/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>7282522
why are people dumb and cash out to buy gold or other assets that are only profitable if you hold them 10 years?

>>7282599
>why are people dumb and cash out to buy gold

Why would you realistically buy gold or silver when you could just buy LINK and FUN kek

>>7282599
gold is for boomers what is tether for you

>>7282635
Im serious, whats the point in going from the most risky to the in the long run most secure asset. If you hold gold short time you will make huge loss due to inflation. There are way better assets like bonds to make small but secure gains.

>>7282711
Probably because we're not talking about $1,000 - $5,000 here. We're talking about upwards of $50,000 - $1MM that someone would want to put into a balanced portfolio outside of crypto.

Would love to be able to afford to drop $50,000 on LINK right now though lol.

>>7282599
The precious metals are the only asset class (up until the invention of crypto) that are no one else's liabilities - this gives them great stability as they are not susceptible to losses in economic downturns or times of uncertainty. I don't know where your getting your opinion that you must hodl for 10 years, in times of economic trouble gold goes on massive bull runs and we are certainly approaching serious turmoil. Pic related is Gold's 1970s bull run, also go and have a look at golds 2000 - 2013 bullrun, we are now entering the third great bull run.

>>7282747
>2013
2011 sorry

What kind of gold would you get if you had budget of $15k?

>>7282747
The independence argument is not completely true but I get what you mean. In general the gold price is an accumulation of mining and other gold company types though so it depends a bit on others too. The speculation of a new bull run is understandable too, it's been 5 bad years for gold, but I must say in regard of the tech bubble it also could suffer some loss because nowadays many people invest in gold also because of its industrial usage. Metals like aluminium that are necessary for real estate are better at the moment in my opinion. Sure gold could boom soon enough but at average you dont make much more profit by holding it short time as you could by going into stocks. The stock market may crash but it still has an average of 8% each year. Blue chips or well managed companies face recession very well.

>>7282819
Depends what country you live in, I think in the USA you have to pay capital gains on Gold. In the UK Gold Britannia and Sovereign coins are capital gains tax free so I always buy them, if its different in your country then just choose the form you like most, but I suggest bullion coins

>>7282522
>following a "school" of economics
There aren't "schools" of physics, nor "schools" of mathematics. This is why nobody takes economists seriously.

>>7282522
>I wrote my dissertation
And that makes you think you know shit?
Wow.

>OP

>>7282932
Economics isnt a science, it is a social studies...chill.

>>7282901
>Metals like aluminium that are necessary for real estate are better at the moment in my opinion.
Things like aluminium, copper etc are to linked to the state of the macro economy for my liking.
>Sure gold could boom soon enough but at average you dont make much more profit by holding it short time as you could by going into stocks.
first of all, do not go any where stocks at the moment. Gold is the lowest risk investment, I also see it as having the highest upside potential. In my view investing in gold is like being given a free spin in the casino, if I loose I don't really loose, if I win I win big.

>>7282734
>If you hold gold short time you will make huge loss due to inflation.
?????????????????????????????

>>7282522
Dear smart person. Are traps gay?

>>7282932
maybe that's because physics and maths are hard sciences??? Ironically its the Keynesians who view economics as a science, Austrians have a much greater understanding of the subjective - I think you would like Austrian economics if you look into it. I don't believe the economy can be represented by an equation.

The reason I'm not piling up on precious metals right now is that I believe a part of their value is speculative. And I think crypto might take some of that speculative value if successful.

>>7282522
phd in economics here from harvard.

ecnomicsts doesn't know anything. if they do, they would be billionaire econ guys everywhere.

ceteris paribus my ass.

>>7283089
Yes! Romantic relationships should only be between a man and woman, from a moral point of view but also from a utilitarian view - its the best way to organise society to live harmoniously as nature intended.

>>7282901
We're in a housing bubble right now. If anything the price of building materials will drop if the economy decides to shit itself.

