/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>57332407
Close. It's actually XMR and LTC.

>>57332407
Yep. good you noticed. both serve as excellent p2p money as satoshi originally intended. Also BCH XMR atomic swaps are incoming. they are in beta (being tested). I wonder if its worth adding LTC ? all are POW (so permissionless)

>>57332419
LTC doesn't have any scaling solution

>>57332422
ah yes I forgot, they have Segwit and LN... LMAO. then its XMR and BCH. maybe RVN,(ravencoin). idk about this new kaspa thing. if it dumps maybe i'll get a bag.

>>57332422
BCH shares the same algo as btc so big farms can 51% attack it if they feel petty
BCH has like 1% of BTC hashrate. very scary
if I held BCH this would constantly worry me

>>57332489
farms are purely economic actors. BSV tried to 51% BCH and pools swapped over to BCH at a loss to avoid losing a revenue stream.

>>57332506
>short BCH
>51% attack it
>make money
>ruin BCHs credibility at the same time

>>57332551
>non-centralized competition steps in and raises the hashrate
>BTC hashrate stalls and mempool clogs to hell while DAA fails to do anything in time
>chain death

>>57332567
btc really does have a chance at chain death with the 2 weeks DAA. if half the hashpower goes offline it could happen. some state entitiy could probably feasablily make buttcoin go offline

>>57332682
>>57332567
also the twoo week daa could mean that if somone discovers quantum hash solving they could mine all the coins in two weeks before the difficulty goes up hard enough.

>>57332407
No, it's XMR and Chainlink.
This entire board is infested with feds and shills and no one cares.

>>57332700
token not needed sar

>>57332407
Plus ETH and LInk. Link will surpass ETH I think. It just takes an excruciatingly long time, apparently.

>>57332700
token of the chainstank is not needed.

>>57332722
CashTokens enables smartcontracts, defi, etc on BCH L1. Will be interesting when the market catches on.

>>57332745
is there anything interesting to trade on the cash token network? most tokens are tokens not needed ....

>>57332756
This is true, it's pretty new. But then again, most everything other than XMR and BCH are not needed. That was the point of the OP, but people love to gamble on shitcoins.

yes the failed altcoin created by chinese miners and centralized exchanges because they had a temper tantrum when they realized everyone else didn't respect them or their ideas

fucking losers trying to associate their shitcoin of choice with the real juice

>>57332698
>quantum hash solving
average bcash iq right here
this is why you're still poor after a decade of everyone throwing money at people who didn't chase chinese altcoins

>>57332781
Seems pretty decentralized to me

>>57332407
bcash doesn't make sense in a world with litecoin. eat a dick.

>>57332899
LTC has 0 development and got rugged by its own creator, you're not a serious person

its been 10 years XRM is a fucking failure buddy

>>57332903
BCH is a ghost chain compared to LTC tho. what's up with that?
why did the masses choose LTC over BCH?

>>57332923
it's basically the only coin used on DNMs dumbass

>>57332422
>>57332433
MWEB is a scaling solution. By default it's 4x the scaling of BTC, MWEB adds to that exponentially.

>>57332932
what happens when LTC mempool fills and fees go up? what will be the solution? there isn't one. no plan. no development. what will be the LTC marketing strategy then?

>>57332903
LTC has more development now than ever.
>rugged by creator
Dude sold his stash, but kept working on it. Satoshi kept his stash and stopped working on it. Why do you prefer the latter? It makes no sense.

>>57332948
sorry, but this sounds like cope. you're not addressing why LTC is so much more popular despite what you call no development.
puts BCH in an even worse light

>>57332947
what does MWEB do for scaling? it's a privacy function, like CashFusion

>>57332903
LTC isn't that bad. a lot of merchants accept it. that's what matters. usually I try to pay with XMR but a lot of times its not available so i have ot switch to LTC, BCH is available more than XMR and at similarly accepted rates as LTC. sometimes i do BCH sometimes I do LTC. i have started buying BCH thie past few months. i think its finally bottomoed out.

