/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>7631035
Don't you only have to pay them if you made over a certain amount?
/biz/ is full of poorfags that didn't make the minimum.

And they were all boomers! Bahaha. Let's just have a fucking war already.

>>7631035
Did you pull that 300 number out your ass? I tried telling my biz friends but they rather stick their head in the sand and think they can actually file like kind exchange. They’ll get a letter in due time.

/BIZ investor model
Bought 1 BTC Jan 01, 2017 for $1,000
Sold 1 BTC Dec 28th, 2017 for $20,000
You owe short term capital gains tax on $19,000 so if you made 32,000 at your wage-cuck job you have to add the 19,000 to that. Congrats you made $51,000 this year! What an awesome year you had. Pay the extra $7,000 like a chad and avoid the ass rape that the IRS is going to do to crypto traders. FYI - Coinbase, Kraken, Polinex, Gemini have all sent your records. Binance is currently negotiating with the U.S. Government.

>>7631307
No it was one of the turbo-tax clones reporting.

>>7631035
>Wants everyone to pay BTC tax so he can get away tax free

>>7631035
Lmao let's go, this year is going to be exciting.

I'm still on the fence about like-kind. It's about $8,000 difference for me. I'm thinking because they passed the law which clarified effective Jan 01 that maybe they wont fuck us retroactively.

>>7631035
You only pay tax when you convert from crypto to fiat.

I do know a shit-tier level admin at the IRS that told me they are going to "aggressively" go after crypto this year.

>>7631035
>you fuckheads are going to get all of us pinched
Confirmed never watched Fast and the Furious. Its called a scramble.

Let the fucking IRS come track me down. Id like to see those tech illiterate retard boomers try

>paying taxes
Fucking Communists

>>7631035
I sustained capital losses eat shit

>taxes
From my cold dead hands, statists.

>>7631035
>Only 300 people have reported their BTC gains this year
source?

>>7631391
>Binance is currently negotiating with the U.S. Government.
nice fud lmfao

99% of binance users don't have any ID tied to the exchange

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sYU_eDMr4xE

>>7632365
*gets arrested for money laundering and has all assets frozen*

heh, nice try kid

>>7631035
Crypto to crypto as taxable + exchanges that delete records after 90 days makes this impossible for people who got in and didn't learn about the tax implications for 90 days.

Full compliance is literally impossible for a good % of us.

>>7632387
>exchanges that delete records after 90 days
like what?

>>7632383
A n
U n k n o w n
A m o u n t
o f
M o n e r o
H a s
B e e n
F r o z e n

>>7631035
I've got until April

>>7632492
yup all that monero sure helped dread pirate robots from being caught ;^)

>>7632559
If they dealt solely in monero they likely never would have been, which is why dnm's are dropping btc and using xmr.

>>7632559
Monero was never traded on SR. Also if DPR used a brainwallet or hid a paper wallet somewhere, those coins were never seized.

>>7632643
I think he was mostly caught because of an email linked to his real identity, although yes XMR is much better. Not just for trading drugs, but also not getting stabbed by Taco Bell niggers who see your net wealth on the blockchain.

>>7632684
>muh brain wallet
that really helps him when he's stuck in a jail cell being raped by niggers, which is your fate too if you try to commit tax evasion for any appreciable sum as a filthy goyim

>>7631035
I tried calculating my taxes the other day and it is so fucked. How do I trace back which coins I was holding and how much they were worth at time X when I cashed amount Y? There's no easy way to do it. So I'm just giving the gov 15-22.5% for each cash out depending on how much I cashed out. Until they make an easy way to do this, that's all they're getting from me.

>>7631035
Come and get it yankee.

>>7631391
>FYI - Coinbase, Kraken, Polinex, Gemini have all sent your records.
How were they sent? Email? Fax? Fedex?

>>7632723
>filthy goyim
kys

The primary take away is its not seizable. You may die in prison and in his case he will, but they won't extract wealth from people doing this.

>>7632753
>go to bitcoin.tax
>import trade records
>add opening positions as needed
>add trades manually if you used a shit tier exchange that doesn't have trade export
>hit calculate button
wow, so hard

>>7632811
Enjoy the rape and AIDs lad!

>>7631035
This is why I only buy long term Hodl coins.
If I'm gonna have to sell/trade it in less than a year then I'm not interested because I want that big fucking tax cut.

Makes raking in crypto gains much simpler. Fuck all that day trading BS.

>>7632838
I'm not Ross, you absolute fucking retard. Nor am I breaking any laws. Way to completely miss the point though.

Hard pass for me dawg

>>7632814
I tried that and cointracking and the numbers were way off. They thought I had 10x as much I actually had.

>>7632894
>tax evasion isn't breaking the law
worse, it's breaking the law with ZERO statue of limitations and a public immutable ledger

>>7631035
Jokes on you I dont have any gains this year

>>7633050
>implies I'm evading taxes
>again missed the point addressing inability to seize digital assets

>>7633113
If you ever make 6 figures from crypto you will be utterly assfucked in any 1st world nation if you attempt to buy anything of note

>>7631490

Coins never qualified for like-kind. Please don't try to claim it anon I don't want you to get audited.

>>7633135
In principle if you had perfect records and a taxjew who said it's ok it wouldn't hurt to try

in practice nobody in crypto has perfect records and taxjews won't sign off on it

>>7633157
I have perfect records.
I record all of my transactions in exact nature.
Fiat->ETH/BTC then again for ETH/BTC-> Other coins
I have recorded, filed and reported every transaction that I have made involving crypto for 2 years because I knew this would come up.

