/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>57617053
>Why do people get so pissy?
they think that money and success should only be the result of hard work (waging), else it is undeserved. they dont get how this clown world works.

>>57617053
They resent the fact that you got "lucky" and non longer need to work, while they will have to do it for the foreseeable future. You have freedom and they don't. They also cope that "hard work" should result in wealth

Why are you retards even telling anybody? They are going to seethe like mad and they're just waiting for you to fail to feel better about themselves. Don't tell no one.

>>57617149
>don't tell no one
So... Tell everybody? Think about what you say before you say it, retard.

>>57617053
Yes it really is that simple. Either they didn't buy at all or they bought the top and sold the bottom. They can only draw 2 possible conclusions from their experience: That they are dumb worthless niggers or that BTC is a scam. All the objective data points to the first conclusion being correct. However, normgroids only care about feeling good in the moment and admitting to the first conclusion would make them feel bad. Hence BTC bad.

no one buys a winning lotto ticket and then preaches to everyone that they bought a lotto ticket because of how smart they are. a stopped clock is right twice a day. for every 1 person who made it in crypto there are 1000 who lost everything on scams.

>>57617053
because bitcoin has no intrinsic value or use. good job making money from it though, personally i prefer less risky investments

>>57617205
is 'buy and hold btc' really a scam? lmao

>>57617083
>>57617107
>>57617203

well said

>>57617205
welcome to /biz/, with time you'll learn just how stupid this statement was

>>57617231
>no intrinsic value

you're not even trying

>>57617205
Are stocks a scam as well? Multiple people roped over GME

Explain how bitcoin is any different than any of the other 5000 cryptos, if they are all the same you are just gambling and simply picked the right ticket.

>>57617557
>Explain how bitcoin is any different than any of the other 5000 cryptos
these are the people that stay in the red

>>57617149
I am scared someone will report me to the IRS. I've got everything in order but those faggots will always look for an excuse to take money from you.

>>57617557
No official team behind them no 70% of the crypto being in the hand of the devs.. If Satoshi was alive or know person with twitter we would likely never reach even 100$ Secondly btc is proven nobody will ever rug pull you out of it.

>>57617107
I'm convinced that only like 5-10% of the people on Earth actually have souls, and the other 90% of people are just npcs put here to serve us and suck our cocks.

>>57617550
If the entire world decide that stocks are worth shit you can buy all the stocks for free and control the means of production and be the most powerful man in the world

If the entire world decide that crypto is worth shit you can buy all the crypto but will control nothing

>>57617231
>risky investment
Nigger, it halves every 4 years until the year 2140. Its literally a free money printer for the next 120 years.

>>57617543
bitcoin has no use, it doesnt solve any problems or offer anything new that government backed currency already has

it will never replace fiat currency, its not normie friendly, normies dont care about decentralization. if you make money from crypto cool but crypto is something that you buy knowing youre going to cash out later (with actual currency) , its not something you invest in because you believe in it

>>57617616
What happens when the entire world decides the USD isn't worth shit and having a single country printing the world currency is a bad idea?

>>57617616
Stocks don't entitle you to ownership. Stocks are printed put of nothing and are basically just corporate baseball cards

>>57617694
>What happens when the entire world decides the USD isn't worth shit
They wouldn't give a shit because fiat currency is not backed by faith or good will like crypto but by the monopoly of violence from the state, if you don't use dollarinos you will go to jail.
>>57617759
stocks give you ownership, voting rights, the right to sue in case the company openly go against your interests and dividends
>Stocks are printed put of nothing
new stocks are produced by selling a share of the company

>>57617053
>Anyone else here encounter animosity from unexpected sources when discussing bitcoin?
Not just bitcoin. People get pissed when they miss any asset exploding and start thinking "I'm smarter than you. It should have been me. You just got lucky".

>>57617053
Most are inundated with anti-Bitcoin propaganda that they believe at face value.

>>57617858
Also those same people are extremely risk adverse. I even told people what bags to buy and they ignored me. Their loss

>>57617831
>the united states of mulattos is going to throw 7.7 billion people from 194 countries in jail if they ever think about not wanting to use their memecoin anymore

kek. do americans really think this?

>>57617182
upvoted

>>57617882
We can freeze their assets and fuck over half the planet’s governments just by that alone

>>57617592
Not only this but Bitcoin is the test for digital assets as a whole. If Bitcoin were to fail the entire digital asset industry would go under. Crypto as a whole would disappear.

