/biz/ - Business & Finance

Janny is a nigger lover.
This is financial advice.

buy (my) oil

congratulations, you're now an african landlord

>>56003761
This has been a thing for a while

Dividends are great and as a whole extremely reliable.

>>56003785
No. They are a pyramid scheme that requires infinite amount of growth to not collapse

>vol getting crushed
>market just going sideways

What did they unironically mean by this?

I love Biden, Russia, the Saudis, and OIL most of all

>there is still a gme general on /trash/

>>56003791
And that’s different from a growth stock that requires infinite amount of growth how?

>>56003792
Good question. I suppose somebody bought data and is trying to send a message. That is being ignored because the ones whose data was bought knows he is right

>>56003791
That's everything (except energy)

>>56003808
taxes.

i've reported a man who preys on exotic dancers and clown cosplay enthusiasts to the Seattle vice squad. hopefully they get this scumbag off the streets.

>>56003808
Same. Scamstreet in its entirety is a ponzi build on a pyramid scheme. And it collapses deterministically as soon as growth of pay ins go negative

>>56003791
We do have infinite growth? Ever heard of brown people?

>>56003813
Not quite. Without demand or lower demand for stuff, less demand for energy
>>56003822
That's wrong. They are no net pay-ins, they are net costs, together with the boomer joining that net cost its over. Genocide of old and niggers is the only solution

>>56003791
yea the entire system needs that but at the point where that becomes an irl not existential problem the yeilds on your portfolio are problems of the before time

>>56003822
Until their population reaches critical mass and they start starving to death by the millions without the support of whites.

>>56003814
you still need to cash out those growth stocks and pay the piper before they CSCO

One thing is certain, capitalism finds a way

>>56003819
This is false and I could explain why using simple math about a hypothetical lemonade stand, but I won't because I'm glad you misunderstand.

>>56003843
Here comes the issue of future assumed productivity and reproduction rate having been consumed over the past 90 years in advance. That's of course also a Ponzi pyramid scheme. It's over, all the pyramid schemes of the past 100 years are collapsing at the same time. That's why I'm in team world wide deflationary deathspiral

>>56003873
You assume likely future consume and yields on debt. Well that's a pyramid scheme. Discounted cashflow is a meme

>+4.18%

>>56003893
"You assume people will keep buying stuff!!! Wake up sheeple!!!"

>>56003918
Not in the amount that is required to service the in advance consumed debt in an acceptable timeframe for the potential profits to out weight the risks. Yeah I'm aware that all the models assume time going toward infinity, which is bullshit. No investor lives forever

>>56003785
Dividends are pointless. I don't want added taxable income...I want an investment that grows faster and I can choose to pull some stock out later

>>56003761
Bidenbros…. We were supposed to fill the SPR at 68$…..

I'm thinking puts on Kroger.

>>56003944
We quite simply aren't going to refill it. Haven't you heard about our military trying to go all ev?

>>56003869
Capitalism is a European social institution and will die with the Europeans.

>>56003978
And who is driving those? They failed now 3 quarters in a row to fill recruitment quotas, same as the police forces

>>56003943
Tax advantaged accounts solve that. The beauty of dividends is that they tend to be reliable. Meanwhile, if a company relies on buybacks to propel higher stock prices over time then you're at risk that a rerating will kill your compounding rate as the buyback slows from 10-20% outstanding to 2-5%. With dividends, the choice is made for you to automatically divest that value. Even if the stock becomes overvalued, you still receive the same dividend on cost.

>>56003990
Define capital please, I'm curious why you think it only started with Europe

>>56003937
>source: my negro boyfriends ass

>Dear biz:
>my african husband and I have 30.5 million in stocks, 80 million in bonds paying dividends of 6%, and a house worth 25 million, paid off. We have 12 children and 24 grandchildren. What can we do to further crush the poor and show off how rich we are while sweetly listening to the lamentation of the zoomers?

>>56003761
this is bullshit. i saw the video and it was a white guy.

