that you dont think the blockchain is the trusted source of data. Its stored in multiple places across the network, so if one machine changes the blockchain it wont be approved by the network, so the blockchain ultimately remains unchanged.

There’s no point in debating this. It’s a banal, trite statement that blockchain is only useful for obfuscating illegal transactions. It’s so obviously false that there’s no sense engaging unless you want something to do between refreshing Blockfolio which is all this board is good for anyway.

>>7738121
still doesn't beat etherdelta's rearrangement

>>7741877
>The (top of) the database can also be deleted.
Yes, and edited. That's the issue there, and it can only be solved with distribution or relying on somebody to keep track of the top. I believe I saw the wikipedia page mention BTC having dabbled with hash trees too.


>>7741887
What are you even saying? Yes, blockchains are trustless because they're distributed. I was just saying a hash tree is not enough to replace DLT for its own use cases.

>>7739228

How do you utilize and trust smart contracts on a centralized database?

Using a secure public blockchain will be cheaper for a company than using their own private centralized database. The private company obviously doesn't pay the cost of all nodes; there are a number of users all splitting the node fees.

RFID chips on consumer products via blockchain - here is an example of a blockchain being superior to a centralized database. Refute that please.

>>7740822
>e been holding 100k bitcoin since the

seriously? You see no value in eliminating a middle 3rd party in a 3party escrow system?

>>7737342
LINK will prove this retard wrong.

>>7741619
the redundancy is what provides the security. useless without that

>>7738602

So the solution is a system where every one of your transactions becomes public knowledge for the rest of time?

>inb4: I'm not known, I use an anonymous address
I would direct your attention to room 641a. The only reason you're anonymous is because no one has wanted to link you as a person to your address

It's the main reason why I didn't buy $75 Bitcoin in 2013, I thought it was pumped by drug money, black market, money launderers, mafias and pump and dump schemers and I don't want to get into legal troubles.

>>7742171
Admittedly I'm a bit unclear on what I refer to with smart contracts. Atomic trading is obviously useful. Multisig wallets and escrow are useful. However, how many use cases are there really for turing complete smart contracts? It should be obvious to me by now but still I can only think of FunFair. What else is there so far that requires turing completeness and is not a complete gimmick?

What about derivatives - ETFs and ETCs? Are turing complete contracts necessary there? Is using NASDAQ and relying to trusted parties to manage the derivatives a problem to people here and what's it gonna require of cryptos to replace these existing structures?

>>7742656
The point is that you won't know in advance.

>>7742171

But you're not eliminating the third party, you're simply transferring it to someone else.

So instead of the third party being a company/organization with rules & regulations, you're turning it over to a bunch of anonymous computers run by who knows who from who knows where.

>>7742469

I heard about it around then, too
didn't understand a single thing about it and just ignored it completely kek

>>7742452
Yep totally didnt do a direct bank deposit 8 years ago to buy my bitcoin. B-b-but you arent anonymoose.
Fuck out of here reddit you stupid cunt. Cant stand millenial pseudointellectuals

>>7742795

Yes, let's set up a bloated top heavy crypto system in the event that I need to prove 10 years from now that I paid for that big mac.

>>7742700
But I like to speculate

Now that I think of it, turing complete cryptos might gain some adoption in performing trustless computations about the specs of equities and commodities. A smart contract could for example decide to liquidate a stock (even though that's a crazy example). An oracle could provide data to the contract, perhaps our boy LINK. But that's about as far as I can see turing complete smart contracts going. They're not as safe or performant as non-turing complete platforms so I'd wager the assets would still be stored on a different blockchain that gets most of the traffic. The ETH-like platform would only oversee the governance but not the transfer of assets. So, kind of a limited use case.

I'm still most bullish on currency / DEX projects.

>>7742730
this guy has no idea

>>7742999

Sure I do. The most hard-core crypto apostles are the same people who want to "fight the man", and think that by creating a decentralized fake currency, they are going to be able to take power away from the government and put it in the hands of the unwashed masses.

I understand. I just say it isn't going to work.

>>7742730
retard lmao

>>7743035
Remarkable strawmanning mate.

>fake currency
Less fake than government fiat. It's gonna creep up in both adoption and price while you stay there complaining.

>>7743231

Yes. Less fake that government currency. At least that is backed up by the full faith and credit of a nation, and not the hopes that people won't be able to do complex math faster in the future.

>>7743572
>At least that is backed up by the full faith and credit
>currency
>backed by credit
brilliant just brilliant. truly a system you can trust not to crumble down like a house of cards

>>7738050
Wowie how damaged do you have to be to make this post

>>7738444
This.

>>7737543

I'm not your goy toy, sexy goy
i'm just a sexy goy