>>7633264
And what price do you use for USD $ of crypto trades?

There is no such thing as perfect records in crypto.

>>7633264
>>7633284
also hope you used FIFO!

>>7633284
According to legal requirements I recorded the price of the crypto I was trading at the time of trade (complete with proof of price and date AND time of trade).
This is not hard to do.

>>7632900
You probably do actually owe that much actually. Did you trade last year and take a loss in January?

>>7631391
How about Bittrex?

>>7633305
There's no law that says you have to use FIFO.

I paid my taxes. A lot of taxes.

>gains
haha

>>7631035
Srs what portion of turbo tax do you add crypto? That’s what I’m using and I had a hard time figuring it out
I only have Coinbase transactions

>>7631391
Anyone have sauce on the exchanges sending records to the government?

I need this for a friend

>>7631035
>not having plans to game the financial system
take a look at this abiding citizen

>>7633334
No, what was the fiat price/change in basis of say, your BTC<->ETH trades

>>7633345
I checked, and they were counting my canceled trades as actual trades. At least cointracking did this. So I'm just going to give the gov what I said before and if they want more, then I'll give them more, but I think they'll be happy with what they get because of the amount of people not filing.

>>7633375
>he wants to get audited and lose
You do not have specific identification.

>>7631035
but anon don't you know that 120% of people are LOSING MONEY in crypto?
we're the 0.000000000000000000000000000001% of people making ANYTHING off of it

If I take an unknown amount of monero out of my polo account and make an account on an exchange that doesn't need ID, will the govt be able to find me (aside from when I would cash out)?

>>7631035
YES GOY PAY YOUR TAXES

>land of the free

lmao

>>7632838
I see we all finally realise the ZOG does not want your money as much as it wants to see those who dare to defy it suffer.

>>7633589
>yuros have the audacity to say this while paying far more in total taxation (higher income & capital gains taxes, PLUS LMFAO 21% FUCKING SALES TAX MY FUCKING SIDES)

I assume you are not a subhuman shitskinned thirdie after all. My god that would be embarrassing!

>>7631391
Capital gains are not regular income. Report them w/ a form 1099

>>7633516
Yes I do. If I bought 10 Bitcoins initially, sent 8 to a cold storage wallet and sent 2 to an exchange wallet why should I use FIFO? It would INACCURATELY say that the 8 coins that were just sitting in cold storage were being sold.

>>7633664
>anything that isnt a burger is a yurofag

fucking hell, the absolute state

>>7633665
Short term capital gains (<1yr, e.g. as mentioned in that post) is taxed at income rates dumbass

>>7632760
usps buddy

>>7633577
You want to move it from the exchange to a wallet, then to another wallet, then to the new exchange for maximum plausible deniablility. Suffice to say, it's not fun getting raped by tx fees, but its more fun than getting raped by niggerstein in prison.

>>7633696
found a subhuman third worlder.

what shithole do you live in anon

or are you too embarrassed to name it? that happens quite a bit with thirdos

>>7633589
This is the kind of thing that pisses me off,
We call it the land of the free and yet have:
>income taxes
>property taxes
>ridiculous building and zoning laws
>homeowner's associations
>lawyers
>a body of law that needs lawyers (they were banned from the courtroom originally)
>fees and registration costs to start businesses
>licenses needed for trading others' money
>brokers needed for trading directly on stock market unless you have $1,000,000
>licenses needed for things other than home consumer products
>the whole west being owned by the government
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

Sometimes I wish one could just sign a waiver anywhere they went and simply take responsibility on oneself for whatever happens

>>7633741
>lists things that all first world countries have, and 99% of them have far worse then the USA

oh no!

>>7633741
m8 is we didn't have HOAs the suburbs would be over run with shit

>>7631035
>pay
>taxes

>>7631035
sorry irs but you can't tax another nation's currency and kekistan is a tax free nation

>>7632463
liqui

It's February 13th, you retarded faggot. Normies don't have W-2s and 1099s yet. Who do do you think is even filing already? Anyone with gains will wait until April anyway. This the dumbest thread on 4chins right now.

>>7633757
Doesn't mean they're good

>>7633769
I understand this, and there is room for small communities with strict laws within an overall libertarian society, but shit LIKE this is just everywhere
It's as if you can't go anywhere or do anything without there being a 'proper, legal' way to do it that you can be punished for if the law wants to get you for something
>at least we don't have to sign in to each new town we go to, like yuros

>>7631543
>my dad works at steam, you're getting vacbanned
sure you do

>>7631035
Only a moron would sell until long term cap gains.

>>7633813
Gains in Q4 2017 are due Jan 15th

Look up estimated taxes

there's a reason your W2 withholds

>>7633843
>>7633813
hahahah holy fucking shit i forgot a lot of you made trades in Q1-Q3

you owe even more in fees now

>>7633813
https://www.fastcompany.com/40530398/bitcoin-and-taxes-is-anyone-reporting-cryptocurrency-trades-in-their-2017-returns?partner=feedburner

Lol yeah people who actually work already have w-2s and 1099s you retarded neeet faggot

This article says it’s ALREADY being mass underteported

>>7633834
>buy bch at 600$
>dont sell at 4k because anon thinks that'd make you a moron

>>7633867
If you don't sell you have nothing to report
If you sell at a loss and don't report you're just taking money from yourself.

