/biz/ - Business & Finance

you pay the tax with the crypto you gained from each trade you mong

>>6297548
what?

Ask your exchange for logs. If they can't provide just make them up and pay like good goy.

>>6297477

Lol

>>6297477
you multiply by the price of bitcoin that day you retard

>>6297622
i have it. like i said it only lists every trade in sats. to find out how much tax i would have to pay i would have to find the USD prices at the time of trading for every single transaction

>>6297725
just fucking get the price of bitcoin on that day

if you are paranoid, use the low

as long as you pay what you due and don't try to cheat them you'll be fucking fine

>acquire redistribution rights to some stock photos or make them yourself
>start a stock photo website that only accepts payment in monero
???

"just pay taxes when you cash out"
No, really.
Don't cash out until you make your goal. Hire a tax lawyer. Easy peasy.

bump

>>6297477
Yep at this point I've decided to forget about it until next years taxes. As far as I know that rule didn't take effect until January 1st, 2018 so won't matter for this years taxes.

>>6297911
doesn't work that way hombre

that's a fast ticket to tax evasion charges
do you not understand that you have to PROVE where you got your coins and if you don't your assets are frozen and you will be charged?

Just report anything you cashed out. If you get audited (.4% chance if you’re poor) they’ll ask for your forms and tell them you didn’t know. Reporting all of your trades would be asinine.

>>6298295
It's asinine but it's the rule.

If youre reporting 4 digits, dont bother reporting
If youre trading 5 digits, report when you cash out.
If youre trading 6+ digits, report every trade

>>6298421
This

why do you retards think it's so hard to download the trade history from your exchanges and calculate the gain or loss per trade

>>6298421
This my dude

>>6298421
> If youre trading 6+ digits, report every trade
that's why I have to manually recheck THOUSANDS of trades over several exchanges and wallet now in order to make sure to not pay more then I have to.

half way to 7 digits, thats worth 1-2 weeks of doing that shit :^)

Now I know it better.
Buy and hodl, do not daytrade shitcoins.

>>6298509
you guys are 100% fucked if you dont download it every 3 months

>>6298614
by the way, cointracking works like a charm.
just insert all your APIs or trade exports and you are done.
Free up to 250 Trades

It's cheaper for you by using this link in pic. Don't be stupid and pay more.

>>6298837
does that .csv file even work?

it's not a fucking csv. linux/libreoffice doesn't open it right

>>6298837
Fuck off IRS

>>6298897
it's a ms excel file

you can probably import it to (((google))) sheets

>>6299145
>proprietary .csv format
jesus christ

Seriously how the fuck will they know every trade. There is no traceble way to know I traded out of fun and into Sai coin. Literally no possible fucking way for them to know that. Just pay your shit on cashing out don’t be a retard

This is such pain, why can't they just take my money when I cash out, now I have to cash out crypto to be able to pay the taxman.................................................

bitcoin.tax

>>6299540
This. Best $20 spent ever.

>>6298211
I haven't had to face this problem. But I would still sit down with a tax lawyer. I'd give him all the records of my trades, and all that jazz. I'd go from there. Luckily I don't do much day-trading anyway.

>>6299326
Here’s the thing, if you don’t tell them, they won’t know. Unless you decide to cash out one day. Then you have to provide records, including years you didn’t report. This will raise a red flag or two in the irs system and you’ll be subject to an audit. And then you’ll most likely have to pay a fine and interest at whatever rate they deem is ‘fair’. And you still will have to go back and find all your trading info. Don’t be a retard. I don’t want to see any of the /biz/ness men become someone’s girlfriend in prison.

>>6298133
No. You always owed taxes. People just thought they could use like-kind exchange to delay taxes. But you would have to fight the irs to accept that. Most likely they would say fuck you give us more money, unless you wanted to lawyer up and try to fight them for it.

They just clairfied it with that, stating that they would never accept like-kind exchange for crypto. They will still probably rule that way for previous years taxes as well, but you can try to fight it.

