/biz/ - Business & Finance

If I would have to guess, I would say late 2019 - early 2020. 98% of the shitcoins die and just hardcore tech is clinging onto life.

>>5712795

Nigger, this is not a bubble. A bubble is when the majority stakeholders don't know there's a bubble. With cryptos, we all know most of these coins are overvalued relative to their utility, it's a speculators market run by speculators.

We'll actually be in a bubble when Boomer retards are clamoring in droves to buy alts to get-rich-quick. Right now we're actually the "smart money" and transitioning into the "institutional money" phase. Then comes the "public" phase. Then the bubble comes.

2019 might be a bubble year if the public starts buying crypto like mad in 2018, which they likely will. For now just be smart about your money and have a good exit strategy in case of emergency.

To be frank, for my $600 investment. This place and having crypto has provided some great entertainment. Far more than my initial investment.

>>5712795
"experts" say this is going to be the biggest bubble ever

dotcom was 5 trillion when it popped

we are only at 600 billion

no need to worry yet

can i make a mil before the tulip bubble pops and takes down a ton of financial institutions with it?

there is no bubble yet, smart money is here, when the normies will come, there will be only the penny shit scam coins vaporware left for them and everything else will be already too expensive and mooned to invest.

>>5712931
Alright. Let's make more money

Shitcoins are bound to collapse, i give it a year

cryptocurrencies are in this bizarre situation (mostly I believe as a result of inflated marketcaps due to how they are worked out in the cryptosphere and the extent to bitcoins overvaluation with regards to its fundmental tech) where they are simultenaeously overvalued and undervalued. I think there are a good couple years left of this bullish market unless there are some big changes.

>>5713599
This is the last year before the bubble bursts in 2019
If you don't have atleast 20k You don't have any chance of a million

Just invest in coins that have actual utility and no matter what happens you'll be fine.

For me OMG is a clear winner that will be resistant to whatever happens to BTC.

>>5712931
This seems pretty logical. I think by the end of 2018 many of us will be set

>>5713699
Does my portfolio need to be 20k right now? Or do I need to invest 20k right now?
I'm at 14k right now.

>>5712931
This right here. Don't worry if your Paw-Paw starts asking you about Bitcoins. Only start to worry when your family start asking your opinion about TRX, and wouldn't it be great to buy it when it's so cheap? It might be worth thousands of dollars someday!

>>5713810
kinda agree with this, most people i've heard talking about cryptos (bitcoin) from the older generation all admit that they have no idea how to buy it or how it works or anything and so are standing on the sidelines

>>5713865
Ya most are still scared.

They believe in the bubble meme so much lol.

>>5713810
There's this dude I buy my vegetables from. He's always lived in a farm, got his first cell phone last year. He was asking me how deep he should go on Verge.

>>5713932
Mmm... farmers can be actually fairly tech-savvy, being isolated from other people and dealing with multi-hundred thousand dollar facilities. Verge was the highest cypto in the google search charts a day or two ago, beating everything else. McAfee had a monster effect, don't know where it currently sits. I'd say we're still very safe.

I started in summer this year after spending years of doing nothing and mining digecoin in like 2013 for fun.
I invested 3k$ and am now at 76k$ mostly thanks to: ETH, Lisk, Kyber and request.
I fucking hope I make it to a mil before everything burns to the ground. The more money my shit is worth, the more worried I get.
At this level, money is actually moving fast. Good luck boys, I hope you'll make it this year

Guys, come on. Let's not be euphoric to the point of blindness.

If we, right now, are considered Smart Money, what does that make people who have been in crypto since 2010?

We're end-game.

>>5714073
>what does that make people who have been in crypto since 2010?
people who buy drugs online

>>5712931
You don’t understand that most normies in on crypto don’t see it as a bubble rather they junk it will climb indefinitely and the 20 dollar investment they made will become 200000000 one day

>>5714024
Nigger a farmer daily aligns mechanical tractor tools that if calibrated incorrectly will either take your hand off or fuck up your field's geometry and cause you days of trouble.

You think such a mind will have a trouble understanding a single autist's code?

>>5714073
im on cource to make 1 billion by end of year. i hope i can make it before crypto gets banned worldwide

>>5713426
This, even if I lose all of my money this will be the most fun I've ever had on any website ever

>>5712931
You are either fucking deluded or mad you’re late to the party.

We are most definitely not in smart money, coinbase was the #1 downloaded app in the AppStore for several weeks last month. Every normie is in altcoins as seen by the fact you could pick any single coin in the top 100 on coin marketcap at the start of December and you have at very minimum doubled youre money, no matter how shit the coin is, even projects that have been abandoned for years.

On the chart you’re referencing media attention comes during public phase, I don’t know if you’re aware but CNBC literally held a 24/7 crypto week where all they did was talk about bitcoin and alt coins for a week, Snapchat even had a fucking global story on bitcoin, every local news station has mentioned it and any random person has heard about it and they fucking stupid story about the 10k btc pizza.

With the type of crazed buying mania and everyone making money and feels like no one is losing I would argue we are much closer to the peak of this bubble.

Normies on Facebook buying crypto with their iPhone are not smart money nor are they institutional money it is most definitely public

>>5714073
The issue is the amount of money that is being put into it. If anything the people who got in sorta before end of 2016 at this point were almost too smart for their own good with regards to their returns over the past 6 years, of course they made a lot of money but in % terms over time they made a lot less than the recent year. 2017 is the first year, I feel, where crypto has really exploded and the whole world has taken proper notice. This is probably the beginning of the end with regards to the insane growths we are seeing but this has already been around over 7 years and I don't think it is going to end this year. Having said that there is a huge correction due when we recalibrate how we understand crypto marketcaps and when we lose pairings & valuations based on bitcoin.

