/biz/ - Business & Finance

Dissolve country and start over.

>>708236
Get them to pay denbts

>>708236
put all people in forced labor camps. those who refuse to work will get shot. That's the only way

>>708236
tax evasion is a fucking national sport over there jesus christ

According to Lee Kuan Yew, national development is a function of a nation's culture. Might be hard to encourage reform when there is such a consistent history of dodging taxes, state protectionism and blatant cronyism.

>>708236

honestly you can't, just let them go bankrupt, and write it off as a failure created during the 90s idealist age


same for the rest of the piigs, just let the EU be Prussia aka Germany + Eastern Europe. Poland/Baltics will stick with Germany against Russia and aren't thieves like southern euros are

>>708236
> It's alright, Anons. Trust me

For real though, this guy is stupid smart. I went to a lecture of his in Austin and it was fucking brilliant. There's a reason Valve employs him.

>>708236
Kill all inhabitants rent country to Germany or Switzerland

>>708240
>>708346

>>708236
D E B N T S
E
B
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WE'LL PAY DEBT WHEN GERMANY PAYS REPARATIONS!!!!

>>708236
bankruptcy

I read their finance minister say something like 'It is our moral obligation to minimise the loss of our partners'. It your fucking moral obligation to pay debts.... I'm sad the banks and politicians messed up and the greek population has to fix it.... Doesn't seem very fair. Reparations from Germany won't help at all... Depending in who calculates Germany is supposed to pay 3 (three) - 365 billion.... What the greek politicians are doing is poker, simple game theory... First semester Computer science/economics. And IMHO EZB should leave the table and greece should leave the Eurozone.

PAY DENBTS GREASE

D E N B T S
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>>708236
>kick out of eurozone
>becomes new albania
>is finally stable

problem solved

or sell it to china, they love extravagant crap - a pseudo-communist one party state owning the birthplace of democracy is extravagant as shit.

By abolishing the orthodox church

All Southern Europeans belive that they will go to Hell, so they feel sinfull from the beginning

This means they don't believe in the State and in paying taxes, because it all means nothing, and Jesus will soon come with 4 riders of apocalypse and debts mean nothing in that scheme

Thus we need to abolish the slave-morality they are taught by from childhood

All the PIIGS are taught with that religion, and all have terrible financial sensibility

Religion maybe opium for the people, but it is cyanide for a proper state

>>708236
pay denbts

>P A Y D E N B T S

>>708236
They should just be made to default. I don't get it. The debt is absurdly high that they have a snowballs chance in hell of being able to service it and pay it off.

I'm guessing part of the reason they don't to allow a default is because of fear of a causing another credit panic?

Seriously though, feels like a few countries in the EU should just be allowed to default. Let the idiot banks who lent them the money suffer and start over.

>>708634
are those countries any more religious than northern countries? Burger land is the worst of all, and they seem to be doing okay.

>>708236
Step 1: Tax reform
Step 2: Break up the oligopolies
Step 3: Propose free money to the poor
Step 4: Realize step 3 is retarded
Step 5: Pray a fascist takes control and saves the economy without defaulting on debts
Step 6: Oust fascist and return to faux democracy
Step 7: Fail step 6 and have fascist start taking over other countries
Step 8: Own other countries
Step 9: Forgive your own debts

>>708816

The problem is the Euro is all floated by Germany and in lesser part France. Germany letting France default is the same as saying, its ok to not pay me back the billions I lent you

Its short term better for Germany to lend them more, collect more interest in the short term, and eventually say, fuck you, you are out, dont ever call me again

Think of a loan shark. They will gladly keep extending payments and loaning more money knowing you cant pay it back... until the point they decide to kill your wife in front of you, break your legs, and say dont ever let me see you again

>>708822
A vast majority of burgerland's money is from the northeast and southwest, the least religious sections.

Texas is only near the top in State GDP because it's bigger than any European nation sans Russia.

>>708927
....and the fact Texas holds the most natural resources in the country

>>708236
Mandatory economics/finance class, start them when they are young. Social Justice Warrior class is going to have to sit in the back burner. Sadly.

>>708927
The American taxpayer saved New York's banks from collapse. You could say they are near the top because the whole country backs them.

>implying Greece is any more corrupt or backwards than most other Baltic/Eastern European countries
>implying they don't contribute more than these same countries instead of using EU as a cashcow
>implying Germany did not ransack Greece during WWI & WW2 and bankrupt it several times over
>implying Greece should pay the debt back
>implying Germany shouldn't pay back their debt first

>>708927
>Let's ignore California's size.

Dumbass. Cherry pick better.

>>709260

Greek detected.

Why do you guys insist you have the right to live for free while the rest of the EU pays for it?

>>709457
>Muh "human rights"
>Muh living wage
>Muh hard work deserves a reward
>Muh gimme dat culture
Take your pick.