>implying this stupid rule will last more than a year
>implying you'll need to cash out when you'll be able to buy anything with crypto soon

Let's say I have 1 ETH. I now trade this for DOGE, TRX or what ever, back and forth 10 times. I bought that 1 ETH for 1000$, but the trades make me let's say 1.9$ ETH

I never sell to fiat/cash out. Where the fuck is the money to pay gains for all those trades going to come from? I am with this logic forced to sell my ETH to cash out, which itself is a a taxable event...

>>6298295
Have you never heard the phrase “ignorance of the law excuses no one.” You say you didn’t know. they’ll say fuck you, you should have. Now pay us the taxes and fine.

>>6299932
>not preparing yourself anyway

>>6299855
So I literally have to sell my crypto to pay the taxman? that hurts me in so many ways

99.5% of my money is in crypto

>>6298837
how the fuck will the US government get data from binance unverified accounts lol

Fuck the IRS

>>6300104
It's not about them getting data you retard, it's about you justifying your capital gains whenever you decide to cash out

>>6297477
>paying taxes

>>6300027
The good news is that you don’t have to pay shit when you cash our. A small silver lining.

>>6300104
They dont need any of that data. The only data they need is
>What you bought in with
>What you cashed out

When the gain is suspicious -> audit

I will only pay what I cash out in FIAT. If the IRS wants to sort through me entire trade history and tax me on every individual trade, then they can go ahead and do so. But good luck figuering out how much I traded X shitcoin for Y coin on Z exchange and then figureing out how much Y coin was in USD exchanged for X coin USD... fucking autistic

>implying irs will track down my binance account registered with false info from a different country
good one bro.
I just bought btc in 2013 and held until whatever day i cash out. Will pay taxes accordingly.

>>6299968
Either you sell some to cover the tax or pay out of your bank account. And yes selling eth to cash out is a taxable event, but remember, it’s only gains that are taxed. If you sold your doge to eth- taxed on gains. Then eth to fiat, again tax on gains. Most likely will be no tax on that last transaction unless you’re holding eth for more than a day.

>>6300104
They probably won’t. But if you ever cash out, they’ll want to know where it came from and how you got to it. If you put fiat in from any USA based exchange, they’ll want to see how that initial trade got you to where you are cashing out.

>>6300193
Lmao, this is so fucked, guess thats whats up then

>>6300304
So I can really use the low price for the day and use that for all calculations?

>>6300247
They don’t really care about every single individual trade. They care about the sum of your capital gains minus loses. So if you get in with 10k. And cash out with 100k. They want taxes on the 90k difference. Then if you cash out more later, they’ll say where the fuck did this come from and start investigating. Or maybe they’ll say fuck it and just throw a lump fine at you of whatever they think you owe.

>>6300304
thats my point, if I only have 1 ETH , and it gained 30% , and I buy doge, where should I get the USD from

>>6300396
Maybe. If your books square up using that, then you’re good. If you suddenly have an extra 5k because you always used the lowest value, they might question it and all previous reports.

Of course you may get lucky and always slip under the radar, but if crypto gets going strong enougn at some point there will be a dedicated section to it and all taxes from it.

>buy and trade btc/fiat a bit on gdax
>do shitcoin trades on bittrex and now binance
>put them into the wallet
>cash out btc via gdax

I only report gdax trades, worked last year.

>>6299855
The whole rule is fucking dumb. I don't get taxed for trading baseball cards, which carry a USD value just like crypto. Why the fuck should I be taxed for essentially trading digital collectibles for other digital collectibles? I honestly have no idea how to pay my taxes properly at this point and my gains are in the sub thousand level so I don't give a fuck. Filing my taxes as normal and if the IRS wants to come after me for the month and a half I held 3 LTC at the end of the year, more power to em.

>>6300396
Whatever price you use, make sure it’s consistent on all buys and sells. I used cointracking, they do it all automatically.

>>6300649
I could just keep that excess money in crypto and cash out the rest

>>6300247
enjoy jail

>>6298211

you're an idiot

such an idiot that you will never realize it

>>6300263
What addresses did you hold the BTC in anon?

