/biz/ - Business & Finance

If you got a degree in art or something, sure.

>>563635
>says a delusional fag majoring in worthless business management

>>563638
Nope. Engineering.

If you focused on your GPA and participated in no organizations, internships, etc. then yes, you are going to get a shitty job, regardless of major.

>>563659
Pretty much this. You need to network, participate, and be involved in what you want to do.

>>563632
STEM with a good grade and intership guarantee a nice job.
Failing with a good college degree or succeeding without one is quite uncommon.

>>563632
In the UK there is some truth to this, but as has been said in this thread it depends on your degree, your University and your approach.

>>563659
Nonsense. I graduated CS and got a brilliant job right out of school. I never even went to lectures because it was shit.

>>563638
>Being this mad that you got an art degree
Topkek

If you go STEM and apply yourself, getting a decent job out of college isn't that hard.

>>563659
Other than internships and frats with alumni that give a shit, this is bullshit.

What you do socially in school won't amount to a hill of beans in the real world.

>>563717

Except it does. But good luck thinking your undergrad GPA and major defines your life.

>>563649

Cool you Indian or something?

>>563722
Except it doesn't. If you aren't attending Ivy League, or other top tier school, your frat and social behavior won't amount to shit. I left college, and got a job in my field within six months, and that was seven years ago.

When looking at newbie resumes, the last thing I give a shit about is who's knob they slobbed while at college. If they don't have a half decent GPA, then the likelihood they have a half working brain isn't very high; this gets confirmed time and again during the interviews I have to handle.

For most degrees yes. Even for le STEM major master race it's also true, I know STEM majors who make pretty shitty pay with their degrees that someone with only a high school diploma could outdo.

>>563740

Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong. Keep posting big boy.

>>563745
>No rebuttals
Okay

>>563741
Yes, even STEM majors may not do so well out of college without an internship. Even if the first job sucks, it is a stepping stone, not an end. Internships help a lot out of college.

>>563745
Good luck with those "connections" of yours out in the real world. Hope they make up for that 2.15 GPA of yours.

>>563748

If joining organizations and internships drops your GPA to 2.15, you cannot manage time very well and/or aren't very smart.

I tell my college students learn a Trade like AC Repair, not some useless degree.

She must be an art major

>>563754

Kind of useless when the car salesmen I mean career counselor is saying they'll make six figures out of graduation if they do good in LGBT studies

I teach Liberal Arts or a waste of $34,000 as I like to put it.

>>563659

Internships? As in work for free? You white collar folks never cease to amaze me in your stupidity. It really is no wonder most of you are having difficulty even getting on at taco bell these days.

>>563780
There is such thing as a paid internship. Companies will be a lot more discerning about who they select for these positions, and expect the warm bodies to be slightly more productive than a houseplant.

Certain industries like print and online publishing do abuse the shit out of unpaid interns though.

Internship == Work experience
For STEM, this is a big plus since it will mean less break-in time at a real position.

>>563717
>>563740
>>563748

Whats up with all the schizoid fags?

I got a well paying job because a buddy from school hooked me up.

>>563804
That's cool that you got a hookup. How many of your classmates also got jobs that way?

>>563780

Free or not, it's experience. Please don't say you turned down internships because they didn't pay to an employer ever. It will show how envious you are and you will never get hired.

My social connections got me a job in my field before graduating. I'm going to graduate with 1.5 years of experience. I don't pay tuition, and have a bunch of other experiences.

If you don't get active, and find opportunities like that, you're going to be boned no matter what.

>>563807

What the fuck do I care? I got one, thats what's important.

Anyway, do well in school and maintain good relations with classmates. Those two are not mutually exclusive.

>>563796
>There is such thing as a paid internship.
Except there is. I'm doing one. So are all my friends.

true if you got into something stupid like woman studies.

>>563836
yes, that's exactly what he just said. Can you even read, m8?

These types of questions are interesting, because the value of a degree is different depending on what you are expecting it to do for you.

For many positions you need a degree simply to not have your CV thrown out in the first round, but it means no more than that.

