/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>6183100
>pay back centrelink because I was a student while doing crypto-crypto trades.
Serves you right for being on welfare scum, I work and go to uni. Also the ATO does not give a fuck they would understand if half your trade information is gone and would be happy to take a percentage

>>6183100
Fuck I literally have to do the same shit when I have to cash out as well, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>6183100
Also pay back centerlink? You have already committed fraud, enjoy heavy fines ontop of repaying them.

What if you loose half your trade information , make a capital loss or literally anything else

>reporting all ur trades like the ATO could find that shit

If u were using coinsport then yeah suck it up normie scum.

Should just provide part or ur trades, make some of them look like 1 year holds like u bought ETH to buy shitcoins then sold for ETH to cash out right?
Make it look like u holder that ETH.
Anyways I won’t go into details to explain u son, get fucked.

Your accountant is a cuck. Just pay tax on fiat transfers. Australia has no way of knowing

Just start a company with its own accounts, the company borrows capital in crypto from anon source in the market, ie yourself. Company can then covert to fiat and record it on the books as an unsecured cash loan

>>6183755
They know now after OP saw a fucking cuck of an accountant

>>6183755
Pretty much this, the government would have to ask Binance or whatever you use for the records and the Chinese wouldn't give a single fuck. Just pay the taxes on capital gains.

>>6183100
your accountants talking about 'letter of the law' type shit, like yes, you SHOULD legally do what he says, but they don't actually know about all your crypto-to-crypto trades.

also what if some hacker got your password to Binance and traded a bunch of your shit without your authorization? surely you wouldn't profit from that

>>6183100
do i have to pay tax if i cash out on the exchange? but i dont deposit it back into my bank?

>>6184124
As soon as it turns into FIAT, its considered capital gains.

>>6183100
>disposing of 1 Capital Gain Asset and Acquiring a new one.
Your never saw a profit on this trade, so you never had tax to pay.

Your accountant isn't even a very good jew. Stop fudding you lying nigger.

Why on earth would you have to pay money on every trade?

So if you make 10,000 trades a year with and end up breakever, you still have to pay a fucking mountain in tax?

>>6183100
>transfer all your shit to monero
>buy with your credit card some shit coin
>transfer shitcoin to monero
>"wow, officer, i 100x in one trade. here's the tax"

>>6184169
will they know?

fuckkkkk

why am i so retarded with any tax stuff
at least i've made less than 1k so far

>>6184233
You don't. It's the new fake-news meme spread hard by kikes to attack crypto and by the rabbi time to get real laws passed to fuck over traders.

Dumbass motherfuckers pretending that changes to tax codes are retroactive to prior years deserve the gas chamber too.

>>6184233
Because every trade is an asset for another.

>>6184233
legally yes, in some countries (including USA I believe) what you just said is in fact the case. You could end up with more tax than you actually made in profit.

Reality is though that it's not feasible to really keep track of each trade by each person. So while you'd be a naughty boy if you didn't report it all, there's no real way to know if you're report is accurate or not.

>>6184124
Yes.
>>6183621
Looks like I'm off to jail then... Fuck...
>>6183647
>>6183657
>>6184092
>>6184233
To be honest the COST of the assets, or marketprice if that's lower, has to be included as assessable income for the year. And I only trade binance,kucoin,liqui, I'm just afraid of getting audited, then them being like, OK log into your accounts and show us your trading history (if I was told to prove the legitamacy of my records)

>>6184273
less than 1k? You wont get taxed on that lol, they will know if you verified yourself with a group like CoinJar (assuming you are from AU), the government will ask the bank, the bank will point them to CoinJar.

>>6183100
welfare leech
>Nothing of value was lost.

>>6184371
>OK log into your accounts and show us your trading history (if I was told to prove the legitamacy of my records)

Maybe someone hacked your account and made trades using it?

>>6184233

No and anyone who says anything to the contrary is memeing you or just plain incorrect

if i buy eth or ltc on coinspot then transfer it to bittrex to trade then eventually sell it as eth/btc in person will i have effectively avoided tax?

>>6184371
I have actually done the same thing, I am going to cancel my payments next week, setup another account with another bank and make a small cashout which is the initial investment and some profit. Dont just stop the payments and make a massive cashout, thats sus as fuck.

Just say you transfered it all to your personal wallett and then fucked up and lost it all and then claim losses on your tax return

>>6184477
I guess so, thats laundering, dont get caught.

All you people are literally trying to money launder or commit fraud. Crypto-crypto is clearly a taxable event. And I'm making a shitton of money trading. In November I'm going to be able to pull out a lot of my money at a tax rate of 22.5% (best you can get for Australia) and I'll be happy knowing that everything is done by the book and they can't fuck me over later.

>>6184941
Holding for a year in this market, I am guessing you went long on something like Cardano? In the end im probably going to end up paying tax.

nontaxable income is about 18 grand in aus

i've been told you can transfer to the virgin islands to not pay tax on crypto

>>6184941
And FYI, you already committed fraud accepting payments from the government while your crypto assets have been above a certain amount.

