/biz/ - Business & Finance

If that pic was true the EU wouldn't deliberately try to make energy more expensive on the continent retard

That seems like a prime candidate for correlation /=/ causation though. Of course richer countries can afford to consume more energy per capital

>>57198672
Peak Oil is a scam, and it is already long known that Oil and Gas is created inside the Earths plasma core.

>>57198682
>thinking that europe behaves as a rational actor
yea ok
>>57198687
Well, would you disagree with the notion that in general, a unit of GDP requires oil to be produced?
>>57198691
Thanks for commenting!

>>57198714
I don’t disagree with that notion no, I for a long time subscribed to the SEED’s notion that the economy is fundamentally an energy system built on the return on energy invested.

However, if you want to make the argument that oil and it’s derived production can be a malinvestment itself, and that money/economy can be or is fundamentally separate from production (somehow), then oil is just another product rich nations consume. It’s like saying that nations which buy more Ferraris per capita are richer

>>57198714
>Thanks for commenting
sure, also did you know that they only teach this "its liquid dinosaur" BS only in the West?
In the Soviet Union and pre pozzed Germany they already had accepted since WW2 that the Fischer–Tropsch process proves its abiotic and has basically unlimited supply.

>>57198777
Well, I'd say that it's a raw material system, not simply an energy system. You can say that it takes energy to extract iron (for example), but it also takes steel to extract energy.

I think energy is in a sense an "expander of the effect of human effort." If you have to walk 200 miles to a vacation spot, that's too much effort. If you can spend a few hours of wages to buy gas to drive there, that's a whole lot less effort and you can engage in more economic activity for a given unit of your human effort.

>>57198778
Okay well, then what's the replenishment rate of the oil and how does it compare to the extraction and consumption rate?

>>57198687
the energy needs to come from somewhere. rich countries have more capacity to create energy. thats what makes them rich

>>57198828
>Okay well, then what's the replenishment rate of the oil and how does it compare to the extraction and consumption rate?
I forget, one time i calculated it to see what population number we'd need for oil to not be considered a non-renewable resource. My memory may be hazy on this, but I believe the number I came to was if every human being died except for 10,000 american citizens, and their per capita consumption didn't change, the earth's natural formation of crude oil would keep up with usage forever.

>>57198828
>what's the replenishment rate of the oil
its actually replenishing pretty fast and we are nowhere near the level where we can use all of it, not even close. it would be like saying the fish are drinking the ocean empty.

>>57198672
Wealth = energy expenditure
Bitcoin is energy expenditure in its purest form
Bitcoin = wealth

>>57198856
>>57198860
How do you know how fast it's replenishing?

>>57198862
>Wealth = energy expenditure
I think it's more
>Wealth = the ability to expend energy

>>57198860
>its actually replenishing pretty fast
euuhh... no it really isn't..

>>57198869
>How do you know how fast it's replenishing?
I forgot like I said, but i found the info on google and went from there to get the 10,000 number. I'm sure you could easily also find it. And I'll bet 1 whole VOO that it's not even within several orders of magnitude keeping up with extraction.

>>57198869
>How do you know how fast it's replenishing?
because I know what process creates it.
>>57198874
yes it is, jews lied to you so they can make everyone pay more.
you probably havent figured out what the jews are doing because you are brainwashed from years of propaganda.

>>57198896
So tell us the process and how you can arrive at sensible numbers

>>57198687
>>57198869
The distribution isn't perfectly normal, and in the case of non normal distributions, causality can be inferred from correlation.
Eyeballing it, it seems the GDP distribution has longer tails, so I'd assume GDP is the causal factor, though would need to run it through dlingam to check.

>>57198862

>>57198903
>low IQ reaction image instead of an argument
Make an argument.

>>57198900
What do you think the impact of GDP would be if you took away all the energy?

>>57198896
I'm not even going to look it up, I can logically debunk your stupid claim. it took hundreds of millions of years for all that oil to get there, we have extracted roughly 1.5 trillion barrels of oil from the earth, so you're saying the earth generates 1.5 trillion barrels of oil per let's say 100 years for simplicity's sake. You sincerely believe 7.5 sextillion barrels of oil were formed underground over the last 500 million fucking years? You stupid goddamned nigger. That's 2.25 septillion pounds of fucking crude oil The earth would only weigh 13 septillion pounds. You bumbling buffoon. You idiot.