>>5714073
2009-2015 were basement dwelling NEETs playing with magic internet coins.
2015-2017 is when real money started to move into the space, but still fairly niche.
2018-??? is when real investors start taking blockchain tech seriously. Real projects actually start to grow and shape the financial world.

We're still a year off from these real projects actually having a sizable impact against established giants like Visa. Once the quakes begin and the establishment starts clamoring for regulation to protect their own interests, then you'll know when the bubble is about to pop.

After that comes the fall, when 90% of crypto dies off, and only the real projects remain.

Crypto is exploding because people have longed a way to escape Bernanke & Yellen's control.
Gold exploded from $500 to $1200 because of QE. same as the stock market has had an explosion of PE ratios.
People are desperate for something that can keep its value when the government is imposing unrepresented taxes through inflation.

But the problem with Gold is that it can't be traded easily. If you buy physical gold... well good luck selling it at market value. Bonds are low yield.

It has all the valuable properties of Gold, and can easily be traded, more efficiently than current systems.
Crypto is still way undervalued. It's easily worth $5 trillion.

>>5712915
This.

Not because I know so... Because this is been said by prominent figures ever since 2016.

We are only getting started.
The blockchain is only now being used in real life applications, not just trials but legitimately being used and it can only expand from here, bringing blockchain technology to the average person, whether this a revolutionary technology that can change humanity is up for debate but one thing is certain these gains are only starting, this ain’t a bubble until we hit 1trillion son.
Unlike the Dotcom bubble which was mainly American and capital from developed countries, the crypto market is the whole world, if anything this bubble should be much bigger.

>>5714135
I said tech-savvy, you utter mong. Meaning I fully believe a farmer would be able to understand crypto.

How can it be a bubble when less than 1% of the human population has invested in it?

There is still a lot of room to go but shitcoins with no value like Verge will definitely make retards lose a lot of money.

>>5714157
This, you know what you are talking about and Im guessing you have been here for years. It honestly feels like we are running out of potentil buyers

>>5714197
Oh sorry, quoted you by mistake, post was meant to reply to the guy you answered.

Happy new years, fag

>>5714292
You're so fucking stupid. Do you even look at any stats? Do you even know how many wallets are out there?

There has been a shitton of media coverage but that does not mean a lot of people are putting money or significant money in.

>>5714172
This.

Which is very much enforced on how crypto is viewed and traded.
Disregarding daytrading and botting; this is mostly about picking the crypto with the right technology and the implementation into "the real world".

Just so happens it's stupidly easy to make money because everyone wants to bet on these projects. Being it mid or long term.

There are still tons and tons of people not getting into crypto. It's currently only mid/upper class and the elite in the western world/Asia who's in.

Whole of Africa is just starting to get ONLINE. At which point we won't be worrying about pajeets but roodypoos.

We have plenty time yet.

>>5714292
Thanks anon, Only mid 2016 but in crypto days that’s literally years.
The absolute swarm of dumb money flooding in since December is terrifying.

>>5712795
im guessing what youre asking is do i have enough time to turn my 50k portfolio into a million? the answer is no, you have time to turn it into 2 my nigga

>>5714374
Do you know an actual number or are you just speculating on things you've heard?

>>5714181
Yes, but the problem are the investors. Just look at any biz thread. People measure their portfolio in dollars and they all plan to "cash out" right back to shit fiat at some point

>>5714335
I would say I'm the smart one and you are delusional. I would love to be wrong though. I'm a libertarian who actually wants crypto to take over

>>5714402
Eh, some of us live in the real world. When I can pay a real estate developer in crypto, I will. Until then, I'm still a slave to the good ol' USD.

>>5714360
>Whole of Africa is just starting to get ONLINE. At which point we won't be worrying about pajeets but roodypoos.
What a terrifying thought.

>>5714466
Buy real estate in Dubai, and you can :)

I wanna be rich so bad. I don't believe many people grew up as poor as me

>>5714360

And I'm not even factoring in the possibility of a true decentralized economy system becoming a reality.

BTC has, quite literally, proven that we can bypass the centralized system by just agreeing it in unison. And that amount of supporters grow daily and is no where near saturation point. Even if ((( normies ))) back out with their investment they still will support the system in its existence and potential.

Sure, any new economy system will simply form a new elite and low/mid/high class in terms of involvement. At which point we WILL be "smart money" and "early adopters".

Just don't invest your shit in altcoins that dont have any potential unless you do daytrading and can navigate the meme graphs.

>>5712795
Buy DigiByte, be futureproof

>>5714453
You're the type of person who is unable to think for themselves and just follows whoever you think has the most authority. You don't use any evidence or logic in your statements with only half-formed conjecture.

Your ignorance and refusal to challenge your viewpoints is why you will always stay poor.

>>5714374
so after a year and a half you still cant spot market cycles? fucking hell

>>5714486
> BTC has, quite literally, proven that we can bypass the centralized system by just agreeing it in unison.
Careful there bud. This would make sense if people were moving their money to BTC planning to keep it there, not hoping to eventually convert it to Fiat.

I am less afraid of "bubble" and more afraid of the EU fucking us all over.

>>5714518
What? Why do you say that? I am the exact opposite of that and don't give a shit about any so called "authority"

Tell me how I am ignorant?

>>5712795
The dotcom bubble was worth 5(9.5 trillion after inflation) trillion, when anything with dot com in the end would get insane evaluation
Now just answer one thing
With all the inflation and the devaluation of money
How is 600 billion be considered a bubble?
When the dotcom bubble consisted didnt have the whole world investing
Plus yeah you have coinbase in USA, but there is no such user friendly app in other countries
Wait for Bitcoin etfs, where you can buy in a single click. That's when we can start to think that the bubble is about to pop

>>5714735
Uhh... Coinbase is usable in all EU countries and some Asian ones.
Then you have stamp and kraken too

>>5714518
And just lol at you thinking I'm poor

what do ya'll use to actively track the current price of BTC?

btc/usdt on binance?