>>7633834
>missing out on good coins because you're locked in for 1 year which is a decade in crypto
shaking my head

>>7633757
Just goes to show how bad marxism fucked the world by giving niggers a platform to parasite gibs from and women to vote for equality of outcome across the world, more quickly in places that weren't founded in the spirit against these notions.

>>7633882
Hard fork coins are quite possibly income and taxed at the rate of the first opening sale on an exchange.

Yes, you could owe full income for all bitcoin forks, even if you never touch the coin

It's the ultimate weapon the IRS holds over everyone's head.

>>7631035
Pay my taxes on what you dumb cunt??

You only pay taxes if you realize your gains by converting back into FIAT like a dumb fucking idiot.

Either take out a SALT loan for cash, or wait until you have your 2018/2019 'fuck you money' gains and THEN pay.

Anyone, aside from those with financial emergencies, who pulled anything out so far other than reinvesting into more crypto, is a dumb day who deserves to be poor.

Besides, one day in the next few years, your crypto will be able to be used in lieu of FIAT and you will also be able to pay your taxes with your crypto.

BTFO tax-fearing faggots

>>7633928
False

>>7633899
Lol if you hodl but if you make any type of crypto to crypto trades you have to report it what don’t you faggots get

>>7634006
It's not realized gains you dummie.

Besides, Trumps tax plan doesn't affect crypto until 2019.

BTFO

>>7633928
The newest tax bill cleared this up and no, this is wrong
It is actually unrealistically retarded, every trade that you do is counted as a taxable event, and you must calculate the dollar worth of your transaction and see if there is a gain or loss from your last one

I made 100k cashed out and only reported my coinbase tax form and ended up paying 17k. Left all the shitcoin exchanges out of it and nothing happened. 2017 is like kind.

>>7631391
el goblino
>>7631518
la luz extinguido
>>7632383
el mounstro de las americas
>>7632492
kek

>>7634033
It is realized gains

You buy 1 ETH at $10. Now it’s worth 1k and you buy 200k link

You pay tax on $990

>>7634006

the fact that we can do this on exchanges with no verification required based in other countries and they have no way of knowing we traded it and they can do fuck all about it

anybody who would actually report this shit is a fucking queer. it's about as dumb as calling to report your illegal peer to peer movie and music downloads and asking how much you owe in money or jail time for it

>>7633487
I also have perfect records, I use a daily average from a reputable exchange to find FMV as per requirements.

>>7634093
Lol they will no you traded because you bought was 10 eth on Coinbase at 2k and suddenly you’re trying to cash out 50 eth at 100k

>>7634093
you're just trading paying now for paying more later and risking tax fraud charges

you didn't actually think you could cash out without the government being well aware of it, did you anon?

>>7631035
Oh no, the irs is gonna find my 5$ gain

Only 300 morons gave their money up

>>7634093
They don't need to be able to see your trades, it is merely determined from credits debits and balance of your account. By not recording your trades all you did was not follow the rules

>>7634142
this - exactly

and surprise NEETs - burden of proof is *ON YOU* to show where the coins came from

and don't forget it's a

PUBLIC
FUCKING
LEDGER
DIPSHITS

>>7634163
>i-i didn't know! don't fine me massively, freeze my assets or jail me for obvious tax evasion
not how it works

>>7631307
>and think they can actually file like kind exchange.

Tell me why one cannot file like like-kind?

>>7634142
>>7634150

lmao just sell on localbitcoins

>>7631518
In America we have to pay crypto to crypto conversions as well

>>7634062
>2017 is like kind.
Enjoy the audit

>>7634104
>reputable exchange
which one?
Why that one?
Where do you get the *exact* daily average value?

>>7634175

buy on coinbase, launder through monero to binance, make trades, launder through monero to another wallet

wow so hard

>>7634185
>sell on a fed honeypot that now requires KYC
>or run the risk of being robbed at gunpoint
wew lad

>>7634220
>cash out
>don't have records of where gains came from
>get fucked

>>7631035
I crypto cuz I hate Jews

>>7634179
people like you don't deserve the truth, just try it and see what happens

I heard that miners pay self employment taxes. Anyone know much about that?

>>7634195
Although you're right, its not like they have the technology to track everyone down right now anyway.

>>7634295
taxes are the main reason I don't mine, daytrade, or hold PoS coins, it's a literal nightmare

>>7634385
eh I'll throw them some money in a rough estimation and I'm sure they'll be fine. What's the worst that could happen? They found out I clean toilets and then go home and sit at my computer all day?

>>7634385
trades are easy, literally jsut use a non-shit exchange like binance and import to software

pos/mining just cash out on a regular basis and take the price at the transaction date in the blockchain

>>7634307
They don't have to. Underreporting income has a 6 year statute of limitations and fraud (technically even not reporting 1$ is fraud - if they want you, they will get you - and if you make money in crypto they will come after you later) has no statute of limitation.

just wait for eosfinex to drop and trade on decentralized exchanges. don't cash out until after you've renounced and have your golden visa

>>7634411
>>7634435
you also owe income tax on all mined/staked amounts at the time you receive them and I don't especially like filling up and validating 1000 pages of form 8949

>>7634062
You do realize that like-kind exchanges have insanely complicated reporting requirements right?

