/biz/ - Business & Finance

Just pay in crypto

>>6380436

>buy plane ticket
>fly out of country
>count to 186 days outside of Australia
>cash out
>pay tiny local tax of your nation of choice

This is so fucking stupid I thought this only applied to Americans GOD FUCKING DAMMIT AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

1 NOTHING WRONG WITH ME

Waiting for the fags who believe this is incorrect to come in here. Prove how what the ATO says is wrong.

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-Australia---specifically-bitcoin/

https://www.ato.gov.au/business/gst/in-detail/rules-for-specific-transactions/barter-and-trade-exchanges/

> Transacting with bitcoin is akin to a barter arrangement, with similar tax consequences.

> Barter transactions are assessable and deductible for income tax purposes to the same extent as other cash or credit transactions.

>>6380571
Link to ATO page explaining this?

wait I'm gonna move back to aus at the end of year... what happens if I bought my crypto in europe and wanna cash out?

>>6380634
https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinAUS/comments/7n78a3/tax_megathread/

Read the section "Bitcoin barter arrangements & trading crypto pairs"

i'm just gonna give them all my transaction records and pretend i'm retarded and make them figure out how much to tax me

>>6380638

What retarded thought it possessing you to move back here? Get the hell out and stay out.

2 NOTHING WRONG WITH ME

>>6380674
Can anyone say if this would work or not?

>>6380678
because aus is the greatest country in the world.... now I need to get rich before I come back ffs

>>6380740

Idiot brainlet, I hope they tax all your gains away and force you to watch the sudanese family who gets to spend all your gains in the form of welfare payments.

>>6380464

Do you think they'll take EGAS ?

>>6380710
i'm not expecting this to work, but if they reject it i'll threaten to kill myself

then maybe it will work.

>>6380880
Genius

They can suck my balls. not aussie legal tender so i dont give a flying fuck what they reckon

>>6380510
Does this work for Canucks too?

>>6380880

It probably will work, all these fucking idiot government workers take their "duty of care" very seriously.

God I hate this nanny state.

>>6380964

Works for everyone except for Burgers and Eritreans. For those two there is one extra step, gotta trash that citizenship and get a new one.

>>6380977
>>6381005

Do you have any source/info on this?

Cant I say that I'm purchasing the coin to use them in the future? How would they prove this wrong.

>I bought ICX so that if I become a Korean Citizen and create a company I can do XYZ
>I bought REQ so that I would be able to get Accounting done automatically in the future etc.

how wont this work?

Tfw I bought QSP so that I can do security audits on my future Smart Contract.

>>6380806
why can't we be friendly?
You need a sip of James Boag and chill out mate.

I didn't get into crypto until I left aus because you used to have that scummy 10% tax even buying btc. I'll just cash out to my euro accounts and use the money for black jack and hookers.

>>6380436
Literally don’t declare and don’t tell me u use an exchange like coinspot or you should honestly KYS

>>6380436
Pretty sure also it’s only once you pull the money out, it doesn’t make sence I mean what if you declare a trade then the coin tanks so you say to the ATO you made say 50k in a trade and all of a sudden you haven’t got a fuckin penny to your name, does that mean you have to pay tax on the 50k that you literally didn’t earn?

>>6381988
Yes that's exactly what it means

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinAUS/comments/7n78a3/tax_megathread/

>none of this would have happened if we just bought our ethereum at the start of the year and just fucking held it never selling it never creating taxable events and holding it for over 12 months so when we do sell it we only have to pay half tax
I SHOULD HAVE JUST HELD MY ETHEREUM REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

When did this shit come about? Last month they said you only pay when you cash out on realised gains not on every single fucking stupid trade.

I was happy to pay on realised gains when converting to fiat.

but...

Fuck paying taxes on crypto to crypto trades when the gains aren't even realised yet. They can now get totally fucked.

I'm going to invest in all the privacy coins.
With all the bullshit you know they're going up big time in 2018.

>>6380674
>i'm just gonna give them all my transaction records and pretend i'm retarded and make them figure out how much to tax me

Date: 1st July 2018

>Sir you've made a series of unbelievably sound investment decisions dating back to 2014.
>By all accounts you were briefly the richest under 30 person of the year for the last 3 years.
>We have amalgamated all your gains and losses to your last few trades, that is when you swapped all your bitcoins for something called TRX and Confido.
>This event triggered capital gains of $350m, as you held for over 12 months only 175m is considered assessable income
>Your current unrealised losses is $350m, however as they have not yet crystalised you are not able to offset the two.

>We await your cheque for $84,844,362

>>6380510
Proof?

Sounds too good to be true if all you have to do is take 6 months holiday

so i can't buy and sell willy nilly now like biz tells me?

