/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>56216263
Reimbursed by who?

In Europe you’ll get an appointment with a cancer specialist 3 years after you’ve died

>>56216306
The taxpayer, but the prices are significantly lower due to pharma companies being told to fuck off along with none of the other bullshit like massive corps owning all the services where they can just jack up prices because there's nowhere else to go

>>56216334
>the taxpayer
Taxes don't pay for government spending.

We pay 14% healthcare tax you mongoloid
By the time you see the doc you're already dead

>>56216263
high rates are increasing the price of fuel.

>>56216529
Here in Canada we don't have to die in our homes without treatment now we can legally kill ourselves!

>>56216333
checked and this is correct, its all a load of shit they feed the public

>>56216263
>
That $113 insulin vial is because the state will go in and crush anyone who would produce cheaper insulin for US customers
>
There's no such thing as free lunch, you in Europe you pay for your healthcare through organized state robbery. Which works pretty well during good meritocratic times but fucks people over when state agencies become corrupt and decide you're not getting any "free" help until you take this new gene therapy that was tested for about a year before release

>>56216334
>pharma companies being told to fuck off

>>56216334
Here in the U.S. it's gov that's jacking up the pricing by overbidding

>>56216616
This. Insulin is high because of government regulation. It's not hard to produce insulin, if we deregulated the industry it would be cheap af

>>56216578
>Still living in Canada.
Fucking why?

>>56216263
I don’t understand why leftists are so obsessed with universal healthcare? They make it seem like it’s something that people use every week? I haven’t used it all my life and wished I didn’t have to pay insane taxes for dregs of society that don’t take care of themselves

>>56216263
im willing to compromise what about single payer healthcare where fat people and hard drug users are excluded and where you have to pass a literacy test

>>56216306
the government retarded mutt

>>56217536
>hard drug users
You're no different, stoner

>>56217040
>if we deregulated the industry it would be cheap af
when has that ever worked in any sector

im in france and there are no docs
to see a doc you have to wait for weeks, and you can' t even go to any doctor you have to go to your assigned one. whats that you don't have an assigned doc? tough luck all docs are full and they dont take new patients. you still have to give half your salary every month though, so boomers can go clog the doctor for free every week because they have nothing else to do

>>56218807
Imagine what it was like as a French boomer
>kings of Europe
>White country
>Retire at 57 with a pension
>No waits for services
Lmao

>>56217087
its surprisingly hard to leave. They structure finance and the economy so that you're tied to your job and in constant fear and stress of going broke, so you never get around to fucking leaving this shithole.

>>56218807
doctolib retard. I never waited more than a week to see a doctor. The only reason I see where you would have to wait for weeks is if you live in a random village and refuse categorically to drive to a city.

>>56216263
This meme is so dumb, americans spend less per person as a mean than we do here in the UK with R NHS.

Effectively every mutt gets insurance via work, obamacare or if they really fuck up then payment plans. Here we just pay via tax and have to pay for crazy biologic therapies for inbred retarded pakis.

>>56218756
Cars
Planes
TVs
Mobile phones

>>56218825
Also USA only spends more because it's richer. Ifyou include taxes its equal.

Most medical debt is negligible, what fucks people is there inability to keep up with credit card debt while they're hurt

>>56216334
It's literally the opposite of what one would anticipate.
Imagine you had no idea of the price difference between medicine sold in the US and medicine sold in Europe.
All you new was that one was a commie scheme where the entire healthcare industry is government run and the other is healthcare operating in a free market environment.

Who would ever have expected that you (directly or indirectly through taxation) pay x10 for a standard IV drip in a hospital in the freemarket relative to government run?
Why are doctors being paid x2 in the US? competition in the free market should (in theory) put a downward pressure on wages; high wages inflate the cost of the service being performed, that should be held in check by consumers opting for the ones that offer cheaper services.

..and why the fuck are prescription drugs so expensive in the US? the identical drugs are being sold in Europe at a fraction of the cost; shouldn't it be reversed? commieland failing in the face of capitalism, not the other way around.

>>56218901
It's because it's not real free market in America. There is a cartel fixing drug prices and the law is designed to protect this system.

