/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>57930692
there is no point in crypto anymore, no one cares about it actually being a currency, its just a bubble with some guys developing technology for the sake of techonology or some sophisticated kind of gambling, which is kinda cool for sure, but in no way has any fucking utility

>>57930692
The point of BTC was to fix bretton woods game theory, insittutions buying predates in the game theory on nations buying.

Next step is nations being forced to compete with crypto for bonds, no longer offering returns below inflation and only existing as a way of giving free insurance safe deposit to billionaires.

We move back to the pre 1971 monetary system thanks to btc soon, some nations will adapt others not, but it's the only way out of the 2008 crisis.

>>57930730
Bitcoin is not a currency it’s a store of value, that’s easier to transport than gold. A commodity.

>>57930730
>in no way has any fucking utility
Not for you it doesn't. You didn't buy with every paycheck when it was $20k. No coiners talk about bitcoin gains like it's the female orgasm. It's just you. Bitcoin has utility for everyone but you.

>>57930692
>>57930740
Blackrock are the good guys.

>>57930746
>easier to transport than gold
It's also tens of thousands of times easier to steal BTC than gold.

>>57930751
Fuck off shill
Post 2017 normies have a very distorted view of crypto.

>>57930766
Explain

>>57930799
It's an US company. USA good. Everyone else bad. What the fcuk didn't you understand?

>>57930805
Yeah the “US company” who owns all the corrupt US media and toxic US food companies etc

>>57930746
You are right, i didnt express myself the correct way, i actually enjoy bitcoin i just dont like the path crypto went after ~2017

>>57930751
i kind of agree with you, i really like bitcoin, but whatever the fuck ethereum to the whole crypto space is some irreversible damage

>>57930746
>Bitcoin is not a currency

>>57930846
Nothing wrong with eating McDonald's every day.

>>57930692
1. I'm not actually even though I have coin that is now priced tremendously higher than my buy price. I understand it will continue going higher.
2. Pearl clutching about blackrock is usually based off some irrelevant strawman anyways. It's not a corruption of the network or something that some group I don't like is acquiring bitcoin. That doesn't gain them control of the network. Its actually looking more likely at this point that the incentive system of bitcoin will "capture" institutions and change them to be more in line with it. Individuals can be molded by the incentives of bitcoin, so too can groups, so too eventually can powerful groups. An example of this would be the rise of "bitcoin friendly" elected representatives in government. Small countries like El Salvador can be captured quickly as we have seen, bigger countries will take more bull cycles before they bend the knee. Bitcoin eating the world means more institutions obtaining it. No one has the right to seethe about this because they had so many years to front-run them.
3. A lot of nocoiners here seem to try and float this as an argument that bitcoiners are "selling out" merely by continuing to enjoy a price rise which is helped by blackrock buying on behalf of their investors. These same biztards doubtless have shilled alts before using the pitch of institutional interest in them. It was never at any point an implicit goal to gate-keep who could own bitcoin, as that is stupid and incompatible with just being a money.

>>57930954
I’m not a nocoiner

>>57930879
For the millionth time "a purely peer to peer version of electronic cash" is a technical description, not use case. Second, intention is worthless.

>>57930751
No one cares dude.

>>57931089
You are a gigantic fool.

>>57930692
You think it’s never going to crash again so I buy back in like I did the last 5 times? What’s so different this time

>>57930692
>The point of btc was to BTFO financial monopolies

Absolute fucking reddit midwit take

the point was always to make money

>>57930692
low supply squeeze here we come

>>57931246
Ecash was centralized, literally just a reference to Ecash. Sorry you're stupid and don't understand the context of BTC. Sorry you're stupid and think intent matters at all. Better luck next life.

>>57931255
Everything comes to a head

>>57930766
>jews are the good guys

Crypto introduces transaction costs that are unnecessary if you're not a privacy schizo. If you run a business or a financial institution with any degree of legality you just wouldn't bother. Even for cartels, terrorist orgs, insurgencies and dictatorships you can use different modes of exchange (cash, barter, etc.)
And on top of that you get a wild variance of exchange rate which further tanks crypto's promise as a currency. All this "digital gold" bullshit actually was born out of crypto's failure as money.
Unless you can buy groceries for this shit, it's useless.
>>57930746
Gold has some baseline value. You can make nice shiny stuff with it that will remain nice and shiny for millenia. You can turn one gram of it into a huge sheet of metal one molecule thin with medieval level of technology. Inert as fuck, conductive as well, amazing for termal reflection.
What the fuck are you supposed to do with a fucking hash though?

>>57930864
>mad he didnt buy any eth
lol its not too late my nigga

>>57930777
Is it? If people cant protect their btc as in using adequate measures to store their keys theyre at fault

Someone having gold bullions laying around at home should not be surprised that someone breaks in and steals it (not hard)

Even if he has it in a safe, cracking a safe is a LOT easier than cracking a seed or a very good passphrase

>>57931680
they will just “simulate” the gold with augmented reality

>>57930692

I keep repeating this, but Bitcoin was always a gambling token. Maybe in the very beginning the founders (probably NSA/CIA techbros) thought it was a good idea, but it's fucking dead. It's not going to replace the USD, it's not going to replace gold, anybody that actually thinks that doesn't understand how the banking system works, at all. People only buy it so later down the road they can sell it for USD and buy actual tangible assets like real estate, cars, etc.

I haven't read the study in years, but I specifically remember a BIS study somewhere around 2014 - 2016, where they asked Bitcoin investors why they were holding Bitcoin. 92% answered that they were only holding it to get rich and that they would sell it at some point to buy other shit. Only 8% said they were holding it for the technology, or as a USD/gold replacement. And that's back in 2016. The numbers today are probably way worse. It's probably 99% holding it for a pump 'n dump and 1% holding it as a currency replacement.