>>6382788
if you paid fiat from banks into exchanges the gov already know. going into privacy coins now is too late, unless you bought P2P.

>>6381988
no, keep in mind capital loss as well. speak to an accountant if you need to - if you're a wage cuck like me, a capital loss could be beneficial anyway.

Are second life players forced to cash out on their in game earnings? Are there any other precidents for capital gains forcing you to have to sell your assets to pay taxes?

Everything I can think of so far has always been when you cash out. Second life players and EVE online players are never forced to cash out their capital gains until cash out.

>>6382848
jokes on them i'll just declare bankruptcy

>>6382914
Its a war on crypto. And the government is going to lose.

>>6382901
It's not true. Stupidest fucking meme and it won't die.

>>6380436

>>6382901
no you can't avoid tax by taking a holiday. if you have paid cash from an aus bank into an exchange, the ato already knows.

>>6382901
>>6383180
>>6383251

Brainlets.

You get tax residency in another nation. You still pay taxes. But better to play a tiny tax overseas than the massive tax here.

>>6381914
What's wrong with Coinspot and why should I register an account somewhere else because of it being shit?

I haven't begun trading yet but was going to choose it because of its broad amount of coins and transparent fees

OK, what if I anonymously bought BTC via local bitcoins?

I live in NZ, and we dont have CGT YET, but I should be good right?

>>6383374
How dumb are you ? Just "get tax residency in another country brah" kek if you actually believe it's possible to do this, without fuckig renouncing Australian citizenship and without taking years of your life, more power to you. Enjoy high school for now though, must be heading into grade 12 hey buddy, big year ahead :)

You will only have to pay tax on crypto to fiat. Thats what you will report and they will be happy to take it. It is not feasible to audit someones crypto history especially if they have been in the game for a while and the ato is certainly not capable of doing it. They will make examples of people who tried to evade taxes and claim they can track your cryptos.

>>6384098

You don't have to renounce citizenship unless you are a burger, but even then so what, Australia's a shithole and anyone cashing out would be retarded to not move elsewhere permanently anyways.

You just have to cut financial ties with Australia before leaving, then apply to become a tax resident for that year in whatever other country you are staying in.

>>6384098
Are you saying there are no dual citizens?

I'm an Australian/US citizen. Unfortunately I'm fucked either way with taxes.

>>6380436
Bogans BTFO!!!

>>6383009
You know you still have to pay it back right?

EGAS has a 13 mil max coin supply and the price is sub 10cents right now. Even if it turns out to be a scamcoin it will definitely get pumped to $1 before then and that will only put it at 13m market cap.
Take a look@ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethgas/

Just move to new zealand and pay 0 tax on your crypto

>>6380620
From the ATO under the barter and trade echanges:

Example: GST payable on a taxable supply between members of a trade exchange

Harvey and Tracey are registered for GST and are both members of the Better Bartering Exchange. Harvey is a bookkeeper and provides bookkeeping services to Tracey who operates a courier service. Harvey's trading account is credited with 440 Better Bartering credits (BBs) for the supply of services to Tracey.

Under the rules of the exchange, one BB equals $1 and the commercial value of the services is $440. The price of the supply is 440 BBs. Before calculating the value of the supply, the 440 BBs are converted to their Australian dollar equivalent ($440). The value of the taxable supply that Harvey makes is $440 × (10÷11), which is $400. The GST on the supply is, therefore, $40 (that is, 10% of $400).

Harvey will declare $400 as assessable income on his income tax return, and Tracey will claim $400 as a deduction on her tax return.


So it seems that yes, each trade is claimed as income on your tax return but it would also have the same value of tax deduction applied to it as from the example shown with Harvey and Tracey you are filling the roles of both people.

But then again maybe I'm interpreting it wrong because I fucking hate legal speak and I'm tired and need more bourbon.

>>6384551
THAT'S IT. 5 NUKES FOR BANGALORE.

>>6384551
Where you buying that ethgas

>>6383820
Besides the hoops you have to jump through for singing up even though their UI is EZ too use it’s not good for data, something like binance is much better, but I mean you do you man, also their fees are pretty aids

>>6384818
I was intending on using another program for charts and the like, so I agree with that point.

After looking into Binance it seems like a better option

thanks anon

>>6384818
>>6384986

no binance sign up. Then it could b 6-8 weeks like bitfinex?

Any aussies thinking of going into crypto:

>Are you an immigrant? Use your mum's / dad's money in your country and buy btc on localbitcoins

I was shilling pfr and prl here for you on /biz since both were 0.07 and 0.01 respectively. Get profit on egas and make me (and you) rich.
Take a look@ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ethgas/

>>6385130
I'm in no rush

>that penis when first $16000 USD of capgainz are tax free
>that penis when next $50000 USD of capgainz are at 10%
God DAMN it's best to be British