/biz/ - Business & Finance

NEVER GAIN.

>>57912851
washing crypto is still legal, unlike stocks. you don't need to "evade" anything lil homie

>>57912851
1. Holding over a hear to lessen the blow
2. That's honestly it. This fucking jewish government taxes you with every other transaction

>>57912851
Never exchange, never cash out, and never send.

>>57912851
lie on your tax returns

>>57912851
Never sell. Just barter with your btc, as far as taxmen are concerned, btc is just moving from one wallet to another, not a taxable event

>>57912851

By all of us getting together into one tax payer demanding voice, world wide, and demanding these two things?

1) Women get NOTHING from divorce on men

2) People on welfare are DISALLOWED to have more than two children, so the system is sustainable, where people on welfare do not spawn more welfare people

This is the start to a fair civilization

Will only happen if you join me in these demands. I'm powerless to change this as a single tax payer, must be all of us tax payers

>>57913058
Some of the other advice is very obviously evading rather than avoiding, but maybe this one will leave some guessing.
Welp, it's evading too.
Buying stuff with crypto triggers a taxable event. It doesn't matter what the stuff is, or what the crypto is.
See https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/frequently-asked-questions-on-virtual-currency-transactions for the IRS explaining this in the plainest way they know how:
> Q16. Will I recognize a gain or loss if I exchange my virtual currency for other property?
> A16. Yes. If you exchange virtual currency held as a capital asset for other property, including for goods or for another virtual currency, you will recognize a capital gain or loss. For more information on capital gains and capital losses, see Publication 544, Sales and Other Dispositions of Assets.
>Q17. How do I calculate my gain or loss when I exchange my virtual currency for other property?
> A17. Your gain or loss is the difference between the fair market value of the property you received and your adjusted basis in the virtual currency exchanged. For more information on gain or loss from sales or exchanges, see Publication 544, Sales and Other Dispositions of Assets.
> Q18. How do I determine my basis in property I’ve received in exchange for virtual currency?
> A18. If, as part of an arm’s length transaction, you transferred virtual currency to someone and received other property in exchange, your basis in that property is its fair market value at the time of the exchange. For more information on basis, see Publication 551, Basis of Assets.

tl;dr: it's roughly equivalent to converting your crypto to dollars and buying the stuff with those dollars. Any appreciation on the crypto you used to buy stuff will increase your taxes.

Can I go to a country with no crypto taxes, live there for a while, open an account on a different exchange, transfer my crypto to that and then cash out in that country?

>>57913689
Yes you can. Even better if the USA doesn’t know what you own.

>>57912851
just pay your taxes, your literally can not avoid it.

>>57912851
move to a country where there are no capital gains tax on crypto.

My country is too retarded, as long as it's not fiat it's not taxable, so i just put it on anchored coins

>>57913689
yes.

>>57913689
Yes, but it's illegal. If you're open to doing something illegal that you probably won't get caught for anyway, then just straight up not filing taxes does that already.

you will want to move to florida or texas before cashing out

>>57913026
Does holding for over a year apply to stablecoins too?

>>57913906
the point of a stablecoin is to not change in value over time, so the capital gains/losses should be minimal, and the impact of being subject to short term capital gains vs long term capital gains taxes should be negligible.
However, if you're asking about what you held before you exchanged it for stablecoins, then those would also need to have been held for at least a year to qualify for the more favorable long term capital gain taxes.

>>57912851
>sell an NFT
>Buy it with diff address
boom it's like tornado cash baybee

Just move to an actual first world country that has no capital gains taxes (or one of the semi-developed money laundering destinations)
Only applies if you're a mutt or one of the other who-cares countries because not being able to go back ism't a huge loss, losing access to most of Europe would be kinda shit so rip all the EUfags

>>57912851
>don't trade
>don't sell
>take out reasonable loans against staked yield-bearing assets and pay them off in a timely manner

>>57912851
Depending how much you believe in the value of your crypto then never take out more than what you need or don't take it all out that year to stay in a lower tax bracket and start diversifying it.

>>57913843
Some states will now routinely attempt to collect their share of taxes on any asset appreciation that occurred while you were a resident of that state.
And by "some states", I mostly mean California, because literally every Californian has had the same genius idea of moving to a no-income tax state to cash out their equity/crypto/whatever.
California's pissed, and they're gunning for you.

>>57913841
But I don't have to file taxes until a taxable event occurs? Just owning crypto isn't one of them. Transferring to another wallet isn't either.