>>57332948
Use the privacy extension block side chain built on it. It has it's own architecture with steal addresses and CT. It's better than the built in coinmixer that BCH uses. That said, BCH is fine. It's what BTC should've been. I like BCH and HODL BCH. I just like Litecoin too.

>>57332974
No, it has it's own architecture, it's not like Cash Fusion. You don't understand how extension blocks help scaling? You got some research to do I guess.

>>57332973
the obvious answer is marketing, but that will only take it so far. its marketing is built on a use case which it cannot sustain.

>>57332982
im getting a bag of LTC. then my digital money is truly decentralized. NON-POW coins don't need to apply. I just buy them and then sell them for profit and buy the real digital money (XMR, BCH, LTC, ???) there's only a handful of fair pow coins.

>>57332998
the coin that has 0 developers and got rugged by its creator has better marketing than BCH?

>>57333002
Yeah the network effects of LTC are far beyond BCH just due to the head start and the fact that it has greater acceptance. There's two reasons I prefer LTC to BCH (I have a bag of both though).
1.) Network effects. It does like 10x the volume that BCH does and user growth is beyond it.
2.) Uses a different consensus than BTC. BTC and BCH both using SHA-256 could end up being a problem down the road as they compete for HP.

>>57332407
Should be schizos and degens as Arnold, Pedophiles and Drug Dealers as the negro, Monero and BTC the hands.

>>57333046
yes the difference mining algo makes LTC a nice addition to my freedom-money bags.

BCH has SHA256
XMR has randomX
LTC has Scrypt (if im correct).

I'm also thinking about things like RVN and even DGB but I think DGB is dead. Maybe Dogecoin.

the trick is to trade the centrralized shitcoins and then put the profit in the real digital permissonless money, before the herd realizes that all these proof of stake coins are scams. and all the tokens are money grabs

>>57333015
No development, yet has recently had it's own privacy side chain built on it. I guarantee you that's more work than the built in coin mixer cash fusion.

>>57333069
^BCH not BTC, I’m phonefagging while waging.

>>57333046
LTC, because it adopted the changes from BTC Core such as SegWit + Taproot, has the same Ordinals problem as on BTC.
People can fill up the blockspace by bloating the witness data with non-signature data like NFT's, audio clips, etc.
For not a lot of money.

To me, competing with BTC for hashrate is not a negative, SHA256d is the most mature mining industry, if BCH price increases it gets way more hashes,

>>57333073
even if development stalls for 5 years it really doesn't matter, as long as the next block is being mined and merchants accept it.

>>57333081
So I think the extension block fixes the JPEG problem, so basically it's fixed before it ever becomes an issue.

>>57333103
how is the MWEB adoption?

>>57333107
how is the BCH adoption? still a ghost chain? any day now

>>57333081
See I think using SHA-256 is a problem, because BCH is a real threat to BTC. The people that have invested trillions in BTC aren't going to let BCH gain HP on them. As such, there will always be the threat of 51% attack on BCH anytime it becomes too powerful.

>>57333118
it certainly incentivizes people in BTC to attack BCH, as seen in this thread. But BTC in its design disincentivizes its own use. I don't believe this to be sustainable.

>>57333107
Mobile comes out in the next upgrade v24, we will see how it goes. I suspect that'll be the go to for everyone after it's implemented

>>57333117
does that mean its low? if it was good you'd tell me, right?

>>57333118
yet, these chains are not proof of stake. and mining farms are just trying to get bills paid and profits made. so they are neutral in regard of what they mine (fundamentally)

>>57333128
Any use of crypto for it's designed purpuse is discentivized by fiat. It's Gresham's law in action.

>>57333144
yes, it's low. about 27k LTC in the pool.
luckily, on chain data shows Litecoin is thriving

>>57333183
>on-chain
oh nonono...