>>7283117
I'm not so dumb as to believe that non-scientific fields aren't worthy of inquiry, but I find it troubling that there are so many dissenting opinions and schools of thought in what should be rather objective. There is far less bickering in psychology and sociology, both of which are less quantitative than economics. Good fields shun the quacks and pseudo-scientists, they don't let them flourish and give them a bad name.

>>7283053
yes Im serious look the gold price doesnt go up proportional to inflation, the ladt 5 years it stagnated and you would have made a loss of about 0,02^5 due to inflation.
>>7283042
Gold may have been a low risky investment over human existence, but if the gov doesnt increase interest quickly people have not much options to flee if the stock market crashes. Furthermore there are fields or products that wont notice the crash. Real estate often goes well through a crash and is a secure ledger if there is no real estate crisis, energy and mining corps are also sustainable, maybe even agriculture.

>>7283196
Maybe here or in the US but not in Asia, India or Brazil

>>7283216
Everything is in a bubble, its not just the stock markets that are going to crash, its going to be everything - stocks, bonds and housing. They have all been over inflated by loose monetary policy - the only asset not in a bubble is gold and silver
>>7283200
The quantitative data backs up Austrian theory, the only problem with the implementation of Austrian theory is that it is pro very small government and therefore would never be endorsed by the state, which exists to gain more power.

If i have 1k, should i diverse or only invest in 1 thing?
Also is the crypto market gonna completly crash soon? Or is it unlikely

>>7283332
order fees are probably too high to diversify huge with only 1k, a fund for a broad investment with low fees may be smarter in that case

>>7282747
gold is the only way to compare price over time, it is the value datum because all things degrade relative to it.

the average yearly income in 1925 was $3481 usd. gold was $21 an ounce that would make the average income 165 ounces or $219000 in todays dollars

if you don't measure your portfolio in gold you're living in the matrix created by Keynesian economics implemented by the federal reserve

>>7282522
how to fuck do i even buy 100k of gold?

>>7283332
>s the crypto market gonna completly crash soon? Or is it unlikely
I don't know, the potential of crypto is really unprecedented and I therefore I have nothing to compare it against. I am personally not invested in crypto (besides a few memecoins I have sitting in physical wallets) I think its likely for a crypto crash just on gut feeling, a few coins will survive and thrive like the amazons and googles of the dotcom bubble but I don't want to gamble on which coins they may be, I do not think however that bitcoin will be one of them.
>If i have 1k, should i diverse or only invest in 1 thing?
Is 1k alot of money to you? If not I would go all in on something more speculative like silver, you can also get a more impressive ammount of silver for 1k than you could gold, you might feel bummed getting less than 1 ounce of gold for 1000 dollars

>>7283404
>the average yearly income in 1925 was $3481 usd. gold was $21 an ounce that would make the average income 165 ounces or $219000 in todays dollars
The theft that has been committed against humanity makes me really sad, even sadder is that normies can identify it but then go towards left-wing ideologies they believe will fix it, but will only make it worse.

>not getting into the greatnpalladium bull run

>>7283413
Depends on your country, I can't really advise on that - I buy all my gold through an online dealer though and get it delivered.

>>7283462
crypto can make i never happen again but we've got to make it through WWIII first and we have to beat to beat the communists

>>7283413
either at your bank or a seller that has products like currencies, metals and CFDs

>>7283478
Palladium has gone up 57% in the past year, bretty nice gains desu

OP do you think ETFs/ Stock buybacks are going to soften the expected market crash and equilibrium over time instead of all at once

>>7283504
You're not gonna be able to sell it at its spot price though. So you need bigger gains than that to actually make a decent profit.

>>7283322
If everything everything crashes you should be physically invested in other metals, like lead and brass.

If not, stocks still outperform gold in the long term.

Either way your advice is dumb

>>7282522

>have to pay 15% (((tax))) if you sell gold/silver in my ''country" even if the price goes down

Fuck it.