As for how a degree relates to future prospects, the data is a little skewed. It would be safe to say that those that attend college probably have a better outcome than those who don't. This probably has more to do with the reasons that many choose not to go to college, which reflects in their life directions.

I didn't go to college, instead I did a Trade.
later in life I got into marketing and sales and now own my business. I am 37yo and a millionaire, so I don't think you can say not attending college has impacted me too greatly.

If you have the ability and drive to succeed, then you probably will whether you attend college or not. There are some advantages I found in not going to college, no debt and I am not constrained to thinking the same way as everyone who has been trained with an MBA. The great part is I have accountants I can consult when I need access to learning I don't have, so if you can buy in knowledge and experience, then what is the reason for college?

I started full time work at 17 with just a high school degree.

>>563717
Being a social person in college is far more important than what GPA you graduate with. Not only will you have a fuckload more fun during college, have better social skills (which are infinitely more important than scores on a test),but you'll have made connections with a shit ton of people, and from there, getting a job is not that hard because you know a guy who knows a guy.

>>564694
Pretty much this. I've been working for mediocre firms my entire career, despite the fact that I had an 88% average in school (which I suppose is about a 3.9 GPA, on the OLSAS scale). Meanwhile all my classmates with high-60s or low-70s averages, who I often wrote off as idiots during group projects or study sessions, ended up going to work for high-profile companies doing really cool things, mostly because they knew a guy who knew a guy.

I still wouldn't say being social is "far more important", because a good GPA usually indicates that you absorbed some technical knowledge that will be of use later. But I would agree that the old-country attitude of "school first, friends later" (which is how I was brought up) really isn't as honourable or useful as it sounds.

>>563740
>and that was seven years ago.

A lot has happened in the last 7 years

>worst economic crisis since the great depression
>a weak job market recovery for mid and high paying jobs like STEM
>government and private industry have shilled hard for STEM degrees which made for more STEM grads vying for the same number of jobs which reduces the value of a STEM degree

Make a new resume with you work history prior to graduating and say you are a class of 2014 engineering grad. Let me know how many job offers you get.

>>563780
>Internships? As in work for free? You white collar folks never cease to amaze me in your stupidity. It really is no wonder most of you are having difficulty even getting on at taco bell these days.
Computer science mastermen regularly get $20-$40/hr for summer internships. Free internships are for 3.2 GPA business majors.

>>564694
>implying
one of my bros just sat in his room playing video games and studying all 4 years. did internships over the summer. he already has an offer to do programming full-time for 90k right out of undergrad.

>>564723

I don't think playing video games is detrimental when you are taking a CS/computer-related major though.

Source: I was a CS major myself.

>>563632
Absolutely true.I stopped going to college after a time. I already had very significant developed interests in other fields and college was just a big slow time waster for me. The classes that related to my interests were too slow, and in a lot of those I should have been in a class 3-4 levels higher because of so much self study into the various topics. Other classes seemed like a waste of time and I wasn't interested enough to keep up with the work because I had other things to work on.
I actually still frequent my local universities. I do my own private research and development into various fields out of sheer (partially economic interest) scientific interest that somehow relates to my other goals. I frequently email professors from all over the world and exchange various ideas relating to certain topics.
So you could say that I did "drop out of college", but what people don't realize is that people who drop out of college to go do something else and turn out successful are people who were already intensely working on some goal or just "something", and that college was taking too much of their time up. Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, all people like that, who dropped out of college, had this quality. People who drop out of college because they are lazy and procrastinate and party too much generally don't go on to be super rich and successful "college drop outs"

>>565092
With that said, college is not some magical place for success. I think a lot of people who to college because they have no other option and they don't want to work at McDonalds their whole life. A lot of people develop genuine interests in college, most people that is, but college is a sort of one-track thing. It takes 2-8 years to get a degree, but in most of those fields, you could learn all of that knowledge in less than a year if you self-studied out of personal interest.