>>5712795
this question is always going to be answered based on when the person answering got into crypto

the mega moons will have some time still yet i think, it could be another year it could be two..right now the "normie" money is generally based around buying whatever is on coinbase thinking it will give you the same returns as someone who bought btc 4 years ago

techy sort of people and neets, especially people from like twitch communities and that sort of thing are on the next step and are looking at all the altcoins and seeing the gains there, mega normies arent at that stage just yet.. when youre seeing facebook posts from idiots talking about shit like wabi is when its time to worry

if youre in crypto and taking it mega serious and learning about the actual tech then it will be obvious when its time to start being smart and making sure youre moving holdings towards proper projects that will see real use within the next few years that actually gives them value

>>5713810
My dad asked me this today

Anytime now.

Look at the cycle. It took BTC 1 year to go 10x. Shitcoins are going 10x in 1 month. Blue chips have burned all their fuel. Once shitcoins burn their fuel this market will collapse.

inb4 this is Dotcom 2.0

No it's not. With Dotcom you got stock. With crypto you get a worthless token.

>>5714780
Well shit time to exit all crypto markets.

>>5714735
>Wait for Bitcoin etfs
they already exist. And they were one of the most popular investments by individual investors in europe this year.

>>5714390
Ayyy

>>5714868
My meth-addled co-worker owns some goddamned shitcoin ETF, and he literally smokes cellophane for kicks. The end is nigh.

>>5712931
>A bubble is when the majority stakeholders don't know there's a bubble

Thats retarded and false

> We are all at a wonderful ball where the champagne sparkles in every glass and soft laughter falls upon the summer air. We know, by the rules, that at some moment the Black Horsemen will come shattering through the great terrace doors, wreaking vengeance and scattering the survivors. Those who leave early are saved, but the ball is so splendid no one wants to leave while there is still time, so that everyone keeps asking “What time is it? What time is it?” but none of the clocks have any hands.

>>5712795
>"Let's talk some real shit boys"
>OP's pic is a blockfolio screencap
>"bubble"
please kys nocoiner

>>5714172
>2018-??? is when real investors start taking blockchain tech seriously. Real projects actually start to grow and shape the financial world.

Assuming real projects occur. That's the problem. Vaporware.

only 8k holding link fun icx and planning to buy wanchain at a reasonable price. will i make it over 200k before the bubble pops?

>>5714934
Serious question: I'd like to know of one working blockchain solution that's actually being used to do... anything.

>>5712931
A Bubble is when the market becomes a pure Ponzi scheme. Only reason people are buying is they think someone else will buy it for more later

>>5714810

I agree with you 100%

This whole shitshow is gonna implode so hard one day. I'm betting we can reach $2trillion mkt cap before that tho. No one knows but i'm not selling until then, i'll be happy to lose the $35k i put in.

Also all the dotcom bubble comparisons on biz make me wanna puke. they have nothing to do with each other what so ever. just because the dotcom bubble was $X trillion it does not prove or disprove anything in regards to crypto.

>>5714907
That reference though.

>>5712795
If Bitcoin will have this high transaction fees then the bubble will pop at around 60k and every other crypto will be ass raped not only Bitcoin.

If somehow reducing the transaction fees of the Bitcoin Network will be possible in 1-2 years then it will definitely touch 400k (even if it's only touch it for a week) but if it's growing like crazy fast from 100k to 400k it will crash to almost nothing if it would increase it's price relatively slowly from 100k then I would say we all save and this will never pop and it can become a good alternative to the centralized forex stocks (they have a 50T market Cap!) but I would say that the chances that this scenario happens and bitcoin will never pop is not pretty good around 20-30%....

>>5714207
>How can it be a bubble when less than 1% of the human population has invested in it?

Bubble is when asset price exceeds valuation, generally caused by financially illiterate people entering the market, like crypto.

Total percentage of world population doesn't matter. What matters is what percentage of people are still willing to invest and can those people enter the market faster than people taking profits.

>>5714907
>> We are all at a wonderful ball where the champagne sparkles in every glass and soft laughter falls upon the summer air. We know, by the rules, that at some moment the Black Horsemen will come shattering through the great terrace doors, wreaking vengeance and scattering the survivors. Those who leave early are saved, but the ball is so splendid no one wants to leave while there is still time, so that everyone keeps asking “What time is it? What time is it?” but none of the clocks have any hands.

That's the most beautiful story I have ever read, anon. Thank YOu.

>>5714810
>With crypto you get a worthless token.
wut? why would you invest in a cryptocurrency whose token does nothing?

https://discord.gg/c7VG3Vf
not gonna pop

How stupid can they get.

Literally going to pop in any in the next day or so.

>>5714955
there's actually quite a few thare are being used in the "real world" even if their adoptions are low, whether it's the obvious currency coins such as bitcoin, litecoin, monero or stuff like wabicoin and qauntstamp

>>5715105
Compare the images then try to tell me it's not a bubble.

>>5712795
kek this portfolio looks like you jumped on everything shilled here for last 3 weeks

>>5715105
I agree the problem is your'e going to get 200-250% from bitcoin while you can get that from actual shitcoins in 2 days and have been able to for weeks.

>>5714907
None of the clocks have any hands?

>>5715084
>wut? why would you invest in a cryptocurrency whose token does nothing?

Exactly. Normies and even many people on /biz/ are buying crypto thinking it's like stock. It's not. crypto has no voting rights, no claim on future profit. Once people realize that, the market will collapse. That's why I find it sad when people think there is a "paradigm change" here. Crypto is just Kickstarter 2.0.

>>5715132
I laugh everytime

>>5715116
No one uses litecoin or bitcoin to buy anything in real life. Only to transfer across exchanges. Use your brain. It's a bubble.

>>5715143
Nevermind I got it now, english not first language kek

>>5713426
This

>>5715150
So you have valid points to argue against it. KEK.

