/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>693259
>Why aren't you an Enrolled Agent yet?

Because I passed the CPA exam.

Cause I live in Canada.

>can represent clients in tax court without being a lawyer

How does this even work?

Pic related is when you show up in court

EA here, ask me anything

>>693420
CPAs and EAs couldn't be more different. Some CPAs also do taxes and even specialize in it, but taxes are a legal matter, not an accounting issue.

>>693443
Almost half of my clients are tax attorneys trying to resolve taxpayer problems. Representing clients in U.S. Tax Court is pretty much the sole purpose of becoming an EA. It's literally why we're a thing. Anyone can rent office space and open up a tax business. You don't need any qualifications for that. Only attorneys and EAs can legally represent their clients in a tax court of law.

>America lets unqualified 4chan shitposters pretend to be tax lawyers and appear in court

>>693696
>pretend

Haha, that's cute, little guy. Really though, EAs are experts in tax law and codes and are not only required to pass a rigorous 3 part exam, but have to attend hearings and meetings annually in order to maintain their license.

>>693700
... it's just an exam and 'attending meetings'? That's even worse than I expected, tbh.

>>693704
http://www.irs.gov/Tax-Professionals/Enrolled-Agents/Enrolled-Agents-Frequently-Asked-Questions

No, but here's some reading for you to do so you understand things better.

>>693706
Im a college dropout that isnt very bright
how well could I do in this field and how hard is it getting past the 3 SEE exams?

>>693707
That's up to you. How hard are you willing to work? How much time are you willing to dedicate to your studies?

Anyone can theoretically study and learn the material well enough to pass. You also have to have a clean record with your returns. There is a possibility of being denied status as an EA, even if you are to pass. It's all at the discretion of the IRS. Exam pass rates for part 1 are 81%, part 2 are 59%, and part 3 are 88%.

>>693706
>look up past papers for the 'rigorous' exam
>the entire thing is true/false and multiple choice
It just gets worse and worse. What is the actual point of all this?
I can only imagine the backlash from the legal profession if they tried something like that here.

>>693259
This just got bumped way up on my list of "plan b"

EA guy in thread. Tell us about your income and hours and such

>>693712
>What is the actual point of all this?

To become legally qualified to represent clients in U.S. Tax Court. That's it.

I don't know why you think taxes are so hard. It's nothing more than memorizing a series of laws.

>>694024
>>693712
It's not like they're defending anyone. They just represent the client before the IRS in case there's an issue and they get it resolved. It's not life or death and they don't defend you like a normal lawyer would in a regular court setting.

They're just individuals who happen to be extremely wary of taxes and how they work.

>>694024
>It's nothing more than memorizing a series of laws.
That's exactly my point. As a lawyer, I can assure you that 'becoming legally qualified' and 'memorising a series of laws' are two completely unrelated things.

>>694296
>As a lawyer

That explains the chip on your shoulder

In any case, attorneys seek the help of EAs constantly. Hardly anyone knows tax law better than seasoned EAs.

>>694364
>people with no qualifications who pass a multiple choice exam are America's foremost experts on tax law
Doesn't even surprise me anymore.

>>693259
bump

>>694370
>hurr durr college makes all the difference

Face it, aspects of your profession can be mastered and accomplished by lowly high school graduates who self-study and pass a three part exam.

Lawyers get BTFO by these guys on taxes regularly.

>>694525
>group of people defined by having lower qualification standards
>inexplicably they're more competent than anyone else
Are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?

>>693686
I'm an accounting student who doesn't want to get a cpa but rather go to law school. Would being an EA improve chances of getting into a tax law job?

>>694579
Yeah, I know a handful of tax attorneys who are also EAs.

>>693259
Signed up for EA online course, I decided to go straight for CPA though. However, EA is an excellent career and requires no education besides passing three exams. The income potential for how easy it is to become an EA is massive and there is no state by state certification. Most people don't even know what an EA is. I work at as a tax preparer at a tax resolution firm.

