/biz/ - Business & Finance

they just printed another 100M
this shit will be the end of crypto, they're basically printing money out of thin air to keep btc over 10k

>>6650104

If they exit scam, doesn't matter what coin you hold, it will lose almost all its value. Tether genuinely risks actually crashing the whole market.

>>6650104
i wish i could short it with 50x leverage

>>6650174
>>6650173
kraken.com offers usd/usdt trading
>>6650215
already shorted with lower leverage?

>>6650104
its not a scam if its in their TOS that u agree you cant cash out, cant class action, and anything they change or is 'vague' in the TOS is not their fault

inb4 oh no BTC is going below 10k

let's just print 100 mil tether

don't bite the hand that feeds

>>6650327

The US essentially killed bitconnect - too bad they can't do the same for Tether huh.

>>6650327
>Believing TOS are above law

How does it keep btc above 10k exactly?

>>6650731
Print tether, buy bitcoin. Arbitrage between usdt exchange and USD exchange. Wash trade tether to keep it at parity with USD

>>6650174
and yet no one is fucking talking about it on a serious level. It's nuts

Why is tether a problem, even if it isn't backed by real money? The fact is that you can exchange it for other cryptocurrencies at a rate parallel with real money, and then exchange back afterwards. Actual fiat money behind it would make no difference to the use of it.

Tether isn't going anywhere. If you knew exactly how the Fed was able to print trillions in QE without hyperinflating the dollar, you would see how the same strategy has been employed with tether as a weapon against the federal reserve.

The U.S. government will not stop the counterfeit dollars inflating BTC from tether, because it would expose the same strategy used to inflate the stock market.

It was called alchemy a long time ago, it still works amazingly.

>>6650173
wow 100m! you mean like they do everyday! what a shocker!

Just exchanged all my tether for fiat on Kraken. its over

>>6650215
>>6650215
It seems to me theres almost no downside risk to shorting it? USDT will never ever ever go above $1.02, under any circumstance.

But it can always go a lot lower, pennies on the dollar if they pull any shady shit or are actually insolvent.

>>6651718
yes

>>6651718

Why would it ever go above or below the value of a dollar? ;)

You guys crack me up. Tether will stay valued at $1 as long as the illusion holds that it is backed by fiat and thus always worth one dollar.

>>6651790
>Why would it ever go above or below the value of a dollar? ;)
You mean like right now where it is worth $1.02?

>>6651718
>>6651790
There is a freely traded usdt/USD market on kraken and it regularly goes up to 1.03, its even been up to 1.07. Months ago it also went to 0.9x.

>>6651879
thats almost no risk

>>6651844
>>6651879

Sure, tethers can gain a few cents with demand, lose a few cents in a sell off, that's simply because some traders are willing to pay a slight premium for liquidity, or lose a slight amount to jump back to crypto quickly.

How does that change what I said?

Truely WOKE niggas know that the value of both USD and USDT is the same.

Zero.

>>6651916
Yes. Kraken also offers leverage on that pair so you can short.

>>6651965
You must be a nigger if you can't understand that 1.04 != 1.00.

>>6652021

That's not entirely true as long as the delusion of "real" money holds.

>>6651790
It goes up and down for a variety of reasons but my point is that variation is tight and predictable.

If USDT company goes insolvent because they've pulled an exit scam or printed shitloads of pretend money, the price of USDT will crash to pennies. That'd make your shorts really good.

>>6652094
i swear you are the only sane person here

>>6652050

You must be a chink

I've met niggers smarter than you

So if the price of gas changed from $3 to $4 and back to $3 in a day, did the gas price change or did the value of a dollar?

>>6652094

Jesus Christ where did you all learn macro econ

USDT cannot crash unless we invade the British Virgin Islands.

>>6651474
comparing tether with the FED is like comparing you local craft beer to InBev.

Start fucking up with inbev sales and they will crush you to death.

>>6650173
If it works for the fed why can't it work for crypto

other than using futures for shorting all of crypto... how do you short a particular stock... is there option trading somewhere that I don't know about.

