/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>7059161
no, it does nothing

>>7059161
The lightning network is a meme that won't work
Even if it did, it would still be king shitcoin and would still lose the race to eth for king spot

>>7059216
u have to try harder
this is testnet 1400 nodes : https://explorer.acinq.co/#/
this is mainnet 333 nodes : https://lnmainnet.gaben.win/

>>7059161
Yes sir great investment sir

>>7059161
I use to hate BTC but now I love BTC. Only people with little understanding of Crypto hate it. The hate mainly just comes from retards chasing pump n dumps that get ass hurt when BTC moves and fucks up there shitcoins.

>>7059707
deluded

>>7059161
When in bull market, even bad news can't stop the bull
When in bear market, even good news can't stop the bear.

Come back in 6 months 1 year to buy at the bottom.

The tech is here to stay

>>7059161
hissssshhhh
GET THIS CROOKED COIN AWAY FROM ME

>>7059161
Will be 209$ by end of year
Bzc is the real btc

Biz is moronic.

Anon, as a grown up I will give it to you.

If 50% of your portfolio is not btc, you are doing it wrong.

Every alt you buy, you are buying to be able to add more btc to your stack.

Etherdelta is already buying BZC for 5x ICO price faggots.

>>7060607
this. Only oldfags can understand this.

If you are not accumulating ETH or BCH instead of this garbage coin that is literally only still alive because of hype and vapourware (Segwit and LN), then you are doing it wrong.

It is time to go long on alts, BTC will die sooner or later.

>>7060607
>buying BTC instead of ETH
lel

oh herro, just reaving this chart here

>BTC's ENDGAME
>Once a significant number of people are using Coinbase’s custodial accounts, Coinbase can then start to run fractional reserves and start loaning out Bitcoin. This is possible because the balances that their customers see are merely numbers on a screen. Coinbase would be fully technically able to manipulate these numbers as it sees fit, and would only need to keep enough Bitcoin in reserve to cover all withdrawal requests. At this point, even though real Bitcoin transactions would be underpinning everything, we will have returned to the situation Bitcoin was designed to resolve. Coinbase (and other similar Bitcoin banks) would be able to:
>Spy on and demand explanations for transactions.
>Censor transactions it doesn’t like.
>Inflate the money supply.
>Disconnect Bitcoin from their system entirely and settle amounts using any other token.
>All of this will come about as a direct result of high base-layer fees. The only way to avoid this is to keep the base layer friction free.

>>7060607
>>7060772
Unable to cope with shifting markets I see.

>>7061292
LN news could still be used pump BTC price x10, but in 2-3 years when it'll be clear nobody's going to use that shit BTC is going to zero.

>>7061377
ETH will scale x1000 better than the LN while retaining most of the onchain advantages.

>>7059161
Can someone explain why the same people that used to promote Bitconnect are now promoting Bitcoin Cash?

Is there a reflink I can use for discount?

Are there exchanges where Kyc verification doesn't take weeks ? And accepts Visa/Mastercard

>>7061292
For god's sake did your mommy drop you, why would anyone touch Roger Ver's shitcoin Bcash? I sold mine as soon as it forked, got some BTC, never looked back.

>>7061750
>Ad hominem
Don't attack the person, attack the coin.
In what way is BCH not a functionally better coin right now than BTC?
The best solution is what works today, not promises in 18 months. Cancelling the 2M block increase was the dumbest fucking thing I've seen in crypto in a long time.

>>7059741
Not an argument

>>7061819

Most people that shit on BCH don't even know why they're doing it. They're just sheep with no clue.

BTC will allow us to BTFO the evil bankers who are mooching off of society and when it finally hits 1000000000 (1 milion) dollars I will be rich and not have to work and contribute to society anymore.
God I can't believe the haters are actually defending the leeches. I make 3000 million dollars an hour mining Eth. My mom is making me pay for my own video cards soon but I'm sure the profit will still be there after.

>>7061966
Kek do you really think they will allow btc to win.

>>7059707
https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-the-lightning-network-cannot-be-a-decentralized-bitcoin-scaling-solution-1b8147650800
Cannot be a decentralised solution. There's already many hubs forming on testnet and mainnet.
There's also arguments saying that because people are opening channels so fast and closing them just as fast there's a limit on the safe throughput of the network. Someone calculated about 1500 tps. But that's talking out my arse with no sources.

>>7061396
What is that even supposed to mean?

I feel like decentro is doomed, it simply cannot be sustained, and Bitcoin is the proof. After all states and centralised organizations did form out of the need for efficency.

