/biz/ - Business & Finance

Until your favorite exchange get subpoena’d with a court order to release the API associated with your account and use it in conjunction with a program that automatically sorts it. Retard.

The IRS is an angency that WILL not stop until they have your money.

>>5831663
You enter all trades on exchanges with your ID attached accurately. That still doesn't stop you for entering as much losses as you want from made up exchanges or now defunkt exchanges. THEY DON'T REQUIRE YOU TO DISCLOSE WHAT EXCHANGES YOU USED.

>>5831663
what if the exchange goes down? what if it's not an US exchange? what if you didn't verify?

as long as they never get binance im good, wait I already created a FUCKING COMPANY IN BELLARUS, anon you could of told some of us sooner

>>5831788

I don’t think you get it. They might not now, but when billions of billions in short term capital gains can be claimed, the government is going to want its cut, one way or another. To think crypto is immune is delusional

>>5831879
>The IRS is going to get anything out of Binance

>>5831469
>Download your trade history
>Hire an accountant
>Minimize Tax
?

>>5831663
>implying chink exchanges are gonna hand over their clients' histories to the IRS

>>5831989
Uh no, because the accountant is going to do it accurately. Unless it's the saul goodman kind.

>>5831469
More likely to be like internet piracy was for years.
The vast majority get away with it
But some unlucky fuckers get the book thrown at them.

>>5831469
I litreally called my bank and asked what to do
they told me to just transfer the money and don't worry about taxes
the rules aren't set in stone yet so the IRS is just trying to get money from you

>>5831879

Hence why we're good for 2018 at least. Let's enjoy the market for now and we'll worry about regulation of exchanges and shit in the far future.

>>5831469
Burgers

>>5831919
>Suddenly binance becomes illegal in the US

>>5832258
And they still won't be able to get access at any trades conducted and they will have to take your word.

>>5832075
Even if I get the book thrown at me I can show that I entered all my trades from KYC/AML exchanges accurately. The "losses" from cryptsy, mtgox, btc-e, binance, shapeshift? Oh sorry, you can't prove i reported anything inaccurately on those sites.

Seriously, try importing your trade histories into Cointracking or bitcoin.tax. All the infromation looks semi organized.... now generate the 8949 form... you'll laugh. You can't tell what the FUCK is going on. You can't see how many coins you have, what coins were traded, what exchanges they were traded on, all the trades are just mashed together on dozens of pages.

Which form should I print out from Bitcoin.tax to show to the CPA? He doesn't have crypto experience but he deals in stocks.

Do I have to report my liquidated BTC to the IRS?

>>5831788

You don't provide proof on your tax forms. You provide proof when you get audited. If you can't provide proof, you can't claim deductions.

>>5832088

That's some horrible advice.

>>5832830
>Oh sorry, you can't prove i reported anything inaccurately on those sites.

You have this backwards. You can only claim deductions IF you can prove it to the irs. The irs does not need proof that you're wrong. You must provide proof that you're right.

>>5833111
Form 8949. It'll look like pic related (random numbers) your accountant won't know what the fuck is going on but he'll just use whatever numbers the software spit out to total up short term and long term and figure out your tax brackets and stuff.

>>5833352
They don't even necessarily have to be deductions though. Say you sold 500 Shitcoins on KYC/AML exchange. You could say the cost basis was almost the same because you bought it in person and there's no way to prove it.

>>5834060

>>5834085
You stupid bitch, that's funny.

>>5832066
minimisation is what accountants are for
evasion is the term normally used for illegal tax avoidance

just send a check for whatever capital gains % is due on your fiat profit. the IRS is not gonna fuck with you if you do this. stop overthinking taxes. they are not a big deal. kys tax FUDers

>>5834231
I have no fiat profit but shit tons of short term capital gains from from crypto > crypto trading. Since filing like-kind doesn't seem appropriate, and if I file absolutely nothing, I'll never be able to cash out without hard evidence left on KYC/AML exchanges that I have unreported trades, this is the next best option in order to not give Trump AS MANY of my paper profits.

Worst case scenario if they audit me is that some of the cost basis for trades the actual KYC/AML exchanges go to 0.

