/biz/ - Business & Finance

>dumb celebrities are investing in crypto
>wow, they're early adopters like me

>>7141500
by that logic wouldnt we be in the media attention phase then

>>7141530
that was last year
you know where eth, btc, ltc, xrp and xmr all did 1000%

We need a new meme chart, this one doesn't work anymore.

Its over we all know it, every jackass knows about this shit now. Lets wait a few years and go at it again once its bled out.

i see this stupid shit every month. pic related.
>but it's really different this time!

>>7141476
Why do you care enough to come here every day and post this? I honestly don't get it.

there's one every day.

here, have a nujak

>meme chart
Sage
Almost as bad as meme lines

>>7141530
this is not the bubble burst yet but many people are unironically believing they are early adopters. I'm cashing out everything this year.

>>7141476
Can you point out when the institutional investors phase took place at? The industry is barely even starting to adopt blockchain and crypto in their products and solutions. This is still early, possibly before the first sell of.

the adoption and the fucking price cycles are not the fucking same. OP is the real biz tard.

>>7141476

The only people around me in crypto are people that were already in crypto before me, and people I told to get into it.

It's fringe as fuck

>>7141701
there is a huge learning curve in crypto for most normal people. the steps are:
1) making the decision to even open a coinbase account
2) figuring out where to even look to track your investments besides the coinbase app
3) figure out what a wallet is and how to transfer coins without fucking up
4) figure out where to even find other coins and tokens that exist
5) figure out which of the thousands of coins and tokens are worth putting money in
6) figure out how to purchase alt coins using non-fiat pairs
7) figure out how to hold these altcoins because you can't just use coinbase
8) figuring out how to track each coin's development and news without getting fudded to death

each step is harder than the one before for people who don't sit around /biz/ all day. if you guys think the crypto market is saturated you are dumb as fuck

>>7141652
>>7141625
>>7141611
>>7141589

Hey look it's denial

>>7141870
you dumb as fuck bro

>>7141625
>many people are unironically believing they are early adopters.

This depends on what you're buying to be honest. And, specifically on 2 factors:

1. On the potential market the token/coin has.
2. On the marketcap it has right now.

Let's use a random shitcoin as example (DeepOnion = "An anonymous and 100% untraceable cryptocurrency sent through the TOR network".)
It's in rank 295 right now with a marketcap of 33M.
Let's say it becomes the most popular currency to make private transactions in the future.
(Obviously it would not replace fiat currency because of it's privacy and it would probably be used mainly for illegal actions).
Then it could achieve "at least" the XMR marketcap, which is around 4.3B right now.
And if it keeps growing to what it's trying to achieve, then it should probably go much much higher.
That means at least a 100x or more.

>>7141701
Why would anyone else get in now? Anyone with half a brain realizes that it won’t go up in value forever just because you want it to.

>>7141870
>Gives counterargument
>You're just in denial goy, this is the first sign! Sell all of your bitcoins to me for RIPPIN RIPPLE!

>>7141476
>Dude my sister knows about crypto, and my butcher, and my super retarded boss. This is the beginning of the end for central banks!

We're in an odd mix of bear trap, and media awareness now if we're going by the meme chart. So somewhere in early mania phase i guess. There's no real timeframe for this desu, the majority of normalfags are still just feeling it out.

>>7141994
You don’t realize that you are a normalfag. 4chan hasn’t been the secret clubhouse for years now.

>>7141994
I don't know why people focus so much on that meme chart.
Why should a bubble follow up that pattern exactly?
It's incredibly stupid and annoys me. Even if we're in a bubble, adjusting the btc chart and making it fit to the bubble one is retarded.

>>7142116
>that well-researched and widely accepted bubble chart is bull shit. Instead, you need to look at this double invex head and teacup meme line that shows crypto is going to moon!

>>7142157
you need to look at the total crypto market chart, not just the bitcoin chart you dweeb

>>7142047
While it's definitely now what it used to be, it's still no normie paradise. All i'm saying is that the general public is aware of bitcoin, but not much else about crypto. Of those that know about it even fewer have put anything in, and generally not very much.

>>7142116
Cause it gets them yous.