>>57198915
The government would probably engage in some financial Hebrewmancy to show GDP was actually up, despite us all living in mud huts.

>>57198899
I actually already explained it but because you seem slow I will explain it to you again as simple as possible:

>Earths plasma core produces Oxygen, Hydrogen, Carbon and lots of other Elements
>Temperatures of 150–300 °C (302–572 °F) and pressures of one to several tens of atmospheres are enough to create Hydrocarbons as was proven with the Fischer Tropsch Process
>this Process is something that happens literally EVERYWHERE underground

>>57198942
>hundreds of millions of years/last 500 million
The Earth actually isnt hundreds of millions of years old.
jews lied to you about this.
Also the Earth is expanding and you probably also didnt know this.

basically you didnt know any of this because you got brainrot from jewish fake education. you actually know nothing.

>>57198958
Can you same some types of economic activity that would still exist?
Like.. that Amazon package you're waiting for. How would that be delivered? How would you even turns on your computer to order it?

>>57198964
Okay sure but how do we know that the oil replenishment rate via abiotic processes is high enough to compensate for the current extraction rates.
And at what point in the future, giving increasing extraction rates, should we expect it to become an issue.
Just saying
>abiotic, therefore don't worry about it
seems insufficient.

>>57198682
they can afford to pay for renewables, once the psyop is complete consumption will spike

>>57198672

>>57198672
If peak oil was real, why wouldn't we just switch to nuclear?

energy != oil

>american petroleum engineers do the unthinkable around 2005 and squeeze oil out of a rock
>access to the majority of oil on the planet is now not only possible, but economically viable
>the most faggot psuedointellectual, doombrained, blackpilled, eurocuck pieces of shit imaginable are still jerking themselves into a stupor over peak oil

People LOVE their pain. They NEED their pain to fulfill their own ridiculous main character fantasies.

>>57198672
nice thread OP. surplus energy economics is based.
>>57198777
>oil is just another product rich nations consume
yes. they consume it and are thereby rich. rich = prosperous = possessing of SURPLUS energy.
>>57198778
>In the Soviet Union and pre pozzed Germany they already had accepted since WW2 that the Fischer–Tropsch process proves its abiotic and has basically unlimited supply.
what is the best source for this redpill?
>>57198869
>How do you know how fast it's replenishing?
indeed
>>57198964
>>Earths plasma core produces Oxygen, Hydrogen, Carbon and lots of other Elements
are you saying the earth's core has a fusion reaction going on?
>>57199753
the key factor is the energy return (EROI). it's not that there isnt physically oil etc. remaining, it's that it is harder to extract, i.e. it requires a greater expenditure of energy. that means that net, there is less extracted.
non-hydrocarbon fuel sources have low EROI, something like 10-15:1 or possibly less. this is the regime that hydrocarbons seem to be in now, as opposed to their highs a century ago (100:1).
this still seems high, but a large amount of that has to be expended to just maintain our civilizational complexity system.
growth is generated by having energy above and beyond maintenance.
part of the surplus energy thesis is that this decline in EROI explains the decline in real growth over the past half century or so.

>>57198672
OP, read carroll quigley's evolution of civilizations. i think you will be able to tie it in the with the energy thesis quite nicely.
>groups of humans develop some organization which is capable of acquiring a surplus and investing it in order to generate a return
>this creates an age of expansion for the civilization
>(in our case, capitalism + technology + abundant hydrocarbons = modern prosperity)
>eventually the organization become "institutionalized", and vested interests (oligarchs) try to keep it going despite it failing to accomplish its purpose (growth).
>age of conflict arises
>eventually the periphery of the civilization conquers the core and establishes a "universal empire".
>universal empire is a faux golden age, which eventually leads to decay of the civilization.
in my opinion, the only civilization left in the world is "modern civilization". its core is europe, its periphery is america, and its outer-most periphery is the global south. the further from the core you get the greater lag there is in terms of development.