>>709260
>still talking about the world wars
It's been 70 years. The current Germans owe you nothing.

Can we not fix it? It'd be interesting seeing a whole country get rekt economically

>>709450
Calirfornia is #1 on the US State GDP, they make more per square mile than any other state.

Know your facts, retard.

>>709538
>hard work
>Greeks

Pick one.

>>709601
i pick Greeks

I got asked in a phone interview today what qualities make a good loan. I said the borrower should have a steady stream of income, assets that could be liquefied to pay the debt or collateral. I should have just said that with the way the finance industry and central banks operate these days there's no reasonable expectation that debts are ever paid so it doesn't really matter. Would probably have gotten an offer on the spot.

>>708927
Yeah credit and GDP have a lot to do with religiosity, huh?

You're a retard.

debt forgiveness would be their grave. what they should do is leave the euro asap, declare war on the grey economy and use the extra money to boost the real economy

>>708236
The ECB loans money to Greece, so it completes the buyback of PSI bonds. It was already done in the past:
> the Greek government in December 2012 also completed a debt buyback of 50% of the remaining PSI bonds, where the issuance of €11.3bn EFSF bonds financed the buying of PSI bonds representing a nominal debt of €31.9bn, thus resulting in a €20.6bn net decline of debt (equal to a debt-to-GDP ratio decline of 10.6 percentage points)
If you consider now the PSI bonds trade at about 47/100, that's an *enormous* debt relief measure.

The ECB returns Greece the profit it already made by buying "special" bonds, which where not involved in the haircut (they changed the ISINs overnight).

Removing kebabas can't hurt

>>709584
but that's stupid. the past forms the future, and peoples actions have effects even if they are dead. it doesn't matter that the CURRENT Germans didn't do it, what matters is that there is still an injured party and Germany still exists to fix it.

>>708236
It's pretty simple, you take all taxes money and buy bitcoins. Within a year or two +%10,000, now Greece is the richest country ever on earth and the universe.

These faggots politics doesn't get it.

>>709260
My grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand-grand....-grand-grand father once bought both America and Europe to a man for the price of a cow.

You all owe me faggots.

>>709584
Cause and effect?

How is this different to the current government saying 'we didn't take out a loan, the previous party did, lel, we owe you nothing'

Or

'I didn't vote to join the EU, my father did, I owe you nothing'

If we are talking about NOW, and not the past, the EU gives billions in foreign aid every year to far worse corrupt countries with poor oversight/checks, in return for squat, but gets butthurt at the thought of writing off a comparatively smaller sum.

Other countries get off lightly because they are small, landlocked tax havens or general population is too dumb to understand much and a confused mindset.

Greece suffers from not being quite poor enough to get aid, not quite oppressed enough to not complain, yet no incentive to be productive since the numbers are weighed against them, get can't pay or work their way out of their current repayment plan.

Syriza got penalized for telling the truth.
Brussels needed to see borderline anarchy and the threat of pulling out altogether or defaulting to take Greece seriously.

Also, they are in a volatile region as the Only Christian country with a capitalist democratic model. It is surrounded by Middle East, Sandniggers, shit-tier Baltic states, former commie and Nazi countries, with a huge coastline and over 2,000 islands. They need the UN, NATO, military, or Islam may spread there, as Turkey have tried invading before...

Greece was/is the last stronghold during WW2 that did not side with Nazis/Axis/Commission, or surrender, despite mass executions, and remained loyal to Allied forces.

I feel there will be greater implications if capitalism fails there, and you know where that leads - communism? Socialism? Nazism? Islam? Anarchy?

Hello /biz/, I'm getting my bachelor degree in economics soon and I'm considering my options from here.

I definitely want to do a master's degree because looking back I think that the econ bachelor was a waste of time and I don't with to enter the job market with my current skills (or lack thereof).

While my time at university was certainly interesting, my subjects were simply too easy and core economy subjects were very far-fetched, based on very strong (and at times absurd) assumptions and simplified, so much so that they're pretty useless. I enjoyed learning about different concepts, but really, it would have been way more efficient to just read the right books to get to the same level of understanding as you get when you're an excellent econ undergraduate.

Thankfully I chose one of the best unis in my country and we were very focussed on maths and quants, one third of the modules/classes were maths/quants classes. my GPA will either be 3.9 or 4.0 so I can chose whichever uni I want in my country, and I wonder where I should go from here.

What I'm looking for is a master in a field that actually equips you with actual skills that you will need in your job. I want that field to make use of my abilities (the fact that I'm comfortable with quants and I grasp concepts that are hard to understand for most very quickly and easily). My biggest weakness are all sorts of soft skills to be honest, I'm not that great with people. I'm polite and socially capable, but nothing more than that really.


Would a Master in Finance be the right thing for me?