>>6185215
Yeah I fucked up, I'll pay the fines/accept the consequences. Don't be me anyone.

>>6185413
At worst it would probably be a fine, but I think im going to risk it by cancelling payments and cashing out later in a different bank account, one the government isn't already eyeballing.

>monero, onion

what happens when you "find" a usb with 10 BTC?

what happens when you "lose" your private keys or wallet?

what happens when you "suck" at trading and have massive losses?

>>6185857
He can risk launder, inb4 gets caught and years in jail, you need to know what you are actually doing for it to work.

>>6185857
>lost ur key
Well forget about ever turning it into fiat and if u do don’t put in ur bank account, the ato won’t be happy if u miraculously find ur private key and don’t pay their cut.
Might as well not report at all...

I’ve researched a bit and I’ve found that your either don’t report it and cash it in private sells then use that cash (can’t buy property, cars, anything that requires serious paperwork or bank account) or u pay ur taxes. The rest of the options are reserved for rich fags and are only worth it and feasible if you made at least 1mm

>>6183100
Lol, no problem across the Tasman.

>>6186231
Yep, you are stuck with what they call dirty money, can't do too much with it.

Your accountant is a cuck. Crypto has no capital value.

>>6186386
Thats what I tell the tax department when I cash out.

What's the tax rate on crypto profits in AUS?

>>6186585
35 percent

>>6185857
pls delet sir taxman is almighty powerful

you could to jail XD

>>6186231
Also to answer op
No you don’t have to report every trade, they tax u on the capitals gains or losses for the financial year, you have to provide every trade as means to prove where the capital gains came from.
If you were smart you would find a way to provide proof for these capital gains from a 1 year hold.

>>6183100
what am I missing here?

if you have $1000 of BTC, it goes rises to $2000 and you trade for ETH, you pay tax on that $1000 gain. Then if that ETH goes up to $10000 and you cash out you pay tax on $8000.
SO IN TOTAL, you pay tax on $1000 + $8000 = $9000 taxable profit

so tell me how that is any different than just taking your final cash out and subtracting it from your initial amount? In this case you end with $10000 and started with $1000 so you get the same taxable income, $9000
how does the number of trades you made change anything at all?

>>6183294
you can work and still get centrelink payments

What is up with this meme? I see someone mention this shit almost daily. You can't seriously be telling me that any government anywhere has an interest in looking at your entire trade history? Once the fiat hits the bank account, fair enough, you can just track your statements and pay your taxes based on that, but per trade? That's WAY too much data to know about unless you're willingly giving it all to them without them even asking.
I must be retarded or something. Do you also have to declare taxes on money your family gives you as a gift or to help pay the rent one time, for example?
>t. never had to pay anything other than income tax because I move countries constantly

>Where you use bitcoin to purchase goods or services for personal use or consumption, any capital gain or loss from disposal of the bitcoin will be disregarded (as a personal use asset) provided the cost of the bitcoin is $10,000orless.

$10,000 over a period of time (year)? $10,000 on just one transaction (i.e. the purchase of a shitty car)? $10,000 as the total of multiple transactions/purchases? I don't get it.

>>6186611
That's fucked. Fuck those thieves

>>6186975
Crypto is not currency in Australia, its like buying a Pokémon card and then reselling it, assuming the amount u sell it for iOS below 10k u don’t pay taxes on the capital gains from disposal of goods, you can only avoid paying taxes on 10k a year tho. Even if it’s different assets.

>>6186975
on one transaction, car dealers ect need to notify tax dept when you spend over 10k in single transaction

Ausfag here. My income is 6 figures and with my crypto gains added in, I'm looking at a 47% tax rate.

This country is fucked. Half the government's tax coffers are emptied by welfare.

>>6186231
yeah to piggyback off of this you would have to legitimately launder, which is obviously risking a prison sentence and takes coordination to pull off without the taxman on your ass

just pay your taxes kiddos

>>6187562
>just pay ur taxes

If u have a decent job besides crypto I end up paying over 40% of ur total income for that year dude.

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Tax-treatment-of-crypto-currencies-in-Australia---specifically-bitcoin/

>>6186940
Yeah wtf is the taxman going to follow me on the blockchain, see my etherdelta shit coin trades and find my unverified biniance account? I'm fine with paying taxes on the total I cash out but I'm not tracking my trades

>>6183100
aus fag here
this tax shit is making me wonder if any of this is even worth it
just find your local ISIS members and give them your coin, just as a fuck you to the government

>>6186647
Well that's originally what I wanted to do. I wanted to. See that TRX came out and did like 10000%, say I invested in the ICO and just held.

When did btc-e.com close down though? Was thinking about saying I bought and sold on that but the site and records are gone now so you'll have to believe mine.

>>6186675
It's no different. It's just that even if you're still holding and didn't cash out anything, you still must pay tax at the end of this year.

>>6186675
It's people either not understanding that, or complaining about the labour of having to record every single trade.

you dont have to do anything until you withdraw cash to your bank account yeah?