>>57931361
Unironically, yes.
They are our greatest allies.
Only brown hamas sympathizers would seethe about them.

>>57932141
Yeah but my point is we are moving away from “tangible” of course we will still value tangibility but we already live our life through a screen they are just going to bring ownership and asset value to the virtual world like they are already doing.

>>57932141
The cycles are less volatile every time, so in some years it will become less of a speculative investment, and more of a deflationary store of value. At some point the price will stabilize enough to not have bull runs anymore and sellers in big industries will start actually favoring it over fiat because it's money that does not rot with time.

>>57930692
It's a way to move wealth outside of Russia and Ukraine so you don't get drafted by force, way to move funds over the border when government tries to stop you, way to cheaply transfer funds from being a brazilian whore in Zagreb, way to hide from the Ukranian government when you evade the normal economy and still get paid and live hidden in some other apartment away form the draft officers, way to move money from your business that the Russian government is trying to keep inside Russia but you want to diversify to other countries
All these examples are almost daily occurrence my family member deals with daily. It's being used as way less crappy western union.

>>57932687
If 99% of the demand is coming from speculation, what do you think will happen to the price when people realize it's not going up anymore and dump it?

>>57930777
Lmao are you retarded or something? I can hold my bitcoin secure in a fucking brain wallet. It's the first asset class of its kind where you could threaten or even kill me and still not get access to my funds unless I willingly tell you. How can you do that with gold? A nigger can just shoot you dead and take it from you. Good luck extracting the 24 word seedphrase out of my brain you low IQ faggot

>>57930879
Satoshi is not a messiah or Jesus so stop treating his word like the gospel of God. It's always seething nocoiners that do this too, pretending like there's a central figure behind Bitcoin. As soon as the protocol was out and other people started mining it, it became a thing of his own. If the people who mine and validate bitcoin think it being a store of value is a better use than paying for your sóybucks frappucino latte with it, then that's what they decided. Satoshi could come back tomorrow for all I care and nobody would give a shit what he wants. This is the point of it being decentralized, nigger.

>>57932712
It will go up forever as long as it is measured in USD which is being debased and diluted forever. Compared to the prices of goods or real estate it will stay stagnant, as a HARD MONEY should be. Can you stay the same for your fiat cuckbucks which lose value in perpetuity against real estate, which is why most average joe normies are priced out of ever being homeowners? Thought so. Faggot.

>>57932712
Each cycle gradually changes the percentage of users who want it for speculation vs for store of value (which is admittedly marginal still). Each cycle also a greater number of people have participated the blockchain, normalizing it.
Speculation will only dominate for these early volatile decades of BTC, and probably will for a few more decades, but it will flip eventually. The true price discovery is the cycle stabilization until bull runs disappear to never return. Speculators won't drop it all at once when bull run disappears suddenly tanking the price, they will participate less and less in BTC investing every cycle as the price reaches its true exchange rate to fiat and from that point it will steadily and surely appreciate over fiat constantly. By that point stores will absolutely prefer it.

>>57932768
You're saying that less speculation over time means the amount invested in bitcoin will go up at a slower pace over time. That doesn't make sense. People expect a return on their investment and if the price stops going up, they WILL sell and pull their money out. At that point, the value of a bitcoin will be whatever the non-speculative demand will support, so maybe $5 per bitcoin.

>>57932806
>You're saying that less speculation over time means the amount invested in bitcoin will go DOWN. While the amount dedicated as store of value will go up, because of its deflationary nature. When this flip occurs in some decades, markets will favor it over fiat.

ftfy

>>57930692
>sell
more like selling covered calls

>>57930746
Cope - it was designed to be a P2P cash from day 1.

>>57932834
But gold already exists and fills that niche. The only upside to bitcoin is that it's very easy to move around, but of the people who are interested in a safe hedge against inflation, what percentage are concerned about being able to take their wealth with them over the border at a moments notice? I'd guess a very low percentage, most of which are criminals. Then there's the disadvantage of bitcoin being a series of 1s and 0s on a ledger, not a physical, useful metal like gold. I don't see bitcoin ever being anything more than a speculative asset.

>>57932869
Ja - plus it doesn't cost very much to use a private vaulting service, and you can withdraw to any bank account you want.

>>57930730
>It's just a bubble
Jesus fucking Christ is this 2016 again?

>>57932869
Yes. As a store of value gold is already greatly used today, which I where BTC is heading.
You are correct that markets almost don't use gold though, because fiat has the advantages of convenient divisibility, portability, and verifiability.
BTC has all of that.

>>57932934
>which I where BTC is heading
I don't see bitcoin heading there. You can't just gloss over the fact that, unlike gold, it has no inherent value.
>because fiat has the advantages of convenient divisibility, portability, and verifiability.
>BTC has all of that.
Are you talking about bitcoin as a store of value or a currency? Because those are two very different things and bitcoin will never be a widely adopted currency.

>>57932907
we're full of newfag nocoiners again now that BTC is ripping to new heights.

>>57930879
>pic
pretty sure thats link

>>57932965
>I don't see bitcoin heading there
Precisely the fact that some people still can't see it is what still allows the bull run cycles to still be a thing. A naturally occurring financial system change will naturally take some decades to complete. Meanwhile this is the historical time window where one can take advantage of the waves of this new technology to make money. Speculating of course. The main variable one has to pay attention to is societal adoption. Cultural impact, ETFs, countries adopting it, people holding until they retire, etc. Such things are growing and would have been unthinkable when BTC released. Ultimately all money requires psychological belief.

>Are you talking about bitcoin as a store of value or a currency?
Firstly as a store of value. That happens gradually each cycle.
I repeat, as cycles stabilize, eventually a majority of its use will be store of value.