>>57200440
`When a universal empire is established in a civilization the society enters upon a "golden age." At least this is what it seems to the periods that follow it. Such a golden age is a period of peace and of relative prosperity. Peace arises from the absence of any competing political units within the area of the civilization itself, and from the remoteness or even absence of struggles with other societies outside. Prosperity arises from the ending of internal belligerent destruction, the reduction of internal trade barriers, the establishment of a common system of weights, measures, and coinage, and from the extensive government spending associated with the establishment of a universal empire. But this appearance of prosperity is deceptive. Little real economic expansion is possible because no real instrument of expansion exists. New inventions are rare, and real economic investment is lacking. The vested interests have triumphed and are living off their capital, building unproductive and blatant monuments like the Pyramids, the "Hanging Gardens of Babylon," the Colosseum, or (as premature examples) Hitler's Chancellery and the Victor Emmanuel Memorial. The masses of the people in such an empire live from the waste of these non-productive expenditures. The golden age is really the glow of overripeness, and soon decline begins. When it becomes evident, we pass from Stage 5 (Universal Empire) to Stage 6 (Decay).` p.159
>pax americana
>wall street financialization parasitizes remaining productivity
>BRICS (possessing actually productive assets still) challenges declining hegemon...
sasuga history-sama

>>57200444
well i suppose its just a fact of reality. the moment you think things are going really well and cant turn bad is the peak.

>>57198778
>its liquid dinosaur
>unlimited supply
Texas and California have hundreds of exhausted oil wells. Your backwards country, whatever it is, has developed so slowly that you've yet to tap out a well.

https://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2007/02/mining-vasty-deep-i.html

>>57198672

#1. There is no such thing as "peak oil".

#2. The world would be better off with Emerging Markets having more access to cheap fossil fuels. This requires a stable government with a functional court system, in a capitalist-minded society with protection of private property rights and a decent educational and healthcare system, which gives an incentive to stay in and/or migrate to that country.

#3. This is a direct threat to the United States, which is why the USA and its vassal states (NATO) will continue to do everything they can to destroy and destabilize every country not under their direct influence.

>>57199753
we are switching to nuclear. the winners in the world are, anyway. losers are still hallucinating that wind and solar are better.

>>57198691
This. USSR scientists proved this years ago

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_VpyoAXpA8

>>57199753
Oy vey this post is antisemetic

>>57198964
>Earth core produces hydrogen
No, it doesn't. Hydrogen is produced in stars, by collapsing a bunch of quantums onto solid mass. You can extract hydrogen from other compunds, such as water by heating it up, but then again, you would need hydrogen to create water. The core of the earth doesn't create hydrogen
>Fischer Tropsch method creates hydrocarbons
Yeah, it does. It creates liquid fuel, out of... drum roll... other hydrocarbons such as coal and gas. Where do you think coal comes? Biological sources. Also, the Fischer Tropsch method is unable to create the higher mass hydrocarbons obtained in oil. Which is expected if oil is created by a biogenic process.
God, the american education system is a failure in every aspect.

>>57198672
newfags act like oil is the first form of depletable energy in human history

this is a cycle we've been through
first it was wood
then charcoal
then coal
then oil

whenever one source of energy isn't enough we move to another

first of if we were in any real danger of running out of oil you'd see huge investments into nuclear, solar, wind, asteroid mining etc.

the fact that energy investments are actually at a historic low tells there's no danger within our lifetimes

>>57198672
>No such thing as a low-energy rich country
woah, what an astounding revelation. Did a 14-year old pajeet came up with this?

>>57198672
Peak oil is fake and gay.
Climate change isn't real.

Detrimental energy politics should be nailed against a wall and shot until the wall is gone.

>>57198672
Peak Oil is something of a meme. We will never run out of oil. What will happen and what does matter is the energy costs associated with extracting energy, which has been trending upwards. If we do not find a suitably dense and anergy efficient source to replace mineral sources, for which extraction costs in terms of energy have been trending upwards, there is no avoiding drastic drops in standards of living over the coming century.
""""Green""" energy sources are nowhere near as dense and require high energy inputs for somewhat meager outputs. I doubt a """"green""" energy system could be maintained without mineral sources.
Building nuclear seems viable but monetary costs would have to plummet for it to be really viable.

>>57198682
wat

It's not expensive if you're in an inflation-proof economic position. It's a way for those people to make sure they will end up in a high-energy rich country, as they predict that this situation will be much rarer going forwards.

What you're seeing there is the rich-friends in the EU lifting the ladder up after them, deciding that it's actually fine for peak oil to cause collapse because now they know they will end up in the high-energy rich country part of the EU even as most EU citizens end up in a low-energy poor country.

>>57198691
this, realized this after working in oil industry. Reservoirs deplete but are rechargeable by some mystery mechanism that geologists always change the subject on when you ask about it.

>>57198672
Oil is crashing, we have the opposite problem of not knowing how to get people to keep consuming.