>>57617557
First. Oldest. Most compute intensive. Network effect is a positive feedback loop for a Money, hence BTC is King forever.

>>57617602
Kek

>>57617592
Why did you put the dollar sign after the number

>>57617231
It hadn’t been risky since like 2013

>>57617053

>>57617053
its basically luck, but you deserve it i guess?

>>57617053
I haven't been in the game that long, only started after covid and bought ethereum for $225, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's the longer I'm doing this, the less I can talk about it
people don't want advise, and they only come to you when they have an impulsively bad investment idea and all they want is your confirmation, but we all know buying on impulse is not investing, it's gambling, and they're doomed to fail from the start

>>57617644
Dumbfuck. Bitcoin is THE unit of account, a decentralized fixed supply transferable asset. This did not exist before bitcoin. Known scarcity is the wellspring from which the value of Money flows, bitcoin (fixed supply) is to gold (2% mining inflation) as superconductors are to conductors. It does not need nor even benefit from being used as common currency, it can function as the unit of account fine as a free floating asset as price carries information.

>>57618150
>i guess?
Absolutely they deserve it. Investing is a risk, crypto especially. If you have the guts and the patience to make it you 100% deserve it and to say otherwise is pure cope. Don't be salty because you didn't have the balls to go all in

>>57618256
>Known scarcity is the wellspring from which the value of Money flows

Not exactly, Gold is not valuable because it's simply scarce, it's valuable because it's useful AND scarce, it's a pure chemical substance with several uses, it having no value means that you will be able to buy everything giving you absolute control over it's acess and use.

let's say gold value to go zero, you buy all the gold, if gold is needed for anything like building something or scientific research they will not be able to use without buying from you and you will decide it's value IF you even decide to share it at all.

>>57618258
I mean to be a bit fair here, it's effectively the same as saying that someone who wins on roulette deserved the money. Is it deserved, sure but what does it really say at that point?

He went with bad odds and lucked out. you guys make it sound like there's anything more to it

>>57618026
Because normal brains (non burger) work like that.

>>57618094
>that image
This but unironically
should have done a better job evaluating the value propositions of your investments

>>57618383
You don't want money to have any use beyond a unit of account, because you're immediately creating conflict between usage as a currency/store of value and practical applications. Having no 'intrinsic' worth is unironically the ideal. Gold has worth historically because it was scarce, not because of any of it's modern uses.

>>57618388
Not quite because there is room for strategy and hedging etc. in investing. Even so, if you make a big win gambling and don't immediately lose it betting again or doing something dumb like buying everyone in the casino shots, you're better than 80% of people and absolutely deserve the money. People assume that accumulating wealth through risk taking is easy, but the reality is that most people can't do it successfully

>>57617602
Yeah dude, the NPC meme nailed this over half a decade ago

>>57618404
Non Americans use the american dollar symbol?

told my uncle to buy at least one Bitcoin at 15K (the day of the cycle dip)

this guy is worth 2-3M at least and now he is seething at me because "Bitcoin has no intrinsic value" and that I'm playing casino and I'm just a lucky gambler

Can't wait to text him when we are at 150K to collect his salt

I also told him to buy at 3K and 5K by the way

so he has been seething for 6-7 years

he even said my mother (his sister) that i was probably involved in shady businesses because i travel too much and i was able to buy my home cash

he is the kind of guy who spend 4-5K in a bicycle but could not take the risk to buy 1 BTC at 3K

>>57618489
Gold was considered very useful as it was eternal as far as their knew and extremely durable, you could write any law, any document, any artistic expression on it and it last for thousands of years and no accident would destroy it unlike the frail leather, paper, glass and clay, plus a few medical uses.

>>57618541
in poker you can win with a bad hand, doesn't mean that the strategy was good

>>57618489
false

If I would own all the bitcoin in the world, would I be the richest person in the world or would bitcoin be useless?

i think the loneliness lies in the fact that you're autistic enough to understand bitcoin but not autistic enough to have friends that also understand bitcoin. you dont belong anywhere but here. and it's frustrating.

>>57617869
only in america, never heard of that

>>57617831
>stocks give you ownership
You own nothing goyim

>>57618843
Obviously it would be useless, what is your point? If you owned all the gold in the world it would only be a commodity and cease to be money

>>57617053
Exactly what is happening with SUI. It's programmed for 20-30 dollars soon. Hydro online is building on the ecosystem and it's a solid one.

