/biz/ - Business & Finance

How is electricity use a problem?
And there's alts so what are you complaining about?
The first trains were monstrosities that no one wanted to ride.

>>6780224
Look at fucking crypto. The whole thing is a mess. And alts? What alts name names you deluded cuck. Ill disprove you right now. XMR is currently the only useful coin out of the whole 2000.

>>6780300
Everything's a mess, fucking look outside.
And XMR is BCH for paranoid people.

>>6780300
>>6780150
I don't like to use this word, you seem like a shill.

>>6780372
I have reasons for being paranoid. If the gorvenment saw my networth over the past couple of years. They'd take it all away and give it to Somalian refugees. So I guess monero delivered on what was promised. Give me another coin that delivers on what it promises.
>>6780392
Shilling what. The impending doom of crypto. You all know thid whole thing just ain't right

>>6780150
Because usability develops only when there is demand for it.

Let's take Eth for example. Yes, it's shit right know, but the concept IS useful. As we see more Ethereum-based projects mature (most are rubbish but some are good), there will be more and more use cases. At some point small pioneer companies will start taking advantage of these use cases and after that others will follow or they will be left behind.

These companies will create real demand for speed and security in Eth network. At that point, developing solutions will become extremely profitable. And profits drive all new technologies. Look how fast touch screen technology developed once people started actually demanding it. Tons of other examples as well.

This will all a very natural curve for new tech.

>>6780150

I think XRP and XMR are the only two that are useful, and I believe that these will be the last 2 standing after the cryptopocalypse.

XRP for the lawful economy, XMR for the criminal economy. I only hold XRP because the black market is only about 20% of world GDP and I prefer to bet on the 80% of world GDP.

>>6780467
I get what you're saying, but what the hell are you going to do when you need to spend it?

>>6780522
fiat is for the lawful economy

>>6780224

1. There is not enough electricity in the world for Bitcoin to become a world currency. It only does 600,000 transactions per day, yet consumes as much electricity as 2 million people. There are 7.5 Billion people in the world. I shouldn't have to explain any more.

2. The electricity use is inefficient and the free market eliminates inefficiencies.

>>6780615
>There is not enough electricity in the world for Bitcoin to become a world currency.
Not if everyone closes their nuclear plants there won't be.
There's plenty of energy options out there, and having a more robust energy grid is in the benefit of everyone.
The only reason why we haven't changed our electricity production in decades is because there was no need and now memepanels and windmills, dark age tech is being used to power us, how fucking stupid is that?

>>6780150
Lmao, crypto is utter shite.
It has no future since most coins prefer to fucking focus on some bullshit like "self-publishing" or "Chat network" like fuck me niggers
You have the fucking tools to revolutionize the world of finance and all you can come up with is fucking SELF PUBLISHING?

Crpyto is a fucking joke with no future, it is manipulated to shit and I don't even fucking know why I still have money in this bullshit game.

>>6780795
ayyy somebody gets it

>>6780524
Already changed my citizenship and cashed out. Only have a total of over 100 BTC left across various exchanges.
>>6780551
Xrp may soon be very useful if Garlinghouse is not larping. 60/40 chance
>>6780615
This the more you think about it. The more retarded it all sounds.
>>6780795
Prove there is enough enough dormant energy in the world to sustain BTC at visa bandwidth rates. Protip, you unironically can't.

>>6780795

Thanks for explaining that it's actually cheaper to get robbed by the banks and governments than it is to triple global energy production just to run "Satoshi's vision."

>>6780499
>Dubs of stupidity
ETH is unusable. Smart contracts are flawed and insecure. Its unusable for a modern day enterprise. The ETH money skelly speaks about is decades away. This shit you guys hold right now is a joke

>>6780862
>Prove there is enough enough dormant energy in the world to sustain BTC at visa bandwidth rates. Protip, you unironically can't.
That's the point, regardless of whether there is even if there isn't then it will have helped find a decent solution to our energy problems by necessity of it.
Humans tend to excell under pressure, not when playing for peanuts.
Why do you think the Cold War was the greatest era of human technological advancement since the Industrial Revolution?
Because everyone thought they were going to die.