>>6652280

Exactly.

They are using a bankers trick and it can't be stopped because that same trick is why the USD has value right now.

>>6652280
>>6652280
It can totally work for crypto. It doesnt even matter if they print money out of thin air, as long as everyone using it assumes it is still backed.

USDT is a really interesting currency and I swear their business model is easy as fuck.
>Take money from neets
>Buy bonds with half the money
>Get audited so it all checks out
>Keep accepting money from neets, payout whenever anyone asks, keep buying bonds and t-bills

I dont understand why they'd need to print usdt without having it backed with cash or bonds. Unless they're purely bullish on btc and want to scoop it up at sub 10k, but thats not whats happening.

>>6651439
THIS

When they get audited it is actual the bubble bursting. Hope you all can take these losses.

>>6652288
Most brokers and exchanges will let you short equity. You'll need collateral for margin though.

Otherwise, try put options. Similar leverage but the cost is up front.

Yes goy, tether is ending crypto

As long as they have the liquidity to buy back when the market starts falling below $1 they are fine.

>>6652288
Does anybody have an answer for this?

How do you option trade in crypto? How in the hell do you think you can short anything?

Futures can short the entire crypto market but not one particular one like USDT.

>>6652500
yes Ive done many option trading for stocks.
never for crypto.
never seen a place to buy a call for ethereum for instance. what am I not understanding

>>6650321
Kraken is not big enough to support a bank run on tether, plus they only pay you USD as long they have faith in being able to trade it to someone else. The USD they pay out is not coming from Tether inc's currency account.

>>6652438
Have you ever tried to buy usdt? Its closed to the us market and everyone I know in the EU that tried to buy tethers directly from the EU via wire couldn't.

>>6652565
You borrow coins from the exchange or a funding market to sell at the current price.

>>6652487

Lmao

If you only knew the state of global economies

You know all the immigration in Europe is so they have more citizens with high net worths (avg is negative so zero is high) to keep debt solvency (Deutschbank)

You know China builds empty cities because they need the infrustructural assets to keep the low currency legit on paper?

You know that canada is about to have a massive real estate crisis, since the whole country rode out bailout and is primarily on var rates?

The stock market is only high because the Fed was purchasing assets with money they poofed into existance to increase market caps so the companies had enough equity to borrow away the liabilities?

What the fuck future do you think there is if crypto pops?

>>6652816
9/10 FUD. nice reddit spacing

>>6652816
What's the utility of crypto if everything else is fake? Crypto demands a highly advanced civilisation with incredibly fast communications, and constant reduction in technology costs (storage, bandwidth). If everything collapses crypto won't survive.

>>6652789
you can "borrow" coins from an exchange? either you are an idiot or 99% of people don't know about this

>>6652939
Krakens leveraged trading is literally taking from their own coin reserves. Bitfinex has a market for funding. What are you not getting?

>>6651439
Because bank runs.

Go look up fractional reserve banking.

>>6652565
How do you think shorting works? Go on an exchange where you can do margin trading, anything you can borrow you can short. Look up "margin trading crypto". btw don't do any margin trading because you clearly don't know the first thing about it.

>>6652937
>>6652925


Apple is bringing back those billions to the us and BUYING BACK THEIR STOCK with it LMAO

Crypto like btc is just gold that is easily accessible. Sure there are some like cash, some like stocks, but it's a finite asset that cannot be faked.

That means when it all comes down, we can still fucking barter without bullets.

>>6653032
But he is an experienced options trader. We are clearly talking to a self made millionaire right now.

>>6653005

Do a bank run when there's no bank and processing times take weeks

Alrighty then son

>>6653057
Apple is buying its own stock to boost internal returns because there's not much else to do with the pile of money they're sitting on. Not sure what this has to do with your narrative.