>>56003995
Not capital, capitalism: the idea that owners of capital are given power.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/copper-giant-aurubis-warns-losses-062505603.html

>receive metals for recycling
>perform internal analysis and pay based on content
>internal analysis was fraudulent
>lose hundreds of millions
Dividends? The metals market is a fucking scam.
Anyways, the big ones seem to always be copper and nickel

>>56004020
Define capital. For some reason I believe you are not able to give a satisfiable definition that isn't full of marxist moronism

>>56003911
>cashganged through another correct call
teach me to trust myself and be less risk adverse

>>56004020
Not necessarily power per se; but the ability to have more options at any given time.
For example, someone with $10,000 has the ability to legally move to another country with relative ease, compared to someone with just $50.

>>56003761
>>56003944
OIL

>>56004024
Metals, that market was kept alive over the past 20 years by china playing rehypotecization pyramid scheme with Potemkin cities that regularly crashed literally and now figuratively

>Soft landing
Yup, this is exactly the news they've been hoping for all along.

The economy has cooled significantly, inflation has dropped significantly. The sky has not fallen and the world is not on fire.

I don't think we're going to see cuts anytime soon, but I'd be surprised if they continue to hike. Things are cooling exactly as they intended.

>>56004042
So if China goes iron curtain or has a shitty economy, does that reduce the future growth/demand for copper and nickel? The US is happy to do the EV meme, for example. Copper is highly recycled as well

>>56004051
>inflation has dropped significantly.

>>56004052
That's to assume. And ev is a scam that relies 100% on subsidies, now consumed public debt at the cost of assumed future productivity and reproduction rate that is going down for at least 50 years. Doesn't sound like a sustainable model in the short, mid or long term

>>56004030
Just stop giving a fuck. We’re all just gambling anyway.

>>56003761
same guy who posts bbc everywhere

>>56004072
>ev is a scam that relies 100% on subsidies
somebody hasnt heard of oil subsidies

>>56004080
>Stop thinking
>Just buy my bags and coomsoom now on credit
Lol baggies

>>56004085
Router subsidies when

>>56004085
Oil is an energy carrier, capital, (still waiting from the definition from the marxist to have a laugh) that can be used in a wide variety of ways. An ev is consumer good, not capital that doesn't have a demand if it isn't subsidized

>>56004051
rest of the world is pretty fucked as a consequence but euro/brics hubris as been such over the last years that i simply don't care

>>56004086
This goes for puts as well. If you get a gut feeling about something, one way or the other, just go for it. I’d rather take the risk and lose on bad/unlucky decision with the potential to gain something. Rather than just sit there and let my cash be whittled away by inflation.

>>56004098
this is such a boomer take. What year were you born?

>>56004108
i was born in the year hh, brother

>>56004102
The issue of illiquid markets. As long as too big fish with preferences and affections swim along, they are going to eat you in the low liquidity. They need to first dry up and die until it becomes rational to invest bigger sums, else it's just gambling. This is especially true with brokers selling customer data to interested parties, which is a way of income if you can prove it and sue the broker for violating data protection laws

>>56004020
Oh no are we determining hierarchical structures based on who can best deploy capital instead of race, caste, heritage or simple violence. How horrible, how evil. Wait, those hierarchical structures aren't even government structures, they are industrial structures, whaaaaaa

>>56004108
No. Funnily enough ev need energy carriers like oil. So it's a double doozie scam. Evs are like Solar and wind energy as the entire rest of the 90s boomer scams, scams

Roast my portfolio

>>56004153
You think that is some big gotcha, but it isn't. It actually makes things incredibly more efficient. You deliver gas to the generator, the generator delivers electricity to you, and you get your torque. the only thing that is lagging is the charge time, and that is only a consequence of lack of research.

And you can answer the question, if you please.

>Vibecession

>>56004165
You have an extremely child like understanding of an economy. And explain why should I buy a consumer good like an ev if I can buy a gas powered vehicle and have a more reliable way of moving then being dependent on subsidized reloading stations. I know we should let the state make laws against gas powered vehicle, so you can run your scam

my stock did a cup today.

what does it mean when the biggest (buy) volume of the day is right before close. isnt that bullish?

What does /smg/ normally do on a friday night? I was planning on getting some mcd for dinner and and screaming into the mirror how much i hate myself

OIL? OIL.