>>6780862
why cant bitcoin exist as a large coin gold standard kinda thing and something like raiblocks/stellar/ripple facilitate the payments. Hell there are companies that are integrating crypto payments. It will be done, bitcoin won't be the main method of transaction but it will always be the gold standard

>>6780937
Link related https://coincenter.org/entry/do-you-really-need-a-blockchain-for-that most current use cases for crypto are disqualified. Only the hype is blinding common men to the absurdity and stupidity going on around. Muh white paper.

>>6780615
>2. The electricity use is inefficient and the free market eliminates inefficiencies.

yet a single bitcoin is worth more than 10K

>>6780795
>dark wold tech
>earths dieing
>but muh coinz

im with the public on this one. Im in for memepanels and windmills if it helps the earth

>>6780997
It won't, it will just take up space that's already at a primer.
It needs to be compact, renewable and efficient, which none of those are.

>>6780947

Because when you dig up actual gold, the energy is only expended once. You can then keep your gold for thousands, even millions of years without having to expend additional energy.

With bitcoin, you not only have to expend huge sums of energy to "mine" each bitcoin, but you have to continuously expend additional energy in order to maintain the existence of all the bitcoins. If massive amounts of energy are not continuously expended to maintain the blockchain, then the blockchain will die and all bitcoins will become worthless.

>>6780993

The growth of altcoins that consume less electricity is how the free market eliminates bitcoin's inefficiencies.

>>6780943
So you want to make certain of the demise of centralisation and gorvenmental control by increasing the output of often gorvenment subsided energy sources. Nice.

>>6780150
We are definitely heading towards a tech break though but I believe it is too early to invest. At this point it is entirely speculation but something great will come of this.

>>6781125

XRP

You are legit retarded if you don't think crypto is the future.

>global currency and secure storage of wealth
>crosses national boarders
>zero barriers to conduct commerce with the entire world
>no central point of failure
>decentralized app infrastructure will completely obsolete AWS, Azure, etc.
>internet infrastructure will be revolutionized, eg CDNs will be obsolete
>cyber security will be revolutionized
>modern economics will have to be completely rethought due to central banks becoming obsolete

You are stuck up on the implementation of it, but there are so many things coming out even this year that will start to fix all the problems you mentions. 2018 will be absolutely huge for crypto, 2019 too. You are fucking insane or retarded not to at least have some exposure to crypto. And wallstreet is realizing that too. There is $100T equity market about to hedge a portion of that into crypto, and even people allocating a couple % to crypto will blow this market up to ridiculous levels.

>>6781031
>>6780997
But take a look at this though, very interesting.
https://www.volker-quaschning.de/articles/fundamentals2/index_e.php
>>6781104
kek
Hey in a perfect ancap world I'd own a satoshi of a nuclear fusion plant but that's not the case is it?

Crypto, especially bitcon has been a joke since 2011. Nothing has fundamentally changed except for the retards in teh bubble.

>>6780615
>There is not enough electricity in the world for Bitcoin to become a world currency.
this is not how it works, this is not how any of this works

electricity usage is a self regulating problem, retard. Also it's absolutely not related to scale - you don't need more power to process more transactions.

>>6780615

Bitcoin power usage is based on using up as much power as you can, but there is no base requirement for power. It could process the same amount of transactions even if only 1/10th the power was available.

Look up how proof-of-work works to keep the network secure.

>>6781056
Cold storage is a thing.

You can argue the same points against gold. In order to sell gold, there's a massive network of mutually agreed upon factors that allow me to transfer gold to other parties. Gold exchange shops, websites that allow me to ship my gold off, exchanges that let me trade gold for something else.

I'd venture that running a few computers doesn't add up to the facilities costs of places like Fort Knox and its equivalents around the globe.

>>6780150
Why do people always put monero as an exception. If Monero was pushing the volume that ETH and BTC were pushing it would have the same problems lmfao

>>6781365
>there are retards that unironically think that more miners = more transactions

>>6781104
Yes!
Sounds good!
Hate banks and hate bankers. They were necessary to save money. Not anymore!
Also hate Wall Street for destabilising the economy!