>>56216616
>That $113 insulin vial is because the state will go in and crush anyone who would produce cheaper insulin for US customers
Novo Nordisk a Danish company sits on the majority of the global insulin market; they sell things in the US at x10 at what they sell it for in Europe, this is at a manufacture level, why would the US ever allow a danish company to charge them x10 for what they sell their product for elsewhere.

>>56218850
ALL of those are because of cheap labor. Do you think American physicians hold doctorates because of the prestige? Fuck no, even assistants are paid 80k per year because hand over fist people who don't know how to correctly price what medical costs should be.

for example.

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/health-insurance/average-childbirth-cost/

in australia the government justifies banning everything fun by saying it would cost the health care system too much

>>56218906
>There is a cartel fixing drug prices and the law is designed to protect this system.
In free market capitalism, there is also extensive consumer protection laws.
You sometimes read about these mass recall of cars e.g. the car battery in this model might explode under these fringe circumstances that hasn't happened yet, but can in theory happen, lets recall 2 million cars and replace their battery.
..and it kind of makes sense in the context of capitalism, you buy a product and it should be as advertised, no defunct seatbelts or exploding batteries.
The thing is the cost-benefitts of this is so loopsided, all cars in the West have build into their price a potential mass recall; not to mention all the energy and resources that car manufactures put into preventing dysfunction in any shape or form; this to get passed on to the consumer.
It's a bug of the system, you have rights as a consumer and there is an implicit contract between you and the seller - about what the product is and if the product isn't as advertised, hell let loose.
How large a percentage of what you pay for a drug or a car is actually just the company passing on the cost of past, present and future consumer rights violations unto the consumer? 20%? 40%?

>>56216263
Why are leftists incapable of memeing.

>>56218818
You mean you can't save money and leave??

>>56216616
>in Europe you pay for your healthcare through organized state robbery
And in America you pay for your healthcare through a state sanctioned grifters. Because in the case of a healthcare insurer you actually have to fight for them to cover the expenses more often than not because it's a for-profit business so they will try to swindle you at every chance and cut corners at every opportunity to increase their profit margins.
Of all the shit America should be proud the complete privatization of the healthcare sector is definitely not one of them.

>>56217087
Family members holding him back, probably—whether out of jealousy or insanity

>>56216333
Typical mutt meme to cope, appointments arent long and especially not for cancer

>>56218901
It’s still technically a free market. You’re free to sell your drug or your procedure (as long as it’s safe and effective) but the state won’t reimburse it. If you want the state to reimburse it you have to negotiate a price with it.
Same goes for doctors by the way, you’re free to bill 150 bucks for a consult but the state won’t reimburse it.

It’s not all good however, states are notoriously penny pinching and reduced the number of doctors per inhabitants over the last 30 years only to have a shortage of doctors (they refuse to pay more) now.

>>56218906
This. In a truly free medical market, there wouldn't be an FDA run by former pharma cartel members regulating "accepted" drugs and practices. There would be far more competition in the types of treatments available. Also, on the subject of free markets, as long as a group of privately owned banks controls our money, no aspect of our market is free.

>>56219709
>appointments arent long
You're full of shit. I've been waiting months for an MRI, and I still don't know when I will get it. Funny thing is, it literally could be cancer.

>>56218901
netflix was cheaper and better when it was a monopoly

>>56218440
>nobody talking about weed
>dude weed is le evil
>total abstinence from any of life's vices is le hecking based xD

you're obsessed and retarded
I'm more of a cough medicine enjoyer anyway

>>56219709
Can only speak for Germany. The earliest you can get a specialist appointment is unironically like 3-4 months. 6 months is actually more common.

>>56216616
i and many euros didn't take any jabs and we had no issues. we were not being bulied, meanwhile you would be fired if you didn't take the jab. that is america. not at all the land of the free.

>>56218946
Marked up treatments that are typically cost-covered by self-bloating insurance companies and their stakeholders.

>>56222671
I'm from Sweden, one of the least oppressive places during the inoculations and I also got 0 shots. I just posted that to point out the potential danger of the state and the fact that when many "capitalist" policies go wrong it's actually just the state fucking things up, only in a less overt way.