>>7142157
What the fuck are you talking about? did you read what I said retard?
I never even said crypto is going to moon.
I'm talking specifically about the meme chart.

>>7142157

Basically this

>>7141476
If you didn't buy BTC before the Bitcoin cash fork then you never were a part of the Smart money/ Institutional investors phase.

ETHEREUM MOONING YOU BITCHES

>>7141476

Yesterday I spent the day selling LBC, spoke with the people who weren't customers, only one has even heard of BTC and didn't actually know what it was. Just because we're immersed doesn't mean it's actually common.

>>7142477
Shhhhhh

If everyone jumps off btc to ETH at once BTC will crash and fuck up the moon.

The problem with nocoiners is that they post this graph precisely because they are nocoiners and want this to fail (or else they missed on free money).

>>7141625
stay poor faggot you dont deserve real gains.

This is going to go lower than 10k. I remember feeling the exact same way last week and even fomod back in only to lose money.

We are currently in capitulation phase. We need a good solid despair.

>mfw I don't give a fuck and I put more money into it every week and I'm 100% into ETH

you can kill yourself anytime anyway, why not take the risk

>>7142524

Post a stupider chart. Protip you can't

>>7142116
>Why should a bubble follow up that pattern exactly?
Because people will always be people. The stages of a bubble follow the will of the masses. It starts with a few insiders that push the price up. Some of them become nervous since they think their asset won't reach mass adoption (bear trap). The rest sees the drop-off and buys the dip, which leads to an even higher rise. The media finds out about it and brings it to the masses. Everyone and their grandma think they are 'early adopters' and will be rich with this new thing only they know about (lead up to new paradigm). Market cap becomes too high to sustain and quickly drops off. People realize they should just take off with the profits they made while others think it's just a correction (bull trap). Many people bought in at the top and want to sell once they break even. We return to normal and people start selling. This sets off a tidal wave of everyone panicking. One by one people realize that we're not going up anymore. They sell, which leads to more selling, which leads to even more selling, until everyone but a few bagholders sold.

The masses have been burnt by now. The fad is over. In most cases this is it for the asset, but in crypto we learned that this just leads to another stealth phase. Might take months, might take years. But this is how a bubble works. Because it operates on the psychological behavior of every human. It's simple herd behavior. It happened every time and it will happen every time there's a new get-rich-quick scheme. And most of the time these schemes are dead in the water as soon as the masses have been burnt once. Since the bubble only happened because they got in, and now they won't get in anymore, the asset is just dead. But since crypto will be around for a long time we'll probably get another bubble soon-ish.

>>7141476
Yup the last month saw the ENTIRITY of institutional and mainstream public money coming into crypto it's impossible for anymore to come in. Neck yourself OP.

Crypto needs a massive purge to get rid of all the nucoiners. A drop to 1k would be perfect, but the inevitable descent to 5k is not bad either

>>7142887
This, I'd honestly prefer a world where I was able to buy everything with ETH than my local currency, if you don't believe in crypto this game isn't for you.

>>7141923

then why don't you just fucking leave this board? lol...people had the same exact consensus as you a few years ago then look at what happened

>>7141476
I think BTC will go lower, for now it shows good support on 9.6k, plus the marketcap of this industry isn't in the trillions yet which is a good sign.

The real problem though is that certain coins need to die or bleed out to their real value.

>Tron
>ADA
>ICX
>Ripple
>EOS
>OmiseGo

Just to mention a few. The point is that tokens come overvalued on an exchange and then get pumped even more instead of going 1,5-2x on exchange to where their true value is accordingly to the ICO and slowly grow organically with the development of the platforms/projects/dapps. Which isn't happening.

This market needs to bleed a lot so it becomes attractive to enter again, right now except for BTC, ETH and LTC everything is unnatractive as fuck.

Plus I think whales want BTC dominance to go up again, aslong as alts bleed that will slowly but surely happen

>>7143419

>꧁Anonymous꧂

neo-/biz/ is real isn't it?

>>7142524
meme lines
It's simple, every time Bitcorn goes down and breaks the support line

Get rid of the old chart and draw your lines lower, it'll always work out

TA can always look correct once things already occurred faggot

>>7142887
I just use play money and hope for the best. I need to learn how to short it seems to be the only way to make money in this market for now.