>>57203570
I still think it's dead algae being pushed through rocks by water pressure.

>>57199000
what needs to happen is humans need to herd themselves like animals in that 4 quadrant model farmers use to replenish grass that free roaming cattle eat, since you dont want cattle to eat the same plot of grass over and over you move them to a fresh quadrant. so we need to quadrant our old oil fields and let them naturally replenish and move onto an unused quadrant that built up over time

>>57200444
yep BRICS is going to take over any day now kek

>>57198672
Our global oil reserves are limited so a smart investors we should use our gains to prepare for it. An electric car is a great first buy but you still need to produce food (tractors and trucks both still need diesel) so start a home farm as well. Also get solar panels and a house battery for electricity.

>>57198691
It’s not plasma core but you’re right about oil being renewable and coming from under or inside the crust

>>57199000
>Can you same some types of economic activity that would still exist?
>Like.. that Amazon package you're waiting for. How would that be delivered?
>How would you even turns on your computer to order it?
Nigger are you serious? Do you really think the earth only started existing when you were born? This reeks of glownigger solipsism. We haven't even been using oil for transportation for 200 years and you think that the world would magically stop without it?

>>57205401
"We'll survive without oil" guy should not call anyone else a nigger. You are the dumbest piece of shit in here, by far.

>>57205453
>Oh yeah, chud, how will we farm?
People still use beasts to help them with that in parts of the world.
>How will we get cheap shit from china
The US was the center of the world for cheap, well made mind you, shit until the jews.
>How do you order things
THE FUCKING MAIL

LMAO listen to yourself. Now I know this thread is in bad faith when every solution that doesn't tow the jewish line is immediately shot down with ad hominem and other reddit tier retorts. KYS.

>>57205502
you can't farm nearly as much area with just animal power. But I don't think you get it at all; oil isn't just "thing that makes cars go" its the feedstock for a couple dozen chemicals that are in turn feedstocks for fifty thousand things. Everything man-made you have ever heard of, touched, smelt, felt, coveted, thrown away, or walked by had oil involved in multiple steps of production, leaving aside transportation entirely.

>>57205538
Okay then, an actual rebuttal. I get your point, but it doesn't refute the fact that humanity has, and due to that fact, literally means it would compensate for a supply chain break down. Wages would go up, farmers would use peoples and beasts instead of large machines, solar panels and batteries would be the temporary hot commodity, prices would unironically drop due to the massive deflation caused by increased wages, and the globe would keep on turning. Acting like humans would ever experience another stone age is the histrionic bullshit, and jews not wanting purchasing power going back to the hands of Europeans by virtue of their labor and racial superiority is probably why they are trying to prevent that eventuality.

Peak oil is fake and gay, we have the technology to make V8s get 40mpg.

>>57198672
It will happen eventually (might have happened already if you consider how harder and more expensive it gets to extract oil every year). What worries me more than energy is plastics. We still don't have a full replacement for plastic. Sanitation, agriculture, and industry will be set back a century or two without plastic.
>inb4 meme article about plastic replacement.
It doesn't exist. We need to it to be durable against water, bacteria, and temperature fluctuations.

>>57205811
>Sanitation, agriculture, and industry will be set back a century or two without plastic.
Did the world just up and forget how to make glass? This thread is for sure just datamining using globohomo talking points as bait. Fuck all of you.

>>57205767
Don't get me wrong, peak oil is fake and gay. Oil itself? Real and straight and very very important. A long-term breakdown in the oil supply chain would kill at minimum 6 billion people. We use oil to make fertilizer too, so starvation is the cause of death here. Wages wouldn't go up or down, they would more or less cease to exist. Food would be the only hard currency and while that doesn't kick us back to the stone age, it does kick us back a long way.
>>57205897
Too expensive for most. A world without oil is a world where everything in your room - including the room - is only affordable to the 1%.

>>57205906
>kill minimum 6 billion people.
Damn dude, so you're telling me that going back to an agrarian culture we could kill african, india, sandland, and a good number of spics and SEAmonkeys? I like the cut of your jib, I'll meet you on the farmlands, brother.
>[Glass is] too expensive for most.
See above. You really are the worst, I'm done replying to you.

>>57205401
>he thinks his amazon order will be delivered overnight by horse and cart
top kek

>>57206489
Nice strawman, retard. I never mentioned speed, only history making it feasible that systems and even society would continue, albeit at a slower pace. KYS.