/biz/ - Business & Finance

Just pay it off faster and you pay less interest

I'm too much of an autist to deal with mortgages or any kind of multi decade long debt, I'll buy my small house with straight up cash solely because I'll sleep way better knowing I don't have to think about how to constantly micromanage paying someone bit by bit every month for the next 30 damn years.

I know it's financially retarded and that having access to more liquid cash is better, but my autist brain simply refuses the idea of a mortgage to the core of my being. Here's the money in total, give me my house and leave me alone, please and thank you.

>>57689812
heh, that will be 12k a year in property taxes plus tip.

>>57689830
>12k property taxes
Which state and how much does the home cost

>>57689700
>Rent keeps going up
>Mortgage payment stays the same
>In the clown world era when governments are going to just keep fucking printing money

>>57689812
Don't say such things around finance bros and boomers. They'll always cite the 3% mortgage and how "the market" has 10% returns historically so you're better off never paying off your mortgage and investing for 7% profit. Never fucking mind that over any time period after paying all that interest, paying all the taxes on any gains, that the market has ups and downs, life has ups and downs, you end up over 10 years coming out ahead like 1-2%. Its so much fucking work to get a tiny amount of money.

Got into it with some boomers about $100k cash. Pay off a 3% mortgage or invest it is the scenario. Half of all boomers would say minimums on mortgage and invest the rest. Disregarding the facts that over 10 years of paying off that mortgage and overall gains, you're coming out ahead like $8000 AFTER 10+ YEARS. Holy fucking dogshit just get rid of it and have no debt. Just do the opposite of what boomers and finance bros do.

Theres plenty of trendy phrases like beating the spread, putting that money to work, and beating the market while they're still in fucking debt making interest payments in their 60s and 70s. What the fuck is wrong with people?

You can do it though man, I wouldn't wait to get a house because housing prices at times increase faster than you can earn and stack cash generally (unless you've got a really high paying job about triple or more national average). Get a 10 or 15 year mortgage and just double up the principle payments. Toss any extra cash at it too. Pay off your house in 5-10 years, pay $5000 in total interest, then you only owe property tax and insurance once a year forever.

>>57689931
Dollar deflated 25% from 1926 to 1933.

>>57689700

The idea of the property ladder is once you've finished or almost finished paying off you're house, you sell it AND take out another mortgage so you can move up. Then once your kids have moved out, you sell your big house and buy something small, and you have a big chunk of cash you can live off for a few more years.

If you just rent your whole life, when you reach retirement age, you don't have that big chunk of cash AND you're still paying rent which is likely going to be 60-80% of your monthly allowance.

>>57689700
It’s called amortization. The banks spread your principal and interest across the loan term in a way that allows you to pay the same number every month. But if they didn’t front load the interest in your amortization schedule then the banks would have no incentive to lend since people don’t ever keep the loan for the full 30 years. They either refinance or sell the house so the bank wants to make sure they’re getting something out of lending you hundreds of thousands of dollars. For potentially 30 years. If you want to pay down your principal even more then pay more than the minimum payment amount. Everything else goes toward your principal balance and gets subtracted from your final payments, effectively shortening your term.

>>57689700
In 30 years the value of that house will have at least quadrupled and offset the money paid for interest, maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc. You and the rest of the Jews really are trying to convince zoomers to rent forever lmao

>>57690003
>Then once your kids have moved out, you sell your big house and buy something small
Theres a weird trend of boomers simply not doing that en masse anymore. Some are upgrading to bigger and more expensive houses for some reason. Like people in their 70s taking out another 30 year mortgage for $400k or whatever to have more land, bigger house, nicer house, etc. My own boomer mother did this. She lives alone and built some $800k house and guest house, still has $300k left on the loan and at least once a year does some $20-30k "renovation" like adding a pergola, hot tub, or barn thing. Complains I don't come home often enough to help her with her property because its becoming too much for her as she gets older. Refuses to sell it, refuses to stop adding bullshit, refuses to live anywhere near where her kids live.

>>57689931
This is true in a longer timeframe but is essentially moot when the gap between market rent and mortgage is this wide. If you bought the peak of '82, rent didn't catch up until ~2000. If you bought in '07, rent didn't catch up until '20. And looking at this chart, I can't even imagine how long it will take for rent to hit peak mortgage bubble payments unless something wild happens to the rental market. Rent has a steady upwards trend so when is it going to hit $2800?

And this is a separate argument from "housing as investment." You are addressing the practical concern of monthly payments and it makes sense. And others in this thread have the idea of paying off the mortgage as quickly as possible to remove payments altogether. There are certainly different strategies. I specifically think treating a house as an investment is dubious.

>>57690003
So I put $700,000+ (principal, interest, taxes, repairs, improvements) into a $300,000 house over 30 years, then sell it for $700,000 and buy a smaller house for $300,000, then live off of the $400,000 profit, leaving my children a $300,000 small house which they will just sell because they are on the "property ladder" themselves by the time of my death. And this is all contingent on market prices continuing to increase exponentially with no crashes at the key moments when I need to sell.