>>7282747
HAHAAHAH WE HAVE FOUND US A GOLD BUG!!
Seriously stick your meme degree up your nasty thicclet anus, you know shit about real world economy.

>>7283532
I just like to buy shiny things that I can touch and see. I buy gold and silver because it’s much better than passing money away on toys and clothes and shit.

>>7283524
A lot of the stock buybacks have already happened, businesses have taken out a lot of debt to do these buybacks and I don't think they could do much more, especially in a scenario where the interest rates are more expensive. I don't really understand your question about how ETFs could soften the market crash. If you asking what I predict the crash to look like I think it will be a similar speed to pic related, but without the QE rally to come in a save it.

>>7283551
What country?
>>7283529
I don't have any palladium, only gold and silver - you can always sell gold and silver at at least spot price though
>>7283563
Refute with facts instead of caps lock and insults please

>>7283596
If you don't have bullets, bandages and beans to back up your bullion you'll not make it during a financial collapse.

>>7283616
what it really looks like http://pricedingold.com/dow-jones-industrials/

>>7283656
I have a couple guns but I don’t believe there will be a total financial collapse anytime soon.

>>7283161
Dropped forever

I'm going for a shower, I'll answer more in 15-30 minutes

mfw when i own gold, silber, rental property, farmland, forest and crypto

crypto gives me the "thrill" i'm missing from the other assets

muahaha

>>7283616
That looks like btc/GBP Jan 2018

>>7283798
How old are you? Literally miring assets desu

>>7283653

Eastern EU shithole, it really doesn't matter. It was only 10% the year before,now the fucking piece of shit government decided to rise it to 15%. I guess they aren't going to stop there.

Also beside the tax there's the (((spread))) from (((merchants))) who sell coins/bars, so if i'll need money for something urgently and had to sell gold i'd have to lose money because of (((spread))) and (((taxes))). Also i can even open the sealed plastic container with the gold, if i do there's like 10 or 20% price reduction if i will want to sell it.

Precious metals is an option for people who can put aside like 100k USD/EUR and forget about this for at least 10 years or so. Average Joes will only get fleeced.

>>7283877
I didn't know you could buy bitcoin with Good Boy Points?

>>7283905
Only golden tendies.

>>7283787
what do i do with an insubstantial amount of physical silver (about 700€ worth)? just keep it in case this whole shitshow goes bust and people go back to hard currency or whatever its called? doesn't really seem worth it to sell it for gain unless the silver price skyrockets

How do I even buy gold OP? Do you actually hold the coin? Is it shipped to you? Are you buying pieces of actual gold?

Help a brainlet understand

>>7284006
gold is way too expensive for most people to actually get physical gold in any real quantities

>>7283787

Just wanted to thank you on a very interesting thread. I was just wondering why you suggest Gold Coins over Bars?

>>7283886
30, grew up besides the small farm of my grandparents, so this is where the farmland and forestry comes from
more pleb but hardworking household
thank god no one sold ever, only grew
part economist myself bruder
miring the miese, gets a lot of traction lately

>>7283890
Just shows you are talking out of your ass, most bullion dealers accept gold bars without the plastic container, since they will have to be cut down and tested in order to verify their authenticity.

>>7284006
Ebay or national mint. You buy they ship, you hold.

>>7284025
They sell them over the counter in most banks in Switzerland

>>7283890
Disagree. Everyone should own some gold. At least an ounce.

>>7282522
Economics = financial palm reading

>>7284076
>Ebay

Are you fucking retarded?

>>7284006
Theres three ways to buy gold: Physical, Paper or Mining stocks.
Paper is ETFs, don't buy them, if you don't hold it you don't own it - they don't have the gold they say they have.
Mining stocks amplify the gains and losses in the gold price, there are also business risk with each individual company. ie. One of their mines might not have the projected output etc.
Physical gold is the best way to go imo, I buy from an online dealer and take delivery, if you live in the UK use bullionbypost, if you live in the US use goldsilver.com

>>7284076
>Ebay
Enjoy your plated tungsten

>>7284025
Almost anybody with a job can buy a gold coin of some value every month if they don't waste their money on stupid things.

