/biz/ - Business & Finance

i really don't understand the government that's why I keep myself busy with mrbeastmovement's chart which is here >>58871261

because the money printers don't give a fuck about you. they want more money and more profit for themselves

>>58871255
it's too late. the US is already borrowing money just to pay interest on the debt it already has. high rates are the only thing stopping wild volatility across the entire market, because bonds are a sink for dollars. but this just makes the debt bigger and more expensive, which leads to more money being created. we are long past the point of this being salvagable through fiscal responsibility

>>58871255
he has an understanding of economics of a child

>>58871255
>says the CEO of company that existed off government spending

>>58871280
He is right though.
Also, it won't stop jews jewing goyim.

>>58871255
Ironic because he wouldn't have and success at all if it weren't for the infinite free money printing

>>58871280
he's dumbing it down for the masses but is still 100% correct.

>>58871255

Elon (and 99.99% of normies, including most of you retards on 4chan) don't even understand how money is created, yet you think you can actually pose solutions for the financial system.

Not a single one of you should have the right to vote.

>>58871273
Not really. We just stop.

>>58871285
Who would know better?

>>58871414
>just stop every propped up market (real estate and bonds) and every sing welfare system the government is running
>it will be fine

Yes. Private debt creation is non-negligible though, and it grows larger as the global banks grow larger. There’s nothing special about government borrowing vs corporate borrowing, it’s all inflationary over the long term since demand is driven up.

>>58871285
yet turns a profit

>>58871444
Although his point of “reduce wasteful government spending” is fucking key, people seem unable to grasp that it doesn’t matter if they’re printing 100 dollars or 100 trillion, what matters is the return on that investment.

>>58871440
Will be fine for everyone but welfare queens.

>>58871499
learn to read, it won't be fine for landlords and house owners and bond holders (ie banks) either. Massive crash, basically, and after the banks go down a depression like never seen before.

>>58871505
If you own your house nothing would happen.
Landlords are typically scum and/or investment bank operations.
Bond holders are retarded chumps feeding the machine.

Sorry druggie. There will be withdraw symptoms.
You don't just get to keep taking drugs to avoid them forever while we all pay for it.

someone needs to trick him into taking a macro econ class, this is so sad

>>58871414
let me emphasize that the only thing keeping inflation down is the government's willingness to pay dollar holders more dollars if they are willing to not spend them. that is, the US is printing money to keep dollars from entering the wider economy. when they stop paying, dollars will be dumped in large quantities, and inflation will skyrocket as a result.

>>58871453
>profit
EVs never worked and china is going to make tesla irrelevant in making even shittier "cars" cheaper.

>>58871414
you can't just stop - you can't just write off that interest. it will be paid - in dollars which have to be printed to do it. hyperinflation of debt is the only way out of the debt pain - so buy btc or gold now

>>58871663
And?
>>58871771
>>58871663
You druggies are hilarious. Always a reason not to stop.

>>58871771
>you can't just write off that interest
countries have defaulted on their national debt before. I honestly don’t know which is more likely in the US: hyperinflation, or government default and austerity. both would constitute a massive failure on the part of the state, but hyperinflation is more likely to be the literal end of the US federal government, while austerity would be very painful for them (and many citizens) but would be kind of like amputating a limb in order to survive.

>>58871791
the thread topic is about solving price inflation. your proposal would have a permanent opposite effect. so it's good you have no influence over policy

>>58871255
this tweet is how you know 100% this guy is just a puppet retard for the establishment.

>>58871841
>permanent
topkek

How you want the federal government to spend smartly is a lot different at different tiers of wealth though

>>58871771
>you can't just write off that interest
Yes you can. Shoot the bankers in the head, nationalize the banks, seize their assets, assert all prior debts no longer exist, and outlaw charging interest on loans.

>>58871280
>iT's NoT tHaT sImPle, TrUsT tHe ExPeRtS!!!

fuck off bootlicker, print more money = it becomes worth less and less

>>58871255
They wouldn't have to print more if everyone paid all their taxes.
But people don't want to do that.

>>58871978
Why should the populace pay for the government's absurd overspending? KYS

>>58871650
>>58871842
what an ignorant thing to say.
go back to r*ddit faggots.

>>58871882
Like if I become a billionaire suddenly I think sidewalks are a waste of tax dollars

Pretty much everything except a military to protect my stuff is a waste of money if I'm a billionaire.