>>57617053
All my family basically hates me and hates crypto too, this is how I know I am gonna make It.

>>57617550
>Are stocks a scam as well?
payment for order flow is a scam

>>57617053
I tried bringing up the topic of crypto with some of my zoomer friends... they came out with the usual talking points about how it's a scam, bad for the environment, etc. Those same people also say they wish they could go back in time and buy bitcoin when it was $1

>>57617203
this is the heart of it, it's a self preservation tactic. kinda like when men get circumcised as babies, either it's an act of sexual mutilation and a horrible betrayal of trust perpetrated on them by their own parents (which all evidence points to), or it's 'no big deal' and 'it's so not a big deal i'm going to cut half of my own child's penis off too to prove to myself how not a big deal it is'. The former fact-based assessment leaves a man wracked with regret, loathing, and a disabling sense of disenfranchisement with the structure of society. It shatters a man, it's hard to bear. The latter, delusional take leads to preservation of sense of self-worth and the ability to continue to function in society, at the cost of perpetuating sexual violence on children.

>>57617182

>>57619145
The scarcity of bitcoin is arbitrary. It is only worth something as long as the consensus between the large actors is that it is worth something. If they decide to not trade it it is useless.

Money serves the purpose of account, I agree with that, but when it's backed by essentially nothing you do have a problem. The king is naked, and for us to find out. Or find a bigger fool.

>>57617053
Is it because you are a cis gender white male? If so, then it's deserved.

>>57619599
cis is a slur against normal people stop using it chud

>>57619556
Look up "bitcoin mining" and get your head blown, retard

>>57619556
>It is only worth something as long as the consensus between the large actors is that it is worth something.
You could make the same argument about literally anything traded on an open market. There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with this

>>57619760
I don't think that means what you think it means

>>57619787
Essentially yes, but there is a difference when what is being traded is based on commodities. If you buy land, infrastructure, or a tech company, you in essence own something of value. As for the dollar, that is backed by US lawmakers and military.

>>57617053
This is true. I asked my father and sister to buy 20 dollars worth of BTC in 2017 when it was worth 2 grand a coin or so. My sister said NOOOOO I could lose the money, it's too risky of an investment. She would've made about 25 times the initial investment if she held until now. She wouldn't have cared about spending 600 dollars on a handbag, but BTC nope. My dad regretted not getting into BTC in 2008 when my tech bro brother told him to. He blew 600k on a housing investment around that time. Typical boomerisms. He was still salty and went through the whole Fox News spiel about how can Bitcoin have any real value, et cetera when it started to take off in 2017. He still could've bought and made a massive profit. I wouldn't doubt that now he'll just opt in for the boomer-friendly Bitcoin ETFs. Just imagine if he spent even 10 percent of his 600k housing investment in Bitcoin in 2008 and just held. He would've made more than he did in his high-stress career.

>>57619893
in all of his high-stress career*

>>57618383
>because it's useful AND scarce
False. We have 500 years of industrial demand sitting above ground, we mine a decade of industrial demand every year. Gold is practically useless, indeed, it's low functional use is precisely WHY it makes such a good Money as it's aggregate demand is not polluted with functional demand. Bitcoin is not "digital gold", gold was the best natural approximation of Bitcoin.

>>57619961
I mean gold is used in the CPU and partially in the GPUs that mine Bitcoin. If you have loads of old CPUs you can still smelt them down into gold beads. But you are right that BTC is a close digital approximation to gold for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkVkBiugA58

>>57619821
>you in essence own something of value
But that's exactly the problem. Having money tied to a tangible asset essentially means you are operating a barter system with extra steps, and you are no longer worrying solely about the value of the money itself but also the asset it guarantees. This is why literally every economy that matters uses fiat currency, but the advantage bitcoin has over these is that it can't simply be inflated away

>>57617203

>>57619355
I'd kms myself if I was circumcised desu. I understand why those guys are willing to believe in such dumb copes about it, for the reasons you said

>>57618094
Literally the shape of the NASDAQ rn

>>57620040
FIAT is an extension of the bartering system. You trust that if you go against the interest of the US dollar you get the US military and lawmakers against you. This serves the interest of the american people, and by extension, the people invested in the US market.

