/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>58433851
Nobody gives a fuck about the jewish rigged stock market anymore and there's a containment thread for it.

>>58433851
>What happened to the good old days of investing money into the stock market?

why are we investing in the stock market again?

>>58434233
>rigged stock market
>"buy my coin, CumFart, you're getting in on the ground floor"!
>whaddya Coinbase froze all my withdraws, I thought I was gonna be a gorillionaire!

>>58433851
>the original biz and finance topic; the stock market.
The board was created specifically as a containment for crypto threads. Broadening it to cover all of finance was just incidental.

>>58434233
lol, so ur not mad that u got played. Ur mad that you couldn’t rig the market. What a loser

>>58434294
Why are u investing in crypto? Same reasons. U wanna make money. 99% of people holding BTC or ETH or anything else don’t give a rats ass about white papers or proof of work or the functionality. They just want monnnney.

>>58434299
lol yeah. Pre much most of the users here

>>58434305
Booooooring. I wouldn’t mind if some u people on the board were actually rich as a result. But yall are poor

>>58433851
I think the problem is the knowledge level of the board and required capital. To really make money in the stock market you need a decent amount of money to play with, and there are different trading styles to learn. The whole time you're doing it you have to be thinking "would I be making the same or better return just dumping into the S&P500?". Most retail traders never surpass this bar. People here are drawn to crypto because they think they'll put $1000 into $APU or whatever and be millionaires.

I think most people on /biz/ should be discussing ways to raise their available capital through businesses etc. That said given that most are drawn to crypto as a "quick in and quick out" in terms of getting rich, pic related is a halfway decent book about a guy who played the markets. The Market Wizards series is cool too. He sells a ridiculously terrible overpriced course but Anton Kreil's general perspective is fairly legitimate. I'm not a professional a trader, I've just worked close enough to capital market stuff to see some of it. Really the only pro traders that exist anymore are in hedge funds.

I'd like to see threads on dropshipping, print on demand, flipping etc. and other ways of making money. Crypto gambling is gay and boring and most people are never going to make it with crypto.

>>58434318
Faggot I've still got a small amount of my folio in stocks from when I was new and therefore still wasting my time with them.
Never got played just never saw the appeal with 10% gains in a year when I can sometimes make 30% in one night.
I also own PMs so suck it, don't waste your time with stocks unless you enjoy being bored.

>>58434325
I can promise u that for the layman, stocks are 100% the only way to get rich compared to crypto.
Crypto bros falling in love with the potential of 100x their money is like a woman going back to an abusive bf because she still wants to give him another chance lol.

I know this because thru due diligence and simple risk management strategies(and a teeny bit of luck admittedly), I’ve become filthy rich via just options and day trading.

If you want to actually contribute to the planet AND make money, ur right though. Businesses are the best ways to go about that. I could make a billion in the stock market and I haven’t changed anyone’s life but myself. But if I have a multi million dollar business like a restaurant, not only do I get rich but I hire employees and improve their lives, I serve customers and fill their bellies and I pay suppliers for ingredients. Many people benefit.

But alas, im a greedy pig and the stock market is the simplest way to get consistently profitable.

the pro / good retail traders that do exist don’t go around shilling their course. Because if you knew a tried and true method to make money, you know what you wouldn’t do? Turn around sell it on YouTube for 80.99 a month lmaoo.

>>58434327
10% gain on millions is better than 30% gain on a smaller couple thousand dollars.

Truth of the matter is if you have a truly sizeable port, you’d never put it into alts. Look at most crypto traders who have large accounts. They inevitably put it all into the biggest coins like BTC and whatnot.

Options trading is fun asf bro

>>58433851
Wow

>>58434318
>Why are u investing in crypto? Same reasons. U wanna make money. 99% of people holding BTC or ETH or anything else don’t give a rats ass about white papers or proof of work or the functionality. They just want monnnney.

I chose crypto, specifically smartcontracts and consequently chainlink, because the technology moved me and I want to see that very same tech integrated into my life.

We are investors meaning we want to make money so that's a moot point to bring up. Why the stock market specifically?

If you want to be sensible, you dump all your shit into an index fund and leave it for 20 years. If you're a retard that wants to get rich quick, you buy whatever shitcoins you think will moon.