>>57690031
What about
>>57689700
>when the value of his home increases, the market price of a replacement home to move into also increases, meaning it's a lateral move at best

>>57690107
And I should add, if the value of the dollar has fallen to the point my house is worth double or triple, then my $400,000 profit buys even less because the cost of living increases. So my entire plan is to burn everything to keep up with inflation as I slowly downsize my life and die with $0. That's my "investment strategy."

>>57689812
Same. Bought a small $200k condo outright instead going overboard with a mortgage and big house like so many others. I sleep much better at night and get to invest a huge chunk of my paycheck instead of having to pay interest

>>57689812
Same, I want enough money to buy a modest home outright and keep investing in divvies and crypto.

>>57690107
>renting a tiny apartment is equivalent to buying a large house on land
lol, lmao even

>>57689938
Good post.
It's not just only a tiny amount of money your gaining doing this retarded "don't pay off your debt" shit, you are also taking on a huge amount of risk. Imagine having hundreds of thousands of debt, and then any money you do have is stuck in the stock market. Now imagine there is another 2008 style crash and your real estate value AND your stocks dump. Good luck holding that bag lol.

>>57690323
You can only rent an apartment the same way you can only buy a mansion.

I thought all the pro investors got HELOC mortgages on SFH in order to rent them out? But now you're saying the average rent rate only refers to apartments? Please explain.

>>57689812
is autist synonymous with retarded, among zoomers?
you are using the word wrong.

Mortgages are fine if you know what the fuck you are getting into.
>> understand the deal.
>> understand yourself and your habits.

If you are comfortable with both, you take the deal.
Straight up cash is retarded, when gov is inflating away your money. There is a sweet spot, where mortgage is golden. It is up to you to figure that out.

>>Here's the money in total, give me my house and leave me alone, please and thank you.
This is never going to be the case, the more you look away, the more it fucks you up.
Mortgage ain't the only thing that is hanging over you.
Tax, property appraisals, repair, yadda yadda. list goes on.
If you are not on top of these things, it will shit up your life. The sensible approach is to spend some time every month, being on top of things. You will never be able to just own your house and be left alone, this is how you overpay and become behind on things.
Freedom comes with a cost.

People are trolling by saying buying a house is a scam. Simply look at cash out every month paying rent vs a mortgage. Rent is unpredictable and unlikely to ever go down, mortgage is predictable and only slightly goes up with taxes/ insurance.

The amortization schedule is unattractive if you look at the first 10 years, but what people never consider in these conversations is- where the fuck are you going to live.

It’s simply cope all the way down, but yes I suppose you could in theory find a better use of your capital and outscale housing gains.

What I tell my friends to help them understand, is paying your mortgage is basically just depositing money into your house as a bank account. With rent you will never get that money back, with a house you can.

>>57690362
Your thoughts are fucking retarded

>>57690347
I have to point that out to everyone refusing to pay their mortgage off because they're mathematically coming out ahead a couple hundred bucks every month. I ask them what they did during 2008 when all stocks took a dive. They just said they waited 10 years for everything to catch up and be back in the black. I cannot imagine hoping the finance fairy rescues me for a DECADE as opposed to having no debt and not really caring what the stock market is doing. Yeah line go up is good, but also when on-paper losses happen that don't directly affect me I can still sleep with a roof over my head stress free.

>>57689812
This. Having a mortgage means the bank owns the house and you are at their mercy. If a recssion hits, you lose your job and stop paying them, they take “your” house back. No idea how people manage to feel at ease in this situation. Having your own house paid off and having a secure castle of your own that nobody can take away from you even if you lose your job is an incredible feeling

>>57690414
>2.8% mortgage
>5.1%+ money market
Its a no brainer. If money markets (FDIC) evaporate you have much bigger problems than not paying your mortgage

>>57690387
>Tax, property appraisals, repair, yadda yadda. list goes on.
A friend of mine experienced this first hand. She bought a house because tired of renting, didn't really understand a 1-year incentive to help pay high property taxes lumped in with the mortgage. Year 2 she got hit with a normal level property tax amount and couldn't afford to pay it. Also in year 2 her fence was blown over facing a multi-thousand dollar repair. She was fuckin beside herself because she had to in under 6 months come up with like $6000 knowing she was already spending over 50% of her paycheck on regular mortgage payments.

I make almost double what she does and in a similar size house. I was stressed for her knowing she probably had 100% of her income spent for a solid 8 months in front of her if nothing else happened to her.

Its not hard if you just forecast for shit like that happening, but 95% of new homeowners don't realize the possible shitstorms that can rain down on you at any time.

>>57690461
home ownership makes literally no sense unless you are
A) a handyman
B) mega rich
single roasties have no business owning anything larger than a dog house

>>57690407
Don't get distracted by the mention of HELOC, I was being flippant. The point is that rent obviously doesn't exclusively mean apartment. Many people rent SFH. You can't take figures of average rent rates and say "LOL THAT MEANS APARTMENT I WANT TO LIVE IN HOUSE." like >>57690323. His was a disingenuous reply and doesn't address the fact that there is a gap between rents and mortgage payments that isn't closed for over a decade, and many people moves every 5-10 years in adulthood due to various circumstances - right when you're at the worst part of the amortization schedule, and not yet closing the payment gap. It's no secret that this time period is when lenders love to call you up and discuss a refi, they never want you to escape that first 1/3 of a mortgage, and most never do.