>>5715159
>No one uses litecoin or bitcoin to buy anything in real life.
This is just objectively untrue, people do, they're stupid but they do it.

Of course it's a fucking bubble it was as fucking bubble when bitcoin was worth 10 dollars.

>>5713426
Well said.

>>5715132
Every dip in 2017 was accompanied by the meme chart, and every time it's wrong. The truth is you never know whether it will pop or keep mooning, so any time we hit an ATH take some chips off the table. Once you get your initial investment back, ride the wave until it breaks

> when BTC crashes will it inevitably drag all altcoins down with it? Or can we maintain a $XXXb-$Xtrillion market cap if BTC slowly dies?

> when the bubble pops and all the normies want out at the same time will exchanges be able to handle it? Everyone wants to sell and cash out fiat from Kraken/Coinbase/whatever are these websites equipped to handle it or will they implode too making you lose your money as well even tho you pulled out at a decent time?

> When will we see the first major adopted coin actually fill a purpose in the real world? Like being used actively for whatever purpose it has and which coin will it be? If we can see mainstream adoption and revenues actually somehow justifying the value of a coin/token fundamentally before the bubble pops, i believe the bubble can grow much larger.

I feel like the crypto space BADLY needs a few coins that is being actively used and that has a fundamental value

>>5715143
People can't tell how late it is

>>5715105
>>5715132
The joke is, with "return to the mean" I'd still be up like 10x.

>>5714735
>"The US of A are leading the crypto world, look at Coinbase lol AMERICA STRONK!!1!"
Amazing how burgers are unaware of what happens in the rest of the world and how they think in such a US-centric way... Even the arrogance of my french universalist education can't match this level of autism

>>5715184
Umm no. Actual e-commerce use has been declining for the last two years. Research it.

>>5715179
Is that a question? im not sure which angle you are larping

>>5715245
never said it wasn't declining of course it is a volatility increases and more and more technological arise, don't pretend it isn't being used though which is what my point was.

>>5714995
it's valid comparison

no earnings but it's ok because of "growth"
fundamental analysis (P/E and all that boring stuff) didn't matter for dot com. fundamental analysis here is literally read a whitepaper and speculate with a crystal ball.

>>5715146
>Crypto is just Kickstarter 2.0.
Then we tf are we buying these shitcoins if we're not even getting a T-shirt once the funding goals are met?

>>5715213
>when the bubble pops and all the normies want out at the same time will exchanges be able to handle it?
So what you're saying is that if they want to panic sell in a crash they won't be able to do it. At 7 transactions per second even if everyone wants to leave it will take forever. It can't pop.

> "smart money"
> muh normies
> muh "public"
> muh its not bubble yet guys!

Fucking KEK, you guys are the fucking dumb money. 99% of you have no idea what blockchain is, have no rational reasons for investing in any project other than "lol this is gunna moon", you LARP as a day trader but you're really like every other dumb moron who got in 2016 or later

the smart money was bitcoin when it was cents and single digit dollars, you retards got in at 1k or 2k or 3k or even 10k and think you're investment geniuses because you sat on it and it went up

I dont say this shit to make you feel bad, i say it make you scared - you are being delusional. Plan to get out, because "oh ill get out at the perfect time - im different to anyone else" is the oldest fucking story in the book of suicidal tears and broken lives

>>5715333
> i say it make you scared - you are being delusional. Plan to get out, because "oh ill get out at the perfect time - im different to anyone else" is the oldest fucking story in the book of suicidal tears and broken lives
couldn't agree more

>>5715264
The value (utility) of btc and ltc is in their usage as money. Their usage is so small it's less than 1% of people who buy/hold it (so essentially zero).

Get REKT!

It's a BUBBLE!

>>5715272
Yea there are tons of similarities in the jargon of crypto and the dotcom bubble and the way we speculate in these companies.

But drawing comparisons with the total market cap of the two bubbles means nothing. They have nothing to do with one another

>>5715333
Bitcoin is about to pop. Everyone knows it.

Only the real delusional are left it BTC.

The problem is everyone else thinks crypto's marketcap and the alts will hold up when BTC decides to tank (any day now).

>>5715219
Yeah, didn't remember at first they are called "hands"

>>5714157
Good point anon, when do you think it's gonna pop?

>>5715351
You're so stupid it's unbelieveable. I have always said it is in a bubble read my posts. The value of bitcoin is ironically not in its use as money but as a trading pair and indicator of value.

Whether you like it or not people are continuing to use these rubbish cryptocurrencies as real world transfer of values, this is not speculation this is fact. Anyone who is investing in bitcoin expecting to use it as a currency is obviously an idiot.

>>5715308
Haha that is true. But what i'm worried about is how exposed the exchanges where you can transfer back to fiat are. How is their liquidity? If all coins drastically drop in price how does that affect them? Chances of them freezing withdrawals during a crash seems likely and then you're fucked even if you sold at a good time in the beginning of the pop.

Like how people who used Bear Stearns for banking/trading purposes lost their money in 2008 cus Bear Stearns ran out of cash investing in the shitty mortgages that crashed.

>>5715419
Great rebuttal!

Your thoughts on when btc will pop and if it will bring down the alts with them?

I will buy all your bags when the bubble bursts.
Crypto is here to stay.

>>5715475

Decentralized system being controlled by (( centralized )) goxxing.

>>5715213

I like you anon

> Crash occurs
> Supply of shitcoins increases as people start selling the cold storage shitcoins
> Demand for shitcoins drops as people don't want to buy them anymore.
> Quality of shitcoins increases. Price of shitcoin/BTC decreases toward 0.

>Demand of BTC increases from people wanting to sell shitcoins
>Demand of BTC decreases from people wanting to sell BTC for USD.
> Supply of BTC increases from people selling all their cold storage.
> Assumption: that the supply increase and demand increase will be massive so price of BTC will toward $0.