When you remove this, you're banking on a gentlemans agreement that you will keep trading based on essentially nothing.

>>57619961
>Gold is practically useless
not true, gold had never ever been useless and thanks to our current scientific approach we can never ever fully discard the possibility of future uses

Other countries would never allow one single goverment to just buy all the gold in the world and put it in a vault, to have an entire basic, limited element, a basic resource out of their reach

>>57618819
You do not win consistently, meaning over many years, with a bad hand in poker. That's the difference. If you are able to profit consistently through investing, you're being carried by skill, not luck.

Honestly people who simply buy 1 coin they've never heard of on a whim and then suddenly get a 1000x overnight the next day did gamble, and they know it. They'll admit it. But the people who put some thought into it and bought a coin to hold for a long time, or even traded multiple times, did so with skill and premeditation. That's the difference. We didn't "get lucky".

>>57620254
an irrational market can stay solvent for a long time. just because you're making profits does not mean that it's based on a good foundation.

>>57620293
It's like telling the victors of a war that they're all terrible soldiers because they didn't stand in a straight line in a field with bright redcoats while shooting the enemy. If you can consistently, not once or twice, but consistently over years, make profits trading then that absolutely does mean it's based on a good foundation. Just because it's not "technically correct" means absolutely nothing. Most people have a sense of whether they earned their income through an investment or a gamble.

Also
>An irrational market can stay solvent for a long time
This cliche phrase doesn't actually mean anything. "Solvent" makes no fucking sense here. It's just a cute way of saying you don't like the price of something because you think it's too high.

>>57620293
>>57620430
Going back to your poker analogy, you've probably heard that "even if you win at poker that doesn't mean you played well." That's true for 1 or 2 hands AT MOST. If you are able to consistently win at poker, regardless of your strategy, then that does actually mean you play poker well. The key is the consistency.

>>57620430
>Most people have a sense of whether they earned their income through an investment or a gamble.
And most people are not good investors. Not only in crypto, but most people have no idea why they are successful or not, despite what they might believe to be the case.

>>57618613
>>57618694
your uncle sounds like a shitty person who would not hesitate to make shit up about you legally if he thought there was even a chance he could get a payout one way or another. Yes, you are in the right here and yes you deserve to rub it in. But is that really a risk you want to take? Normies can be quite vile.

>>57620444
Absolutely, the more bets you are making the likelihood of lucking out fizzles out. Betting consistently in one asset is not that.

>>57620505
Yes.... so someone who consistently earns money in crypto over a span of several years could be "lucky" the way a monkey could win at poker, but the odds of that are extremely small. It's far more likely that he/she is good at investing.
And to address >>57620486
You don't have to know why you're good at investing to be good at it. You don't even have to know why you're good at your job to be good at it. Plenty of people probably don't even think about it.

Normies look at people who got rich off Bitcoin the way Bitcoin holders look at people who got rich off Doge or Shiba.

Normies fail to understand that people who got rich off Bitcoin has been through a nightmare that has lasted around a decade. And every time it seemed like Bitcoin was about to die, they still did not sell their Bitcoin, but held on through pain. Meanwhile most of the people who got rich off Doge and Shiba only had to endure a couple of months of up-only and not get too greedy

>>57618388
Your mistake is believing gains in crypto are from "luck". It's a skill issue, learn how to invest properly or you're ngmi.

>>57620543
>but the odds of that are extremely small
Not really, I think you're thinking about this wrong. This is not the same as taking several bets, this is loading more and more into the same bet. When the music stops, that's when the ones left with it finds out. This happens all the time, and with crypto it also happens to be backed by nothing.

>>57617592
>btc is proven nobody will ever rug pull you out of it.
The ETF passed you dumbo, hedge funds will rug you at the slightest sentiment shift to fund their shorts.

>>57620543
You call it good investments because you make money on it. I'm saying once the music stops the ones holding the bags will find out. Until then there are of course people making a lot of money. The argument isn't whether you're making money or not, but is it sound fundamentals. To which I'm saying it is not

If you have been in the space since 2014-2017 and aren't green then you are not luckybut mainly you also suck at investing. Give up and stop wasting your time and money.
If you have been in the space since 2021 and haven't been green since 2023, you suck at investing, but can still get lucky by the end of 2025.

>>57620635
It is, by definition, a good investment because people make money consistently off it, meaning over a reasonably large amount of time. It does not matter if the fundamentals are sound (I agree that they are not sound at all). That's where you and I disagree.

