/biz/ - Business & Finance

I like ETH's potential, especially since it's already proven to be deflationary during high network usage (during the Pepe memecoin season, the deflation set in BIG time).

The huge hurdles ETH has to overcome though:
> It's market cap is already bloated. A 20x from here is honestly unrealistic for a very, very long time.
> It's future hinges entirely on it's upcoming sharding upgrade that'll supposedly speed up the network and drop the fees drastically. If they can clear up with speed and fees issues, then ETH will be the undisputed king of L1's for the forseeable future, no questions asked.

>>56044391
We will see tens of millions of ETH burned during the bull run so the market cap doesn’t mean shit.

>>56044419
If institutions and a new swath of retail flood in during the upcoming bull market, then yes, millions will be burned. Tens of millions though, that's a stretch but it's possible long term.

Raoul Pal is right about liquidity. He might be right about that shitcoin generator platform and jpegs. Idk, I think it's overpriced garbage that would be made irrelevant by drivechains on bitcoin, but I could be wrong.

>>56044391
thanks for some solid info here on biz for once

>>56044344
>If we are to 20x from here in 2025
kek

meanwhile reality : crapto is dead ,no new money, volume lower than 2019

what else would you buy eth for other than to go shitcoin gambling with jeets?

>>56044391
>> It's market cap is already bloated. A 20x from here is honestly unrealistic for a very, very long time.
why not just buy avax?

>>56045480
the hello niggers i have avax pepe spammer is basically the only time you'll ever hear of it. it's nothing you see and think "yes, this is a serious thing to exchange money for"

if btc's only going 5x then eth isn't going more than a 7x anyway
if you want to outperform bitcoin you cant pick alts that have already finished their first bull market

>>56045452
ETH is overpriced garbage made obsolete by this simple bitcoin upgrade for 8 years now anon lmfao, its so fucking late for this cope, you had 8 years, eth keeps evolving you mongos keep talking about this next upgrade, price goes up and so on.

>>56045621
rootstock failed because it used the same model as all the ethereum l2s are using, they're just complete layer 1s with "native" bridges.
either they capture users and steal value from the l1s, or they don't. but they don't help the l1's token in any way.

>>56045942
> they're just complete layer 1s with "native" bridges

Eth l2s pay security back to eth in eth tx contributing to l1 security (and deflation under 1559+pos model), they also have built in escape hatch where you can do l1tx to call back eth from l2 so they are not in same universe as rootstock or some pos chain like Matic (current, not zkevm one) so no they are not l1 with bridges lmao

Also I think rootstock failed due no pmf not just being sidechain as you define him (example: matic sidechain not failing on nose like rootstock)

>>56046034
the amount they pay rounds to nothing, and changes are already being made to make the amount they pay even lower with specific data stores just for l2s. long term full stack l2s just cannibalize the l1 as users are stuck in their l2s because the l1 isn't worth the cost.

rootstock failed because there's no need for it. there's no long term future for the evm stack, it's very much a technology of the present and not worth trying to expand anywhere else outside of money grabs like it and all the other evm compatible chains.

>>56046154
and the whole "escape hatch" decentralization l2s on eth claim is almost entirely non-existant, especially when all l2s are heavily pushing their own assets that can't end up on the l1, only bridged assets inherit any semblance of security from ethereum.

First analysis crossing from stocks into crypto, ETH piqued my interest most of all. BTC already had a big market cap and wouldn't grow as much. I literally made a bet on it based on the fact people talked about it on here, and the fact that the market cap had a lot more room for growth than BTC.

Been investing into it since I began and still heavily positive and haven't sold a single coin. Haven't bought any in at least 4 years but it's still 60% of my crypto portfolio.

>>56046154
>the amount they pay rounds to nothing
https://ultrasound.money/#join-the-senpai
15-20% of all eth blockspace consumed by l2s last 6m, 15-20%>rounds to 0 argument invalid
and its up only graph since '22
>>56046154
>and changes are already being made to make the amount they pay even lower with specific data stores just for l2s.
Correct but if l2 usage rise (an its uponly) its just more blockspace to sell and secure l1=bullish
>>56046154
>long term full stack l2s just cannibalize the l1 as users are stuck in their l2s because the l1 isn't worth the cost.