>>56004187
I know that boomerisms like yours only stifle growth. these technologies may not be prime today but they are possible and only being cockblocked by dinosaurs like you. retard. just die already.

>>56004178
VIbes is just the zoomer word for sentiment

>>56003792
That's my fault. I bought UVXY because the bussy looked ripe for the taking but the jews got me again.

>>56004216
Carbon neutral gas will kill EVs

>>56004216
Oh an indafutur pitch if you gibs moneys now scam.
Funny that you call me a boomer, as it has been now for 50 years been only boomers letting themselves scam by the its da futua pitches, that never deliver and only cost people in the future due to their prefered mechanic of scam, socialization of capital risk based on assumed future productivity and reproduction rate. I'm not a boomer and not falling for itsdafutua pitches

>>56004162
XOM is overpriced relative to certain other oil stocks.
BRK.B has weaker voting rights than the A class, which may be important when Buffett gets his heart attack in 2 years.
ABR feels like a blowup waiting to happen.
CLH is headquartered in Massachusetts.
MSFT is pretty expensive.
SMCI is an actual bubble stock.
BCC was a rec from CRBP.
ADM is boomer farming shit. Bad ROIC, weak returns.
No complaints about ATKR or DECK. Those are solid.

>>56004227
no it wont, gas power doesnt even come close to electric power. every single manufacturer is moving toward electric motors.
>>56004235
boomers have been only stifling growth in ev sector. you are just a retard obstructionist.

>>56004250
Get a load of this faggot. I bet he doesn't even own a single OIL share.

>>56004250
Bullshit. Boomers through public subsidies have bankrolled the entire green energy scam that never delivered in 40 years and only cost money
Gtfo scammer and if your ev is so great, take the capital risk yourself, if it works and you can compete with gas powered vehicles, you are certainly going to make a profit

>VIX 13
>Oil $96
>Wheat $595
>DXY 104.3
>US30Y +2%

>>56004250
You are such a retard. Your electricity is the result in 90% of the cases of either gas power generator, natgas, a side product of oil production, or powered by oil generators

My aftermarket doin a lil sumthin

does this all look right?

10000 AGNC shares
$1.44 dividend per share

$14400 a year

nondividend distributions
10000 x 0.770580 = $7705.80
not taxed

section 199a dividends
10000 x 0.669420 = $6694.20
only 80% taxed

only have to pay taxes on $5,355.36

>>56004203
smoked weed, watched sports and gonna go sleep at some point.

>>56004162
ADM has the worst chart. tighten your stops on it.

>>56004203
going to work

>>56004317
>The power of divi ponzis
Lol

>>56004261
>Average no oil shareholder.

>>56004317
Looks correct, but remember that the 80% is hit with short term gains tax, and also the 50% thats non-taxed only exists because it's tied into book value losses. Considered return of capital. AGNC holders in 2022 watched their shares decline in value from $15 to $10, while attaining $1.44 in divvies, half of which was taxed at short term gains rate.
Decide for yourself whether this is a good deal.

>>56004356
You are aware, that opec has cut production now for 2 years straight each meeting and the price, outside the Russia specmilop is flat. I wonder why, could it be that demand is kind of gone?

>>56004187
If you have moving water, sunlight or wind you can charge your ev off grid. A diesel engine can run on sneed oils but you need a farm, refinery, etc.

>>56004367
>>56004346
I dont care about the stock I am only using it as a placeholder to understand section199a and nondividend taxes

>>56004249
>CRBP
what is this?
and ABR has pretty good books, Been in it since it was around $5
I do not look at charts, I look at balance sheets.
Whats wrong with Massachusetts?

>>56004371
Those are not reliable sources that can be adapted to demand. best example. Germany has nearly 50% "renewable energy" with the result, that on a sunny and windy sunday afternoon they have to pay Austria about 30 cent a kwh to take that energy so the German grid doesn't blow up and Austria can power its hydroelectric pumps, to, in the evening, when the sun is gone in Germany and people watch tv and switch on light, sell the energy at 40 cent a kwh back to Germany. Resulting in Germany having the highest electricity prices in the world. And when on monday the sun doesn't shine with little wind, Germany has to start the coal and gas generator

>>56004371
Approximately how long would it take to charge my cybertruck using a consumer windmill

>>56004368
Price is looking great to me considering the companies I own have a breakeven price of 25-35$ bbl and are generating tons of free cashflow and yielding +10% in dividends per annum.