Only some time after that flip, it will have the ability to truly become a fully functioning currency. And it will because it is a better currency than what we have now.

>>57932965
Gold has no inherent value either you retard. Hard money does NOT have to have any utility besides it's scarcity. Utility accounts for barely any of its market cap and if that's what accounted for all of its valuation then silver or palladium or platinum would've FAR eclipsed it by now.
Gold is favored over fiat because it's supposedly scarce. Unlike fiat, which central bankers can print more out of thin air every year to fund their bailouts or forever-wars, they can't do that with gold. It also is very resilient, it doesn't corrode.
There's massive problems with gold though: division is terrible. Verifying that the gold is actually gold and not just gold sprayed copper takes too much effort. Carrying it around is physically hard. It's being inflated 1% to 2% each year by miners digging up more from the ground. Not to mention you pay a 10-15% premium on buying gold. If you buy ETFs holding gold then that's just an IOU and you have counterparty risks and completely negate the advantage of gold, might as well just hold bonds or stocks at that point. STILL, people prefer it to shitty fiat because it can't be debased THAT easy by governments.
Bitcoin fixes all of those issues. It's a hard asset that nobody can tamper with, it separates money from state. It's verified and validated by free market forces. It's infinitely divisible extremely easily. It's fungible. But most importantly it has a fixed supply. There's zero chance in this world that there will ever be more than 21 million bitcoins. EVER. So it's a deflationary asset by nature.
You have no idea what money is. What hard money is. Pre-colonial indians used fucking seashells as a store of value, until europeans arrived and just went to a different island to collect seashells where they were abundant and completely crashed their markets. Seashells had no inherent value either besides being rare at that point in time to them. But it was a shit asset because it wasn't rare in other parts of the world.

>>57933044
I agree with most of what you’ve said but I don’t think it will take that long for massive adoption and economical shift. Common society didn’t see AI advancing as rapidly and efficiently as it has and it’s already taking jobs and minimizing workload. Apple is releasing its augmented reality, AR/VR is being shilled on all fronts, we could see digital store of value happening quicker than we think.

>>57930766
No, they just see that the trajectory of the Titanic is irreversible.

>>57933050
Underrated

>>57932723
Tell me how your seedphrase protects you when you're at gunpoint forced to give it up. Similar as opening a safe at gunpoint. What can you really do?

>>57933132
You can rob someone and take their gold with no trace. You can’t do that with bitcoin.

>>57933077
It's easier for a company to change tech for productivity than for society to change its financial system.

Companies just require one dude to make a decision while societies require natural cultural evolution and appeasing the mistrust among each other.
Companies have incentives to proactively surpass competitors and gain market position, while societies only adopt stuff as they passively start seeing their advantages.

Ultimately tech always, always wins. It's a constant in History that humans can not stop tech, only adapt to it. Timings are different depending on the group affected.

>>57933044
You say that bitcoin will eventually become a widely adopted store of value, but you don't say why. A series of 1s and 0s is inherently worthless, so why would people trust it to keep its value over time?
>>57933050
>Gold has no inherent value either
Holy shit cryptocultists are retarded, pic related.
>Hard money does NOT have to have any utility besides it's scarcity
lol you think you're making some kind of revelation when you say this. Money doesn't need to have any inherent value besides scarcity and several other properties, correct, but here again you're confusing store of value and currency. A currency has worth because of the goods and services it enables people to trade, while a store of value must have some inherent value. Bitcoin has no inherent value and almost nothing is traded with it except maybe a tiny amount of drugs.

>>57933132
Here's the difference. A safe can be cracked open after they shoot you dead very, very easily. There is no uncrackable safe. My seedphrase can never be taken out of my brain without me willingly giving it. Any method you would use to get my bitcoins can be used to get hold of any other asset in this world, but there's some methods you can use on other assets that you can't use on Bitcoin. Therefore Bitcoin is infinitely safer.

>>57933137
>>57933170
Search for "denailing".

>>57933170

>>57933167
You just proved yourself wrong with your own fucking picture.
>Electronics 6%
that's the only utility value of gold. The other 94% of it is simple store of value, exactly the same as Bitcoin but with inferior properties.

>>57933202
>jewelry has no value
lmao

>>57933189
>>57933185
>average IQ of a nocoiner
Read my post again you illiterate retard.

>>57933140
I think society adapting to AI replacing the work force and changing the way they experience life is coinciding with the way we think about money. Information is no longer behind a paywall it’s freely accessible therefore it is no longer gate kept. People no longer want to trade all their time for money when they can have it done for them with the help of tech. People no longer even reach in their wallets anymore to pay for things they just tap their phone. It is already being normalized.

>>57933167
I said because it is deflationary.
That is the main reason

But add to it that it is decentralized too. When people see the advantage of not depending on banks, KYC, regulations, and can be free of sanctions, frozen accounts, limited withdrawals, yadda yadda they won't want to touch a bank again.

>>57933167
That’s what’s wrong with currency - currently. It was depegged from gold and therefore became worthless other than the fact it had already started as a currency that was backed by something(a store of value) and the scary gov came in and changed that to print it endlessly and people just went along with it because it was already accepted as a means of exchange.

>>57933209
Tell me what value does it hold. Tell me why is it that synthetic diamonds are much cheaper than the ones formed in earth through millions of years, when they are identical to each other? Tell me why haven't gold-looking plastic jewelries overtaken gold?

>>57933215
The point is you'd still give it up regardless, man. You and I both know it.

>>57933215
>he didn't understand the implication of a transparent blockchain
Spotted the retard.

