/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>56417483
Holy fuck I need to sell my AMZN shares ASAP.

>>56417483
Fuck it posted before I could finish; what do you think /biz/?

Will robots be good or bad for the economy?

Do you see them being good for the average person or only for ceo's?

>>56417492

>>56417492

>Do you see them being good for the average person or only for ceo's?

I see them steepening the wealth divide even more. Sure Ai and robotics will have a deflationary effect on the economy but what is the point if people are put out of work and you have a government that is a laggard in addressing the problem?

>>56417483
WHY DOES THE ROBOT BLINK

>>56417483
When do they put a fleshlight in their public area and let me fuck them?

>>56417483
>>56417483
Why the fuck do they have legs surely wheels are more efficient

>>56417524
Because a mexican child was dismantled and his brain and nervous system inserted into the machine.

>>56417554
Amazon already has plenty of wheeled robots so they must have done the legs for a reason.

>>56417483
better learn to be a robot technician huh

>>56417607
so they can squash soft wagie heads

Why doesn't it have wheels instead of feet? And why does it turn around when it can just have cameras on the front and back ?

fuckers are taller than me

>>56417483
5'9" CHADS RISE UP.
When they have inevitable down time we can get a few hours in and eat a cheeseburger twice month.

>>56417492
>replace your worker with robots, no more safety pay, nor more regulation pay, nor more paying.
>replaced workers have less money now, are either work in lower pay job or don’t have jobs at all. Either way, they won’t be able to buy frivolous shit from your company, you lose money.
It all depends on UBI and how much it’s gonna be

>cost for each robot probably astronomical
>maintenance and repairs just as expensive
>robot moves at a much slower rate than even the slowest, fattest human
>can only lift up empty box and put it back down again
Robot workers are such a meme.

>>56417671
Mogged
I mean Zogged

>>56417800
This. Doubt they are cheaper than a human.
A human is incredibly efficient.

>>56417800
>people with real jobs get paid to make this happen
>amazon saves hundreds of millions
>the savings is passed on to the people with the real jobs
unskilled labor is the meme

>>56417492
I’d say having somewhat good paying jobs is a hell of a lot more important than a mega corp churning out slightly higher profits.

>>56417483
Hork-Bajr

>>56417820
You can pick someone off the street and pay him 20 dollars an hour and youre good to go fo whatever you need him to do.
This robot probably costs 100k at least and is very limited in what he can actually do

>>56417483
too slow, they'd be fired day 1.

>>56417820
>>people with real jobs get paid to make this happen
Yeah, but is Amazon willing to pay the huge amounts to accomplish such a basic task?
>>amazon saves hundreds of millions
No way. Each robot probably costs hundreds of thousands if not millions. And that doesn't include things like physical maintenance, software/hardware repairs, and the "firmware update" program that the host company probably has a yearly fee for
>>the savings is passed on to the people with the real jobs
So working in warehouse isn't a real job? Kys kike.
You sound like those faggots 10 years ago that said self driving cars would replace driving cars. And now it looks like that will never ever happen.

>>56417818
>>56417800
Amazon: "The system is designed to help identify and store inventory 75% more quickly, it said, and reduce the processing time of orders by as much as 25%."

Apparently they are faster than humans, might be a lie to appease shareholders but idk.

>>56417646
feet so it can go up and down steps

>>56417855
>Amazon: "The system is designed to help identify and store inventory 75% more quickly, it said, and reduce the processing time of orders by as much as 25%."
Did you watch the video you braindead faggot? The robot moves much slower than the average human.

>>56417855
I call bullshit

>>56417483
Looks like a Robo-Xavier Renegade Angel

That is fucking stupid. I miss my nigga Marty he was way funner.

>>56417554
Because the human body is incredibly efficient. They cant come up with a better deisgn, because there is none.
So right form the start this whole thing is bullshit.

>>56417866
Yes, but the robot can work 24/7 without rest, and if they are cheaper than human employees more of them can be used for the same cost, thus completing more work per day in total.