>>57690521
the vast majority of rental units are apartments and the vast majority of purchased homes are SFH but by all means keep muddying the water just to make a nonsensical point to cope with not owning anything

>>57690003
>property ladder
Smoothbrain. RE is a horrible investment, if your house is a significant fraction of your networth you WILL die poor.

>>57690022
>pay 30 years of interest for a 20 year loan
Best goy.

>>57690545
The graph I provided showing rent vs. buy monthly payments is only SFH and I have only referenced figures from that graph. AGAIN, someone else mentioned apartments to derail the conversation and it worked.

>>57690646
Renting a SFH is uncommon and it typically applies to smaller houses with no land. Your comparison is useless

>>57690685
>"It's cheaper to rent a red car than to buy a red car."
>"YEAH BUT MOST PEOPLE DRIVE BLUE CARS AND THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE FOUR WHEEL DRIVE, YOUR COMPARISON IS USELESS"

>>57690031
>In 30 years the value of that house will have at least quadrupled and offset the money paid for interest, maintenance, repairs, upgrades, etc. You and the rest of the Jews really are trying to convince zoomers to rent forever lmao
If your duct taped dilapidated shit wood house built in the 1920s has quadrupled, that means the only way to "make" money will be either moving to a 3rd world country or becoming neighbors with Cletus in the trailer park.

>>57690516
The first 3 lines are untrue. Roasties being dumb and not thinking 6 months into the future isn't exclusive to roasties. In my line of work I've encountered these people across the country, from all walks of life, all ages and demographics. Ever meet someone in their 50s threatening lawsuits because they couldn't afford a $1000 repair to their house while walking around their Mercedes and Jaguar in the garage? I have. Ever have someone try to belittle you by saying they make more money in a week than I make all year demanding that I fork over $5000 to fix one of their problems because they don't have that kind of money available? I have.

There are morons out there that have the illusion of wealth, like filthy stinkin rich but cannot pay for lunch today. But again, that includes 20 year old influencers, middle aged people trying to raise a family, and boomers in their 70s.

>>57689830
On a 4 million dollar home

>>57690726
your chart does not control for square footage and acreage

>>57690807
>acreage
0.0000001% of SFH has acreage, 80% of SFH sits on 5k cucklots, with most of the rest sitting on even smaller lots, second, if you'd have purchased a house on acreage (which you clearly haven't) you'd know that you can't use a traditional mortgage for most of these properties has most of the value will be in the land and a bank won't finance them as the mortgage can't be bundled into a MBS

>>57691051
So do you have any cope about square footage or was that nonsense all you got?

Buying (ie renting a house from a bank) makes absolutely no sense in the current year.

You'll make it a lot faster if you rent.

Rentoid cope thread

>>57691125
where does my $1400/mo 2.8% interest mortgage fit into your chart? Never selling btw

>>57691199
Priced in to the purchase price.

>>57691112
Square footage does not meaningfully correlate with property value expect on the extremes

>>57689700
with renting you are pissing your rent down the drain. with mortgage you are pissing the interest portion of your payment, your property taxes, your maintenance costs, your HOA, your amortized closing costs and the opportunity cost of your down payment not being invested in the S&P down the drain. Do the math, if A < B then rent, otherwise buy. If they are similar, then buy because it's nice to have a place that's yours and you can do what you want with.

NYT has a nice calculator for this. Don't overcomplicate it, it's just math in the end. So long as it covers your needs, do what's cheapest and be done with it.

>>57691199
>where does my $1400/mo 2.8% interest mortgage fit into your chart?
The past. You did not take your mortgage when there was a substantial mortgage premium, why encourage anons to make poor financial decisions?

>>57691266
Checked and truth.

>>57691125
who the fuck is getting an $1100 mortgage in Y23 with 6%+ rates? Did they only survey the detroit metro area?

>>57691208
So are you renting something nicer?
>>57691268
I would never encourage anyone to buy a house, everyone who should be buying a house intrinsically understands that.

Is this the rentoid seethe thread? You should have bought when rates were low, chud. Now you're priced out like all the other mongrels and losers. You will likely NEVER be able to afford your own property and will be subject to increasing rent prices while your wages stagnate. When you're forced to rent in the ghetto so you can still afford groceries I'll be selling my house and using the equity to upgrade to a newer, bigger house in a better area.
t. sub 3% mortgage making $150k salary which i gamble on shitcoins

>>57690572
Team up with an intelligent woman, join your incomes and save.
Get a mortgage and buy the cheapest little place you can in an average area.
After a year you have some equity and your salary has increased. Sell house and buy a bigger house in better area.
After a year equity has gone up and salary increased.
Sell house and buy 4x 2bd units. Live in 1 and manage the others.
The rent income pays the mortgage and then some. All the money you used to pay on the mortgage now goes into a savings account.
Financial success.

>>57690461
these are the risks associated with owning a mortgage, and anyone who is put into straits over $6k shouldn't be buying a home. But the middleclass ignores this and dumps every dollar they have to get into a home because "that's how you generate wealth".

>>57691297
Read again, that's 1100 per week.