>>7634596
just average the price times the rate at which you generate it

you only have to report the total sum on your taxes, you keep the other shit in case of audit

>>7634629
so you're one of those retards. good luck in april m8

>>7634200
What you want is the best price, what you do not want is to look like a larping faggot saying a website made by yourself showed bit coins at $0 every day. You could for example say you used gdax because they are regulated, or bitfinex because they do the most volume, or whatever sensible reason you have for whatever exchange you picked.

What I actually do is ask the software to find the prices for me, with everything properly prepared and balanced I don't really expect them to have any reason to come after me over this reasonable method. What they could do is adjust it all to the worst prices and send it back forcing me to bargain for a middle ground, but really there won't be all that much in it anyway and this is more the kind of shit you can expect if they think you're fucking with them.

>>7634596
nah I don't care that much, I'll just save when and how much I cashed out, add it up, then list it as self employment income.

>>7634606
it's not too complicated, merely a 3 page form that needed to be filled out and submitted for each trade you wish to apply for like-kind treatment on

>>7634678
I have a tax attorney and he said i was basically the most conservative client he's ever had.

Go fuck yourself retard

wtf are shapeshift users supposed to do?

>>7634772
record it as a trade on shapeshift exchange

i used tax free settlement money I got from a lawsuit with the state I am exempt

>>7634691
Fair point, I'm just being a pedantic asshole. But the fact there is no _one_ exchange is annoying to me.

I'm using bitcoin.tax at the moment for estimate calculations, but i want to double check it against my own numbers. Are you puling exchange information via an API or is there a time series available in csv or other format?

>>7634783
they don’t make a record of trades you can’t even sign up for it

>>7631035
I owe $24K and only have $11K cash. That's nothing to do with crypto which fuck them on that.

>>7634792
no_one_exchange is very good because it gives you the flexibility to sway prices in your favor, you know who the big ones are, just take a sample of random dates average them out and see if they're close enough, use 1 day candles and average the open / close or something
>>7634811
well you have a record of the input and the output, so that's the trade

>>7633924
The IRS admin guy I know is referring to the Bitcoin Fork (BCH) as the "Head Shot". I didnt know what he ment until just now.

>>7634882
nice larp, even people as paranoid as I am don't usually believe this. tax professionals have weighed in and said worst case it's capital gains when realized with a 0$ basis

>>7633700
no, they are taxed at short term capital rates as opposed to long term...

There is ONE short term capital gains tax rate, not 7 different ones like income tax...

Something that can drop 80 percent in a couple weeks can not be considered realized gains. It's too volatile. It's fucking internet funny money until you trade it for cold hard cash. Don't give me this shit about crypto to crypto being taxable. Trading one shitcoin to another is not realized gains. But have fun selling your coins to fork over money to the irs because you fell for a fud meme

>>7634949
>Short-term capital gains are taxed at the investor's ordinary income tax rate and are defined as investments held for a year or less before being sold.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States

what are you smoking son

>>7632684
>I think he was mostly caught because of an email linked to his real identity
Ross was caught using NSA mass surveillance and the email story was parallel construction. Prove me wrong.

>>7634954
It can and is anon, your opinion on it means nothing in reality

>>7634991
Probably, but he still got caught

Just move to Puerto Rico. 4% income tax and no capital gains. Join that hippie crypto rico cult while there

>>7633722
australia

>35 posts by this ID

l m a o whats wrong with you?

>>7635034
>he fell for the 'le move to PR ;^)' meme

Ten years.

Ten years you have to live there BEFORE you can try this

Maybe satoshi will show up in the next 2 years after having lived there long enough.

>>7635057
>he's an ausnigger

So I cant select "like kind" on bitcointax.io calculate and export into turbo-tax. It doesnt do all that complicated three form shit for you?

>>7635034
They're going to be so fucked when they find out they have to be a bona-fide Puerto Rican resident for 10 consecutive years before they can sell their investment under Puerto Rican tax rules.

>>7635104
no you fucking cannot

We need to begin FUD over at /V/ because forcing taxes on crypto is identical to forcing gamers to pay taxes on their gains as well.

>>7635057

clearly this is an IRS employee trying to scare people into giving away their shit

you wouldn't download a car

>>7635104
the 'like kind' button on that website basically serves as an audit request to the IRS

>>7635134
Where else did he get the 300 people info from. He works at the fucking IRS.

>>7635134
>>7635184
evasion is up to you goys, but considering you don't even know the fundamentals you aren't going to be very good at it, you basically just have to hope no one checks

>>7635184
I didn't post the 300 thing dipshit

I'm just a paranoid autist, but i'm also right most of the time.

>>7635281
this, /biz/ can't even hold a conversation with a person at a bar, how the fuck do you think you're going to pull off tax evasion with a public ledger technology?

maximum dunning kruger effect

>>7635281
Its not evasion when you pay your fair share. Coin to coin transactions must be fought to the death as it sets the precedent that all digital goods will be taxed the same way. I refuse to allow you fuckers to begin taxing my MMO trades. You will LOSE THIS FIGHT. Gamers will not allow it.

>>7635321
> I didn't post the 300 thing dipshit

I meant the OP

>>7635364
oh ok, well no offence but you're not very good at 4channing because you quoted a chain that was talking about me

>>7635338
Oh I forgot all about you gamer motherfuckers. You guys going to get fucked right along with us.

