/biz/ - Business & Finance

PREVIOUS THREAD: >>57250536

START MINING IN P2POOL
>START MINING IN P2POOL
START MINING IN P2POOL
>START MINING IN P2POOL

P2Pool combines the advantages of pool and solo mining; you still fully control your Monero node and what it mines, but you get frequent payouts like on a regular pool.

P2Pool has no central server that can be shut down/blocked because it uses a separate blockchain to merge mine with Monero. There's no pool admin that can control what your hashrate is used for or decide who can mine on the pool and who can't. It's permissionless!

Decentralized pool mining (P2Pool) is pretty much the ultimate way to secure a PoW coin against 51% attacks. Once P2Pool reaches & maintains 51%+ of the total network hashrate, Monero will be essentially invulnerable to such attacks.

Although many inexperienced miners think that bigger pools give better profits, this is absolutely NOT the case. Your profits in the long run depend ONLY on your hashrate, NOT on the pool's hashrate.


>YOU CAN NOW MINE IN P2POOL FASTER & EASIER THAN EVER BEFORE WITH THE GUPAX GUI. USES TRUSTED REMOTE NODES BY DEFAULT!!!!

1. Download the *bundled* version of Gupax for your OS here: https://gupax.io/downloads/
2. Extract somewhere (Desktop, Documents, etc)
3. Launch Gupax
4. Input your Monero address in the [P2Pool] tab. USE A SEPARATE MINING-ONLY WALLET!
5. Select a Community Monero Node that you trust, although you can and should run your own node if possible.
6. Start P2Pool
7. Start XMRig

VIDEO GUIDE: https://gupax.io/guide/

You are now mining to your own instance of P2Pool, welcome to the world of decentralized peer-to-peer mining!

>NOTE THAT DUE TO BOTNET SHENANIGANS XMRIG IS AUTO-FLAGGED AS MALWARE BY MOST ANTI-VIRUSES, SO DON'T FREAK OUT!!!


OLD GUIDE FOR P2POOL MINING FROM THE MONERO GUI WALLET: https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/eecbe

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining
https://web.xmrpool.eu/xmr-monero-easy-mining-guide.html
https://monero.hashvault.pro/en/getting-started
https://www.supportxmr.com

*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****


Learn more about Monero's key features and excellent future prospects, have some common misconceptions dispelled and discover the cold hard facts about Bitcoin, Zcash and PirateChain. Also featured is a noob-friendly buying, storage and wallet guide.


>Monero: it's what new Bitcoin users think they bought. Every feature, explained
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org


>Why Monero is so untraceable: a rundown of the powerful stealth tech Monero utilizes
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroIsUntraceable


>The Writing on the Wall: Monero replacing Bitcoin as the new standard
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroReplacingBitcoin


>Breaking News: no, Monero still isn't traceable
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD


>Vaporware: why nobody is worried about CipherTrace's magic crystal ball
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#CipherTraceFail


>Very Clever Math: how we can verify that the XMR supply isn't being inflated
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#MuhInflationBug


>Pssst, wanna buy some Monero? Follow these simple how-to guides
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BuyAndStoreMonero


>Bitcoin: The Original Non-Fungible Token
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BitcoinBlackpill


>Why Monero is Better than Zcash: the "privacy coin" criminals won't touch
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#ZcashBlackpill


>The Lowdown on PirateChain: why this Zcash clone is considered a scam
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#PirateChainBlackpill


>LATEST UPDATES

- added Proof-of-Stake update to Zcash Blackpill
- added list of available desktop/mobile wallets
- expanded all sections with more relevant info, graphics & videos
- added easily linkable headers and sub-headers (link icon to the far right)
- added a new section about traceability FUD

Never forget what this is ultimately all about.

https://anarkio.codeberg.page/agorism/
https://freedomcells.org/

>Help grow the circular Monero economy: buy/sell goods & services with/for XMR!

https://monerica.com/
https://moneromarket.io/
https://www.reddit.com/r/moneromarket/new/
https://kycnot.me/services

>Live off XMR with Cake Pay (now available in 140+ countries!)
https://cakepay.com/

>or with CoinCards (currently US & CA only, UK, EU & AUS coming soon)
https://coincards.com/


>Monero stickers for guerilla marketing
http://monerosupplies.com/

>Monero-only VPS hosting
https://kyun.host/

>Monero-only darknet escrow service
https://pastebin.com/raw/7DW8hSgk

>Win XMR!
https://monero.win/


Say buh-bye to Bitcoin and support the growing number of Monero-only darknet markets/vendors.

# = recently launched, exercise caution

>Alias Market #
>Archetyp
>Asur Market
>Calypso #
>Candy Haven #
>Chimera Market
>Cloud Market
>Cypher Market
>Dark Matter
>DrugHub #
>Drugula #
>FilthyFellas
>Gofish Market #
>Hectate Market #
>Mercury Market #
>Pygmalion's Refuge
>Retro Market
>Smackers
>Sonanza Market #
>Squid Market
>SuperMarket #
>Tribe Seuss
>Wizard's Palace #
>World Trade Center #
Links: https://pastebin.com/raw/fknwLx6q


>LocalMonero is now available on I2P
http://lm.i2p/nojs/


Anonymously exchange BTC for XMR using a reputable darknet service

>Majestic Bank
>Infinity Project
https://pastebin.com/raw/75mVpfED


or a reputable clearnet service

https://trocador.app/en/ | I2P: http://trocador.i2p/en/
https://xmrswap.me/
https://unstoppableswap.net/


>Want to support further development? Donate to the Monero General Fund or MAGIC Monero Fund
https://ccs.getmonero.org/donate/
https://monerofund.org/

>Have a particular set of skills? Join a Monero Workgroup and (potentially) earn XMR!!!
https://www.getmonero.org/community/workgroups/

>Want more Monero-chan? Donate to the Community Art Fund
https://www.monerochan.art/

START RUNNING AN I2P NODE
>START RUNNING AN I2P NODE
START RUNNING AN I2P NODE
>START RUNNING AN I2P NODE


>What is I2P?

I2P is an anonymized P2P overlay network akin to the Tor network but with several key advantages over it. I2P is now replacing Tor as the go-to darknet and will play a pivotal role in growing the Monerocentric economy.


>Why should I care? Why should I run a node?

Increasing shadow economy adoption and the proliferation of an XMR-only standard are what guarantee that XMR will have a floor and won't also crash to zero when the Crypto Casino finally implodes. XMR's long-term outlook is therefore *strongly* correlated with the darknet, you may have already noticed how the number of TXs begins to drop whenever the glowies attack & cripple the Tor network, which underscores just how critical it is that the darknet wins this war against the State. Make no mistake: if the darknet is allowed to die XMR will take a devastating hit as well.

So by running an I2P node you are helping to make the network Monero thrives in that much more robust while also enraging glowies in the process. Win-win!


>OK, but how difficult is it? Do I have to store GBs worth of data like when running an XMR node?

It is literally as easy as installing an Android app and no, there are no storage requirements, the node only consumes some bandwidth.


>Cool, I'm sold. What do?

If you have no interest in browsing the darknet yourself then the simplest solution is to install & run the I2Pd Android app on any compatible (Android 4.1+) device, ideally a TV box since they don't require recharging and are permanently online. But any old phone or tablet is fine too. Make sure you activate "start on boot" in the settings.

https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd-android/releases/latest


Otherwise just install the appropriate desktop client and leave it running.

https://github.com/PurpleI2P/i2pd/releases/latest


The console is accessed via http://127.0.0.1:7070/ or the menu in Android.

>Bitcoin's price = NOT the result of organic real-world supply & demand = NOT sustainable

Wash trading has been artificially driving BTC's insane price action since the first major spike in 2013.

>Wash Trading 101
1. create/maintain the illusion of high volume
2. wait for poor unsuspecting fools to FOMO in
3. dump at a fat profit and leave them holding the bag

When the supply of gullible fools finally runs out, the entire scheme implodes.

TL;DR: exciting price action means nothing in an unregulated market rife with such manipulation, real-world utilization is the ONLY reliable metric of actual value.


>No tail emission = Bitcoin is fucked

Right now, at the current hashrate, miners break even on energy expenses at a BTC price of $22K. Post 2024 halving, that break even point, at the current hashrate, goes up to $44K. If BTC does not go to $44K, miners will be unprofitable and hashrate will have to drop (miners going out of business) to reduce the cost of securing the network, also reducing the security.