>>709457
>>709538
I explained that Greece pays in hundreds of millions, while smaller shit-tier countries contribute less, but they seem to stay below the radar since they are just small, shit-tier or low population or high cost of living anyway, but the actual ratio of debt to productivity that many other countries have seems less.

What Greece is saying is that everybody suffered when markets crashed, and everybody had to borrow, yet Greece is stuck in a dead zone of paying a fixed percentage of GDP into a big pool of EU budget, which gets shared with poorfag countries which contribute little, AND paying off debts, with interest on top.
They are asking for some breathing space to become more productive, pay in more, and join the big leagues by reducing their debt or externding the payment plan.
When Brussels disagreed, the Greeks said 'then we won't pay anything and may leave'

What do people do when they feel the system is working against them? They hide income, as the Greeks have been doing, they refuse taxes.
Greece was forced to ransack public accounts, close universities, colleges, put withdrawal limits, confiscate land.

This is no different to what the IRS or any debtor agrees to - allowing the debtee to be productive so their debt can actually be repaid.
If your income was $2k a month and the IRS wanted $1.5k a month in back taxes, you would have a case for renegotiation. If the IRS won't agree, the courts will, because taxes are a legal matter, not an accounting issue.

Like I said, Greece suffers by being close but no cigar while poorfag countries get off scot-free.
It's like how the middle classes are the first to feel the pinch when taxes rise, since they don't have the cheaper lifestyle of working classes or safety nets like benefits, social housing, tax breaks, or the many ways upper classes avoid taxes or get rebates, relief, tax breaks, incentives.

There are many forces at work that don't want Greece to be a successful model.

>>712940
Now, compare that graph (what Greece pays into the EU) to this one.

<<

The NET contributions are less, since Greece is paying so much in interest payments it can't keep up.

It is no different to renegotiating a credit card or loan agreement because the interest is draining your income.

It is being bled dry.

The UK took over 100 years to pay back the US for debts from WW1, with discounts and renegotiations.

>>712773
By that logic Italy should be paying reparations for the Roman Empire doing all the horrible things it did, or China should be on the hook for Genghis Khan's conquest. Or maybe we should just stick the tab with Africa for breeding humans in the first place and thus creating suffering.

That or your opinion is just stupid.

>>713129
Nice strawman.
You are comparing different situations, and talking about entirely different time periods/wars.

Greece is referring to WWI being started by Germans, then when reparations were issued, Germany went bankrupt, which led, in part, to WW2 as Germans were sick of austerity.

When reparations were shared out and sanctions imposed on Germany for being the aggressor (again!) Greece got meagre compensation for their banks being forced at gunpoint to issue an 'interest-free loan' to Germany, the equivalent of 100 Billion Euros today. This is on top of infrastructure damage.

It is felt that Germany is being hypocritical, as Europe went easy on Germany in demanding reparations for devastated WW2 countries, to allow Germany to recover and avoid WW3.

Germany and Brussels has dragged it's feet for decades on allowing Greece to recover, when Greece gave Germany breathing space to prosper.

The Germans in government are acting like this isn't their problem, because a previous German government had an agreement to pay Greece back, not the current German government.

Now Greece is saying the same, they are branded unreasonable.

They are the 8th biggest contributor out of 27 countries in the EU, they are not freeloading, they are just getting fucked on interest payments, while their debt increases, so their repayments are not making a dent.

Any productive country has high overheads.

Iceland had their entire banking system bailed out, and renegotiated debts, despite not even being in the EU.

This is like a loan shark breaking your legs, then forcing you to lend them money interest-free, then breaking your arms and lending you money at extortionate interest, then loaning you money since you can't pay them back, so you pay more interest.

When Germany was bankrupted, it was humiliated, so it isolated itself then went to war with everybody.

Syriza has hinted that those options look promising compared to the crippling austerity they are suffering now.

Ethnic Purge

Could the Fed do QE4, Marshall Plan 2.0 to buy up Euro debt???

>>713332
Go back to bed Tsipras. Reparations are a bullshit concept. It's just blatant theft on a national level. The allies could do it to Germany at the point of a gun barrel after both World Wars because they won the war. Greece could only do that if it were to go to war with Germany and somehow win.

>>713332
You're also talking about a different time period...from the present. It's been 70 years since WW2 and even more since WW1, everyone who owed money is dead. Move on.

bump

>>708236
someone with a french flag said on /int/ that if greeks stop smoking and instead invest the money that would go to ciggarettes they would be able to pay the debts by 2016

>>708236
germany write off most debts as repayment for ww2
???
profit :^)

>>708313
Yeah his socialist policies are going to make the country amazing.....

>>713332
WWI was not started by Germans. It was started by a small conflict which escalated because countires were allied to each other and had an obligation to help. Sarajevo is not in Germany.