"Playing the stock market" is this weird middle ground for people who think they're the next genius investor who will make millions. Truth is, you aren't going to beat the system. You are going to get fucked. And you will get fucked when you are doing your best, when you are the most confident.

In summary, if you're smart and knowledgeable enough to really do well in the stock market, you already know how bad of an idea it is to try.

>>58434404
What is it about smart contracts functionality that you specifically find useful? Same with chain link.

I bring up the stock market because I’ve seen more make a meaningful amount of money thru that instead of crypto.

>>58433851
because everybody can get into crypto and can actually make money quicker? Like I get to buy some ssnc on launch day and sell before it drops again to make some profit and they buy in again.
I could do that with stock but what for? Not work the hassle. We have memes too.

>>58434361
>stocks are 100% the only way to get rich compared to crypto.
Yeah right, maybe in 20 years.

>>58434361
>Truth of the matter is if you have a truly sizeable port
Even is it sounds the same crypto is entirely different, and we prefer it just for the very same reasons you are explaining. Just stfu.

>>58434327
>never saw the appeal with 10% gains in a year when I can sometimes make 30% in one night.
>>58434361
>10% gain on millions is better than 30% gain on a smaller couple thousand dollars.

I think faggot 1 was talking about 30% of this whole net-worth. Otherwise It wouldn't make sense.

That said faggot 2 seems to know his shit.

Both are faggots in the end tough.

>>58434415
>What is it about smart contracts functionality that you specifically find useful? Same with chain link.

Smart contracts are code that, once deployed, can't be altered and runs as intended. If you audit a smart contract, you'll know what it does and what it can't do and, if it's written properly, you can be assured you won't get screwed over by a developer suddenly changing his mind.

This is important because major Web2 companies inject their politics and break their own Terms of Use all the time. Youtube would demonetize channels despite their videos abiding to the ToS. Robinhood locked retail investors out of trading GME. The whole motivation beyond the cryptospace (specifically people who want to build lifechanging tech) is that they want to create an environment that is fair for all.

Chainlink's role is that the Chainlink network is the internet, the TCP/IP version for blockchains. Easy investment motivation right there.

>>58434444
I'll I got from this is that chainlink is a pathetic excuse for crypto. I'm sorry but not sorry. If pajeets weren't being paid to shill that shit so hard maybe I would be more lenient. but whatevs....

>>58434472
at least email verification keeps them out.

>>58434475
cant wrap myself around the fact that they cant afford a 20$ pass.

>>58434422
Took me 4 years to get to where I am rn, and I can guarantee I’m richer than every single crypto bro in this thread and prolly on the board.

>>58434425
Nah, if I started over with what I know now I’d get to 100K from 10-20K in a year and a half max. And this is consistently possible, not relying on some bull market or shit coins to magically skyrocket.

>>58434426
Overall it comes down to consistency. Crypto markets tend to move extremely irrationally. And im talking about the big market caps. When it comes to movement of small cap coins, the movement might as well be noise generated because no one can read it.

>>58434444
Gme was a black swan event, so don’t use that as a point lmfao. Things like that happen once every 10 years.

But we’re viewing crypto from different perspectives. I’m talking about making money off of it, which is the goal of majority of investors, while you’re talking about actual utility. So I’m not going to argue with you on that.

But that immutability and inability to have anything changed is bad as well, no? What if someone uploads revenge porn or CP or malicious code, that can’t be removed or deleted now right? Granted I could be wrong, I don’t understand smart contacts that well.

>>58434472
The issue is perspective. Some people believe in chain link cuz of utility but like I said before, a large majority of ppl simply don’t give a shit.

>>58434361
I'm not an 'accredited high net worth investor', sure. But I will hit 6 figures (crypto only) this year, after just 2 years
of being into crypto seriously. I think I'm doing alright. I grew up very poor so if BTC can get me to this point, I am obviously going to be biased towards it over stocks, which I only see as a different basket to put money in. Stocks are good if you're already rich like you said. If I'd stuck to stocks I'd be way behind where I'm at now. And on top of this, I don't just have crypto either. Like I said I've got some stocks and some pm. Only the BTC was really life changing. PM is great because it basically has no volatility and is fun to hold, stocks will be a bit better than a savings account I suppose. Just not very exciting.

>>58434361
Oh and no, Crypto whales rotate out of BTC into alts after the peak of the BTC cycle. Hence why alt season makes a lot of people make a lot of money.
Options trading is degenerate but I'm glad you're having fun bro.