>>58872145
money printing is done by private banks not by government spending

>>58871280
i print money staking $rwa (14% apy) and $sol (5%~ apy), why can't the us do the same?

>>58872184
Who do the private banks print their money for and at the request of?

>>58872184
Federal spending made up 25% of the total GDP this year, its a fuckall huge portion of the economy.

Also given how you view the role of the fed and their mandates for chartered banks it could theoretically be argued it’s all “federal” printing. The only non-federal lending would then be only existing foreign held cash, “Eurodollars”.

>>58872440
lenders????
do you understand how fractional reserve banking operates? yes even before fiat currency, even before QE, before the federal reserve, and before the USA existed.

>be me
>daytrader, of course
>playing some superverse's vidya at work, nothing hardcore, just plain town builder
>get bored, switch over to news
>see something about US economy tanking
>lol_wut.jpg
>watching the dollar fall faster than my grades in high school
>mfw we might actually get aryan american goth girl refugees
>visions of goth girls flooding the streets of my shitty country
>tfw US downfall is my wet dream come true
>realize i'm a disgusting degenerate
>don’t even care
this is the future i chose and i love it

>>58872290
gravity labs in my case my fellow porn addicted fiend

>>58872541
The largest lender is the government.

>>58871410
See
>>58871966

>>58871255
Because it’s way easier than raising taxes and the government hates you and wants to crush you.

Inflation is fucking caused by the printing of money. Some times printing money is necessary in order to keep the economy afloat with out sending it into a fucking complete downward spiral and everyone living under a bridge, The thing is the government (under republicans and democrats) always loves to spend this money extremely frivolously. Such as under covid when the USG was giving hand outs to fucking carnival cruse liners

>>58871324
He's not right. Not even fucking close, lmao. "The government spending money" Is not the cause of inflation.

>>58873341
Fuck off, Krugman.

>>58871255
Inflation isn't necessarily caused by government spending. Spending is more of a symptom than a cause. But he's right about the second part.
>have lots of dollar denominated debt
>but you control the dollar
>"print" more -> can pay debt service; inflation -> real value of debt lower -> can pay debt service ----> cycle of debt expansion and currency debasement
There's some ideas that it never needs to end when your currency is hegemonic. When you're highly indebted and lose dollar supremacy? That's a big risk.
>>58871838
Sovereign debt default historically is not uncommon. There are some countries that have never defaulted, but these are in the global minority and the list is smaller when you consider last resort restructuring as a type of default. It also often happens at relatively moderate debt:gnp levels.

>>58871410
>He is wrong!
>But I refuse to elaborate how, or why he is wrong
>Oh, and also u'r retarded
Spoken like a Dunning Krugeretard

Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon, in the sense that it is and can be produced only by a more rapid increase in the quantity of money than in output.
t. Milton Friedman
It is honestly and genuinely that simple. If you make more money, you dilute the value of existing money - inflation. Anybody who tells you anything else is either ignorant or deceiving you.

>>58873363
Government spending *IS* the cause, because the government spends in excess of their take in taxes and makes up the difference with new money. Inflation is pretty much a regressive tax on all extant USD, which affects those that store their wealth in USD (ie: Your bank accounts, the cash in your wallet, your paycheck) more than those that store their wealth in assets (Commodities, stocks, etc).
The wealthy don't keep their value parked in savings accounts or CDs, the poor and middle class do. You want to know about rising inequality in the US, about how the rich keep getting richer and the poor keep getting poorer? Look at the monetary policy of the Fed and you have every answer you need laid out for you, plain as day. If we expressed inflation as a tax on USD, people would be getting their pitchforks and torches out, but by doing it through the back door, it goes largely unnoticed.

>>58871255
It's disconcerting that they let Musk say all the obvious stuff. I feel like they're manipulating people into liking him. I want to like him but the manipulation freaks me out.

Of course some of this stuff probably isn't obvious to idiots but every time I watch the news I'm always laughing because they say "INFLATION INFLATION" and then someone from the government says "we need to give everyone some extra money to ease the cost of living pressures" and then at the end the finance guy is like "oh well, inflation is still a bit high so the reserve bank won't be able to lower rates" and these three bits of the news are like simple puzzle pieces no one seems to be able to put together. Like they have created this ingenious mechanism to rape the shit out of most people by debt trapping them, putting up rates to keep them near breaking point, and keeping them there by getting the government, who doesn't give a fuck about rates to make up for all the spending to keep inflation high to keep everyone pinned. Hahahaha. I enjoy it because everyone is too much of a cunt to actually think about anything and they've never cared to stand up to obvious things the the vax and immigration before. Obvious things. Cocksuckers. Get raped. Everyone deserves to be poor. Much much poorer than now. They need to learn some humility. Life is too easy for them. Maybe they will be less wasteful when they have nothing.