Look at Bitcoin now for example. The network relies on miners to work, but at the same time their is little incentive for mining because the reward is too low and investment too high.

>>7061396

nihao indeed, my friend. Ni. Hao. Indeed.

>>7061404
>all this will happen because people can't hold their coins in any other place except Coinbase or other exchanges
Anon, you're retarded I'm afraid

>>7061819
Bitcoin 'in its best form' is a shitcoin compared to modern coin architecture. If markets go through the labor to unlink original BTC for something new, it's not going to be a BTC fork.

>>7062089
>decentro is doomed, it simply cannot be sustained
>centralised organizations did form out of the need for efficency
>there is little incentive for mining because the reward is too low and investment too high

I don't even know where to start, literally everything you said is wrong

>>7062089
The reward is what the miners set it at. Enough miners are profiting at the current difficulty for it to keep it there. Decentro will not be doomed when ETH implements sharding and can parallel process transactions.

>>7061819

You mean garzik’s buggy fucking code?

>anonymous
nope
>cheap
nope
>useful
nope
>fast
nope
>unstable
yes
>speculative
yes

It was shit before
Now with LN and shit it's convoluted shit.

The only reason /biz/ doesn't like BTC is because they think it's already close enough to the peak that it can't turn their 100 dollars into 10 million.
The idea that if BTC was to die, all the market cap would instantly shift to coins like Tron and ChainLink is very appealing a naive autist.
Reality is that if BTC dies the altcoin fad dies with it. The continuing success of BTC is the only reason alts manage to find idiots willing to gamble their money away.

>>7062244
What are you talking about? /biz/ is full of retards like you who are bitcoin true-believers.

>>7062102
You don't understnad the economical incentives, exchanges will be the average user's bank, no need to pay fees, to maintain 24/7 online nodes, to lock enough coins for liquidity to have connectivity, etc.

>>7062324

It's not a matter of belief. It's a matter of understanding what this is all about.

>>7062395
You might hold a small amount of your crypto on an exchange but there'd be no reason to put your savings there. You're saying people would put literally all their money on a debit card that they use everyday for shopping. You just don't do that.

i dont understand people that want bitcoin to crash, crashing bitcoin effectively crashes the whole market with it

>>7062978
It just shows how retarded most ppl on /biz/ are

>>7062728
>You're saying people would put literally all their money on a debit card that they use everyday for shopping

t. Never owned a debit card
??

>>7063109
It's the equivalent of using an exchange to store all your crypto on. Surely you ought to have a savings account or something - which will be on your own terms.

>>7063194
People won't use wallets. "Be your own bank" will never catch.

>>7063586
>people will never use motorcars
>people will never fly
>people will never want dangerous electricity in their houses

>>7059707
>LN will solve the scaling problem
>LN will be cheap
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7trxvw/_/

>>7062244
>>7062978
This so much. Stop shitting on btc to buy cheaper you damn jews. Not even eth will stay above $1 if btc dies

>>7063690
You aren't even trying to understand my point, it's not like it's impossible to really be your own bank, but Blockstream chose a path which will force people to be clients in BTC banks.

>>7059161
No its dead Ethereum is the new king The flippening is here

>>7059216
I've only met one anon more rustled than you

I got verified on polo, bittrex, and gdax all within a day of submitting, in december. Is it because I'm white and live in utah?

Flippening is nigh

Bitcoin $190,989,770,850 $11,346.00 $7,347,730,000 16,833,225 BTC
Ethereum $116,762,802,814 $1,200.22 $4,128,930,000 97,284,500 ETH -2.41%


Ethereum $116,762,802,814
Bitcoin $190,989,770,850

Flippening do I have to grab you by the hair and ram your face into it corecucks?

>>7059161
Yeah there's a lot of hate towards btc because there's pissed off BCashers and Ripplers that tried to flip it and are now getting crushed.

>>7064142
moromons are not white. They look white but inside they are just unhinged stupid.

When the flippening is complete a new and glorious bull will begin Screencap this

>>7064174
Of course Ethereum hodlers love BTC.

>>7064162
Don't bother BTCers will pretend the marketshare chart doesn't exist.