>>57333195
man, imagine if people actually used BCH

>>57332407
If I have to put my weight behing a coin that is not XMR then it would be BCH.
Ver is actually honest unlike the shillers in Bitcoin space.

>>57333213
I'm confident if you build it, they will come. CashTokens being a big catalyst that will attract degenerates to come gamble on the chain for years to come.

Are atomic swaps possible on MWEB? I see XMR<>BCH swaps as a huge opportunity with the delistings.

>>57333259
how does cash fusion work? is it like mweb with a pool? I'm just starting to learn

>>57333290
I slept on MWEB desu but it does look to be superior, CashFusion is essentially just shuffling the coins, MWEB has no addresses so it is technically more secure. Nice thing is nothing precludes BCH from absorbing it.

I'm not sure there will be demand if BCH becomes the default on/off ramp for XMR anyway though.

>>57333259
BasicSwap DEX supports MWEB and Monero. You should reach out to them and see if they will add BCH support. The more on/off ramps to Monero, the better imo.

>>57333353
ah cool, looks like all the coin needs is a malleability fix, which BCH has. I'll reach out to them

>>57333403
Good luck BCH bro. The real winners will be both of us when people figure out BTC is a pile of shit. I dream that all these major corporations dump all their money into BTC then retail swaps into something like XMR, LTC or BCH leaving the hedge funds holding the bags and then we use real freedom money.

>>57333477
Thanks, if the meme format in the OP has a third nigga in it I'd add LTC.

>>57333477
>when people figure out BTC is a pile of shit
it does kinda work as intented as digital gold for the ultra rich. but yeah in a decade doing a tx will probably cost 0.1 btc. and then it would only make sense to settle there for people who have 500 bitcoins or more.

for now i just ride the ponzi tokens up and then collect the real p2p monies. fuckem. if needed i'll move to argentina if the E.U outlaws p2p non goverment cash

>>57333559
There's nothing in the whitepaper about digital gold or supply caps or intentionally making it so it doesn't scale though. It's meant to be a p2p digital cash system.

>>57332407

Comparing XMR to dogshit

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKING RETARD.

>>57334131
solid argument, who wouldn't be convinced by this?

>>57332407
XMR makes bcash irrelevant, but you knew that, bagholder

>>57334210
no. bch is much more widely on the market and accepted by from markets. XMR needs BCH for future liquidity channels. BCH wont be delisted everywhere, XMR will be.

>>57334210
I love XMR but the UX is terrible. I don't see it winning over the majority of the population until that is fixed, but it has amazing utility today in DNMs

>>57332407
Lmao, Monero shills are seething hard over Bitcoin lately.

>>57334323
I've seen the opposite happen. Ztrannies went away and not it's the maxis' turn to seethe in /XMR/

>>57334515
Every single Monero general for years now starts with a big long cope post about Bitcoin.

>>57332414
>>57332407
>>57332419
bch only because of xmrs atomic swaps. ltc, not really, ltc tried to add grin but really there’s only one real grin.

>>57332419
this shit is terrible money you idiot. all crypto is. why the fuck would you want hyper volatile money?

>receive money for product
>money goes down 30% in a day
retard

>>57334771
volatility is matter of perspective. you think in terms of dollars. 1 bch = 1 bch faggot.

>>57334698
Well, I guess you are too new to have been around when it wasn't like that. The Monero General Info-Dump section was added exactly because every single point on it was brought up by retards stumbling into the thread for the first time. It got tiresome, and it also worked to fend off the trolls. The OPs have all come to a common consensus that it's a change worth keeping.
The rest of the OP is useful resources, and not really preoccupied with Bitcoin at all.

>>57334881
most people that don't like monero have never used crypto for anything but buy and hold on exchange. wait to sell for a higher price.

