/biz/ - Business & Finance

Money? Maybe middle class wages. Programming is becomming the new blue collar job. Thank all the pajeets you meet.

Source, t.me 20 years in the industry

just say u do cybersecurity

sounds cool

>>6566980

>software engineering
>meme career

Uhhhh been listening to /sci/ lately? Software engineering isn't really a meme. You'll be sure to find an at least decently paying job. It might be boring though.

>>6566980
enjoy being outsourced when you hit 30

You aren't majoring in engineering. maths is the only true way

>>6566980

$350,000/year SWE in California here. You'll make it, son.

>>6567066
Shit, what major is worth it then?

>>6566980
>>6567066
don't listen to this fag. he's just bitter because he's old and no one wants to employ him.

its a good decision compared to other dumb shit you could major in. get a internship as soon as you can with a reputable company and you'll be set.

>>6567066
College dropout here.
Started as a C# code monkey at 55k six months ago, have now transitioned to Linux sysadmin at 90k.
You don't need to go to school for any of this, bud. If you've been a computer enthusiast for any decent portion of your life, you're already so far ahead of most people.

>>6567126
non

>>6566980
Software engineering isnt real engineering you massive faggot

>>6567066
he's right you know. Automation is really going to pull the floor from under you in terms of wages, if you're not at the top of the stack of engineers at your company you'll be hovering just above the lib. arts people

>>6567120
>rent: 8999 cuckbucks/month

>>6567187
Why? Is it some faggot bullshit like "it's too easy" or something? It is not easy by far even if it's easier than other engineering majors. And who cares about how hard it is anyways, what matters is how much it pays.

If you aren't a complete retard you will do the degree to actually learn stuff and then use that to make your own company.

>>6567276
You should be labelled a software technician KEK

>>6567222
2k so 24k/yer for meh. Pajeet not allowed

>>6566980
everyone in here hating on SWE is just mad they don't have a six figure (that doesn't begin with 1...) salary, lenient as fuck work hours, chef prepared lunches, etc. What fucking job is better than this? Work hard for a few years, catch a good exit, you're a millionaire

>>6567276

Software engineering is an easy degree along with all the other engineering degrees, nuclear eng. exempted.

If you live near a major global city (Hong Kong, Tokyo, Dubai, etc) then it's probably worth it. Otherwise I'd just go with doctor/lawyer/generic traditional success degrees.

>>6567126
CS/CE is fine. My brother got an internship and MSFT and gets like ~$9k/month.

>>6567327
i don't believe you.
>>6567381
had it for 2 years and left it with no regrets. Nothing wrong with it, but people that think 100-200k salary is the thing to aspire to are basically negros.

>>6567398
Bachelor's degrees are a cakewalk across the board

>>6567140
Not bitter at all man..... I'm highly employable, and employed, love what I do. Truth hurt Pajeet?

>>6567066
Programming or IT? I know any half decent company chooses an english speaker vs ESL. They can't handle project management for shit.

Ai will soon replace the need for simple monkey work programming

>>6567398
>easy
>insane workload which leaves you zero free time to even breathe
Maybe if you're autistic and have zero social life. My social life is basically having painful small talk with my classmates which are all awkward as fuck and nothing more because I spend all day studying.

>>6567586
I do accounting work for my companies IT department and ~70% of our workers are foreign born. IT manager is from India and he has a short temper

What are some better options than computer science?

>>6567586
>Programming or IT? I know any half decent company chooses an english speaker vs ESL. They can't handle project management for shit.
I am going IT, personally because I'd rather do it than code.

>>6567126
Shitcoinology

>>6567222
net income: 240k/year
what point are you trying to make

If you are not a shit programmer, you will make it. My GOOG RSUs are worth more than 99% of peoples crypto portfolios on /biz/

>>6567728
This. Everyone wants good programmers, not some pajeets who will produce the kind of horrible code you will spend 2 decades fixing and eventually dumping.

>>6567726
that's great but most people at your company net around 100k, what a joke.
I bet you didn't start at 350 either.

>>6567381
Senior actuary earning the equivalent of $276,000 USD here. I could have went the CS/SWE route but I decided that strictly working with numbers was much more enjoyable. More than the salary, prestige, and luxuries, I genuinely enjoy quantifying all day and using my firm's software to make accurate forecasts which I wouldn't have access to otherwise.

With crypto headed in the direction that it is and my firm having recently released positive reports in favor of adopting and integrating blockchain technology into our systems, I was approached to participate in early tests since this hobby of mine was known by senior partners for several years. Can't say much more due to paranoid but I'm so fucking hyped for 2018, even with all the regulations coming our way. It's going to be a little less fun with not as much volatility but everyone's memelines are definitely going to be more on point.