If you know anything about the power of 2, you already know that things get very big, very fast. If we’re 3 halvings into 32 total halvings, then the estimated break even point for miners at current hashrate going into the last halving would be:

$22,000 * (2^27) = $2,952,790,016,000 per BTC

$2,952,790,016,000 per BTC * 21 Million total BTC = $62,008,590,336,000,000,000 BTC Market Cap

The block rewards shrink so fast that after enough halvings BTC would eventually require a $2.95 trillion price per BTC and a $62 quintillion market cap to sustain the current cost of $7.15 billion/year.

Even if these numbers were somehow realistic, can you imagine securing a $62 quintillion market cap on only $7.15 billion/year of hashrate? LOL

So basically BTC mining will eventually become so unprofitable the hashrate (network security) will shrivel up UNLESS it is subsidized by BTC transaction fees.

https://cryptostackers.substack.com/p/bitcoin-is-not-a-store-of-value

LOL you have no seat for this bull market

>>57257970

Monero is for using, not for gambling.

>>57257970
Moonfaggots get the rope.

>>57257753
Anime is cringe you guys ruin every thread with this low t shit

>>57257998
Why do they make this face?

>>57258132
You are on 4chan.

>>57257998
>>57258010

Don't cry. I will buy for you 0.0001 XMR after this bull market hahahahahaha

>>57258139
Because they are signaling potential mates to insert their penis

>>57258010
>>57257998
>>57257970
These threads are so shit now Jesus

dead coin general

>>57257998
>/biz/ - Business and Finance

>>57258252
This is how it is during bull markets, unfortunately. Bear market Monero is so comfy.
The good news is BTC is going to dump so the pajeets will be gone soon.

>>57259069
Last bear market was just fags posting cartoon fan art

>>57259126
So then contribute something useful instead of being a concern troll fag.

>>57259200
You're bitching too pussy

>>57258010
>>Moonfaggots get the rope.

Based beyond belief. Moonfags are the cancer that's killing crypto, extremists are the chemo.

>>57258139
>Why do they make this face?

Moonfags = gullible mouth-breathing morons, its natural for them.

>>57258216
>Don't cry. I will buy for you 0.0001 XMR after this bull market hahahahahaha

$100K end of year!

>>57258252
>These threads are so shit now Jesus

Feel free to make your own, squire.

>>57257753
Is the broken captcha on the bottom of the request page of kycnot.me been fixed already?

>>57258902
>>/biz/ - Business and Finance

Yes, as opposed to gambling on obvious ponzi tokens.

XMR Monero Generals focus on tech, community and the effort to grow a viable circular economy.

>>57259451
>XMR Monero Generals focus on tech, community and the effort to grow a viable circular economy.
Extremely gigachad behaviour. I cringed when I look at /biz/ and saw people seriously discussing buying "DOGE" or some other low-tech garbage.

>>57259467

99% of crypto "enthusiasts" don't give a single fuck about the tech or ideology behind it, their endgame has always been cashing their useless shitcoins out to fiat when the time comes.

Unfortunately for them, that time will never come. But the delusion persists.

>>57259451
>focus on tech, community and circular economy
Honestly, it's mostly just you spazzing out at people for talking about things you don't want to talk about. But that's okay since the threads are completely dead otherwise.

>>57259703

Slow/dead threads are preferable to mouth-breathing moonfaggotry and muh technical analysis.

Thread dies, another one gets made. But Monero's reputation as a serious coin for serious applications remains intact.

>>57259832
Haven't you heard the phrase "all publicity is good publicity"

>>57259667
>>57259451
>>57259467
> muh gigachad only cares about tech
As much as I have the upmost respect for the XMR community (devs most importantly), XMR is SOUND ELECTRONIC MONEY.

Not discussing AT ALL about market cap (aka importance) is retarded. We must discuss price prediction, growth, merchant adoption.

All the anime trannies, monerochan autists are fucking retaded. Biz is fucking pathetic. Muh "an unkown amount" meme, muh "look at the darknet?!!!"

The real based bros are the ones who put XMR stickers in many cities such as Stockholm, Paris, and other communication events.

Monero is a successful a tech, it needs success in term of adoption. It means THE PRICE MUST PUMP

stop the fucking delusion

LONG LIVE MONERO
LONG XMR

>>57260300
>Haven't you heard the phrase "all publicity is good publicity"

Is it though?

>>57257753
All crypto is legal rehypothecation of cold wallets

>>57260382
>THE PRICE MUST PUMP

Sure, but because of higher demand through actual adoption rather than by marketing Monero as a get-rich-quick opportunity. As seen with Bitcoin, appealing to speculators does not actually increase the amount of coins being spent on goods & services, it just results in more hoarding and economic stagnation.

So if you want NGU, grow the Monero economy, everything else is just jerking off.

>>57260532
>grow the Monero economy
yes by incentivizing speculation first, not secondly. BTC is a masterclass in that domain and XMR could learn a little bit from it
(kidding, it's all manipulation & liquidity)

>>57259832
when are we going to get rich?

>>57260541
>>grow the Monero economy
>yes by incentivizing speculation first, not secondly

Speculation does nothing for the Monero economy since it incentivizes hoarding rather than spending.

>>57260725
>when are we going to get rich?

Next Thursday.

Any other monerochads out there that have a huge fucking stack and haven’t told a single person irl about it?

You can tell who is a true revolutionary and who is just an undercover moonfag by how much priority they give ngu over economic growth.

>>57261942
NGU is an indicator of economic growth. If the market cap of Monero were to flip Bitcoin, it would mean the Monero economy was bigger. Conversely if I buy 10 XMR and then the value gets cut in half, that's half as much economic activity I can partake in, half as much shit I can buy.

>>57262343
>NGU is an indicator of economic growth.

There are no words.

Reporting in
##################################
IRC - https://pastebin.com/kP1gZ1Hk
Education - https://pastebin.com/V0SFR8qU
Mining - https://pastebin.com/Rd1V8P5L
Nodes - https://pastebin.com/j6Vv2Xn6

>>57262905
>He hasn't read von Mises, or even Friedman
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>57262343
Imagine being this stupid.

>>57263125

1. wash trade/manipulate with unbacked stablecoin
2. NGU
3. muh economic growth

>>57263486
>Imagine being this stupid.

Are you new here? 90%+ of crypto "investors" are this stupid, how else do you think memecoins are still a lucrative thing?

>>57264220
>>57264485
Kek, keep coping retard

is we crabbing

>>57264560

Case-in-point.

>>57264485
It still amazes me.

>>57264485
>how else do you think memecoins are still a lucrative thing
Because money is a meme, that's it, with the small shitty memes ultimately getting absorbed by the larger ones.

>>57265707

Jesus wept.

>>57265707
It's that very sect of people who have utterly ruined this entire industry. You will never convince me they were not astroturfed.

>>57260382
>hating Monero-chan

>>57267190
That's how ideas work. Losing money cause you can't accept human nature for what it is isn't doing anyone any favors. Even sethforprivacy figured out he'd have a greater impact helping make bitcoin "private enough" than he would pushing people into Monero, against their nature.

>MUH XMR TO DOLLAR PRICE
XMR is supposed to kill the dollar, not sell out to obtain more dollars.

>Haveno will be composed by a user interface (in ReactJS) and a core app (in Java). The two will communicate through gRPC APIs.
>ReactJS
>Java
Bruh...

>>57257778
>NOTE THAT DUE TO BOTNET SHENANIGANS XMRIG IS AUTO-FLAGGED AS MALWARE BY MOST ANTI-VIRUSES, SO DON'T FREAK OUT!!!
Yeah... You lost me.

can we make her into monero meme girl?

>>57267937
Nice, good work

/biz/ is a wasteland of the lowest IQ people on this entire website, and I consider myself spiritually unclean for having to visit here to use /xmr/.

brothers, know that self love and your intellectual understanding is golden, pure and infallible, no matter what they do we are safe, we are righteous, virtuous and correct, may every evil be smited in the holy fire of truth

How do I withdraw xmr into cash/bank account?