>>6781202
Show me the use cases fuck face. You've been reading too much white papers.
>So many things coming out this year
Point them out. You can't. This is the mindless buzzwording I'm talking about. Sure crypto challenges many things, but does it take them on and solve them efficiently. As the hype dies down, it'll all become clear
>>6781205
Kek
>>6781254
>Crypto, especially bitcon has been a joke since 2011. Nothing has fundamentally changed except for the retards in teh bubble.
This. If you take a step back and look at it. Its just disturbing
>>6781294
Transactions are positively correlated to energy consumption

>>6781386
See
>>6780467
Based fluffy

>>6780467
Bazingacoin already has a working product faggot

>>6781434
>Transactions are positively correlated to energy consumption
lol, explain then why do we have same 1mb blocks with same ~2000 transactions for years, yet the power consumption increased tremendously.

>>6780150
How is Ethereum insecure?
Slowness is a relative. It has the fastest smart contract blockchain which is not running on a handful of centralized nodes.

Also, development of new groundbreaking tech takes time, it's not another dating app.

>>6781294
>electricity usage is a self regulating problem, retard.

YES! And that's why the market is moving away from Bitcoin and all Proof of Work cryptocurrencies! RETARD!

>>6781202
you are legit retarded if you think crypto is the future lmao
>he thinks sovereign countries will give up on their sovereign currencies
>he doesn't know what's R3 corda and hashgraph
>he doesn't know mastercard and visa are implementing the blockchain technology in their network without issuing any shitcoin
>he thinks he can decentralize services like AWS,google with better results (congrats on that seriously)
>he thinks normies are willing to use crypto with this crazy volatility
>he doesn't know what a loan is
>you're stuck up on the implementation of it
yeah 10 years are not enough to find just ONE real use case beside speculation

>>6781434

Did you read my post, I pointed out like 7 huge, world changing use cases. I'm not going to specifically name every project, DYOR, there hasn't been token sales or a way to invest yet in them. There are many different scaling solutions for the blockchain circling around right now, including layers on top of the blockchain (like LN, sharding, plasma) and alternatives to the blockchain (hashgraph). And there are many implementations of each design for different chains.

We are so early in this space, its like being in the 80s when computer networking was being revolutionized. The implications will be huge. Be a pleb and sit on the sidelines if you want, but 10 years from now you will understand.

>>6781082
exxcept bitcoin dying takes all altcoins with it
i think the free market isn't very rational.

>>6781533
im talking about the difficulty readjustments and so retard
>>6781560
bad contract code and architecture

>>6781202
>>crosses national boarders
you're fucking retarded if you think visa can't wire money across borders with ease. the limitation is legal, not technological.

>>6781628

You really don't understand blockchain technology if you think any single entity like visa could simply deploy an alternative. Why would the world invest in a system controlled by one single company when there is a bitcoin if solutions that scale are built on top of it?

>>6780300
>>6780392
>>6780467
https://yourbrainonporn.com/

>>6781696
my same thought lmao
he is just shilling some buzzword he doesn't even understand

>>6781454
And? What advances has XMR made over the past year? Basically, nothing too. It will suffer from the same scalability problems that ETH and BTC suffer from when enough criminals start using it for drugs, money laundering and enough currency speculators start pumping it and trading it like they do every other currency.

You shit on ETH because its unusable, slow, and insecure. Yeah, because people are actually using it. lmfao. Once your precious XMR starts hitting high volume it will get fucked too unless developers start sorting it out.

>>6781667
>bad contract code and architecture
Proceed. If you mean the buggy contract code written by some devs, that's not ethereum's fault.

>>6781628

>he unironically thinks hashgraph will make blockchain obselete

You must have an associates degree in computer science. The rest of us big dick chads are already CS masters.

>>6781652

This is only a temporary phenomenon. When the top 1% that controls a collective $250+ Trillion chooses a winner, nobody will care about BTC or 99.9% of altcoins anymore. Protip: The top 1% likes regulation and centralization, and they like XRP.