>>715049
who created the alliance system?
Bismarck.
what was he?
Prussian/German

>>714927
Germany already paid Greece $115 million for war crimes in 1960, Greece accepted happily and signed an agreement that the debt was repaid.

>>715093
When Macedonia pays reparations to the estate of Xerses, everyone should be squared away. What's all of the oil, ever, in the middle east worth + 3000 years of interest on that?

>>708313
>TODAY YOU SELL HATS IN TF2
>TOMORROW YOU ARE THE FINANCE MINISTER OF GREECE

Living the dream.

Keep asking everyone for war reparations - what can go wrong?

Crying about Germany not paying Greece reparations is the same as us Finns crying about not getting the Karelian isthmus back from the Soviet Union/Russia. The real answer is "too fucking bad", and you should live accordingly. Never trust some bullshit argument to save you, when you, ultimately, have fucked yourselves up in the first place. Greece should just leave the Eurozone, plain and simple.

>>708236
kill goldman sachs
leave the euro
sachs is the reason they are in this mess in the first place

>>708313
>tfw I had a talk with him about global economics when he worked at valve

>>715143
holy shit this

Just sell them on ebay.

Then its not our problem anymore.

>>715170
lel

>>715165
>A bank is responsible for Greeks being in debt
>Not Greeks spending money they never had any hope of repaying
Is this what you're trying to argue? Because Goldman Sachs didn't spend all that money. Greeks did.

>>716924
If GS did proper accounting, Greece would never qualify, don't kid yourself. They pushed Greece through cause they stood to massively profit themselves.

>>716932
I bet you think it's the fault of fast food restaurants and candy makers that people are fat too. At some basic primal level people have to be held responsible for their own actions. If you can't pay back a loan its your responsibility not to take it out in the first place, not the job of a lender to make sure you're enough of a big boy grown up adult to make that sort of decision, particularly if "you" happens to be an entire fucking country.

GS didn't shove those loans down Greece's throat. They actively sought loans to pay for shit they couldn't afford. That's Greece's fault and no one else's.

>>713332
>WW1
>Started by Germany

Fucking hysterical. Pay your debnts and take a history lesson, Papadoupolus.

>>713332
>referring to WWI being started by Germans
Then let me refer you to the Austro-Hungarian empire. Ask them for reparations.

>>716944
they didn't need to shove it down their throats. they knew they would bite if they wanted to join the europe. it was not a matter of if they would join, but more when, and how.

eitherway its both their faults, but also GS for being one of the worst companies in the history of mankind.

>>716944
>I bet you think it's the fault of fast food restaurants and candy makers that people are fat too.
Oh absolutely, when you have streets filled with stores and fast food restaurants or when they're the only one available anywhere near they are absolutely responsible too. I'm not saying the consumers are innocent, I'm saying that, the FF restaurants are doing their goddamn hardest to fuck you over and that includes fucking over the decent stores by making them unappealing in every possible way, whether that means slandering by commercials and media, dwarving their physical stores, spend billions of dollars on advertisement and holding patents on various food products.

Man do I feel sad for those miserable fucks in america who have to struggle to get some decent fucking food, especially if they live in tornado alley.

PAY
D E B N T S
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>>708634
>All the PIIGS are taught with that religion, and all have terrible financial sensibility
Portugal - Catholic
Ireland - Catholic (mostly secular now)
Italy - Catholic
Greece - Orthodox
Spain - Catholic
you're ignorant and wrong

You fix country by doing video related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8xAXJx9WJ8

>>715143
>financing greek debt by selling steam items
it's
BRILLIANT

>>708634
Why did the Roman Empire go down then?

>>716944
>make a loan to someone you know can't ever pay it back
>cry when they can't pay it back

>>715143
>tfw sold hats in TF2 a couple years ago
>made 1k in a couple months only trading when playing

Time for greek minister

After 800 years of tyranny, oppression, rape and plunder, I calculate that the UK owes the Republic of Ireland €500 trillion + clay in the North.

Gib nou.

>>717561
bureacracy, corruption, stagnation and complacency.

>inb4 muh degenerates

Conclusion: Pay denbts Greece!!!

>>708236
Easy. Tell Germany to fuck off. Exit Euro. Bring back the drachma. Germans are fucking cunts who benefit from artificially devalued Euro to powered their export oriented economy while not helping poor countries.

Seat back and watch Germans suffer as their hyped up export economy crash.

After half decade of bare ass fucking over by EU, how could it get worse?

>>718484

Only way is to not pay debt. Noone trusts Greece with investments anyway. And there is no way suh a debt can be paid back. So Greece should target paying only the right people and give no fuck about the rest.

>>718489

said the guy who didnt respond to the paragraph's point but only with personal attacks

>>718489
Anon pls.
As if you could come up with better idea.

Protip: you can't.