>>58434493
Fair enough. I’d just say that if you get into 6-7 figures, get out of crypto. The volatility and risk is too much if you’ve got a larger net work. Waking up one day and seeing your account be down -20% out of nowhere because of completely unforeseen events is kinda shit if you’re a mil balls deep in crypto.

Also, what is PM?

>>58434497
No way of knowing when the cycle will peak, you know. If you did, you could trade crypto futures and suck up millions in hours longing and shorting BTC.

The only way to make real money in stocks is with options and that requires a shitload of learning to get gud at which gatekeeps most beyond simple gambling. Otherwise it's just a slow grind where you lose more money the more trades you make because of taxes. If you're playing with big boy money then the stock market is fine because you can just set it and forget it on a single stock or maybe a handful of them or you can buy indexes. The only viable alternative style is chasing memes like gamestop which pop cyclically due to options and swaps fuckery but then you're stuck waiting for a while inbetween rips to cash out for the market to break containment and the price to hit the cum zone again. With all that said I'm long as fuck on GME because it's due to cum soon and it's too cheap right now.

>>58434514
Bro you are a degenerate lmao

GME ain’t taking off any time soon. It’s a brick and mortar chain with not much else goin for it aside from selling collectibles, Knick knacks and consoles. It’s very much at its actual value as of now.

And ur right, you need to learn a lot to make good money. But I’d much rather sit at home learning and slowly making money instead of working a retail job or anything like that.

Fast gains are possible too, I’ve made more in a single trade than some people in this thread have in their entire port.

I’m playing with big boy money now too, same strategies same risk management. Free money.

>>58434481
>Gme was a black swan event, so don’t use that as a point lmfao. Things like that happen once every 10 years.

You're not understanding why I'm bringing it up. The fact that Robinhood was allowed to cut the cord on retail investors while letting institutional investors is a clear sign of misuse of power with no one to hold them accountable. This wouldn't be achievable in the blockchain field. In fact, we have had a number of instances where centralized exchanges like Coinbase or Binance block people from making transactions when the BTC goes through a massive dump and yet their Decentralized counterparts like Uniswap operate without a hitch.

This reliability and assurance is so highly desired that even banks are coming on board but with their own blockchains.

>>58434481
>But that immutability and inability to have anything changed is bad as well, no? What if someone uploads revenge porn or CP or malicious code, that can’t be removed or deleted now right? Granted I could be wrong, I don’t understand smart contacts that well.

There will be problems that arise, but ultimately it's a paradigm that is simply superior. Like the difference between accessing information from Cable versus the internet. The latter is so much more versatile and capable that no one cares about the pitfalls.

If you want to make money, it's a no brainer to follow emerging technologies and blockchain tech has persisted for over a decade with no signs of stopping. You should look into the value of the utility and see how you can invest in it.

>>58434508
Absolutey anon as much as I have no experience with money (had literally zero savings until 2 years ago. Not even a dollar), I do have a plan to rotate large amounts of my portfolio into stocks and real estate. Nothing fancy, maybe some index fund shit or something. Can't be having it locked up as crypto forever.
PM is precious metal btw, very stable.

>>58433851
this is a shitcoin gambling board now grandad get with the times.

>>58434318
>I wouldn’t mind if some u people on the board were actually rich as a result. But yall are poor
no one that has /madeit/ left biz. your logic is flawed.

>>58434559
If we are to base arguments on extremely rare events, let’s talk about some that happened in crypto. When ETH had those massive DAO attacks on it as a result of the smart contract vulnerability’s, the community rolled it back. And now we have ETH and ETC.

So this argument about immutability isn’t so solid because this event proved it ain’t.
Whos to say similar rollbacks or issues won’t happen to chainlink?
But again, those are black swan events. Once in a lifetime things that just happen, so i won’t bother trying to bring those up as points.

What is concerning is that you have no answer the questions I put forth and just glossed over them. How is a system superior if it allows such terrible things? It can never be as widespread as you’d like to be so long as those issues are not worked on and acknowledged.

There’s also the issue of a scalability. If smart contracts and chain link are indeed the way of the future, then as it is now is fundamentally flawed.

So long as it is operated predominantly on ETH, it can never be adopted in a widespread manner. Crypto is such a niche corner of the entire finance community if you really think about it. And yet we already face issues with limitations on transaction times, variable gas fees due to demand which will only skyrocket if the world begins to use smart contracts and a few more.