>>7284066
>most bullion dealers accept gold bars without the plastic container

Did you even read what i was writing?
I'm not saying that they aren't accepting gold back retard, i'm saying that if the container is opened, or even the seal is damaged the buying price will be reduced. Because i was planning to buy gold and actually read the terms of the (((gold merchants))). Maybe it's not like that where you live, but it is so in my shithole of a country.

>>7284246
How do you sell gold/silver ?

>>7284260
No that is a lie, opening the tamper proof container won't reduce the price.

>>7284223
>Paper is ETFs, don't buy them, if you don't hold it you don't own it - they don't have the gold they say they have
companies that hold gold for you are bound with a contract, it's not like tether, furthermore ETFs are in general gold mining and trading companies

>>7284223
Do you bother with silver in the UK? Its not VAT free like gold so if I buy Britannias there is a 60-70% total markup over the actual spot price.

>>7284374
Not in any large quantities no, I'd like to but I only have a few thousand in silver, compared to a few hundred thousand in gold, so basically nothing in silver, which is a shame because I think silver is really under valued at the moment

>>7284322

>these rules do not exist in my country, so they cannot exist anywhere else around the world! It's ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE!

w/e, retard
You are either trolling, or just aren't able to understand what i'm saying.

>>7284457
Stop being fleeced by dodgy merchants, you slav mongrel. You deserve to loose money if you are this stupid.

>>7284354
They have clauses that they can close your position and pay you out in fiat. If the ETFs had as much gold as the claim the total amount of gold that exists in the world would change hands every week and a half, it's mathematically impossible from them to have as much gold as they say they do. People speculate that every ounce of gold in an etf has between 4 and 400 owners who all think its theirs.

>>7284306
If you are in US, https://www.apmex.com/..

>>7284453
Gold is the most dense store of value, you could have all your life savings in less than 100 kilos unless your incredibly wealthy, you could just smuggle it in and out in your car if you ever want to buy and sell

>>7282522
Is the world of the verge of another great depression, "one in a lifetime crisis" as they call it?
I mean just looking at the amount of debt(both public and private) and how markets are overblown, it seems so.

>>7282522
enjoy the massive amount of alibaba tungsten flooding the market

>>7284597
>buying from alibaba
May as well just shoot myself in the foot

>>7283653
Where do you sell gold and silver at spot price?

Is this regardless of the condition you're selling it in?

>>7284565
I think so

>>7284630
Shop around different dealers, brokers and investors. If you ever need to liquidate really fast you can always just sell back to the dealer you bought from.

>>7284504
they are like banks, of course there is reserve cutting, but the dimension you think of is just delusional, the whole world would needs to be in war and fear for this to happen. You just sound like a fear monger who tries to raise the gold price for his own profit. In my opinion gold has not much worth, it's just like Bitcoin an asset that exists over many years and has a value only in people using it for jewelry. If a time comes when people grow fond of other luxury gold will be worthless and only good for the industry. Clinging on luxury has no means for society. If you look carefully at companies finances and staff you will see which companies have a high beta in difficult times and still make Profit by investing in something meaningful and sustainable. It's not like companies will just decay and cease to exist.

>>7284630
Gold should always be worth the spot price as a minimum, coins will lose value if knocked around etc but should always maintain at least spot.

>>7284703
>You just sound like a fear monger who tries to raise the gold price for his own profit.
You got me, I'm trying to pump and dump a 7.8 trillion dollar market by posting to 35 anons on 4chan's business and finance board

>>7284756
I knew it!
What's the deal with 30% off sale at Royal mint? They all seems to be regular price.

>>7284223
>bullionbypost

Have you ever used ATS bullion? They also do free insured delivery but their prices are lower.