>>58871280
If tommorow i say there no 21m bitcoins but 50m what do you think the price will do? You commies are so fucking stupid it hurts.. no in fact i want to hurt you.

>>58873341
It is right. More money supply does create inflation because the money is worth less. IT is that fucking simple. I do not want to hold a dollar when I freaking know that they print like crazy. I want to own anything but $. And if I and other people with IQs above 100 do that? What does it do?? You stupid lowly cunt. I tell you what it does because your small brain is clearly not capable of figuring this simple shit. It inflated prices. It is not your small sister buying fucking lollipops. CUNT!

>>58871255
FUCK, you idiots drive me so fucking crazy with your stupid non thinking brains.

Is it that hard to read up and educate yourself on what money truly is, versus currency, and how they game you?

First off, whether physical or digital, the 'printing' of currency comes via debt. That won't mean anything to you, so let me explain, it comes from the market (which is you and everyone participating, peoples and companies and whatever entities, you all collectively participate one way or another whether you want to or not because your currency is being inflated) being lent 'money' by the central bank but this comes in the forms of mortgages and loans. Now the money for these loans does not exist, the bank does not lend from a pool of currency that savers have put together, o no niggra, that's not how it works just because you wish it was so. They just create a number on the ledger and put interest on it. What does that mean? It has the effect of creating less currency out there than can fulfill the debt, meaning that bankruptcies in the economy are one hundred percent guaranteed, which creates the effect of more people having to take out loans to cover the interest in an ever increasing ponzi scheme that becomes increasingly unstable.

They need to keep the ponzi scheme going otherwise you the people will wake up to the monetary reset and endure some hard times, which they don't want unless they can control you, upon which they will let the system collapse and have you begging for more ponzi schemes and UBI because you people are too dumb and stupid to welcome the pain of personal responsibility, becoming your own bank and "minding your business" - which doesn't mean keep your nose out of your affairs but it means minding your fucking money and what the government and central banking j00z try to do with it.

>>58873341
It is right. There is more than one cause of inflation. Government deficit spending is absolutely one cause. Basically a way of taxing the population without increasing taxes.

>>58871410
exactly.

I'm laughing at these morons who keep calling it 'money' and not 'currency'. It tells me all I need to know about them not having understood what money is beyond just "hurr durr money is a concept, anything can be money" and not even asking "o wait, if money is just an idea then why do the markets (which are just human beings) constantly keep coming back to precious metals for use as money?".

These people have yet to even get their head around the concept that we don't even live in money based society, but a debt based system, each currency unit that they hold is just there to extinguish the existing debt, it will be stolen in value from you via inflation because those who get the loans first get the first benefit of the purchase of goods and services, with everyone else left with the higher prices left behind the injection of the currency via loans and mortgages.

These people don't even understand that the interest on all loans created means that the debt can never be made whole, the system relies on people constantly taking out debt, to cover the prior ponzi scheme participators on the level above them, so they can cash out and the people on the lower level are left with the debt and shitty hand. All it would take is a significant amount of people to get together and not take out loans for the system to collapse, it would take a small amount of people to just inject their savings and capital into the market to purchase gold and silver physically to expose that there is more currency out there than there is goods and services and this might trigger the phsychological phenomenon of hyperinflation where the masses, upon realising the inflationary theft will never end, start to deploy their earnings and savings immediately to prevent the inflationary theft of their labour.

You can learn all these concepts if you actually have an interest in what money is, but these clowns never even try to study money.

>>58873293
>>58873367
Seethe.

>>58871255
>inb4 Musk found dead self-inflicted wounds

>>58871410
You know what makes me laugh in despair at the futility of the human race? It's when these dummies say that deflation is bad for the economy. They have no idea what inflation even is, they have no idea that the dictionary definition of it actually described currency inflation and not inflating a fucking balloon and that's how much smarter and educated people were a hundred years ago compared to their dumbed down mobile touchscreen having chimp ass is.

These people cannot even fathom the concept that if inflation steals the value of your currency and pools value to those closest to the currency printer (digital or physical) in which they can get loans and purchase goods and services before you, then deflation is the opposite. In which the value of your currency or money rises so you actually have more purchasing power.