> There is no federal reserve system for exchanges to acquire BTC. Or methods for exchanges to purchase BTC from each other.
> People will transfer BTC from crypto exchange to fiat exchange
> Transaction times will increase. Fees will increase.
> Crypto exchanges shutdown as they lack the BTC to exchange for shitcoins. No Liquidity.
> Fiat and Crypto exchanges might shutdown too from traffic volume.

> Alts, BTC, all near 0
> Millions of NEETs and chinks are left holding worthless BTC, stuck in the mempool.
>END

>Everyone wants to sell and cash out fiat from Kraken/Coinbase/whatever are these websites equipped to handle it or will they implode too making you lose your money as well even tho you pulled out at a decent time?

If you sell on a FDIC insured exchange like coinbase, in other words you have cash in your USD wallet, then you will be insured up to 250k, thanks to Uncle Sam. But yes their site might shutdown and you might not be able to make the trade, Hopefully your stop loss goes through.

>When will we see the first major adopted coin actually fill a purpose in the real world?

Never because they aren't user friend.

> Send to wrong address. Lose all funds
> Lose wallet key. Lose all funds.

Normies aren't going to put up with this shit. They want idiot-proof.

>>5715501
>Your thoughts on when btc will pop and if it will bring down the alts with them?
No idea it feels like pure gambling at this point. I used to think I had a read on this market during october/november but december has been such a ride that I genuinely have no idea. I don't think 20k (or whatever the fuck it was on the korean exchanges) is the highest it will ever go though.

>>5715281
>Then we tf are we buying these shitcoins if we're not even getting a T-shirt once the funding goals are met?

You are buying

1) The opportunity to donate money to a project of your choice. Think of it like a non tax deductible donation

2) The opportunity to play greater fool theory and hope you can sell the worthless token to someone else that think it's worth more than you.

>>5715547
>gambling

I have also described it as such. And In doing so it begs the question, could crypto be sustained a good while longer purely on the speculators willing to gamble. Nor miss buying ltc on Coinbase don’t factor in at all but the guys who lose money on alts where do they go. Buy back in? Or never return. I sure hope we can get just a few more months of this

>>5715547
I think 20k was top. I'm expecting a market crash very soon. Next day or two. You only have to look at total marketcap - no new money has been flowing in [it hasn't broken 650 billion again] it's just swirling around in the alts.

After crash (and bounce back up) I expect an extended bear (slow growth) market where BCH eventually replaces BTC.

>>5715650
There's a reason Charlie Lee sold all his ltc at ATH. He's not stupid.

we won't get institutional money because there's no regulations but hedge funds are already in?
i bought some jibrel, they're trying to get more assets into the crypto system as well. we're not going to survive on retail investors alone unless we keep memeing

>>5715213
powerledger and the rfid projects will be the first and very soon, will be a massive boost to the space and for sure bring more bubble growth

>>5715650
>BCH eventually replaces BTC.


your post just gave me terminal cancer, i hope you can pay my hospice bills

>>5715512
>If you sell on a FDIC insured exchange like coinbase, in other words you have cash in your USD wallet, then you will be insured up to 250k, thanks to Uncle Sam
How does this work for foreigners (particularly those in America-lite [Canada])?

>>5715391
>everyone knows it
and that is why it wont pop

>>5714157

I kinda agree. But at the same time people were all over fucking bitcoin in 2012. Everyone knew about it back then.

Sure, it's gotten easier to buy in. But if you think that crypto is the future of money (or at least a future digital asset class), then I think we have ways to go.

Normie money will come and go, but I do think crypto is here to stay.

That being said, I do plan on cashing out a 1/4 - 1/2 of my stack when I reach a certain level just in case.

The derivatives market is sitting at 500 trillions right now, when will it burst?

The Dotcom bubble was totally different I can't believe you dare to compare it with crypto.

>>5715681
lol everything is a bubble guys, the global economy will collapse and we'll have to resort to using gold as currency, Mauldin Economics figured it out. Better pack it up boys.

>>5712795
Not soon.

Consider this; We don't even had one successful big crypto product yet.

We're still waiting on that big Killer app. Eth came out 2 years ago, and only now did we have something as sophisticated as cryptokitties.

And that still jammed the network so there's still work to do. We're building this as we go.

I don't think this is a bubble yet. We don't even know what these things we're building will actually end up being worth.

For instance SiaCoin is $1Bn USD.

USD is always inflating while SiaCoin is constant (I think). If SiaCoin overtakes markets such as Google Cloud storage, I can see it easily hitting the 10Bn point.. and STILL increasing slowly simply due to the dollar inflating.


That's the thing, the more these federal reserve cucks print money and do quantitative easing.. The richer we get because the shittier the US dollar gets.

>>5715146
Crypto might be Kickstarter 2.0, but blockchain is the real deal.

>>5715637
>could crypto be sustained a good while longer purely on the speculators willing to gamble
At times I think no but then I see pure garbage like Verge or no product like Cardano and Req continue to moon and I think if these kinda products can have people chasing green then what the fuck is gona happen when the few good looking actual products (I see Raiblocks is an example of this which seems to be an absolutely amazing product if it works and we have seen that growth on literal who exchanges).

>>5715650
>You only have to look at total marketcap - no new money has been flowing in [it hasn't broken 650 billion again] it's just swirling around in the alts.

I think this is completely correct and it's why we have seen a kinda each alt coin has its moon day.

>I expect an extended bear (slow growth) market where BCH eventually replaces BTC.

I don't see this market entering a bear one on the whole anytime soon especially if/when more and more alt coins become purchaseable directly through fiat.

I don't really know why you think BCH will replace BTC, it is still garbage it's just slightly less garbage if you're looking at a currency coin there is no way you should buy bitcoin or bitcoin cash. If/when the btc/alt pairing valuation is destabalised I don't see any indication to suggest it would be replaced with BCH.