I used my VA home loan to buy a home with no down payment, no PMI, a 2.75% interest rate for 30 years, and it's been "valued" at about 80k more than I bought it for three years later. Life is pretty easy :)

>>57690388
this
>>57690419
No it doesn't. The bank owns a dollar denominated cash flow. You own the real asset. The whole "bank owns the house" is so fucking retarded, its a lien. Huge difference. Its like being long a stock and saying the brokerage owns the stock because you have margin. Makes no sense.
>>57689812
>I'm too much of an autist to deal with mortgages or any kind of multi decade long debt
Except you'll pay rent for decades... Funny how rentlets will add up 30 years of mortgage payments and call it debt but don't act like they won't be paying rent for 30+ years. Just because the rent will constantly increase at an exponential rate so its impossible to add up doesn't make it any less of a long term burden.
>>57689977
>muh great depression!
The fed's entire philosophy is based on preventing that exact thing from happening. Buying will ALWAYS be better long term because you are liability matching your need for housing by owning a house, and shorting depreciating dollars. Renting is shorting a real asset, and since you will always need a home, renting is lifelong debt. Its a psyop to make you think its not debt, they will keep printing more and more money, transferring your wealth to the asset owners incl. landlords and homeowners.

>>57689700
How do you rentoids cope with the fact you don't own the most basic human essential and instead waste your money each month to some landlord who can just evict you because you were less than a week late for rent?

>>57691334
>>57691147

People are trying to have an actual conversation of substance on this garbage board full of jeet nonsense and you two faggots are trying to disrupt it.

Drink bleach immediately.

>>57689830
I pay a little bit over $6k a year on property taxes which is still less than what you would pay for rent

should I still get a mortgage if I have the money to buy it upfront?

>>57691478
The weirder part is when you suggest having $5000 in a bank account doing nothing, they act like saving $5000 is harder than peace in the middle east. Like dude, any time something goes wrong with a house, its a minimum $1000. AC going out in August can be anywhere from $2000 to $15,000 depending how hard the AC guy wants to fuck you. Oh the fuckin oven is broken and its $2000 to repair or buy a new one? Just slap that on a credit card and pay 25% interest for a few months because you're busy going to the vape store and planning your next $10,000 vacation and shopping for a new car because your 3 year old car might need repairs soon.

You have to be prepared for disaster, and 50% of Americans cannot come up with $400 cash for basic shit they NEED like for a flat tire, water heater, or random bill they must pay. That shit stresses me out so bad and so many people just ignore it like it simply cannot happen to them and if it does its someone elses fault and they'll pay for it.

>>57689700
>>refinances/moves every 7-10 years
if you have to start your cope with an assumption that isn't guaranteed or even likely to be true you should probably realize it's just a cope

>>57690046
Boomer does rhyme with consumer

>>57690107
The data is really market specific. I bought 7 years ago and 3 bedroom apartments are close to what I pay in mortgage and equivalent homes 200 to 500 more to rent.

>>57691799
Go ahead and search how long people stay on average at a given address.

>>57691266
This. There is no universal answer and the math, plus the intangibles, will change depending on where you are in life.

I bought 7 years ago because I was starting a family so the idea of potentially having to move every 3 years (average national tenancy length) wasn't something I wanted to deal with plus the house I found was 10 minutes from my parents which is nice for a variety of reasons.

>>57691738
>my only contribution to this actual conversation of substance will be to tell people to kill themselves.

>>57690107
>>57691859
The charts retarded. First of all, its linear, it should be logarithmic, that move in the late 70s is a lot bigger than the recent move. It shows the cost to buy always being higher except for 2010-2020, which makes sense because you lock in that cost for 30 years and it decreases over time as your interest proportion goes down, so the current gap is not even that large, just looks big because of the linear scale. Plus inflation just happened, its more likely rent spikes to catch up rather than home prices coming down significantly like 2008 which was deflationary, not inflationary.

>>57690594
he literally just fucking explained that if you have the money to pay it off that you can pay early and not get jewed by high interest...

>>57691125
It's 1795$ a month to get a single bedroom near the industrial park where I work in Seattle.
I'm not moving out of my moms, fuck the realestate market.

>>57691380
>Financial success
Smoothbrain. RE always declines in real terms as RE has moderate to high monetary impedance. Anything that reduces the fraction of income directed towards low impedance assets sets you back
>>57692139
Paying more doesn't reduce the amortized interest, you fucking retard

>be poor
>be shit at math
>someone should do something about the "unfair" terms I voluntarily agreed to!!!

Einstein was right, you either earn compound interest or you pay it.

>>57691747
No, unless your willing to invest the difference and think you can beat your mortgage rate.

>>57689700
Yeah buying a home sucks

You should rent my place from me instead

>>57690594
You don’t pay pure principle on your final payments dumb ass. You’re paying interest all the way till the end. If you pay more principal you pay less interest over time.

>>57690031
>this
Rentoids deserve the pod filled with low income degens and migrants

>>57692702
Do you have knowledge about investor / shareholder stuff, i have a specific question ?

>>57689830
you have to pay property taxes when you have a mortgage

>>57692072
>its more likely rent spikes to catch up rather than home prices coming down
The issue with rent hikes is they're tied to wages. Not home prices. I have also been hearing investors over built multi family in the past three years. These two things are whats putting headwinds on rents.