>>7284498

Yeah, you go fuck yourself, you double nigger. Fucking hate the fags like you. Have I asked for your retarded "advise"? No? Then STFU.

>>7282734

I have crypto, and I'm also not a fucking idiot who's only seeking insta-gains, so I have 130 oz of silver and about an ounce of gold and I have been accumulating a little more silver whenever I can manage it. I have them as insurance against inflation and market crashes. Yeah, metal are manipulated downward right now, but in a crash they spike no matter what.

>>7284498
>loose

Yeah, you go fuck yourself, you illiterate double nigger. Fucking hate the fags like you. You can't even comprehend what I am writing. Have I ever asked for your retarded "advise"? No? Then STFU.

>>7284812
I don't know, it must a discount on their premiums, its still more expensive to buy directly from the royal mint though compared to some other dealers out their

>>7284832
No, im looking into it now though - The prices seem higher above spot that Bullionbypost, about 3-4 pounds per coin more

>>7284923
I saw gold.co.uk having lower prices. Can you recommend any good dealer?

>>7284959
still more expensive the bullionbypost by about 3-4 pounds

>>7282745
sorry anon I was larping, what retard would drop 50k on link

All my cryptos are bleeding out. I’m actually down now about $600 from my initial investment. I’ve been contemplating buying gold coins with what meager amount of btc I have left. JM bullion allows you to purchase with btc. Good or bad idea? Will this crypto market recover anytime soon?

>>7284995
I have 3 kruggerands and 59 silver coins (mixed austrian philharmonics and britannias). I also have roughly the same value in cryptos. I feel incredibly comfy although I'm just a part-timer peasant working as a bicycle mechanic and studying at uni.
I believe in it.

>>7285098
I don't have anything to base my crypto predictions on, it may or it may not. Goldsilver.com also accepts BTC, look between the two which offers the best price. (also i good way to launder crypto profits desu)

>>7285098
I believe in Clif's predictions. Just keep it mate, don't worry. Get some gold when you can as well.
I did it the other way around. It's smooth.

>>7285130
Thats great anon, I'm sure it will do serve and protect you well in the future. If everyone had the same attitude the world would be a better place!

>>7283161
>Retarded Biblefag talk
opinion discarded

>>7282522
>austrian school
>school
dropped

>>7282522
i'll stick with accumulating bitcoin.

100K at 2021 is still on target.

>>7282522
>follower of the austrian school
>dissertation on Mises' theory of money
>good insight into business cycles and monetary policy

>>7285213
Yes mate, it is the way of the red pill.
I keep saying that 4chan brings the best of truths out there, one just needs to dig deep enough through massive piles of shit but once in a while there are such treasures found that it makes my eyes watery.

>>7285270
I wish you the best of luck, crypto is a great tool to destroy the central banks and fractional reserve banking system. Anything that's not in fiat is a wise move.

are gold sterling the best option for gold coins?

>>7284952
Krugerrands are over £20 cheaper on ATS, sovereigns about £10 cheaper looking at them right now. Bullion by post has cheaper sovereigns if you order 50+ though.

>>7285297
True 4chan has had a really posative impact on my life between /fit/ and /biz/. Even though I'm pessimistic about the economy in the short term, I have hope for humanity that after the crash we can finally purge the evil from the system and have true prosperity. Humanity is gonna make anon.

both gold and platinum are relatively high right now

I would recommend buying gold at $1200/troyOz or less if you want to make any money off of it, it's on a downswing currently but has been trending upwards overall for the year. you can verify my claim here https://www.jmbullion.com/charts/gold-price/#

buy platininum at $1000/troyOz or less
same situation as gold

silver is very cheap right now, best time to buy
it's currently sitting at $16.66/troyOz so you can buy a lot of it. However be aware that historical highs for silver have only been up to $50/troyOz

precious metals are a safe investment, no risk of complete loss

also be aware dealers sell metals at a premium so don't expect to be paying exact spot price

look for deals that advertise smaller premiums (ex. silver rounds for only 79 cents over spot) for best returns or buy in large quantities for better prices

also factor in selling prices because dealer also wont buy at spot price

shoot for 90-95% spot

if you don't have much to sell then expect as low as 85% spot
or put your money in ETH

Austrian economics is a fucking joke. What pissass college still teaches that filth?