>>57618388
>I mean to be a bit fair here, it's effectively the same as saying that someone who wins on roulette deserved the money.
Well, they do deserve it, sure. But it's not the same. Roulette is based on pure chance. There's nothing else that factors into Roulette except luck. If you want to use a gambling analogy, it's more like playing poker because it involves a combination of luck and skill. And if you still think BTC went from being worth zero to over $50k based on pure luck then you still do not understand. Early investors won because they understood the potential of the technology and invested in it while everyone else was FUDding or not paying attention.

>>57620673
lol wait so we agree but are caught up in semantics. hats off to anyone bagging profits in this.

>>57620603
If we're just talking about gambling vs. investing, I don't think it matters if it's one bet or a million bets. I think what matters is the pre-meditation and consideration of the investment (what are the chances of it making money? Greater than 50%?). I would say that Bitcoin had a good chance of making money, greater than 50% at least, so purchasing it was a calculated investment regardless of whether it has "sound fundamentals".

If we're talking about whether it's a good investment or not, I don't think the fundamentals matter, only the chances of its price increasing.

I don't think you and I will agree if we can't agree on this point at all but it was nice talking with you.

>>57620635
>You call it good investments because you make money on it. I'm saying once the music stops the ones holding the bags will find out.
Yawn... this is the same exact r/buttcoiner cope we've been hearing since BTC was $10. Just accept that you suck at evaluating value and were wrong in your assessment of the world's first crypto coin. BTC will outlive you so you might as well accept it now so you don't go to your grave seething

>>57620694
Maybe? But I would say the people who profited on all this did so because of considerable skill, not just luck.

>>57620165
>based on essentially nothing
Bitcoin is arguably backed by energy which fuels the mining network. You aren't wrong that bitcoin stays afloat by trust alone, however the power of that should not be disregarded. Most of our society would not function without trust. As for the original topic of this thread, the risk I took when investing in bitcoin was that the system would not become trusted, and that risk means that I do in fact deserve these sweet gains. So far I have been vindicated, enough people trust it to push its net value to rival that of gold. There is nothing fundamental to stop it from crashing down tomorrow, just as there is nothing to stop a terrible plague from shutting down society tomorrow either, or a meteor striking the earth

>>57620716
what I was addressing was the point of how much luck plays a role in such a bet, or rather how unlikely it is to luck out on such a bet. What you said before about being skillful for consistently picking the same crypto doesn't make much sense here. An idiot could just as well be doing the same.

We already agree that the fundamentals behind crypto are whack, and that people can be profitable in an irrational market.

>>57620684
Sorry friend, I've already wasted too much time here, you can read my posts if you're interested

>>57620774
Hey, I'm heading out. It was an interesting talk from before. Take care

>>57620807
Stay poor midwit and don't let the door hit you on the way out back to r*ddit

>>57617550
Never selling my GME stay mad while GME makes me rich SHORTS NEVER CLOSED RETAIL OWNS THE FLOAT

>>57618235
yep, people dont want help.

>>57619355
I’m circumcised and don’t plan on circumcising my sons but no, I feel in no type of way shattered for having been mutilated as a baby.

>>57620494
i don't think so, we just like to fight on whatsapp kek

sometimes he sends me screenshots of his bank accounts to brag (i just know he has one with 1M in it and he also has 500K in a trading platform)

he hates cops

he has a website where people chat and share their webcams and the police is harassing him for IP's

but he clearly tried to make me look bad in front of my mother

she told me "if it's true please stop", i laughed and told her he was jealous

>>57620592
plenty of people have made huge gains then lost it. anyone saying they made huge gains now in the middle of the bull market might just be about to lose it very soon

>>57620673
The fundamentals are as sound as any currency, which is to say that people want it because other people want it, which means it serves as an abstract mechanism for value transfer between people.

>>57619556
Please supply one (1) fixed unit of account in all of pre-BTC history. I'll wait.

>>57620020
>>57620195
Not useless, practically useless. Again, 500 years of industrial demand (without recycling) sitting in vaults, safes and jewelry boxes. Without store of value/unit of account demand gold would be lucky to trade above $100/oz

>>57617149
The only time I told anyone about crypto was to tell friends that they should buy this one I wanted to buy
I am up big right now and know its going to keep going up so I am probably going to tell them one more time to get in