>>57689830
>heh, that will be 12k a year in property taxes plus tip
In what country do you not have to pay property tax just because you have a mortgage? What retarded system is this?

>>57693562
>>57693495
A side-question for you, since you obviously know your stuff. Maybe you're familiar with it too:
At the big gaming companies like MS, Ubisoft, EA
Could I also participate as a private investor? If so, what is the minimum amount required?

>>57693495
Rent is based on supply and demand, wages are just one of many components of demand.

>>57693562
Everyone pays property tax, even renters indirectly because the landlord pays tax and factors it into the cost. But owners occupiers often get a tax break, so you will probably be paying a higher tax as a renter by paying your landlord's higher rental property vs owner tax.

>>57692759
Not unless your loan is reamortized

>>57689812
You're not autistic just stupid

>>57691616
>You own the real asset.
You own nothing. How did people not learn from the lockdowns? The government can take "your" house at any time for any reason. The only thing you or anyone else on earth can possess without a standing army is Bitcoin.

>Buying will ALWAYS be better long term because you are liability matching your need for housing by owning a house, and shorting depreciating dollars.
This is true if you're comparing a $3,000 monthly mortgage payment to $3,000 in rent. It's not true if you factor in a down payment that could have been spent on Bitcoin for a much higher return over a shorter period of time. Or if you're renovating, buying multiple empty houses as "passive" investments, or panic selling when the price drops.

Financially, the best thing you can do is live in your car because it's cheaper. Less expenses means more Bitcoin. A house is a glorified furniture piece. It can't compete as money.

>>57693869
>Financially, the best thing you can do is live in your car
Except you don't live in your car. You rentlets act like you can just choose not pay rent. Are you OK being homeless? No? Then are you will always be renting some type of housing where you'd be better off owning the same thing. Of course living in shittier and shittier conditions costs less lol, its like you're conceding renting is worse it just allows you to be homeless and therefor is financially better. Ok, but if you don't plan on being homeless or living in a cuck shed then its worse. Compare apples to apples and you admit its worse.

This is before we even consider government subsidizes mortgages, and incentives where you don't have to put 20+% down. Even if you put 20% down, that's 5x leverage with no margin call risk as long as you pay the monthly. You only need the house to appreciate 1/5th the amount of a comparable investment. Historically housing has trended with money supply inflation of about 6%, so you have to basically get 30% - interest to beat the down payment which is pretty hard. And its waay better than other leverage like stock margin because you can't be margin called, just hold because fiat inflation is 100% guaranteed long run.

>>57693869
>The government can take "your" house at any time for any reason.
Do you have a single incidence where the government took someone's house for "any reason" during covid?

How is a house like a "savings account" when, at current interest rates, you end up paying the bank more than 100% of the homes purchase value in interest. Real estate seems like a complete scam. Its also for all intents and purpose a commodity with infinite supply, which will inevitably meet demand. I used to own a cheap house and it was a nightmare, I sold it and bought BTC at the bottom and never looked back.

>>57693954
Do the math. If the cuckshed is 500 a month cheaper, over the course of a year that could add up to 0.1 Bitcoin. That's easily the price of a whole house 5 years from now. But a homeowner would still be making payments.

>>57694142
What goes through your head when you ask a question this stupid? Is your argument that "the government wouldn't do that"?

>>57694374
>What goes through your head when you ask a question this stupid? Is your argument that "the government wouldn't do that"?
So we're just going to make wild claims that never happened because they can happen in your head?

>>57689931

I just negotiated a rent decrease. Multifamily building just went insane.

>>57694457
it's called coping.

>>57694374
No shit, you're just saying you can save money living in a shithole with roommates vs living in your own house. No shit. But compare apples to apples, owning is objectively better given any standard of living.

No person here who have knowledge about investor / shareholder stuff, i have a specific question ?

>>57690388

It also ignores that you can simply just make extra payments and pay the mortgage off early. Buy a modest house below your means and then make double or triple payments and pay that bitch off in 5-10 years. You only pay your principal in interest if you get a 30-year fixed and then only make the standard payments for 30 years. People on shorter terms like 15 fixed and/or who make extra payments end up paying far, far less interest. Saving up a significant downpayment as well helps, obviously the chumps putting 3.5% down on their FHA loan are going to end up paying way more interest for the same home than someone putting 30% down on a conventional fixed rate mortgage.

>>57694662
Just ask your question dude, don't ask for a super specialist with 20 years working experience in an abstract profession before asking your specific question.

>>57694697
At the big gaming companies like MS, Ubisoft, EA
there are the shareholder shares (that's what it's called if I'm not mistaken))
Could I also participate as a (private) investor? If so, what is the minimum amount required?

>>57694732
You should try googling your incredibly simple questions first.
>What are the different share types at [company]?

>>57691616
>You own the real asset. The whole "bank owns the house" is so fucking retarded, its a lien. Huge difference.
Do you have autism? When people say that they don't mean that the bank owns the house in a literal sense. They are refering to the fact that the bank can and will take the house away from you if you don't pay them back on time. When they can do that, the house is not actually yours

>>57690031
I bought in 2013

Every year with the exception of 2022 the equity gained was greater than the mortgage payments

>>57689700
Zero down, try and stop me.