>uhhh
*freezes your assets and charges you with tax evasion*

nothing personal kid

>>6300485
the funny thing is you would probably still be better off with the fine.

the irs has no way of tracking your crypto trading on foreign exchanges

stay dumb and poor

>>6300744
enjoy frozen assets & prison lad

>>6300836
you get fucked when you cash out you immense retard

If you people truly believe in cryptocurrency you wouldn't cash out. The IRS has no way of freezing your wallet. This is what will kill the statist brigands.

>>6300855

you are a literal retard, and you don't even know it

you will never know it, and it's funny to me

>>6300908
>autistic NEET thinks he's smarter than the IRS
wew

>>6297548
haha nice

>>6300665
And it may continue to work. Or eventually they’ll catch it and fuck your hard. It’s the gamble you make and decide if it’s worth it or not.

>>6300685
Held less then a year you pay your income tax bracket for gains minus losses. More then a year, I think it’s something like a flat 15-20%. As for how filing taxes or not, see above.

>>6300705
Much like the above, but also you would have to acco Not for that if you ever wanted to cash it out. If you just leave it forever, that’s fine. Maybe. Eventually there will be people doing all kinds of accounting hijinks to finagle extra cash out. But again, they’re gambling.

>>6297826
to difficult to understand for the brainlet i am

>>6300825
Haha, possible. But who knows what the government will actually do if they think this is becoming enough of an issue.

>>6300872

This, seriously there are plenty of sites you can buy shit like gaming computers or what not with crypto, unless you're like looking to buy a house why bother?

If your port is below $100k I wouldn't worry about it, you're small fish.

It's the big boys that they are concerned over. If your port is over $100k go see a crypto tax specialist. I don't even recommend using bitcoin.tax or coin tracking, see the lawyer/cpa. Especially if you hit 7 digits.

>>6300685
This. I understand they're assets, but you cant charge people on the mark-to-market price of their fucking pokemon cards as they swap them in the playground.

I see tax as a threat but barring some weird supranational agreement, there'll be some way to cash out for 1-3% "tax" in laundering fees.

Bitcoin.tax.

I'm not even shilling. It's $30 for one year and you can upload your APIs from Bittrex, Binance and every other exchange. It automatically converts to fiat for you and it takes like 5 minutes to do.

>>6297477

You fucking don't. The government doesn't deserve that money to spend it on fucking explosions & war for our bloated military. Fuck our country.

I don't understand why anyone would worry about taxes unless you're trading on an exchange that is based in your country. Why the fuck would an exchange like Binance, which is based in Hong Kong, have anything to do with the IRS, for example? They'd tell them to fuck off

>>6301394
bitcoin.tax rats you out to the government

>>6301394

The problem with Bitcoin.tax is I have used so many defunct exchanges over the years like cryptsy and mintpal, I have no records of any trades from those, wtf am I supposed to do.

>>6300685
>I don't get taxed for trading baseball cards.
Technically, you do. Barter is taxed. But people usually don't report it, and IRS usually don't go after people unless significant value was exchanged.

>>6301494
>have 1 BTC in 2013
>trade 1 BTC for some shitcoin that moons at some point
>trade shitcoin back to BTC
>now have 10 BTC in 2018
>try to cash out 2 BTC
>You have to account for where the 2 BTC come from
>You can only account for 1 legally
>you get fined heavily and/or imprisoned for cashing out more than you were legally allowed to have

that's how it work sanon

with the irs __THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON ********YOUR ASS******* TO PROVE YOU DIDN'T LAUNDER OR PERFORM OTHER ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES FOR YOUR INCOME

>not converting it to a foreign currency and having a trusted friend in another(developing) country withdraw it stuff it into teddy bears and mail it to you
do you even /biz/?

>>6301601

wow, you are fucking dumb

>>6301601
Or you can just sell your BTC for cash...

>>6301721
and get arrested

>>6301714
stay mad your retarded NEETplan is going to fuck you up the ass (LITERALLY LMFAO)

>>6301640
>having friends

>>6301211
Or just do taxes yourself. It's not complicated, and the instructions are written in English. People are being silly making a huge deal out of this.