I'm not saying college is bad, or is like some last resort second option.... I'm just saying it is a source for education. Anyone whose life goal is to "graduate high school, go to college, get a nice paying job, and get married", might be in for a disappointment. People think in terms of "oh I have to do college so I can get a good job". This is a bad way to think. Don't go to college just so you can get a well paying job. Go to college to cultivate yourself, in aspects that personally interest you! You don't need to be a millionaire to be happy in life, but if your main goal in life is to become super rich, then "going to college" isn't the answer.

College is a place for getting knowledge, and if you want to be super rich and successful, then you will find out that knowledge is beyond invaluable. You just need to figure out what knowledge you need to get, relating to your goal, and how you want to be successful.

>>565093
A perfect example is..... I see so many brilliant professors with Ph.D's in various fields, brilliant people. Many of these people are not millionaires, and barely make over 80k per year. I see them talking about concepts and ideas that have brilliant commercial applications that could make billions of dollars.... commercial ideas that could have been figured out and developed with 1/8th of the education that they have. How come they don't do it? Who knows. There's a million possible reasons. The reason I like to settle with is that "they never tried to think in terms of making money with their knowledge.
Knowledge is powerful. They tell you this from when you are very young, and most kids just believe teachers are just saying it to make it interesting. The truth is nobody can understand just how powerful knowledge is, until they define for themselves what power is. If you want power, and riches, and you can define exactly what power is, then you can begin to see why knowledge is power.

>>563635
I majored in engineering and work in art (animation)

Feels weird man, but I love what I do. Honestly i think doing engineering taught me the discipline to make my business work, i dont think id be where I am now if i went into animation school instead.

>>563836
Holy shit you can't read.

>>563836
Don't feel too bad. I thought it said "There is no such thing ..." when I skimmed through it at first too.

>>563836
Fuckin retard

>>563835
He was making the point that you got lucky and that does fuck all for anyone else.

>>563659
you need to focus on more on internships then GPA, that being said you need to ensure you have a GPA of > 3.0 / 4.0 to secure an internship, they dont just give internships away to just passing academic fuckups

I am a Portuguese lawyer and this is becoming increasingly the reality in my country

>>563796
>Certain industries like print and online publishing do abuse the shit out of unpaid interns though.

I'm an english major (You can laugh at me now) looking to get into publishing, with technical writing as a backup. Hell, with this job market I'll be a librarian. Anything but a teacher.

Since I don't have that many years to live anyways (~15 at most) due to medical reasons, how fucked am I?

>>566921
Top kek. I scored an internship at Google last year with absolutely zero questions being given about my GPA of 2.5.

>>566930

cystic fibrosis? Technical writing and editing is good but you need to know about technical stuff. So start taking the STEM classes you need to know what you want to write.

There is a pretty big demand for copywriters, particularly SEO writing, which varies from shit pay for basically churning out nonsense to pretty good paying writing for specialized niches. I'd look into that if you want to write and actually make money.

>>566931

Yes GPA isn't that important. You nened to have things and experiences to talk about in interviews.

>>566930
>technical writing as a backup.
Technical writing makes a great secondary skill.

It might make a great primary skill if you really focus on it.

A lot of medium sized IT businesses and heavy industry are sorely lacking in the documentation department. You may be able to leverage yourself there.

Majoring in geology not sure if that is good idea with crude oil prices hitting rock bottom

>>566936
Nah, it's a brain thing.
Thanks for the advice. The english program at my school is pretty light, so I should be able to take extra classes or pick up a minor without affecting my degree much. I don't know much about copywriting specifically, but I'll definitely look into it. My passion lies with books, but medical insurance is a bitch.

>>566937
Thanks for the advice, anon. Some validation feels good, since most people assume all english majors want to be poets.

I love you, /biz/.

>>563709
This, usually people saying you're fucked no matter your degree are delusional. In something like CS you'll be fine even if you don't put any extra effort.

>>563780
>Internships? As in work for free? You white collar folks never cease to amaze me in your stupidity. It really is no wonder most of you are having difficulty even getting on at taco bell these days.

Yeah! Because, you know, it's SO comfy knowing that taco bell will PAY you $10/hr guaranteed income forever right out of the gate!!

Who the fuck would want to work for an intern's meager stipend when such instant glory, prestige, knowledge, experience and wealth lay right down the street at burgerville?