>>57689938
>Pay off your house in 5 years

>>57694756
Thanks for the advice, but i would like to have your personal opinion, please.

>>57694873
My personal opinion is if you don't' know the difference between specific share types and why you cannot buy them, you're not getting into the secret shareholders meetings.

>>57694813
I paid mine off in 7.5 years. Mostly because I fucked around with things I shouldn't have like expensive hobbies and mild alcoholism. Probably would have been 5 even had I not fucked around, but the hobbies are still fun for me so I have that going for me.

>>57694810
That's what I did, refinanced once I had 20% (only took 3 years)

I don't understand why people are so afraid of PMI, it was 0.35%. Keeping the cash in a high-interest savings account pays 3x the PMI.

>>57694570
It's nice to have, but we're talking about finances. You're ultimately losing money by spending it on a house. The government subsidies are a marketing gimmick. The price of the average house goes down in Bitcoin terms.

>>57694457
My claim is that the government is physically capable of taking your house if they want to. If you trust the government to be reasonable then I guess it doesn't matter.

>>57694898
>you're not getting into the secret shareholders meetings.


According to this site:
https://www.theaccountancy.co.uk/limited-company/shares/using-different-types-of-shares-in-a-company-58457.html

Do you mean that?
Quote: Do dividend payments all have to be the same amount?
Dividends are one of the perks of being a company shareholder.


- But it only says that the shareholder can decide which shares he takes up. But it doesn't mean you can't take part.
Sorry, can you explain this to me in more detail, please.

>>57694927
sure you did

>>57692249
Haha you sound like a retard. I bought a block of units and within 6 months had saved enough to buy a business.

>>57692043

still a more worthwhile contribution than the standard "hurrr cope seethe" derailment. That's peak level faggotry, they posted that shit with at least a full dick in them, if not more than one

>>57695142
Well I made the last payment last month and was mailed the transferrance of deed docs so its paid off. I got the loan in 2017 so, roughly 7ish years its paid off
>buying price $235k
Its not some million dollar mansion, but now I just have to save $836 per month for property tax and homeowners insurance.

I'm still in my 30s with no debt including my house. Half the people on /biz/ will call me stupid for not taking $100k cash and investing it to beat my 3% mortgage. Cool, I'm debt free and can just watch money pile up through regular income and investing now. Enjoy that mortgage into your 70s I guess.

>>57695031
>My claim is that the government is physically capable of taking your house if they want to.
Okay, and? Is this an argument of the government has tanks and you just have a pistol so they can just take your house even though they just wont? What are you even suggesting now?

>>57695520
You talk too much, are you female?
Either that or youre full of shit

>>57695031
>The government can kill my dog if they wanted to. Should have never gotten that dog!
cope off the charts.

>>57695031
That's why you don't put 20% down.

Just go conventional with 3% down and pay the PMI.

>>57690436
that only works if rates remain unchanged for the duration of the mortgage, they will not

all this means is that instead of overpaying monthly you should instead pile up the cash in riskless assets as long as you can, accelerating your payoff timeline

>>57695596
>they will not

LMFAO

It's fixed for 30 YEARS in burgerland

>>57695520
Why the fuck would you pay anything other than minimums on a mortgage?

>>57695547
>Theres no possible way you paid off your house early!
You sound like a loser. Winners aren't losers.

>>57693661
That only happens if you have an adjustable rate mortgage, in which case it reamortizes whenever your rate adjusts, or if you request a recast of the loan yourself. For the latter to happen you have to pay down a large portion of your principal and request the bank reamortizes your mortgage. Those are the only two scenarios where that happens. The first one is out of your control but if you got an ARM you should go into it knowing this already.

>>57695596
imagine not having a 30 year fixed rate mortgage lmao couldnt be me

>>57689700
Since the American dream has been sabotaged here’s my “Clan Plan” as a single male poor with 50k annual income and a large immediate family.
>find home or ranch
>FHA Loan
>5 of us go in on down payment
>live in and pay home off in 3-5 years
>rinse and repeat until every family member owns a home

I don’t really see any flaws, nothing but pros
>give my parents a home to grow old in
>live with my brothers and sisters
>we all save money

>>57695935
>5 people going in on a mortgage together
>I don't see any flaws

Renters are actual retards

>>57695959
Can you be specific?
>I’m solely taking on the mortgage
>additional family is just helping foot the bill

>>57695986
Yeah bro I cannot see a single thing going wrong, great finance hack you have there.

My oil divies bough for pennies in march 2020 pay off my yearly rent. On top of having the principal that went tits up, while the rest went on the memedaq100 doing even more ridiculous shit. Sure that won't last forever, but I'm at a point where even if everything crash -60-70%, I'm still good.
Why the fuck would I enslave myself to a fucking bank for the next 20 years, when, at the very worst, I'm about to retire in 10 years at 42, and more likely in 5 years at the rate everything is going on.
Why would I fucking enslave myself to that stupid system.

>>57696020
We’ve already discussed and there’s no objections, everyone is onboard. It’s just a matter of when and where. Everyone is steadily employed, debt free and ready to commit. We’re Latino so we’re used to living together.

>>57694142
Are you a dumb fucking nigger, they banned evictions during covid, which is taking your property rights from you. What a dumb fucking nigger.