These clowns who know nothing about money actually think that if you have deflation then you go into a death spiral of people saving their money infinitely until no one buys anything because the next day their money has gone to the moon like they keep saying crypto will do. These people are so fucking stupid that they think people won't spend their money when it gains in value, they actually argue for the billionaire and trillionaire class of people to be able to steal from you via inflation, than to give the working class family more value for their money via deflation because that's what a functioning economy does, give you deflation which means price cuts across the board for goods and services as they become more efficient and streamlined businesses.

These moronic morons actually think that if the value of gold goes up, that you can't divide the gold into smaller units like they say they can divide their cuckcoin into infinite super satoshi's. These people are so stupid they can't even understand that you can divide the value of gold amongst other metals in terms of ratios.

>>58873394
This anon knows money. Money literally follows the same laws of thermodynamics, you can't create something out of nothing. When you work from that principle, the entire system is laid bare to you because you understand it's a ponzi scheme.

I just know this thread is going to die because there's actually two or three anons here who actually understand money. Anyone who doesn't understand money always gets mad asshurt over having money explained to them.

>>58873394
Government spending is one part of the equation. It is not the only factor at all. And increased spending won't always always increase inflation. Nor will spending cuts always decrease it.

>>58871280

>>58873394
>If you make more money, you dilute the value of existing money

I really do not comprehend how people do not simply get this.

>>58873943
what happens to the price of bread if we invent a way to make it using half the amount of resources?

>>58871255
Red pill - everybody hates Elon because he doesn’t do what they would do if they were Elon, which is lust for power and greed. So they can’t understand him on even a basic level and seethe inside eachother.

Meanwhile he’s literally saving the world from global warming and the left at the same time.

Inb4

>>58873599
>pick the specific car that makes the silver value match.

Why not use real data and average price of 2 cars with equal consumer ratings.

I suppose the consumer has changed some so the rating system won’t be perfect. But it’s still better then just straight up forming your own opinion in order to shill silver.

>>58873599
Yes you can create something out of nothing, it’s called debt expansion through fractional reserve banking.

You get all your stuff up front that you never deserved, and then you work for it.

>>58874085
He can’t into this type of logic

What level of IQ do you think it takes to think that up on your own?

My estimate is 130

>>58873505
Yes people will soon need to realize that Communists are the great problem humanity must solve. The whole DEI thing isn’t going away on its own and these people cannot be negotiated or reasoned with. They are a relentless evil.

>>58874224
Bugs or bread

It’s your choice anon.

>>58871255
The biggest welfare queen in the world advocating to stop wasteful spending is peak irony. Now that he amassed all this wealth it'd be a shame if it all was inflated away, huh. What a coincidence he's a full on Trumpkin now.

>>58874192
>Meanwhile he’s literally saving the world from global warming and the left at the same time.
he's a dopey trust fund brat who talks like a moron and has constant 'ideas' that are so basic and asinine it's astonishing

>>58871255
If that was true running public budget surpluses would 100% create deflation and falling prices with just more taxes

>>58873568
>Government deficit spending is absolutely one cause. Basically a way of taxing the population without increasing taxes.
Government can keep spending more without creating "deficits", they just have to pay themselves more and you don't need taxes for that necessarily.

>>58873394
>Government spending *IS* the cause, because the government spends in excess of their take in taxes and makes up the difference with new money
Ya but you could say that about any spending. Every dollar you spend bids up prices... you could assume the private sector can't spend more than it "earns" but that's wrong... unless government enforces some system like the gold standard finance syndicates can come up with schemes to keep credit flowing. Government taking more money from people can make the price level go down but people don't want to get poorer that way to enrich others.

>Inflation is pretty much a regressive tax on all extant USD, which affects those that store their wealth in USD (ie: Your bank accounts, the cash in your wallet, your paycheck) more than those that store their wealth in assets (Commodities, stocks, etc).
If that was true dollars becoming more valuable would be progressive redistribution... try to make the case for that. The rich own stuff because they're rich and the poor don't, they can adapt to any galaxy brain policies you come up with easily... if you make dollars extremely valuable poor people will just get less and less of them and spend everything they have till their broke and lost any little gains they got.

>If we expressed inflation as a tax on USD, people would be getting their pitchforks and torches out, but by doing it through the back door, it goes largely unnoticed.
You can easily change tax rates but government can't set inflation rates in same way obviously. Trying to target inflation rates ends up failing.