Just use bitcoin.tax

>>6301777
the entire point of hiring someone to do your taxes is because they legally are responsible

you pay more for immunity to jail

>>6301721
Which would work. Unless they realize your spending more than you are reporting and question how you’re affording a lambo working as a high school janitor.

If you don’t want to report your taxes, you can do that. But you are gambling you will never draw their attention or get unlucky enough to get audited. You have to decide which way you want to go.

>>6301832
>because they legally are responsible

Holy shit, no. How do you even feed yourself?

Nice thing about IDs is you can identify the brain damaged retards and ignore their subsequent posts.

>>6301857
What the fuck are you even on about? Who realizes? The spooky government man that each person has assigned to follow them and watch their spending?

Are you fucking retarded? You know tons of people live on cash right. And not just criminals. A lot of older people who don't trust banks.

I swear the IRS hires someone to make these threads.

>>6301601
Say that you bought 10 BTC 2013, print out an email or say you bought in person with cash. "only" get taxed on the gains for those BTC, not the cost basis of all your trades

>>6298394
and only like 1000 people followed it last year

Serious question, how am I able to report btc withdrawn and cashed from pozis that pose as "ICOs"? Or to put it simple, ICOs that hav exit scammed but where you have profited off.

>>6302162
And after they require you to show the address in which you held the funds, what do you do?

>>6301991
Yes people live on cash. Some report taxes. Some don’t. But it’s not easy to own property (cars, houses, anything that needs insurance or you have to report to some institution about) if you only pay cash and don’t report taxes. That’s what I was talking about. If you have low income, but spend large amounts on things like that. You are more likely to get fucked. Will everyone? No. That’s why I said it’s a gamble.

Just show a random address with 10 BTC sent at that time , that sent the coins to your exchange ? Or just pick one recent that sent 10, say that you had them in a friend wallet. Say that you found a wallet after 5 years , just pick one that sent to an exchange recently.

Just a few ideas right now , you can of course come up with a lot more

Crypto counts as a gambling gain on taxes. Source several accountants I know

Anons if you live in West Coast USA I have a CPA who is getting heavy into crypto. Shes the best.

Dont give a fuck if you use her or not, just trying to help out fellow /biz/ because you guys have been good to me in the past.

http://blackinkindustries.com/

>>6302307
use salary to pay those things. use crypto cashouts to pay gas, food, beer, clothes, occasional electronics etc. Live a "Normal" life with a luxury edge

>>6298133
Same anon. 800+ page tax return. Im sure they will just look at one of the 800 8824s, see its crypto and reject the like-kind treatment. But im hopeful. For me, its the difference between paying 1k and 6k in taxes. No cash to show for it all in crypto still.

>>6297477
Okay you mongs this is actually really easy.

Go to bitcoin.tax - pay $20 and then use the functions to download all of your trades.

THen you can determine if you want to use LIFO or FIFO or even like-kind - if you hold some and daytrade, LIFO may give you a big tax advantage.

>>6297477

>have ~$300 at binance

So, how many lifetime sentences will i have to spend in jail for tax evasion, if i don't report every single trade to the tax man?

>>6302619
>bitcoin.tax

I thought the whole entire point of bitcoin is to not pay your taxes. That's what the silk road was for.

>>6302619
But it looks like they don't support Cryptsy, MtGox, directbet.eu and the coins I got from mining and faucets, now what?