Do we have any engineers here reporting in?

>>6566980
I work as a software engineer.

I am paying for my master's degree out of pocket and have 42k in retirement savings / mutual funds. I drive a newer sports car and always have about 10k liquid. I'm 2 yrs out of school.

I also put 7k (initially) in the crypto and am just having fun watching the ride. You'll make damn good money. Way better than the avg normie - way more than any of my regular pals from hs.

>>6566980
Im a Software Engineering Grad with free college too, what country are you in? Scotland? Denmark?

I've got a really good grad job lined up when I graduate, can't believe I actually got onto it. Starting salary is £37k.

Just keep at it anon, don't think of grills. They really do not comprehend the real world around them, the concept of STEMs having more value in the world of work goes over their head and they want to justify their shitty meme degree having as much value as yours but they'll realise in time it doesn't.

You're gonna make it

>>6567661

>insane workload which leaves you zero free time to even breathe

There are likely people in your class doing the bare minimum of studying and scoring better than you, sorry to break it to you.

I'm at a top 10 uni for a direct PhD in theoretical physics and go out every weekend. I also did this during my BSc and published 3 papers in my senior year. Likewise all my friends in programs like pharmacy and graduate level math do the same. Not that any of this matters since you'll likely call it larp.

You likely underestimate how efficient some people are.

>>6567661
lmfao get good fucking retard
I barely did any work at uni and came top of my year twice before dropping out because it was too easy
now I make £78k/year in london after a few months professional experience and I have offers for £90k

if you have to work hard you won't make it against naturals

>>6568245
he's just mad because he's shit and thinks everyone else finds it as hard as he does

>>6567902
what kind of consumerist cucked lifestyle are you living that 100k/year ~starting~ isn't enough?

>>6568245
I agree with this somewhat. If you're giving up your social life completely just to try and get by with your degree you need to re-evaluate.

Maybe the lack of going out is making you more stressed and you can't focus?

>>6568330
hey dude. some of us aren't meant for academics even if we're capable. (adhd fag here, score in 95% percentile for standarized tests and a STEM major)

besides, who cares what the fuck white collar society thinks of you when you can make a wage cucks yearly salary in a week on meme coins. when you make it just consolidate your wealth into getting comfy passive income and then buy businesses or hire wage cucks to fulfill your dreams for you.

>>6566980
>People especially women look at me funny when I tell them I'm majoring in engineering.
Really? I understand some roasties finding that being a computer nerd is unattractive but it seems weird for them to actively shame you for it. Fuck roasties.

I’m planning on majoring in Electrical engineering, am I in for a dead end major or no?

>>6568466
i'm talking about california. I looked into the rent situation there when I was looking at an offer from a shit company (that everyone loves even though they murdered a couple people hint hint)
Anyway you'd be dirt poor if you took one of those offers, I spend around 3200/month average where I live currently but I calculated it on an itemized basis and it would be 6700 there. FYI it's almost exactly the monthly net income from the cash compensation they were offering. I guess I'd get stock options and better benefits but it would still ammount to less.

>>6568510
they'd rather be around someone with no education than a cs grad. it's the truth you have to accept at some point

>>6566980
if you are a good coder and are creative you can become an entrepreneur with that skillset for a chance to escape the waging

>>6568504
>some of us aren't meant for academics even if we're capable
yep me neither which is why I dropped out

I'm actively investing the bulk of my salary into crypto so I can stop working sooner rather than later
it's nice to have high paying job offers flooding in since it means I can risk more of my money knowing I won't suddenly be left with nothing

power to you bro if you've already made it

>>6568617
Switch to CIS

>>6568823
This. My friend made the same switch to CS from EE and really enjoys what he's doing

>>6566980
>People especially women look at me funny when I tell them I'm majoring in engineering.
They wouldn't if you were goodlooking.

>>6568823
Hows CIS job outlook? Any field in specific of CIS thats hot right now? Preferably not fucking IT. Id rather that be worst case scenario.

>>6568896
>>6568823
I’ll look into it thanks anons

>>6566980
Just do a fuck ton of problems from leetcode and you could get an internship at FANG companies

>>6568510
You can basically feel the moment her pussy dries up the moment you mention engineering. Shit fucking sucks. I just lie now and tell them I major in accounting or business whatever and the conversation is magically less awkward. Makes no fucking sense when engineering is a superior major but it sucks regardless. I just wish it wasn't the go-to autist major, I can't even make a study group because my classmates refuse to socialize.