Anyone who cares about protecting their wealth will sell their shitcoin runner-up for the winner, XRP. Anyone who doesn't want to buy into XRP will probably move their money into XMR because of its privacy and real-world acceptance in the black markets.

>>6781696
>>6781741

The legal barriers are exactly my point. The system is decentralized. That's the advantage. There is no one entity that can control it or block you from using it.

>>6780150
XRB works but the market is too busy chasing vaporware pumps and headlines to realize it

>>6781644
Name a few. Thats all I asked. and Ill prove them wrong here right now
>>6781371
http://www.wdrb.com/story/35498037/military-base-closures-targeted-in-trump-budget
https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
Take out your calculator
>>6781748
XMR does its job well. i dont mind paying a premium for anonymity

>>6781824
>Name a few. Thats all I asked

see >>6781202

>>6781628
>he thinks sovereign countries will give up on their sovereign currencies
>what is Venezuela
no one says it will happen willingly, but if certain portion of people will switch to a certain currency government will have to adapt or start a civil war
>hashgraph
unproven vaporvare
>mastercard and visa are implementing the blockchain technology in their network
blockchain has 0 value without decentralization and consensus

>>6781725
http://fortune.com/2017/10/20/mastercard-blockchain-bitcoin/
because it already fucking works and it doesn't have 10$ fees you dense mf


"Like IBM, Mastercard is also targeting cross-border payments between businesses as the primary purpose for its blockchain, which can only be used by invitation. The Mastercard blockchain, however, differs from the tech giant’s in an important way: While the IBM blockchain only transmits money in the form of Lumens, a virtual currency created by the non-profit Stellar, Mastercard’s blockchain operates independently of a cryptocurrency, and instead accepts payments in traditional local money."

>>6781847
The tokens solving this

>>6781824
Looks like we agree, both gold and bitcoin are costly expenditures.

Just imagine the waste of human capital if we went back to bartering though.

>>6781873

lmao DYOR, or be lazy and buy my bags at 100x after everyone as already discovered and FOMOed.

>>6781667
>im talking about the difficulty readjustments and so retard
what about it?
just answer my question, genius, and explain why power consumption is growing if amount of transactions is not.

>>6781854
venezuela is not giving up on their sovereign currency, they want to test the "petro" which will be centralized
https://www.investopedia.com/news/venezuela-petro-not-cryptocurrency/
yeah vaporwave just like corda r3, fuck off already
read my reply to the other faggot

>>6781797
good luck getting retailers into using crypto if it gets banned lol

>>6782296

Banned by who? One government? 10 governments? Every government in the world? Look at Japan, they are embracing crypto and have benefited tremendously from China and Korea's mistakes. If governments try to crack down, other will see the opportunity and embrace it. We are living in an increasingly globalized economy, the actions of one government are becoming more and more irrelevant.

>>6781750
Solidity language itself is poorly designed and unsuited to writing code that needs to be verifiably correct.

>>6781628

Hahaha have fun paying trillions to the tax man so the boomers can keep all their benefits until they're 98, all I know is that I won't pay for that shit...

>>6782412
yes, an opportunity to get into the "greater fool" cycle
blockchain technology has a future, "decentralize everything" shitcoins with limited supply no

>>6782686
>fucking with the IRS
oh boi you know nothing

>>6780150
I'm unironically all in on BCH. When Bitcoin split on August it wasn't BCH that was the only fork. BTC in its current form is also a fork. Just because it is a 'soft' fork doesn't mean it isn't a fork.