>>6653174

>>6653057
Wtf are you talking about? If it all comes crashing down mining isn't profitable. Even a small increase in the cost of electricity makes mining unprofitable. If you have gold in your safe it will still be there after a collapse. The bitcoin/whatevercoin networks will be so degraded they won't work anymore.

>>6653182
I think he is trying to argue that when the bubble pops in the works global economy that bitcoin will make it through the collapse. As in every node and miner will somehow continue as before in a collapsed economy.

>>6653174
None of this will prevent Kraken from going belly up if everyone decides to cash out at the same time. MtGox had a waiting list of TWO YEARS when it was found to be insolvent. If anything processing times this long world raise more questions for me than it would answer. Crypto is currency, it's liquidity should be immediate.

>>6653364
Why would kraken go belly up if people withdraw tethers? They don't deposit tether as USD. They deposit them as tether and let you trade them on an open market. Ofc if kraken had no customers it wouldn't be a viable business anymore but I don't get why you would try to point that out?

>>6653182

>>6653293


Dear Lord

Electricity won't go anywhere. It won't be blood in the streets overnight dipshits

But we are in for global regime changes over the next decade, and central bank failures

The grid isn't gonna fall apart lmao

>>6653057
Again, nice reddit spacing defeatist
>>6653293
>Even a small increase in the cost of electricity makes mining unprofitable
>mining difficulty doesn't decrease

>>6653364
Wash traders will come in to buy up tether you twit. You dont have to worry about "everyone selling all at once"

discord gg/3fW7bzr

>>6653293

Mining won't be profitable because you can't measure it in fiat anymore, is that your position lmao

>>6653577
I'm assuming a worst case scenario where people lose confidence in tether and wants to get rid of it.

>>6653077
Calm down there pup. I option trade stocks. I use binance and kukoin. You can't option trade there. Case solved. If ur that desperate for an argument you might be due for a fap session

>>6653754
I cant see that happening. Tether is far too useful and profitable

>>6653574
>>6653706
>>6653534
Durr hurr my magic internet money will hit the moon when my internet, mobile, and electricity costs quintuple.

>>6653797
You just had multiple explanations of how shorting works in multiple exchanges and you still don't get it. You are a literal nigger tier retard.

>>6653523
Because Kraken trades tether like any other currency, if it loses to much value and Kraken is sitting on a pile of it unable to unload it into the market and Tether cannot honor it's claim of having every tether with a dollar, it's game over. I'm only bringing this up because people think Kraken os a viable exit strategy in case anything happens to Tether; it isn't. Kraken depends on people having faith in our much like everyone else.

>>6650321
>Didn't see the wash trading on Kraken
good luck bro.

>>6653944

How will they price kw/h absent fiat?

>>6654118
I just explained to you that arb bots wouldnt let that happen. Do you realize how profitable it is for them?

>>6654118
Kraken don't stockpile usdt. A usdt deposit on kraken is separate from a USD deposit. If the price tanks its the customers who hold the market risk not kraken. This is different on exchanges like bitfinex who accept usdt as USD. Bitfinex is insolvent if tether is fake.

>>6654309
Mfw when a guy spends 3 hours in a breadline then asks me if I accept magic internet money that takes a week to clear.

>>6651474
>weapon against federal reserve

Yeah, this will turn out awesome for the people wielding this weapon!

>>6654607

tether is definitely fake. There's no way they are storing the dollars to back it up if you consider its current market cap and the rate at which they print tether.

Even if it was a fractional reserve they'd still be fucked because there's no deposit insurance or regulatory oversight to prevent becoming insolvent on a bank run.

>>6654879
I agree with you I'm saying kraken isn't exposed to that market risk. Their depositors are. Kraken doesn't recognise tether deposits as USD like other exchanges. It recognises them as tether.

Can someone give me a good reason why I shouldn't short tether with a couple grand on Kraken and wait for the inevitable

>>6655057
I wasn't disagreeing with you either, I was just reaffirming the idea that tether is a scam.

>>6651474
> unironically comparing iFinex with the US Federal Government

>>6655163
that happens a lot on this board.