>>57696139
You still own it and can sell it
Maybe be more specific when you say the government takes it away from you

>>57689700
I like how everyone just pretends they didn't bail out the housing market three years ago. 100% healthy market. The only thing we can count on is the fed cant let RE prices fall because tax receipts would take a hit. Dont worry they'll do some assistance program for zoomers to buy houses to keep those prices pumping.

>>57689700
I've given up. I've accepted I'll be living with my parents until they die. These homeowner / zestimate / rentoid threads have no meaning to me anymore. Moving out is a luxury for the wealthy elite.

>>57696108
You're not evaluating the risk well enough. If its just your income the risk is your sole income not being able to pay the mortgage. If its you and your wife that risk is ostensibly cut in half because if 1 of you loses your income, you may still be able to pay the mortgage. This sounds like a good plan for 5 people paying right? No, because of human nature and the variability of risk between the 5 of you, thats where it could fall short.

Say 1 person loses his job and another takes a job 5 hours away. You've just lost 2/5 of your income with absolutely no way to increase it that much.
Then you have to consider if you're the sole entity on the loan, they may not even approve you for having too low of an income, then you'll have to put other names on the mortgage. See point above; what if one or more moves away and gets out of that deal for a multitude of reasons? Job, relationship, illness, falling out and they hate you? What if they get to their 30s paying off the second family members house and realize you may not pay for their house while living in your own?
Myself and the other anon see the risk because of how messy things really can be when money is on the line, and the law can apply.

>>57696108
>We’re Latino

HAHAHAHAHAHA

That explains the braindead idea

>>57696212
You bring up valid points anon! I’m 27, and my siblings are 19,21,25. None of us are married. We’re definitely set on this and most likely will finish this year out to save up and execute our plan.

>>57696377
Who pays for the AC when it fails?

>>57696252
Kek still no valid point, only ad hominem. Don’t be mad your family or lack there of doesn’t like you. You could have all the brains and money in the world yet YOU ARE STILL ALONE…

so uhhh did anyone else notice that mortgage interest rates are going up again?
whatever happened to all the house flippers and investors who bought extra houses as investment AirBNB properties and got HELOCs and stuff?

>>57689700
all mortgages are scams.

>>57696418
I work maintenance and have connections for literally any and everything. I can handle most home repairs and upkeep on my own.

>>57695313
>nominal value went up so I made money!
Slaveminds like this is why the fiat grift can continue indefinitely, thank you slave for gifting me your productivity

>>57695830
False. Fixed rate mortgages do not automatically reamortize, some can not be reamortized at all. You pay less interest on a 15 year fixed mortgage than a 30 fixed year paid in 15 years

>>57696544
It's called cash flow, internal rate of return. Nothing to do with capital growth. Cunt.

>>57696582
I literally said adjustable rate mortgages.

>>57696437
Not going to help an invader.

>>57696582
>You pay less interest on a 15 year fixed mortgage than a 30 fixed year paid in 15 years

You're paying more monthly, which lessens your purchasing power for additional investments.

>>57689700
i agree with this sentiment but largely cause i'm a pharmacist in Canada.

Canada doesn't want you to succeed with property to your name and family.

>>57689700
NOOOOOOO
MY DEPRECIATING ASSET WITH MASSIVE OVERHEAD IS AN INVESTMENT

DELETE THIS POST

>>57689700
You have to know how to play the game. When to get in, and when to upgrade. You have to know your properties, your neighborhoods and.most of all, patience. Good scores are hard to come by, and the competition is fierce in an up market. Rarely is it a down market. It can crab for decades though. If you look at assessors' websites, you'll see that oftentimes real estate folks hold the best properties. The proof is in the pudding

>>57697150
The total amount paid over the life of the mortgage is greater for a 30y fixed paid over 15 years than a 15y fixed paid over 15 years, simple enough smoothy?
>>57696916
>I gets poorer every year but number go up so that means I dun goods invasmant!
Slavemind. Again, without your ilk I couldn't live how I live, so thank you for slaving so I don't have to, but it never ceases to amuse me that I can explain and show exactly how you're getting fucked up the ass and yet you'll defend getting fucked up the ass like a bitch faggot to your dying day. Natural Born Slave.

I dont even give a fuck about the math anymore I just cant stand my options for a house in the first place they're all overpriced or dogshit that would require me to invest just as much if not more if I just bought the other overpriced houses. Its all shit because boomers are actually retarded and millennials are just as bad. Ill get a condo or something

>>57697246
You have no understanding of what passive income is.

Mortgages are the cornerstone of modern slaving. It demands constantly rising population so that it's never a buyer's market and mortgage payments are almost exactly every cent from the slaves wages besides some food and entertainment stipend. This is why immigration in the west has been the way it is. This is going to end soon. Nazi revolution is coming, this is planned, not brought about by mindless slaves. The world is ending soon so it's basically and endgame system and we won't be going back to debt slaves for a while I don't imagine. I mean the current mortgage slaves might be converted to overt slaves on account of their unpayable debt.

>>57697339
This is why I am homeless. Fuck being a slave.

>>57695935
Sounds based, don't let that other fag discourage you

>>57697246
It's bad advice. You are tying up a larger percent of your income to pay a slightly lower interest rate.