>>58874406
Let me tell you all the ways you are wrong.
>running public budget surpluses would 100% create deflation
Gross oversimplification which ignores countless other factors in play.
>Government can keep spending more without creating "deficits", they just have to pay themselves more
Pay themselves more from... where exactly? Either you're paying it from taxes, or you're creating it.
>Every dollar you spend bids up prices.
Supply and demand is not the same thing as diluting the value of the entire currency, false equivalence.
>schemes to keep credit flowing
Where does the credit ultimately come from? A central bank.
>The rich own stuff because they're rich and the poor don't
>If that was true dollars becoming more valuable would be progressive redistribution
Yes, a deflationary environment effectively makes you wealthier the longer you hold onto your currency, though that rate of return probably won't be as high as it'd be elsewhere anyway.
>government can't set inflation rates in same way obviously. Trying to target inflation rates ends up failing.
The relationship between increasing money supply and inflation is extremely well understood. Here's a plot of M2 money supply versus inflation for you. Remember this plot the next time a politician or economist tries to convince you that inflation isn't their fault.

>>58871255
they don't print money
they print bonds, which is actually worse, because it has a compounding effect on borrowing

>>58871410
I should because I know how the eurodollar system works
apologize to me right now

>>58871414
>We just stop
you don't understand how bonds are priced lol
if you stop the interest payments, the bond is considered defaulted on, which is priced at ZERO
all your pension funds would go into instant bankruptcy
your treasury will NEVER go down that route, you may talk about "hurr we just don't pay" but nobody will ever do that
they are just going to clock rates at negative if push comes to shove

>>58871918
>Shoot the bankers in the head
ok
>>58871918
>nationalize the banks
ok
>>58871918
>seize their assets
ok
>>58871918
>assert all prior debts no longer exist
and there goes your bonds to 0 and all your pension funds as well

wanna try again?

>>58871255
>To solve inflation, reduce wasteful government spending. Your tax dollars should be spent well, not poorly
That's what most European countries + the UK have been trying to do for the last 15 years. Not only inflation is worse than ever but the reduced government spending significantly degraded the quality of free health care, education, infrastructure, justice system, regulatory bodies that would usually heavily punish companies that fucked over consumers and monopolies/oligopolies among other things. But no it's all the immigrants' fault.
t. Greek

>>58874444
You can't say running deficits is inflationary and than not explain what surpluses do... they have to be deflationary or you can be handwavy over deficits

>Pay themselves more from... where exactly? Either you're paying it from taxes, or you're creating it.
Obviously fees and such... but that wasn't my point. Not running deficits or accounting things differently doesn't mean much, it's the spending itself. If America made China pay for it's federal spending through higher tariffs or something things could keep getting more expensive.

>Supply and demand is not the same thing as diluting the value of the entire currency, false equivalence.
The value of any currency only has to do with supply and demand.

>Where does the credit ultimately come from? A central bank.
Point is you don't need central banks. Commercial banks could do the job themselves. If the Federal Reserve was shut down there's no reason to believe every commercial bank in America would collapse or something, they could work together and other branches of government would "help" them

>The relationship between increasing money supply and inflation is extremely well understood. Here's a plot of M2 money supply versus inflation for you. Remember this plot the next time a politician or economist tries to convince you that inflation isn't their fault.
That charts schizoid, money supply growth rapidly increased and declined and never recovered after 1980s... ya sure

If you understood how much of a paypig you are for a massive welfare cattle tax farm, as well as rich bureaucrat/lobbyist/affiliate grifting scheme, you would be furious

you could cut federal spending by 80% and not miss a single hitch on vital functions. It's the only "business" in the country that has never had a budget reduction, only increases.

>why don't they stop printing?
Because oligarchs are parasites, they do not run the world, they just grift. The true organizing principal of the human superorganism is the positive externality of voluntary exchange, not some statist fairytale "social contract". We autonomously organize into the superorganism that envelops the globe like a planetary slime mold because voluntary exchange is positive sum.

Bottom up, emergent, organic
Not top down, prescribed, hierarchical

State can only acquire resources via one of three means:
Coercion: "I am Lord, give me resources or I will murder you"
Persuasion: "I am Lord, give me resources because I take credit for your accomplishments!"
Deception: "I am Lord, do not concern yourself with the functioning of Money! It is very necessary for me to engage in rank counterfeiting or the world will stop spinning!!"