>Vendors cannot receive LN payments without a third party liquidity provider.
>If a vendor opens OpenBazaar, opens a payment channel, lists some items, then receives an order, the buyer cannot pay for the order over LN since the vendor's counterparty does not have any funds in his side of the channel to send to the vendor. The only way for the vendor to receive an incoming payment is to have buyers open a direct channel (innefficient and unacceptably expensive) or open a channel with an intitutional liquidity provider who agrees (probably for a fee) to deposit money in the vendor's channel to facilitate incoming payments. This is not a great UX and introduces some significant friction into the app (not to mention no such insitutional liquidity providers currently exist). Moreover it's difficult to calculate exactly how much money the liquidity provider should deposit in the channel. Is $1,000 enough? Hard to say. If buyers try to pay more than $1,000 worth of orders before the vendor can spend the coins out of the channel (presumably to an exchange) then the those additional payments cannot be made. This creates a weird UX where the vendor has to continually try to juggle the amount of funds available in the incoming side of the channel to ensure that there is enough liquidity to facilitate payments.

>>7064292
Heavens to murgatroyd! Vendors need a float in cyberspace too.

Wrap it up guys, the last twenty-five years of progress has all been for nothing

>>7064191
I'm not mormon and i didn't grow up in utah

Problems with LN:
--- Opening a channel cannot happen instantly
--- Closing a channel cannot happen instantly
--- User must be online to receive a payment
--- Security: Cannot do cold storage lightning network
--- Use must continuously be online to monitor for old commitment transactions
--- Payment channels can be in weird states: Micropayment cannot be first payment across a channel due to fees/dust
--- Payments can fail
--- Wallet requires much more state than normal bitcoin wallet - 10x as much code leads to more bugs
--- Must use weird modern web technologies

>>7059161
Im dropping all my shitcoins ans going ham on btc. Fuck this shit

Btc is going to explode. Theres too much happening for it not to. (Robinhood, lightning, seg, new payment transactions, etc)

See you boys in lambo land this shits gonna 10-15x this year

>>7064602
>--- Opening a channel cannot happen instantly
>--- Closing a channel cannot happen instantly
Doesn't matter.

>--- User must be online to receive a payment
>--- Use must continuously be online to monitor for old commitment transactions
False. User's agent must be online, user can go to the party. User's agent always online for receiving email, so this is no worse.

>--- Security: Cannot do cold storage lightning network
Strawman. Equivalent to asserting wallet in back pocket must be equally as cold as bank-based safety deposit boxes

>--- Payment channels can be in weird states: Micropayment cannot be first payment across a channel due to fees/dust
Doesn't matter.

>--- Payments can fail
Just like Visa? Just like visa.

>--- Wallet requires much more state than normal bitcoin wallet - 10x as much code leads to more bugs
Literally the nearest you've come to some thing that matters. Gee guess we better hope programmers are working on the code, eh?

>--- Must use weird modern web technologies
If tech scares you perhaps you should stick to writing in to your favourite newspaper

Overall: 0.5/10 FUD, please try harder

LN takes funds away from miners. Less profit leads to fewer miners and less hash rate. Few miners is the only form of centralising that Bitcoin can experience.

Hence, Lightning centralises Bitcoin

Pretty obvious that businesses won't be adopting it but I suppose you hard core peeps will take any abuse they dish out.

https://youtu.be/Ew2MWVtNAt0

flippening occuring (highly likely IMO) will only further erode bitcoin's presence. if you don't believe that bitcoin's ultimate resting place is becoming a sort of collector's item then you are simply deluded.

>>7059741
bcash retard detected. enjoy your losses anon

>>7065400
>Less profit leads to fewer miners and less hash rate
False. Economic participation remains 100% above and beyond ordinary profits, so no reduction in miners, or hash rate, anywhere in the future, when miners currently get electricity for essentially $0 (China, et alii) and equipment can be paid out of block reward.

>>7065466
>Pretty obvious that businesses won't be adopting it
Please post evidence of short position.

You know, that such a dead tech to wrap up so much of your time posting here makes me think the techs not, in fact, dead.

1. Original Bitcoin, same Bitcoin that started the whole crypto currency market and persona banking

2. Bloating piece of shit that can only scale when the Banking cartel takes it over

The sooner you embrace bcash as your new overlord the wealthier you will become my fellow biztards

>>7060607
The flippening is just around the corner. If you buy altcoins right now, it's so that you can accumulate more eth.

>>7066245
Why would I embrace that abomination when I can use XLM or XRB as payment method?

>>7061396
I bought futures at 11.6K

Can I at least make a moderate profit by Feb 23rd?

>>7064142
I too am a white Utahn, but I still haven't been verified after a week. Fuck you.

A top level brand doesn't lose its lustre overnight. Bitcoin has been shitting the bed for months, bloated, slow, transaction fee shock have sent waves of newfags to ethereum. No mystery why bitcoin is down nobody wants it.