"If the FED can print money why can't crypto exchanges?"

>>6650798
I'm not sure I understand the middle step. Can you explain that?

To me, the scam is simply: Print Tether & sell it to morons for real (fiat) currency. Never have to buy it back or redeem it. Pure profit. If that supports crypto prices along the way, so be it.

>>6651439
Once people acknowledge that it has no backing, the next sucker.. er 'investor' won't want to take it in exchange for his crypto.
the emperor has no clothes.

>>6655529
Even worse, almost every major exchange deals in tether instead of USD to bypass money laundering laws and other regulations. Crypto is largely illiquid and transitioning into literal monopoly money with the backing of this retarded tether meme. The market went to complete shit when the pumping started. Now it's pretty much gambling where you are looking at 1000% gains one day and a 404 everything gone sorry the next day.

>>6652438
They don't allow real audits though, despite suffering criticism because of that.

And in that case, why even buy bonds with half the money? Fuck it. Party Time!

>>6654879
>Even if it was a fractional reserve they'd still be fucked because there's no deposit insurance or regulatory oversight to prevent becoming insolvent on a bank run.
But since they have not duty to redeem them, why would they even bother maintaining a fractional reserve?

>>6650104

The reserve funds should be held in escrow by a reputable institution in a way that anyone is able to see the balance at any time on a webpage

>>6655465
That is not the biggest problem with tether. New tether is also coming into existence through Bitfinex using its own assets to buy it, meaning it might be slowly turning the account balances of its customers from USD into USDT silently. And both companies are owned by the same group, this is really fucked up.

>>6656219

bitfinex doesnt hold any usd, they list their pairs as usd but it is really usdt

>>6655732
It's interesting to speculate about the ultimate end of all this though. I wonder if anyone will ever do any actual jail time, for instance?

Does anyone even know how much 'real' (fiat) money is actually invested in the entire crypto domain so far?

>>6656063
so they can maintain confidence in their business and continue being profitable.

>>6656063
Because the peg makes people feel more secure even if it's meaningless in the end. Tether is currently being used as a hedge against devaluation.

>>6656127
>should be

kek

They did have something like this until their US banking support fell out. It started out as a seemingly legitimate startup with what I guess were good intentions. After the banking fell out they went completely apeshit. For example they literally reversed the China fud at 3500USD and they will reverse this crash too. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing 500 mil pumps soon.

People look at BTC valution and think the 12k stands for dollars, but that's not true. There's a whole bunch of air priced in with pumps coming in to break the trends at the most convenient times.

>>6656219
Yeah, and they're hooked up with some shady shithole bank in Poland or somewhere since they got dumped by their other banks.

>>6656358
>>6656367
Yeah, but absent any actual proof (audit), they can claim anything they want anyway. Or is there some layer of oversight here that I'm not aware of?

>>6656320
>Does anyone even know how much 'real' (fiat) money is actually invested in the entire crypto domain so far?

It doesn't matter, because the bubble has created a media frenzy, which has lured a lot of dumb money in with the promise of an exponential growth. Once the conveniently timed pumps go away, the house of cards will fall and the true price will be revealed. A lot of money will disappear from the market cap and from people's accounts who are using exchanges.

>>6650104
>he want tether to end

>>6656395
Now that you hear about crypto on the TV business channels, it's surprising (sad?) that none of the would be journalists even bother to mention this.

>>6652280
And this is what most people fail to realize.

I have a question tho

why doesnt the printing of new tether devalue the existing tether? its always 1$, doesnt this undermine supply and demand laws?

>>6656676
Because people are willing to pay for it. I have paid for it and not given it a second thought, because it's highly liquid.

>>6656717
then what prevents them from printing?

>>6656478
Everyone continues to pile onto USDT while ignoring the house of cards it is built upon.

When Tether collapses it will destroy the liquidity of exchanges, bringing down the value of cryptocurrency with it.

>>6656882
angry neckbeards on the internet. But in all seriousness nothing. Ideally they would only print more once they gained access to enough USD, but there's no way to know if that is the case.