>>5715105
The world economy is a bubble get out now.

>>5715731
look up asset bubbles. that's what you get with quantitative easing.

>>5712795
Everyone here's goal in 2018 should be to convince more boomer's to buy Crypto.

>>5715704
>How does this work for foreigners (particularly those in America-lite [Canada])?
contact your local attorney.

thats why you will buy LINK.

once the bubble pops, only a handful of coins will remain, LINK will be one of them.

>>5715681
Pretty amazed there was nothing about jews printing their own $$ under the name of Federal Reserve System. Dolar itself is an infinite bubble, but aslong everyone uses it, it won't pop.

>>5715784
Not necessarily a bear market but a slower (back to normal) market. Kind of what we saw at the start of 2017.

I think we need a single currency coin. What's the point of having 50 different alts as currency coins. I think BCH has the best chance.

Remembering all of crypto stemmed from the idea of decentralizing money.

>>5715765
>Sure everything develop with blockchain so far has been trash or only useful for criminals but but but... I'm sure if we just invest more money into vaporware then we'll find a use for it.

Serious lack of vision in this thread so I'll lay it out straight using my crystal ball. Bitcoin to 100k USD this year. Then instant drop to 10k USD. (There's your bubble.) At this point Bitcoin gets dethroned by XRB. XRB to reach $1000 next year. Fast, scalable, feeless, finally a use case for crypto. Bitcoin is still chugging along because the crypto dream will never die. Ethereum is going stronger as some cyber-autist builds a decentralised Internet on the ether virtual machine. Come 2020 we are browsing /biz/ on the blockchain. Those with an iron grip have ridden down to the depths of hell only to shoot off at lightspeed to the very edge of space, the land of infinite gains. Don't get left behind /biz/, this is more than a quick buck. This is the end of fiat currency.

>>5715924
>I think we need a single currency coin. What's the point of having 50 different alts as currency coins.
Fundamentally I agree (and each one is essentially competing to be this) although I can understand why someone might be willing to sacrifice transfer time for complete privacy so i'd say that a few can exist. I have no idea why you think that coin will be BCH that seems insane to me.

>Remembering all of crypto stemmed from the idea of decentralizing money.
I'm not just into crypto for ideological reasons I don't really care how "true" something is to satoshis vision all I care about is its execution. I do realise that centralisation is a dealbreaker for some people though.

>>5715959
decoupling - flippening will save the day.
need more crypto-fiat pairs basically, so we can cash out even if btc wets the bed.

>>5715959
And therefore the end of street-shitting mania in India. Totally agree with XRB, even though I don't own any.

>>5715906
>Pretty amazed there was nothing about jews printing their own $$ under the name of Federal Reserve System

go back to /pol/ we don't tolerate financially illiterate people on /biz/

Without inflation, with a deflationary currency like BTC, everyone HODLs, which causes a massive liquidity crisis in the market. So while there are downsides to inflation and printing money out of thin air they outweigh the drawbacks of a deflationary currency like BTC.

the fact that bitcoin is in a huge bubble doesn't mean it'll take the whole market with it if it pops - stuff like ethereum can genuinely change the world, and even if it takes a huge hit if bitcoin dies nerds like vitalik would still work on (and improve) the technology.

..so if you're scared from the entire market popping invest only in coins with a passionate team that's in it for the long haul that has a good use case, don't go in too deep, cover your initial investment when you can and fucking stop worrying if it pops. you won't be able to time it anyway. no one can.

>>5716029
>go back to /pol/ we don't tolerate financially illiterate people on /biz/
haha good joke, the amount of people who think you can short something without borrowing it first is incredible.

>>5715999
The network effect is real. It's been holding up BTC for years.

So it's going to be easier for people to transition to BCH than to any other. BCH "The Real Bitcoin" narrative is already in play.

You only have browse reddit.com/r/btc to see a hell of a lot of key early adopters and developers and actually behind BCH.

>>5712795
thanks to FairX the bubble won't crash until 2019

thebiggest constraint was Bitcoin being the On/Off ramp

>>5714157
I disagree. I know a ton of normies--friends from college, coworkers, people I met in clubs/groups, family--and none of them know shit about crypto. I keep up with them on FB too. my pc-building HS friends, supposedly financially-savvy family members, even other comp-sci majors--none of them own BTC as far as I know

>>5716130
>You only have browse reddit.com/r/btc to see a hell of a lot of key early adopters and developers and actually behind BCH.
I know there are a lot of people forming a cult around BCH just as people have formed a cult around BTC. The majority are still BTC even if the trend for BTC over the past 6 months has obviously been a negative one.

It is truly bizarre to me that people want to replace one shitcurrency with another shitcurrency which is marginally less shit but still shitter than other stuff that already exists. As far as I'm concerned the only reason BCH exists is because of pure greed from the likes of toxic individuals such as ver and wright.

>>5716029
New coins are mined bro. If it weren't a bubble it would grow organically and solve the volatility problem.

>>5716181
>none of them own BTC as far as I know
this is why FairX will cause the bubble to over inflate

>>5716181

I goto college right now and EVERYONE is talking about BTC. Quite a few have invested. Some early adopters.

Really what matters is how many chinks and gooks have invested because they are driving the price up.

>>5716202
But you have no idea what you are talking about. Tell me one other that is truly better than btc/bch? Eth is the only one that comes even close

>>5716202
Sorry. This is where I have to disagree. It's not a cult, it's more like the red pill of bitcoin.

Ver ain't bad. You've just been brainwashed. BTC has been intentionally destroyed (arguably by the banks) the last few years and he's trying to save it. Sure he's going to make a hell of a lot of money. But when you're already a billionaire how much money do you really need? He's doing it because he believes in Satoshi's vision.

Look at how Ripple may become the currency coin. If you put on your tin foil hat, it's because the banks have intentionally destroyed BTC and are now providing a solution they have more control over...