>>6569092
I've never experienced this. What is a degree that roasties find attractive, then?

>>6567586
I did Programming, but you should probably pick whats best for you or you'll fucking kill yourself

>>6569092
>>6568926
>>6568510
>>6569170
I'm enjoying the /r9k/ potential here

>>6569170
>attractive
Trust fund
Sports scholarship

>>6569092
There's literally no way any sane girl thinks ACCOUNTING is more interesting than software engineering.

>>6569170
Ideally it's the one they're studying or the one Chad is studying.

>>6569214
I've personally never experienced that women care that much about your degree, as long as it isn't obvious bullshit.

>>6569239
They don't think it's interesting, but they see betabux, nice clothing, and it's considered a stable field. Also a lot of them are too stupid for accounting but they know what it is so it's relatable. Whereas CS is just so far off it scares them away.

>>6566980
Why are you asking this on an faggot pirate site like 4gay?
People on here are mostly losers who would never be able to graduate in any degree.
Remember this is also the site where people think their basic Hobby knowledge is superior to an Bachelor degree.

Don't listen to idiots and go study hard.

>>6568245
>I'm at a top 10 uni
What a meme

>>6569239
It fucking is though. A friend is majoring in accounting and he actually has a decent amount of women classmates. I have no idea why they're so scared of computers.

>>6566980
Doesnt matter. They probably look at youre funny because youre ugly and autistic.

>>6568656
I'm talking California too. You can get by on 100k very happily; that's what my starting salary was.

>t. lives in San Fransisco

>>6569554
I'd have to cut costs a lot to save anything. offer was for 122k, was earning 100k at the time.
I could have at that point just cut costs where I currently am and saved the same amount or more.

>>6566980
Anon you fucked up, Computer Science is the major everyone does to become a Software Engineer, not Software Engineering major. You should have researched this. Switch majors NOW to Computer Science

This is not a meme I'm being serious just trust me or fuck off.

>>6567685
...None?

>>6566980
>>6569170
>>6569092
>>6568926

I highly suspect you guys are just handling the conversation as autists (who would've thought). Part of being in STEM is telling people your degree and 100% of the time receiving the age-old "oh wow, I'm acknowledging that you are in something impressive, but I literally don't know anything about what you do and fuck you for sounding smarter than me" response. You should know what I'm talking about.

The trick is not to let it just linger there while you stare at them for approval. Follow up with some normie-friendly quip. This shit is exactly the same as a girl asking "so do you work out?" to /fit/ and them replying with "Yeah I'm 3 months into SS, put on 5 pounds thanks to GOMAD." No you stupid mother fucker, you say something like "Just Wii Fit and the occasional Zumba class." It's not hard guys.

>>6566980
>software engineering
have fun being a peasant code monkey for (((them)))
Go hard and get into cyb for that dank ass contracting dough

>>6569214
>>6569342
If you're a skinny or fat nerdy looking guy and say you majored engineering or CS it basically reinforces preconceived notions the girl already had about you. A goodlooking guy can say any degree and she won't think anything negative.

>>6569780
this is larp. no girl would be able to tell you lift if you're on starting strength.

>>6569780
lying about working out doesn't translate to lying about your profession
And yeah you're right the whole thing is mostly based around people wanting to feel smarter than you.

>>6569554
Dude $100k in San fran is jack shit.
Go out to the east coast or midwest where your $80k will get you twice as much.

I got offered $90k to work in chicago and turned it down for a /comfy/ $75k at 23 in Michigan

>>6566980
you picked the best field in the universe anon. SE, CS, cybersecurity are about to escalate to Godlike levels in the new Anarcho-Capitalist Crypto dynasties that are unfolding.

>>6569859
I'm 5 months into stronglifts and my fat half-beaner fuckbuddy raves about my back gains every time.

>>6569906
if that's detroit, pretty based anon. enjoy your 50k mansion.
I tried to do that with a defense contractor that had a presence there but I didn't get an offer.

>>6569789
All wagies make money for (((them)))

The alternative is being an open source NEET

>>6567066
This dude is a faggot and has no idea what he's talking about

Software engineering is a very stable base for you and will help you immensely if you want to invest in crypto

>>6569982
shit u right tho
>pic relatedango

>>6569964
Not a mansion but I'm living pretty nice and being so close to the airport is also really nice for flying for some contracts.
Straight up though, go to your local BSides/Con/Defcon or 2600 Group and network.
Everyone's autistic there so there's not the stress of talking to HR normies about tech. Once you talk to another engineer, they can get you an interview quicker than a badass resume.