>>57933241
Not just that, they were forced to adopt worthless fiat money by Executive Order 6012 which forced all american citizens to forfeit their gold to the government. They literally forced the average person to forfeit hard money for an inflatable easily debased piece of garbage money. When you can't hold money you will try to escape to other financial vehicles which are not easy to debase, that's why real estate prices and the S&P 500 have been going up forever since then. If the money is not scarce it's defective. The USD is defective. People want to get rid of it as soon as they paid their bills with it because it's losing value perpetually.

>>57933264
You can have a multisig wallet, the criminal would have to kindap you and all the other people with the sig to open it, all at the same time. I guess it's doable but quite a heist that would be

>>57933271
Elaborate the implication.

>>57933285
With the blockchain and fiat transactions analyzable by a maliciuous actor, your digital wealth is transparent and therefore exploitable.

>>57933284
I think you're missing my point

>>57933271
It may be transparent but it can't be reliably tracked back to me, you can only guess. How many people do you plan to kidnap and extort based on a guess
Not to mention that XMR is always one bridge away

>>57933264
Do you seriously not get the point? If that situation occured, with bitcoin you have the autonomy of giving up your keys to your attackers. With any other asset like gold, you don't have that. They can shoot you and take it. With Bitcoin, if you get killed, whether by them or yourself, your bitcoins are lost forever. Any method you would use to torture someone out of their bitcoin could be used with any other asset. But at the end YOU are the one that has to give up the seedphrase. So saying that bitcoin is less secure than gold is plain retarded.

>>57933304
Your digital id including posts on this website is unique. XMR makes no difference.
And this is a good thing.

>>57933300
Your point was that a seedphrase doesn't protect you against a criminal who's torturing you. I'm telling you that a multisig does in fact protect you in that scenario. Tortume all you want, I can't get to that money unless I call my friends and agree to set up a meeting where we open it in a public place

>>57933313
>encryption makes no difference
Yeah it does, it encrypts. You don't know if I own XMR. You'll never know and I'm not going to tell you. And that's a good thing.

Today is my marriage anniversary bit I don't have the money to spend this memorable moments well. Can any anon slide me $1k - $1.5k so that I can celebrate the day well?

Thanks anons

>>57933226
>deflationary
>decentralized
>free of sanctions, frozen accounts, limited withdrawals
I agree that an asset with those properties would indeed be valuable. But you're making an assumption that at some point in the future, you will be able to trade bitcoin for goods and services without having to convert it to fiat first. Otherwise, what would be the point of holding bitcoin? So you're saying that bitcoin will be a widely accepted currency.
There are two main problems with that assumption. The most obvious is that bitcoin is unsuited for use as a currency because of its proof of work scheme. It just doesn't have enough capacity to be used as a worldwide medium of exchange. And no, the lightning network is going to solve that problem without killing the "decentralized" aspect of bitcoin. Which is the whole point of its existence.
The second problem is that governments aren't going to allow people to use a currency that they have no control over. It's just not going to happen. So inevitably, you'll have to trade your crypto for fiat to buy things, same as everyone does now. Which means you'll have to go through the traditional banking system controlled by the government. Again, this nullifies any advantage bitcoin or any other decentralized currency might have.
>inb4 El Salvador
Meme countries don't count.

>>57933299
You have a surface level knowledge of how the Bitcoin blockchain works. First, the fact that it's transparent and auditable was necessary for public adoption. It's a settlement layer. Monero would've never gotten adopted because it can't be audited. There can be an inflation bug within it and you would never know.
Second, you're supposed to use a different address for each different transaction. Malicious actors can't dox you personally from blockchain data unless CEXes get hacked and your data is leaked to them, which could (and already did) happen to tradfi banks too.
Third of all, Bitcoin is a settlement layer replacing FedWire. If you think it's going to be used to pay for your frappuccino latte you have zero idea. That's the job of Layer 2's, like Visa on top of FedWire or like Lightning Network on top of Bitcoin.

>>57933328
I didn't say encryption. I typed "digital id" for a reason.

>>57933331
Kill yourself jeet beggar

>>57933337
The serial numbers in the devices you own do not change.

>>57933247
>cryptocultist doesn't understand why items satisfying human vanity have value

>>57933335
I can already do that you idiot. In Czechia I can go on alza and buy a brand new macbook and pay with Bitcoin. I bought VPS from Vultr using Bitcoin. I paid for my domain name with Bitcoin. You're spouting shit without doing a fucking lick of research to check whether you're wrong

>>57933339
Ok, you still don't know if I own XMR. Nice semantics though, look forward to when I'm bored enough to figure out what you're trying to say

>>57933305
I never said Bitcoin is less secure, I just believe that at gunpoint you'll give up either. Because that's the most likely scenario. >>57933322

>>57933360
>I can go on alza and buy a brand new macbook and pay with Bitcoin.
You're not actually paying the business with bitcoin you retard. You're going through a middleman which takes your bitcoin, converts it to fiat and pays the business. The business providing the goods never touches your funny money.

>>57933353
You're a teenager using buzzwords. Go to bed nigger.
>>57933354
Anything satisfying human vanity only do so because they're scarce. Gucci and Louis Vuitton only satisfies human vanity because they price out average joe's thus they're scarce. Vanity just means looking valuable and what is valuable? Scarcity. They don't wear plastic coated in gold to flex, they flex real gold because real gold is what's scarce. That's the point of jewelry.

>>57933381
>DUDE YOU'RE NOT ACTUALLY PAYING APPLE WITH EUROS, THEY CONVERT TO USD AS SOON AS THEY CAN THEREFORE EUR IS WORTHLESS FUNNY MONEY
What a low IQ point to make

>>57933381
Bless me anon :' )

>>57933397
I hope God blesses us by breaking your shit stained curry fingers so you won't beg here again jeet

>>57933392
Nigger, you're paying Alza with fiat, not crypto. Which means your government has control and oversight over your purchase. And besides, the only reason the middleman is able to perform that service is because retards are speculating on the value of bitcoin, ensuring a demand for your funny money. If that speculation goes away, so does the middleman.