>>5831663

BE AFRAID. DON'T EVEN BOTHER TRADING, IT ISN'T WORTH IT. WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN?

>>5834449
if you don't cash out, they will never know you traded.

>>5834060
>Say you sold 500 Shitcoins on KYC/AML exchange. You could say the cost basis was almost the same because you bought it in person and there's no way to prove it.

A coin for coin exchange is considered like kind exchange and isn't taxable so it doesn't matter.

>>5834550
I'm not taking the chance that they'll never get to polo / bittrex records though and auto-fuck everyone who reported absolutely nothing.

The form isn't that hard.
Export your trades from each exchange. The basis in most cases will revolve around the btc or eth price which is publicly known, so apply the btc/eth price for the day (probably average over the day is the best route). Then show your cost basis and gain or loss. Simple. Might be 100s or 1000s of trades, but it's just a day of data entry so no huge deal.
Keep your transaction records in paper format in case of an audit. If the IRS THEN wants to audit you after you actually claimed all your crypto, they can sort through your trades. But chances are just putting in the good faith effort will spare you an audit anyways. And you are in the clear since you reported it all. And the IRS typically doesn't audit many people making under $100k regardless. If you are cashing out something like $500k+, hire an accountant and tax lawyer. It's not worth fucking yourself in the ass over 15% or your ordinary tax rate.

>>5834617

No it's not. Even in 2017 it's not like kind. People whine about the "loophole" being ended in 2018, but that's true.
Even if you do want to claim like kind, it's a 3 page form for every single trade you made, then you'd have to fight for that tax treatment in court.

>>5831823
desu, nothing. they have no way of tying an electrum wallet or etherdelta with an individual.

>>5834617
>A coin for coin exchange is considered like kind exchange and isn't taxable so it doesn't matter.

Absolutely not. You're real behind on this. It's been suggested since 2014 in the IRS guidance that all crypto exchanges for other property is traded based on fair market value. No guidance has been given on how to file for like-kind. It was solidified into law recently that like-kind doesn't apply to crypto. I'm certain if you try to mail them thousands of pages of 1031 forms (which are geared toward property) that you won't get the deferral approved even for this year, and they'll just audit you.

>>5834745
I have hundreds of thousands in Short Term capital gains from crypto >crypto transactions. CRYPTO TO CRYPTO is a taxable event. That puts me in the highest tax bracket and they want me to fork over like 45% federal / state that I haven't even cashed out.

>>5834987
So using their out dated tax forms against them to do "creative accounting" is in order.

>>5831788
>You enter all trades on exchanges with your ID attached accurately
t. coinbase newfag normie fuck

In my 6 years of crypto I've never given my ID or credit card to anyone or even my personal email and only idiots or lazy faggots can't figure out how to protect themselves and still trade easily deserves to get FUCKED.

>>5834987

Right. Unfortunately crypto to crypto is ordinary income. If you're doing tons of short term trades it's basically taxed like it's your job (which is may very well be).

I hope the IRS spends billions trying to update and get fucked when we all switch to decentralized exchanges. That would make my day.

>Jew FUD still trying to push the lie that a change to a real estate code has anything to do with crypto

>>5835381
A change to a real estate code? Lol you dumb mother fucker. How about the fact that the Tax Bill that trump is signing SPECIFICALLY SAYS CRYPTO DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR LIKE-KIND.

>>5835485
If they have to specifically say it then it wasn't in effect before is signed.

>>5835128
i thought short term crypto daytrade is short term capital gains? 25%, not ordinary income?

>>5834539
Boomer mentality in general
pussies of every situation

>>5831469

> not making a bot that is trading shitcoins for shitcoins every second
> not exporting data to tax form
> not printing off thousands of pages
> not putting pages in 21 different boxes
> not sending boxes to IRS

Sad.

>>5835766
lol tempting

>>5831663
Yes the day Binance based in Hong Kong that is controlled by China that don't give a shit about US submit do that I will care

>>5835766
Lel. I definitely want to do that.

>>5835583
So you're saying then I could just cash out millions years later, no like-kind forms, no short term trades reported at all for any previous years, and everything will work out fine? They'll just be like, ooh, you didn't really have to comply before.