>>5716340
And this, lol at calling Ver evil.
He has been promoting the exact same thing since the beginning. He hs done a lot for crypto

>>5716202
BCH may become the people's coin. In time.

>>5716384
Those who think Ver is "evil" have been straight up brain washed and know nothing about him. lol

>>5716340
If you think governments and banks would sit back as a decentralized currency took over. You'd be delusional. They're literally "dividing (BTC/BCH) and conquering it (XRP)"

>>5716339
>etherum token
>currency coin
you wut mate. I'm not talking about in terms of adoption but in terms of transaction.

>>5716340
Ver ain't bad. You've just been brainwashed. BTC has been intentionally destroyed (arguably by the banks) the last few years and he's trying to save it. Sure he's going to make a hell of a lot of money. But when you're already a billionaire how much money do you really need? He's doing it because he believes in Satoshi's vision.
I think the irony in this response is incredible when I have absolutely no doubt that just like banks and big dick twats have been in bitcoin for a long time they have also accumilated a signficant stack of BCH. If we are to put our tinfoil hats on I would not be surprised for one moment if the price supression after the 2nd of August or whatever it was for BCH was purely the result of goldman sachs et al scooping it up. When I last checked Ver et al still haven't even unloaded all of their bitcoin, if they are so dedicated to bettering mankind then why are they hedging their bets?

The greatest irony about bitcoin (cryptocurrency) is that a lot of people don't even seem to realise is that it's just as unequal in its distribution as the real world is, at best you're replacing one world order with another one (one which is almost exactly the same as before). I guess you could say fundamentally as much as I hate the bankers I have little love for Satoshi's vision.

>>5716384
I never called Ver "evil" (what a strange word to describe a person with) but he is greedy as fuck even if you support the guy that much is surely self evident.

>>5714157
>85 xrp
Wow look, poorfags. We haven't really seen institutional money yet.

>>5712795
I'm not putting my life saving into crypto. the most I'm ever going to put in is 1000$, if I lose it it won't ruin me but I have a chance to make a little bit of money.

The real shit is going to happen when the crash DOES happen and all utilities related to cryptos crash and people can't get their money out. I just hope I can cash out before then and it doesn't happen until at least mid 2019.

Pic related: the effect the dotcom bubble had on the nasdaq during the later 90s and early 2000s, probably similar to what we're seeing right now.

>>5716509
umm did you just argue against yourself?

>>5716340
>red pill

mentions misogynistic community of the blind leading the blind, men that don't know how to talk to women teaching other men that don't know women.

>>5716509
>If you think governments and banks would sit back as a decentralized currency took over.

Anon, 10-15 years ago I believed in every conspiracy theory I heard. Today I only believe in a few. Govt. and Central Banks don't give a shit about BTC because their own internal reports will tell them that BTC is a fraud. Crypto is not user friendly and the only reason It's exploded is because of all these centralized exchanges that allow easy access to fund not stored on the blockchain, basically banking on top of crypto assets.

>>5714172
Ripple is part of competition with visa now.

>>5716520
No doubt there was serious accumulation of BCH over the last 6 months.

But of course, there is always going to be a world order. It's important for human survival otherwise they'd be mayhem or communism lol.

>>5716431
Yeah, some core supporters are suffering from serious stockholm syndrome

>>5716520
Sure, he might be greedy but who isnt in crypto. At least he doesnt intentionally cripple bitcoin for his own personal gain

>>5716520
>he greatest irony about bitcoin (cryptocurrency) is that a lot of people don't even seem to realise is that it's just as unequal in its distribution as the real world is, at best you're replacing one world order with another one (one which is almost exactly the same as before). I guess you could say fundamentally as much as I hate the bankers I have little love for Satoshi's vision.

Quoted for truth.

If BTC was about equality then all the whales would donate their currencies to everyone else so everyone could have an equal number of bitcoin. Instead people have to BUY bitcoins with dollars. It's no different from a cult that requires membership dues. The people who got bitcoins are a lower price benefit when new members buy them at a higher price, pyramid scheme. A mainstream bitcoin would give all the power to early btc adopters.

>>5713578
Inflation adjusted ?

>>5716615
Dude, he ain't even greedy. Have you seen the shitty house he lives in and the crappy clothes he wears??

If he were greedy he would have started ballin' out already.

>>5716610
>But of course, there is always going to be a world order.
That's kind of my point so why do you care about something like satoshi's vision

>>5716615
>At least he doesnt intentionally cripple bitcoin for his own personal gain
Is this meant to be sarcastic?

>>5716520
Yo! You are a pretty smart dude.

But you seem to be caught up in some bullshit.

I genuinely suggest you take some serious time to research Roger Ver and the politics behind cryptocurreny right now.

There is literally a matrix in play.

But if you look close enough you can see it.

>>5714907
you just changed my entire perspective of cashing out gains. thank you.

>>5713578
>dotcom was 5 trillion when it popped
>we are only at 600 billion
>no need to worry yet

Dotcom bubble had regulation for IPOs. So institutional investors flocked in trying to find the winners. Crypto is unregulated.

>>5715272
>fundamental analysis here is literally read a whitepaper and speculate with a crystal ball.

And IPOs were ownership stake. Crypto is a worthless token. Only financially illiterate chumps are dumb enough to purchase coins. Institutional money will never enter and this bubble will pop a lot faster since it's support by dumb money.

>>5716610
>>5716715
why do you keep replying as if you're two different people when we can all see you id?

>>5716655
Decentralization and Satoshi's vision is still 10x better than what we have now.

The idea is sound, there's a reason it's made it this far.

>>5716736
I am ao7/rbqP and u/RZZRmV

My IP refreshed.

>>5716798
Others ain't me lol

>>5715898
i'm all for link, but not the right place for this, my guy

>>5712795
This is not a bubble, this is a flippening. Alts are going to drain BTC until its a lifeless husk.

This is a transfer of wealth, not a bubble. Core was the bubble.

>>5715713

This is the question I keep asking myself. Why is crypto taking off now, even though it didn't take off in Dec 2013 when it was Front-page news also.

I think the key is ICOs. Back then, you couldn't really do anything with your bitcoin except just sell it back to the market for USD. This time around you can go shopping for ICOs. There were 82 ICOs last month, the number has been rising steadily and monotonically every single month. If there are less than ~80 ICOs this month then alarm bells should be ringing and it's time to get out.

>>5714989
Congratulations! You just described every non-consumer market.

>>5714466
I deal in real estate in upstate ny counties. And was reflecting weeks ago on selling or trading for crypto.....thoughts?

Yall nigas just watched this insane growth in 2017 unfold, then watched retards flood in all nov and dec, and u still aint sellin? Really? Yall dumbasses really just watch coinmarketcap list +10-50% gains for every shitcoin, no matter how trash or good the token is, and yall still aint selling?? *crouches down and gets closer to u* yall for real rn?

>>5715105
BTC Market is completely manipulated by Market Makers with large sums of BTC.

There should of already be a massive correction, but every time it's about to happen there's suddenly 1000 BTC buying wall set on certain supports which make absolutely no sense.

I know you probably don't believe there are 'BTC Market Makers', but you can observe the situation on Bitfinex.

I got just'd many times being paranoid about where BTC is heading, but just accept the fact that nobody knows shit, unless you have 1000BTC+ and can control the market.

>>5714907
Too good for /biz/

>>5715681
Tesla literally loses money every month but their fucking stock goes up every day.

>>5717731
nigga knows whats popping. whales gonna be eatin pork chops real soon.

>>5713668
>simultaneously overvalued and undervalued
In other words, a correct fucking price?

>>5717952
>>5717952
>There should of already be a massive correction, but every time it's about to happen there's suddenly 1000 BTC buying wall set on certain supports which make absolutely no sense.

Cost of business. Money Makers are killing it with alt coins right now and can use those gains to subsidize BTC.

They need BTC high so fiat keep pouring into the market. After BTC crashes, it'll be impossible to realize profit.

>>5718621
notice I said cryptocurrency

nobody knows shit, everybody talks shit

What if there was no bubble? What if cryptocurrency is the financial revolution that frees the people of the shackles of centralized monetary policy? Wouldn’t it make sense to spread this knowledge to every common man and woman, so that they know where the power truly lies- in the masses. This is where we fight for every regulation and identify every fake blockchain that tries to bring down this tool that will lead to global and economic prosperity. With cryptocurrency we can finally redistribute the wealth and restore balance.

That’s just my take on it.

>>5719902
*against every regulation.

>>5719902
>whales pumping and dumping stocks
>normies investing based on the latest rumor on reddit
>ICO worthless token with obligation to future revenue
>Company with no product seeing 2x gains

I understand the people who see the bubble and dangers in the market but people like you who think this is legit really worry me.

>*against every regulation.

Becareful what you wish for anon. Without regulation you have no clue what you are even buying a token in. Could be and probably is an exit scam. Could be a failed project

>>5720185
Tell me what you’d rather have anon, a competitive private market for money, or an arbitrary government monopoly amounting to a license to steal for the ruling class? I agree eventually regulation needs to happen, but we got a better shot at leveling the playing field in the crypto markets.

>>5712795
question is...how will some of these shitcoins collapse. some dont have institutional money, to gum up the works.
Alot of them are 4 to 5 guys in a building or spread across the planet that dont need to VC money to stay afloat. VC money is very fickle. So they dont have to worry about rent they dont have to worry about exit strategies,vesting,stock options,board holders etc
Not saying there wont be crash, but while alot of coins will die due to developers having no vision and being lazy. Maybe 200 to 400 will survive and continue on, their utility will be that they can be traded for daytraders.

>>5714157
ok, your shill got me, where i buy?

>>5717211
The normies are not here yet.

> There's a $350 deposit limit per week on coinbase.
> Bittrex and plenty of other exchanges have temporarily closed registrations.
> Exchanges take weeks to confirm accounts

At most it's college students who threw 50 bucks into BTC to see where it would go. The money's going to keep flowing for at least another few months.

>>5714157
The story about the BTC pizza has been floating around since 2014, like plenty of other rags-to-riches crypto story.
Everybody knows about Bitcoin, that doesn't mean everybody owns it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmourdoukoutas/2017/09/18/four-facts-about-bitcoin/#55347d505abf

80% of Americans have heard about crypto, of those only 14% have ever owned it.
So 10% of all americans ever bought crypto. That includes all the guys who bought 10 bucks, sold, etc...
By comparison over half of Americans own stocks.

And that's only for America. You can divide those numbers by half for Europe and East Asia.

Millions of company have promised to redeem dollars in the future for goods and services giving it a real value and stablility. Owning a dollar is not like owning a commidity, it's owning a debt backed by real goods and service, maturity transformed by a bank. Also all of you moaning about QE have no idea how it works, QE isn't printing money, it's buying long-term bonds with short-term bonds to lock the FED into lower rates. Money isn't a commidity since the medici times. The instrinsic value of a crypto coin is that you can use it and only it to update a global ledger. That is valuable, but not $600 billion valuable (even though the ledger itself maybe fantastic and blockchains have fantastic utility, that doesn't entails the tokens are worth that same value).

>>5721047
More and more companies are promising to redeem crypto for goods and services. This is only the beginning. Not only is it potentially more effective as a medium of exchange than the dollar, but the concept of competing private currencies could revolutionize monetary policy as we know it. The crypto markets are the purest form of free market there is today. Quantitative Easing was a blatant fleecing of the American people and is the exact reason why there is no need for a “Federal” Reserve. Let the free market decide who lives and who dies.

>>5714907
>mfw no one recognizes this quote