>>57933397
Fuck off pajeet. I'm BTFOing cryptocultists here.

>>57933409
We've already gone through this. Whatever, you lack the cognitive capacity to think outside the box of the current fiat system. Hope the lurkers at least got it. Enjoy staying poor.

>>57933418
>Enjoy staying poor.
Standard response of the cryptocultist when he's backed into a corner. Enjoy the coming rugpull.

>>57933434
Reminder that it's not a rugpull if you get USDT for your crypto.
We will redeem them all.
God bless the U S A.

>>57933335
>you're making an assumption that at some point in the future, you will be able to trade bitcoin for goods and services without having to convert it to fiat first.
Correct.
>There are two main problems with that assumption.
>The most obvious is that bitcoin is unsuited for use as a currency because of its proof of work scheme. It just doesn't have enough capacity to be used as a worldwide medium of exchange.
I concede that it will definitely not be BTC in particular. I have been sloppily arguing for Bitcoin when I actually aim to argue for cryptocurrency.
BTC won't be the one. It will be replaced more than a few times in market capitalization and as store of value before we arrive to the cryptocurrency I have been arguing for. It surely won't be any of the existing ones at thenmoment. We are at that experimental point in History where crypto tech is testing itself.
>governments aren't going to allow people to use a currency that they have no control over. It's just not going to happen.
I don't agree. Tech has more power than societal structures. Tech has even changed long standing hierarchies through History. Humans can't stop tech, they can only adapt to it after a period of crying and complaining.

>>57930692
It's a bit sad because it was extremly obvious for years already,
literally a once in a lifetime opportunity to front-run almost everyone.
At least we believers will reap our rewards when we eventually sell 1% of our stack to begging Blackrock.

>>57933488
Based seller.
I'll give you 10 Trillion USDT for one Bitcoin.
Deal?

>>57933499
Anon, can you slide me $1.5k? :' )

>>57933508
How about a trade?
I'll send you 5k USDT.
And you send me your soul.

>>57933537
Don't get me wrong please. I just need $1.5k, not more than that. Today is my marriage anniversary actually but I don't have the money to spend this memorable moments well. Can you slide me $1k - $1.5k so that I can celebrate the day well?

>>57933562
Fuck you stop trying to derail this thread

>>57933562
Of course. I'll have a smart contract set up for that amount.

As usual, a 4chan thread degrades into a bunch of edgelords using ad-hominems. Great thread guys. At least this one had a few decent comments and responses.

>>57933579
Can I post my usdt addy anon? Can you send to me now?

>>57933459
>I concede that it will definitely not be BTC in particular. I have been sloppily arguing for Bitcoin when I actually aim to argue for cryptocurrency.
Fair enough.
>BTC won't be the one. It will be replaced more than a few times in market capitalization and as store of value before we arrive to the cryptocurrency I have been arguing for. It surely won't be any of the existing ones at thenmoment.
Which means a lot of people will lose their savings in the ensuing rugpulls.
>Tech has more power than societal structures. Tech has even changed long standing hierarchies through History.
It would have to be some kind of game changing tech to cause that kind of disruption. That is, it would have to be a tech that nations must adopt in order to stay competitive. If a government refused to allow steam engines at the start of the industrial revolution for example, it would quickly fall behind into irrelevance. A decentralized, deflationary medium of exchange, though it may have some benefits, is not that kind of revolutionary technology. On the contrary, it actually has drawbacks. Can you imagine how organized crime would expand if it had access to an untraceable, widely accepted currency? Gangs and their rackets would pop up everywhere like they did in the old days. A deflationary currency would also encourage people to sit on their wealth instead of investing it in productive assets. The cons far outweigh the benefits if you look at it from a societal perspective.

>>57933600
Yes please post your adress. I'll just add it to the contract.

>>57933618
So, you won't send me now? :' (

>>57933562
I can send you $300k, which isn't the amount you're asking for, but it's a step there.
Send me your address, I'll send you within an hour.

>>57933675
$300*, not k. I'm rich, but not that rich.

>>57933675
Thanks anon. It will be very helpful. Which address you can send me the crypto? Btc? Eth? Usdt? Also can you send me an email to heartist100@gmail.com so that I can be in touch with you anon? This post maybe deleted cause of asking, so if you could send me an email, I could send you the address there. Thanks anon

>>57933700
Do you have monero? If not, I'll just send it to you in Ethereum.

>>57933606
>On the contrary, it actually has drawbacks. Can you imagine how organized crime would expand if it had access to an untraceable, widely accepted currency?
Already a thing. It's called paper usd, a.k.a cash.
>A deflationary currency would also encourage people to sit on their wealth instead of investing it in productive assets. The cons far outweigh the benefits if you look at it from a societal perspective.
Ah yes, the money printer used to fund the biggest and most destructive wars in human history as well as current forever-wars is very beneficial from a social perspective.

>>57933721
Please send me an email to heartist100@gmail.com before my post got deleted

>>57931680
a property of good money is that it is fundamentally worthless...in that it's only value is to be used as a unit of account, transfer of value etc. gold does fail at this because it has industrial uses that arguable more attractive than monetary ones.

>>57933733
Slurp on my balls you fucking poorfag.

>>57933745
So, you were just trolling with me whole the time?

>>57933721
I thought you mean it, but now you are trolling

>>57933725
Yes, but cash limits the purchases you can make. Try paying for a house or car in cash without raising huge red flags everywhere.
>Ah yes, the money printer used to fund the biggest and most destructive wars in human history as well as current forever-wars is very beneficial from a social perspective.
Ever heard of the hundred years war?