>>563780
>work for free
No. That's dumb.
I don't really care about having a paid or unpaid internship, the money itself doesn't mean much to be because it's simply not a lot.
However, being paid to work means that the company you work for is actually investing in you rather than kind of letting you in the building and making you do work.
They're paying you to do something, so they expect more out of you, and you get more out of it in exchange.
That's why you seek paid internships.
Unpaid internships are for losers.

>>565100
>stem stealing art job

>>563699
I used to work in the jobcentre.

I once had a 25+ jobseeker sit down with another adviser and complain that there were "no jobs". He had a degree in philosophy, same as the adviser and only wanted to work "in his field".

There's no pleasing some people.

>>568068
>can confirm did an internship that was gave me like a $500 a month stipend which was nothing.
>All I did was sit in the office all day and pretend to be doing work
>Boss gave me a project that was completley unrelated to my major or the job description
>Basically just doing work a monkey could do in excel
>Purposely took days to finish a 3 hr excel spreadsheet to avoid the next useless one.
>I should have sued for not teaching me anything as well as not paying me

>>563649
you sure that's a safe bet? everyone i ask about what they are studying says engineering. i hope there is going to be enough jobs for engineer fags

>>563709
Do you live in the US?
>>563717
STEM is such a buzz word. It really depends on your specific degree, some are way over sold and there is one out of every 300 with a degree that are actually need. You'll get a job, just not a good one.
>>563796
that is called a job, not a internship

>>565094
In what field(s) do you R&D in?

>>563722

>got a 3.0 simulataenous degree in psych and philosophy
>participated in every club I could
>held offices in at least three
>contributing writer
>going to conferences any chance I get

>I'm working on-call for 14.50

>>570046

Your fields aren't particularly lucrative and are over saturated at the entry level TBH. Did you do any internships?

>>570046
Wow. Thought about mastering in I/O or Dev? Tardwrangling pays good money, I hear

>>565092
>>565093
>>565094

>>563659
no one told me about this. Never knew about this. I got wronged

>>563632

I worked in a 7.50 an hour job until I got my state job working for 11.50 an hour.

I plan to be self-employed by the end of 2015.

>>571241

I got a BS in criminal justice.

>>563638
Is business management really that bad? That's the program I am applying to and you're spooking me

There's jobs, it's just the standards got really really HIGH, like, way too fucking high.

It doesn't matter, I'm shit at talking to people and maintaining relationships, and I always feel a sense of dread and responsibility trying to reach out to people, so I generally don't try to make new ones. As such, I don't know anyone to give me a friendship job out of college.

>>563632
Very true for a lot of people. If you study a soft degree and dont have connections it's almost a guarantee these days. You either end up working a bottom rung retail/food job or at some non-profit bullshit making the same amount of money as the retail slave if you are getting paid at all. Even engineering is not as good as it used to be.

>>571251
No one will let you manage shit just because you have a paper that says you are qualified. People with experience are the ones who are put in management positions, often regardless of their education as long as they know how the shit they manage works.

mathematics major, am i gonna make it if I don't want to work in finance?

>>563796
Almost all engineering internships are paid internships. I made enough money to buy a guitar & amp during summer, and still have enough money left over for my semester budget. Suck it.

>>572574
Math needs specialization. Didn't you talk to the proffs in your school? Literally ask them what jobs are avaialabe for math grads.

>>572580

I'm still in my bachelor, so there's enough time left to specialize. whenever i ask one of my profs they say things like "oh there's all kind of jobs" but nobody ever goes into detail. starting to think this is a huge scam and i'll end up getting pimped by an insurance company

>>563632
Its comics like these that destroy this country.
Everyone thinks the loser is someone who has a job that dosnt require "skilled labor"

College allows morons to carry an ego on their shoulders along with an attitude of entitlement.

Keep sending those "stupid jobs that americans wont do" to china. When china starts to produce real innovative products with their own capital, this country will have no choice but to bow down to global free market metrics. you cant have a trade war when everyone else is buying from the most innovative country, it dosnt work that way now and it wont work that way in the future no matter if the Chinese continue to exploit the fuck out of workers ect.