>>56417888
>Yes, but the robot can work 24/7 without rest
So what? They can just get 3 humans for 3 shifts (or 2 humans for 2 shifts based on Amazons long hours). And you don't think they have to be stopped so they can charge? Or have some gears greased? How do you faggots even manage to breathe. This is literally self driving cars all over again.
"D-dude self driving cars will replace truckers and cab drivers by 2021. Suck it wagies!"

>>56417483
Garbage. The robot i have in my warehouse is Autostore. Much better. I hired 2 software engineers and they helped me code an AI to run that. I run a warehouse with 2 software engineers, 3 technicians to manage the facility and 1 cleaner. No a single low earning overtime consuming dirty wagie.

>>56417915
Sure faggot. Your shit is more advanced than Amazons. /biz/ larpers are the fucking worst.

>>56417926
If you watch Amazon's robot, it lifts up the container before making a move. I'm a programmer and I'm sitting here wondering why the fuck didn't they just program it to not do that.

>>56417483
thank GOD the robots will replace that meaningless labor. *pukes*

>>56417646
Wheels can’t curb stump

>>56417887
>They cant come up with a better deisgn, because there is none.
Not true, crab form is the most efficient form. Look it up.

>>56417515
I agree. We should also ban modern textile machines and bring back human labor sewing, and ban rail and automobiles and revert back to horse mules. Surely this will lower the wealth gap.

Literal mouth breather

>>56417908
Thats why you have a buffer of robots. I've never seen a robro go to the doctor either, healthare ain't cheap. Turnover ain't either and wagiebot here solves both.

>>56418210
>Thats why you have a buffer of robots.
You're not getting it. Lots of humans is cheaper than lots of robots you braindead faggot. When one human sleeps, another takes it's place. When one robot needs to charge, another takes it's place.
Right now Amazon is paying tons of money for a robot that works slower than a human.
>I've never seen a robro go to the doctor either, healthare ain't cheap.
Does Amazon even have healthcare? And what do you MAINTENANCE/REPAIRS on the robots are you fucking braindead faggot? You think that's cheap?
>Turnover ain't either and wagiebot here solves both.
So robots will never break down to the point of not being able to be used again? I would guess the work life of this robot is probably 5 years tops. That's about the average Amazon worker as well.
Please jump into a giant blender you gigantic faggot.

>>56418603
Holy shit you're dumb. A large corp would not invest this much in robotics if it wasn't profitable.

>5'9

literally designed to replace brown labor

>>56418676
>Holy shit you're dumb. A large corp would not invest this much in robotics if it wasn't profitable.
Yeah, because companies like Google and Amazon don't have a string of complete fucking failures. Remember the Amazon smartphone? "D-dude it must make sense financially if Amazon is doing it!". You literally sound like those faggots that have been saying that self driving cars will replace truckers by 2021, but of course that is still nowhere near happening (though those big companies dropped tons of cash trying to develop it).
The only real Amazon benefit I see from these robots is that it will scare their human workers into not striking for fears of replacement.

>>56417483
What an extremely expensive and retarded way to move a plastic bin 10 feet

>>56417524
You didn't see that.

>>56417887
>>56417868
>>56417843
Seething creature of meat and bone detected
You can never challenge a perfect, immortal machine

>>56417949
>it lifts up the container before making a move
It's just exercising

>>56417855
Yeah this is bullshit metrics for shareholder slides

>t. former amzn corporate

>>56418084
>Not true, crab form is the most efficient form. Look it up.
For what? Doing warehouse work? Bullshit

>>56418716
Now watch a human do it.
>>56418910
I have to agree fellow amabot. But looking at how widespread the kiva robots are, there will probably be a decent benefit to these. Someone probably wrote all that jargon for a promotion kek.