>>7631035
>trying to arrest the whole world
yeah okay

>>7635065
I read you have to spend minimum 183 days/year there. If true use some of those protected gains to buy a place in Florida so you don't have to actually live in in bumfuck PR. But then you have to live in bumfuck Florida so there's that

>>7635364
Here's the article.

>>7635486
Fuck. the market is going to tank for the next months as normies sell.

also sounds like independant cryptocurrency trader brandon williams is fucking retarded for not using software to do the calculations

>>7635433
No fucking way I am going to write down my loot box earnings!!!!!!! I guy recently sold one a CS:GO skin for 60k!!! You crypto tards are going to fucking make me pay taxes for Runescape REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>7635533
>crypto will cause gotards and other subhuman gamblers to get fucked

B A S E D
A
S
E
D

I'm glad we are helping make life more miserable for other people on this website

>>7635486
The reason they are not paying is because its not enforceable. It will never happen no matter what you fuckers do. Nobody owes money until they cash out.

I literally cannot. I was up way big on dec 31 but have since lost all my gains. I couldn’t pay the taxes if I tried.

>>7635091
Says the 52%er lmao

>>7635575
This has never been a consideration for the IRS.

>>7635552
ITS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN!!! DONT FUCKING PAY THEM SHIT!!! RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>7635636
someone should make this with /biz/ and /vg/

>>7635570
>Not enforceable

Oh my, you are very young.

>>7635621
They consider it now. Because you fuckers are BONED. You will never get taxes until shit is realized. You cannot be allowed to tax people on unrealized gains.

I know you are all butt hurt about your shitty government that cant keep up with technology and you are having to come to grips with not being able to enforce anything because you are all fucking retards. I highly suggest you get fucked. You are not going to fuck with my gaming.

>>7635677
Its not enforceable. They will begin attacking innocent people.

Taxes on digital monopoly money? You guys are joking right?

What's next? Trying to tell me you're paying taxes on your WoW action house trades?

Fucking tax memes.

>>7635575
You're literally in debt to the IRS then.

>>7635717
Why do you bring up this realized shit, it is realized when you dispose of it for anything, realized has never had anything to do with 'cashing out' faggotry. It literally does not matter how you feel about it

>>7635655
Put a bag of world of warcraft gold and maybe a dragonlore.

>>7635717
This, those two and maybe four other fuckers will end up paying on each trade. The irs is fucking themselves out of the cut with this. Most people would follow through on paying when they cash out and it would also be enforceable. Everybody wins.

>>7635812
>Why do you bring up this realized shit, it is realized when you dispose of it for anything, realized has never had anything to do with 'cashing out' faggotry. It literally does not matter how you feel about it

Either it does or it does not become money. claiming that it became money when it was a coin for another coin

IS

A

LIE

You are full of shit. REALITY IS VERY HARD FOR YOU ISNT IT!!! Trading my Team fortress 2 hat for some keys IS NOT A FUCKING REALIZED GAIN YOU FAGGOT!!!!

KYS!!!!!!!!!!

>>7635792
It's all fud, taxes on crypto trades is a fucking meme

>>7635792
some day when you'll actually make money you'll realize why paying your taxes is the best option by far

>income under ~10-50k from crypto - who cares lol
>income between ~100k-10M from crypto - pay or face jailtime and huge fines
>income over 10M or so : ok maybe now it might be worth looking into tax cheat methods but remember that you'll basically be stuck living in the third world for the rest of your life, and never will be able to travel to the US and will risk extradition

Nobody should pay taxes on unrealized gains on digital goods. GAMERS UNITE AND FIGHT THIS EVIL!! They want your MMO money!! They want you to pay even when you never made actual money!! They want you to GIVE THEM YOU VALUABLE BTC AND ETH!!!!!

>>7635874
realized does not mean became fiat currency. lucky for you nobody gives a shit about your fucking team fortress 2 hat, the focus is going to on the max value cryptocuck kills for the next few years

>>7635986
On principle it is. And those max value cryptocucks are our SHIELD AGAINST YOU!!!!!! We will donate endless amounts of money to those cucks so they can fight legal battles that never fucking end until you fuckers give up. We have unlimited money!! WE ARE GAMERS!!!!!!!!!

>>7635874
No. Sorry. You are wrong.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

>Does a taxpayer have gain or loss upon an exchange of virtual currency for other property?

>A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

That disproves the "Taxes are only when you cash out" meme / wishful thinking right there. They tax on FAIR MARKET VALUE.

>>7633741
Jews did this, and that's why they must die.

>>7636104
> Hey I got this 3000 year old book that says the creator of the universe is a zombie who turns water into wine instantly.

> That proves the "Our lord and savior Jesus Christe" meme / wishful thinking right there. They tax on FAIR MARKET VALUE.

Its almost like when somebody writes it down it becomes reality I guess. huh imagine that. Writing something down suddenly makes it 100% unfoulable truth and totally not impossible in any way at all. Yep once you write it down it solves all problems when it comes into practice as well!

I'm a 20 year old NEET. I used some money my parents gave me to start day trading crytpo. I had NEVER paid taxes before in my life. I hate to say this guys but it's not a meme. The IRS has been calling all week and my parents just tell them I don't live here. What the FUCK do I do? I have nothing other than my crypto and I haven't cashed out.. I might have to go down guns blazin....

DO NOT REPORT CRYPTO GAINS!!! DON'T FALL FOR THESE LIES!!!