Unfortunately most Core supporters and developers really have no understanding about how bitcoin even works. At its heart Bitcoin isn't primarily a "cryptocurrency" -- it's an economic competitive game. The security is economic in nature. That is why Core has made such tremendous mistakes with it -- they may be good at certain things, they may be good cryptographers or whatever, but they don't understand economics or the structure that makes Bitcoin work. It's why they keep saying stuff like bigger blocks will centralize the network because not everybody will be able to run a node. If they knew how the network model worked they would know that is a totally false statement. Nobody's home node is EVER going to put a transaction into a block. Non mining nodes add nothing to the system. Bitcoin is not a mesh network with a bunch of little node hops. It is a tightly connected network of MINING nodes (emphasis) and it is the MINERS that decide what goes into a block. Miners vote with their CPU power. People don't understand and thinks running their home node adds some kind of decentralization or benefit to the system -- it does not. In fact, leaving the block capped at 1MB has done tremendous harm to the security of bitcoin, as evidenced by its total loss of market dominance and the fracturing of the cryptocurrency economy into all these little altcoins and different blockchains. 99% of altcoins could have been done on the Bitcoin network if it had been allowed to grow freely.

Fortunately we still have the original roadmap of Bitcoin in the form of BCH. It will take it a while to become apparent, but soon enough it will be obvious which system works, and which one does not.

>>6782758

Yeah I'm sure all those tax havens like liechtenstein and the cayman islands are starving because no one can ever escape the almighty IRS...

>>6782725

>muh private blockchains

you have to be truly retarded to not understand that a private blockchain is no different than a sql database

good luck paying for the boomers after all smart people have jumped the ship retard

I belive in crypto but I think it's a loong timeframe.
By 2020, we'll maybe start seeing what technology is worth focusing on.
By 2023, the market will calm down enough for crypto to be used in actual business

these exact years where obviously pulled out of my ass

>>6782870
>he thinks he can get into tax heavens with his 10k in shitcoins

>>6780300
Please don't ever post an image like this in your life again. I just ended my 1 week fap. This board is a fucking meme, where can i go to have a decent conversation without being fed sexy women 24/7

>>6783000

my 10k shitcoins are in a tax haven retard, in the biggest tax haven the world has ever seen that will keep growing with the money from people that will not keep paying for the boomers and your useless politicians

>>6782870
you're fucking stupid if you think a database is the same as a private blockchain
fucking retard, educate yourself first and learn what r3 corda is doing

>>6783110
yeah sure kid keep dreaming lol
prove it or gtfo fucking cum waste

>>6783184

Name a single benefit of a private blockchain.

>>6783268
https://www.coindesk.com/corda-cargo-r3-inks-another-trade-finance-partnership/
G T F O R I G H T F U C K I N G N O W

>>6781628
PRL and IOTA

gl buddy

>>6781727
you are doing gods work anon

>>6782465
the way you worded this makes me 100% sure you have no fucking grounds to make this claim

>>6783268
https://www.coindesk.com/r3s-corda-platform-launches-on-amazon-web-services/
what do your shitcoins do ? oh right, they are speculative assets

>>6783268
https://www.coindesk.com/r3-microsoft-expand-partnership-to-boost-corda-dlt-adoption/
are you not entertained?

>>6782412
Japan's 20 years behind the first-world west. It's a dying nation of old people that refuses to change.I live in a third world country and I have Japanese friends here who find the 400 eurobuck minimum salary superior to living in a socially claustrophobic, economically stagnating Nippon.

Embracing crypto fits the national love of gambling alright, though. Go visit 2ch (if you can read moon, which I doubt), the Japs are even more deluded that /biz/tards when it comes to crypto.

>>6783184

Getting angry that you private """"blockchains"""" are nothing more than a glorified sql database??

Good luck keeping the governments away from those private ""blockchains" the banks are building, so they can pay trillions in useless jet fighters and in benefits to brown immigrants and boomers.

Meanwhile my real blockchains won't pay for shit and won't be raided by the government to pay for niggers welfare.

The free market will speak retard.

>>6783268
https://www.coindesk.com/south-korean-nh-bank-joins-r3-distributed-ledger-consortium/
are you still there ?

>>6783468
yeah good luck using your shitcoins inr while they are being pumped and dumped by some pajeets on a discord group lmao

>>6781628
The whole point of blockchain is the decentralization, you mong. Otherwise what you have is an overpriced database. Mastercard and Visa don't need blockchain for shit.