>>6569906

I'm always so confused by these high as fuck salaries. I'm in Germany and nobody I know would ever get $100k in their job. Ever. The average across all fields is around $45k. With a CS master's degree the starting salary is around $51k. Maybe $60k if you're starting at a big company.

In what fucking world is $100k not considered high as fuck? That's more than double of what most people earn here, and they live very good lives. But somehow double that is not enough. What.

>>6569874

Yeah maybe my analogy was bad. The point I was making was to quickly dismiss logical details. "I'm taking software engineering" is white noise to unintelligent girls.

>>6569955
kek. enjoy looking like the blahino in the future.

>>6570196
The American markets are saturated with shitty pajeets tbqf.
It takes 2 American engineers to fix one fucking dune coons shit.
Once pajeets code gets pushed to prod, my work as a red teamer comes into play and it's ez money.
Straight up, H1B is cancer. I fucking HATE filthy "I-got-into-cs-for-teh-muney" pajeets.

More often than not, your basic software engineering job is going to be around what you said because there's so many "coders" in the market rn.

That's why it's crucial to find something that's hard and become good at it. Whether it's fortran/COBOL (fucking rolling in money), hardware or embedded, cyb, blue team, red team, etc.
The lower the level, the higher the salary.

I have a nice pajeet pentest story if anyone cares.

Im stuck between military and contracting after or majoring in CS? By contracting Im talking about private military companies. Money is good either way but I dont want to do boring shit in an office all day

anybody else here an accounting or finance major?

Im double majoring in both, I never imagined college would be so easy, but as long as this can land me a M-F office job making 45k or more, it'll have been worth it.

>>6570371
>red team
>blue team
I see you guys came up with more buzzterms since I quit

>>6570458
lol. everything non-stem is easy

>>6570196
US isn't fully socialist though, so some wage earners slip through the cracks and can save large amounts per year with a nice lifestyle.
But then again I've heard of laborers in europe making 100k so who knows

>>6570463
Yeah it's getting poopy. Defcon 25 was for sure my last one.
>implants
>IOC
>APT
>CoC
The list goes sadly on.

Clients have probably gotten more retarded since you left, so no shocker there.

>>6570196
it costs like 80k a yr if you want to live in a closet in san francisco

>>6570574
I haven't the faintest idea what any of those mean and I quit 1 year ago.
Thank god for crypto.

>>6570607

Then you probably shouldn't live in San Francisco in the first place.

>>6570692
Can confirm, I live in the Bay Area and it's an absolute shithole. I make a shitload but I am moving out of here the first chance I get. Last weekend I was reading at a coffee shop and had to leave because two fucking brogrammers started getting loud and obnoxious arguing about 'which javascript framework is the best'.

>>6567091
good software engineers will never be outsourced.

>>6570865
This is the fucking truth. I see the end result of this time and time again
>Client: We paid pajeet to do it for $800 and it's a broken piece of shit
>S.E.: Yeah and now I charge $8k to redo the project NOT IN PHP and making it functional
>Client hires American/European from then on

Remember kids, PHP = Pajeets Handle Poo

>>6566980
if you want high earnings and respect you must choose women studies. maybe it's not too late to switch

>>6570196
>nobody I know would ever get $100k in their job. Ever
That honestly makes me really sad to hear desu.

>>6571012
literally nothing wrong with php, if you use javascript for your shitty webapp that doesn't require compute at all you should be hanged
>inb4 t.pajeet
i'm white cunt

>>6570458
Accounting major who ended up getting a masters in mathematics and now works as a court transcriptionist earning $93k a year while working 4-hr shifts 3 days a week. Who wouldve thought typing 140+ words a minute was actually a worthwhile skill.

>>6571328
>there's literally nothing wrong with php
https://www.cvedetails.com/vendor/74/PHP.html

Go, Ruby, Python, Node to name a few alternatives
I get honestly excited on a pentest when I see .php because for the most part they're easy wins.

It's not *terrible* but it *is* easy to fuck up and it's super slow.

>>6570371
>fortran/COBOL (fucking rolling in money)
This is a meme retard, it's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about and are just regurgitating what you've read. These languages aren't hard to learn and if they had legitimate "rolling in money" career paths people would just go learn them. Software Engineers routinely learn new languages.

>>6567126
Are you fucking seriously doubting your choice of degree? Software engineering will get you a very nice job or give you the ability to freelance for plenty money. If I wanted to choose a degree based solely on the money I would make, it would be software engineering.
I got am applied maths degree and it's not nearly as good a gateway to a high paid job.

Just finish your degree and make sure you actually know how to do any jobs you would apply for.