>>56004321
Anon, you don't believe in TA do you?z
On second thought When I look at BCC and ADM balance sheets they do not look to good.

>>56004427
Yeah at the moment looks great, it's front running the October meeting reduction and Russia having already front run the export reduction. Not sure how sustainable as demand for the industry world wide remains stagnating to declining

>>56004414
Hydro is one of the best power sources there is, even for base load. If you have a river nearby you are all set. Yeah, I know Germany is retarded, we have the most expensive energy on the planet and cucked out of nuclear.
>>56004419
Probably less than it takes to grow rape seed and process it into oil.

My portfolio went from 39k, to 62k this year. Thank you energy.

>>56004449
Crude oil demand remains relatively stable and growing absent any lockdown events.

>>56004261
im actually heavy XLE, dear retard. doesnt mean I cant identify macro trends.
>>56004263
>>56004277
retard boomer

>>56004465
Hydro to work on a national economic level requires mountains. You can't run hydro in the Netherlands

>>56004465
The only issue with hydro is short term ecological damage. But that is a small cost. Also long term, technically, if it isnt maintained. Think China 3 dams or whatever. Hoover is probably safe

>>56004411
Honestly your portfolio is pretty decent. You asked for a roast.
Did you buy ABR in 2020? That was a good time to get into all those mreit stocks, while a few were facing forced deleveraging. My concern is that we may face another similar drawdown soon, although I haven't looked at ABR specifically. There are worse names.
>who is CRBP
regular pajeet poster. BCC is fine but I'm not sure there's much short term upside left.
>Whats wrong with Massachusetts?
too many massholes.

>>56004477
Do facts hurt chang? How about those unsold ev that got destroyed by el niñovmaking the Yangtze go weeeee
>>56004476
Then we have different numbers. Chinas demand is stagnating, Europes demand is stagnating, the US sees also stagnation. Only India is massively buying.

>>56004427
I sure would hate myself if I didn't go all in on oil when it was -40 a barrel, boy am I sure glad I definitely did that (and not just thought about it) otherwise I sure would fucking HATE MYSELF

>>56004497

>>56004497
complete non argument

>>56004515
That's a stagnation with two years of production reduction. I mean if you made profits good for you

>>56004508
You'll get another opportunity.

ICCT ICCT ICCT
BUY BUY BUY
NOW NOW NOW

>>56004529
It remains a fact that all the renewable energy scams only cost money and whenever the subsidies were reduced the companies engaged went bankrupt, because nobody with a shred of risk awareness is going to take the capital risk to pay for tech of which everybody with two working braincells knows its shit as it can't be adapted to changing demand

>>56004508
Technically spot was $20/bbl, you'd only get the -$40 price if you had a literal oil tanker in Cushing Oklahoma to pick it up. But yeah $20/bbl would've been pretty good too.

>>56004496
You say SMCI is a bubble stock but it passes some good financial filters

>>56004478
Obviously it doesn't work everywhere. But if you can it's top tier.
>>56004479
I guess but if you're just trying to charge your car during the zombie apocalypse or whatever it won't do much damage. In that case it's just a turbine or water wheel or something like that. If you are smart about it and prepared and really need to, an ev is pretty good for off grid use. I'd prefer it over a diesel.

Glad unemployment is finally going up, people need to stop working until Jpow cuts rates.

>>56004552
nigger, oil subsidies have only ever increased and are multiples of ev subsidies. you are fucking brainwashed and completely tilted. I invite you to look up the subsidy numbers and then come back here and argue who needs cutting. until then, please fuck off.

>>56004591
Absolutely, and if you have retards like Germans as neighbors, its even profitable to let the pumps pump the water up the mountain and just let it come down without the generators on for a nice profitable aesthetic waterfall German consumers paid for

>>56004622
I fucking hate this country.