>>57268365
Hey man, sometimes I go on /soc/ and add every F I see on Discord and spend hours trying to get just one of them to watch me jack off on cam, while trying to stay hard. In the end usually none of them are into it so I have to visit /gif/ and have an unsatisfactory orgasm to depraved fetish porn (pegging), usually spraying the jizz all over myself. I clean it off with some crusty socks and my bedsheets. By then my bare ass has sat for hours sweating onto the cushion of my chair and my room smells poorly. My point is, don't feel too bad about visiting /biz/ to keep up with your favorite coin. :)

>Monero is slowly going off sale

>>57269036

>>57268399
localmonero or swap to btc etc. then cash out through your usual route to normieville

>>57267405
mining programs are regularly flagged as malware

So just a heads up: Chainalysis' 2023 crime report is set to drop and according to the preview Monero is featured prominently, primarily in relation to darknet pedo networks.

In b4 "literal pedo coin"

>>57271288
Sauce to the pdf

>>57271288
Does it include anything on terrorism?

>>57271288
>contribute to a safer ecosystem
Why do they always use this newspeak?

>>57271563

https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/csam-cryptocurrency-monero-instant-exchangers-2024/

>>57271288
>Furthermore, at the 1,000 day mark, 19.2% of potential Monero using CSAM vendors are still active, compared to just 3.8% of all others.
Figures, using Monero greatly increases your chances of not getting caught by ChainAnal.
>Overall, 52.0% of CSAM vendor wallets active in 2023 have sent funds to Monero-friendly instant exchangers
Does this mean we beat Bitcoin in yet another market? Please, someone notify the Monero Info-dump guy that runs the neocities webpage in the OP to put this in.
The best part of the whole thing is that you can clearly see that Monero is fully untraceable by industry standards as of 2024. The investigation mainly focuses on traceable coins going to instant exchange services that accept Monero, and the trail completely stops there. They can't even make claims as to whether or not the vendors actually bought Monero (hence the naming "POTENTIAL Monero use"), let alone determine if they spent it, laundered it, or anything that happens from there.
I know this is a bad market to align Monero with, but it's recent, and very clear-cut about what Monero offers. Anonymous, private, digital cash. And ChainAnal can't do a thing about it.

>>57271288
>allotted tons of money to break monero
>cant break it no matter how hard you try, even your heavily spun results are obvious horse shit.
>try again 3 more times, fail miserably each one
>just start making smear campaigns instead

wow what a totally legitimate organization

>>57273792
I wouldn't really call it a smear campaign. It's what is actually happening lol.

>>57274071
The only thing this entire study shows is that Monero works. People pay for abuse material (like any other illegal material) with all manner of currencies.

>>57274071
>heh, see chud, CRIMINALS use your currency so it's BAD
by this same logic, USD is bad, too.
it's almost like those with the most to risk (their freedom) end up using the safest currency in the long run.

>>57273792
I don't think you smear the darknet's darling any more. People use it for CSAM, I thought that was already an open secret in the community.
The research is more interesting from the part that it actually provides empirical proof that Monero works and by what margins. If they're trying to smear Monero, they are doing a really poor job at it

>>57274128
exactly, monero works.
it's not a smear campaign. they are literally just saying "oh, turns out Monero works".

>>57274071
No criminals, like the evil KHAMAS are using ZEPH!!!

Monero shillers who fud about ZEPH support the state of Israel, sir.

>>57271288
No, Monero shillers who fud ZEPH are all law abiding citizens. Please be rest assured that Monero is a pussycoin and not a cool cyberpunk outlaw currency.

>>57276690
*No, criminals

(I just want to stress again that Monero is a pussycoin so don’t worry)

>>57273306
I wouldn't use this as marketing campaign we are supposed to be bad boys not epstein simpathizers

lol it's barely been a couple of days and Tether has already printed yet *another* $1 billion USDT out of thin air!

https://twitter.com/usdcoinprinter/status/1745962623823126589

>>57278148
At this point I am convinced it'll never pop because someone "who decides things" is just propping it up with their infinite hot air machine, or some such lunacy like that.

Their books have never ever made any fucking sense and their conduct has somehow been even shadier than that, none of it makes any sense.

>>57276690
>'Nnoooo you need to buy the premined dev tax coin. If you do not pay taxes you are an Israeli'
Go practice your kabbalah black magic elsewhere rabbi

>The cryptominer is a modified version of XMRig, another piece of open source malware

Fucking arse techniga

>>57279507
I am a retard and did not include the link to the article which gives context to that post.

https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/01/a-previously-unknown-worm-has-been-stealthily-targeting-linux-devices-for-a-year/

Some anon was saying feather wallet is "inaccessible" to the newcomers in the previous threads.

Feather wallet basics: https://wiki.karapara.net/doku.php?id=featherwallet

I spent an unknown amount of Monero and now I feel half naked being below my preferred stack threshold.

I am glad this coin isn’t full of moon boys

>>57273306
All consumers and distributors of CP deserve the rope, with or without XMR

>>57279507
For their gay Starbucks sipping ultraplebbit audience it makes sense. They're most likely to see XMRig on infected machines. Windows Defender blocks it by default. Eric Berger is the only good author left on that site.

>>57280002
If they started going after child molestors in any way besides the money trail it would lead right back to politicians and CEOs and the people blackmailing them. Autistically focusing on money trails keeps that hidden because there's no money-for-pizza or money-for-child transaction.

>>57280022
The government can’t print XMR so they prefer fiat. The money printer will line their pockets and the pedo shit keeps going

does anyone have an opinion on mimblewimble and the beam privacy coin? i heard about it recently while looking for things to gpu mine at work

>>57280159
shit and shit

>>57280219
it seemed pretty dead, figured it was worth asking

>>57279850
They should add stealth balances. Wallets where even you don’t know how much xmr you have.

>>57257753
Handprint is facing the wrong way

>>57268365
Can someone that holds monero please explain why they support terrorism? Last i checked terrorism is illegal. Watch this thread get ignored because you terrorists know I am right

Now eat the bugs

>>57279507
>based on mirai malware
I guess some things never change.

>>57280550
Go be a retarded Jew somewhere else.

>>57280541
The hand print is from the first slap when the irs tried 5 minutes prior. 2nd hand print will appear later
>>57280593
Go be mad here. Forever

>>57280550
>illegal
buy bitcoin then

Does anybody have the Monero stack tier picture? Cheers.

>>57280802
do you have the suicide stack yet, anon?

>>57280749
What if the btc I hold was swapped from terrorist coin? I don't think it's worth going to prison over

>>57280826
been sitting on my suicide stack for some time now

>>57280159
There is a reason as to why the tech is irrelecant. MW is broken tech. You can simply record transactions before they get mixed in the mempool.
>https://medium.com/dragonfly-research/breaking-mimblewimble-privacy-model-84bcd67bfe52
Despite that Litecoin decided to implement it, and the users obviously got traced. (on top of Round-Trip-Transaction tracing like with ZCash). It's practically fraud to be adocating for the mimblewimble as "privacy tech".

>>57257753
Trying to buy some with cash in mail. What do I do about the return address? On the one hand, providing a real one would put my mind at ease since I'll be sending several hundred dollars through the mail that I don't wan to lose. On the other hand, there are privacy issues.

I heard you can atomic swap on BCH for XMR? Anyone done it?

ETFs are going to destroy bitcoin and XMR will take its throne as cryptocurrency

>>57281451
PO box rented through shell company.

>>57280826
>>57280802
>18.7
what is the deeper meme behind this?

>>57280826
FUCK, this image is something.

>>57282118
1 millionth of the Monero supply at the time it entered its tail emission era.

Are you 1 in a million?

>>57282225
>Are you 1 in a million?
Almost, but now it's even less, isn't it...

>>57282303
Just aim for 21 XMR. Then you will have 1 millionth of total supply until the year 2100 or something (at least until the time horizon you live and you really care about)

>>57282118
>what is the deeper meme behind this?

It's both the number that Monero entered into tail emissions (18.7 million), and "187" is the California police radio code for homicide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_rQ7bFJhuw

>>57271288
damn $10k in a month is some serious business i hope they crack down on that shit lol. for real though what is the estimated revenue that industry does in USD? I would bet money that EBT credits are more commonly spent on this kinda shit than monero

>no monero ETF
when moon?

POOMPA
*BANG BANG*
POOMPA
*BANG BANG
POOMPA
*BANG BANG*

"Just found out my average buying price is 288 dollarinos.

Why o why did I decide to go all in during the 2017-18 bull market?