>>7636104

Did you know in some states it's illegal to carry an ice cream cone in your back pocket? Non-enforced laws are useless in practice

>>7636276
Lol wow, look what you've resorted to.

I just shoved in your face what the IRS says is a taxable gain.

>>7636350
They're going to enforce taxes.

>>7631035
Since this is a tax thread I got a question. Let's say I hold some shitcoin for a period of over a year and it actually moons and I get a substantial amount of money. The only way to turn that into fiat is by converting it to BTC or ETH and then to fiat. Would that count as long term capital gains since I held the original coin for a period of over a year, or would it count as short term since I changed it to another coin and immediately withdrew it as fiat?

>>7636431
They put people in jail for having magic the gathering cards? Man it must be rough being a MTG gangsta

>>7636388
I made a simple point. reality is reality, you can write down anything you want but it wont change the situation. You cant tax people for having a WoW account. Its not going to happen.

>>7631391
you're so retarded it hurts

>>7631688
not my proudest fap

>>7636520
What happens when you eventually convert to valuable fiat and they ask where the money came from? Or are you just never going back to fiat or spend the bit coins?

>>7636520
How does it not change the situation? You say that only crypto to fiat trades are taxed by the IRS, and the fucking IRS says that all transactions with a gain in FMV are taxed. How are you right in that situation?

By the logic here anyone can troll a massive number of people by pumping and dumping coins right before January first.

Take any coin and pump it to like 3x its value then dump it the following day. The IRS is going to have this happen just so they can make extra money off you.

>>7636603
All I want is my digital assets to be treated like they always have. I don't want my WoW gold to cause me fucking stress you fucking retards!!!

People aren't going to report anything and the IRS is going to flip out like they have the for past few years.
Crypto is about avoiding taxes.
In 2-3 years, there will be an option where you don't need to ever cash out. Monaco is already a step in that direction.

Why would I want my money going towards the continued impoverishment and slavery of my people?

Taxes are immoral

>>7636627
You cant expect tax money, until the money becomes money. You cant claim anything you fucking want counts as "earnings" and expect money from it.

It cannot work that way. You don't have the right to just start claiming anything and everything you want is not suddenly a taxable event. We fought a war over this shit and we will do it again you fucking moron.

This is a form of taxation without representation.

>>7636673
>>7636737
But it never mattered what you "wanted".

>>7636745
I don't expect it, the fact is that the IRS EXPECTS IT. "You cannot, it cannot" BUT THEY DO.

>>7636759
>But it never mattered what you "wanted".
You are the one claiming what you WANT.

I am telling you what it is. If there was no money involved then you cant expect money from nothing. You cant tax digital assets this way, it cannot work. We cannot allow it to happen.

>>7636737
Who are your people?

>>7633741
Leftists will defend all of these things and more

They want us all to live in poverty

Nah

>>7636795
No, not one claim was what about what I personally want. I only gave you a document from the IRS that stated what their rules are.

>>7635526
>Fuck. the market is going to tank for the next months as normies sell
Why do you believe this?

>>7636728
An option where you don't ever need to cash out doesn't do anything. Crypto is actually a step backwards from legacy tax evasion, a huge part of which is literally already cashed out untraceable fiat cash.

You can easily go and spend it on extra curry on food night, but you cannot easily buy anything big with it without having to explain where you got it. If you don't have the infrastructure in place to support your explanation, which you won't because you are incapable, you will literally be begging to prove you were trading because you'll be under investigation as a dealer or some shit.

>>7636843
>No, not one claim was what about what I personally want.

You are the IRS, you are arguing from that perspective. In this example you are telling us what you want to see happen.

But the reality is that it cannot work that way. You cannot implement that plan. IT WONT FUCKING WORK. Literally nobody is going to report crypto gains. You wont be allowed to tax video games like you fuckers want to.

Also this is going to destroy the democrat party even more than it already is. You do realize the implications of this politically. We are already looking at an extremely conservative next generation. Oh lets see how conservative they get after you fuckers start expecting blood from stone like this.

I never expected that conservatism libertarianism would become so rampant. And it would happen because of gamers too.

You fuckers are are going to all lose your jobs. so hard.

>>7636745
I don't think these jew fucks making this thread understand. So many people are going to go out guns blazing over this if the IRS actually tries to enforce this bullshit. This will create a civil war.

>>7636932
>If you don't have the infrastructure in place to support your explanation, which you won't because you are incapable, you will literally be begging to prove you were trading because you'll be under investigation as a dealer or some shit.

They will begin hitting innocent people. dirty wallets or god knows what else. The IRS will flail and fail and fail and flail tripping over itself and the only people it attacks will be the honest or innocent ones.

>>7631069
yes, there's a reporting limit below which you are not required to report

but long term capital gains are free below 37K

>>7636993
I'm not the IRS, I was just correcting your false claim that taxes are only levied when you cash out. There's no "plan" to be "implemented". That's already what the rules are. Whether you think you can get away with complying or not is a different matter.

>>7637102
> I was just correcting your false claim that taxes are only levied when you cash out.

Its the only possible outcome, what part of the argument have you been paying attention to. There is no other outcome. Anything else and we will be paying taxes for any video game that uses blockchain tech, any social media that uses blockchain tech which we eventually just start paying taxes on twitter followers and fucking CS:GO skins.

It ends now. Full stop.

I'm so sick of these tax cuck threads. Go ahead and bend over for the IRS. This isn't Wesley Snipes tax fraud. This is a revolution.