>>56004621
You really don't get it, it's a difference to subsidies capital production (the pumping of oil out of the ground) vs a subsidy of a consumer good that unironically needs oil to generate electricity so it works. Evs are a scam, as the subsidized oil could just power a gas vehicle directly without having to jump through 10 unecessary loops

>>56004643
No one burns oil for electricity ant even Germany will go back to nuclear within a decade or two because it's alternativlos, assuming you don't want to go full Amish which maybe isn't so bad.

>>56004636
Gtfo. There is really no rational to stay in Germany and pay taxes to the scammers

>>56004581
I meant by buying oil companies all of wish were HEAVILY oversold, XOM bottomed at like $25

>>56004665
Natgas generators, natgas often a side product of oil production. And yes, I hope for you that Germany hangs the green and CDU as SPD party members, genocides the imports and reverses everything the scammers paid by US billionaires tried to fuck your country over

These market makers...
They are like ghosts, always hiding in the shadows, hiding behind proxies and lies...

>>56004665
>Germany will go back to nuclear
1. That isn't as easy as you make it out to be and 2. Germany are thoroughly brainwashed to be anti-nuclear

>>56004701
They are like stranded whales desperately looking for a puddle in the dry sandbox that is the stock market ponzi before dying and blowing up from gas building inside of them

>>56004679
Gibs are pretty good. I don't pay taxes. Taxes pay me.
>>56004694
God, I wish.
>>56004711
When things become too unbearable sentiment will change. It's already starting.

>>56004711
1€/kwh is going to wake even the last germ up from his late 90s slumber when the entire industry relocated to Poland, Austria and Hungary and tax income went to Botswana levels

>Up and up
>Once the algos have chosen a direction, there's no stopping it

>>56004728
That's the most rational thing one can do in Germany for now, beside fleeing the country before the socialists try to build another wall to prevent it. May the pyramid scheme blow up before they make the republic flight paragraph again and shoot people trying to flee

>>56004718
Market makers worked from the shadows for years, shaping futures, manipulating trades, controlling financial reports, retail traders went broke as they played their game...

>>56004762
Not all of retail. Some are laying out bait and trying to guide the whales deeper into the sand to feed of them

>>56004434
yes i do. thats the most natural way for me.

it looks like its topping. which means it can roll over and go down

>>56004470
keep going like that and you will be called big oil

oil better not correct tuesday

I don’t appreciate Jon Rocker

>>56004589
I don't know enough about it to say with complete confidence that its bullshit, but it went relatively nowhere for 15 years and then suddenly 5x YTD syncing up perfectly with the AI bubble and now I'm seeing random pumpers shill it for the first time ever. To me that screams bubble.
There was growth. Will it continue? Will shareholders ever see anything?
If you looked into it and trust it then go for it, but those types of plays are not for me.

>>56004780
wti will correct!

>Just breathe, just relax, it'll be okay
>I've got my money on things goin' badly...
>Got a history of stories ending sadly
>Still hoping that the fire won't burn me
>Just one time, just one time!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lKJDmK08UU

>>56004478
>make a really big hole near the ocean
>build a dam in front of it
>???
>profit

>>56004780
It will correct... To the upside!

>>56003761
This story is bull. It's a misteak. I won't be cowed.

warners bros down 10% in one day. slick deal for tuesday?

>Futures

>>56004803
I don't think you understand the implication

>>56004266
Don't worry, Black Tuesday will spare you if you sell now

>>56004643
the more I talk to retards like you the more I understand the (maintained) bull case for tesla. it isnt all about personal vehicles, retard. there is efficiency to be gained across the board.

>>56004814
Salt water is no good for the generators, I don't want to imagine the maintenance costs from replacing corrosion damage. Would need to include a desalting plant, but else, good idea actually, find investors and pitch it, might even be able to get subsidies as such a project certainly generates sustainable profits in a decade or less, unless deflation and depopulation hits too hard.

