/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>56139473
Only retards rent.

he fell for the "date the rate" meme. bring a lawyer to the closing in case they try to jew you in some unexpected way

>>56139473
You are in a no win situation stop denying reality. But you can be in a no win situation owning and living in a house you like and get raped financially or you can be a rent faggot forever and bc a lol so get raped financially. Your choice boy.

>>56139499
Lender is a family friend, could have locked in a 30 year at 7% a couple weeks back and blew it, been waiting waiting at 7.125 for it to go back to 7, now it's at 7.25, worried by weeks end it's gonna be 7.75.

>>56139507
Yeah, actually typing the situation out and realizing I'm fucked all sorts of every which way makes me thousand mile stare accept it.

>It's a /biz/ buys the top episode
Classic.

>>56139532
This, two of my financially retarded friends both bought houses with 5% down payments this year.

>>56139541
Is it better that I'm putting 20? I can could see it being worse if shit really hits the fan.
>>56139532
Yeah feels great to buy high, but we've been saying this since 2018, so what the fuck is going on

>>56139549
Yeah it's better if you're putting 20% down, your payments will eventually become more manageable relative to your earnings but be prepared to be house poor for a few years.

>>56139549

This thread was posted before, fuck you.

>>56139473
the rates arent coming down but they will go up. In the off chance they do, you could always refinance later. I’m betting on a stock market crash in the fall followed by the housing market crash lagging behind 6 months to a year. But I'm no expert.

>>56139580

Michael Burry shorted the stock market for a reason.

>>56139555
Checked and?

>>56139580
>I’m betting on a stock market crash in the fall followed by the housing market crash lagging behind 6 months to a year. But I'm no expert.
You don’t have to be an expert. The “experts” are, and have been, massively betting on this exact thing. Kek baggies

>>56139630
This has been the expert opinion the last 5 years.

>>56139473
>imminent housing crash in the next year
It literally can't crash. Stop listening to the schizo rentoids and Millennial commies.
YOU MADE IT! CONGRATULATIONS ON THE HOUSE!

>>56139473
generic residential real estate is pure bags

>record high home prices
>highest interest rates since 2000
imagine buying a house in this market

>>56139520
>he will pay the jew 7.75% PER YEAR for 30 YEARS

>>56139999
Fucking checked.
>>56140064
I'm living in said bag, better than renting a bag.
>>56140076
Who to say they won't be higher next year, and the year after, etc
>>56140157
Refinance much?

>Buy high sell low

Congrats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjj5GT8qiJs&ab_channel=GeorgeGammon

>>56139473
You vill be house poor

>>56139490
and y'know, people that leave their hometown after high school and have careers. you probably dont know many people like that though.

>>56139532
We are nowhere near the top. This is just the beginning.

>>56141240
Broken clock will eventually be right.
>>56141249
Better than rent poor
>>56141300
Checked

>>56139473
welp, the sooner you lock in your rate the better probably. as i doubt the rates are going down this go around.
did you shop around different banks for different rate offers?
did you compare different rates on the 10, 15, 20, 30 year loans?

>>56139473
Housing won't go up faster than inflation unless purchasing power goes up.

Rates are restricting purchasing power for buyers who need a mortgage, that will not change until rates fall (Fed has no intention of doing this anytime soon).

Fed has indicated that rates are going to hang around 5% for a while until we get some event (COVID, GFC, dot com bubble) that causes a "recession", then they will cut

If the fed cuts rates, those who bought in the past year at high rates can refinance, as mortgage rates are historically fed rates + 2%. Don't expect to be able to do this until 2025 at the earliest.

High mortgage rates suck, however you do get some small tax benefits. A 300k mortgage at 3% pays 9k/year in interest - this is not enough to cover the standard deduction. A 300k mortgage at 7% pays 21k/year in interest, this is above the standard deduction (13k), meaning you will save ~25% on 8k (2k/year), making the mortgage effectively 6.3%.