*****/XMR/ Monero General Poker Night*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Poker Night*****
*****/XMR/ Monero General Poker Night*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Poker Night*****

Hang out and play Texas Hold'em with fellow MoneroChads safely over an anonymized network and hopefully win some XMR along the way!

Tor: http://dkforestseeaaq2dqz2uflmlsybvnq2irzn4ygyvu53oazyorednviid.onion
I2P: http://dkforest4gwaceahf4te3vs7ycddtbpf2lucocxdzhphezikdgnq.b32.i2p

Neither service requires JavaScript.

Dread: http://dreadytofatroptsdj6io7l3xptbet6onoyno2yv7jicoxknyazubrad.onion/d/PokerClub


>REQUIREMENTS
You will obviously need to download and install either the Tor or I2Pd browser bundle to access the darknet.

https://www.torproject.org/download/

You will also need an unknown amount of XMR to play. Don't stake more than you can afford to lose.

Optionally, you can voice chat and coordinate over Jitsi for a more authentic social experience. Jitsi is FOSS and end-to-end encrypted.

https://meet.jit.si/
https://desktop.jitsi.org/Main/Download.html


Note that unlike with clearnet gaming, playing over Tor with Monero is by far the comfiest way to play because your identity, IP address and money trail cannot be established so you don't have to worry about legalities or about the tax man coming to collect his share of your winnings.

Good luck!!

>>57257753
Everyone in this thread is a criminal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaIuZkfVgeE

>>57284364
>>>/plebbit/
Like a good goy.

Bump.

Everyone in this thread is going to make it.

>>57283908
i'd say that if you live long enough you will not regret buying at that price

sex with xmr-chan

>>57289265
yes, except
>>57284364
this guy

>>57263125
You are the blackest gorilla on 4chang I have seen in a long time

Captcha: mr V8

wallstreet is seething

>>57280826
>generational wealth
>7 figures

>>57257753
https://simplifiedprivacy.com/mullvadgmail/
Mullvad is kiked

>>57291512
no shit, just use ivpn
they don't even require an email

>>57291638
mullvad doesn't require an email either. The problem is, the article claims that mullvad is using gmail for support emails.

>>57291681
>mullvad doesn't require an email either
well that's new then

>>57291638
IVPN is compromised too judging by that article. Just host your own.

>>57291396
put 7 figures in a yield bearing account and in 24 months let me know how you feel about working a day job

Njalla (sells domains for XMR) censored main nitter instance

https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/issues/1150#issuecomment-1890812835

>>57291512
Who gives a shit about support emails. It's email. You have no privacy guarantees.

Is coinjoin relevant for btc?

>>57292751
Works fine for me

>>57291512
there is no save email? what's the point?
this basically >>57292412
they accept monero. I like that
>>57292751
makes your coins tainted doesn't it?

>>57292751
1)too high transaction fees
2)too long waiting times (~30 minutes to an hour, and then spend some time remixing, and then make another transaction out of the coinjoin pool---you are looking at hours of waiting for coinjoin process).
3)post-coinjoin, consolidating your mixed utxos shoot you in the foot. you need to be VERY careful which utxos are you combining with which other utxos in your wallet.

the whole coinjoin thing is a glass house, while btc chain itself is unusable due to high fees and long waiting times.

imagine

>>57291941
>Njalla (sells domains for XMR) censored main nitter instance
so Njalla shouldn't be trusted? I thought they were ok
>>57291638
mullvad does not require an email
>>57289265
>Everyone in this thread is going to make it.
everyone but next anon after this post

>>57294064
true, they don't require an email anymore. i checked it myself, they changed it to the ivpn account model at some point

So obsolete they are forced to literally steal tech from superior projects.

There can be only one and its name is Zcash.

>>57293965
100 XMR would indeed be a make it stack at that price level.

Reminder:

>Seraphis
>Jamtis
>Full Membership Proofs

Means: it's GAME OVER.

Stack now, or rope later.

>>57297950
I’m even going to mine some dust to stack.

>>57293965
1/10th the market cap is what this coin should be at right now. So it should be trading at 4.5k $/coin. Anything less than that is a discount

>>57300255
XMR is worth $1700 even at a marketcap of complete shitcoin like XRP. $632 at marketcap of doge

>>57301719
best monger investment.
Is ledger still better than a hot wallet ?
Paper one is more for hording, but not using.
Is it worth getting a terzor over just buying more XMR on ledger/paper

>>57302407

Anon/Nero is what all the chad's are using.

https://monero.town/post/223593

>>57303708
holy shit i am so out of the loop
>6 months ago

I remember years ago hearing hushed whispers in the wind about this kind of thing being a theoretical possibility, only ever being used in jury-rigged custom setups.

Is this the holy grail of wallets? This is the holy grail of wallets, isn't it?

>>57305110
The holy grail of wallets is ANON/NERO with the one that holds the key installed on a device with no mobile baseband so it can't be remotely accessed with the wifi off.

>>57305128
ok so now the bot-tier replying is making me think it is in fact shit.

>>57305134
Fuck you.

>>57305156
DO BETTER

>>57305110
>This is the holy grail of wallets, isn't it?

Pretty much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87zsE1cpbbA

1xmr=1xmr

>>57305110
>>57303708
>>57305128
>>57305110
>>57305128
>>57305156
totally not inorganic shill faggotry

>>57305470
I am never even here anymore i just report in and fuck off I don't even have anything to shill, anon. Do not rope me in with this.

>>57305470
It's OP, just bumping his own thread 40 times isn't pathetic enough so he makes sock puppets to have conversations with.

>>57305507

Shouldn't you be out celebrating the spectacular results of the ETF launch?

>>57281617
Nevermind, found out it just got successfully funded on flipstarter earlier this week
https://atomic-flip.pat.mn/en

>>57305342
this is truer than 1btc = 1btc

moonfags out

How many decent cpus do I need to mine Monero?

>>57307849
One.

Feather is the best wallet
Monero is going to moon so hard anti-mooners will rope

What else do you guys want to know?

>>57308920
I like Monero and I think that you‘re a faggot. XMR‘s price will grow much slower than BTC‘s. That‘s no reason to not buy it but BTC still is the better store of value.

>>57308943
>muh le bitshit is le store of value
rope yourself faggot
bitshit is a ponzi scheme, it has absolutely zero redeeming qualities.

It's extremely likely that I will be audited this year or the next.
does anyone have any experience be audited and asked questions about your XMR?
I want to buy like $30,000 worth of XMR solely for purpose of anonymous payments for vpn's/servers/drugs nothing that can easily be traced back to me and I don't plan on turning it back into fiat.

My understanding is that you can share a view key of an address to show all the transactions to that address excluding outgoing.

ideally I'd just pretend I have never spent any monero ever or I spent it all immediately after buying it. I can do this right? and just show the initial receiving address? I wonder if they would force you to move coins to another address to prove your holdings. I wonder if intelligence agencies would begin investigating you after purchasing a certain amount and what lengths they would go to investigate you.

I just want to pay for shit online and not have to report every thing I'm buying to the government with receipt

>>57308968
i love people who missed the train lmao they are so mad

>constantly shills Monero and dunks on Bitcoin
>recommends noobs to have 90% of BTC in their portfolio
What did he mean by this?

>>57309335
never trust bald people

>>57309342
He is generally based, just this statement seemed very off within the rest of his views.

>>57309348
nothing personal with the guy but never trust bald people thats a maxim

>>57309219
kek I got my own bitshit bag you nigger. probably I earlier than you, too. however I have no illusions about bitshit being muh store of value. it is abloated NFT-chain, a literal ponzi scheme without monetary use capabilities.

I am slowly converting my bitshit bag into XMR for the long haul. At least I can use XMR, store XMR without being snooped on. btc is retarded

>>57309207
Yes, view keys work that way. In terms of being investigated for buying Monero, I doubt small(er) fish are going to in their radar, but if it's something that worries you it might be best to just buy it in smaller chunks at a time (e.g. $2000-$3000 grand every month as needed).

>>57308920
>Feather is the best wallet
Redpill me on feather wallet.

>>57309207
>I just want to pay for shit online and not have to report every thing I'm buying to the government with receipt
Take your antisemetism back to /pol/
Your kind is not welcome here.
JK

Jokes aside, why do you want to even disclose that you are even aware that something called xmr exists?