>>7637146
No, the outcome is that they're going to subpoena all exchanges they can eventually because of non-reporters. And everyone with unreported trades will be put on a list potential tax evaders.

>>7637228

too bad they can't do that when we're all using decentralized exchanges built on top on blockchains

>>7637228
>No, the outcome is that they're going to subpoena all exchanges they can eventually because of non-reporters. And everyone with unreported trades will be put on a list potential tax evaders.

Wont happen. Because it wont be allowed. You cannot tax people until its converted to fiat. There are no other possible outcomes.

Unless you want people to start paying taxes for facebook likes that is. Because that is pretty much the direction the IRS is going with this.

>>7637297
But you already didn't. We all know 90% of /biz/ already used bittrex and verified their ID to transact with more than a tiny amount of BTC.

>>7631035
Why? You only have to pay taxes on actual monetary income. Crypto is just fantasy money that you will never be able to convert into real money again.

>>7637348
Maybe you fail to realize that this can go on for many years. And the fight to prevent taxes on twitter followers is a big part of the evolution of the technocracy.

>>7637325
They have to tax people in fiat even if it's not converted to fiat. That's the whole foundation of our fiat / taxation system. That people are forced to use fiat to pay taxes. Think about it. If that were not in place there's gigantic loopholes in place that could destroy the whole taxation/fiat system. For example you could totally circumvent taxation by having your salary paid in silver and doing all transaction in barter for silver.

>be me
>live in Poland
>taxes on every trade including crypto to crypto
>impossible to calculate
>taxes way higher than my gains
>can't prove my original investment was my "cost" because wire transfer record is not enough so I get taxed on that money I had before also
literally about to kill myself
meanwhile italy 0 tax, all other european countries have reasonable policies
I had no idea what I was getting into

I havent paid taxes in 20 years. Not about to start now. I will blow away any glow in the dark alphabet agency nigger that comes for me, or die trying.

ITT: Smug libertarians erect by the fact they will hide their 5k of gains from Uncle Sam this year.

If you're a real crypto winner, and cashed out, it's pretty much impossible to hit ur cash ;)

>>7637415
>They have to tax people in fiat even if it's not converted to fiat. That's the whole foundation of our fiat / taxation system.

Well time to change it, I am not paying taxes on my WoW gold. Not happening. I wont be going to jail either. This is the stupidest fucking "debate" ever right now.

>>7633466
Just coinbase
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/29/coinbase-internal-revenue-service-taxation/

They will go after other american exchanges before they go after chinese ones.

>>7637439
oh, did I mention
>local exchange I used (obviously they have my ID and everything) working on taxation papers for all users they will probably share with government because they are currently being prosecuted for crypto trading even though they didn't break any law (cause none were in place so far)
government in my country recently taxed gambling (only 10% but it's about to get worse) and hey are really trying to kill crypto
I fucking hate this place, I didn't choose to be born here nor did I vote for this government made of thieves

>>7637452
im sure y'all anons will rant on an internet forum and not do jack shit actually creating a movement offline as with every other internet of things.

>>7637452
>This is the stupidest fucking "debate" ever right now.

Yeah but all the stupid is coming from you. You're probably right, you probably won't go to jail because you most likely don't even have 1k in the game and are actually unironically just playing with Wow gold. I have 1 million, have traded gdax and taxes aren't an option for me.

retards, unless you have bought property or have heaps of cash in the bank earning interest then you will not get flagged for an audit.

Anyone who pays tax on less than 100k is a cuck soyboy.

>>7631035
>paying taxes
You like sucking the jew's cock?

>>7637621
Obviously you do cuz you will never do jack shit about it cept whining to anons on 4chan. All talk no action GTFO

>>7637566
>I have 1 million, have traded gdax and taxes aren't an option for me.

this isnt going away in one year. This is going to continue forever. Thats why I draw the conclusion that WoW gold will be taxed. Because in 5 years there will be a larger number of games using the tech and the lines will have been blurred to a point where the average person understands all digital assets are basically a commodity.

If we allow the IRS to try and enforce this now with no pushback. YOU WILL be paying taxes on Facebook likes. Because those likes will probably be tied to Facebook bucks. This is a serious fucking problem and it has to be stopped. There does need to be a movement and the movement is easy to enact. We need to speed up the number of good games that use crypto. We need social media that uses crypto to increase as well. Once everyone is tied into it then they will be forced to go after EVERYONE.

>>7635112
Hey dummy I think you can buy an established business there, fund it with the crypto and then let it sit for a year and then cash out tax free

I have lost all my crypto gains...bought monero with everything and have sent it to my paper wallet and then a thunder stroke and killed my PC forever. Private key? My dog ate it...i would have paid taxes but i have nothing left :(

>>7637707
Just so we're clear you're talking about money laundering right? Because if you fund it "above the table" with crypto that would be realizing your gain and incur capital gains as if they were realized in the US because you were a US resident for any of the past 10 years.

>>7637442
Amen.

>>7637439
Stop larping you losers, you can’t be taxed on cyrpto because crypto is not worth anything.