>>6656676
Because they claim that new tether represents new dollars on their account 1 to 1.

>>6657085
>>6657169
and you're OK with that I assume

hope you guys realize that tether is making you all rich right now. IN TETHER WE TRUST

>>6652565

kraken has the most margin pairings i think

>>6657498
And the purpose of this thread is to help u realize tether can also make u very poor very quick

>>6656882
Nothing. We will see 500mil pumps soon.

>>6652280
Maybe because the Fed is essentially a financial wing of the most relevant nation in earth post WWII? Compared to tether being a platform for people to trade internet money

>>6657481
I can see why people would be OK with that (the profits), but have no horse in this race. I admit it does in fact look highly suspicious.

Would the way to find out the actual value of the market be, to go through and sum the total of tethers issued on that page?

Im not sure what it was but it indicated whenever a bunch of tether just suddenly was created and then issued.

Im not entirely sure how it all works, but when you think of it, how is it different from the treasury printing a stack of bills, giving it to say, bitfinex taking it to a bank and then using "real backed us dollars" to inject into the crypto market. In general, asset creation out of an idea magically creates value and therefore "money" (if you see money as a store of value) out of thin air right? Like for instance if someone sells their autographs and everyone decides theyre worth $10 each, the person can essentially keep "creating value" out of thin air. Ive most likely confused myself and said some dumb horseshit, but id like to hear peoples thoughts.

>>6657933
see
>>6657660

>>6658001

Understandable and fair point man

I'm not entirely informed, but why does tether even count as a crypto?

afaik, it doesnt use the blockchain, can't be mined, doesnt use decentralized node validation, is it because it uses wallets? I'm not even sure if it does, but seriously, why?

>>6650104
honestly i expect this tether scam to be exposed literally any day now.
and with it, a mad outcry for crypto regulation.

>>6652991
>taking
Doesn't sound like borrowing my goy

>>6652280
when the fed is audited, prepare for the usd to zero.

>>6658182
Hey man, I beleive it does use the blockchain and was originally issued on the same one bitcoin was.

http://omnichest.info/lookupsp.aspx?sp=31

Is the page and explorer I was referring to earlier, but it allows you to see when tethers are just willed into existence. However unlike bitcoin its supply is far from fixed.

>>6658316

yes it uses a layer on top of the bitcoin blockchain, similar to a smart contract

>>6658398
>>6658316
blockchain technology is pretty fucking worthless if you can issue the supply on demand and dont validate transactions on a decentralized node network tbqh
we should just look at tether as a blockchain enhanced fiat, not a crypto. I mean seriously...

>>6650384
>US killed bitconnect

KEK

>>6652280
The Feds don't promise that USD is backed by anything but 'the full faith and credit of the United States' while Tether promises that each tether is backed by 1 USD. You better hope that they really have this much money, or else they get audited and the entire cryptomarket goes to zero. All because they don't want to let grandpa coin die.

Isnt jibrel coming out with the j cash thing ? I hope they save us

>>6658182
It does use something like blockchain - the last time it was hacked owners just forked it making the stolen tokens null.

>>6653574
reddit spacing is a meme to spot newfags who think it exists you stupid fuck
you can go to the oldest 4chan archived threads and see it you newfaggot cunt

You are all fucking retarded, how is tether of any threat to crypto... If they exit scam they lose their business protocol... if they print more tether they keep exactly what they promise and gain off you pajeets that use it....

Its a win win for them to stay in... morons

there's rumblings that tether actually just backed by money laundering

>>6658775
>You are all fucking retarded, how is Bitconnect of any threat to crypto... If they exit scam they lose their business protocol... if they stay in business they keep exactly what they promise and gain off you pajeets that use it....

>Its a win win for them to stay in... morons

when tether goes down no one will be able to buy back and crypto will crash so fucking hard.

Oi when is this shit going up?
Bought at 1USD a month back and seeing literally no movement at all.
Is it a scam? You guys all told me to strap in for the moon mission.
If it at least went up a few cents I would be getting my money back after transaction fees.