>>57309543
You take the redpill, monerochan domfucks you everyday
You take the bluepill, you can pick your zoeyboy face and a lambo of your choice.

>>57309551
if I use domestic exchange, they share personal information of anyone buying monero
If I send more than $1000 in an overseas wire all details are automatically reported

Role for your personal monerochan

>>57267405
That's mining programs dude. It's normal.

>>57309822
8

Whats best currency to swap XMR for when you want to pay merchants?(for DEX)
USDT?
BTC seems like it's more likely to be tainted and raise some red flags

>>57303708
Incredibly based. Anything similar for BTC?
https://youtu.be/87zsE1cpbbA?si=SHwOO-oaA4arvLL3

>>57309875
None, if a faggot merchant does not accept xmr he can gfh.
Why is my spidey senses telling me that I am replying to a Tax EA on this rwandan diamond mining formum?

>>57309543
It's the best wallet. Less bloat. Just werks. Syncs faster with their seed. I also just found out it has QR codes for air-gapped transaction signing. https://docs.featherwallet.org/guides/offline-tx-signing

>>57308943
I meant do you have any questions?

>>57309207
>I just want to pay for shit online and not have to report every thing I'm buying to the government with receipt
Then you should have just used dollars because every time you spend crypto it's a taxable event lmao. But seriously just do it what are they going to do about it? If you buy the XMR with cash you'll really have nothing to worry about.

>>57309822
Gibs witch.

handmade monerochans > AI Generated monerochans.

I'm Satoshi

>>57308943
>BTC still is the better store of value.

This is the most hilarious meme the Bitfags ever concocted: "muh store of value" even though nobody actually uses Bitcoin as a store of value because its simply waaaaaaay too volatile and unpredictable to function as a reliable store of value.

Its also utterly useless as a medium of exchange so ultimately BTC is really only good for gambling with, a veritable ponzi token with no organic economic activity propping its value up.

$100K end of year!

>>57311352
>i missed the train
poor you

>>57311139
I was just about to post this, but what happened with handmade illustrations? Not to bash on the achievements of a custom AI model, but Monero-chan illustrations used to have so much soul and style in them. They used to be scarce, and high quality. Every one would be an instant save, while so far I only found a couple of AI generated ones that are worth the disk space.
I remember being in these threads specially for the purpose of scouring for new and rare Monero-chan illustrations. Even had a folder that was >1 GB, until I discovered that there was a MEGA folder. As far as I could tell, the main source of new illustrations came from the artfund, which kind of died down. The only thing in recent memory for me was when they did two (or three?) photo-shoots with some 3DPGs.
Maybe this is just one of the effects of being in a bear market, the community as a whole dies down for some years, but I still would like to see handmade Monero-chans returning over AI generated ones.

>>57309348
He's being practical, not idealistic, same as Sethforprivacy.

>>57311139

why she flat?

>>57311386

awww look, baby's first clown market! It's still real to him, dammit! :D

>>57311622
what?
what clown market? what dont you get?
just buy BTC, that's it

>xmrig running as root
>my Ryzen 9 5900x is only getting 6kh/s on p2pool
What's happening? My MacBook is just 1kh/s less than this.

>>57311639
>just buy BTC

But....why?

>>57311539
slender women deserve love too

>>57311645

run a

>sysctl vm.nr_hugpages=1280

then restart xmrig, again as root.

Beyond that it would be your hardware, in this case I'd guess slow memory or a slow disk.

>>57311652
100k next year trust me

>>57311748
>100k next year trust me

Why so bearish?

>>57311622
Its had the same trajectory since 2010. How many more cycles of sustained growth would it take for you to admit that it's not a PnD?

>>57311808
>Its had the same trajectory since 2010. How many more cycles of sustained growth would it take for you to admit that it's not a PnD?

What "growth"? Take away all the wash trading and years of Tether manipulation and you have nothing worth getting excited about.

Also, invoking (relative) long-term survival to claim legitimacy also falls flat on its face when you realize Madoff's ponzi lasted 20 goddamn years and could have survived 20 more had the housing bubble not imploded when it did.

The lesson: ponzi schemes can look very impressive and healthy from the outside but they're still all doomed to fail eventually, math always wins.

>>57311645
ARM Macs are actually pretty good CPUs.

>>57311963
Answer the question, how many years, what price or market cap would it take? Even if you think it'll never happen, everyone has a limit.

You don't know the difference between bubbles and ponzis, two very different things. If Monero was the money, or the top cryptocurrency all tether inflows would be going into it, people would speculate on it, shitty exchanges would juice their Monero trades to attract customers. People like you would be coping about how Monero is a ponzi, not realizing there's always a premium on whatever becomes the world reserve currency.

>>57311963
it's a bubble not a ponzi, happened with the fucking poppis, happened in the dotcom bubble, happened with the real state bubble

it happens, it goes up and down, that's how the market works, its not illigal, it's not going to disapear you are retarded

>>57312198
it happens everytime you want to buy something, people try to buy low and sell high, based on supply and demand, while there are two people, there is always be a market, of rocks, of leafs, of sticks, of metals, of services, of fucking btc of whatever the fuck people want to exchange

(((keynesians))) deserve the rope
that is all

>>57311715
Memory was underclocked for some reason, but after fixing it still getting ~6hk/s.
I've got 32gb of 3200hz memory and a fast NVMe.

>>57312018
Yeah, I was honestly surprised when I saw the hash rate for it. I would keep it running when I didn't use it if Macs weren't hard to repair. I'm afraid of something happening with the memory or ssd.

here's my plan
buy 100k worth of monero on kyc exchange
report 0 transactions and pretend I've got diamond hands, meanwhile constantly spend it on servers/giftcards/drugs behind tor/vpn at non-kyc place

Problem, if I change tax residency or die and monero appreciates 1000%, I have to pay tax on $900,000 for monero I may have already spent

second plan
send $100k worth of monero to a another address and pretend I sent it to someone else or donated it?
problems with plan, taxman might demand more info on recipient or force me to give my private keys

third plan
pretend I lost all my monero in a hack or boating accident. problems, taxman won't believe it and I'll be heavily investigated

fourth plan
I don't know, anyone have any better ideas?

>>57312148
>Answer the question, how many years, what price or market cap would it take? Even if you think it'll never happen, everyone has a limit.

lol price or market cap are irrelevant since, as seen, those can be manipulated. As long as wash trading is still a thing and Tether hasn't yet imploded, its impossible to take this clown market and all its fluctuations seriously.

So, what would it take? First, people actually going to prison for wash trading crypto as is the case with TradFi, that would certainly help with rooting out that practice.

Next, Tether finally getting raided and shut down or simply imploding. Either is fine, as long as the shenanigans are put to a stop.

TL;DR: take wash trading and Tether out of the equation and force BTC to sink or swim purely on the strength of its fundamentals. If it could survive and maintain its value for, say, 5 years without those crutches artificially propping it up then I'd have to take off my hat. But it won't happen, as seen, BTC is rapidly losing the confidence of black marketeers, terrorists and pedophiles i.e. its historic userbase because its fundamentals suck. It's a slowly dying memecoin.

>>57312148
>all tether inflows would be going into it,
that assumes tether is an honest actor, which is a retarded assumption. "Tether flows" doesn't occur according to honest market participants. Tether is something that's created out of thin air, and then given to the exchanges, which then pumps select coins (bitshit, since it is the one crypto that's been tamed and defanged by the status-quo). So, yes, tether flows into bitshit, but not because of the reasons you assume here. Tether, big banks, and soon the government, is in the bed together to paint bitshit the "best" crypto, so that Monero stays down, and obscure.
> shitty exchanges would juice their Monero trades to attract customers.
exchanges want to do that. but the (((govt))) threatens them with jail time if they don't delist XMR.

>it's not a ponzi it's a bubble
cope harder. enjoy your monke jpeg collections on a totally clugged, useless (apart from muh paper gains (which you won't be able to cash out anyways)) chain.

Monero is insanely discounted right now. And I am accumulating.

>>57312198
>it's a bubble not a ponzi, happened with the fucking poppis, happened in the dotcom bubble, happened with the real state bubble
>
>it happens, it goes up and down, that's how the market works, its not illigal, it's not going to disapear you are retarded

Semantics. Bitcoin has ponzi-like dynamics and relies on new bagholders buying in to cash out the older ones.

