/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>57460934
no, retard

>>57460934
the fuck?

such stupid threads
how are you able to figure out how to solve a captcha and post in the first place with how retarded this shit is

>>57460939
It's not a pump and dump scheme, is it?

>>57460934
of course not, people just magic cryptocurrencies out of thin air and cope that burning electricity somehow "stores the energy" inside in the bitcoin which gives it value

the argument doesn't work though because you can't melt the bitcoin back down to "release" the energy/electricity to be used again, so no, the coins have no "inherent value", and tens of thousands of cryptocurrencies exist and there is nothing stopping anyone for making a new one because for all intents and purposes they are essentially the same in function. Bitcoin simply has value because of the "network" and that people trust it, which ironically is exactly the same thing that holds up fiats value, the very thing it claims to replace

the only argument they have left is that it has limited quantity, but falls apart when you realise that there are tens of thousands of cryptocurrencies, all of which could be declared the "store of value" by any bank or person, ergo it has de facto infinite supply

>>57460934
I've heard that Bitcoin was created by the government.
But if the government created Bitcoin, they would have told us, right?

>>57460934
actually yes, mathematics, nigger

>>57460957
it's not even "immutable" or whatever, it changes according to consensus, which in practice means whoever best bribes the miners

>>57460965
OK, good. I was worried there for a moment.

How valuable is mathematics?
What is the gold to maths ratio?

Functional demand is DETRIMENTAL to a Money (store of value), price is a product of aggregate demand, a money having functional use means part of the price (proportional to it's functional demand) will be from functional demand, forcing buyers of Store of Value to pay a functional premium and subjecting them to the risk the functional demand will fall, causing real terms fall in money value independent of demand for Store of Value. This can be seen in platinum, while it's physical properties make it a strong money on paper, it's high functional demand renders it unusable as price becomes dominated by functional demand, not Store of Value demand.

Gold is the best natural money precisely because it has little functional demand, less than 10% of annual gold mining production goes towards functional use, BTC improves on this by having no functional use outside of Money (Store of Value).

The only intrinsic value anything has is itself. 1 BTC = 1 BTC, 1 Au oz = 1 Au oz and so on. An ounce of gold buys a ton of wheat now, but if a meteor hits the earth and decimates wheat production will it still buy a ton of wheat? Of course not. Ergo, the value is extrinsic not intrinsic, gold derives it's value from demand for Store of Value, same as BTC, BTC better meets the demand for SoV being fixed in total supply, trivially easy to authenticate, weightless, transferable trustlessly and securely and so on.

This halving marks the inflection point where BTC inflation (~1.7% now) fails well below gold mining inflation (2%), at all future points BTC will only ever be a better and better fixed unit of account and therefore a better and better store of value. Bitcoin is an inevitability

>>57460934
Turns out Bitcoin isn't back by a commodity, so it's value is basically nothing.

However, there is only going to ever be 21 million Bitcoins ever.
So...
21 million x nothing = nothing

Fuck!

>>57460934
It’s backed by the laws of thermodynamics.

>>57460934
Guys, what is the intrinsic value of digital monopoly money? Asking for a friend.

>>57460972
>miners bribed to fork the BTC network
>new forked BTC, call it BBTC (bribed-BTC) is worthless
>nobody mines it because BBTC rewards are worthless
>everyone continues mining BTC
bitcoin 101, read the whitepaper it's like 14 years old you should know this shit

>>57461108
segwit was a massive bribe. it is the canonical version because it benefits miners more than anyone else

>>57460957
Seethe, cope and have fun staying poor

Bitcoin is like gold because both are finite.

Bitcoin, like fiat, isn't backed by a commodity. However Bitcoin is not fiat because it is not authorized by a government.

21 million * no intrinsic value = scam

>>57460982
If you consider hashing some level of mathematical operation, you can measure the "hash/s" of the current mining network to determine the average hashes required to mint 1 BTC.

Divide (price of 1 BTC) / (avg hashes performed to mint 1 BTC). If you want to get that in gold value, further multiply by the value of gold in dollars.

Never thought of it that way, but I don't see any reason it couldn't be.

>>57461124
stupid example, segwit had nothing to do with immutability. it wasn't even a hardfork.