>>56218825
UK has shit tier health care. In my country (Finland) special healthcare is as good if not better than USA while having a completely public system. Meaning we treat everyone, while in USA poor people can't even afford the treatments and don't make the waiting lists longer. Americans were foolish enough to believe that capitalism always gives the best outcome, so psycopaths took over the companies, as they always do when given enough time, and started making treatment expensive in USA. T. A doc

>>56220999
It could be cancer but 99% chance it isn't. That's another problem with a free market system. People with money hoard all the screenings and treatment despite probably not needing it, while people who more likely could actually be very sick and in need of treatment won't get it. People with money get overprotected while people without money get undertreated. Humans are selfish like that.

>>56216263
in the us you can get healthcare from an emergency room and just not pay them

>>56222938
How would people be able to hoard MRI screenings in a free market system?

>>56216263
Energy and food aren’t factored into inflation retard. It’s white economics 101

>>56222957
I dunno, by buying up all the appointment times maybe? What kind of question is that lmao.

>>56223012
So if the demand of MRI screenings is at a maximum, why is it that nobody's stepping up to meet that demand with a greater supply of MRI screenings? Supposing that the market is free.

>>56222956
>what brings you to the emergency room today
>"uh, i have cancer. i think? idk i need an MRI i guess"
>get the fuck out

lol you're a stupid nigger

>>56219807
>It’s still technically a free market.
Not sure you know what a free market is, anon.
A free market is a market where the value of it's goods are determined by supply and demand; not decided upon by an oligarchy. With state subsidies, you destroy the free market.
inb4 you call me an amerishart
America's healthcare market isn't a free market either.

>>56216263
mutts are fucking stupid. Healthcare in EU is shit, I live here and it's retarded: adhesions, doctor sends me to emergency, waited 6 hours, saw a pajeet who did not want to scan the stomach. Fuck this this, here if you're sick you're fucking dead.

>>56223181
still not paying my hospital bills schlomo

>>56223063
You need to train more staff (doctors and nurses) and also build the infrastructure for the screenings. It's a bit more complicated that giving more supply of burgers.

>>56223261
Your stomach didn't need to be scanned. You got perfect treatment (oh no you had to wait six hours) and still complain. Some people just can't be happy no matter how good they have it.

>>56223324
Fuck off. I had an MRI done in a caravan out the back of my hospital last year. The technician barely spoke english; all he had to do was press some buttons and make sure I stayed still.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Picrel is the MRI caravan I visited.

>>56218901
You're supposed to haggle (afterwards obviously, because you can actually just walk away and pay nothing.) If you just pay whatever they ask you get what you deserve.

>>56216334
>The taxpayer
Stopped reading there. The fact that my peripheral vision caught the word "but" after this is disgusting.

>>56223367
It did, I had two surgeries in the past and the General Practician jannie directed me to there.

>Baggies thread got deleted.

>>56223324
>You need to train more staff (doctors and nurses) and also build the infrastructure for the screenings
What's your point? Why wouldn't they do that if the demand is at a maximum?

>>56222863
You only have a good public healthcare system because US pharma companies make their bottomline over here while we babysit niggers and make sure that Europe hasn't been turned into the USSR + satellite states for the last 30 years. Be glad you aren't getting fucked in the ass by Ivan, homo.

>>56223373
Do you have any idea how much a caravan like that costs? Also you need to train a doctor to read the MRI scans.

>>56223463
You need to build new med schools for that, new hospitals and the infrastucture for building the machines. Shit like that takes years if not decades.

>>56223574
Russia is a joke, it could never overtake nations othet than some eastern european shitholes.

>>56223615
We know that now, but did everyone know that nine years ago when they took over Crimea with no contest and got rid of ISIS? Poland, Germany, and the Baltics were shitting their pants while the US was the only one to say to Russia "Cool it Ivan". Be glad that you and your sister aren't being used as fleshlights by the Mongolian hordes.

>>56223591
Why does it take years if not decades?

>>56223649
Yes. We've known it since the late 80s.

>>56223706
You don't expect an underpaid ex-nurse to teach technicians which button to press in a cheap cinder block shed or some spare office space do you?

>>56216334
>but the prices are significantly lower due to pharma companies being told to fuck

>>56223591
On the order of $1M. Do you have any idea how much is made running MRI scans every year? Do you have any idea how long one of these will run for? Do you have any idea how many scans one can do per day?
The issue, as you almost touch upon, is the rate of diagnoses arising from the scans. Fortunately, high throughput and automated analysis technologies are being developed to open that niche.
In a public healthcare system, you trust the government (of all people!) to do the right thing an innovate in these spaces. In a private healthcare system, economic necessity precipitates innovation.
The global public healthcare system is carried by innovation in the private sector, this is undeniable. That's why the vast majority of recent advancements in these technologies has not come from private funding and not from public health organisations.
I repeat, you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

>>56216333
This, cancer survival rates in the US are some of the best in the world. That's a really weird topic to pick for criticism lol.