>>56418704
You're the dumbest nigger alive. These robots are first gen. The next gens will be quicker and these robots only work where humans are not supposed to in the factory. I think amazon knows how to run their business better than you dumb nigger. It must suck not having any foresight. You are stupider than a rock. Go back to r3ddit immediately

>>56418805
Those machines are neither perfect nor immortal

>>56417483
what's the deal with the fat nigger worker just watching and wasting time?

>>56419064
Yeah probably. I just remember how much we'd round up metrics to make it sound better, all of the "core principles" Bezos scripture, the innovate yourself out of a job mindset. No doubt they're buttering up these metrics like usual, or it's performance review time kek

>>56418999
For snipping. Snapping also

>>56417855
They have ‘robots’ that are more efficient than humans for picking orders but they don’t look like this at all. Literally just rack towers full of products with little carts that feed the products onto a conveyor. This shit honestly just looks like they got scammed.

>>56417820
>the savings is passed on
Oh shit, everyone look! We've got a retard here!

>>56417915
Dude I run a warehouse with just me and a Mexican on days and his cousin comes in at night. We do like 20 live loads a day. AI literally cannot compete with Mexicans.

>>56417483
>carry 35lbs
>slow as fuck
how fat and retarded do you have to be to get outworked by this robot

>>56417800
Actual "robot workers" are things like the robots that manufacture cars, le ebin sci-fi androids are just a meme

>>56417483
Could all of this shit really be that bullish for AMZN?

I reckon that once the pacific coast turns into a retail desert when companies abandon states like California, Washington and Oregon, thieves will start to target warehouses more. It would only take some amateur hackers to control the robots/AI trucks and clean house by stealing entire aisles of shit overnight.

>>56419303
This is one of the few people with a brain in the thread. If you want an efficient robot, you essentially get a few hypercompetent unitasker machines in a conveyor belt type setup. These are just a meme.

While Amazon is probably the only Alphabet soup corporation that is actually profitable in its own right, it doesn't exclude them from the usual frivolous spending on ridiculous bullshit.

>>56419487
>le ebin sci-fi androids are just a meme

uhhh anon, sorry to say but you're looking at one.

>>56417629
kek, just like that bear spray robot lol.

>>56419487
This. If Amazon really wanted to make their facilities robotic they would be using heavy duty factory robots, not bipedal robots with fucking glowing eyes

>>56419487
>>56419550
Their uncanny humanoid features make them more effective for scaring wagies into dropping their plans to unionize. The best part is that you don't even have to rearrange a warehouse floor from what the wagies are already familiar with - you trot your union-buster-bots out onto the floor as it already exists, film them bumbling around for an hour, and then make up a bunch of bullshit about how you're planning to spend ten gorillion dollars on the project and project 10x productivity within a few years.

>>56419522
Amazon has been trying for 20 years to optimize their warehouses.They cant do it without humans and most likely never will.
There is constantly stuff coming in and going out.
With different shapes, different weights, different heights. Humans can handle that fine and are designed to deal with and understand anything. Robots cant.

>>56417888
But can it run?
Can it deprioritise certain elements of its own necessities to ensure your task is applied (piss in bottles)

When they’re pushed out, that’s it. There’s no improvements. You can’t motivate them, you can’t hurry them and it takes for fucking ever to change a pattern that works with other systemic patterns. Humans do it intuitively. AI could cover this.
But realistically, programming is going to become verbal.
It’s not like you need skilled labour to
Make an Amazon robot.
The same labour pool available now assembles and directs the bots.
But a current picker would need like 10 bots to replace their speed.

The problem is having a hybrid factory layout. It’s still human centric, rather than based in the process of automation like a car factory. Huge waste of money, but he can is that expense for the bots he’ll need for blue origin or whatever

>>56417483
They are so fcking slow. Normies are
5-10 x faster.

>>56419516
Obviously not.
It’s a fucking press release to try and rally investors. Nothing in that release shows an improvement in. Capabilities for fulfilment or delivery.

I see a company wasting billions on nothing but press. But into their competitors and wait for acquisition.