Of course, I only have a surface level knowledge of it. But if someone like me can see problems with this stuff becoming the future, I’m sure more educated people could find even more problems.

>>58434617
Are u rich?

>>58434669
>What is concerning is that you have no answer the questions I put forth and just glossed over them. How is a system superior if it allows such terrible things? It can never be as widespread as you’d like to be so long as those issues are not worked on and acknowledged.

Well, I bring up the GME event because it's the most egregious example of the "powers that be" being biased against the average joe. You're missing the forest for the trees if you're calling it an extremely rare event. And if you want to be technical, yes, you can make "upgradeable contracts" to update contracts aka make them mutable.

But and realize the contracts still exist from the DAO hacks, the community chose to to move a greener field, choosing to move to a forked chain that rolled back the attacks. It's why we have two chains in the first place, where ETH is where the majority agreed the hacks were unfair and they should be undone and ETC were left with stragglers who felt the code is law. It bothers me that you're using one of the most significant events of blockchain history, where a community took it into their hands to right a massive wrong and restore faith in their space, to do a gotcha "contracts aren't immutable so why bring it up?". And then you have the audacity to complain that I'm not explaining why this tech is better than what we have now.

Be honest, do you think the BTC is a scam? Why do you think that it's valued at whatever the price is now as opposed to $500?

>>58434784
The reason why I ask is because this blockchain space has existed for 15 years now. The BTC has moved to its all time high recently, and now we have banks who already have their own blockchains and are now advancing to the next evolution of blockchain space with tokenizing their assets (aka NFTs).

Why are they pumping money into this space? Why are they doing so much R&D? Just because you don't understand the value of the tech doesn't mean other people don't already recognize it for what it's worth.

i loathe chainlink

>>58433851
BTC and Link are for the retards. I'm all in on low mcap utility tokens like DUA, NXRA, QAN, and Bonus for those easy gains.

>>58434422
Can I stash that shit in my Brillion smart wallet? If not, count me out of your shit bag.

>>58434444
Nice gets but you're fucking retarded.
You can't create actual apps using smart contracts. Most of these "dApps" rely heavily on web2 hosting services for some - most or all of their compute.

Web3 "gaming" being the worst offenders as the entire game is on a centralized server and everything you mentioned that shart contracts would solve still happens.

Why do you think there's never been a web3 charting app? Because smart contracts aren't real apps.

That's the ultimate fraud of web3 and once you understand it you'll see why this shit is going to zero.
Buy Bitcoin.

>>58434444
Chainlink is a permissioned hierarchical system, do you even know what that means?
It means every Chainlink node has an admin, Chainlink data feeds is just one node which all of de-fi uses to fetch data. One node controlled by one admin who decides which peers can join and present data, one admin who decides what data is presented in the first place.

The idiocy of anyone actually invested in Chainlink is beyond immeasurable.

>>58434444
Do you know what RPCs are? Do you know how much bandwidth ETH execution clients burn in a single day on pointless world state transitions? Do you know how much hardware is necessary to even run an execution client?

An RPC is a centralized entity for reading and broadcasting data to the Blockchain, an entity who CAN and WILL censor you when instructed to by the DOJ.

Every single RPC provider uses so much bandwidth and energy that they're impossible to conceal. RPCs will be the death of De-fi.

During the Tornado cash incident the biggest RPC on the market - infura - blocked all Tornado cash transactions, imagine what happens when the DOJ actually starts taking this shit seriously.

Not to mention OFAC compliant consensus nodes were also refusing to build or vote on blocks that had tornado cash transactions in them.

Only a complete maroon would believe Ethereum or anything similar could ever be the future of finance.

>>58435479
Agreed. All you’re left with are people who vehemently shill the lacklustre benefits that fool those who don’t know and better and pretend the cons don’t exist. When I asked “what happens if CP or revenge porn or personal details are uploaded to the so called immutable chain?” And their response was “oh it’s the future we gotta accept some stuff”

I always say this. The reason crypto bros are upset isn’t because the stock market made them lose money. It’s because they weren’t the ones doing the rigging.

>>58434361
>I’ve become filthy rich via just options and day trading
Not asking for super specifics, but how much capital did you start with and what approach/education did you use to learn about trading? Do you trade a balanced portfolio or did you have a particular niche, like certain types of options?