>>56223255
And my post remain correct, the state is just another customer. You’re free to sell your drug for whatever price you want, the state will agree to pay or not pay for it after negotiating.
It’s not different than any supplier contract.

>>56223706
Because hospitals are very complex buildings that take a lot of time and investments to build? Because human body, it's sicknesses and treatments are a very complex thing and take a lot of time to learn (as in train doctors)? Because becomimg an efficient nurse takes a lot of work practice?

>>56216333
checked but it's 3 years after the lease on the cemetery plot you've been buried at expired

>>56223788
They can't even make an ai that can reliably read ekg, thinking they can make an ai that can do something as complex as reliably make diagnoses tells how little you have knowledge of the subject. While it is true that private sector does a lot of research, so does public sector too in form of universities ect. The private sector also does shit like jack up the price of insulin injections for no reason at all, so it can't be trusted to be moral without government regulating it.

Free healthcare is really hit or miss.
My grandpa died of prostate cancer, cuz of shit treatment. They would just "scrape" the cancer cells once in a while. Norway really lags behind on prostate cancer

>>56218850
>Cars
regulated
>Planes
regulated out the ass
>TVs
>Mobile phones
chinks. deregulated the business right out of the country, good work who could have saw that coming

>>56216657
This kek

>euros STILL dont understand why their healthcare system wouldn't work in america
Imagine if 40% of your country was literally retarded. Could your healthcare system still work if 40% of your country was not even really human, but still had the same rights as everyone else?

>>56216263
you forgot to mention that the waitlist is 25 months

>>56219709
this post is from an american IP
so a paid shill deployed to "fight a culture war" on /biz/
lmao

>>56224281
How do you know?

>>56216263
America already has Universal Healthcare. I'm tired of hearing about this shit.

#1. Hospitals cannot refuse patients.

#2. Medical bills are not collateralized.

#3. You can just not pay your medical bills after treatment.

>>56217446
Its basically cope for living extremely unhealthy lifestyles while dodging the introspection for what activities/habits are driving this
The leftist can see
>avg lifespan going down, oh no!
>obesity rates skyrocketing, oh no!
And never connect the 2 piece puzzle

>>56222938
10,000 people waiting for MRI's with a 1% chance of cancer means there are 100 people getting fucked over by undetected cancer.
Fuck that bullshit.

>>56223863
What sorts of diagnoses? I know a lot more about this than you do kiddo. A significant portion of MRI throughput is for easily identified
and simple problems. If 80% of those simple diagnoses can be automated, you've freed up physician time which can be spent on more difficult diagnoses. It's a matter of organising resource.
It's great for image enhancement of high contrast areas like joints, and it's actively used to great effect in boosting breast cancer diagnosis throughput.
https://med.stanford.edu/bmrgroup/Publications/PublicationHighlights/diagnostic_accuracy_5min_knee_mri.html
https://www.pet.theclinics.com/article/S1556-8598(21)00040-7/fulltext
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmri.26878
Read a book you stupid nigger.

>>56216333
I don't think this is true, I just found out I have cancer, my country isn't wealthy at all compared to some european countries and things have been going on pretty fast, I didn't have this view before but I have no reason to complain so far

>>56216263
europeans are inherently bad people. learned this the hard way

>>56216263
>you'll pay nothing
Lmao fucking american retards.
Even ignoring the taxes feeding our national healthcare systems, pretty much every country has additional fees to pay on performance.
Sure, it's neve going to be the tens of thousands dollas you guys pay, but by the time you hit 60 you're likely to spend a few k every year in medical care.
It's better than what you have, but free it is not.

>>56216263

>>56216263
hmm

>>56224311
What happens if you go to usa for a treatment, you get out of hospital fuck off and dont pay anything? no consecuences at all? only a ban for entering USA? of course if you're stranger/alien/foreign they gonna make you pay some money upfront, but in case that you have some debt left nothing happens?