>>6571537
using a general purpose language like python to replace php means finding dozens of packages that do what you want or writing a bunch of redundant code yourself
>node
i think i'm going to be sick

>>6566980
are you idiot?

there are a lot of jobs for software engineers atm...

>>6566980

no. if you aren't making 100k by age 25 as a SWE you are below average in the US (even excluding commiefornia).

>>6567140
He's not in the industry for 20 years. Obvious larp by a disgruntled anon.

>>6567902

Not even Google pays 350k starting. They do like 115k + stocks and bonuses so you're grossing upper 100's your first year but have to live in SF where the rent is 5k a month for a 1 BR and you make 75k post tax AND those stocks don't vest for like 3 years.

All the Google and Facebook guys I know have to live with smelly pajeet roommates even though they're clearing nearly 200k gross a year. kek

>>6566980
OP I wish I majored in Software Engineering or really any form of computer science. I wish it so much I might go back to school just for that.

I majored in political science despite getting over a 30 on my ACT. Do not waste your potential as I did

>>6572113
is that a high score?
I think I got 28 total with a 23 in math, it's literally just a filter for people that can't fully learn english if their lives depended on it. In fact I think math weighs as less than 1/4th of it.

Lol get out now, that is unless you think the idea of spending the next fifty years in a cubicle surrounded by autistic and Dr who fans sounds like a good time to you

>>6572113
Same except I self taught programming and now I make 85k as a remote web developer. Shit is comfier than a bull run.

>>6572113
>I majored in political science

browsing /pol/ in your early 20's while living in your mom's basement isn't majoring in political science

>>6572113
There's nothing wrong with pol sci mate, unless you don't know how to market yourself. You could find a job that's pays equally as well and is probably way more enjoyable and doesn't involve interacting with literal autists and cucks

>>6572583
> muh firm handshake
There is no job that is opened up by having a liberal arts degree that is not also opened up by having an engineering degree. The reverse is not true.

>>6572616
That's completely retarded my dude

>>6572686
Can't be too retarded or you would have offered even one example.

>>6572686
it's doesn't hold up in 100% of cases but guess what, nobody wants those jobs, they are shit.

>>6566980

>free college

Dont worry I am sure you are receiving a quality education that will serve you well in the future.

>>6571732
Sure dude, enjoy semester 2 of freshman year
Meanwhile several of my classmates are making over 100k a year working solely in COBOL their first job out of college.
>Software Engineers routinely learn new languages
Yeah but here's the thing you haven't experienced yet, when you work for a company on a project.... you're gonna keep writing it in that language, and you're gonna get rebooked on another project in that language ad nauseum.
Go shitpost on /g/ about your faggot SaaS startup

https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=COBOL&l=Chicago
https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=mainframe+developer&l=Chicago

>>6571743
Yeah, I probably should have left that one out

>>6573138
Kill yourself retard, I make like $170k a year with bonuses and stock vesting. None of these jobs you're listing pay shit cuckface, and who wants to live in Chicago - I rejected jobs from Chicago.

>>6573407
Oh I'm sure you do make $170k as a software engineer
>>>/larp/

>>6573508
>$110k base salary
>$25k yearly stock vesting
>$15k yearly bonus
>$20k promotion bonus

kys poorfaggot

>>6573583
Okay then, I'll bite, what do you "develop"
>inb4 one more kys

>>6566980
You fucked up. Computer science is the way.

>>6573635
c++ template metaprogramming server backends you KYS bagholder

>>6567156
Are you in the US? Linux sysadmin looks very interesting. Do you know if there is a lot of job openings? I'm in Canada, french-side

>>6573635
Also stop the racist anti-Indian memeing, I'm white but there are a lot of Indians at my work with whom I work very closely and some of them are extremely good and make way more than me.

>>6567398
t. retard

>>6573698
And let me guess...........
wait for it.........
You didn't read the job offerings that had several >$100k salaries plus equivalent bonuses?
You act like I'm fucking saying you'll make millions. I'm saying its good pay immediately and stable.
Kys, illiterate <Boost> codemonkey

>>6573790
Eh, nah, working with several companies who outsource development shows me that Indians in India are fucking retarded.

>>6573846
Working with several people of several races shows me that there are retards of every race

>>6573882
Agreed. For the most part.
Look, at the very least we should be able to agree that a career working with archaic software is niche and prosperous.
Shit, I know EE's who work with old German PLCs and SCADA systems who are retarded wealthy but only see home 6 months out of the year.
Software Engineering is prosperous. It's just that there's a LOT more people who can write bad Java and do the entry level shit.
It sounds like you got a good gig going, and honestly that's /comfy/
It's also not everyone.