>>6658775
>great news our company is now worth 100 million dollars
>thats as much as there are tethers in existence!
>yes
>but how did we pay our team? run our servers? rent?
>GOOD NEWS EVERYONE
>OUR COMPANY IS NOW WORTH 1 BILLION DOLLARS
>still exactly as much as there are tethers in circulation
>how did we pay the team, run the serv..
>GOOD NEWS EVERYONE
>FIVE BILLION DOLLARS
>who is paying our company? HOW DO WE MAKE MONEY?
>GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD NEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWS EVERYONE

>>6658775
They aren't going to exit scam you retarded fuck.

Go look up what a bank run is before you regurgitate more retardation and maybe for once in your life you'll have justified the intake of air you consume.

>>6659223
>Comparing some pajeet ponzi to a government/society backed bank

>>6659281

I think you missed my point.
Or you are just competing to see if you can top the retardation the other poster has exhibited.

>>6650104
>>6650173
What the fuck are you people seriously this dumb? this is the whole point of this crypto. It's not like other crypstos where value is decided by the market, value is supposed to be exactly $1. If you wanna buy tether, they'll print more tether and add your cash to their reserves. It's just like a bank where they hold hold for the monopoly money. They hold $$ for tether, THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT,

how can people on this board be soo retarded?

>>6659223
You are in this thread replying to this comment....

>retarded fuck

nuff sed

>>6659467
This....

>>6659467
The whole point is its not actually backed up you cunt

>>6659587
Have you even read what Tether is?

>>6659467
>>6659475
>>6659524

Since you guys are too dumb to consider the existence of anything beyond the quality of the tendies you live off of I'll spell it out for you, you space wasting faggots.

Ok now take a deep breath and prepare to expend the amount of mental energy it will take to focus and read the following excerpt.

From the bank run wiki:

A bank run (also known as a run on the bank) occurs when a large number of people withdraw their money from a bank, because they believe the bank may cease to function in the near future. In other words, it is when, in a fractional-reserve banking system (where banks normally only keep a small proportion of their assets as cash), a large number of customers withdraw cash from deposit accounts with a financial institution at the same time because they believe that the financial institution is, or might become, insolvent; and keep the cash or transfer it into other assets, such as government bonds, precious metals or gemstones. When they transfer funds to another institution it may be characterised as a capital flight. As a bank run progresses, it generates its own momentum: as more people withdraw cash, the likelihood of default increases, triggering further withdrawals. This can destabilize the bank to the point where it runs out of cash and thus faces sudden bankruptcy.[1] To combat a bank run, a bank may limit how much cash each customer may withdraw, suspend withdrawals altogether, or promptly acquire more cash from other banks or from the central bank, besides other measures.

>>6658919
>Comparing bitconnect to tether

KEK

>>6651718
>USDT will never ever ever go above $1.02, under any circumstance.

But It HAS though.

>>6659786
You are more retarded than I first thought.... Congrats

>>6659467
>>6659738
Don't be ignorant, the warning signs are all there and you're reading unverified claims straight from their website. If you hold USDT you're holding the risk of MtGox tier JUSTing.

>>6659786
not even related to what I said, you win the most retarded pajeet of the year price.

>>6659864
and that comment is speculation from a neckbeard of plebbit. No proof to it whatsoever.

This thread is golden...

I havent laughed so hard on biz before...

>>6659911

Except there's no evidence tether is backed by the dollar.

>>6659524
They don’t hold the money retard. That’s the whole fucking point.

>>6659993
For being so concerned about proof it seems awfully ironic that you believe USDT are actually backed by fiat.

>>6658590
>whole crypto market goes to zero
it will be like 2008 and suddenly i won't regret getting in too late

>>6650104
who cares, do you actually keep your money in tether? most people use it to swing trade. I personally don't give a fuck, use it for a few minutes while swinging, thats it. not gonna get caught :P