>>7142809
>that retarded ass trip

I WANT TO SELL SO BAD

Hello >>7141476
Goodbye >>7141476

>>7143591
it's okay anon
>let him have hope

>>7141530

>and thats when everyone let the sensible comment be lost in the shitstorm

>>7141476
We are in a bear trap dumbass.

The left is ETH
The right is Buttcoin.

>>7141476
institutionns just got in tho

>>7141821
Holy shit are normies really that retarded they can’t learn all that from a single YouTube video?

>>7141476
When I stop seeing these bubble threads at least once a day, that's when I'm cashing out

>>7142157
>well researched
OK anon show me that "research".

>>7141476
we're not in the "smart money" phase, we're in the "public" phase, near the bottom between media attention and enthusiasm.

still a lot of money to be made, will be in the trillion dollar mcap by EOY

>>7144161
Now it really looks somewhere between complacency and anxiety, to be honest

>>7144231
that's exactly where we are

>>7144216
This.

>>7141607

>>7144216
this
we're in the bear trap

>>7144231
>complacency and anxiety
I'll take that if it means BTC floor is $9k

If you were in Bounty0X (50x - low cap), Verify (20x - low cap), Payfair (100x - low cap), Modum ( 30x - supply chain) and Wabi (20x - supply chain), you must chase CargoX ($7m mcap - low cap & supply chain) is only $14m mcap on IDEX...

Small cap 7M.. good team... PUMP!

>>7143419
I bought at $20,000 and I'm still hodling and not going to sell. It's going to $1,000,000 by the end of this year.

>>7144455
Look at the god damn graph. Use you damn eyeballs you fucking moron. LOOK AT THE GRAPH!! ITS RIGHT THERE!! Zoom out to 1 day candlesticks.

LOOK AT IT!!! We are almost in capitulation. ITS FUCKING OBVIOUS. JUST LOOK!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

How the fuck can people be so damn blind that they refuse to even look at obvious details like this. Its insane.

>>7144659
That doesn't even make any sense.

>>7144664
I'm looking, though.

>>7144664
When you zoom out, look at the tiny bumps of the past.
Now, zoom in on one of those tiny bumps.
That tiny bump will become huge, just like the chart looks today.
Now imagine today's chart, but as the tiny bump.
You're good to go now.
Nothing to worry about, friend.

>>7141821
This is true and I don't think a lot of people realise this. Most of my friends have went to University and would be relatively smart people. A lot of them have heard about crypto and want to invest but are put off by the process of everything. Yea it seems simple to us but most normal people are too lazy to take all the steps necessary to invest in crypto.

The same reason people buy apple and Google stocks idiot. Do you think they call themselves early adopters? Or investors you FUD rucker

Invest in tulips NOW

>>7141821

> Crypto is difficult to learn
> Shitcoins everywhere - it is a convoluted mess of scammers

This is seriously your reason for it NOT being a bubble?

>>7141476
makes me thunk

>>7144878
Its anons like you that keeps me coming back even with faggots like op

>>7145365
....yes....
you are seriously confused if you think we are anywhere close to market saturation let alone mass adoption. look at the number of wallets for any ERC20 token. there about half a million for OMG and 50k for BAT. if you think this is a saturated market, you should give up everything in finance or trading or econ because this isn't the hobby for you.

>>7145506
not to mention if its a bubble, its a tiny little fucker at $800 billion.

>>7145506
Okay, okay, I got it. The speculative market is not yet saturated, and there is mass adoption of crypto trading ahead, and there will be crowds of normies buying bitcoin with the expectation of getting rich. Alright.

>>7145596
What is the value of a bubble ?
5 Btc owner.

>>7145639
if that's all you can take away from my post, just leave biz. there is nothing you can gain here.

the point is that as certain tokens and technologies mature, i will look back on your claims that a token with 50k wallets is completely saturated and laugh. your only argument is a meme chart. i actually look at user growth and adoption rates, two things that seem to go over your head.

smart money is a meme

>except to buy some more

Tulips to the moon in 2k18.
We're not anywhere near a bubble

>>7145682
Not sure mate, just pointing out that this is much smaller than past bubbles at this point.