>>6573986
H A S K E L L
A
S
K
E
L
L

>>6574197
Now THAT is some shit I would pick up if I went back to dev right there

>>6574197
It's cool but I think only some prop trading firms use it in a serious way. It's retarded though and C++ is like 50x faster

>>6566980
140k/year rn as a software engineer. pretty nice OP.

>>6574381
I know a few guys that do really cool work for physics research labs that use Haskell, R, and Matlab. Mostly the latter two though.
I've heard it's used at Amazon, Ball, and a few other places for *some* shit.
It's just neat imho

>>6567126
There's still a fuckton of money in the industry. Even if the Indians are better than you at the brute force programming most good social guys get into management by 30 and from there you get job offers like crazy.


source: did eyeopening internship for comp sci and decided to drop out > finish with a shit liberal arts major

>>6566980

Listen anon,
There' a billion different ways you can learn CS and varying degrees of understanding and quality of what you produce. It's a very open-ended proficiency, with very open-ended opportunities.

There are countless pajeets and general assholes who claim the title of "computer scientist" and really all they are is some piece of shit wagecuck script kiddy who debugs C# / .net faggotry for some corporation.

There are also autist purists who are logical and mathematical masters of things as intricate as plain ol' C, but perhaps spend so much of their free thinking obsessing over how the tech didn't go the way it should have, or they simply are too autist to understand the marketing side of things or how to identify what the world might actually need, or at least want.

I like to think there's a happy middle ground here. Regardless, it does stand that the sky is the limit on this shit. If you are good enough to program well and identify market opportunities you can build things to financially sustain yourself - be it apps, contracts, whatever, and still save yourself time for passion projects that may have sparked your interest to pursue this major in the first place.

My recommendation is to learn C++ and Java, and stay the fuck away from any Microsoft shit, it's all over-churned pajeet faggotry. Try to find classical teachers that don't waste 3 fucking classes on setting up a stupid bloated IDE, and save enough energy on the side to research and learn specifically what it is you'd like to get out of CS, and try to find like-minded individuals along the way, in your classes, in forums, or even on stack overflow.

Good luck and god speed my dude.

>>6573138
Can confirm COBOL is overpayed. But I wouldn't advise learning it because it is being phased out.
The insurance place I worked at had the most autistic old fucks working COBAL. They wouldn't train other employees and the company has to overpay them to keep up their bloated mainframe in this shit archaic language.


The library is about 40 statements and programs make as much sense as assembly.
Once the finance industry gives in or these COBAL wielding autists all retire COBAL will be useless.

>>6571068
kek

>>6566980
if you graduated 25 years ago you'd do great!

>>6567188
Automation only flushes all the poo out of the industry. Human jobs will remain the same.

>>6576363
automation will get rid of all drivers, pilots, and captains eventually. money that doesn't get spent close to the bottom, pulls everyone above them downwards relatively speaking.

>>6567474
In so cal near a beach. Fires and mudslides keep rent from exploding - 3 bed townhouse for 1950/mo

guys. You can get a room in San Fransisco for like 2k/month. You'll be living in a studio, sure, but you'll also be living in San Fransisco. The weather is perfect year-round, you can take public transit anywhere, and you have open access to all kinds of running/hiking in the surrounding areas.

It's really not that expensive to live here if you're making decent money. The quality of life improvement is totally worth the cost of living imo.

materialist fags

>>6566980
Are you fucking stupid, I earn 150k a year as software engineer. 3 to 4 times more than most other People (Germany)

>>6576427
Farmers, too. Those might be the first to be fully replaced.l considering how much of their livelihood relies on subsidies.
"Organic" food becomes "human grown" and all farming costs drop to pennies to the dollar for operation costs.

>>6576531
You are rich by Kraut standards, considering that other post that said the average pay in the field is like a paltry 40k an shit. Congratulations.

>>6576547
farming gets to exploit illegals though.

OP is a pathetic philistine. The true follower of the CS way cares not for petty things like "good money" - but he is humble if money comes his way. This narrow path is one paved with knowledge of sacred truths of the theoretical canon like Church-Turing thesis, Lambda calculus, and arcade automata - Honor LISP, for it is a language of initiates like C.

>>6576912
>arcade
meant arcane, but an interesting thought - I believe some arcade classics implemented state machines.

this is literally one of the best (maybe the best?) majors are people suggesting otherwise?