>>5835810
>>5835882
>>5835766

3 * 21 = 63 boxes the IRS has to fondle through.

Anyone else?

>>5835128
>>5835637
don't fret too much, but you should try documenting in case they attempt to smack you with a 0 cost basis for every taxable event which would put you in debt forever.

A lot of you don't understand what the IRS does. They are a shakedown orgranization. They have super powers to fuck up your life through the government. They will send letters out to anyone who looks halfway suspicious saying you owe a shit ton of money because of some error they found. The error will not make sense to you. You will have to hire a CPA to figure it out. They don't give a fuck if they're mistaken. If you prove they are they'll just say "sorry." If you can't prove they will fuck your life till you pay them all they think you owe them.

>take some liberties with your taxes, but don't be too greedy
>hire CPA if you've made big meme money
>do above and you will probably be OK

>>5836147
>They have super powers
Nice just bought 100k.

>>5834085
You would have to seriously put NiggerCoin(NGR) if you traded it. What a joke.

>>5835966
Hey, if i had known it was going to be a taxable event, I would have never tried to flip between BTC & LTC for a minor 5% gain.

They are at fault for not making it explicit.

>>5834085

>>5836147
True enough. At this point I'm planning to make enough by April 10th to leave the country and never come back.

Shouldn't be too hard. One doubling and I'll be set.

>>5831788

That's why you trade on a foreign exchange. Maybe China? HK? Russia? Choice is yours.

>>5834987
If we have to cash out to pay the taxes we get slammed with another tax on what we took out, even though it was already taxed. Really?

>>5833212
Why are you taking deductions when you have no liability, are you trying to scam the tax man or rat yourself out ?

>>5837684
Well, the cost basis gets carried forward after each taxable event. So if you bought BTC for 1000 then traded it for 5000 worth of ETH you have 4000 of short term capital gains. If the ETH stays at the same USD value and you cash out right there, the second tax event will be zero, if it appreciates to be worth 10000 before you cash out you'll have 5000 more short term gains. So 9000 in total. If it goes down before you cash out you can subtract the loss.

>>5837697
The tax man is trying to scam me by taking 45% - 50% of my unrealized profit that I haven't cashed out, so I need to scam him back using his unintelligible capital gains forms by sneaking in losses or tweaking the cost basis a little here and there.

>>5838051
If all my crypto crashed right now I would literally be in debt from taxes.

has anyone been audited by the IRS over crypto gains?

like ever? how do they even do it if you use multiple exchanges and have held many different coins. i could see it being easy for the guy who bought a bunch of BTC on coinbase last year and never moved it, but i really dont get how it would work..

everyone always saw "ohh the irs will get its money"

>>5838251
Pretty sure only no coiners shill the taxes for crypto.
They're so butthurt that it's their last resort.

>>5834231
enjoy your audit

the govt is incompetent and the odds of you getting burned on meme currency taxes is basically none

people lie on their shit for actual irl stuff all the time. the resources needed to investigate crypto shit is 9999x more complicated and inefficient

i would recommend just cashing out and paying your taxes as if it were a lump sum investment, if you get called out on an audit just feign ignorance.

>>5831663
that's why i use binance nigga

>>5838251
I arbitrage 8-9 different exchanges. My trades are such a mess I wouldn't know where to begin.

>>5833352
I mean I'll just give them a printed sheet of paper with my bullshit trade history as "proof". The exchange is gone! What more do you want! I can't go back in time and show you the live website.

>>5838502
this

>>5831919
>>5831850
>>5832258
>>5832830
>>5835863
>>5838509
>binance

enjoy getting gox'd by chinks LMFAO

>>5833111

CPA here, you can send the IRS Excel/pdf attachments when you e-file. Export transaction history in Excel from all exchanges. Your CPA should be able to convert to .pdf

>>5838985
Found the coinbase executive

>>5839080
What's your opinion on bullshitting a few short term losses on the 8949 because it doesn't require you to report some key information like which exchange, which was the second crypto, and what the crypto / crypto price was?

>>5833212
> don’t mention crypto at all
> don’t get audited

>>5839327
>trusting your coins on a chink exchange