>>57932892
and what if the private vaulting service refuses to return your gold? what are you going to do, take it by force? you are a eurocuck you don't own a rifle. go to court? who says you have any rights?

>>57933844
>who says you have any rights?
If you want to go with that line of thinking there's nothing stopping someone from torturing you until you give up your crypto key phrases.

>>57930692
This is why Link makes more sense. You never have to sell your stack since it has utility value which staking rewards for.

Yeah sure, I don't think Blackrock is willing to hold through an halving.

>>57931744
a $5 wrench attack will work on a crypto holder. try getting gold out of a bank vault with a $5 wrench

>>57930746
>Bitcoin is not a currency
false
>it’s a store of value
you can't store value, midwit LARPer

>>57930730
>there is no point in crypto anymore
yes there is
BFT with no trusted third party
trustless currency
trustless virtual machine for contracts
self custody
self verification/ audit

you lost fiatcel

>>57930730
back to smg with you boomer

>>57931089
your amateur opinion is not relevant
the core devs, the technical community and the cypherpunks are the ones who have a say in this, because we are the ones contributing and maintaining the codebase
bitcoin is a peer to peer currency
if you want your "store of value" (LOL) go and fork the code all you want
we all know you won't

>>57930730
>there is no point in crypto anymore
>anymore

>no one cares about it actually being a currency
nobody cared about that for well over a decade at this point. I remember logging on to BTC-e exchange back in 2013 and going into the trollbox expecting to find a bunch of guys ready to fight the power, it was just a bunch of degenerate gamblers, just like today.

>>57934577
cypherpunks won
fiatcels lost
gamblers also won but that's ok

>>57930740
Correct, but there will be more players than just BTC in the QFS.

>>57933587
the problem in this thread is that I arrived late to call out the midwits and LARPers
also there is a big chance that when a "cash vs e-gold" discussion develops, a bcasher will come in and parrot the same worthless garbage about small blocks that they still haven't understood over the course of many years
Monero has partially solved the dynamic blocksize question, better than bcash did, which makes them go fuming
it also doesn't help that idiots can't see we need both bitcoin and monero as separate entities, and that a full crypto stack means many blockchains performing various specialized functions

>>57930692
I don't give a fuck what it was meant to do, I will use it as I please

>>57930746
>store of value
but also
>centralized supply
>could go to 100k or 5k at any minute depending on the actions of a handful of people
shoo shoo shill

>>57930766
Of course not but if you think you can create an alternative system without them being involved then you are incredibly niave

>>57935698
Have fun with your Xi Fagping Pooteen Dallars, then.
Nothing beats the U S A banking system.

>>57933743
No its the inverse. Fiat wasnt a new invention in 1972

>>57930692

Agreed. Bitcoin has lost its soul now. You can still make money on it, but it is no longer what it once was. Monero takes its legacy now.

>>57933844
That's why the court system exists.

everyone gets btc at the price they deserve

>>57935759
And that price is in US Dollars.

>>57931680
>What the fuck are you supposed to do with a fucking hash though?
perfect money, which is extremely useful

>>57930746
it will be

>>57930730
fiat will collapse so it's inevitable

>>57935665
liquidity makes it harder to move, as holders refuse to sell for obvious reasons

>>57934529
Try getting a BTC ETF share out of someone with a $5 wrench

>>57934691
>I don't give a fuck what it was meant to do
This. Like you're supposed to think "oh damn, this token i paid $1000 that i can now sell for $70k isn't doing exactly as it was 'supposed' to. I'd best throw it away"
Fallacious reasoning is common among fudders

>>57935863
You would never sell for worthless fiat.
Or would you?

>>57932141
bitcoin is strictly superior to gold+usd combined, so yes it will obviously replace it over time

Bitcoin cash

>>57935876
>>57935878
You bought a call option on the US Dollar.

>>57935890
value is derived directly from the supply, so no

>>57935871
Only if i wanted to buy something at the same moment. If they offered a btc payment i could pay directly with BTC. End result is the same.
You don't accrue interest on BTC so there's no point in keeping it forever if you want to benefit from it in any way.
I suppose you could borrow against it in a LP, but the price could go down leaving you stuck with repayment issues.
I don't hold BTC, for the record. I'm all in Link and intend to live off rewards.

>>57935914
The only thing that matters is that those treasury bills were sold to you.
>>57935916
>link bags
Opinion discarded.

>>57935976
what's your point? I don't care about us scams

>>57936010
My point is, that i am VERY grateful for (you) investing in my countrys currency.
Thank you for supporting the U S A.

I have 50$ bills for sale…only 100$! They’ll be worth millions soon!! Trust me!

BTC was made by the banks. They knew way before we did that the current system won't last forever. They are just creating exit liquidity before they move to the new system.
Do you really think there would be ETFs, governments would be saying it's legal tender if they had no idea who Satoshi was?

>>57930692
>just about double my sats every cycle
This time blackrock will pay for it

>>57936032
I invested into bitcoin which will accelerate the dollar reaching 0, you sound crazy

>>57936170
they made it legal because there is money to be made and they know they can't kill it

>>57936230
Bitcoins sole purpose is to fuel Tether Holdings to buy more US treasuries and spongue up Eurodollars.

>>57933189
It is still harder to steal someone's BTC because you need to torture the seed phrase out of them, whereas the government can just take your gold, no questions asked.
You clearly watch too many action movies.
Real life isn't like your Die Hard films, boom-boom.

>>57936230
I mean if the dollar ever does reach zero, we're just going to launch WW3 in an effort to maintain american hegemony. Sooner or later it always comes back to that, and then real question is "how many bitcoins does it take to stop a bomb?"