>>57312652
no man, it's not, people used to mine BTC when it was easy to do, now it's harder cause it has a limited supply, that's why the price pumps, people just buy and sell what is already in the market

>>57312691
but im not saying that USDT is a money laudry scheme tho lmao

>>57312652
but im not saying that USDT is not a money laundry scheme tho lmao

>>57311645
>>57312272
Do you have any power limits on cpu?
>>57312272
>Memory was underclocked for some reason, but after fixing it still getting ~6hk/s.
Make sure to enable XMP in the bios
>I've got 32gb of 3200hz memory
What are the timings?

>>57312272
Mining doesn't use any disk I/O besides logs and config files if your node is on a different box. If you can pop a modern RAM chip by mining too hard that probably deserves an award.

monerujo vs cake pros and cons?

>>57313587
Monerujo supports Tor nodes and SideShift. Cake lets you buy giftcards and crypto inside the app and also supports BTC and LTC, but also has some nasty XMR sync slowness bugs on newer Android OS versions. Personally I prefer Monerujo.

>>57312652
By your definition literally everything that gets bought or sold is a ponzi. Everyone who ever buys stocks, bonds, housing, gold, silver, what futures, whatever, expects to sell for more than they bought. You're just assmad that markets exist and human nature is the way it is more than anything.

>>57313587
>>57313710
i recommend Mysu. Easy Tor connection and you get greeted with sexy monerochan
http:// rk63tc3isr7so7ubl6q7kdxzzws7a7t6s467lbtw2ru3cwy6zu6w4jad onion/

Should I switch to a 16 word seed wallet now since it'll be default in Seraphis anyway?

we got a new based atomic swaps implementation by Samourai Wallet

>>57313967
>>By your definition literally everything that gets bought or sold is a ponzi. Everyone who ever buys stocks, bonds, housing, gold, silver, what futures, whatever, expects to sell for more than they bought. You're just assmad that markets exist and human nature is the way it is more than anything.

lol those things are all bought and sold because they have underlying value that is ultimately derived from some kind of utility. You can build a house or a business on real estate, the price goes up because the demand goes up. The demand goes up because of a REAL need for REAL space in a REAL world. At a base level, real estate is needed for safety in Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

A ponzi-like dynamic isn't just defined as anything that you hope you can sell for more than you paid. This is a goal for any investment or speculation. A ponzi-like dynamic is when you buy into something that offers no value beyond others buying it from you at a higher price, when IN PRACTICE it serves no other purpose than to re-distribute wealth.

Real estate, stocks, gold, and almost any other type of investment all have some intrinsic value. These investments can also be subject to speculation, but in the long run, equilibrium sets in and the markets correct to get these investments back to their true market value. Even if a house loses value, there will still be interested buyers. Some may buy for speculation, but speculators are just a middle-man looking to extract a profit, so they will in turn sell the house again. But when the price has increased to a point where profits can no longer be extracted from the investment, the only buyers left will the ones that buy the houses because they want to actually live in them, leveraging them for their *intrinsic* value.

And with stocks you at least get ownership in an ongoing enterprise with assets and revenue streams, which often pay out dividends. What's the endgame for buying Bitcoin, which offers ever-diminishing utility?

>>57315259
>A ponzi-like dynamic
Bitcoin isn't a ponzi, it doesn't meet the definition of ponzi. It's a bubble. Bubbles that don't pop for hundreds of years are called money. Here, I'll post the pasta:

Functional demand is DETRIMENTAL to a Money (store of value), price is a product of aggregate demand, a money having functional use means part of the price (proportional to it's functional demand) will be from functional demand, forcing buyers of Store of Value to pay a functional premium and subjecting them to the risk the functional demand will fall, causing real terms fall in money value independent of demand for Store of Value. This can be seen in platinum, while it's physical properties make it a strong money on paper, it's high functional demand renders it unusable as price becomes dominated by functional demand, not Store of Value demand.

Gold is the best natural money precisely because it has little functional demand, less than 10% of annual gold mining production goes towards functional use, BTC improves on this by having no functional use outside of Money (store of value).

The only intrinsic value anything has is itself. 1 BTC = 1 BTC, 1 Au oz = 1 Au oz and so on. An ounce of gold buys a ton of wheat now, but if a meteor hits the earth and decimates wheat production will it still buy a ton of wheat? Of course not. Ergo, the value is extrinsic not intrinsic, gold derives it's value from demand for Store of Value, same as BTC, BTC better meets the demand for SoV being fixed in total supply, trivially easy to authenticate, weightless, transferable trustlessly and securely and so on.

This halving marks the inflection point where BTC inflation (~1.7% now) fails well below gold mining inflation (2%), at all future points BTC will only ever be a better and better fixed unit of account and therefore a better and better store of value. Bitcoin is an inevitability

>>57315316
Fucking Keynesian brainrot
>Functional demand is DETRIMENTAL to a Money
How the fuck did money arise you massive retard? Through BARTER, through EXCHANGE. Because people thought that using the money-commodity, it would be easier to use for the next exchange. Because it had UTILITY. And through that, once people started using it, it came to a cycle of self-validation. If people are using gold, I should also use gold, because it will be easier for the next exchange. This is called the Regression theorem and is the FOUNDATION for modern economic thought about currency.
>price is a product of aggregate demand
Price is a product of supply and demand. Demand is produced by usage, and supply is affected by inflation. As simple as.

>Gold is the best natural money precisely because it has little functional demand
So why has gold been historically more used than silver? Intrinsically they are the same, they are scarce, durable, small, etc. Yet silver has less functional use than gold. Hmmmmmm
>now less than 10% goes to actual use
And what was the historical data?
>muh halvening
And who will finance the network? Transaction fees? When did that happen in the history of Bitcoin or any other larger PoW network for any sustained period of time? Will Bitcoin's infrastructure magically work until the heat death of the universe? Are you this unknowledgable about Bitcoin? As a anti-maxi I feel like I know more than most maxis about Bitcoin.

Utility is key, without it, there is nothing. Money is a medium of exchange. Now read up.
>https://mises.org/wire/critique-bitcoin-stock-flow-model
>https://mises.org/wire/cryptocurrency-money-store-value-or-medium-exchange
Also the whitepaper in case you missed it:
>https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
>https://bytecoin.org/old/whitepaper.pdf

>>57315815
People bartering fish & wheat didn't start using gold as an intermediary because it had any intrinsic value or exchange rate, but because it was the most effective of aggregating the value of fish, wheat, etc., in a society. It's the same with the US dollar or British pound, they had no value or utility in themselves, but aggregated the value of everything else.

And gold and silver are intrinsically not the same. Annual supply inflation of silver is much higher than gold, making it a worse money. And it has a much higher utility than gold, being primarily used in electronics, solar panels, etc. That's one reason it has been demonetized so much harder relative to gold, whose primary uses are as bullion (money) & jewelry.

>If people are using gold, I should also use gold
So you do understand the importance of network effects, but at the same time celebrate Monero's loss of access to markets.

>And who will finance the network?
These threads keep flip-flopping between Bitcoin being insecure because tx fees aren't enough to subsidize security & Bitcoin being unusable because tx fees are too high. Pick one.

i bought a steam gift card through cake pay but the redeeming mechanism didn't work.
support didn't help me either. avoid them.

Imagine being so insecure about something you care about that you go to places you don't like and weren't invited, to argue with people that hate you, only to ignore their bonafide refutations because it hurts your feelings because they harm the idea of the thing you like. BITCOINER KYS.

great thread, appreciate the discourse. feel like xmr as an electric money and btc as a pure sov are 2 cohabitable things, with obviously the notion that xmr isnt expected to flip btc, nor should it, because of the arguments laid out for its use as functional money, functional money leads to poor sov, cant have the cake and eat it too right

>>57316251
It's sad that XMR bros shit on BTC all the time. The "community" is by far the worst part of Monero, a miserable pit of cope and FUD. Bitcoin and Monero can and will happily coexist, just as gold and silver happily coexist.

>>57316461
agree with what youve said but I will say of all the crypto communities ive seen, at least monero has intelligent people pushing for the initial goal of this technology existing in the first place. many of the links shared and insights in this thread were valuable to me and likely to many others lurking.

most other crypto communities are purely inane niggerlicious retardation looking for moonshot and new tg sticker coins

>>57316461
>>57316545
Same, despite my earlier arguments I like Monero, I hold both and think they can coexist. But fixating on the destruction of Bitcoin as the main way for Monero to prove its value is counterproductive.