>>56417843
No pension, no break, no healthcare, no injury liability, no sleep, no sass, no piss bottle, no promotion, no aging, no theft

>>56419097
>. These robots are first gen. The next gens will be quicker
Same shit was said about self driving cars. "Who cares if they can't avoid a pot hole right now. They will get better!" And as of now self driving cars are DEAD. You honestly think there is going to be some magical upgrade in robotics in the next few years? I remember seeing a very similar robot from Honda about 15 years ago. You are legit living in a fantasy land same as all those "truck drivers will be out of business by 2021" faggots. Literally kys you fucking dummy.

>>56419737
>No pension
Cost of actual robot + maintenance + repairs + upgrades (you don't think the manufacturer will just sell it and be done? They will DLC the fuck out of this)
>no break
They have to charge and get tune ups you fucking tard
>no healthcare
See maintenance + repair
>no injury
Machines break you fucking braindead faggot.
>no injury liability
Fair enough. But it doesn't offset the initial cost + upkeep.
>no sleep
They have to charge.
>no sass
Yeah, because tech (especially those with moving parts) works 100% perfect all the time and doesn't spit out error codes
>no piss bottle
Gears have to be greased. And the robots can't do that themselves.
> no promotion
How many Amazon workers get promoted?
>no aging
Are you fucking retarded? Are you saying tech is fresh forever. Still using a Windows 98 PC?
>no theft
How much theft is at Amazon warehouses? And if anything some thieves might want to steal the actual robots themselves.
Seriously, how the fuck do you retards even remember to breathe? You're so fucking stupid.

>>56419795
>>56419770
>>56419676
>>56419377
>>56419487
>>56418716
>>56417847


Everyone in here talking about "oh it's slow" or "what about maintenance" are the same retards who 1 year ago when midjourney came out and it couldn't draw fingers and faces dismissed all ai as "useless".

Then six months later it could draw faces, then it started to draw faces, now it's able to do text.

Technology progresses, there's a reason we're not using 99% humans in factory belts anymore, those jobs have either been replaced by automation or outsourced to china because americans don't want to do them anymore.

I for one welcome our new robo overlords.

Even at just now, 24/7 digit bot that doesn't need breaks, works more than 9-5, doesn't take weekends or holidays off will probably be able to fill a higher quota than the average amazon wagie.

Plus even amazon has admitted they're running out of people to hire, their borderline slavery system where they keep people for max 3 months and then kick them out in order to nip unions and inefficient workers at the bud means they go through workers like a fat boy goes through tendies.

>>56419850
mid wit. don't call people stupid when you haven't read as much as they have.

>>56419902
take your own advice retard.

>>56419850
My job tried to use a robot to do a simple thing any human can do which was move a big empty metal container after being emptied and then taking it to be filled and putting it away and it ended up needing to be constantly monitored and redirected by an employee because they function completely off sensors or cameras that constantly gets dust on it. That robot is now sitting in the corner covered in a tarp and hasn't been touched in 2 years because it ended up being too slow and now they just pay someone to do what the robot did. What's the point of getting rid of a menial job just to pay someone to babysit a robot doing it?

>>56420006
>What's the point of getting rid of a menial job just to pay someone to babysit a robot doing it?

I wouldn't doubt if amazons robros automatically flag when they malfunction or something happens, better to have 1 guy watching 10 robots than 1 manager and 10 wagies.

>>56417492
The amazon bots in your OP post are just a trial and we're still in a hype phase where everyone is trying to associate their product or service with AI and AI automation so it's not yet clear what Amazon is trying to achieve here. There is a tremendous amount of capital, governmental, public, and private, going into AI companies and AI research now. We will certainly know within a decade how hard the tech can be pushed and if it can be applied to real world industrial use cases or not. Personally, I don't expect robots over the long term to be good or bad for the economy, instead I expect them to redefine the concept if AI can be made reliable enough to operate machinery.