>>57912851
you can't. Lolberts will cheer on the end of government until they wake up one day and find themselves in haiti tier society where your neighbor is violating the NAP cause libertarian society is a fantasy. It ironically just leads back to a government and tax society cause dodging bullets from the militia down the street cause you slapped the wrong girls ass in the club is not a stable or fun society.

If I try to start making coffee, are they going to poison it?

>>57912851
In some countries you can swap crypto (usdt) for cash with minimal fees. You can then save up all your legit income and only spend in crypto.

That's basically what drug dealers do with cash.

Argentina is the only place I have found that is perfectly safe and highly liquid and anonymous, you can probably pay for an apartment in cash up to 100k with no issues. Years later you can sell that apt for double and transfer back to your country.

If anyone knows any other countries/cities with good crypto to cash physical places please let me know.

I heard BKK is not bad.

>>57912851
>send all profits from hot wallet to cex
>withdraw from cex to bank
>claim money was donated from an anonymous person
>????
>profit?
Why couldn't this work?

>>57913224
How about the IRS just figures out a system instead of making people file taxes. Then we dont have to question shit. CEX are sending out 1099-MISC.

>>57915060
>Jew CEX probably had KYC so they know its you
>Donations/Gifts are still taxable income for some reason

>try to use turbotax to report taxes like a good cattle
>imports transactions
>freaks out because I didn't keep everything on CEX
>go to add wallet to add my previous wallets
>only metamask listed
>uhhhhh
>doesn't just let me input the cost basis myself
>doesn't just let me add a wallet address myself
>go to IRS website to find the actual fucking form
>simple as can be, just list transactions and cost basis
>probably would have to add an attachment for the receipt from a bitcoin atm 7 years ago

I'm this close to just saying fuck it and filing manually, but I'll go find the receipt and try to add my own manual transaction for my previous purchases and see if that fixes it. Otherwise, I'm done with turbotax.

>>57912851
assuming you're a burger, study becoming a bona fide resident of Puerto Rico

>>57912851
i went to tijuanan mexico and made some random girl verify my account i made in 2017. now i trade with zero fees

DM me. if you want me to verify your account too.

>>57915080
Revamping the US tax system into something that'd make sense would:
1. be far beyond the IRS budget allocated by congress.
2. piss off all the wealthy bastards who pay their CPAs and tax attorneys very well to pay weirdly little taxes thanks to the convolutions of the system behind a fertile ground for interesting loopholes.
Cynical souls would be forgiven for thinking that the IRS beast is being starved on purpose to ensure this nonsense continues to benefit the wealthy few.

This is just another one of those things most civilized countries have figured out how to do correctly, but that the US somehow persists in doing in the worst way possible.

>>57915102
>>Jew CEX probably had KYC so they know its you
Well yea, the cex would be tied to you but, how would they be able to trace the hot wallet to you? Or just send the funds from your wallet to a relative's wallet who doesn't share the same last name.

>donations/gifts are still taxable
For real? Fuck that shit. If that's the case than disregard the above scenario

>avoid (not evade)
Why not both?
Your tax money provides weapons and free health care for an external occupying state anyway

>>57913224
>fair market value
no such thing

>>57914564
There are like 7 of these now that Poertugal is gone and half of them (Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands) require multiple millions to buy citizenship.

>>57915478
The reason why the IRS verbiage is so damn hard to read and parse is because they choose specific words that mean specific things, as defined by them elsewhere.
So yes, there's absolutely such a thing in IRS-land, regardless of the common sense meaning of any of those words.

i accidentally converted some fetch to usdc and now it says i made money FUCK

>>57915609
that's my point. zogbux have no inherent value, so "fair market value" means whatever they want it to, i.e nothing

>>57913689
Not if you are a US citizen. The US taxes citizens around the world even if they are residents of another nation. You can offset US taxes with foreign taxes but if your foreign country doesn't tax crypto gains at all, you'll have to pay the IRS up to 20%.
First $80k is tax free for long term holdings. 15% for a while after that and anything over like $400k is 20%. Welcome to the land of the free! Just wait until they pass a wealth tax law and come after your unrealized gains too! ;)

>>57917014
>Just wait until they pass a wealth tax law and come after your unrealized gains too! ;)
What's stopping the ordinary citizen from stabbing these lawmakers?

>>57913768
its literally impossible to calculate when you do a bunch of degen swaps. fuck that. I'm not even going to try.

>>57915102
yeah but you could hide all your degen swaps this way couldn't you?

>>57917246
it seems impossible but i got all caught up on mine and its not that bad
its as retarded as it sounds though, unironically making spreadsheets about how you sold andrew tate token to buy hitler cockfart inu

>>57912851
Instead of trading shitcoins buy bitcoin and never sell.