Oligarchs have been driven to the last exploit by the superorganism's relentless march towards efficiency. The oligarchs now parasite via manipulation of the price signal of money, but this is grotesquely inefficient, the superorganism will not abide, it has allowed the State to exist until now because it needed a trusted third party to operate money, but thanks to Satoshi it no longer needs a TTP for money. It demands a high fidelity incorruptible price signal of money and now it shall have it.
>They'll ban it!
State like Church HAD (past tense) a function for the superorganism, a function obsolesced by technology, the superorganism will now cannibalize State just as it did to Church after Johannes provided a superior means of meme propagation. Capital flight to trustless money accelerates this process by hastening BTC's ascension to Sole Denominator.

State is subordinate not superordinate to the superorganism. Oligarchs hated the printing press, universal literacy, mass media, internet etc etc as well, didn't matter in the slightest as the superorganism is supreme.

>>58871410
>statist slavemind thinks how money is counterfeited determines the effect of monetary expansion
Dull.

>>58874507
>It's the only "business" in the country that has never had a budget reduction, only increases.
Literally every big sector grows in same way? The entire argument of lolberts is the private sector gets BIGGER returns and if you had more money to throw at investments you could get even more in retirement

>>58874292
>attack the person who understands it because they lived it just because you can’t become a billionaire yourself.
>tfw when you will never have a billion dollars. Just kill me now.

>>58871488
>what matters is the return on that investment
Checked, correct however, manipulation of the price signal of money is always grotesquely negative sum and always leads to currency failure, for if a unit of account no longer provides an accurate price signal of money it will cease to be used for this function

>>58871505
>it won't be fine for welfare queens and welfare queens and welfare queens either!
Good.
>depression like never seen before
You misspelled "10,000 year hyperborean golden age"

>>58874498
MV = PY; Go google it and start reading, you clearly understand nothing.

>>58874507
Why are old people investing in government and stealing from the children? Especially when they already have first move advantage anyways in the form of quicker access to land ownership

>>58874510
It’s a black hole retard. Not a monk

>>58872147
Sidewalks are paid for by the property owner, they have public easements, but both construction and maintenance are the property owners responsibility

>>58872147
This is why you aren’t a billionaire

>>58874085
The market price of bread falls, this is not deflation (increase in the value of money) any more than the decrease in the market price of compute is deflation

>>58874498
>You can't say running deficits is inflationary and than not explain what surpluses do
Deficits are inflationary because they increase money stock, surpluses would be deflationary IFF they were used to constrict the money supply

>>58874567
I know the equation it's just whatever numbers you're using aren't right. However you're measuring money is wrong and it grew much more. I still don't get what you're implying. Are you praising the Fed for controlling money?

>>58874575
>Why are old people investing in government and stealing from the children? Especially when they already have first move advantage anyways in the form of quicker access to land ownership
The government does subsidize children in various ways. Ask you're hoe momma about the payments she probably got for you. Anyways the idea was when you get old you could stop working and retire and government would make that possible. You really don't want more 80 year olds competing on the labour market probably and just want them to somehow not have to work but not depend on government handouts but that's not going to happen

>>58874634
>surpluses would be deflationary IFF they were used to constrict the money supply
You can't "use" a surplus or it's not a surplus, it does contract the supply of money that people could use to spend otherwise

Its easier to understand if you simply realize that dollars = government debt. A dollar is a zero duration treasury.

So government debt = money printing, just with different financing duration.

Fiat isn't backed by anything, so its value is purely its ratio to available goods and services. If the government prints money to build a bridge which enables a factory to built or something to increase abundance of goods, then it isn't necessarily inflationary even though money was printed. But if the government just hands out money then this is directly inflationary.

So yeah it depends how much the government is in the hole regarding taxes vs spending, but it also matters how the money is spent. Entitlements for example are far more inflationary than instruction spending which could even be deflationary.

Because we've been in a recession since 2008. It's literally too late for money printing to stop, it would collapse the economy entirely from the lack of demand.

There's no longer an option for a soft-reset. 2017 was the last chance but stonewalling Trump his entire term and then stealing the election with a fake pandemic (and associated money printing) was the final straw. We are now LOCKED IN to a looming complete economic collapse and possibly a collapse of the federal government entirely (state governments will survive and either adopt crypto or gold and silver, the only constitutionally allowed forms of money). (They will attempt paper money but nobody will trust it and it'll be worthless immediately.)

