/biz/ - Business & Finance

countries on the left side are close to / literally in recession rn
And they have shit economic outlook in the past 10 years as well

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/debt-to-gdp-ratio-by-country

>>57710474
its incredible isnt it?
the US is in such a bad shape, they now have to pay higher interest rates than Italy and Greece

Until it blows up in your face, debt is wealth.
When it does blow up, the people creating this debt can just flee to Israel, or another fledgling country where they'll do it all over again. And the taxpayers will be left to clean it up for a few centuries.

>>57710543
a good economy automatically produces a surplus
the american economy is doing horribly

The American economy is strong BECAUSE it's generating debt. Our entire problem here in Germany (can't speak for other countries) is being completely allergic to countercyclical spending -- a few years of Keynesian spending would reap insane dividends for decades to come but the boomers who rule our senate won't do it.
Ask yourself why you need to le ebic troll about the US economy secretly being bad when every measure shows it's doing incredibly well and these debt-reducing countries have NOTHING to show for it.

>projected
is everyone here retarded?
Just look up the actual numbers and you can see it was completely wrong kek

Triffins dilemma.
Look it up.

>>57711192
Fuck off Habeck

>>57711197
the actual numbers?

>>57711429
Your charts are irrelevant.

>>57711429
now do the other countries who were projected to decrease their ratio
do Germany kek

>>57710416
Do you know what getting in debt means? On a personal level, when you get in debt, it's because you deferred pain (paying money) to the future for enjoyment in the present.
What happens when a national government keeps going deeper into debt? It's letting its current constituents enjoy a frivolous lifestyle and growth, at the expense of some future generation when it comes time to foot the bill.
US "growth" is temporary in this sense - the bill WILL be paid at some point, which will affect their growth at that time.

>>57711523
The US is an excemption from that rule.
See >>57711214 and >>57711454
I would agree IF there was a successor to the US Dollar. But there isn't.

>>57711523
>govt debt is just like household debt
Dumb monetarist

>>57711192
>debt is... LE GOOD
Yeah, it's good in the same way taking on leverage in a raging bull market is good. But eventually the house collapses, roughly every 100 years or so. We're not too far off from it happening again.

>>57710401
it is
>>57711555 see here for proof

>>57711554
Dollar house is not collapsing.
Bitcoin is fueling Tether and Tether is fueling the Dollar.
The US has an unlimited credit card.

>>57711583
read ray dalio's book and get back to me sweaty xoxo

>>57711634
>ray dalio
He didn't foresee the Fed's moves. It could have happened but too little, too late.

>>57711539
>I would agree IF there was a successor to the US Dollar. But there isn't.
Who was Bitcoin?

>>57711703
bitcoin can never replace fiat, running an entire economy off of it would be retarded

>>57711703
Bitcoin is Tethers bitch.
Tether is the Feds bitch.
See >>57711583

>>57711729
It's really weird that you should say that considering that USD is down like 99.9996% against BTC since 2010.
>>57711715
Fiat is a relatively recent phenomenon in human history. You can see that US living standards have been on the down trend ever since going off the gold standard. Don't forget US citizens live in literal pods now, while their streets are overrun with homeless people and drug addicts who shit everywhere.
Question for you, could society function on a gold standard? Keep in mind fiat is <100 years old. Do you think the year 0 to the year 1900 was a period of abysmal economic growth because there was no money printer (fiat) back then? Did the beauty of the renaissance era in the Mediterranean need a money printer? If you think society can prosper with a hard money, eg. a gold-standard, why do you think that it can't function on an even better standard, a bitcoin-standard? As the basis for a monetary supply, bitcoin functions even better than gold.

>>57711870
The only thing that matters is volume - not price.
Bitcoin is up vs dollars but you still have to use dollars to buy oil.
Wake me up when you have found an alternative to US currency to buy that black gold.

>>57711891
Gold is Kang and its not even close

>>57711147
By that logic the American economy hasn’t been good since about 1820 (whenever we were last debt free)

The US print the global reserve currency. They couldn't care less about debt.

>>57712190
Gold is not a currency. Demurrage costs are high.
The only thing it does is that it builds trust in a countries currency.
You would never use gold for your daily groceries.
You can use it as a store of value, independent from currencies, however.
It's stateless and doesn't consume energy, that's the advantage over crypto.
Crypto is better to get over borders but that will be done soon. Most people that wanted to move have already done so.
You see, there are many pros and cons for different asset classes. Best to mix and match as you see fit for your situation.

By the way: look up "Gresham's law".

>>57712249
utter nonsense

>>57712323
Surplus=/= no debt

US hasn’t been debt free since the early 1800’s. American economy has been running on fumes since the Jackson administration according to you.

>>57712251
This. Who gives a fuck about debt when you can print the money to pay it back with.

GDP is a measure of expenses, not productivity.

>>57712490
There is a huge difference between having low debt and high debt
Youre just utterly retarded

>>57712630
Depends on who you owe the debt to.

>>57711192
The American economy is shot for anyone living here. Rick people like it but consumer debt is high as fuck because a lot of people can’t afford life otherwise. Not to mention how fucked the housing market is.

>>57712630
People in every era thought that American debt was out of control. It’s only low in comparison to what we have today, but we had loads of debt after things like the Civil War or WW1. It’s literally the same as you saying wages were low 120 years ago versus today because the average man only made $2000/yr.