>>57460957
>Bitcoin simply has value because of the "network" and that people trust it, which ironically is exactly the same thing that holds up fiats value
And gold, and 30 pe flat revenue AAPL shares. The problem with fiat is that it can, and is, created Ad infinitum.
>b-but muh shitcoins!
Not Bitcoin. Only 21m BTC forever. Lrn2network effect

>>57461202
you even proved my point here >>57461108. the only thing that matters for bitcoin is what miners want. not any of the other marketing bullshit

>>57461211
>Only 21m BTC forever.
>he doesn't know

>>57461164
What backs gold?

>>57461312
>>57461308
>2 more weeks and miners will destroy bitcoin!

>>57460934
1 Bitcoin=1 Bitcoin

>>57460934
Yes, the commodity is called Bitcoin you moron.

>>57460934
Bitcoin is directly backed by the only commodity that exists in this world.
The underlying asset that gives value to anything and everything.

We're so detached from reality in this fake system that none is able to say what bitcoin is backed by on this whole thread.

Think op, read about bitcoin then answer my post, what is bitcoin backed by?

>>57460934
Fiat is debt. There is demand because someone somewhere signed up to pay it back and you have to pay your tax with. Bitcoin is different

>>57461028
What is gold backed by?

>>57462820
By the same fundamental thing bitcoin and everything else we have access to is backed by.

>>57461308
if this were true bitcoin cash would be the king rn

>>57462820
"Gold is money everything else is credit."
J.P. Morgan

>>57460957
Currency doesn't need to be redeemable to be a good currency faggot. You gold standard retards have such low IQ it's not even funny.

>>57461164
BITCOIN IS DIGITAL GOLD
Bitcoin is like gold because both are finite. The cryptocurrency has a limit of 21 million.

BITCOIN IS DIGITAL FIAT
Bitcoin, like fiat, isn't backed by a commodity and therefore has no intrinsic value. However Bitcoin is not fiat because it is not authorized by a government.

CONCLUSION
Many suspect that Bitcoin is nothing more than a pump and dump scheme. It is a poor store of value because one day it might not be worth anything.

>>57460950
>It's not a pump and dump scheme, is it?
lol of course it is. All crypto is a con. The key is to get in and out of the con with a profit.

>>57461457
>What backs gold?
pussy

Since the dawn of time, women have liked shiny things. Gold is valuable because you can make jewelry for women and get your peepee wet.

>>57464994
Gold has low reflectance through a good portion of viable light, it is objectively much less shiney than silver. Further, if demand for gold were driven by functional properties there would be no demand for solid gold, as the functional properties could be had via filled or plated items.

>>57460950
yes thats exactly what it is. its also obviously used for money laundering at scale. thats why degenerates love it, its basically a legal at home penny casino/knock off jackson pollock art auction

>>57460934
Fiat is digital fiat.

>>57462679
What is gold backed by?

>>57465953
Why has gold been accepted as currency for so long?
What gives it value?
Scarcity?
What's scarcity?
What is it defined by?

Gold like everything else is valuable because of its proprieties, but what chooses the value?
Why isn't gold worthless?
Why isn't your home worthless?
Why isn't your computer or your phone worthless?

>>57460934
>>57460950
>>57464975
If VC money and (((investment bankers))) weren't mucking around in DeFI for fun (and that's all it is to them, crypto is a tiny blip in the overall global economy), the value of BTC would still be $1k tops.
Its 100% a ponzi, the true endgame of which is manufactured consent for CBDC's. Make some money while you can, you might as well (just don't get wrecked by the obvious scams). We still probably have another 1-2 cycles after this one until they're able to roll CBDC's out pretty much worldwide at which point any other cryptocurrency will be outlawed and won't be able to buy much more than drugs on the darkweb.

>>57466469
Mmt has corrupted the mind of so many like this retard I'm replying to, that none in this fucking thread can name where all vale comes from.
Bitcoin had intrinsic value for one fucking reason, and none has yet named it here

>>57466566
MMT is a fact of the current system and hence something you have to accept. No one cares about the "intrinsic value" of your imaginary internet currency, go talk to some fucking cryptography lolbertarian nerds about that shit.

>>57460934
Energy. If you want to get deep into it, 100% of assets derive their value from energy, even gold, Bitcoin just does so very directly.

>>57466668
Kek is punishing me for using a comma instead of a period before the word Bitcoin. I can feel it.