I think it's difficult for people to imagine an AI robot right now because most robots used in industry do a small set of mostly stationary tasks fast and very well and then nothing else, no adaptability whatsoever. The whole promise of AI (in warehouses) is that you could get a robot that does those tasks you needed before but then can also deal with unanticipated issues, 24/7/365, reliably. It won't matter if a robot gets dust in its sensors or someone tries to steal it or vandalize it if it's operated by an AI smart enough or well built enough to just clean its own sensors one way or another or call security forces if necessary. Is AI there right now? Fuck no. But there are a lot of people who think it's possible and more importantly have the money to find out.

>>56417607
Publicity duh

>>56419850
You're comparing software innovation to hardware you dumb retard. Software doesn't have moving parts, a battery, sensors, etc etc. That and software is much cheaper than buying fucking robots.
If this Amazon robot is the "first step" then workers have nothing to worry about for a long time.

>>56420028
>, better to have 1 guy watching 10 robots
The "guy" would have to be some very advanced robotics tech. And the 10 robots will probably cost $2 million dollars. Amazon will fill the place with Venezuelan kids before they pay that much. Use your fucking head.

>>56420368
>You're comparing software innovation to hardware you dumb retard.

Sooo you don't think that hardware will advance too?

But I'm the dumb retard, of course.

>>56420373
>Amazon will fill the place with Venezuelan kids before they pay that much. Use your fucking head.

Yeah maybe in venezuela, not in fucking america, which is where they're testing this, duhhhhh.

>>56420368
Of course. Im a pleb who's working in dhl just one week but i already see what expections are. As a normie warehouse operative you have to pick 160 items per hour. Slavery target. There is no need to worry about for next few years

>>56417483
>>56417509
Put a janny face on that.

>>56417887
The human body is pretty shit. We're made 10x more efficient with a bicycle just because it adds wheels. Hell, there are guys who lost their lower legs and replaced most of them with steel springs and saw improvement on their sprint speed and endurance. Our design is fucked because we're the result of guessing at solutions using a limited base plan. Mammals get 4 limbs, that's it. We turned two of them into hands. Everything else kept four legs or a hybrid setup because four legs works better unlike you're a tool user like we are. The whole endurance hunter thing has nothing to do with our legs. We don't go further because bipedal is more efficient. We go further because we can carry food and water. Hands. We are unique because of hands.

Robots can have as many limbs as we want to give them. Legs are only necessary for navigating uneven terrain, which isn't a problem in a warehouse. A quadruped is far more effective for most activities in that case too. So unless you're trying to prove how good your engineering and gait software is, you make robots with four wheels or legs, and add an arm or two for interacting with whatever. Surprise surprise, that's what the Boston Dynamics Spot robot has, and it works great. These slow fucking things are impractical tech demos designed to get engagement, not do work.

>>56420516
Am i will be chappy soon ? Kek

>>56417483
kinda funny how ridiculous it is to build humanoid robots for those tasks. just change the machinery

>>56417646
Legs beat wheels in terms of balance and weight when you centre of gravity is really high.

>>56420516
>Surprise surprise, that's what the Boston Dynamics Spot robot has, and it works great.

So why google sold boston dynamics to softbank then ? Ohh, softbank then sold it to hyundai motors...

>>56417800
they work 24/7 without salary. Wagies demand rest and are a constant PR nightmare. Even if the robot breaks down every week economies of scale will make replacement / improvement streamlined easy

>>56417509
Need a home version of this with an anime maid body style

>>56417818
>A human is incredibly efficient
If you want a wide variety of things done. If you want one single thing done over and over then a machine is clearly superior.

>>56420516
You are picking specific things and saying how they could be better.
Great.
Now think up a design that can do a million different things in a million different ways.

>>56420397
yeah considering what you just said. you probably should go and learn something.
you are god tier retarded.
piss poor take and breath.