>>57316597
amen

>>57259451
>viable circular economy.
Statist slavemind. If there was demand for such, you wouldn't need it

>>57314672
when?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq7oCrel-4I

Incredibly fucking bullish. The level of retarded cope is breath-taking. We are now at the point where Peter McCormack and Lyn Alden both admit that
>Lightning is a worthless/useless hoax/scam
>Bitcoin fees are so high everyone who isn't rich is priced out
>Bitcoin privacy tools are impossble to use for normies
>Normies will never self-custody Bitcoin
And yet they keep believing in Bitcoin because... "Muh network effect!".
They literally believe that something that has no usecase and no value and no utility will win because it's popular.

>>57316251
>Bitcoin
>Store of value
Do you want to store your value in a transparent vault for the entire world to see? Do you want literally anyone with an internet connection to have the ability to look at your bank balance? The idea of Bitcoin as a SoV and XMR as medium of exchange is retarded as privacy is even MORE important for SoV than it is for transactions.

>>57316116
If fees went down (blocksize increase) miners would need to charge more for their coins to extract the same value as before, no?
Seems like a win-win.

>>57317078
AHHHHHHHH NOT THE HECKIN TRANNY YOUTUBE CONTENT CREATORS

>>57314253
>here click this random onion
post sourcecode or fuck off

>>57317139
I'm not sure I get your point. Both of these people are among the primary public advocates for Bitcoin, and both are extreme maxis. That both of them are now grudgingly beginning to admit the points Monerochads have been making for years is what the initial stages of winning look like.

I know Satoshi personally and he's going to dump all of his BTC for XMR when atomic swap is possible

>>57317169
Appeal to authority. Regardless I listened to the sections on sovereignty & lightning (20-58 mins). Lyn said:
-was always understood Bitcoin would scale in layers (e.g., fedwire settles a quadrillion dollars a year with the same TPS as Bitcoin)
-with high fees Bitcoin still out-competes other systems like international document transfers, gold sales/international shipments
-100% self-sovereignty being an unachievable ideal
-there being a spectrum of trustlessness depending on how much wealth you're dealing with
-need for an Apple-like UX for normies (a given)
-greater adoption among developing countries
-mercury & covenants (e.g., CTV) being potential scaling solutions
-lightning is still doing good, efficiency is improving, the network is growing, is good for privacy
-talked about the efficiency of custodial wallets
-importance of normalizing proof-of-reserves
-chaumian mints (fedimint) being a good alternative to custodial wallets

So your attributed statements & conclusions are bullshit. Good podcast so far though, thanks.

>>57317151
it's literally taken from the creator's twitter profile you dumb nigger.
@pokkst on twitter you mouth breathing nig

>>57317078
>Bitcoin fees are so high everyone who isn't rich is priced out
Good. Filthy poverty cretins shouldn't touch the holy ledger
>>57317124
>Do you want to store your value in a transparent vault for the entire world to see?
Yes. Better flex and keeps the oligarchs honest

>>57314672
Yes, polyseed is better. Feather, mysu and anonero wallets use it by default.

>>57315202
They two-way yet?

>>57318930
Any downsides to not being able to import into the default wallet? I assume feather is quick with updates and secure too.

>>57319540
you can convert 16 word seeds to the regular 25 word ones, too. There should be some FAQ on feather wallet's website featherwallet.org

>>57317458
none of these cope-points change the fact that
-btc fees are unusable
-btc transparency is unacceptable from a financial privacy point of use
-btc emission economics are in a "fuck if you do fucked if you don't" situation in which high fees are a requirement for continued miner incentivization, but yet, high fees also make the btc chain unusable for the everydaymen.
-layered scaling doesn't work in an easy to use and non-custodial manner. Even running LN is a shitshow that even the seasoned nerds have trouble with and give up. LN is a tool for herding the masses into custodial wallets which brings back "banking" to the btc ecosystem (oh the fucking irony, btc'ers are defending the custodial banks now---soon they will defend partial reserve system)

btc is unworkable quite soon after the halving.

Whatever shortcoming btc has, Monero has them fixed.

>>57312586
>Tether hasn't yet imploded,
Tether is Treasury's and Wallstreet's rapebaby.
If the dollar milkshake theory is right then everybody will want US dollarinos while no one will buy T-bills.
How do kill two birds with one stone?
Create a stable coin named US Tethery that loads on paper and shits out dollarinos.
USDT will be around for longer time than what people hope.
It is one last attempt at establishing a global single-currency system that the commies imagined.

>>57316461
>Bitcoin and Monero can and will happily coexist, just as gold and silver happily coexist.
Wow, this is some weapons grade psyops targetting all non-veteran channers.
Your bitcoin is a government cock sucking nonfungible token used to buy lambo and cocaine after paying IRS
Our monero is fungible currency used to buy milk and eggs from nearest organic farmer while yelling fuck the IRS
We are not the same bro.

>>57320195
Wow, impressive sales pitch you have there. You do you.

>>57315316
>gold derives it's value from demand for Store of Value

Most of the demand for gold comes from the jewelry sector. If 100% of the demand for gold as a SoV vanished overnight it would still have substantial demand and therefore value.

>same as BTC

Uh, no. Nobody is actually using BTC as a store of value because its highly unpredictable and prone to wild fluctuations, that's why stablecoins had to be invented and are still a thing.

The primary source of demand for BTC is now purely speculative i.e. buy low, sell high. And once that demand finally dries up, game over.

I get monero rules cyberspace but the real world which is air, land and sea is full of cops and its inevitable you are going to get taxed so while monero may work for buying your local fish there is way it can be used internationally in a profitable way other that drug markets basically what i am saying any business not related to drugs would just better off giving the tax man his share, fill the paperwork and use the $ for international trade in the end we have all paid taxes in history

>>57322333
Not all of us live in overpoliced urban shitholes.

I'm Satoshi

>>57316116
And you didn't read any of the things I sent in. It shows.
>was the most effective of aggregating the value
Function as pricing comes secondary to exchange. For anything to be a unit of currency, it must be already be accepted for barter purposes. From there, its utility as a currency can show itself in a barter system as people try various commodities as mediums for their indirect exchange. Currency is first and foremost a medium of exchange. Not SoV, not a unit of account, not any succinct quality. Though those will likely be preferred by market participants.
>loss of access to markets
What markets? Highly fraudulent liquidity markets that deflate the price? The positive effect for those as a factor for adoption is negligible, but their negative effect vastly outweighs the positives. This isn't exclusive to Monero, FED money and fraudulent exchanges have done a great deal of harm to the price action and hence adoption of crypto as a whole.
>high fees will result in an unusable network
>high fees will result in insufficient miner subsidy
>pick one
Alright, what happens if network fees increase two-fold? Do total fees increase two-fold as well to compensate? No. For example, a tenfold increase in fees would probably result in a 100-fold decrease in usage. It's not a linear relationship. And it's not flip-flopping, it's two sides of the same coin. Higher fees will mean less people and less network security, and by such a margin that the higher fees will not compensate for the lost transactions.
>silver
Funnily enough, silver supply has stagnated with production decreasing. Silver's supply is being deflated, while gold continues to inflate.
>b-but use
the original points were that it has a risk that the demand will fail, and that is 0% for silver. Also run a fact-check on the claim that gold use is 90% SoV, and well, see >>57321921 (wanted to post the same lmao). Where tf did you get 10% from?
Either way, READ THE GODDAMN LINKS

>>57322575
Might as well post this instead.

>>57322484
I mean if you want to get out of your shithole you need to trade internationaly and to do that you need to follow the rules otherwise you are fucked

>>57319968
>>57320680
>>57321951
what's up with the pepe skeleton?

>>57322681
Nope.

Monero is more like gold because of tail-emissions.

>>57321921
There is no functional difference between gold and tungsten-filled gold, ergo 100% of gold's jewelry demand is Store of Value demand. Never forget that gold as a bulk metal isn't particularly useful, less electrically and thermally conductive than copper, if gold were as plentiful as copper it would still have far less functional demand.
>muh volatility
An artifact of it's low capitalization. Anyway, a SoV does not store value through magic, they all fluctuate in real terms, it holds value by meeting the demand for a store of value (scarce, easily authenticatable etc) AND having a network of use as a SoV. Store of Value is a fundamental economic demand seen universally throughout human history, something will be used, gold and large cap equities are the current dominate players, but BTC fills the niche better (fixed in supply, trivially authenticate, trustlessly transferable, weightless etc), and it's network advantage over other crypto is an insurmountable hurdle to clear. Bitcoin will continue its SoV marketshare growth unabated.