Ron Paul 2012 could have stopped this but now it's too late. If you don't hold any crypto yet, ANY AT ALL, you're a fool. Even dogecoin will retain value more than shitty federal reserve notes.

>>58874659
ok doomer

@58874668
I do NOT give permission for neoliberal KEYNESIANS to reply to me.

>>58871255
>why don't they stop printing more?
cool it with the antisemitism

>>58874678
lurk 2 years before posting faggot

>>58874678

>>58874691
>>58874701
I refuse to give keynesians and neoliberals the satisfaction of a (You), retards.

>>58874706
If they rustle your jimmies that much then why engage them at all?

>>58874712
I had already skimmed his posts above in the thread to see if he was worth responding to, and he wasn't. So there was a bit of sunk cost there, and then it's good to let lurkers know that it's okay to disregard neoliberal keynesians by example.

>>58871255
>Reduce "wasteful" (necessary slack) government spending
>Inflation continues to go up because the money printers keep running in order to keep over-leveraged investment markets from collapsing because that's the real reason that they were spun up in the first place
Hm.

>>58871285
except hes doing useful shit unlike 99% of government contracts

>>58873529
No it isn't you fucking kunckle dragging ideologue.
Inflation comes from the PRINTING OF MONEY.

>>58871488
>what matters is the return on that investment.
Government has a double digit negative ROI.

>>58874641
Yes, exactly, you could burn the surplus to constrict the money supply. IFF surpluses were used like this (obviously they never are) they would be deflationary

>>58874647
>Fiat isn't backed by anything, so its value is purely its ratio to available goods and services.
Yes.
> If the government prints money to build a bridge which enables a factory to built or something to increase abundance of goods, then it isn't necessarily inflationary even though money was printed
No. It will still inflate asset prices, inflation = consumer price increases is a clever bit of oligarchical propaganda but is self-evidently false, inflation (monetary expansion) = price increases (decreased value of money).

>>58875004
Depends, how do you want to measure that? Because short of certain presidents shooting tax receipts in the foot during their presidency, they usually go up, which looks like positive ROI to me

>>58874582
>>58874603
you guys are right

He says it so 99.9 % of dumb get it. He wants people to hate govt not him. He knows it all.
Alslo one that will pump catcoin like doge. Green dildos comin

>>58873341
If a government spent within its means then it would not cause inflation as there wouldn't be a change to the money supply, and there could even be deflation. But no modern government does this. A modern government will spend money it doesn't have (deficit spending), and will issue bonds that are bought up by the central bank which prints money (with authority from the government to do so) to buy them. So no, government spending means money printing which means inflation.

>>58872823
>daytrader
>at work

This is wrong. inflation came from cheap corporate loans that had little ramifications because there wasn't anywhere to spend that money for consumers.

>>58874823
Making overpriced EVs is not useful. I want a cheap chinese one

>>58876354
Let me guess, you think giving people 1000 bucks during covid caused all the inflation that happened since
Blue pilled faggot

>>58877034
Let me guess, you think giving people 1000 bucks during covid caused no inflation at all

>>58873565
notice how almost nobody has replied to you. These retards are too invested into shitcoins, meme stocks, and other cancerous "assets".

>>58871255
Most Americans, including you people here, are extremely stupid. They have never been to another country with an efficient government. We have a very expensive very stupid government. Most of the money is wasted. Really, why are you even paying taxes?

>>58876354
>>58877034
>>58877367
Both you girls are retarded. We have a debt based monetary system. Nothing changes until we change this.

>>58877426
Yet the economy of said efficient government is relying on American imperialism

>>58877437
Well that's the whole thing innit? Which banking system will control you?

What happened to this board? Crypto was in the doldrums last year and there was still a good amount of activity. Now it's totally dead. There are like 3 guys passing a copium pipe back and forth and one guy sad because he's starting to realize Russia will never adapt ETH as legal tender.

Actually, activity seems down all across 4chan, except maybe /pol/ and the troon boards. What's happening?

>>58871255
interesting how he doesn't talk about the root cause of overspending which is usury

>>58872184
money printing is done by private banks not by government spending
>>58872440
Who do the private banks print their money for and at the request of?
>>58872541
>lenders????
>>58873163
>The largest lender is the government.

Jews, you gotta love Jews

>>58877545
Basically, trannie jannies made this unusable.

>>58877545
>>58877557
This. Overbearing jannies destroyed the board.

>>58877557
They did that to /r9k/ baka, you used to get funny and relateable greentexts, now you basically just get threads where incels tell each other to goon to trannies

>>58871255
It's not true.