>>693700
>>693704
>>693706
>>693707
EAs study specifically tax law. Any lawyer who took one course on tax in law school can call themselves a tax lawyer. EA is based because you don't need all the bullshit certification requirements things like CPA make you go through. The real money is in starting a resolution firm though, the business model is really simple and effective. Millions of people have tax issues. You get investors, market heavily on tv & radio, have sales department sell the cases. Usually the cases start at $2,000 and go up from there depending on how much the client owes, how many tax returns they need, and if they owe the IRS/State or both. Then you have the back end of the business which consists of customer service reps, EAs/CPAs/Tax attorneys, and tax preparers. The vast majority of the cases are extremely simple and will end up as a payment plan with the IRS or state (although I have gotten massive settlements, got one lady's offer this week accepted for $875 when she owed 20k). Source: I've worked for one of these firms for two years.

>>693707
It's not easy, but not exceedingly difficult either.

>>694024
You can represent clients for many things: Standard resolution, tax court, audits, and you can also prepare tax returns. It's a very good choice of career for someone who wants to skip college and dive right in. The income potential is actually pretty huge for an experienced EA. There are 48,000 EAs licensed to practice nationwide.

>>694370
You're bitter because people smarter than you can undercut you for the same exact service and spent hundreds of thousands less to get there. Poor lawyer lol.

>>694698
Bitter? I'm not American. There are no EAs here, I hadn't even heard of it until I saw this thread. This issue doesn't affect me personally in any way.
Also, not being American, of course my education didn't cost me anywhere near a hundred thousand dollars anyway.

I just find it concerning that a government would allow any random person to take a multiple choice test and then hold himself out as being some sort of legal expert, even representing people in a court. I gather that EAs probably deal with the very simplest of tax disputes, but even so. If you have a matter which requires any kind of actual legal research, analysis or argument, and you're being represented by someone whose only training was to try and memorise a bunch of rules long enough to pass a test, you're pretty much fucked.

>>694370
Honestly I want to be a tax attorney one day, Ill only go to law school if its Harvard or Yale however.

I have my CPA now and a Masters of Accountancy. We learn a crap ton on tax law and estate planning which is sometimes covered by JDs and I can see why, its really fucking easy to learn. I enjoy it honestly and its probably too much for an individual to research on their own but anybody could learn it with enough time.
Dont act like law school is teaching anything hard buddy, you have to be smart to get in but that doesnt mean you have to be smart to graduate.
Anyways, I never knew about this EA thing, Im going to get it I think instead of the JD. EA and CPA will have me set for covering tax clients right?

>>694736
Tax law isnt the same as criminal law. There should be a right answer and it shouldnt matter on how you convince a collection of random people with no knowledge.

Tax law basically comes down to researching some mildly complicated language through RIA checkpoint and IRS publications. If youre good at writing research reports with scholarly sources you can be good at tax law.

>>694736
>>694742
This. Tax law is literally all rules and regulations. I have seen plenty of lawyers who don't know shit about tax. Also, the way you describe the test doesn't do it justice. You have to know a lot about the tax code to pass it.

>>694736
I'm not even licensed by I can prepare the paperwork for a tax settlement. I can and I have done so. All the EA/attorney has to do is sign the paperwork. This week I got someone a 95% reduction in their back taxes with paperwork that was 100% prepared by me but signed by someone else. It's not that hard. Lawyers aggrandize their position so they can charge more. It's total bullshit. I could settle 90% of tax issues with just work experience in the field. It's not hard, it's just paperwork and rules.

>>694742
>>694746
I work for my country's tax authority. We regularly have disputes with large companies' in-house tax teams, the big four advisory firms and highly experienced lawyers about the correct application of tax law. Sometimes these disputes end up in litigation, and even then the decision can end up being overturned on appeal because even experienced judges come to different views on the law. People far more experienced than you or I still disagree about this stuff all the time.

If you think it's just a straightforward application of a set of rules, I can only assume it's because you've only been exposed to the most simplistic tax issues (which I'm sure is a very good thing).
If all you ever look at are individual salary and wage earners, or perhaps simple small businesses, then the majority of the issues you come across will be pretty easy, and probably won't result in any real disputes anyway. That is, your client gets audited, it's obvious they owe tax, and you negotiate how they're going to pay it. That's easy, not because tax law is easy, but because it doesn't really involve any tax law.

But if you have an actual dispute (the sort of thing people actually hire lawyers for) then tax is one of the most complex areas of law. Tax and IP are pretty much the only areas where practitioners tend to have masters degrees. It's certainly much more complex than criminal law, and also often involves more complex facts.

>>694780
Just because your irrelevant dump puts bologna on a pedestal doesn't make it some grand achievement.

>>694808
I don't think you know what you're trying to say anymore.

>>694780
What country are you from?