>>6576754
I'm a Freelancer / Selfemployed and work for other companies. When you are an employee salaries won't be that high in Germany.
But all companies are looking for experienced programmers and can't find enough employees, so it's not that hard to get into companies as a freelancer.
And my rate of 75 Euro per hour is still pretty bad, most people get 85 to 95 per hour.

The reason why i do it for 75 is because i don't want to search for new projects all the time. At the moment I'm working for two companies which will probably last for several years because there's so much work to do.

>>6576912
In view of this, it is ironic that introductory programming is most often taught in a highly imperative style. This may be a memorial unto the children of whoredoms

>>6575308
A professor told the class once that if we would like to retire with 40 and get rich fast, we should learn COBOL and other stuff in order to maintain mainframe systems and transfer/rewrite programs to a current programming language.

I write software for financial institutions that handles hundreds of thousands transactions/requests per second. Java is my weapon of choice. Don't let anyone badmouth Java, it's awesome.

>120k€/year

>>6577353
Goes to show how degenerate our modern financial institutions are. It's great that you make tons of money, especially for being paid in Euros, but don't kid yourself into thinking Java is a good language. Your system could be re-written in C++ and be orders of magnitude faster, more generic, more scalable, and safer if done right.

>>6577129
The degeneracy of fallen times, marked by the advent of omens of ill portent like fucking python replacing Scheme at MIT.

>>6577393
They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all brought us on our way, with wives and children, till we were out of the holes of the rocks, and into the hand of Moses, from the day the king departed until the day that it is possible to decompose a problem into pieces that are either constants or variables

>>6577390
>orders of magnitude faster
No. Java being slow is a meme from 2006. Shows what you know. Every part of HFT software that isn't handled by hardware is done in Java nowadays.
>safer if done right
No. Software needs to be maintainable, c++ isn't.

>>6577490
C++ is very easily maintainable you just have to write it correctly. It's extremely generic if you use template metaprogramming properly. Generic at compiletime, not runtime like retarded inheritance patterns with virtual dispatch overhead.

Java being slow is not even remotely a meme from 2006. The only way to make it fast is by forcing it to pretend like it's C++ by turning off the GC and using custom allocator mempools everywhere, and other tricks like this - which are canonical C++ generic methods.

I've worked at HFT firms too my dude and no serious ones use Java for anything requiring low latency, and if they do they shouldn't be. What's the point of your microwave network links if your JVM needs to dynamically recompile some bytecode, or GC needs to interrupt your process, or some other such bullshit like that, midway through?

Even if it works okay don't fool yourself into thinking it's a good tool for the job.

>>6567156
This.

>>6577595
every time I tried to use templates in a non trivial way at my old job I just wasted my time, because I didn't know about some gotcha limitation that was built into the language standard.
fuck templates.

>>6575187
>My recommendation is to learn C++ and Java, and stay the fuck away from any Microsoft shit
Microsoft was basically a C++ workshop and is now a C# workshop which has the exact same features and almost the exact same syntax Java does mate.

>>6577951
>I don't understand how to do it so fuck the language

You just have to learn parameter packs, template specialization on typedefs/classes/methods, and you're pretty much good to go

I'm going into Economics and Finance this year after spending a year doing Public relations.

Will i make it?

>>6578035
fuck you and your templates in the ass

>>6577390
>>6577595
"Done right" and "write it correctly" literally means much more time spent programming and debugging (memory leaks lmao) which means more money spent in the software overall for the same features.
Just look at the companies with the best programmers. What companies do you think those are? Google? Microsoft? Lockheed Martin? None of them use C++ as their primary language anymore, even though they all started developing in it. Why do you think that is?

>>6578091
That's funny because I actually work at one of the companies in that list. And I use C++ and template metaprogramming for my job every single day.

C++ is the safest language when it comes to finite-lifetime resource leaks such as memory leaks - just use RAII and custom allocators properly and you literally don't even have to think about memory management at all anymore.

Look anon I don't want to be some asshole autist but there is the C++ you learn in school and then there is real professional C++. Real C++ is a thin wrapper over C that makes use of templates as the main toolchest item and looks ugly as hell to newcomers.

>>6566980
Was on 93k at my last job and was there for 5 years and left to freelance. Freelancing was the best decision I've ever made and even if you don't make bank immediately, there will always be outlets for you to feel financially secure. What surprised me is the amount of absolutely clueless cunts who I had to fix shit for.