>>57323516
>but BTC fills the niche better
btc doesn't even work.
not fungible. no privacy. high fees (has to be) so people are disincentivized from passing it around. who pays the miners?

>muh SoV
the last and final cope of bitshitters. literally no other claim to use is left for them. oh I forgot one use case: monke jpeg NFT's!

>>57323516
but does BTC become more expensive to move as its price increases? whereas gold extracts more value while becoming less expensive to move per unit as its value increases?
you act like everyone is ignoring the fees, they're not.

>>57319708
You were bulshitting about Lyn Alden's statements. I simply pointed out what he actually said.

And Monero hasn't fixed shit, low fees are a product of a smaller user base (tx count currently 21X less that Bitcoin) and lower security (miner revenue 415X less than Bitcoin). A free ride is easy when the stakes are lower.

>>57320195
I am certain you can buy milk and eggs from way more people with Bitcoin than with Monero.

>>57321921
>highly unpredictable and prone to wild fluctuations
pic related. volatility has been going down since inception

>>57322575
>a tenfold increase in fees would probably result in a 100-fold decrease in usage
That makes zero sense. If usage dropped that much, fees would go down because there would be no demand for blockspace. The reason fees are high is because demand is high. Fees are entirely a product of demand.

>silver supply has stagnated with production decreasing
Silver supply has stagnated/decreased with its consumption as an industrial metal. It is almost entirely used for its utility now, which is why its such a poor money.

>>57267401
Nope.avi

>>57323826
if fees dropped by half but twice as many could be processed at the same time, who loses?

>>57323826
>Monero hasn't fixed shit
nigger Monero literally brought in the adaptive blocksizes (along with the tail emission), so that we aren't cucked to muh 1 MB blocks which necessitates high fee per tx on the bitshitland.

On Monero, it can scale up to demand in transactions while preserving low fees.

Monero fixes the fungibility problem that haunts btc.
Monero fixes the privacy problem of btc.
Monero fixes the hardware specialization problem of btc.

Fucking idiot.

>>57323860
The node operators dumbass

>>57323875
how?

>btc is le unusable store of value
Then why does it need the Lightning network?

>>57323895
SoV as the only marketable quality of BTC would be dead if lightning actually worked

>>57323882
>increase tx throughput by 2X
>node size growth, bandwidth, UTXO growth (affects RAM usage) all increase by ~2X
>decentralization reduced as it's more prohibitive to run a node

And Segwit is already a thing, they already did increase the block size in 2017, doubling tx throughput to ~14 TPS. But you can't do that indefinitely while keeping nodes accessible.

>>57323976
mining nodes can adjust their cost benefit analysis and increase their floor to sell. non-mining nodes are presumably also users of the network who will benefit more than the marginal cost of RAM these days.
All the while, you make BTC more attractive for those who are already priced out by the fees (poors, like your imagined non-mining node users)

>>57323976
>they already did increase the block size in 2017,
that's a false narrative. you guys didn't increase the blocksize, but just fit in more un-orthodox transactions into the SAME BLOCKSPACE.

>tx throughput to ~14 TPS
holy shit. slow down ya matey, 14 tps!!?? whoawwww...

Monero, on the other hand, adapts its own blocksize limit according to the transactions waiting to get in the blokchain.

>decentralization reduced as it's more prohibitive to run a node
2018 called and it wants its memes back. You stupid idiot you can literally get TBs of disk space for 100s of dollars. I don't know how MUH DISKSPACE is still an argument you are using to defend your point.

Literal retardation.

>>57323882
For Monero it's even worse since nodes have to have fast access to the entire TXO set, not just the UTXO set

>>57324009
It was a way to increase throughput while avoiding a hard fork and remaining backwards compatible with older nodes

Also the rate of improvement in disk cost efficiency has been slowing for years, not a viable long term solution. And as mentioned before, it's not just disk space, but bandwidth, ram, managing the TXO set, that you have to worry about.

>>57324050
so the solution is just to do nothing?
lmao

>>57309822
Farmer plz

>>57324057
The solution is to build several layers like lightning, chaumian mints, CTV or some kind of covenants, since no one needs to settle a $2 coffee purchase against a billions of dollars of security. You can aggregate those on something like lightning.

>>57324090
>ah shit time to put more money in the lightning channel
>-$50
>coffee transaction fails to route anyway
amazing

>>57324050
>It was a way to increase throughput while avoiding a hard fork and remaining backwards compatible with older nodes
th2n say it like this, and not pull a LIE out of your ass "we increased le blocksize guisee"

>Also the rate of improvement in disk cost efficiency has been slowing for years, not a viable long term solution. And as mentioned before, it's not just disk space, but bandwidth, ram, managing the TXO set, that you have to worry about.
literal non-issues for the foreseeable future. Also you are not considering possible future solutions to these technical problems that might show up as we move forward.

But hey, you do you and keep btc gimped. Too bad it is not possible to bring forth the cypherpunk dream into reality with it. Oh well, we have Monero for that.

>>57324090
>all these custodial solutions
just admit you guys wanna be the new bankers.

>>57324111
Monero hasn't even finalized its base layer, despite a decade of development the devs are pushing several more rewrites of the entire system, and you're complaining that lightning is still being optimised (which has improved a lot lately). Maybe fix your own shit first.

>>57324156
I just want BTC to be good

>>57324156
literally name one use case where Monero fails technically.

On the other hand, you got your technicall-minded influencers failing to use LN to pay for drinks on twatter.

>>57324156
>finalized
who's gonna tell him?

NEW THREAD: >>57324279
>NEW THREAD: >>57324279
NEW THREAD: >>57324279
>NEW THREAD: >>57324279
NEW THREAD: >>57324279
>NEW THREAD: >>57324279

>>57324124
The block size is increased though, look at the blocks, they're all pushing 2MB.

They are building based on knowns, not hypothetical future unknowns. Given how supply chains went to shit, it seems prudent.

Lie. Lightning isn't custodial, CTV is a base layer opcode, and fedimints are federated custody. Its giving people options depending on their wealth and risk tolerance.

>>57324180
Its a bad comparison, given Monero has way less users & security.

>>57324169
You just want Bitcoin to magic away the laws of physics and all practical constraints

>>57324379
>They are building based on knowns, not hypothetical future unknowns.
nigger LN designers themselves has said the blocksize has to be increased far more than muh 2MB in order for LN to work. How's that "working with knowns" for ya?

>>57324379
nice evasion. non-answer.

>>57324468
Best solution currently would be CTV, an Opcode allowing a single UTXO to account for multiple lightning addresses.

>>57323826
>Fees are entirely a product of demand.
Oh my retard, I had to cut out the part where I explained this, but I naively thought it was alright because the context would hint at it.
TOTAL FEES WOULD NEED TO GO UP TO MAINTAIN MINER SUBSIDY
The fact that you find this unlikely to happen just proves this. The natural fee market isn't enough to sustain Bitcoin's network security that is 98% being provided by the block reward.
>It is almost entirely used for its utility now, which is why its such a poor money.
Do you not read? I originally posted
>b-but use
>the original points were that it has a risk that the demand will fail, and that is 0% for silver.
Now that there is no 2k character count limit, I will also add that "usage premium" is simply incorporated into the price the same way it is done for Bitcoin.
>picrel
LMAO, now do Monero.
>>57324379
>Lightning isn't custodial
Someone didn't get the memo, 60%+ of ALL LN liquidity is in the hands of 5 entities. The major wallets are all custodial mobile apps, and almost nobody bothers to run a node for more than 1 year.
>CTV is a base layer opcode
And they might enable self-censoring transactions. No issue there.
>fedimints are federated custody
>federated
>custody
>these are non-custodial
>federated custody
You're more dense than fucking depleted uranium.
>way less users
Weird, someone isn't aware of their data.

But from the looks of it, even you know you got BTFO ITT, so you will crawl back to your Twitter circlejerk with the rest of your kind.

>page 10
>bump limit
>maxi status: BTFO
>won't engage in new thread
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