>>7141821
This. Crypto is just starting out. It still has little to no use case in everyday life. It will have a use case in everyday life after x amount of time. It depends how fast the technological developments go and how fast we (and companies/governments) are to adopt those into our life. Once it's installed into our daily lives that currency (impossible to predict which one(s) that will be) will have a magnitude of a lot more value than it has today. Like, a shit ton more than now. Crypto is going to be the new money. It's like the transformation from trading to money. Money then become FIAT and now FIAT currencies are going to be slowly but steadily replaced by crypto currencies. I mean FIAT is just inferior to crypto so it will only be a matter of time. This era is your opportunity anon. We are all going to make it.

>>7141870

>>7141581
Aye

>>7141589
I can cherry pick chart periods as well

>>7141581
This. Two of my friends have now approached me asking how to buy bitcoin and “Etherium coins”. Shit’s dead for a while

>>7144155
They can but then bitconnect happens because YouTube is the greatest source of information outside of the white house.

>>7141476
Boring post

Think of something new.

>>7147647
What’s that a chart of cherry picking anon?

>>7141589
>log scale
actually kill yourself

>>7143588
What's wrong with OMG?

>>7144081
>>7144161
>>7144216

>>7148390
>muh skeatboerd
he doesn't know, he's pretty obviously retarded.

>>7147647
LMAO. 2014? 4 years ago? When Mt. Gox collapsed? You are dumb as fuck.

>>7148380
Log scale shows percentage gains. Sorry this concept is too confusing for you. Try harder.

>>7148460
>people don't need to google bitcoin more than once
>OH FUGG ITS OVER
This is clearly the awareness phase, which is why people googled bitcoin. Now they are aware.

>crypto market cap half trillion dollars
>99% of cryptos don't even have aworking product

we are far from bubble levels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNvoC5uyl5U

Stop looking at the short term you fuck everytime their is a dip people say its popped this is how it works people take profits it doesnt go up forever. if you zoom the fuck out youll see btc still has increasing volume and is going to hit key ta levels around 8k and probability says it will shoot up around or past last ATH. Exchanges are literally turning down new accounts because they cannot keep up with the business there is much more money to come still.

>>7141476
To any intelligent individual capable of rational thought: don't listen to this grotesquely stupid individual. Futures markets have had next to no effect on Bitcoin (less than $10M worth of futures positions open as I write this). Crypto hasn't even really begun to take off yet. People out there who remind you of the dotcom bubble, fail to remember that those who held through the bubble bursting made more money than God. I actually fucking laugh every time I hear the words dotcom bubble. Like, "oh yeah, good call, the Internet was such a dumb idea; can't believe anyone thought it would make them money." If you honestly think crypto is dying: good. Get the fuck out. I don't want you to get rich with me. Dead serious, go work until you're 72 years old, and then "retire." But, to those of you who have the clarity of vision to understand that block chain tech is a new and exciting tech that is obviously here to stay and is going to change the world, hold on to your god damn mother fucking investments, and you useless fucking pussies will be sipping scotch with me, retired, at 48 years old, saying "thank fucking god I didn't sell my crypto holdings like a bitch.

>>7150019
90% of the people I know who trade crypto are the dumb kids from high school or college dropouts so...I mean...you can’t set your expectations too high

>>7150019
internet provides value
crypto provides ponzi scheme
both r innovative technologies but crypto doesn't have value

>>7150217
Not yet...

>>7141870
That's some pretty solid projection there friendo. I guess most companies in the internet 2.0 phase should have just abandoned ship. No one takes shit like the financial strength of facebook and google seriously amirite?

>>7150130
No one really gives a fuck who you know though. It makes literally no difference to the kind of change that crypto is signalling. It's funny because you're clearly dumber than the people you are judging because you can't see this.

>>7141476
why are you trying so hard to convince me to sell?