>>57334881
I checked the archive, and the long screed about Bitcoin going to zero because no tail emission has been posted since 2022. And besides that there's a common habit to bitch about it all being a scam for about as long. So don't get shocked when people engage in debate with your retarded OP.

>>57334771
you can hedge it on BCH Bull if you want a stablecoin, volatility will decrease with adoption

>>57335014
are you mentally ill? the xmr general is a bot thread. the info posts are all automated. chainlink also has bot threads but they apear more organic (protip they are not), half the posts here are programs.

>>57335014
>2022
Yes, that was practically yesterday by IB standards. The washtrading section is even younger, maybe even less than 1 year old.
>don't get shocked when people engage in debate with your retarded OP.
People have been engaging in debate with Monero long before any long-form OP was made. But now it's easier to filter out the retards, the trolls, and generally the people with a surface level understanding of the underlying tech behind cryptocurrency. You can easily tell someone is just jumping in for the sake of an argument when they are clueless that their argument is already mentioned in the OP.
Additionally, those segments actually work. Including a section worked to repel the Ztards and it works to repel the maxis. But either way, aren't you the guy from the now dead general? You seemed very passionate, what happened to that?

>>57335090
>are you mentally ill?
says the one who comes up with a schizo theory

you faggots started caring about bch like a week or so ago because its doing better than btc i swear to god. not that im complaining i got redpilled on it months ago bc of beoble and tradingview charts. and yes they are the only real coins left.

>>57335321
>>57335165
based

>>57335266
lmaoo newfag. bet you can't spot a.i girl pictures either.

>>57332414
actually its monero and wownero, sorry

>>57335165
I like Monero but whoever runs the general threads is a fag. Any discussion of price, savings, investment, cooperation between Bitcoin & Monero communities, issues Monero suffers from, anything that isn't bootlicking his everything except Monero will go to zero narrative, gets shit on or slid with gay reaction images. The only semi-meaningful discussion that still works in those threads is Bitcoin-Monero shit flinging. Threads otherwise die or get botted with his 1pbtid "uhhhhhh how do I mine on a 2013 thinkpad?", "seraphis! jamtis! full membership proofs" engagement farming posts.

>>57335411
as far as I'm concerned, we really don't need BTC communities support. BCH is simply better for swaps. I see a bright future ahead of both coins.

Actually good thread OP.

>>57335340
It‘s okay to take your medicine, Anon.

>>57335447
If you want something non-bitcoin to swap with, doge or litecoin are better than bch, both are older, have higher security, more liquidity, more transactions, larger user base.

>>57335561
I'm aware, it only reinforces the point about needing BTC

>>57335598
not* needing BTC.
I think generally as this trend continues and BCH price rises, it will become more secure than LTC or DOGE. There's more available 256 hashrate than anything its competitors have.

>>57335617
bch hash is starting to uptrend again. but yeah its a bit pleb amounts still.

>>57335165
>their argument is already mentioned in the OP
Those arguments are full of shit rhetoric. Even you bringing up the completely unrelated zcash is an obvious strategy at associating it with Bitcoin. Despite there being way less seethe about zcash in the Monero threads to instigate a response.

>>57335638
yeah nice chart that's great to see

>>57334220
>ux is terrible
use feather wallet on desktop
mysu wallet on android (by pokkst)

>>57335411
>muh btc cooperation
bitfags can fuck off

>>57335411
>>57335561
>>57335650
>multiple, disorganized replies
>usage of & symbol
>selective evasion of entire lines of arguments before posting
>in thread about coin he doesn't want
>I hold both, they can coexist
Yea, I think you ARE indeed the anon from the last /XMR/ general. How are you LOL? What's your opinion on CTV or increasing the blocksize with time?
>way less seethe about zcash in the Monero threads
OOOOOOOHHHH so you really weren't here. Fucking newfags. But let me explain, most of the current cycle was spent on the opposite side of the spectrum. A bunch of Zcash shills and barely any maxipads. It dwindled away with one poster (suspected Monerochad) remaining by the end that also gave up (somewhat recently iirc). And now you're here, once again. Saying things that have been repeated time and time again. If you want to you have conversation, you can totally have it, as long as you maintain a base level of argumentative capacity. When the washtrading section was added, we had conversations across 2-3 threads about it. But ultimately, it turns out the vast majority of crypto-trading is simply falsified. This isn't some secret knowledge, a Bitcoin ETF's presentation to the SEC spent a good 40 slides detailing how widespread the issue is.
Still don't like the OP personally? Have a grudge? Set up an /XMR+BTC/ General! But you clearly won't, you much prefer low-effort posting in threads like these.