>>57466611
>MMT is a fact of the current system
If only you weren't so dumb and could see how mmt is like a junkie going for his last high...
Billions of people will die because of mmt, it's a matter of when, unless technological progress makes us able to close the holes before they make everything collapse.
MMT disregards of reality itself, takes the fundamental reality of what's valuable and throws it out of the window, condemning the system to an eternal leverage until the ability of the system to provide supply is demolished.

You are dumb, and understand nothing.
"magic Internet money" has more value than the dollar, it's just that mmt has to force more people out of itself through systemic slow collapse, for them to seek the safety of blockchain.

One thing in the world is what gives value to things, I've thing only, and no fiat since nazi Germany is backed by it.

>>57466668
That's not true though. You can spend a bunch of energy to create something, but if the thing you create is worthless then the energy spent doesn't matter unless you can get the energy back out of the thing.

>>57467172
Such things cease to exist in free market capitalism, usually quite quickly.

>>57466699
There is nothing wrong with MMT when used properly with good demographics that produce value. The problem in America is we have welfare system that is supported by a shrinking white population producing value with a growing parasitic class taking from it.

Bitcoin IS the commodity.

>>57467708
The problem with MMT is simply that it doesn't take account of...

WORK!

There i said it, WORK, WORK, WORK, WORK, WORK, WORK.

WORK is the essence that gives value to things, scarcity is given by the difficulty of obtaining something, obtaining that something requires more Work, be it more as in effort or in time.

MMT throws the WORK out of the window, and says "we choose the value of things".
NO that cannot work, it creates enormous distortions in the market, and those distortions can be compensated only by exponential growth.

It becomes a ponzi scheme where everyone dies because growth eventually, and inevitably slows down.

BITCOIN IS BACKED BY MOTHERFUCKING WORK

MONOPOLY MONEY IS BACKED BY PROMISES OF VIOLENCE AND JACK FUCKING SHIT ONCE THOSE PROMISES DIE.

GOLD IS BACKED BY THE WORK IT TAKES TO EXTRACT ITS PATHETIC AMOUNTS GIVING IT SCARCITY

YOU FUCKING NIGGERS ITT ALL OF YOU SHAME
>muh energy
>muh pyramid scheme
>muh hype
>muh trust
>muh scarcity
FUCKING WORK YOU SUBHUMAN NIGGER CATTLE
IT'S CALLED PROOF OF FUCKING WORK FOR A REASON

>>57468432
>>57468420
Work is not value.

>>57468661
nigger

>>57468661
>>57468857
I'll elaborate:
Work is not value, work gives something value, nigger

>>57468880
>>57468857
Work does not give something value. Work can be used to create something of value, or it can be wasted on something of little to no value.

>>57468923
And that's where MMT is born from this retarded take.
>work doesn't give value
> meanwhile work creates something of value, therefore giving raw materials more value
retard negro, demand decides how valuable the value of your work has.

>>57460934
Every fiat currency eventually drops to zero.
Bitcoin will one day go to zero.
Don't store your wealth in Bitcoin.

>>57468977
What are you talking about?

>>57469485
You wouldn't understand

>>57469294
post nose

>>57469510
Bitcoin was likely created by US intelligence.

>>57469294
>BTC is fiat
you don't even know what the word fiat means. BTC is not issued by an authority so is therefore, by definition, not fiat.

>>57469544
>BTC is not issued by an authority
Bitcoin is like fiat, only worse.

>>57469565
ok retard

>>57469577
>ok retard
I made this for you.

>>57460934

Electricity

>>57466668

Correct answer

Gold is also "proof of work"

Someone has to dig it up, refine it, and mint it to be money
BTC does this differently, but same process

>>57469618
issued =/= authorized, retard

DUMB DUMBS

Bitcoin is a commodity, it commoditises Data!!!!!
The Original protocol works, Btc changes the protocol hence why it's Broken. Bitcoin does 1 Million transactions per second in the next 8 Months. Bitcoin still exists today in it's original intended form, You just have to Find it.

>>57460934
Gold used to be a currency retard.

>>57470018
Research terranode, Bitcoin is a Global financial system. With many Comanies doing various tasks on the network. They Psyoped you into thinking bitcoin Needed to be small and run on raspberry Pies. Any realistic system will have to scale and that requires the Next Generation of entrepreneurs working on bitcoin for bitcoin.

Currency and Money are two different things. Bitcoin is Money, bitcoin is not a Currency. and I'm talking about the Original Bitcoin BSV which will scale soon to 1 million tps and More within 8 Months

>>57469618
Shove some gold up your ass and kill yourself poor shiny rock boomer nigger.