>>57711583
that would be very convienient for all the bankers

>>57712712
no, debt was never this high during peace time
youre just lying nonstop

>>57712722
Show me the alternative to US Dollar.
What is it?
Consider these:
>>57711729
>>57711891
>>57712291
Rubles? Yuan?
Come on.

>>57710401
Our government is literally evil and is funding wars on every continent

>muh debt to GDP ratio
>not taking actual wealth, means of production, infrastructures, everything that makes a country what it is into consideration
lol, lmao even. There's a reason a bank will still give a loan to someone that has a 1$ symbolic salary, but has a shitload of actual tangible assets, be it factories, stocks, plain cash, whatever.

>>57712787
I know, Pidorbro, it truly is a shame, our government could use our money for greater good, like, I wish I had drinkable tape water.

>>57712656
>The American economy is shot for anyone living here.
no it's not, you guys have a very poor bottom 5% of society, every one else is objectively better off than their counterparts anywhere else in the world other than maybe Norway or Switzerland
> consumer debt is high as fuck because a lot of people can’t afford life otherwise
who gives a fuck? worst case you guys have incredibly generous personal bankruptcy laws. and consumer debt has nothing to do with national debt
>Not to mention how fucked the housing market is.
objectively far better than anywhere else in the Anglosphere and much of Europe, plus financing is much easier in the US. more crocodile tears from Americans larping as being so much poorer and having it so much worse than everyone else. boo hoo whitey

>>57711523
>It's letting its current constituents enjoy a frivolous lifestyle and growth, at the expense of some future generation when it comes time to foot the bill.
Dullard. You can't ACTUALLY borrow from the future, when you loan money into existence you've just created a new fraudulent claim on existing resources, the debt is framed as a future problem so you don't pay attention to the actual real time consequences of monetary expansion.

>>57712712
>it was always this bad
wrong

>>57712787
kek americans truly are the dumbest motherfucking spoiled brats on the planet

>>57710401
you can have the strongest economy but still see debt to gdp if you put everything in the hands of retards, freeloaders, retards voting for freeloaders, and freeloaders voting for retards

>>57711540
it does actually exactly work the same way, they can just print money and spread the costs to the entire economy via inflation

>>57713512
all started when they elected a black man

>>57712787
>doesn’t understand Marshall plan global

Kys

>>57713591
It obviously stated with Reagan if you look closely

>>57713726
It started when the Dem voter base of foreigners and negros could over power the white vote, which was when they elected king negro
Now its just a swift downhill run
You look at voting records of some of these red "strongholds" and you see a steady increase of D voters, its over for republicans, its the future they chose

>>57713743
look at the image
the term "debt doesnt matter" came from Reagan

>>57713743

information bump

>>57715955
this bump is about as useful as a bag of dicks on a hen night and a bag of dicks during a gay pride parade together get rich quick food is the future not information and it's about time you woke up to that i hate you you're dumb

>>57715973
Its important to know that american growth is entirely build on deficit spending

>>57716015
Everybody knows that since the 70s.

>>57710401
the ability to borrow shows strong economy, because lenders don't worry about their principals. I am talking about currency risk rather than default here.

>>57710401
You forget the american economy is also swindled by macroeconomic factors, just like the crypto market when a big storm is a brewing you can have most coins growing at a steady pace and then boom, election year and suddenly michael obama is the most profitable candidate making all the tokens related to the elections (trump and big mike) extremely bullish. Imagine the contrary happening to the us right now but with the war in the middle east and ukraine

>>57710401
>>57710416
If you spend your bailout money on the pensions of elderly people there will be no real economic growth. If you spend government benefits on niggers and foreigners there will be no real economic growth.

Millennials are the largest generation ever, if the boomer-run government actually wanted growth they would do like Reagan did for them 40 years ago and push some government cheese their way. But boomers would rather strangle society and then seethe that it's unfair their house of cards fell apart, than cease bailing themselves out like Saturn devouring his children.

>>57717116
>Millennials are the largest generation ever
Yeah, but many of them are here illegally and don't pay taxes.

>>57717378
Non-citizens are not included in geny.

>>57717383
Bullshit. We don't ask on the US census if they're illegal or not.

>>57718789
Illegals don't take the census, r-tard.

>>57719540
Yes they do you sub 100 IQ mongrol. Anyone living in the US gets the forms. That's why Democrats are encouraging mass illegal immigration to their states. It gives them more votes in the electoral college.

>>57710401

>>57711523
>when it comes time to foot the bill.
Lol
LMAO, even.
The US is currently insolvent

Have you guys ever been to the neoliberal subreddit? They say that the economy is doing very well and that a land value tax will solve most issues, such as housing. It seems that their platform is irrefutable.

>>57722357
They just need to slash some social security.

>>57712885
>more crocodile tears from Americans larping as being so much poorer and having it so much worse than everyone else. boo hoo whitey
I haven't seen a doctor in 15 years and I'm uninsured shitting blood and someone in my family also uninsured had a massive heart attack years ago and got billed 120,000$ for a 3 day hospital stay and 2 low invasive stents and has credit collectors hounding them.

>>57711454
What’s the point of this chart
I have a low iq and don’t get what it means or which argument this supports

>>57722392
If only we would
Just tell boomers to get a job and pull themselves up by their bootstraps