>>7637807
>Stop larping you losers, you can’t be taxed on cyrpto because crypto is not worth anything.
wish I was larping
I'm legit horrified, you have no idea how it is to live in post-communist country
the government wants to eat you alive, they have so many people working for IRS-equivalent it's rare not to get an audit

>>7637675
You're right no action. I never pay taxes, so TAX ACTION

>>7637683
I literally have no problem with this timeline. Games, consoles, TVs, fucking couch all become an expense. If I win a good commodity and can profit from it I have no problem paying the CGT on that

>>7637442
IRS WILL SEND A SCARY LETTER IF YOU DONT PAY PLS SIR CONTACT THEM ASAP AND THEY WONT BE SO MEAN

>>7637856
Next american generation is going to be massively conservative.

>>7638048
If the process involves having to pay attention to the USD value of every item I get when I get it when I play an MMO then its a complete disaster.

>>7638090
Please save Canada it's hell here as a conservative white person.

Or at least save me, I keep trying to get enough for an investor visa but it's hard with so much tax.

>>7637856
Monopoly money is not real money, it’s the same reason you don’t have to pay taxes when you trade Pokemon cards. You cryptokiddies could have invested into a 401k like us sane, rational people but you insist on putting money(real money) into something that is worthless. How many times do we have to say this YOU CAN’T CASH OUT! This delusion is sickening, it is sickening... If you want a good return why not invest like Warren Buffet and buy Coca Cola shares, oh who am I kidding of course you won’t. You “people” are a degenerate lot and it is millenials like yourselves who love to blame people who are older and wiser than you for your poor life choices. Maybe one day you so called “investors” will pull yourself up by the bootstraps, make something of the pathetic thing you call a life and join us in the land of the living and not be filthy NEETS, but sadly I do not see this happening any time soon. Good luck out there buddy, you’re gonna need it.

Taxation is theft. If a tax collector( a thief) sets foot on my property I will shoot him dead, pull out his teeth, then feed his body to the hogs.

>>7638165
That's a bit rude

>>7634811

You can do an API pull for shapeshift with postman. So if they want proof the trades and coins are yours you can provide it. I suggest you familiarize yourself with it.

>>7631035
if you pay your taxes how does this threaten you?

>>7638163
7/10 boomerposting
>great use of intermittent caps
>401k and bootstraps mentioned
>coca cola shares
however
>cryptokiddies instead of your generation
>you can't cash out
>degenerate
>NEETS
your age is showing anon. add in some roth IRA shilling, a rant about invisible chuck e cheese tokens, and a few personal threats and insults and you will be golden

>>7638195
careful anon, not giving 80% of your income to the democrats is pretty racist these days. even the founding fathers knew that diversity was our strength - the slavetrading tyrants. why do you hate america?

>>7638147
Not a disaster at all, devs will implement an automated system to update in real time your cloud account as well as the copy on the IRS blockchain. Ideally, like a paycheck, the tax would come out at some point before you so much as get to touch the money.

The downside of this timeline is if you're making a full time living off vidya memes you'll basically be taking a pay cut. As I mentioned though for the mere hardcore gamer it means a tax deduction on our machines

>>7638226
Honestly anon nobody wants the fucking headache of an audit, it can be a lot of fruitless work. and even having done everything by the book there's still the risk of getting pinged on some bullshit just so they haven't completely wasted their time. I'm not really mad though because of the easy profits, would be fucking shattered if i was at a loss though.

>>7638163
>You cryptokiddies could have invested into a 401k
>401k
let us know how your 401k is doing at the end of this year.

>>7638576
>Not a disaster at all, devs will implement an automated system to update in real time your cloud account as well as the copy on the IRS blockchain. Ideally, like a paycheck, the tax would come out at some point before you so much as get to touch the money.

The inability to calculate taxes on digital gains is the main problem holding all of this back. There is no way to do it in a fair way.

How exactly will the devs withhold the correct amount during the transaction based on if an asset will or will not go up in value ahead of time. lol

Its fucking impossible dumbass. Its IMPOSSIBLE.

>>7631035
>you are one of them

Im just going to pick a reasonable number and send it to them. I cant be bothered to track and record and do all this shit. If they dont like it they can send me their opinion. tfw jewing the jews, even though im giving them my money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk1kX-Tdi1Y

Two cave men. One hands the other a rock.
The IRS shows up demanding the cave man pay fiat for the capital gains on that rock!!!

You pay tax on what you cash out to fiat

>put in $1000 on crypto
>your crypto is now woth $10,000
>pay tax on the 9k gain

done. fuck you guys and your IRS FUD.

>paying into a dying system

>>7639465
Even though thats not the right way to do it, I will probably just do it that way because so many others will.

>>7635887

Or move to puerto rico asap.

>>7635002
How the fuck are they going to do anything if you are HODLing?

>>7636282
nice larp

>I haven't cashed out

Then how does the IRS know you have assets?

>>7635887
Poor guy is supressed and brainwashed by his country. Keep paying taxes, i need some free health care anyway and my kids need some new pair of shoes.

>>7640674
They can't and they wont. You need to cash out first, afterwards you pay your taxes on every trade. But the IRS wants money now and you are going to jail anyway, so who cares.

>>7637571
Crypto is probably the hardest thing in the world for the IRS to audit and seize I'm not sure why these idiots think the IRS will try and get their 10k in Internet money.

>>7640809
>The hardest thing
That's an understatement right here, when you take in account that you can destroy your blockchain foot prints with multiple ways

>>7640941
right, this doesn't make any sense.

Unless you are planning on cashing out and spending lavishly the IRS will likely have no idea you have crypto but also no possible way of seizing your crypto.

I'm not paying shit fuck a mother nigger