>>56417515
just ban jews

>>56417855
It's probably true over extended periods of time. You might be able to stack a box faster than this thing ten or twenty times, but it can keep going without a break or clocking out. In a raw output challenge, it'd reach 3K boxes stacked by Tuesday morning while you've been sleeping at home with 800 boxes stacked tied to your name.

>>56420395
>Sooo you don't think that hardware will advance too?
Not as fast as software you dumb fucking faggot because software is easier to develop, cheaper to research, and cheaper to test and actually implement (not to mention sell to the consumer). That's why AI grew so quickly and why moving cars and robots having barely budged in the last 15 years. Holy fuck how did /biz/ get so fucking stupid?

>>56420397
>Yeah maybe in venezuela, not in fucking america,
Look into our current migrant crisis you fucking faggot. Tons of them are from Venezuela and they are fucking up NYC with their motorscooters. Why do you think big companies like amazon support open borders? For cheap labor like this (and not robots).

>>56421392
>. You might be able to stack a box faster than this thing ten or twenty times, but it can keep going without a break or clocking out.
Yeah, a robot doesn't need to be recharged...

>>56421633
>moving
*self driving

>>56420590
That's more because they're a research company and are being passed around like a cool points trophy. It's a miracle they got a product to market at all. People who have one love them, even if they're only really good when remote controlled.

>>56421291
I did. A six limbed robot. The hard part is not the overall shape, it's the details. These things are still very software limited and manufacturing hands as useful as ours is a nightmare. We can't even make self driving cars yet.

>>56418210
Amazon warehouses in my city are staffed by hordes of Indians who live 10 to a room in hovels. I think you are vastly overestimating how much a human needs to function. I think in the near term it will remain more profitable to just import people to work for dirt cheap.

>>56417915

is every program called AI now?

>>56418110
People post this shit like
>uhhh did you know that people in the past also opposed automation of traditional crafts??? you want to ban textile machines lol???
while being completely unaware that they're proving their opponents right. The Luddites were entirely correct in their reasoning for opposing textile machines. Industrialization did devalue traditional crafts, it did result in widespread unemployment, it did result in lower wages and worse working conditions for people who were forced to abandon their craft and go work in a factory, it did result in a product that was much lower quality than what had been traditionally produced, etc etc.

All industrialization is inherently anti-human and I can't imagine a more blatant form of humans being replaced by machines than having literal humanoid robots taking the place of human workers. The anon you're replying to is right as concerns the economic effects as well. Say Amazon replaces its entire supply chain with this type of automation. What happens? Who benefits? Well, Amazon employs over a million workers in its various warehouses. Let's be generous and suppose that only about a third of them are replaced, 300,000 people. We'll also assume they're paid poorly and work a standard 40 hour week at $15/hr.

That's a huge amount of money: $9.36 billion dollars. So Amazon replaces those workers with machines and those machines have costs associated with them but either way, nearly $10 billion dollars is saved in payroll costs. This was money that would have gone to poor people - $15 an hour is $31k a year before taxes - and now it's going...where, exactly? Sure as fuck not to Amazon's remaining supply chain workers. No, it's going to the wealthy people at the top of the company or to the shareholders. There are 300k newly unemployed people and there are a handful of executives and upper management getting a nice bonus. That's called widening the wealth gap.

>>56417483
long AMZN

short human wagies

>>56420187
>But there are a lot of people who think it's possible and more importantly have the money to find out.
I think people really don't understand the potential benefits and how eager these massive corporations are to make this stuff work. Amazon had 1,608,000 supply chain workers in 2021. Even if their average pay is $20k a year, and we all know it's way, way higher than that, then that's $32 billion dollars a year.

Even if automation could only save Amazon 5% over the cost of human workers, that would still be (using these grossly deflated numbers) a savings of nearly $2 billion dollars a year.

>>56421644
>>56421651
>>56421639
>>56421633
>>56421320
You sound very upset

All I said was that obviously it will improve like any other technology, so maybe don't right it off.

Now you're here throwing a tantrum boo hoo