>>6302497
That could work much better than trying to use crypto cash for everything. Still a chance to get flagged somewhere, but much less likely. Depends where you fall in your normal lifestyle I would assume.

how the fuck is anyone going to know what trades i did unless i tell them? lmao

>>6302934
Simple, don’t tell them. And pray to your god they never audit you when you decide to cash out. lmao

>tfw traded at a loss before the new year so don't have to pay anything for 2017
>tfw already 100% up
thanks litecoin for being shitty

Not sure anyone really gets it. Reading a lot of
>Don't cash out until you make it
>Just buy stuff with crypto and don't cash out

YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON ALL YOUR TRADES!!! Trade some BTC for eth? TAX. Buy into a moon for a few hours? TAX! Move your assets from an exchange to a wallet? TAX! Fucking EVERYTHING is taxed at this point. The only way to "avoid" the tax is to buy a lot of one asset and just hodl for more than a year. Even then, you will pay tax on the initial purchase. Lets say you buy BTC through coinbase, transfer to binance and trade for XLM. That's THREE taxable events. One for buying BTC, one for moving to binance and one for trading for XLM. These tax laws are FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!!

>>6303389
All tax is on the gain only. How are you taxed on moving from exchange to wallet? Source on that?

is bitcoin.tax any good?

>>6303447
Just read a bit more. Transferring from an exchange to a wallet is not considered a sale because you still own the currency but you have to prove it. The IRS has no way of knowing that you didn't make a sale and thus will attempt to tax you by default if they knew about it. Guilty until proven innocent.

Plan on buying more crypto in the near future so I can buy more drukqs.

The fuck are the feds and the IRS going to do about it?

>>6303447
>All tax is on the gain only.
Indeed. Legally you can also write off the losses. It's time consuming but you can probably avoid a lot of the taxes by writing off all of your bad trades. Of course, it won't matter if you turned 5k into 300k in a year.

I don't know about the USA, but in the UK we have a "capital gains allowance" which means as long as you make less than £11,000 you don't even need to report it to HMRC (the equivalent of you guys' IRS). Dunno if there's something similar in the USA but if there is and you're under that, just withdraw it all, and place it all in one crypto you're dead set on.

either that or just fucking track everything, I've made shit tons of trades so I'm basically gonna cry come reporting time

>>6297477
Just don't pay taxes, durrr. Escape on an ATV to canada and fight bears, Cash out little by little and buy snow supplies in cash when necessary.

so how do you report for the loss and gains on crypto?

I know you list trades on the form 8989

but do you have to use a schedule D form too

>>6303389

This is wrong. The taxable event only occurs when you buy XLM with BTC, and the gains are based on the appreciation of BTC since the coinbase purchase.

It’s still total bullshit though.

so if I don't have any cash am I going to have to cash out crypto to pay taxes? I'm all in ETH and a few alts.

>>6304021
Yes

Heres my problem with all of this. Be 100% in crypto and get taxed on every trade. Owe 500k in taxes for last year. Market crashes and I dont even have enough to pay the taxes on the "profits" I owe from last year.

>>6304209
Sell for a loss and deduct the loss from your taxes. Rebuy a day later.

>>6304306
But I owe taxes on last years profits. Couldnt deduct losses now until next year?

>>6304209
Welcome to high risk investing. But if you owed 500k in taxes, the market would have to have a major crash to not have enough to pay that off. You might have to sell completely, but I think in most cases you could pay it.

>>6304209
You could try not to make trades that trigger a 500k tax event

>>6304341
You can only carry 3k? In losses forward one year. Can’t deduct them at all backwards to a previous year, I believe.

>>6304341
Then you might be fucked.

>>6303821
I just did a check, a lot of my trades were profit in BTC, but losses in relative fiat terms, so being able to right those losses off the total profit will actually work in my favour.

Something to consider, it's not hard to get daily prices and do a vlookup against your trades

>>6304209
Just don't report it stupid. It will get blown in a single child porn orgy party with the Clintons and Obama and Trump too. Why pay that shit?

>>6297477
Is killing yourself a taxable event?

>>6304528
Yes. Inheritance tax.

>>6304605
In that case the IRS can have my bags. I hope it's heavier for them than they were for me.

>>6304528

afaik, in some countries if you try to commit suicide and fail the state will actually prosecute you.
People are just property of the government these days. Cattle at the tax farm, born to be fleeced and milked by the owners. And to produce more cattle of course.

how much of a tax retard are you to not understand capital gains and capital losses? literally, you are taxed on all income in a year, you can simply calculate based on how much you put in and how much you got out you fucking retard. holy shit the misinfo on /biz/ is astounding.