Again bad analogy. l1 becomes chain secure l2s l2s are transactional chains, as seen from trends above
>>56046154
>rootstock failed because there's no need for it
that's what I sad literally no pmf, agree

>>56046176
>and the whole "escape hatch" decentralization l2s on eth claim is almost entirely non-existant

Literally works as advertised -today (at least on op, arb, starkware, dont know about this new things like base for now)

>>56045480
Eth has better tokenomics

>>56045480
catie woods target in 2030 is two hundred thousand united states dollar per ethereum

>>56046200
it's not an "analogy" is the entire point of the l2. if they're not cannibalizing the l1 they're literally not doing their job.

>>56046559
>Are fees lower 10x (and 10x more after 4488)-YES
>Are they filling eth blockspace and paying in ETH-YES
Remind me again how the fuck are they not doing they job?

>>56044344
Why would you hold a useless obsolete shitcoin that can't scale? Theres no need for Eth anymore. Its a dead asset. It was the leader only because there was nothing better but with Avax being developed it just makes no sense to hold on to Eth anymore unless you think all of the worlds financial systems and businesses are going to try and tokenize on a chain that cant scale, is expensive, or requires use of a non-custodial L2 to work simply because "oh I heard of that one it was the first one made 20 years ago". Tokenization may be a decade or more off - but its not just going to happen on Eth. Prove me wrong.

>>56046665
>Prove me wrong.
2 more legs to below ICO price, market already proved you wrong by making you poor kek

>>56046590
i never said they weren't. i said using eth style l2s instead of bitcoin style l2s comes at a determent to the l1 asset price.

>>56046738
brother in wasting time on this shitty board there is not bitcoin style l2, only LN is real l2 and LN uses bitcoin blockspace only by opening and closing channels not transacting. We don't need to go trough why is important for l2 to use blockspace right?
If you mean useless governance tokens on top of most l2s, sure they may detract some to buy them to speculate instead of ETH but in big picture while they pay for blockspace in ETH they are Ethereum aligned

>>56044344
Imma keep buying btc, shiba, jasmy and ETH.

>>56044344
why would /biz/ have to "admit" anything? most anons sold their btc for eth in 2016 or 2017. only the newfags and thirdworlders who jumped on the bandwagon since then claim bitcoin as an identity

>>56047024
now you're starting to get it.
you can't deliver value to the base platform while using the scaling paradigm designed for bitcoin's use case (layered networks) for a completely different use case than money.

they can only play for blockspace in eth, but the amount of eth they pay is irrelevant, its only the amount of eth they burn than benefits eth holders.

it's the economic activity that gave eth value and that gets siphoned off onto another network.

>>56047043
by summer 2017 eth was 60% higher than it was last cycle top against bitcoin. those of us that bought eth early were doing so when it was <0.01-0.02

>>56047882
>they can only play for blockspace in eth, but the amount of eth they pay is irrelevant, its only the amount of eth they burn than benefits eth holders.
https://ultrasound.money/#join-the-senpai
15-20% of all eth blockspace consumed by l2s last 6m, 15-20%>rounds to 0 argument invalid
and its up only graph since '22
We did this already...I can just spam proofs every time you type "amount to nothing"....
>>56047882
>you can't deliver value to the base platform while using the scaling paradigm designed for bitcoin's use case (layered networks) for a completely different use case than money.
Now you sound like you are on drugs scaling paradigm designed for bitcoin's use case i don't think you know how l2s work

>>56048290
also more eth payed back to l1 more eth burned how is this so hard...

Blunder after blunder after blunder from Ethereum turns a man jaded, understandably. You do have a good point and my biggest holdings right now are Ethereum and Bitcoin, but I'm also diversifying on underdogs I think have a good chance at making it in the mid to far future (1.5-3 years).
>KAVA
>KASPA
>XRP
But Avalanche/Kadena is better than Kava!!! But Kaspa is a cheap Eth knock-off!!! But XRP will never pump again, ever!!! Etc. Yada yada yap yap.

>>56048739
Forgot a silly picture to draw attention to my post. Excuse me.

>>56044344
Ethereum could easily become the undisputed king of L1's if they actually solved their issues with transaction speeds and gas fees. It's way too slow/expensive for it to really become the absolute best there is

>>56044419
>>56044438
>BILLIONS must burn.