>>7062089
>q-quit it goys, decentralization is never goint to work. Invest your money in a reputable bank like Schlomo & Schlomo's
>it is scared.jpg

What about atomic swaps? Couldn't litecoin be the future payment method while btc is used as a store of value?

Eitherium is great for smart contracts but I doubt we will se it used as a currency.

>>7066345
True
WTF
Mining is so has been. It takes too much energy.
And the tech is slow / expensive as fuck.
Better alternatives exist now.

>>7066419
Is this white utahns general now?

>>7063766
BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH BCASH

>>7066345
>abomination

Why are you even putting your money in to crypto if you just called the mother and father of all crypto an abomination. How fucking stupid are you?

>>7061396
chinese do have the l sound
the japanese are the ones that speak with the r sound

>>7063586
>People won't use wallets. "Be your own bank" will never catch.

they will if the alternative is chewing on a boot and having 56% of their life stolen

>>7062244
This.

>>7059740
The hates comes from latefags salty they missed out on BTC. They shit on btc and shill they shitcoin hoping it will become the new BTC to cope with the fact rhat they did not get in early on the best investment of their lifetime. Realize that most people cannot afford to own one (1) Bitcoin and that drives them mad. Btc is going to 50k and beyond, deal with it and if you don't have your stack you better be a good trader or pray to god your worthless scamcoin ends up being pumped.

At this point I consider anyone not holding btc a nocoiner, monero can hang around but that is about it.

Bitcoin caused many suicides already, from weak habds that sold too early to idiots that never pulled the trigger and its only the beginning. Get fucked nocoiners

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>>7061997
BTC won the moment it breached the Dow Jones. If the illuminati could sink a market that large, we'd currently be in the depression they so desperately want.

its unfortunate it takes an army of loyal core tards to daily spew out the same old crap about the failed segwit fork of bitcoin on biz, but i think they have like a monopoly on the control here as any voice against them is shut down pretty quick

BTC will always be the king crypto. Its the first, and its not being fucked with. Its the safest wealth transfer that everyone accepts, so deal with it.

>>7059161
You should at least hold 1 BTC at all times. If not, you're asking to hate yourself in 10 years.

>>7066909

Does anyone not care about the massive imbalance in btc ownership? Its never going to make it when its so unevenly distributed.

>>7069673
what are you talking about ? you have no idea BTC is most adopted coin. How can you even write that ?

>>7069861
kek..

>>7069673
94% of the coin is controlled by 5% or something iirc

>>7070017
>https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7trxvw/_/
Whatever the percentage, the true digital cash needs to figure out a way to distribute the money fairly and then act like a currency (not deflationary)

>>7062244
/Thread

plankton here with .125 btc

should i sell and convert to eth?

>>7070017

Addresses is not the same as people. There are large exchanges all over the world holding vast amounts of BTC. For the marketcap, BTC is incredible spread out among holders. It was done so organically, too

>>7070512
no dont sell when is going sideways, and dont buy any coin when its mooning.

>>7070587
I think it's impossible to know how many people own what. For sure that 94% don't own everything or else no one would be able to trade on exchanges.

just late adopters. early adopters got into bitcoin for cents or dollars, then into ethereum for less than a dollar, and by that point they were already multi millionaires, and could throw tens of thousands into any new coins that looked worthwhile.

crying about btc being "old" or "outdated" is just crying about being too late.

>>7059771
>6 months

what are you talking about? 6 weeks maybe at the fucking longest. where do you faggots even come from? every time it crashes theres at least 10 of you who always say its going to take upwards of a year to recover

>>7069386
People are loosing money on ln due to bugs. Look it up.


Myspace was first too dumb cunt.

isn't BTC owned by the banks since LN allows fractional IOU's and BCH is the real vision?

Can someone please explain how you can't do fraud on LN? No insults please ;_;
>Make LN Channel to Node connected to retailer
>Make another channel to send myself all my money in a way only I can see, since there is no Blockchain info on the transactions.
>Buy $10,000 worth of garbage
>Close the channel early and then get the bounty on myself by using the channel I made earlier. I now supposedly have all my money and $10,000 worth of free stuff.
How would this not work?

>>7070984
I come from the past
Look at the 2014-2015 graph idiot

>>7071882
Just learnt that this is preventable by having someone watch the blockchain within a predetermined timeout period. So basically have something staying online to protect your funds or you're screwed. Seems very stupid to me.