Did 4 years for a Neuroscince degree. Best I could get would be a research job for 25K/year. But hated the field.

Joined the Army for 6 years.

Back in Trade School for Millwright (one year program). Job with 97% employment. 60K first year minimum (10% raise a year for next 4 years as an apprentice).

>>569324
You tell me bro

>>566967
Underrated post

>>573612

>start at 100k
>rent is 1800 a month for 1 bedroom condo
>spending nearly a fourth of your pre tax income to live in a shithole
>still have to drive 30 miles to work

Sounds pretty ducky to me

>>573146

but those "stupid jobs" literally don't pay enough to survive let alone thrive, without the constant threat of one little thing going wrong and literally fucking your life.

>>573622
beats working at mcdonalds fuckface.

>>573628

>beats working at McDonalds
>they make 15 / hr
>free health insurance
>free food
>cheap housing
>free education
>takes your wallet and calls you a bitch nigga
>spends the money on a foty
>can't defend yourself cause no guns
>your high tax rate pays for all of this

I make 100k and my mortgage is 2k. Ofc I have a 4 bedroom house, savings and a pool though. In CA as well.

>>565100
You started your own animation biz? What's the story?

Lolwut OP here. Why is this thread still alive?

>>563638
>tfw dual major in bus. management and IS
>tfw years of experience in IT
>tfw jobs already lined up

>>573699
biz is a dumb slow board

>>571251

You have people coming out of school with no real world experience and nothing more than Mr. Goldenbergfeinsteins word about how to run a business, which crashes and bombs in the real world.

Business management degrees are one of the reasons that the corporate world is so shit today. It more or less created the concept of the incompetent boss who can't actually do the work that he's managing other that are doing it.

There's a huge push against this now and you're never going to get

The one exception is if you do something like what this guy is doing >>573756 and double major so that you can actually do the work that you're going to be managing others for. At least this way you're not completely worthless and you look good on paper

>>563632
It's absolutely true.
I've just met a guy working at a warehouse for sears who has a bachelors in HISTORY
>mfw

>>573780
look at these articles hating on MBA's
http://www.comparebusinessproducts.com/fyi/top-20-reasons-mbas-are-overrated

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/blogs/mba_admissions/archives/2012/01/the_mbas_value_debatable.html

http://pantsinacan.com/2009/03/26/mbas-are-overrated-and-kinda-stupid-too/

>>573582
>Neuroscince degree

The neuroscientist who can't spell neuroscience.

Take out the first three sentences and I suspect we have your true life story.

>>573636

What about being a Business Analyst at some F500 company?

Man, these threads really annoy me because all they do is ruin dreams. Following the "advice" here everyone would be a plumber or an engineer.
Seriously, do your "worthless" degree in geology, do it in psychology, do a MBA or whatever if you like it. Just put enough work on the side lines while you do it. Follow the formula

WORK + EDUCATION = SUCCESS

and you can't go wrong. Don't listen to any of these fucks here "knowing" (lol yeah, because you all graduated in 5 different degrees and compared the job prospects of each) what's best for you to do.

You will always make excuse for everything. Somebody studied legit crap like Womens Studies and is a 100m+ IB these days? Oh sure, he just had luck with "sucking dick" of his managers, right? Stop this poisonous mentality already and just take what is rightfully yours. Work hard for it and don't cry how unfair this or that is.

>>573780
MBAs are an unfortunate situation. I would only recommend getting them if your employer specifically wants you to get one. This is so they feel better about promoting you with some credentials rather than just your experience. I wouldn't recommend getting one if your goal is to find a job.

Better to join the military for 5 years as officer and qoute that as your leadership experience.

>10 weeks at OCS is going to teach you more about leading and inspiring people in stressful situations than any MBA program will.

Taking out the leadership stuff, a MBA is the equivalent of a business minor.

>>574467
Agreed. I know probably more than 10 people with MBAs and only ONE is doing anything with it. (He started a part-time biz on the side). Everyone else went back to their normal jobs because of they paycut they'd have to take to get to a different track.