Instead of cashing out borrow fiat against your bitcoin.

>>57917285
I once heard Gongo George say he uses an LLC to somehow decrease both his short term and long term gains taxes by a lot. You know anything about this?

>>57913768
Fuck you glownigger

>>57915038
You can buy real estate with BTC in several countries

>>57917285
I actually used some crypto service that did it for me for like $50 a couple years ago. Just plug in all your wallets and Cex's you used. Nice thing about it is it deducted all the trading fees which helped a lot. I've done a lot more degen trading this year already though. Considering my options.

>>57913224
If 12 months ago I brought 0.5 Bitcoin for $30,000, and then 6 months ago I bought another 0.5 Bitcoin for $60,000, and then one month later I spend $10,000 dollars worth of that Bitcoin on something, how to calculate capital gains tax on this spent Bitcoin?
The real scenarios are significantly more complicated than this of course, with DCA'ing leading to tons of transactions at different prices.

>>57917306
no idea
im in a couple real small crypto groups where some of the more big shot guys talk about having LLCs to help with crypto expenses, though- so im sure theres something there

>>57917334
true, i used koinly a couple years back and it worked well. especially for just trading
i just started doing weird LP/staking/locking/whatever shit and it got all confused and i had to start manually messing with everything, though, so i just decided to start doing it completely manual after that point

>>57913768
good goyim

>>57917367
You need to pick an identification method for the Bitcoin you're spending.
As I understand it, it needs to be the same identification method you use across your investments, so you don't get to cherry pick the method that most favor each individual trade. Pick one, and stick to it for any given year, or the IRS will make a frowny face.
That method will determine the cost basis of the coins you're spending.
Common methods are:
- LIFO (last in, first out), which would have you use the $60k cost basis (and trigger short term capital tax)
- FIFO (first in, first out), which would have a $30k cost basis, and trigger the gentler long term cap tax.
- Weighted average, which I guess would map to a 45k cost basis, short term cap tax.

With tradfi brokerages, they'll usually let you pick that setting somewhere and do all the calculations for you so when they file their 1099s, it's already sorted out.
I haven't seen a crypto exchange that bothers to try to make any of this easier so far. But maybe they're out there.

>>57915191
It's because it's an industry. Meaning up the tax code would result in tens, maybe even hundreds, of thousands of people in the tax industry losing their job. Case and point there was much screeching about how bad the Tax Code revision/simplification on deductions was in 2017 was despite the fact it made taxes easier for 90% of Americans and yielded a 30% revenue increase over the last couple years.

>>57917184
Thats the beauty of it. Absolutely nothing

>>57917184
In the case of democrats, who are the ones who will always vote to raise taxes on you, guns. Funnily enough, they vote to ban guns (and probably other weapons) from the hands of the citizenry while being surrounded by armed guards at all times. Funny isn't it?

>>57912851
GLOWIE THREAD Also hire an accountant numbnuts. Only retards don't.

Read the crypto regulations. They are small enough you can actually follow them unlike the general federal tax code.

>>57912851

First of all, find out if your country/state allows you to gift money to family members tax free, if that is the case, find a family member you deeply and sincerely trust. Then "gift" them the crypto, get them to sell it and cash out, then "gift" you the cash back. Maybe let them have 5% of your gains considering you just saved 40% on (((tax))). If this doesn't work, just pay your taxes and move on, at least you'll be able to sleep at night.

>>57912851

>>57913224
Who's talking about buying? I give some guy I know btc, he just happens to give me his old car. Nobody's BUYING anything just two friends making gifts

>>57914848
Fuck that socialist shit hole. I hope they go bankrupt trying to recover taxes from people that left.
Instead of trying to think of ways to attract people(like lowering taxes and stopping the handouts to the homeless), they just pull some BS trying to collect money from people that left.

>>57918429
Gifting crypto is a taxable event

>>57918915
What if anon just happened to leave his private key in view of the other guy, and the other guy just happened to leave the keys to the car? All in Minecraft, of course.

Don't sell. If you need worthless government toilet paper, take a loan out on some of your stack, pay off the loan with a another loan

>>57913085
Slavemind. Just ignore memetic parasites and stack sats. Problem solved in-the-limit.

Go to Qatar, Islamic laws are against Jewish taxes

>>57912851
USDT to hold gains

ETH to exchange at sites that trade them for gift cards

OR

Crypto To Cash ATM's

>>57912851
Buy a supercar with BTC for $1. Leave a generous tip in XMR

>>57920385
>USDT to hold gains
Eroded by inflation driven by enormous Jewish money-printing. Also propping up dollar hegemony.