You're throwing more money towards home equity instead of investments that would be appreciating higher than your interest rate.

>>57689977
Didnt they still have the gold standard at that point?
I really dont see how its comparable

>>57689812
>I'll sleep way better knowing I don't have to think about how to constantly micromanage paying someone bit by bit every month for the next 30 damn years.
Boy are you gonna love hearing about property taxes.

>>57698833
oh dear lord honey badger doesn't care are you really that financially illiterate to the extent that you have to be reminded that property taxes exist i guess someone as brainlet tier as you could make the assumption that paying rent to a landlord is equivalent to paying your taxes you sound like a poor pathetic loser your girlfriend probably cheats on you with guys who own multiple homes and you should consider investing a smaller loan of a million dollars in honey badger tokens as it will 100x you're welcome

>>57689700
Buying a home to live in can be a scam and it really is for dumb normies, but being a landlord is not due to the fact you can claim interest and deprecation on tax.

You can claim deprecation even if you have capital growth.

It's cheap leverage that you never have to pay tax on because you can take loans out agasint your asset to buy more assets instead of selling

Eg buy a building, fix it up. Now it's worth more and you have increased equity to buy more buildings and stocks with.

Though you want to do this at the bottom of the market cycle and I think we are at a top.

>>57698856
Did you just make some shit up about taxes without any consideration for the facts just to join in the discussion? Because thats what it looks like you did.

>>57689812
i plan on doing this as well. i have $80k saved up, need to hit $140k to buy a house outright in cash in my shitty hometown. just another 2-3 years of savings and i'll be there. debtbaggies can have fun paying a mortgage for another 2-3 decades.

>>57690461
In 6 months she could have either learned how to fix the fence herself or get an extra part time gig

>>57700712
Uh huh. Fence was a $600 repair, her property taxes were $5000. Stop focusing on the specific example, see the general discussion.

>>57689700
Idiots, imagine not qualifying for a kosher interest free mortgage.

>>57700929
you absolute retards you think you know everything because you took finance 101 and read some investopedia articles but you don't know jackshit you think buying a property with a mortgage is a scam when the truth is you're just stupid and don't understand basic economics like how mortgage rates are historically low and i have a huge a cock

>>57698856
The savings from taxes aren't as much as they used to be because the standard deduction doubled from 2017-18.

If you're married and bought an average property pre-2022 that you're renting out, the interest + taxes + depreciation + maintenance/repairs likely aren't more than the standard deduction (29,200 in 2024).

>>57701962
oh yeah bro tell me i don't know jack about finance from your mom's basement when i have a massive veiny hog of a cock

>>57689830
I pay $300/yr in property taxes

>>57690031
You're an economically illiterate moron.

>>57689700
The interest is partially offset by inflation. Realistically though, homeownership is for two kinds of people

1. People who are interested in the homeowner lifestyle (ie, customizing a domestic property to suit your needs. In this case once all costs are included (repairs, maintenance, renovation, etc) you're either paying a slight premium or it's a wash vis a vis renting something roughly equivalent. Highly dependent on local market conditions and what kind of property you're after.

2. People who are too retarded to not yolo their wad into something retarded or overspend on retarded shit, but who are still smart enough to be able to pay a bill on time. In this scenario the inflexibility of housing as an asset is a benefit. It's a piggybank that ends up being difficult to dip into aside from taking additional debt out against it.

People shit on Dave Ramsay but when you consider how fucking stupid the average american is and then understand that 50% of americans are even stupider than that the retarded takes he has are like wisdom from on high compared to what the average american is doing with their money.

>>57689977
this is true but the ENTIRE point of the fed is avoiding exactly this thing from happening ever again.

Anyways, hoomers should admit that at least over the past 50 years, stocks beat property in almost every market and metric. Rentcucks should admit that the stability and lifestyle afforded to homeowners has some appeal and validity even if it's not the most optimal investment strategy for wealth building. Because end of the day what the fuck are you building wealth for? To fund a lifestyle. If you want to own a home as part of that lifestyle it's an essential expense and the prospect of an appreciating asset is just a cherry on top.

>>57702524
I paid $0 to move into my house and there is over 300k in equity in the place

How do you get those returns in the stock market?

>>57702266
Wait what?

You mean not everyone lives in the SF Bay Area or NYC?

>>57702576
you're not arguing from an honest position, or are too stupid to realize your position is dishonest, so it's not worth speaking to you.

>>57694803
>the equity gained was greater than the mortgage payments
what about taxes, maintenance, and the value of your time? i know you'll come out ahead, but owning a house is kind of gay. I'd consider it if i had a family, or the opportunity to buy a ton of land.

>>57702595
You lose

>>57702964
>what about taxes

Do renters not know that this is Included in the mortgage payment?

>>57702967
the equity in your house isn't a good return on investment the market does better than a few percent and isn't as risky as home ownership you idiot what happens when you have to drop a huge amount of money fixing your roof your wife divorces you and takes half of your house you're a moron plus you're gay

>>57702595
>argument is literally you cant just win because then i would be a loser
>>57702967
kek

>>57702997
Have you not sat down to count the cost? you're paying a premium for a lifestyle decision. if you're looking for greater wealth accumulation, you rent.