>>57936308
>the government can just take your gold
>but they'll NEVER torture my password out of me
>I would never break
>I built different

>>57936308
Imagine living in a country where the government would take your gold from you.
I could never live in russia or nazi germany.
>>57936382
Based and american exceptionalism pilled.

>>57930740
is this bullish or bearish for bitcoin?

>>57936399
>thinking I even know my own passwords
>thinking I could even explain to someone how to recreate them
Every time I need my private keys it takes a full day for me to figure out what the fuck I'm doing. Also nobody knows I have any crypto until I file my taxes tomorrow.

>>57932869
Being a midwit in the IQ range of 105-120 really is the greatest curse that can be bestowed upon a man...

>>57936399
I lost it in a boating accident. What will they do? Will they torture millions of citizens individually until they spit up a seedphrase? What world are you living in you moron

>>57936431
i have gold and crypto and live in russia with no issues, governments wont take your shit schizo, but your local ghetto niggers sure will, i wouldnt hold gold if i was a mutt.

>>57936431
What is Executive Order 6102? Read up faggot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#/media/File:Executive_Order_6102.jpg

>>57936589
>russian glownigger
>>57936595
>another russian glownigger
WTF happened to this site?
Whatever. Please keep buying treasuries, mmkay?

>>57936287
building a monetary system based on infinite supply currency, and managed by banks on top of that, you deserve what will happen to you, your system will collapse, debt will keep increasing, and the dollar will keep trending to zero, and the fact that you're the laughing stock of the world will be written in history books

>>57936529
Can you point out where he's wrong instead of resorting to ad hominem?

lots of statist bootlickers in this chat

>>57936399
>>but they'll NEVER torture my password out of me
Nobody said that, fucking idiot.
The point still stands that it is still more difficult to seize Bitcoin than it is gold. People don't have to torture gold out of you like they do private keys. Civil asset forfeiture is already a thing - people have their cash and gold seized all the time by cops, and they don't even need a warrant to do it. The whole torture thing adds extra steps between them just taking the thing that they want

>>57936893
I don't have to. Several people already tried doing so in vain, just like others have already commented on your retarded "what if" scenario >>57934494
earlier in the thread when the same argument was made by others... Yes, there is no easy way of protecting against a $5 wrench attack. But at least you have full sovereignty of giving up the seed or dying with it. Not so much with gold... Even if you had to escape for some reason, doing so with a treasure chest (after locating it without getting followed to begin with) just isn't practical. Burying it in your backyard comes with obvious flaws, and putting it in the custody of a third party like a bank historically hasnt turned out well either

>>57936893
the best store of value shall be money by definition
gold isn't ideal money, is inflationary, not digital, it has already been abandoned as a currency due to its shortcomings, in the end the best money will prevail, and technology can only make gold obsolete, in particular due to its uncapped supply
bitcoin having the property of ideal money, it's only a matter of time. the dollar will keep trending to zero, allong with the demand for it, by then people won't use gold to transact because it's inconvenient and unusable online.
in other words people advocating for gold or usd are biased by their own interests and that's why they're often called midwits or worse

>>57937094
>in other words people advocating for gold or usd are biased by their own interests and that's why they're often called midwits or worse
Haha unlike cryptobros right?

>>57938346
advocating for bitcoin isn't the same thing as advocating for gold and usd in the context of money, did you even read my post?

>>57936287
Tether buys bitcoin with its profits gayboy

>>57936893
Midwittest reply ITT

>>57933835
>Yes, but cash limits the purchases you can make
Ah right, that'll be why the illicit international drugs trade is so small, huh?
Just because you can't imagine how to launder cash doesn't mean people more intelligent than you who've been doing it for years don't

>>57930692
OP, morals dont make money.

>>57932739
Exactly. Intent is meaningless. BTC will be used for what it's useful for, and that's being a fixed unit of account (world first)

>>57932869
>But gold already exists and fills that niche
2% mining inflation, more whenever gold pumps, difficult to move, difficult to audit, difficult to store. BTC mogs gold as a store of value.

>>57933167
>7% of annual gold production goes towards functional use
Wow, it's fucking nothing.

>>57933209
Tungsten filled gold is functionally identical to solid gold, if jewelry were functional demand filled gold would dominate the market, it doesn't, ergo it's SoV demand.

>>57932723
midwits are exhilarating

I work for BlackRock, but I'm also a frogposter. The world is not so Black(rock)and white as you guys make it out to be.

>>57936617
nice argument

>>57939659
Are you a good guy?

>>57940619
majority of people at places like blackrock are literal wagies

>>57930740
this is the retardation that hijacked bitcoin.

>>57941348
How so sir

>>57934529
by this logic you could kidnap a family member with a 5$ wrench attack and ask the gold holder to take out his gold, retard.

>>57930692
When the institution holds majority of bitcoin it becomes as worthless as fiat so technically you will be profiting off their buy-in to their own economy.

Also satoshi still has a wallet with half the bitcoin. If the USA becomes reliant on bitcoin then some random will wffectively hold half of their economy.

Don't forget el salvador. There is probably some jew conspiracy going on there, they'll all f out of israel and make a new promised land or something. I don't care that much, have fun thinking about that possibility.

>thread is still up
I see no one has been able to properly refute my line of reasoning
>>57933167
>>57933335
>>57933381
>>57933409
>>57933606

>>57942119
you couldn't refute mine
>store of value doesn't exist
>bitcoin solves the byzantine generals problem without a trusted setup
>blockchains when set up correctly allow for trustless virtual ledgers/ machines/ mixers/ data availability
>>57934553
>>57934576
>>57934595
>>57934652

>>57942433
I have to sleep now but I'll read them in the morning and reply if the thread is still up.