Money comes into existence when the Federal Reserve gives loans to banks.
Banks will then give the loans out to people, to make money themselves.
When FED interest rates are low, more money is generated because the banks really want those loans.
When the FED interest rates are high, the money printer is effectively turned off, because the banks don't want those loans quite as much.
The connection between the FED and banks, is why the first thing to inflate is housing. Loans are largely used to buy property.

Inflation occurs because everyone that is selling is trying to sell for as much as they can get away with charging. They can get away with charging more, because more money exists and people are actually paying the higher prices, even if they don't like to.

>>58877576
inflation is caused by some old geezer at the federal reserve opening a program called moneyprinting.exe . He types in a number and presses enter and the amount appears in the federal reserves account. A little clippy style mascot appears, except its a little dollar, asking if he needs any help.

>>58877607
this. jews conjured a whole new autistic definition for a previously very easy to understand word

>>58871255
>I don't invest in fiat USD. It's not backed by anything.
But it is, it's called the MIC.

>with kikes you win.

>>58873565
You're absolutely right, but bear in mind that nobody is ever going to vote to 'endure hard times' or set a standard of hard work for themselves. Silent Gen got drafted against their will, boomers didn't vote for personal responsibility and neither did Gen X. Why would the younger gens vote it in so that future generations can live well while we wallow in the economic downswing?

People are much more likely to vote straight-up marxists into power at this point because the only answer anyone has is that they need to suffer for the bad fiscal decisions of generations past. Why wouldn't they just vote in someone who abolishes private property to give them everything they think they want in the short term? Sure, it'll turn into a shithole inside of a decade or two when they run out of other peoples' money to spend, but that'll be the next generation's problem, same as the boomers' fiscal policy is threatening to become ours.

There's a reason people don't vote for austerity.

>>58871663
right? i've had the sinking feeling for a while that high rates are just kicking the can down the road and once rates drop the reality of what the high rates have created (i.e. everyone has 5.25-5.5% more money) will either cause hyperinflation or a recession

>>58871280
>richest man in the world has a child's comprehension of economics
Gigacope

>>58874647
Fiat is fine if you aren't paying interest to a private corporation masquerading as the "federal reserve system". Fiat is also fine as long as you actually allow the bust part of the cycle to happen and for companies to bankrupt themselves instead of providing corporate bailouts and bank bail-ins. There also would not be a boom-bust cycle if we used fiat responsibly and properly regulated the financial infrastructure so that parasitic growth bubbles were less likely to occur.

>>58877545
X has siphoned a lot of the user base away from this website. People unironically have more free speech inside Elon's bot circus than on here these days.

>>58878159
See the funny thing is that the same thing happened to dumblr, and now that platform is better than ever because twitter only siphoned off the pants-on-head retarded bluehairs

After Elon bought it and made it X they tried to come back and got told to gtfo by anyone they tried to interact with. At least /biz/ isn't overrun with bots like /pol/

>>58877805
History has proven that you dont need to be smart to be rich.

>>58877755
Bukele is one example of a country returning to the Path.

Could America do the same without a huge civil war? Unlikely.

>>58877977
>fiat is fine as long as it’s not used for its intended purpose

>>58878418

In order to become rich you have to be top 30% intelligence. A fool and his money are soon parted, there's simply no other way to scale to that level without having an above average IQ.

Inflation is caused by jews

>>58873580
This retarded book ADVOCATES central banking and money printing.
The Austrian economists were right.
Kill yourself

>>58880914
It advocates for state banking, which is slightly less retarded than a fiat standard. The book makes some solid arguments against central banking and a debt-based monetary system, but its suggested alternative of state banking is inferior to a bitcoin standard.

>>58871255
because they want more interest to be paid.
that is why the debt is never paid off.
if it was paid off, interest payments would cease

>>58871255
Because politicians like buying votes and expanding the size of the state because it increases their power.

>is this true?
>why don't they stop printing more?

of course it is true. gubberment want to spend as much as possible on nogs gibs me dat to look woke af. on the other side they are suppressing the natives with every UNdemocratic possible option incl imprissonment, look at england!
>hail to the great austrian painter he predicted all that

>>58871410
The basic mechanisms of how our monetary system works isn’t complicating, sure the fine details of how Jews parasite can be quite elaborate, but the overall picture is quite clear and it’s not fair for you to say that only (((experts))) are allowed to have any say on economic matters.