Rates are important, but make sure you are paying attention to your closing costs - lenders love sneaking in bullshit fees. You should be getting quotes from multiple lenders and asking questions about everything. Title Insurance is the biggest rip off out there.

Even the most doomsday scenarios have housing going down at most 30% more. We are more likely to go sideways for a bit while incomes catch up. The "crash" happened in 2022 when rates rose to 6-7%. None of this affects you if you simply buy a place where the mortgage is less than what it would cost to rent the place. That way you can always walk away and have some idiot rent the place from you.

thought i bought the top in 2021, didn't care. i have no mortgage, but shit looks pretty dire out there. couldn't imagine paying six figures+ in interest over the next 30 fucking years.
they really fucked the middle class good.

>>56142810
Based and own their home pilled

>>56139532
agree.

If I didn't like my house I'd dump it now and wait for the crash. The problem with that is at the rate inflation is now we may see housing rates in the 10% range for years to come. It's possible RE drops 50% but the price stays the same because rates go to 12%.

>all these people worried about interest rates
Why not just pay in cash? Then you actually own your home and your monthly expenses are low

>>56139473
It's only going up, there's not going to be a 2008 this time. The interest rate isn't even that bad historically, we've just had a super low interest rate in recent years. If you don't get a home soon, you'll probably be renting for the rest of your life. Interest rates don't mean much in the grand scheme of things, it's the single family home value you want to think about - it's going to skyrocket. There's no money in anything other than mutli unit for the landlord jews and mcmansions, so that's all anyone is going to build from here on out and it's all going straight to the rich and investment firms.

>>56142882
You still pay property tax.

Homes aren't about "owning" something, rather minimizing your housing expenses.

>>56143250
>Homes aren't about "owning" something, rather minimizing your housing expenses.
Exactly, so why not eliminate your monthly loan payments and buy the house outright?

>>56143250
The fuck are you on about? It's about both of those things.

>>56139473
this is how i felt for the last 4 years

anyway glad I ignored it and bought my house 2 years ago. If youre planning on living there for 10+ years then pull the trigger

>>56142722
If you don’t understand this picture, you shouldn’t be buying a house. All it takes is one event for a huge credit crunch.

My Dad’s secretary owns 3 homes and rents them on AirBnB

>>56143312
Why would you pay off a mortgage financed at a low rate when you can invest the cash at a higher rate?

My rent is going up by 4% this year. Paying my $1100/month tithe seems preferable to fomoing into a 40 year old 4 bedroom house for $500k in my Midwestern county at 7%. I'm giving it another year then reassessing.

You can rent for $1000 a month

Or you can pay $2500 a month on a house. Keep in mind, the first few years your going to be paying roughly 80% of that 2500 towards interest alone, effectively paying $2000 in rent + you are held responsible for fixing and maintaining the property + taxes + tip + dick in ass fees

>>56139621
...and you literally may baghold until the late 30s.

>>56139473
As soon as you sign, your boss says you’re fired. Lmao

Protip: the mortgage company talked to your boss and knows you’re buying a house

>>56143312
More than half of people with a mortgage have it financed under 3.5%, and cash is paying more than 5% right now. You also lose the mortgage interest deduction from your taxes.

Cash goes towards investments (crypto/stocks/bonds).

>>56144466
Thanks schizo
>>56143786
When will this one event happen?

>>56139473
i bought one a few months ago but my plan for a potential crash is to just buy a better house and rent out the current one, it was affordable enough that i could pay extra towards principle every month (shaving a solid 70% off the TIP and paying it off 20 years early) and still save enough that in 5 years i could probably afford to do it all again. i also really really wanted to stop living with my parents and it was either rent or buy, so i chose buy.
as purely an investment though, it was probably a bad idea. but i dont care

>>56144446
$1k a month in rent haven't had that since 2020 its $1.5k for a 1bd sub 1000sqf non roach infested not ghetto apartment near me. even the ghetto ones go for $1.3k a month

>>56149280
It's even worse down here in Florida now. I have no idea where these retards claiming that average rent is only $1k while average housing is $500k are coming from, it's so obviously deceptive.