What happens when you don't file a tax return?
Can I just not file a tax return next year for an extra few months until like November when I can cash out a massive chunk and pay relevant taxes?

I already pay 40% tax on my wage earnings
I pay tax on all my food/petrols/services

Why the fuck would I pay tax on cryptocurrency?

The government should let you spend cryptocurrency as you please, without tax. The economy would fucken boom.

Meanwhile IKEA, APPLE, all these big companies are not paying a fucken cent in tax

The government are forcing people to keep their crypto in crypto. It's good for the crypto market, bad for the economy.

Use binance/chink exchanges and they won't be able to trace shit.

Privacy coins will always be here too

>>6189912

You could get away with it if it's under $50k, otherwise eyebrows could be raised.

>>6189984
late-filling penalty, plus you pay taxes on the gains of last year.

The nov tax return would still be on what you did the year before

>>6183100
just buy gold with coin then use gold to buy a house

ez pz

>>6183100
how much are you withdrawing?

>>6184941
The best you can get is 0%.

The catch is you have to write and ethereum dapp and have bought ethereum a long time ago with under 10k.

If you,meet the above,conditions the purchase was for hobby and not investment, and your cost basis was under 10k.. Ie; not taxable.

fuck, by the sounds of it if you trade crypto to crypto and you held the first crypto for less than a year bang you lose half what you gained and have to pay tax on it this year

>>6191420
I actually fall within those conditions.

Would it be possible to open some bank account in a tax haven then move the profits there? There's no way I'd like to give uncle sam a hug chunk of it to feed and house niggers.

>>6183100

Total bullshit, the ATO guidance is clear that it isnt gains until it goes back into AUD you piece of shit

>>6191861
Use a service like local bitcoin and trade your coins for cash.Just make sure to use an anonymizer ahead of time to conceal the source of the coins It is hard of uncle sam to tax you if there is no record of your profits.

Or you can go into the heroin game and start selling drugs on the black market. All those profits from the coins will give you good startup capital

>>6187308
See an accountant and start a business to get the 27.5% rate - it's what I'm doing.

>>6184425
>someone hacked my account and made me a millionaire!

Genius

I’m wondering this myself. Honestly could be pushing 1m in a years time and have to pay like 50%?
Fml the price you pay for living in Aus

>>6192741
If you hold a coin longer than 12 months you get 50% capital gains discount. This pushes the max tax rate to 22.5%

>>6192656
How does this work? I have an abn but it’s only for my part time business (less than 20k per year) I also work FT on wages which is my main income

>>6192974
This sounds like what my situation will be. Better h

>>6187308
not true, only 3% of our taxes go toward welfare. I hope you don't vote liberal

>>6190474
The bank reports any abnormal transaction above 1k retard, so anything above 1k that u usually don’t get into ur account (wage,weekly payments etc) is reported.

>>6183294

This. I worked 25 hours a week at least through out uni. Was never gonna be a dole bludger lining up for my free hand outs.

OP deserves to pay back Centrelink for excepting the government to pay for his uni books

Another Ausfag here. I am a professional accountant and ATO ALREADY clarified that technically YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY TAX FOR EVERY SINGLE TRANSACTION. You are required to pay the FINAL PROFIT MARGIN.

Or just have small private transactions from time to time through localbitcoins and don't file it :^)

>>6193355
How can I avoid paying fuken 30% of my final profit,
I’ll have to give 300k of my hard earned shekels ffs I was planning on buying a cheap nice house with my profits but can’t get anything for under 1mm REEEEEEEEEE

>>6193355
That’s good, as a day trader it would be fucking hectic trying to account for every single trade.
So how to we get lower tax rates when i comes time to cash in? Salary is 90k and I earn 20k on abn. Am I fucked?

>just spoke to my (((accountant)))

that's where you went wrong cunt, you have to pay someone that charges $300 an hour for advice that will actually help you, or you have to DYOR

Can't you buy gold from an Australian online bullion company?

>>6193355

do you have to do that each year or only when you finally convert back to AUD

>>6193355
Do you have any source on that? I would be so damn grateful.

>>6183100
Buy BTCP and hide your crypto

Binance trade history splits every trade into each partial sell until your order is filled too, fucks sakes

i lost 100's of BTC on an old hdd i threw out years ago, can i use that to offset current gains? if not taxman isn't getting a single fucking satoshi from me

>>6187308
>>6190382
>>6189197
>>6192741
>>6193355
WE'RE ALL GONNA MAKE IT CUNTS!

Seriously though. How come our PM can have fuckin offshore accounts in the Cayman Islands and we can't?

Anybody know anything about setting up companies there or other offshore places so that you control the funds (as you control the company) but you don't pay individual capital gains tax on them here?
This is the best option I can think of because you can use that company to then buy property etc anywhere in the world right?

>>6186276
Kiwibro, what's the deal for you mate?

Is it just another meme or can you buy gold with your coins and not pay tax?