>>7150805
You lack the intuition to see that you aren’t even arguing against anything. I guess you dropped out for a reason

>>7146002
>I mean FIAT is just inferior to crypto so it will only be a matter of time. This era is your opportunity anon. We are all going to make it

What exactly makes you think FIAT won't go down without a fight? In fact it won't even be a fight. Crypto plotting to take over FIAT is like a shrimp wanting to fight a shark. Unless there is a real revolution, none of what you hope for will happen

>>7151069
> accuses me of being a dropout
> tries to claim that expectations regarding a concept which has grown to be worth half a trillion dollars in under a decade with serious financial and tech backers should be set low because of his personal anecdotal evidence

I have seen bacteria cultures in petri dishes with a higher collective IQ than you, retard. Stay out of crypto - you deserve to be stuck working for the rest of your life.

>>7141476
good. Hope we can get back to normal growth since I'm invested in the next google/amazon while you kids play with your 1500 shitalts.

>>7141821
I didn't get into crypto because of the first step, when I first tried to do it I couldn't use gdax or coinbase (they don't accept my country) so I gave up right there. I looked for alternatives but they were full of tedious steps so I gave up.

I remember my last time trying was back in 2016 when I wanted to buy a 4chan pass with BTC and I just could not be bothered with how tedious it was to get BTC compared to making a paypal account and buying things that way.

Why do some retards get so butthurt here every time someone mentions the bubble?
Is it because they invested at 19k and they can't cope with the possbility?

>>7151478
too much
>le green text i'm le logical one tryhard

>>7141476
TRUE

>>7141476
Is it just me, of does that chart pick up at the end? Who gives a fuck how low it goes if you hold and it goes back up. Stupid cunts.

>>7151634
People who sold high and will x10 their holdings once it craters?

Remember that time bitcoin fell 80% from 1000 to 190, whew boy that was fun times.

Cryptocurrency has real world use.

Why does that seem to get ignored in all of these bubble comparisons?

Crypto isn't a tulip, it's not a beanie baby. The public doesn't understand how it works, at all. The technology is too complex for even probably 50% of the autists on this board.

Until the GENERAL PUBLIC understands how Crypto works and what it does, we're nowhere on that graph. At the same time, we're in the "return to mean" part, because we're witnessing another Crypto "mini-bubble." This has happened before.

>>7150019
yeah blockchain might be used for tech... it almost might be phased out completely. Think about VHS ---> DVD ---> Blueray. Yeah home movies are a great idea but that does not mean we are going to use VHS forever.
On top of that most people are aware of crypto at this point, but you could argue that it is not very accessible. However you could also argue that dumb niggers managed to find their way in.
Blockchain is interesting tech but this entire market is nothing more than a pyramid scheme and the smart money has been cashing out. Whether or not this market will revive is still very uncertain. Most normies see this as nothing more than an internet trend like pokemon go. You almost sound like a redditor the way you talk about the tech and as if that is the only factor in the continual growth of this pyramid scheme market of speculation.

The point is... I really do not know what is going to happen and if I don't know there is no way you even have the faintest idea beyond what you convince yourself.

>>7151881
Internet has real use. The market crashed nonetheless. Because there's no need for a speculative market to adopt a technology.

>>7151881
B-but nobody is disagreeing with that. We're in a mini bubble that will crash. That doesn't mean bitcoin and the rest of crypto won't go on in the future and possibly even reach $millions.

>>7141476
we are in between your stupid circles of death and the fun did not even start

>>7141476
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

>>7151603
probably because people have been calling it a bubble year after year. I thought it was a bubble with BTC was $500+, then I thought it was a bubble after when it was $1000+. Maybe this time the bubble really did pop but who knows

>>7152348
best prediction you got?

>>7151478
>unable to read that his response was not to anything related to what you're saying
>tries to throw in petri dishes to act like he's smart

>>7148380
>doesn't name a single thing wrong with log for tracking finance/forex

ok, we'll give you a juicebox just go back to playing donkeykong or yugi-oh or whatever you fuckers do now

>>7141476
why do you care, are you a kike who fears for his usuryless future?
better brush up on your firm handshake and direct look in the eye

>>7141476
it's a bear trap

>>7141476

>>7152409
I don't try to make predictions anymore because they never work out in my favor

>>7141530
Bruh you're past the mania phase

>>7141476
If I am currently feeling a mix of "Enthusiasm" and "Greed" then how the hell are we in-between "Return to Normal" and "Fear"?
WRONG

>>7153377
It’s a good indication of how many people someone talks here by seeing if they thing were in mania phase

>>7141476
Hello there ZbV5qkeH

I am writing this to you as a mother and as a human being.