>>57942460
there's absolutely nothing for you to say to me because I'm not a maxi "HODLer" moonboy waiting for the end of the world

>>57942119
>>57942433
>>57942460
>>57942501

Bump.

>>57942089
retard alert

>>57938490
He refuted this argument here >>57935890

interesting thread all in all
i am going to buy some blackrock shares

>>57930692
Everyone throw in some pocket change and start shilling it everywhere. Easy 100x token

https://dexscreener.com/solana/jaj94ye1awstrkmv1pymkrgfqsrtpnzcgf8pydrwdchq

>>57930692
Bitcoin is a Dollar derivative. So, when the Dollar goes down so will Bitcoin.

>>57943749
it's anti-fiat and you know it

>>57943843
refute this: >>57935890

>>57943852
read the fucking thread

>>57943877
but i did and came to the conclusion that crypto investments are used to buy us treasuries?
so what now?

>>57943892
that's a fairly stupid conclusion I'm afraid
the only thing that matters in the end is supply; bonds are going to zero, dollar is going to zero, finite and resilient assets like bitcoin are going the opposite, hence the name "anti-fiat"
if you can't see the trend on charts I suggest you buy glasses or something

>>57943924
i see you are illiterate and didn't understand the implication of that post
have fun staying poor

>>57943946
I can't be clearer than that
maybe read my post again, I don't know
furthermore as far as wealth is concerned there's no fundamentally better alternative than bitcoin, because there's no harder asset than this

>>57944000
sorry you fell for the trap bro
nice trips

>>57944057
so, tell us what you're putting your money into if it's not into the hardest and most resilient asset currently existing?

>>57944125
blackrock shares, of course
with people like you still buying and fully convinced this is the best option right now

>>57944143
shares are gaining value only because fiat isn't filling the role it is supposed to, being money which is a store of value, since bitcoin isn't going away and will fill that role, it will suck all that wealth and everything that has been used as a way to mitigate inflation will deflate in value, probably at a slow pace rather than suddenly

>>57944185
exactly
thank you for proving my point

>>57944190
what is your point?

>>57943252
Can't be a conspiracy without people like you, God bless.

>>57930895
The French fries have silicon in them idiot.

>>57930692
THE JEWS ARE USING HAMMERS NOW THAT MEANS HAMMERS DONT HAMMER ANYMORE!!!

>>57944923
the issue is what you said is factually wrong, bitcoin isn't secured by PoS

>>57930692
why didnt they buy in 15 years ago

>>57930692
the point of btc was to MAKE ME MONEY
what you actually bought the "in it for the tech" rhetoric?
lmao

>>57945010
Because they wanted a challenge and they are massive trolls

>>57945021
What is your money worth if bitcoin becomes more valuable than “money”?

>>57932723
>Good luck extracting the 24 word seedphrase out of my brain
Neuralink would like to know your location

>>57945135
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking…

>>57941348
Wrong that is the thing that saved, the fork wars was the retardation that almost destroyed us

ITT: Bitcoin maximalists fighting over 2008 boomer tech coin

XRP will solve all these problems presented in this thread

>>57942433
Any asset (say gold) that hold its value relative to desirable commodities (say beef or housing) is called a "store of value".
You're saying bitcoin is a currency, fine. I pointed out why I think it will never be a widely adopted currency here >>57933335 and here >>57933606

>>57936382
>americans going to war to exterminate the white race for their jewish masters, round 3

The issue with Bitcoin (and crypto in general) is that the second shit goes nuclear bad, people inevidently panic and rush back to fiat. So it fails as a store of value since it is way too easy to cash out.

>>57945416
I don’t see Xrp being a store of value

>>57936477
literally me

>>57947684
then you haven't paying any attention at all. XRP's the only one in the top-100 making real profit(>100m$ per quarter)

bitcoin does not make any profit and also it's useless, carbon negative inefficient shitcoin from 2000's

>>57947105

No it doesn't. It's built far more value than any form of fiat in the past 8 years. Volatility =/= devaluation.

>>57936399
torture isn't something the US government really does to it's own citizens...

>>57930692
You can never beat them because they own all money and they control all markets.
You see, if people sold all btc because blackrock bought as a protest to devalue it, there would be institutions and people buying it because they are desperate to make bank.
You cant win if you go against the wave.

>>57930730
Welp. Guess we're back to fedbux and boomerrocks for store of value.

>>57930692
Btw blackrock is about to own everything, if you thought them owning stock market was monopoly you haven see anything yet. BTC will become centralized and they will own all of it. You will just borrow it to do transactions

if you want to fight the system you'll end up like monero
removed from most places
if govt can't control it, it will be removed
and you wouldn't be enjoying those gains in usd
so enjoy your btc and meme coins hains if that's what matters

bitcoin is basically over now. we already have hacked super currencies that dont even care about their financial values. I can literally say i have 100 bit coin and you just have to bite my ass over it. The fact is you don't even know what a bitcoin irl looks like, i can just make it up that i have 100's of them and low and behold my nft's prove it over yours. You're so pathetic and easy to fool. I might as well own your mother.

>>57949211
you convinced me bill, just sold all my bit corns for gold and silver

>>57930692
The only thing making gold priced at what it's priced at today, is that there is a roughly equal amount of people who want to buy it, and people who want to sell it.
If millions worldwide decided they need to buy gold now, it will pump, or if everyone wanted to sell, it will dump.
Everyone wants to buy bitcoin, because it keeps going up.

When bitcoin stops going up will people stop buying it? Or will people stop buying it forcing it to stop going up?
What defines the limit of how much a bitcoin should be worth?

>>57934529
>>57935826
>>57941986
Should I long 5$ wrenches?