>>56139499
The bank tried to pitch me an adjustable rate mortgage on closing day. This was back in 2017 when interest rates were pretty low. Are they out of their fucking minds, or are people still falling for it?

>>56148090
Criminally underrated. This is the boomer strat and it works. If you have a rate locked un under 5% or like me under 3%, you should never fucking sell ever, because you are being paid to live in that house right now. If you want to upgrade, simply run a calculation of the mortgage you are prepared to pay, subtract what you currently pay, and bank the rest in assets, CDs, govt bonds, or stonks if you want. This money can then be used to hit that downpayment if/when the market crashes back down and now you can rent out your current house, even to a family member or parent. But because you were smart and have such a low rate/payment, even during a crash youll be able to pay the mortgage with that rent, making you shitloads of money in equity for free.

TLDR; never sell something with actual value (property) for some bullshit we made up (fiat)

>>56148090
This. Keep in mind, you get tons of tax breaks for renting out a property. In addition to mortgage interest and property tax, you get depreciation which is 3.6% of the home's value, and can deduct all maintenance/repairs (never as much as renters think).

I'm renting out a 500k house right now for 32k/year - I deduct 15k in depreciation, 7k in mortgage interest, 2k in property tax, 2k in maintenance. 26k in tax deductions. Almost all the income is tax free.

Rates went from 0 to 7% and houses dipped 10%
Took a deathpledge for 20 years at 1.29% even when I could buy outright
Cash aside for land, loan for current residence

The play was to lock low interest rates and
with cash on hand, then buy the dip.. but dip is nowhere to be seen

What the fuck /biz/ what does today's announcement mean for 30 year mortgage rates? Specifically in the next 7 days...

>>56141271
Ok but my hometown is a metro area of 10m people and one of the wealthiest in the state. I'm probably going to move back once I can afford it lol

>>56154021
>is a metro of 10M people
*my hometown is IN a metro of 10m people
I live in the city proper now for reference, but grew up in a very wealthy suburb

>>56139520
no one who inflicts usury on anyone is a "friend"

>>56139580
>you could always refinance later
I'm to old to fall for that one.

>>56139473
>>56139520
Interest rate is irrelevant. Homes are not supposed to be an investment. Only jews think like this. A home is a place to live and fuck your wife
Don't at me.

>>56157059
Underated

>>56154009

Expect high rates until the bubble deflates.

>>56157133
When does the bubble deflate?

This entire thread.

Source; Trust me bro.

>>56139473
Bro. Don't worry about it. As fed drops rate slowly into 2025, the lowered rates will continue to prop up and stimulate the housing market. 2026 there's a 10 to 15 percent crash as things 'normalize'. This will put you back to where you bought. Refi at 5 and fuck off.
Who am I ask? Check em and know.

>>56157548
Oof. No digits.
Nevermind housing crash imminent. You're fucked bro. Should bought back in '18 you absolute MOG.

>>56139473
Should have bought gold dummy

i have a couple of rental properties. JFC what a nightmare.
today's nightmare. tree fell down. took down a power line. $700 for electrician to repair.
thank fucking christ I don't have any mortgages. I thought I would be smart and park some cash there.
should have bought $400K of exxon mobil and called it a day.
I expect to lose at least 20% of the value on each property in 2024/2025.
Can't sell now because mortgage rates suck for buyers and supply is increasing like a motherfucker.
i think now is a good time to rent for 1 year.

>>56139603
Yeah, like he did two years ago and last year. That sure worked fine. He's brought back his sorry on Twitter again? Can't wait for the next time he closes his account again.

>>56158867
>supply is increasing like a motherfucker

LOL

>>56157162
impossible to tell since it was constructed artificially through the fed, and is being artificially maintained.