>>58434294
>why are we investing in the stock market again?
because my tesla is doing a lil sumtin

>>58435719
U can ask away, I used to safeguard everything but I’ve realized people just don’t give a shit. I could give them the entire process and they still don’t do any thing about it.

Start on YouTube. Learn options. Even if different videos use the exact same titles, still watch them. Different people give different sauce. STAY AWAY from any discords or telegram that are paid. They are assand a cash grab.

I never read any books and I’m fine. The modern markets are 50x more complex than the markets of the previous decades. Especially before 2000s.

>>58435803
how much did u start with?
how much is enough to start with today?

>>58436097
dude you're gonna lose all your money on options
just get a better job with more income

>>58435803
Thanks, I have a decent amount of education in capital markets but not as much insight into people who actually trade and got rich from it (unless they work for a bank and get commission on top of a base salary), as they're pretty rare, which is why I asked you those questions. Since you're okay with questions, what's your personal AUM (or what was it at your peak) and what did you use to fund your initial trading? Were you in a high paid industry before or did you bootstrap yourself with trading only?

>>58435468
Yes, there's going to be some Web2 services integrated. That's the natural evolution of the internet. What are you arguing here?

>>58435472
You're not refuting what I'm saying about Link

>>58435479

What you're talking about doesn't at refute the value of smartcontracts, you're merely bringing up adversaries to the field. Banks have their own private blockchains compliant with the law and are using smart contracts and are waiting on legal clarity to proceed further. Legal compliance doesn't mean smart contracts are useless. In you're point about Tornado Cash speaks the exact opposite. Smart contracts are so powerful that the government would undermine their law to arrest developers and force RPC-URL providers to comply. And the fact that you can still interact with the Tornado cash contract still speaks volumes to the reliability of contracts. As long the ETH blcokchain is up ,you can interact with it.

It's fine to point out the obstacles and hurdles of this space, but you guys need to hear yourselves speak or read over your points several times. You're supporting the resiliency and value of smart contracts with these points.

>>58433851
Why would I invest or talk about stock market when the hot shit is obviously crypto, we can do 20x in just a matter of a few days, lmao, look at whats happened with memecoins like shiba or gaming coins like super

>>58436097
I got lucky. I did outreach at a young age and found a few clients who were willing to give me capital to trade with.
My winrate per year is around 95% and my yearly gain is between 40-70%, so even in the best case scenario starting at 1K it would take you 5 years of back to back 70% gain to hit 15K. You need money to make money, sadly.

If you’re not making 6 figures, investing isn’t ur game. You need a surplus.

>>58436106
Most people do. That’s why for 99% of people, you should just buy VTI or SPY and dca

>>58436175
I never worked for an institution, went straight to working private.
The biggest disconnnect is what the word trader means. Someone who simply puts aside a few hundred dollars a month and buys SPY or VOO is considered a trader.
Someone who spends hours poring over financial documents, news reports, performs chart analysis and understands trader psychology is also considered a trader.

My personal AUM? I’m not able to disclose all of my clients info, but the AUM of my first 3 clients sums up to around 42m. I have 5 clients in total.

I hardly traded on my own. Like mentioned above, after learning how to trade and solidifying my strategy by testing it live for half a year I immediately did outreach to business owners local in the area. A lot of em told me to fuck off but one guy was crazy enough to go thru with it. And here we are today.

I was 18 when I started learning how to trade, 19 and a half when I decide to do outreach

>>58433851
You must be new here.
>>58434305
Came here to post this, thanks fren

>>58433851
nah people just realized that following the trends and listening to the communities that are putting their money into big things is far more profitable than investing in whatever JP morgan thinks it will give him more money, the good old "10 to 15 years investment" isn't real anymore, not with the threat of society collapsing any day now, i have a far better bet of making it with a big bag of $BIAO than holding SV and stocks will ever give me

>>58436990
The amount of shilling you’re doing for biao isn’t even funny. I’ve seen you in like 10 threads tryna inject that BS. make money the honest way man. Stop being a loser.

today, tesla and satoshisync are both equally as volatile in my eyes. tsla gongo up 15% in a single day for no fucking reason. crypto behavior. nvidia gongo up 9999999% or whatever in a week or so. literal shitcoin behavior.

>>58434361
Im not taking anyone seriously who cant spell you