>>57460934
bitcoin is digital cash

Retards think they're a fad but I think beanie babies are here to stay

>>57468420

Hi

>>57468432
>IT'S CALLED PROOF OF FUCKING WORK FOR A REASON

People work to make the electricity, people work to build the computers, and people work to keep the software distributed.

It's just slightly more dependant on civilization than gold is, however you cannot send a gold coin to a Venezuelan in 3 seconds.

>>57466360
False. Remember, essentially all of gold's value is of the monetary type, almost all gold, whether as bullion or jewelry, is just sitting around being a unit of account/store of value. Bitcoin is not "digital gold", bitcoin is a revolutionary step forward in units of account. Gold was used because it's natural properties lent itself to the function, but that's it, it has always been the "unit of account"/store of value, the monetary use, that we've wanted. Bitcoin does this function far better than gold, fixed supply, weightless, can be transferred trustlessly and securely etc etc.

>>57460934
Just be aware it's not a pump and dump scheme, unlike some shitcoins. But hey anon, if short-term gains are your goal, consider investing in altcoins like NXRA, MATIC, DUA, and XRP, as many are currently doing.

>>57470550
Everyone is aware of that, right? Yes, it's the safest long-term bet in the space. Make sure to secure a self-sovereign AA wallet for added security and keep accumulating.

>>57472848
>doesn't read
>answers an out of context answer
>leaves
>still unable to tell what gives both gold and bitcoin value

Most of you itt are 80 iq genius gorillas

>>57471091
I must have missed the part where beanie babies kickstarted DNMs and reached half a billion dollars in liquidity

>>57460934
>Bitcoin is digital

>>57471091
Beanie Babies did not last 15 years.

>>57469524
To what end?

>>57469294
Non sequitur.

>>57464796
Bitcoin did not exist in JP Morgan's day. Jamie Dimon owns no gold.

>>57473907
To save the US from inevitable fiat doom, and give it a chance to play on a more even global playing field

>>57470096
Based and maloneypilled

>>57473898
The average fiat last 27 years.
Who knows if Bitcoin will still be around in 2035.

>>57474791
>subhuman negroid doesn't know what fiat means
Listen retard, fiat is backed by promises of violence, the more violence you're able to distribute the higher you can impose other nations like the third one shithole you inhabit to use your fiat.

Bitcoin, gold, silver, and any other commodities are backed by work, work to extract them, work to create them, work to make them usable etc...
The value after is quantified by the demand.
Bitcoin has demand because it is a better form of money (not credit) than anything else that's ever existsted in the history of humanity, and eventually bitcoin, unless something better is created, which is not unlikely, will become settlement layer for multinational trade and debt issuance, it'll take the role of bonds as it'll become unuseable as simple digital cash due to transaction fees bloat.

You're a retard, or a boomer which is interchangeable.

>>57474791
>Listen retard
Are you in middle school?

>>57461015
>having inteinsic value decreases its value, look at platinum
you dumb mother fucker, platinum is a substitue of palladium (or vice-versa). its price dropped due to reduced production and palladium being used instead in Cat converts and what not

>gold has little functional demand
its functional demand is that it holds wealth mostly. bitcoin is not a store of value since its so widely swings. its gambling dude

>the only intrinsic value anything has is itself
this is so mind numbingly stupid. i suppose zimbobwe bucks can be redeemed

>the halving marks
the halving is fucking cope, after blackrock and the normies got involved in bitcin being a security it was FUCKING OVER

>>57475694
>platinum is a substitue[sic] of palladium
Pd and Pt catalytic properties are quite distinct, they are not interchangeable. Second, the point stands, Pt demand is dominated by functional demand rendering it unusable as a store of value.
>gold holds value through magic!
Store of Value demand is not functional demand, gold is the best natural money in no small part due to its low functional demand, enabling its demand to be dominated by SoV demand, that is WHY it functions well as a SoV
>Bitcoin bad! muh volatility!
An artifact of low capitalization, it's properties better meet SoV demand so its meteoric rise shall continue unabated.
>muh blackrock
Market manipulation is impossible in-the-limit, if it weren't central planning would be feasible as central planning could be implemented entirely through price manipulation, but it is not possible (knowledge problem), hence market manipulation must necessarily also be impossible