>>6578091
>>6578210
Also we have some codebase in other languages ans we are migrating them to C++ because it's the only language, we just have issues with shitty developers not understanding the codebase so there's pressure to dumb it down for them

>>6578210
i don't know what kind of esoteric projects you're working on, everything I got was 'abuse boost and standard libraries in every way possible' and everyone I know that has to write c++ has to do the same. No super fancy shit like you're saying.
maybe you're full of shit

>>6578210
You only work in performance critical components. Anything else is Java/JS if you're in Google or C# if you're in Microsoft (LM uses Ada but that's another story). You know this is true, who are you trying to fool?

>>6567066
This guy's right. Software Engineering is in bubble and fileld with retards. You'll still get average wages, but the work is most often life crushing pointless and not worth it

>>6578287
Performance critical components are the only components that matter. If everyone learned how to program correctly we wouldn't have this issue of various layers of ugly wrappers on top of each other on top of even more wrappers on top of virtual-virtual-virtual runtime machines and the like.

Everything is performance critical it's just that people let themselves get lazy.

>>6578327
s/fileld/filled/

>>6578333
It has nothing to do with laziness. If you have to build a web API with 100 features and choose to do it in C++ over a higher level language, you're literally pouring money down the drain. You can't just give your programmers Red Bull and coffee and expect them to crank out C++ code at the same speed as they can with a higher level language and framework specially suited to that task.

>>6566980

OP, the stable money will be in the patching, repair, calibration of robotics and operating systems. Dont worry about being a creator of new tech, you may find opportunities to do such work but the main stable pay is up keeping other people's pieces of shit designs. Calibration programmers are paid something like 90 per hour just to test and dial in precision automation tech.

>>6578415
Yes you can, what can any of those languages do that C++ can't? Nothing as long as the team or company had a good suite of tools. Not that they do but they should

>>6578433
i've seen webapps done in c++. That shit was horrendous

>>6578433
Decent, proved, well documented web frameworks and libraries for one. I bet my right arm none of the websites in your company are written in Wt or CppCMS.

>>6566980
keep in mind that you will have to save as much as you can while young
you will not be able to adapt to all the tech changes and remain competitive for all of your career.
my dad was a programmer for most of his career but is now working in manufacturing. so yeah, some will make it to the top management, most will not. and they have to be prepared to work something else.

>>6578637
wtf are you on about. the best programmers in the world are all old. your dad is a dropout mate he could learn whatever language or framework in a week if he wanted, he just doesn't want to.

>>6578519
Actually they're beautiful, for instance you can guarantee the correct formatting of XML documents through C++'s RAII capabilities (destructor closes tags) and things like this.

>>6578675
This. There is no excuse to not keep leaning. If your skills are based around languages and frameworks you're a brainlet anyway - your skills should be based around computer hardware and networking knowledge with the language you use being merely a tool to get the job done.

>>6566980
>The one actually good job that will last a long time while automation and weak AI makes almost everything else irrelevant

Are you retarded OP? Great career.

>>6567728
>get internal reference
>don't even get a phone screen

>>6577317
They're just going to abandon it completely because the fucks who know COBAL do not have incentives to rewrite it. Transferring data isn't hard at all compared to rewriting the programs. You just have to know SQL and some basic stuff about the mainframe. That's actually why I hated the COBAL guys so much because I would get assigned to get some sort of data set for presentations and I'd have to ask these fucks where to get it.
Part of the problem is that these financial institutions are very bad at managing risk and promoting efficiency in their IT and programming departments compared to tech based companies. They are really far behind in their ability to evaluate their employees, software, and sometimes even hardware. I think they figure they are OK with things being bloated and old as because their profits are more dependent on the work of actuaries, lawyers, accountants, etc.


>tldr; don't learn COBAL

>>6578675
>>6578722
you are just youngsters that think your mind and body will remain the same. you will see when you age, I've talked with dad a lot about this. you can't keep switching technologies and learning new stuff. tech is changing really fast now. I am still a student, but I am not sure how much of the stuff I am working on will be useful in 5 years.

>>6578685
i saw it in action, it was incredibly ugly.
I think you might have some delusions about your favorite language and maybe even your career

>>6575187
.net is fun to work with and that's all I have to say about that

>>6578768
wow weird you might wanna let linus torvalds/jeff dean/john carmack/james gosling know, it seems they missed the memo.

>>6578768
Maybe you're right, I wouldn't be surprised I guess. The brain may very well change and lose plasticity. That being said I don't think it's an issue. If he wanted to learn, he could learn. If he can't he's a brainlet.

>>6577490
>Every part of HFT software that isn't handled by hardware is done in Java nowadays.
Really? I assume you have custom JVM, memory allocation, etc?

I was shilling pfr and prl here for you on /biz since both were 0.07 and 0.01 respectively. Get profit on egas and make me (and you) rich.
Take a look@ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethgas/