/biz/ - Business & Finance

thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvJRmdN9iyU

mods pls sticky :^))))))

sigh not a single bump

I'll reply, thanks anon.

Have a great 2018!

happy gains everyone

That's beautiful
I wish I had a image for it
Happy new year's biz thx for the memories

check out this thread from one year ago

>>5702011
god dammit it didnt paste

>>/biz/thread/S1700437

>>5702011
>nice maybe next year it will be 2000

i'm hoping everyone in biz gets some good gains so they can have an easier life.

YOU'VE MADE ME THE HAPPIEST GIRL ON THE PLANET OP

>>5702436

>>5701179
>Accumulate & Hold
>Just have patience, be calm, and enjoy the ride.
Words for /biz/ to live by. Let's not let ourselves forget them in the exciting times ahead. Looking forward to a comfy ride with you while watching all the excitement to come. See you in 2018.

>>5703173

>>5702025
Biz was and still is fudding BTC. Lmfao

>early adopter meme
You're a few years late pal, my fucking grandparents asked me about it.

>>5703524

if you say so

Sorry to break it but if you're starting now you're way late. You came in with the normies. You are the normy . Although if you lurk more and post less you can learn from us not-so-late fags and make it big even with small capital

>>5703768
even if someone has started TODAY with their very first purchase of bitcoin, they are still an early adopter and far ahead of the majority of people in society right now

>>5703768

biz told me this exact thing last year. didn't hold up very well

>>5703363

January better be good because this bear period on the main coins is really trying my patience.

>>5703768
>learning anything from pajeet dump imageboard
unlikely

>>5701179
Thank you OP. Happy new year to you aswell. All the best to you in the year and years to come.

>>5703524
they probably asked about bitcorn, few people are aware ether exists, let alone shitcoins.

>>5703846
everything is gonna be okay

>>5701179
this is a nice post. thank you nice post anon.

>>5703524
Yeah but you really think your grandparents know about shit like monero or request network or all the shitcoins we hold?

>>5703768
they did a pool and iirc only 1 out of 5 millennials would invest in crypto, that's very little considering that normies are historically attracted by insane returns that bubbles provide, the real normie invasion will start somewhere in mid-late in 2018 when btc will hit 50k and eth 10k.,

pls rember that wen u feel scare or frigten
never forget ttimes wen u feeled happy
wen day is dark alway rember happy day

>>5701179
Just made my day. Thank you OP. Happy new year to you as well.

>>5701179
I like the positivity!

>>5701179
Early adopters are just arriving. If you got in before 2018 you can technically call your self an innovator.

>>5704346
>>5704269

>>5702011
>>5702025
bought my mom 24 BTC early 2013. recently set up a $500 weekly deposit for her on coinbase since she lost her job and ran out of savings. she's jobless, broke, and doesn't even know what a bitcoin is lol

>>5704234
>Well the first days are the hardest days, don't you worry any more,
>'Cause when life looks like Easy Street, there is danger at your door.

Happ New Year faggots. Let's get this money.

I wish you all good luck. This has been an honor. ^_^

>>5704751
Go get that money

>>5701179
FUCK THAT GAY SHIT
https://discord.gg/shKH5bY
NEW PUMP AND DUMP GROUP, AIMS TO PUMP A NEW COIN EVERYDAY 6PM EST ONCE 5000 PEOPLE JOIN!!!!

I just wish I had more money to dump into something. I'm at $100 total which I only have because I had ~$6 in BTC from last year. I'm never gonna make it.

>>5704817
why are you not banned yet

>>5701179
Im quite new. Currently holding a small amount of ltc, eth and xrp.

Have i chosen poorly, and is there any cheap currency i should invest in as soon as i get the cash for it?

>>5704597
Why dont you just give the BTC to her?

>>5704914

I didnt make this thread to shill coins

be smart with your portfolio, be diversified, be patient, buy dips, sell bull runs.

>>5704914
Lindy Rule for all non-blue chip coins.

PnDs end after ~3 days, so if you see threads for the same coin week after week, more than likely there's something there.

>>5704949
>>5704914
dont get frustrated if you sell too early or dont scoop the bottom tick of a dip perfectly

the more important thing to focus on is locking in profits.

>>5704949
Thanks, i asked since i saw you mention several different currencies but not a single one i've invested in.
Happy new years, this is our year!

>>5704959
Thanks, i'll just google all those words and learn something.

>>5704986
i think LTC, ETH, and XRP will all have a great year and I really mean this

>>5705027
Lindy Rule = things that have been around longer tend to last longer going forward. https://medium.com/incerto/an-expert-called-lindy-fdb30f146eaf

Blue chips = BTC/LTC/ETH/XRP. Comes from the stock market, where it referred to shares of the largest companies around (Coke, IBM, Apple, etc). That in turn stole the term from casinos.

PnD = pump and dump. The shitty coins nobody's heard of that are hyped on here.

>>5701179
Wholesome post

>>5705034
>>5705143

Cheers bretheren

What website do you use to keep track of fresh coins? And what website do you use to invest?

>>5705034
why ltc

I am naked

>>5705250

>>5705204
I use GDAX, Bittrex, and Binance. I have also in the past used Poloniex. Very rarely I will use a random smaller exchange to get something if it the only place available like XRB on BitGrail for example.

Many people recommend Blockfolio (phone app) for tracking your trades and watching prices move.

>>5705241
I dont want to debate coins here
>>5703374
surely there are some bullish LTC arguments in this thread you can read

I hope everyone here has a good new year and I hope all of your bags take you to the moon. We are all going to make it one day.

>>5704234
I love Rember-chan, she's so cute and pure.

I want to hug her

>>5704928
>mom's face when
? it's in a coinbase account that I set up for her. we're not cashing it all out, I instead set up coinbase to automatically sell $500-worth on a weekly basis and deposit it into her checking account

>>5705315
Thanks

>>5701179
It fills me with hope. I started one month ago and finally turned my $1000 into $2000 tonight. I've been discouraged because anons have 10x their investment in that same amount of time, but posts like this still bring me back to the reality that I doubled my money in a month with 0 physical work.

If I hit 10k by the end of Q1, I will write "I <3 you biz" across my hairy sweaty ass and post it for you all, because my coworker treats me like a moron for even investing in crypto. Like I'm a big dumb babby who is going to get ripped off. I will teach him.

>>5705751
dont rub your gains in his face
it will only make him salty and he will grow to resent you
best not to speak of them at all to him besides telling him you can help show him where to invest and such

>>5705802
Yeah, I wasn't really planning on it. I told him when I made my first $100 after 2 days so I already got a feel for the reaction. Nobody who isn't invested or planning to invest wants to hear about this shit.

But I will invite him to a party in my new house if I ever get that far.

>>5703828
bitcoin is already finished dude. it's over.

>>5705315
>I dont want to debate coins here
it's not a debate, i own a lot of litecoin but am thinking of selling it

>>5705898
if you say so

>>5703846
>>5705802
These pics are so good, I've been staring for like 10 minutes. In the future historians will look back and see that this was the only worthwhile art from our time period, because it at least tries to be beautiful and evoke emotion.

post more

>>5706011
you picture is very beautiful too anon

>>5701179
>we are still the early adopters

Implying that there is a future for crypto. alt coins are the most disgusting penny stocks. You are buying a token in a vaporware company, this isn't even Dotcom boom because at least there were some good dot com companies.

The big problem I see is that so many people are buying alts on btc exchanges. If the price of BTC collapses then you're all SOL trying to get your money out of the market since you can't sell to FIAT directly.

>>5704381
>Early adopters are just arriving. If you got in before 2018 you can technically call your self an innovator.

thinks bag holders are early adapters.

>>5704224
>they did a pool and iirc only 1 out of 5 millennials would invest in crypto,

crytpo is a poor man's stock market. You are getting a worthless token issues by a start-up. It's not even a share of equity (of future profits), has no voting rights, nor the full-disclosure of a IPO. For this reason, no sane person will invest in this scam.

BTC won't hit 50k, it'll probably collapse, soon once the whales stop pumping it up.

>>5706156
only 12 minutes into 2018 and youre already so bitter anon

cheer up

theres nothing wrong with putting some of your play money into crypto. I also trade stocks and visit robinhood general thread often. I do lament how /biz/ has changed in the past year though. There really used to be a crypto currency general thread and all the discussion was in one easy to find place. We cant go back to that anymore though

>>5706219
>theres nothing wrong with putting some of your play money into crypto.

IMO, when people were investing in the blue chips last month, that was true, because in the case of a crash, you could withdraw to FIAT directly and Coinbase and Gemini are both FDIC insured.

But now people are investing in the shittiest penny stock listed on crypto-crypto exchanges. If the crypto market collapses, then you're going to SOL because the network won't be able to handle all the people trying to send their funds back to a fiat exchange to cash out. By the time the funds get transferred, they might as well be 0.

As for investing in crypto, most of the people buying these companies have no clue have to do proper due diligence, nor do they care. It's all about buying whichever shitcoin hits media attention and moons. The fact that people don't even care that these coins are being pumped and dumped, it's totally shocking. People don't realize that all these shitcoins are vaporware and no one will have long-term faith in a market where they are the bag holders. This is shit is has no long-term future.

>>5706397
perhaps

perhaps

>>5705802
>>5706049
super comfy thread OP, thanks again

>>5704837
You have my respect. So many no-coiners have sat on the sidelines saying "I can't even afford one" and invest nothing as if they have no other choice. Meanwhile anons like you take the initiative to invest $6, only a fraction of a coin, and here today your investment is many times worth what it was then. You have already made it, anon. You have already made it.
Let's keep it going. We're still a long way till the great blue yonder. Let's relax and cruise on up there together. Happy New Year, 2018.

... as for more funds (if no job....) consider selling some of your unwanted items on craigslist or eBay.

>>5706425

and like I said, people aren't buying equity in a company, they are buying a token, a Pokemon card, from the company. If the company is actually successful, they can have an IPO and your cryptotoken will be worth absolutely nothing.

The company can release a new token whenever they want.

The only reason it was "safe" to invest in BTC/LTC was because they were real mediums of exchange, real currencies. But all these shitcoins are not currency but stock, equityless stock. Once people realize what they've actually bought, they'll be shocked. No long-term future.

>>5706397
Are people still thinking this is all a scam?
There is value in the block chain, just the fact the people use it for speculation only is enough for it to have value. Block chain isn't even about currency anymore, it's about shit like smart contracts.

>>5706595
That was quite moving but the $6 was just leftover change from when I was really into buying shitloads of RCs from the clearnet. I am broke and practically jobless now though.

>>5705204

Blockfolio is the best one for tracking, also allows you to do some nice LARPing when you're just curious about a coin

As exchanges, I'm using Binance and Poloniex

>>5706599
>smart contracts.
vaporware for suckers that can't do due diligence

>Block chain isn't even about currency anymore,

Exactly, people are buying digital tokens, pokemon cards, equity less stock in projects they like. It's worse than a kickstarter because with a kickstarter, they promise something in return for your money. Here your only gain is a continual increase in token price, and the founders can cash out and leave you with nothing.

>>5701179
Happy New Year, anon! I came home to spend it with you guys, when I could be anywhere in the world. Next year, I will. But this one is for you.

We're gonna make it!

>>5706596
ICOs definitely challenge a lot of unspoken assumptions and legacy protections people have kept around just because.

So yeah, you'll get scams like XVG You'll also get things like REQ where the owners use the tokens as their equity, selling off bits as they need capital, building a legitimate business. They have skin in the game, which can be a much more useful thing to you as an investor than, say, a bit of data in a database saying you own 1 share of GM.

>>5706397
>As for investing in crypto, most of the people buying these companies have no clue have to do proper due diligence, nor do they care
so, just like during dot-com bubble. i don't deny it's a bubble, but there is no telling when it happens, it might go for years or even decades, entire crypto market is so slow it could be bought up by bill gates entirely.
but one thing is certain, it will eventually recover after crash, so best thing to do is to not get greedy and secure your gains, not to permanently move it to other assets, but to be able to buy when blood runs on the streets.

>>5706777

theres money to be made trading crypto thats all there is to it
these same rules (pic related) that apply to your stock trading apply exactly the same to the crypto charts

and the extreme volatility is fun!

>>5706819
Happy New Year skychan

>>5706881
>but there is no telling when it happens
the pop
>is so slow
i meant that it's worth so low

>>5704801
Get all money lads

>>5706777
Dude I miss the days of 5% returns on the S&P too, but the world changes. Bitcoin survived Mt gox, 99 crashes, forks, 51% attacks, chinese bans.

It's here to stay

>>5706862
>ICOs definitely challenge a lot of unspoken assumptions and legacy protections people have kept around just because.

What? JUST BECAUSE? No real investors, not wannabe investors on reddit & /biz/, want to know things like the balance sheet of a firm, the business modal or plan, the background information on the executive team, and so on. This is necessary to make a good, well-informed decisions. Smart people don't just invest based on which company makes it to the top of a subreddit multiple times a week. Mania investing will work in the short-run, until people realize they are bag holders and then it'l crash. These legacy protections are necessarily to have a sustainable model. (and while there are issues with IPOs and too much govt regulation, ICOs have the exact opposite problem).

>REQ where the owners use the tokens as their equity, selling off bits as they need capital, building a legitimate business.

You are still not understanding. In a IPO, too get ownership in that firm. If they go bankrupt, you might get money back. If you own a lot, you might have decision making ability. If the company issues dividends, you will be willing to keep their stock long-term.

With ICOs, they can dump their coin and you will be left with a worthless digital key. Because they have no obligation to pay dividends, you have no inventive to hold the coin past the growth phase, so every rational investor will dump every coin once they peak to go into a new growth coin. It's a model that isn't long-term viable.

>>5701179
>we are still the early adopters
>The vast majority of people around you do not own one single satoshi.
>Remember that.
>Here's to more gains in 2018

Looking forward to taking some profits in the new year. I don't care if any of these coins or tokens ever get used to buy a product or access a service.. if I can buy them lower now and sell them higher later, that will be good enough for me.

>>5706881
>so, just like during dot-com bubble. i

Worse because 1) the internet was a revolutionary technology, 2) people got equity in good firms, like Amazon or eBay. 3) some of those firms survived the dot com crash.

>i don't deny it's a bubble, but there is no telling when it happens,

We're already at that point. the blue chips made massive gains last year and now they are struggling to stay alive, slowing decreasing each day, only pumping pumped up by whales. People are moving into alts to make to make the same gains in a few days as people made In months in the blue chips. These are huge red flags.

>So best thing to do is to not get greedy and secure your gains

which no one wants to do because they don't know when the bubble will pop so they will be as greedy as possible. Like I said, not that people are on crypto-crypto exchanges with no FDIC protection, they'll be fucked in a crash.

>>5706881
Smart money here, good advice

>>5707114
>With ICOs, they can dump their coin and you will be left with a worthless digital key

the thing that makes crypto (proper crypto) different from stocks is its *decentralized*

It doesnt matter that Charlie Lee sold all his litecoins, the system is decentralized. Control comes from mining power, not a CEO. Satoshi has been MIA for years now and bitcoin is still truckin

>>5707235
>the thing that makes crypto (proper crypto) different from stocks is its *decentralized*

I'm talking about the shitcoins people are shilling. Most, if not all of them, are just blockchain projects and people are treating the ICO, as an IPO.

LTC and BTC are different in that people actually want to use them for currency. With that said there are massive problems with that, which I don't want to get into right now. Charlie Lee selling all his coins should tell you everything you need to know.

>>5701179
Love comfy threads like this OP. I started a month ago with $2,000 and I've got $5,000 now. $100k EOY 2018 might be a tad unrealistic but I'm gonna hope for it anyway.

>>5707114
>These legacy protections are necessarily to have a sustainable model. (and while there are issues with IPOs and too much govt regulation, ICOs have the exact opposite problem).

Why is it *exactly* opposite? I mean, rhetorically we like symmetry. It's good, convenient, makes a snappy point. But have you actually listed out the pros and cons for ICO vs. IPO?

You should. And weigh each pro and con for a handful of shitcoins and legit ICOs (your picks).

>Ownership claims

The ownership for ICOs can be decentralized into the tokens. Then, just as owners can bail on a project, miners can fork it if the owners fuck up. Was Dogecoin a meme? The original scam ICO? What happened to it?

Happy New Year!

But anons, am I really cucked because I've only just now realized the value of crypto? I was pretty excited at the possibilities, but I'm a little concerned I might be wasting time. I was planning on investing $50 into ETH

At work me and one other guy talk Crypto , one bitch likes to lecture us about our " gambling" , one smartass coworker let us know how unrealistic it was that we'd really make money,

It reminds me of the Warren Buffet quote " Be Greedy when others are fearful and fearful when others are greedy "

>>5707158
>1) the internet was a revolutionary technology
yeah and people like you denied it's revolutionary, especially in very early days. crypto is not even 10 years old, when internet was 10 years old in 1993 few people had faith in it, but some like andreas antonopolous(don't care how it's spelled) did and now they have faith in crypto.
>2) people got equity in good firms, like Amazon or eBay
yeah nah, people bought dog shit. likea site that would sell chocolate and that's it, it was completely irrational.
>3) some of those firms survived the dot com crash.
there gonna be crypto that will survive, like ethereum, of course they gonna be down, but will recover eventually like amazon did.
>and now they are struggling to stay alive
looks pretty lively from here, ethere is close to ATH for example.
are you a fiat marine by chance?
> People are moving into alts to make to make the same gains in a few days as people made In months in the blue chips. These are huge red flags.
this has happened for year now, btc was down, alts rising, btc up, alts down. it's the same fucking shit.

>>5707300
>Charlie Lee selling all his coins should tell you everything you need to know.
What is that supposed to tell me?

>>5701179
Happy New Years anon. Your words are true. We are all going to make it as long as everyone just holds and doesnt invest into PND shitcoins.

>>5707300
there are plenty of questionable stock valuations too
Look at TSLA, or TWTR
neither company is profitable on the books, but they are trading at huge valuations.
Its all hype! In the stock market just as much as crypto!!


>>5707484
see what I wrote here
>>5705802

>>5707364
>Why is it *exactly* opposite?

https://masterthecrypto.com/crypto-ico-vs-stock-ipo/

The biggest problem with IPOs Is they require going through a lot of government (SOX) regulation which many smaller firms cannot do, thanks Enron. ICOs on the flip-side can be issued by any NEET in their basement, there is no oversight. You could be investing in a total scam and you wouldn't even know.

The big red flag should be that most people on /biz/ don't even care about that because it's all about the dump n pump. They want to scam people out of their money.

The irony is that no institutional investor will touch ICOs with a 10 foot pole because it's obvious they don't meet the disclosure requirements of IPO firms. So this market is crypto market is for NEETs thinking they are playing smart financial analysts online.

>>5707617
its about owning part of something you like essentially

What are some advice for extreme poorfags (initial investments < 1000)? I bought half a litecoin when it was ~$40 and happy to see it sharply rise but I probably could've done way better if i went into really cheap coins like FUN or REQ at that time.

>>5707617
>Its all hype! In the stock market just as much as crypto!!
so true, right now every company that adds blockchain to it's name gets pumped 300%, smart money in stock market lmao, everyone just wants to get rich overnight like in crypto.

>>5707668
for me its about making a return on investment...

I will buy pepsi stock even if I am a die hard coca cola

screw getting attached to things, just trade the charts

>>5707505
>when internet was 10 years old in 1993 few people had faith in it,

How old are you?

I've been using the internet since 1995. It was completely obvious by even the last 80s that internet was the real deal. BBS, newsgroups. Sure your average user took until 2005 to get online but every innovator was online in the 80s and most early adapters in the 90s.

> ethereum

The CEO is a total baby on twitter. No chance people will have faith in him.

>>5707526
>What is that supposed to tell me?

That the party is over and the smart money is gone. Now is when the sharks feast on all the wannabe investor NEETs in alts.

>>5707617
>TSLA

I agree with that Tesla. It's trading based on future profits. Very speculative stock. With that said it's still stock in a firm, not a token from a startup. management team is top-notch too. Good branding. It's risky but there is a lot of pros as well.

>>5707762
>The CEO is a total baby on twitter. No chance people will have faith in him.

no bully ple𝓪se

>>5707648
The point you should've picked up on is that regulatory oversight is required for some teams and not for others. Institutional investors should stay away from certain coins and will be kicking themselves that they missed out on others because of rules a gaggle of lawyers came up with one or several decades ago.

>The big red flag should be that most people on /biz/ don't even care about that because it's all about the dump n pump. They want to scam people out of their money.

Welcome to your first day on /biz/. Don't worry, after the first week you'll actually recognize the 20% of threads that are PnD instead of sounding like a paranoid retard.

>>5707762
>It was completely obvious by even the last 80s that internet was the real deal.
in a hindsight, there was plenty of fud, some were fudding even in 2005 believe it or not.
>he CEO is a total baby on twitter. No chance people will have faith in him.
even POTUS is a baby on twitter these days
>That the party is over and the smart money is gone
shit fiat-marines tell themselves to cope

>>5707822
>The point you should've picked up on is that regulatory oversight is required for some teams and not for others. Institutional investors should stay away from certain coins and will be kicking themselves that they missed out on others because of rules a gaggle of lawyers came up with one or several decades ago.

Institutional investors aren't poorfags on 4chan. They are risk averse and care more about wealth preservation rather than wealth creation. They don't care about making 50% gains on [insert shitcoin] because they find the risks

> putting money on sketchy not FDIC insured exchanges
> coin price manipulated to fake news
> whales pumping and dumping
> No equity ownership, coin can be discarded at any time

COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

But keep thinking you're so much more smart and intelligent than the those old, out of date, bankers and lawyers, Mr. Analyst NEET.

>>5706156
I'm invested in some coins similar to the "scams" you've described and it's too early to tell because no profit has been generated, but it's also too early to immediately jump to the conclusion that any and all ICOs are scams .

Tbh you come off as a bitter bluechip investor grumbling at your safe 6% yearly returns. People were saying the exact same thing you were saying 2-3 months ago (late adopters) yet most people here have at least doubled. Instead of starting the new year with FUD, you should open your mind and begin anew in 2018.

>>5707981
well

its always smart to follow the rule
"dont invest more than you are willing to lose"

like I said at the start, theres nothing wrong with putting some of your play money into crypto

>>5707981
>Institutional investors aren't poorfags on 4chan. They are risk averse and care more about wealth preservation rather than wealth creation. They don't care about making 50% gains on [insert shitcoin] because they find the risks

They're the ones who invest in Puerto Rican bonds to make up their underfunding. They're the idiots who bought into subprime MBS' sight unseen. If they could invest in every pajeet PnD posted here, they would, as long as Rajesh first paid Moody's to stamp his coin AAA.

>But keep thinking you're so much more smart and intelligent than the those old, out of date, bankers and lawyers, Mr. Analyst NEET.

What matters at the end of the day are returns. Their hands are tied, for good and bad. Mine are not.

>>5708025
>it's too early to tell because no profit

The firms have no obligation to give you profit with a coin.

The only way the coin price will increase is if more people want to own the coin, user adoption. But firm profits will have no impact on coin adoption.

If they are profitable, then can launch their own IPO and the stock price will represent firm profits. You token will be a Pokemon card.

>People were saying the exact same thing you were saying 2-3 months ago (late adopters) yet most people here have at least doubled

Things have changed in the last month. Before we were still in the bull run. Now the market is in chaos.

>heres NOTHING WRONG with putting some of your play money into crypto

Except I've listed a a ton of problems with crypto, like no equity stake

>>5707300
Haha you are a fucking moron. Even if crypto crashed 90% tomorrow the entire thing will bounce back over time even stronger then before.

>>5708166
listen anon
I know its hard to buy at this point
but bitcoin is in a juicy dip right now

this is digital gold.
its decentralized.
it works. its proven to work for years now.
there is social awareness now
2018 is going to be a big year

I honestly think you would be happier putting some funds into it. just a small amount that you are willing to lose. Consider it buying peace of mind. Then as btc keeps skyrocketting until 2020, you can rest easy knowing you are on board.

Please dont be angry at me for suggesting it.
I wish you luck in 2018 anon

>>5708166
>The firms have no obligation to give you profit with a coin.

And TSLA or AMZN or any other stock has no obligation to give you profit either.

The same exit options of voting Musk or Bezos out of the company due to underperformance exist in ICO land in the form of forks.

In a well-run ICO setup, the company avoids that and has a stake in the network's success. It's no use controlling a money printing machine or the rules for using it (or IPOing those assets away) if no one keeps finding a use for the money you print.

>>5701179
ACOMULAAT EN HAAHLDDDD

>>5708332

>>5708297
>this is digital gold.

Have you invested all your savings in BTC? How many people have invested their savings in BTC? How much has that number increased from Jan. 17 to Jan 18? There is no proof that people are using BTC as digital gold.

In fact, it's far too volatile to use used as a store of wealth, lol my network dropped 10% today.

>its decentralized.

No it's not. In theory BTC was supposed to be decentralized but in practice the miners are run in china because of cheap electricity and combine their power onto pools.

If the Chinese govt raids the miners, the network will experience massive congestion. If the pools get together, they can do a 51% hack.

>it works. its proven to work for years now.

No, it's never seen mass adaptation and it's 9 years old now. Look at smartphones. iPhone is only 2 years old than blockchain and it's changed how people communicate. This technology is a dud.

>I honestly think you would be happier putting some funds into it. just a small amount that you are willing to lose.

I had 10k I was willing to invest but I serious after the major BTC crash to 10.5k. I was going to invest in alts, XRP @ .80c but didn't once I realized all the dangers and how shitty this market was, I stopped.

I'm not a greedy poorfag like so many people on here.

>>5708331
>SLA or AMZN or any other stock has no obligation to give you profit either.

They don't have an obligation but they have an incentive. Once a firm reaches market saturation ,and is no longer a growth stock, they will issue dividends to increase their stock price. It makes the stock more attractive to prudent investors.

>The same exit options of voting Musk or Bezos out of the company due to underperformance exist in ICO land in the form of forks.

ROFL. forks are hostile takeovers. And if a project is open-source, anyone can take over your project and make your original token worthless.

>In a well-run ICO setup, the company avoids that and has a stake in the network's success

There is no stake. The token is worthless. It's only useful to you if it sells for me. It's totally meaningless from the companies end.

We're still early in the grand scheme, I agree. Some of us are going to get fucked by the government as an example if we make it. They're lagging behind on regulating this until they've made their big bucks, the richest will get in and then attempt to destroy the market in their favor. There's a huge opportunity this year, but this could be the last for astronomical gains.

>>5708456
if you are so averse to holding it and have zero faith in the long term implications of the technology, it is still one of the most volatile markets that exists today

every daytrader knows that volatility is the key
you can be a scalper and purely trade BTC/USD. you can cash out to 100% fiat every night before you go to sleep. There is nothing wrong with this. Also stop pressing enter so much!! the reddit spacing is killing me

>>5708166
The token I was alluding to was MOD. The token itself is a profit sharing mechanism and has voting rights (something you said a token doesn't have). They hold monthly CEO updates and this update revealed a logistics company with revenue in excess of $5bn is USING (not "partnership" or "joint research") their PHYSICAL PRODUCT. MOD knows they don't need their own ecosystem and run on whatever network works best for them (NEM, IOTA, ETH).

The pessimist side of me, much like yourself, asked "why didn't they do an IPO"? I've come to the conclusion that they knew their product was something that the market they're targetting needed and they wanted to raise funds in a timely manner. And guess what? It worked out pretty well for them as they were able to jump into the market without going through a lengthy, heavily regulated IPO almost exclusively available to big money or institutional investors. If you're trying to raise capital for a blockchain product, who do you think is the best to ask? A bunch of men set in their ways who, in all likelihood, think blockchain is just a gimmick, or small investors like myself who can collectively help them reach their goal?

Yes, there are a shiton of tokens that don't need to exist, promise the world, or are scams, but there are others out there that just need time to prove themselves. In the future more regulated ICOs may be a way for small investors to invest in a promising project early, rather than just the above mentioned big-money ones.

>>5708456
>comparing iphone and crypto
You think you're smart, but you're not.

>>5708552
>daytrader

I don't have the skill to time the market correctly 51%+ to make consistent profit. I'd just be rolling the dice day trading.

FYI I have a mining rig and I've made 100s on shitcoins, So I am making profit. But I still believe this is a total scam.

>>5708456
Lol. I put my entire 20k savings into in april. I'm young and the risk was worth it. I now have 890k in the bank after taxes and another 375k riding currently in crypto.

Please shut the fuck up you stupid fucking boomer. If you exited this market completely you are a big fat sloppy oversized pussy.

>>5707981
>Institutional investors
>They are risk averse and care more about wealth preservation rather than wealth creation.
AHAHAAAHAHAHHAHA

>>5701179
pls be my gf!!!

>>5708524
>They don't have an obligation but they have an incentive. Once a firm reaches market saturation ,and is no longer a growth stock, they will issue dividends to increase their stock price. It makes the stock more attractive to prudent investors.

Yes, the ICO equivalent mechanisms include token burn and planned switches to staking.

>ROFL. forks are hostile takeovers. And if a project is open-source, anyone can take over your project and make your original token worthless.

No, a hostile takeover is a hostile takeover. Forks are the spawning of competitors and, since the value of tokens lies in their network, poach a critical mass of users to become viable.

>There is no stake. The token is worthless. It's only useful to you if it sells for me. It's totally meaningless from the companies end.

Your stake can't tell the company what to do. But it is value in the network, which is the only reason the company exists in the first place. If I just own all the production equipment, employee records, sales network, patents, and financial transactions of Tesla, it's not essential that I be able to fire Elon Musk.

>>5708606
>I still believe this is a total scam

I don't know anon, clearly there has to be some need that crypto fulfills. That's why it's been around and will continue to be around. If BTC goes down in the future (likely), something else will take its place. Crypto isn't going down with bitcoin. I'm sure the tech at the very least isn't going be purged from history because entire governments are looking at ways to get involved for use/regulation.

Also happy new years to all, may everyone be blessed with gains beyond what we can imagine

>>5708586
I just skimmed over their website. MOD looks better than some of the shitcoins I see people shilling. With that said, their disclosure states,

>MOD TOKENS DO NOT PROVIDE THE >TOKENHOLDER WITH CON- VERSION RIGHTS >INTO SHARES OR OTHER EQUITY OF >MODUM.IO OR ANY OTHER RIGHTS >WHATSOEVER, OTHER THAN THE RIGHTS >SET OUT BELOW. THEY DO NOT REPRESENT >OR CONFER ANY OWN- ERSHIP RIGHT OR >STAKE, SHARE OR SECURITY OR >EQUIVALENT RIGHTS, VOTING RIGHT OR >ANY RIGHT TO RECEIVE FUTURE REVE- NUE >SHARES, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS >OR ANY OTHER FORM OF PARTICIPATION IN >MODUM.IO AND ITS CORPORATE AF- >FILIATES, OTHER THAN THE RIGHTS >MENTIONED BELOW IN THIS SECTION II.

>>5708624
>Lol. I put my entire 20k savings into in april. I'm young and the risk was worth it. I now have 890k in the bank after taxes and another 375k riding currently in crypto.

That's fine. There was a big difference investing at the beginning of a bull market vs. the end. And you seem to be smart than the average person so you actually cashed out some profit. I respect that.

But a lot of these people are getting in post dec. and they have everything invest in alts. If you lose everything in crypto, you are still up, but if they lose, not so much.

>>5708456
>iPhone is only 2 years old than blockchain and it's changed how people communicate

>>5708664
that statement is true though

>>5708929
i guess if you suffer from amnesia, yeah.

>>5708456
>Look at smartphones. iPhone is only 2 years old than blockchain and it's changed how people communicate. This technology is a dud.

Nokia 9000 Communicator was the first smartphone, released in 1996

>>5708977
>i guess if you suffer from amnesia, yeah.
I assume you are referring to the subprime mortgage nightmare. That was because those loans were being bundled into derivatives (essentially money laundering) so the rating agencies couldn't give a proper risky profile to the assets. Investors didn't realize the risk.

>>5708977
theres a reason the bond market still exists despite it having basically the worst returns lately

>>5702436
W-w-what’s your name?

Good guy anon. We need more bizraelis like you. Happy new year.

>>5702025
>buy REQ
Wait how did they know about req that long ago?

>>5708819
This response is fine and all but what gives makes you think this is the end of the bull market?

600 billion is nothing in the grand scheme of things. The decline of the so called blue chip coins is actually bullish imo. All of them are useless except ETH atm. Market is evolving.

>>5709025
>Investors didn't realize the risk.
they did, at least higher ups and they came out of it richer, while goyim paid for bailout.
>I assume you are referring to the subprime mortgage nightmare
and dotcom and great depression and every other bubble, it was all a pump and dump essentially.

>>5709107
>Wait how did they know about req that long ago?
The site lets you post comments after the thread, that's one of them. Check the date.

>>5709107
>>buy REQ
>Wait how did they know about req that long ago?

so many missed moon missions over the past year
how many posts like this have we glossed over
how many chances to make it did we ignore
how many "long term holds" did we sell too early

>>5709167
hold up
REQ was announced on 8/31/17
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2137740.0

what the fuck was that guy referencing
did we just spot a time traveller

>>5709119

You can read my prior posts in this thread. I laid out my case why I think this is total shit.

In short, alt coins are 1) vaporware, 2) people are investing not because of fundamentals (like I did when reading MODs white paper) but because of of news articles in the headlines and 3) shitcoins aren't equity, so you are just getting a token, a pokemon card, you aren't entitled to future profit and if the firm does make it big, they can do an IPO and those shareholders will get the profit.

Once people realize there is no substance, they are being manipulated by whales, and they aren't entitled to future revenue, this market will collapse.

If market had solid fundamentals then I would agree it's evolving but because it doesn't, I see it as devolving.

Also 600 market cap isn't completely accurate measure of comparison because of such low liquidity. People aren't trading crypto like they are trading stocks. So the actual amount of money, cash in the market, is a lot lower.

>>5703828
I went in a month ago and have nearly 2x'd just holding

and half my portfolio is litecoin @ 350.

this thread was going to be cool, but you faggots killed it with anime.

>>5709236
That's what I was saying. I'm scared

>>5709139
The date is still Jan 1

>>5709236
pls be my gf!!! pls!!!

>>5709320
its too late to stop now sorry

>>5709339
>>5709139
oh yeah haha hes right
it says Jan 1 2018

phew thanks anon
almost went all in on REQ there

>>5702025
>buy REQ
nigger what the fuck WHO'S MANS IS THIS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7cVQQ2DdIM&t=20s

>>5709382
THIS IS SOME NEXT LEVEL SHILLING

>>5709119
>he decline of the so called blue chip coins is actually bullish imo

Also think about this from a normies perspective. They invest because they hear BTC is the future and everyone is getting rich on BTC. But now BTC is too expensive so they go buy cheaper alt coin thinking it might be the next BTC. If BTC crashes, they will get scared and pull out their funds. That's why BTC crashing is very dangerous, it'll bring the entire market down.

and like I said, a lot of ppl have alts on btc-alt exchanges. So if BTC crashes, they might not be able to transfer their funds fast enough to a fiat exchange to sell.

I think the "safe money" was blue chips on fiat exchanges, before the BTC dec correction. When Charlie Lee sold out, that was the sign things are gonna get dangerous.

>>5701179
Aww thank you good sir! I appreciate your positive encouragement!

>>5709442
this is a nice video, but people made the exact same predictions at each of those sell off "bases" that hes marked in the past year

heres the chart from january of 2017
people were saying this was the blowoff top, the parabolic move is over, time for the big dip to form, have fun holding those $1000 bags idiots etc etc

We are all gonna be rich fellow /biz/nessmen, happy 2018

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>5709740
>people were saying this was the blowoff top, the parabolic move is over, time for the big dip to form, have fun holding those $1000 bags idiots etc etc

Look at the scale. Jan 16-17 was a 100% increase. Jan 17-18 was a 1300% increase. The shape of the graph is just one aspect. Our blow-off top today look a lot like the Dotcom bubble.

And 1k would have been bag holders except that Japanese legalization causes the current bull run. Do you expect to see equally positive news in 2018 to continue the bull run?

>>5709849
>Do you expect to see equally positive news in 2018 to continue the bull run?

yes I think BTC has lots of good news coming
to steal from this tweet https://i.imgur.com/jZV4iKn.png
>1. Nasdaq Bitcoin Futures
>2. NYSE Bitcoin ETFs
>3. Cboe Bitcoin ETFs
>4. Scaling / Lower Fees
>5. More Adoption Due to ↑
>6. Many Billion of Institutional Money Coming to Bitcoin / Crypto

Bitcoin is bigger than ever

I am exiting the thread now, been here for 6 hours! time to sleep. night night /biz/, happy new year

>>5709955
https://twitter.com/iamjosephyoung/status/945742168127291393

im v tired

thanks op this thread marks a good start for 2018 i think

>>5709955

You are the reason the world needs bankers. Because normies aren't able to properly analyze information.

>1. Nasdaq Bitcoin Futures

Which means that whales will be able to short the market. Make money by crashing the market.

There are 15m BTC, only 20k are traded daily on GDAX. Those coins in sold storage can easily crash the market.

>2. NYSE Bitcoin ETFs
>3. Cboe Bitcoin ETFs

Same as above

People thought futures would bring more intuitional investors. They haven't. Instead futures will help Wales sell even more coins to people that want to buy the dip.

>4. Scaling / Lower Fees
>5. More Adoption Due to ↑

If I lose my wallet ID, I lose my funds. If I sent coins to a wrong address they are gone forever. BTC will never scale because it's not consumer friendly. This is true for all crypto.

>6. Many Billion of Institutional Money Coming to Bitcoin / Crypto

Read the liquidity part. intuitional investors will not invest because it's too easy for whales to manipulate the market.

The price is going up because of irrational normie investing. It'll go down as well for the same reason/ Too risky for investors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsaU4-AUW2Y

>>5701179
wholesome post, thanks bro.

>>5705751
>I will write "I <3 you biz" across my hairy sweaty ass
I'd really appreciate it if you didn't.

we are the normies.

>>5710233
Blah blah blah.

You know, edwin knows a few things, and one of the things edwin knows is, it's not how you stand by your car, it's how you race your car. You better learn that.

>>5710387
>implying you have a choice

>>5707648
Asx: DCC
Look it up.

If someone wants to try a high risk-high reward group, join discord.gg/BfJcz7

>>5708456
my god the state of this

>>5701179
i hope u are right animeposter