>>6783588

Just the thought of retards like you that think people and companies will keep paying trillions to support government officials, lawyers, useless military, niggers welfare, boomers pensions, etc etc

Yet you really don't understand why the FREE market will choose public blockchains, you're gonna have a reality check soon kid.

>>6783644
>what's trustless interoperability between entities in a consortium?
this board is full of deluded pajeets

>>6781628
>he thinks sovereign countries will give up on their sovereign currencies
>what is the Eurozone?

>>6783696
the free market is chosing to use your shitcoins to make some real money lmao
fuck outta here

>>6781780
>Bragging about going to college
You aren't even hiding the fact that you're a brainlet.

>>6783409
>>6783457
>>6783489
>>6783878

Why are you shilling corda so hard?

>>6783878
Buzzwords, or a gimped version of decentralization shouldering most of the burdens for few of the benefits. Take your pick. "Trustless" interoperability between known entities has always been possible, all it takes is getting said players to sit down at the table and this is still what it'll take in the future. Using blockchain technology as a way to bypass industry's natural tendency to create a dozen competing standards is not entirely without merit, but it also boils down to using the internet for facebook. Facebook doesn't make the rest of the internet useless, and corda won't make public cryptos useless, the use cases are drastically different.

>>6781727
should I stop jerking off ? I feel like shit all the time. Apathetic and bored. Even though a make mad gains on crypto I still want to fucking kill myself. Is nofap really not just a meme ?

>>6782799

I agree with everything you said but do you think BCH really has a chance?
some of the smartest people I follow are all bullish on BTC. personally I think its been kiked and Im very pessimistic about it. but I dont know if the market will ever figure it out and I cant see BCH taking a top spot in the crypto game any time soon. maybe if they roll out exciting new tech and show how things *should* be done.

>>6784633
Its not a meme. Same is being vegan is not a meme. Do your research to prove it to yourself.

>>6784633
Idk but in my experience I go a week or so at a time not masturbating whenever I travel and it feels like I have a clear head and more energy.

>>6785218
Vegan/nofap

Waw. Let me guess... you’re a poor socialist bitch

>>6782799
Bitcoin forked to, it just didn't result in a hard fork split like bcash because the nodes didn't signal for it and thus consensus was not reached. When the blocks are 8x larger, average people won't be able to run a full node on their laptop any longer and makes running nodes more centralized, which in return let's a small handful of people change the rules of the network with their large mining factories and nodes running on centralized cloud storage

>>6786518
what do nodes do to change the rules of the network?

>>6786567
if the majority of nodes along with majority of mining % signals for upgrades to the network it forks. Bitcoin can and probably will reach consensus to upgrade to 2mb blocks along with lightning network

>>6784633
It's a fucking meme. Fapping makes you actually happy.

>>6781056
once green energy is used how is virtual mining of coins worse than the mining of a resource? Less risk, more reward; limited supply thats known? less environmental damage. Guarantee mining has caused 100x the environmental harm over the course of its existence. Plus all the people who die in the process?
Energy is expended once but the footprint is larger and forever.

>>6780150
ETH is doing exactly what it was designed to do. serve as a token factory for scammers.

>>6780615
The absolute state of /biz/ everyone. You have absolutley no idea what you are talking about. I really hope you are trolling.

>>6784106
you cant shill a coin you cant buy lmfao

>>6787085
he is autistic but eventually green energy will make it possible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3boy_tLWeqA
it is decentralized

>>6784633
As with anything in life, you gotta do it with moderation. Find what's the ideal for your body.
If you nut every day you'll just boringly keep doing that, it's not satisfying and it deprives you of energy, you don't masturbate because you want to, but because you just... sort of need to.

Just take a break. Edging is fine for me, might not be for you, I'm okay with fapping super hard once a week or fucking my gf, I have super low libido and if I fap every day I feel depressed and hazy.

>>6780615
electricity is no problem when you have fields of solar pannels, free and unlimited energy will be avaible before all BTC are mined

>>6781790
Actually you right. The elite will also make use of XMR to hide their wealth. Just like tax havens.