IF YOU SELL HIGH, CALCULATE HOW MUCH PROFIT YOU MADE. THAT IS THE CAPITAL GAIN. ADD UP CAPITAL GAIN FROM EACH TRANSACTION. THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF GAIN YOU'VE MADE IS TAXABLE FOR CAPITAL TAXES. IF YOU LOSE MONEY ON A TRADE, I.E. SELL LOWER THAN YOU BOUGHT, YOU CAN SUBTRACT THAT DIFFERENCE (THE AMOUNT YOU LOST) FROM YOUR TOTAL CAPITAL GAINS. THESE ARE CAPITAL LOSSES.

YOU ARE NOT TAXED FOR FULL PRICE OF A PURCHASE YOU FUCKING RETARDS. IF YOU BUY $10K WORTH OF A COIN AND SELL FOR $12K YOU ARE TAXED ON $2K. CHRIST. IF YOU BUY AGAIN AT $10K BUT IT CONTINUES DIPPING AND YOU SELL AT $8K CONGRATULATIONS YOU PAY NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX.

YOUR OVERALL CAPITAL GAIN IN A YEAR IS ADDED TO YOUR TAXABLE INCOME FROM ANY JOB YOU HAD. THE TOTAL AMOUNT YOU MADE IN A YEAR GETS PUT AGAINST THE TAX BRACKETS, AND YOU PAY IN THE TAX BRACKET.

DYOR AND STOP BEING A BUNCH OF RETARDS

>>6304649
Your bags are the lightest thing in the world for anyone other than yourself. They didn’t pay for them to get them, so it’s all profit.

>>6304820
who are you talking to?

>>6304820
>ADDED TO YOUR TAXABLE INCOME FROM ANY JOB YOU HAD
>implying /biz/ isn't just neet pajeets

>>6304820
CAPITAL GAINS TAX APPLIES TO LITERALLY ANYTHING YOU BUY THEN SELL LATER. BUY A COMPUTER, SELL LATER? IF YOU SELL LOWER THEN SUBTRACT THAT CAPITAL LOSS FROM TOTAL INCOME. BUY A CAR AND SELL AT A PROFIT? ADD THAT TO YOUR TOTAL CAPITAL GAINS. SO IF YOU'RE A DUMBASS LIKE ME BUYING A NEW CAR LAST YEAR AND I SELL IT THIS YEAR FOR $10K DEPRECIATION (EMBARASSING I KNOW) THEN I CAN SUBTRACT $10K FROM MY CAPITAL GAINS.

>>6304820
People like OP make people leave this board
people like you make people stay

>>6304966
What a bunch of horseshit.
>Oh Hi Mr. IRS; I bought this Toyota Corolla 20 years ago for 20k and sold it today for 1k, please deduct :DDD

>>6304966
maybe for a business, not an individual

>>6300665

Yea but gdax has records on how much BTC you bought for how much and the dates. And they turn that info over to the feds yearly. If you buy 2BTC then cashout a mysterious 25BTC a year later your chance of being audited is very high.

>>6302050
THIS
is not that far fetched in this day and age, actually

>SK literally makes bitcoin tax task force
>thinking the US hasn't already hatched similar plans, but, as usual, won't tell anyone
>NSA-style IRS employees are literally being paid to shitpost on a chink cartoon exchange forum about all-things-shitcoin and HODL DURR
WHAT TIMELINE IS THIS?

People buy and sell on craigslist all day long and don’t pay shit. And they put their fucking addresses and phone numbers there. You think the IRS will find your shit? No. Just pay what you cash out on. Jesus fuck.

>>6304820
a lot of people needed this caps'ed out. thank you, anon.

The whole fucking scheme pisses me off

What the dick does the government have to do with me trading lines of code on some chink website? If anything I should be paying the Chinese, they have more to do with it. But no congress needs more money to fund inner city niggers, blow up Muslim children, and settle their sexual assault cases and they're the ones with the most guns

This shit's gonna turn me ancap yet