>>7285396
I was looking at 1OZ Britannias, I can't seem to find the 2018 Britannias on their site though

>>7282522
Actual economist here, I'll answer 3 questions

>>7285403
Good lad. I'm of the same attitude. Short term suffering, long term winning. Don't forget the ongoing spiritual battle as well! It's incredibly hard not to become bitter and mean over the years of redpilling. I know it very well myself. Stay positive, we're gonna make it.

>>7285316
fuck no, always buy pure or real antique coins
sterling is just a plating

>>7282522

So, I heard a rumor that there will be a lot of money entering the gold market in March. Why is that? What event will trigger this inflow?

>>7285396
I recommend using thegoldbullion.co.uk as well. They usually had better deals than bulionbypost at least when I bought mine.

you can buy a gram of pure gold for around $55

I've been using JMbullion.com for years now
they're the only dealer I trust

free shipping, purchases are insured, and they have an A+ rating from the better business bureau

>>7285467
Possibly based on expected fed rate rises that will hammer the equities market

>>7282747
>gold
>confiscated by FDR
>had a stellar real growth from $1 to $3 in nearly two hundred years in the same time stocks went up from $1 to $1,000,000
>stability is so great that it dropped like a brick eight years ago

That’s a fantastic investment you’ve got there, anon. Don’t let anyone dissuade you. As a shareholder in a company that sells gold, I am very happy to see you create more suckers to profit from.

>>7285481
They seem really expensive on the Britannias

>>7283042
>single asset
>low risk

*rolls on the floor laughing internally*

>>7285590
>stability is so great that it dropped like a brick eight years ago
huh?

>>7285464
are you sure?

>>7285693
yes

>>7285630
I’m sorry, it’s been only six years. High quality asset for anyone who followed the advice of goldbugs like Schiff back then as opposed to staying in the stock market that has outperformed anything by an astronomical fucking margin since the dawn of finance.

>>7285757
I've made massive gains in the stock market bubble, its now time to recognise it as a bubble and pull out

>>7285868
People have been recognizing that it’s a bubble for the past five years. We may get a major correction this year or maybe we will not. Maybe we will not get another major correction for God knows how long and only suffer from stagnation until the P/Es go down a little. What you are doing is little different from every other goldbug who is always certain that the next big crash is right around the corner.

At any rate, please buy your gold from Goldmoney.com . A fantastic company that gives you a credit card that allows you to pay from your gold account. It’s skipping fiat as much as possible while still retaining all of its benefits. Goldmoney.com . I absolutely have a position in that company, think that gold is utter shit, but want you suckers to start spending money there nonetheless.

>>7286017
>Makes fun of Peter Schiff
>Shills Goldmoney
anon i...

which crypto do you hold OP?

>>7286308
Some chancoin I got given, none really

>>7286189
What do you find surprising about it? Peter Schiff is a fairly prominent figure, who keeps shilling this company on major networks. They also have an interesting new line of “store of value jewelry” that may catch up with goldbugs that are in a relationship. It’s a fairly innovative and still very small company in the space. Why would I not want to profit off you?

The whole of retail finance, i.e. dudes in the bank offering you to sign up for their very best safest high growth mutual fund de luxe, is full of shit, but it attracts people who don’t know any better like a fucking magnet. I don’t need financial advise from a bloke with a high school diploma who can’t do a basic TMV calculation, but I do want a cut of the retard-tier fees his bank’s shitty fund is changing.

>>7282522
best stocks to buy?