I just had my son running down in tears and locking himself up in the guest bathroom.

Now i went up and saw this page online on the webbrowser.
Now i suppose it was you who did this to my boy, and after reading what you've written i can confirm it was indeed you. Calling him " not smart " and a " tard " ( pardon my french )

I would hereby like for you to rethink your actions, if one day you'd become a parent, how would you like for your spouse to be named a tard.

please play nice on this webforum, this is for all ages

Thank you and fun with the internetmoney game you guys are on, i'll see if my son will continue joining you guys on your game tonight.

Kind regards
-Ms. Davis

>>7141476
Hey ZbV5qkeH

I am responding to you as a mother of a child that has been playing on this server.

My son just ran down in tears and has now locked himself up in a room.

I went up to look if it had something to do with the computer and i saw this page online on the webbrowser, i see that you went after him calling him " not smart " and " a tard "

Now excuse me, but you must understand that i see that as a high case of internet bullying.

I would like for you to apologize , then i will see if i can get my son to continue playing in your game of internetmoney

please play nice.

Thank you and fun !

Kind regards
-Ms. Davis

>>7148511
>LMAO. 2014? 4 years ago? When Mt. Gox collapsed? You are dumb as fuck.
They always go back to 2014 when their meme chart gets torn to shreds and even then it doesn't match the meme chart.

>>7148380
the state of /biz/ ladies and gentlemen

>>7141476
Guess I just sold all my bitcoins then

>>7141821
this is very true. and guess what? it's so much fucking easier than it was 7 years ago.

do you know what I had to do to buy my first Bitcoin? fucking buy second life gold and trade it on a second life exchange for Bitcoin. before That you had to buy liberty reserve fake E-gold or mine your own, or trust some fucking rando on Bitcointalk to not scam you out of your Western union, dwolla, or PayPal.

it's going to be another 10 years minimum before we see the real bubble.

and here's the catch... the "new paradigm" phase is REAL. this really fucking is a new paradigm. when is the refrigerator bubble going to pop, hmm?

what if it IS a bubble but it just doesn't follow this memechart?
wasn't this made by some psychologist before internet 2.0?
I can imagine that being a big influence on how we perceive media

>>7141821
I am so grateful for having the willpower that I do after reading this.

Semi techie-autist here, got my mom into all this shit a while ago and she had issues with literally every single step. I just took like 3 days 20-hours per day learning fucking everything to get through this, but I'm sure most normies will take months if not longer to go through this whole list.

Just remember how much BTC you had in January last year, and see how much you've got today. It's not so bad.

>>7152348
I thought it was a bubble at $4.50.

crypto is a fucking bubble factory, with miles of underground warehouses filled with detergent.

please, cash out. I'll take your coins.

left is eth and right is bitcoin?

>>꧁Anonymous꧂
>Hirosheemoot pls

>>7141652
The winklevoss/bogdanoff twins

Oh but we we can all turn our sub $1000 portfolio into millions and satoshi will be a trillionaire XD

>>7141821
Good thing CNBC taught them how to buy XRP (at ATH)!

>>7155419
I FOMO'd in last week and I don't plan to cash out for a few years, it would suck if I got in too late but I'm willing to take the risk anyway

>>7151894
But $500B is NOTHING bro, this market can not pop until it reaches [3T - all the money in the world] and I cash out on top

>>7141821
this guy gets it. Once crypto becomes as simple as turning money into coins without crazy fees or waiting periods and a huge learning curve we all have a huge fucking start.

1 eth will be 1000000 in 10 years. It is highly likely that NEO ETH and maybe something for enterprise like VEN or WTC or SHIP possibbbbly ICX or ADA or XLM will also be huge in 10 years but in 10 years you will have 3 or 4 coins each with crazy amounts of money. If BTC can sort itself it is possible for it to be 10000000 in 10 years

>>7141923
same stupid thinking when btc was 10... Just like my stupid friend who told me buying AMZN at 900 a few months ago was...

>>7156007
yeah couple of weeks ago here. Had used bitcoin years ago on MP. Tough times at moment. Put it off for months after first verification got rejected.