>>563632
fake. A woman would never be happy over the achievements of another woman

>>569324
the idea of getting an engineering major is that you don't necessarily have to get a job in engineering - it's just a hard major, so people will assume you're smart

kind of like how if you major in sociology everyone will assume you're a retard, but in reverse

plus, if you ever decide to throw your life away, you can always switch to a different major halfway through and not have to take any classes that you wouldn't already be taking/have taken

engineering is just the generic major to get to prove you're not a liberal arts student - although most people would be better off getting a degree in chemistry, law, accounting, or pretty much anything, if they actually want to go into the field they're studying, since engineering over saturated as fuck

>doing a shit degree
>no friends
>no extra work put in

Looks like its teaching english for me, Cambodia here I come

>>574636
underrated post

>>574646

If you want to get an engineering job, you MUST have engineering internships while in school. If you don't have experience going into the workforce, you won't get in.

>>574318
The point is to give them a dose a reality.

Work + wrong degree <= Work + no degree.

Maybe less than because you wasted 4 years of work experience.

College should only be seen as an investment not fun time for doing what you love. No need to pay a university for that.

>>574665
I'm living proof that is not necessarily true. It makes engineering sound like a social click where they only let their buddies in. It doesn't even make much sense unless you're only applying in a terrible over-saturated market for (whatever) type of engineering you're in.

> graduated from college with no debts, 23 years old
> 46.5k salary in a country where median salary is around 17k
> still hate my job...

>>574318
>Following the "advice" here everyone would be a plumber or an engineer.
I get the opposite impression: if you took the advice around here, everybody would be a financial analyst, compsci major, and/or quantitative analyst. Not everybody can be a hot hedge fund manager and steering people towards more practical pursuits isn't a bad idea either.

>>574646
>it's just a hard major, so people will assume you're smart
Not really, a lot of businesses are going to want the closest match to the position they want to fill. Colleges offer mostly theory, but also a smattering of skills that businesses are going to look for in a candidate. Few people are going to consider a blank slate no matter how bright.

>>574665
I'm also proof that one can get an engineering job without an internship. Yes, it is a lot harder. Yes, it certainly helps. A lot of lesser colleges have garbage career fairs and interning programs; it isn't too hard to fall through the cracks. Sure, a grad won't make the big bux out of the gate, but he doesn't have to stay at any place too long.

>>574754
Despite the Hollywood cliche, engineering fields cam be very social.

>>574808
Yes, the work is team based, the hiring process is not, IMHO that is. I went through college and never did an internship or anything social or extra beyond the course work. Did publish a research with a professor. Certainly never bothered to check who was at a career fair.

Sent out applications by email to firms I checked on who were having certain issues at the time. My offer was to solve a certain issue from 9006 integration, not an issue in IE now, but this was a decade ago.

Sales, management, and accounting needs to kiss ass and smooze, any idiot with a regulation required CPA can sign the forms and sit in the chair, but the guy on the other side of the table also has problems which he needs engineers to solve for him, I haven't needed to play politics yet, or even be friendly at work, and hope to never to have to. 12 years down, just 15 years left and I'll retire to PI.

>take some credits in community college arizona
>move to washington and get severe depression which reflects on my attendance and freshman year in 4 year college
>gpa drops from 3.4 to 1.5 from not even dropping classes and getting all ffs for 2 semester.
>3 years of NEETdom
>move to california
>enroll in 4 programming college classes this fall to see if i like it
>one is a shitty online class about visual basic and excel
>the other is basically like a really shitty computer history class
>drop out of those 2 and keep intro to c ++ and java
>lost all drive 2 months ago
>haven't studied for my due tomorrow java final or finished the last project for the c++ class
>literally haven't done shit in 3 weeks, haven't even gone to class or even left my room in 5 days
I am relapsing. I don't know why I thought it wouldn't end like this. I know I have no future or job opportunities when my employers ask what the fuck I've been doing as a 24 year old with no degree or job experience if I ever even want to apply for entry level stuff.

>>575190
Take this shit back to /r9k/, no one fucking cares.