>>56048739
>nooo eth 2.0 was supposed to get it to $999k a token nooo
retard
>MUH SHANGHAI!!!

>>56048739
>Blunder after blunder after blunder from Ethereum turns a man jaded
the fuck are you talking about? they have consistently increased in value over the years and it's by far the biggest layer 1 as it generates the most fees.

>>56048783
May I remind you one (1) ethereum was four thousand three hundred dollars in 2021? Anon has a point don't be a dense retard.

>>56048746
kava is based. once obsessed twitter troons see vitalik's wallets with some of it they'll buy like animals.

>>56048739

>>56048782
"ETH 2.0" got split into a couple of tinier, much more easily manageable updates such as the Merge and Shanghai bullshit.

We're waiting for one that actually delivers this >>56048770 without relying on L2 garbage such as Matic.

>>56048775
Unironically, yes.
>>56048290

>>56046665
leave it to the avaxroach to completely miss the fucking point of the conversation.

>>56048789
So? BTC dumped from 69K all the way down to 16K back in November last year. Does that mean it's a blunder?

>>56048799
idk and idc i just NEED ethereum to x2 at least so kinetix/kava can go somewhere. holy shit bridging to them and pouring in native tether at the same time was retarded as fuck.

>>56048817
Yes.

>>56048746
Here, lemme help ya with that real quick

>>56048817
This. Both decreased exactly 75% in price and Bitcoin is now being recognized as a viable ETF option by the biggest jew there is.

>>56045621
Maybe you're right idk. It's a premined coin that rewards the rich (PoS). Maybe people do care about jpegs idk. I'm just sticking to BTC and LTC. Maybe you outperform me, idk. I'll still out perform the dollar when they turn the money printers back on.

>>56050441
>It's a premined coin that rewards the rich (PoS).

While I truly think you are retarded saying shit like this and just parroting this 80iq and bad maxi propaganda, I really value positive attitude and and being realistic, I agree market will be arbiter anyway, GL anon.

>>56048290
why are you so hung up on the % of blockspace? blockspace demand is a tiny minority of eth's value. eth burnt is a tiny minority of eth's value.
eth's value (outside of following bitcoin as alts tend to) is almost entirely around people using eth for economic purposes, and l2s can, and will foster less eth usage as a whole and more usage of those l2s native tokens or native fee tokens.

platforms scaling via l2s is a massive crutch and only became the plan when execution sharding turned out to be a massive failure in design.

>>56044344

Ethereuk ETF will never happen. Bitcoin is one thing, the rest are altcoins and will never be taken seriously by normal people.

>>56050757
>and will foster less eth usage as a whole and more usage of those l2s native tokens or native fee tokens.
L2s don't have native tokens they use eth for fees, I'm done running in circles, you clearly don't know wtf you talking about

>>56050562
Dude you can go on chain and see the distribution. Vitalek made himself a billionaire lol. I just personally don't like it but I do admit it has a usecase with stablecoins but everything else like jpegs and shitcoin generation I think is retarded. But cheers to you fren, may we both make it.

>>56051247
>Dude you can go on chain and see the distribution. Vitalek made himself a billionaire lol.
Deservingly so, same as early bitcoin miners.
Eth ICO was public 1year long ICO, bitcoin was mined by few dozen people for months before it spread more.
Only way to reach Bitcoins immaculate conception would be if Vitamin killed himself in early days, bit unrealistic.
Also fairest ico ever because literally everyone was welcome (not like later shitcoin icos or todays VC grifts)
Also I while think POS i superior to POW in any way for sure is not in distribution -ETH still had 6 years of fair mining distribution (unlike any other pos).
>>56051247
>But cheers to you fren, may we both make it.
Same back fren

>>56044344
If you have half a braincell you realize eth is unscalable. The more people using it, the less it works while getting more expensive.
Nothing about it makes sense, I seriously doubt my sanity when I see people wasting time with it or touting it as the next big thing.

>>56051341
Not really familiar with welcome token. LTC is probably the most fairly launched coin that I own. Dollar amount, I have more BTC than anything, but if LTC breaks ATH, I'm pretty well off. Thing is though, what am I going to do? Trade my crypto for USD? So I suspect I'm in it for the long haul