/biz/ - Business & Finance

why does it matter if it is a zero sum game or not?

do you know a lot of things are like this?

>>7712240
... but all crypto is zero-sum. All real wealth is. To gain someone else must lose.

Life is a zero-sum game bucko

>>7712240
Nobody neeeeds to win. Such is the nature of a speculative asset Dumbo. That's where you are fucking up.

This post reeks of nocoiner.

Remember beanie babys anon? That is what bit coin is.

>>7712240
Bitcoin is backed by the darknet and people hiding money from roasties and authorities. For that reason, crypto will always live.

Bitcoin is kinda overvalued right now, but it's never gonna drop too low. And will most likely get replaced as a dominant coin at some point.

>>7712240
Explain how gold is not a zero-sum game


In order for someone to win (i.e. a gold) another person has to lose (i.e. give money in return for the gold).
Gold does not create value, Miners can create value, not gold itself.

People buy only because of the Hype, think they are going to get rich like Bill Gates only because they bought something that everybody is buying.

The metal on the other hand is rather seems interesting.
Can have real use in the real world...

>>7712361
>hiding money from roasties

what?

>>7712406

Supply and demand dipshit, basic economics.

>>7712438
wew

>>7712438
kekkk, i love this timeline.

>roastie: OH MY GOD, I SWEAR HE HAD LIKE 10 MILLION DOLLAR, HOW AM I GOING TO SUPPORT MY CREATURA AND GUCCI BAGS?? TYRONE IS ON WELFARE

>>7712240
Currencies in general are a zero-sum game where central banks benefit, fiat holders get fucked, bitcoin is neutral

Is the gold industry a zero-sum game too, commiefriend? They are fundamentally the same thing, except Bitcoin doesn't rely on an expensive banking system to secure ingots and can be sent overseas in minutes. If it solves a problem, it generates value.

>>7712438
Nice. RIP roasties

>>7712240
Any voluntary transaction is by definition win-win

>>7712401
based anon

>In order for someone to win (i.e. a Bitcoin) another person has to lose (i.e. give money in return for the Bitcoin).
In other words, "secure storage of value" is a value by itself. People are ready to pay earlier investors to get that value because their funds are inaccessible by anyone (it's still worth it even if they depreciate in fiat value). A PURELY speculative asset is one that is not seen as a store of value. That is the definition of most shitcoins, they rarely rise after an initial pump. People don't see them as valuable and move back to main coins.

Bitcoin has obvious issues with scalability, and the recent spike in price was mostly cause by speculative interest, but you must see the overall idea now.

Shitcoins are a 100% zero-sum game, though.

>>7712240
Every single market is a zero sum game. If you invest some money into the stock market and take out more than you put in, you did not create any money out of thin air. It had to come from someone else's pocket. And there's nothing wrong with that.

>>7713052
fractional reserve banking creates money out of thin air tho

>In order for someone to win (i.e. a Bitcoin) another person has to lose (i.e. give money in return for the Bitcoin).
Who knew? This guy's a fuckin genius.

>>7712401
From a normie point of view, gold is objectively a better store of value than crypto (unless we're talking about gold-pegged crypto). Gold is not subject to crazy volatility, mass market manipulations and regular security breaches causing mass panic. It's erroneous to equate gold to crypto, and, unless someone figures out a new crypto paradigm not susceptible to the kind of volatility that we have now, I don't see crypto replacing gold and fiat.

Crypto will stay valuable precisely because of its private, anonymous features, as well as the new DAO and ICO stuff. But let's get real. Crypto is not gold.

im not explaining you shit, if you dont like bitcoin dont buy it.
Now fuck off.

>>7712240
you post this every day, but I've had some thoughts about... life... it's nothing but an elaborate ponzi game.

>you accumulate resources with age
>if you're old enough you get free money in most western countries for just being old
>society expects young people to respect you
it's bullshit
age war now

>>7713123
But not wealth you mong

>>7712275
That's bullshit. If you carved a stool out of a log (as an example), you did create value and wealth.

>>7712401
OP knows nothing about economics. Every single exchange is based on two people valuing something differently, but that doesn't make it a zero-sum game. When I buy a burger at McDonald's, I show that, at that moment, I value the burger more than I value my $3. McDonald's at that moment values the $3 more than it values the burger. So we exchange. Doesn't make it a zero sum game. OP here is like so many brainlets on /biz/ that throw around terms like "zero-sum game" but don't actually know wtf they're talking about.

>>7713052
Companies produce actual, tangible wealth.
Cryptocurrencies do not.

>>7713327
>cut tree
>reduce potential oxygen supply
>kill birds nesting in the tree
>hur dur I make value and wealth
you're robbing mother nature nigger

>>7713382
get off your energy-burning computer then, genius

I HATE YOU FAGS I TOLD YOU ABOUT THIS GAME

https://dappradar.com/app/86/world-youcollect

THREE DAYS AGO AND IT 10X SINCE THEN AND ALL YOU FAGS CAN TALK ABOUT IS COINS THAT DONT MOVE


FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU

>>7712240
when someone doesn't have to pay a wire fee, that person gains - they used GDAX so they paid a much lower fee to convert back into fiat

international wires cost like $50

western union takes about $15 too, so that's not a solution

>>7713382

...What is value add...

>>7713346
A zero-sum game is when someone gains, the other loses. So it all boils down to the definition of gains and losses. If your goal is to store funds in a private, anonymous manner for an indefinite amount of time (or, alternatively, to buy some stuff in a private manner), it doesn't matter that someone got richer off of you because you accomplished your goal. If you goal, on the other hand, is speculation, i.e. to buy in order to sell for profit, it becomes a zero sum game, because not everybody can win at once in speculation.

>>7713463
To continue there is also opportunity cost and things like its intangible value but to carry on. How much is a tree worth in the ground? Say 5 bucks worth of oxygen in a year. How much is it worth if we take it out of the ground make 20 stools out of it minus labour costs and fuel etc. If value was added it is not zero sum as society and the individual or company received a net $ gain. If we looking at it from monetary terms of course.

>>7713585
I am hung over i must of missed the point you were making haha.

>>7713585
great answer

>>7712240

It would be zero-sum if total market cap remained constant and the market was a closed system. Since its not, its not zero-sum because players are constantly joining or leaving, either taking value or leaving value.

Similar to poker but players can join or leave on any hand. Zero sum by game mechanics, but the total wealth of the table increases as more players join. ""Early"" investors are betting on more players coming to the table.

>>7712240
Explain how Stocks are not a zero sum game.

>>7712240

The increased value comes in the form of transaction speed, ease of use and removing third parties.

As long as the devs can add new features, value keeps being added without the need for inflation.

>>7712240
Please look up pareto efficiency
Zero sum is the goal of any economy because it eliminates excess (bullshit) value. If you can gain without equivalent resources being spent elsewhere then you have created false value from thin air.

Reading threads like this reminds me that most of you guys are fucking retarded and will never make it.

Coins are a Ponzi scheme, but I bought early enough to profit from idiots like you. I already made over 100k, no need to pay taxes and still have 2 btc and 4 eth, waiting for the next pump

>>7714501
Read my posts, they're the most sane in the thread