>>56153953
>dip is nowhere to be seen
just wait for it. some say these large vampire investment corps like blackstone, and such, are switching to dumping big portions of their real estate holdings in favor of other things

>>56161861
Why? It's land. No one is making any more of it any time soon.

>>56157133
Hey, that rhymed!

last three months of interest rates for 30 year mortgages vs 10 year treasury rate. have to lock in a rate by wednesday. i think 7.25 can happen

>>56139473

You can always refi in 2029

>>56142832
>It's possible RE drops 50% but the price stays the same because rates go to 12%.

> RE drops 50%
> rates go to 12%

You mean the monthly payment is the same?

>>56139473
As soon as you sign the paper, your boss is going to fuck your ass like a white man at a kid’s party, Jeffrey dahmer. The mortgage company called your boss specifically to let him know you’re fucked for the next 30 years and even when you’re signing the papers, so yeah your boss knows he has you by your tiny little nutsack, and he can use your like his own little fleshlight. Hope you enjoy gargling his hairy nuts and asshole cuz shit is real.

>>56157059
Heroically based

>>56164559
I am the boss, adjust your demoralization, bot.

>>56139520
>7%
Anon What the absolute fuck

>>56157059
Dumbest post I've read all day. It doesn't matter if a home is an investment or not. The fact of the matter is the more you have to pay for a house, the less available money you'll have for investments. So in the end it still affects your investments.

>>56165820
>spending more on one thing means you have less money to spend on another

>>56165916
Crazy, isn't it?

>>56144408
yeah, my rent increased 3.125% last year. stacking cash for a house, which is more expensive up front but better in the long run. not in any hurry

>>56165820
It's dumb but mortgage interest is not as big of an issue as people make it out to be, since treasury yields rise with mortgage interest, and mortgage interest is tax deduct-able.

A 320k mortgage at 3% gets essentially no tax benefits, since the mortgage interest amount isn't above the standard deduction. But a 320k mortgage at 7% will pay 22k interest in the first year, 9k above the standard deduction, saving them roughly 2500 come tax season. That makes the effective tax rate 6%.

In addition, if rates were 3%, treasury yields are around 1.25% since there's typically a 1.75% gap. They're not gaining any interest in their cash. However, if rates were 7%, then people are gaining 5.25% on their cash.

This is why people who brag about paying off their home or paying cash for their next purchase are retarded. You should never, ever put make anything but minimum payments for your house, try to put as little money down (never more than 20%), and always take out the mortgage regardless of the rate. The higher the mortgage rate, the higher the treasury yields, and the higher the mortgage interest deduction

Here's a scenario - Billy Boomer has 400k cash for a house. He chooses to put 20% down and take out the mortgage for the rest.

>80k down payment
>320k mortgage at 7%
>22k in interest the first year

Sounds bad, Billy gets to deduct the 22k from his taxes, saving him ~5k (we'll assume with his property tax + other deductions that he's met the standard deduction already). His interest rate is now 5.3%.

Billy dumps the remaining 320k into treasury bills at 5.5%, earning him 15k/year after taxes. His 7% mortgage ends up being a 0.625% mortgage.

If rates fall, Billy gets to refinance and he gains thousands in home equity. If rates rise, Billy's treasury yields rise while his mortgage is fixed. Billy wins no matter what happens.

It's why I laugh when I see dumbasses bitching about "usury" and how you should "wait until you have the money to buy it in cash".

>>56139473
no nigger, fuck you!

>>56141271
>leaving family behind to (((work))) in some concrete jungle
Good goy.

>>56167107
>girl approaches two guys
>"do you own your home?" She asks
>she turns to guy 1 who pushes up his glasses and says, well technically I don't own my home because when interest rates are high it's more economically efficient to..." and her eyes glaze over, but he doesn't notice and goes on for another 10 minutes
>she turns to guy 2 who says "yes, I paid cash"
>she goes home with guy 2