>>57335889
>multiple, disorganized replies
completely unrelated
>usage of & symbol
completely unrelated & pic related
>selective evasion of entire lines of arguments before posting
What arguments? There haven't been any substantial ones in this thread. For last thread, there's mountains of good arguments mixed with complete shit from multiple people. I'm not writing all day. I'm prioritizing what I think is important.
>in thread about coin he doesn't want
completely unrelated
>set up an /XMR+BTC/ General
I tried. It devolves into as much seethe & shitflinging as the regular XMR generals. Ended up being unnecessary.
>CTV or increasing the blocksize with time
CTV is fine to me, would let lightning scale & help with Bitcoin L1 congestion without requiring a hard fork or hurting decentralization. Increasing blocksize with time wouldn't be practical it'd require a contentious hard fork, hurt decentralization, & still not be enough to scale to mass adoption. So CTV is the way to go.

>>57336076
what does ctv do?

>>57336085
CTV = check template verify, an opcode that would let a recipient of a UTXO define certain limitations on it such as what addresses it can be sent to and how much. Doesn't have the dangers of more complex covenant systems & would help for lightning since instead of needing one UTXO to onboard one user, you could onboard many users with a single UTXO.
https://utxos.org/uses/non-interactive-channels/
https://utxos.org/uses/htlcs/

>>57336085
pretty much what >>57336145 said but it is contentious enough that there might be another hardfork anyway

>>57336164
the more I think about this, I wonder if it played any role in Blackrock's wording around them determining which chain the BTC ticker belonged to in case of another fork? Might warrant a whole thread on its own.

>>57336164
At any rate CTV itself doesn't require a hardfork so will get passed as part of BTC or won't.

>>57336296
almost makes me think it wont, if for no other reason than another hardfork with such a large faction would be a huge mess

>>57336371
CTV itself has a lot more support from the conservative hardliners than any other covenant system, lacking the danger of recursiveness. They might drag it out forever like with Taproot but it seems to be broadly understood that it or something like it is needed to scale & doesn't require a hardfork itself. OPCAT is a whole other discussion.

>>57336487
is scaling really a concern though? seems like you could just lean harder into store of value? I see it dragging on in that direction ultimately fading away in a battle of attrition

>>57335396
how about just wownero

>>57336801
bullish

>>57332433
I love XMR's technology. As a cryptoCURRENCY, it's one of the best out there.
Kaspa is new, but afaik it's the only PoW crypto that actually has instant transactions and scales well without making some major sacrifice it its security or decentralization. BCH isn't a proper solution because big blocks favor large mining farms and harm decentralization. The fast block times on KAS means that it has a lot of solo miners and is more decentralized than any other proof of work crypto. They actually took the time to develop a proper solution to Bitcoin's scalability issues instead of just forking BTC and tweaking a few variables around, which is not a real solution

>>57335396
Nah the whole reason you need coins besides Monero is because cryptonote coins aren't liquid. Sometimes you need to go back into fiat.

>>57332506
>BSV
>Discover how Bitcoin SV (BSV) has delivered Satoshi’s vision of One Global Bitcoin blockchain. It’s fast, scalable, transformative, efficient, and (((regulation-friendly)))
Kek.

>>57337808
Yeah, pretty interesting thought process over there lol