>>56004857
There is non. The only case for evs is, if by some top down authoritarian communist law making the competition is destroyed, and even then with the current tech, evs cannot compete in reliance, efficiency and cost effectiveness with gas powered vehicles. evs are a still birth pushed with drooling pitches about da futua to retarded boomers. It's a scam and a grift

>>56004880
>evs cannot compete in reliance, efficiency and cost effectiveness with gas powered vehicles
in only so much as long as the oil subsidies remain intact, and even then only maybe. faggot. Your empirical 'cannot ever be' just shows how retarded you are.

>>56004838
already priced in

>>56004894
Oil can be used for more than just driving from a to b, where evscam is a consumer good that requires subsidies for the consumer good itself, subsidies for the infrastructure, subsidies for the grid and subsidies for the energy carriers to produce the electricity. Its a pure scam that makes logically no sense at all

>>56004918
>evscam
>consumer good
this is you reducing the technologies used in ev's into single products. and that is why you are a retard.

>>56004901
Shit I do business with some of those companies. I used to work at one of them

>>56004919
Yeah that's all ev is, the tech in evs is worthless for a national economy. Your bag must be giant, or you are really brainwashed. I wonder why you have yet tried the muah co2 pitch

>>56004934
>the tech in evs is worthless for a national economy
if that was true why would we be developing it?
>Your bag must be giant, or you are really brainwashed
or maybe you are actually lol. right wing retard.

>>56004942
Because a few drooling kumbaya 90s boomer investors got scammed and politicians got bribes.
There is no worthwhile tech in ev, else somebody would be willing to take the capital risk themselves and develop, which isn't the case.
Define right wing please

>>56004954
people are taking the capital risk to develop it though what the fuck are you even talking about

>>56004966
No. EV is one of those "techs" that depend for production as R&D nearly 100% on subsidies.
And please define right wing, I want to know if I talk to a brainwashed drooling retard or somebody that can be taken serious

>>56004928
Haha this faggot used to work at Zumiez

Bullish on CLF.

>>56004973
Nearly forgot, EV sales also depend 100% on subsidies, as Germany again showed. No subsidies, no sales

>>56004973
you're comparing apples to apples buddy. you're saying a company like tesla is shit for accpeting companies while also saying something like chevron isn't shit for accepting subsidies. you don't even understand how much of a nigger you are.
and right wing as in stifling progress.

>>56004997
>accpeting companies
accepting subsidies

>>56004997
I go mostly from sales to be honest. Ev isn't selling. Nobody wants an ev. The majority of sales in Germany are b2b where the German taxpayer pays 75% of the price for some company buying an ev. Btw I shorted vw the moment they announced that they stop gas powered to focus on ev, the share is non stop tanking
>Stiffling progress
That's not a definition so I talk to a drooling retard. Consider yourself ignored

>>56005015
>nobody wants an EV
the model Y and model 3 are both in the top 10 selling cars in america, dear retard.

hey fags, I'm about to buy a 6500sq.ft. plot of land for $80k, and I want the owner to reduce the price some $5k.
what's a good bullshit argument for that?
I'm thinking of telling him that I have enough money to pay that sum + other costs and so that's my offer. what else could work?
pretty sure the owner is desperate for some cash... but he already told me the price is final.

When I tell you you are ignored and not worth my time then you are ignored

is that why you still replied

>>56004903
>already priced in
This is the biggest cope of decade. Nothing is priced in aside from delusion and market manipulation.

>be up on the trade
>think it will break support levels instead of selling
>it bounces off vwap
>hold on until liquidated
Second time I did this in a week. If I sold I would be a genius, now I’m just a dumb fuck gambler

>>56003761
>>56003775
Does that car run on URANIUM ?
'................................-U
'................................-U
'................................-UEC
'................................-E
'.................................C

Is there a humongous BULL riding on URANIUM
coming to a market near you ?

>>56004250
>gas power doesn't even come close to electric
*makes it winter*
heh, nothin personnel, kid

>>56005071
>does a couple years of research
>massively outperforms the years of research done on gasniggers
heh, nothing personal kid

>>56005068
Imagine a car with a nuclear fuel reactor. It would run more sustainable than some toy car that needs a re-charging every 150km for 4 hours but I wouldn't trust the general public driving with nuclear fuel reactors around

>>56005031
>>56005076

>>56005080
>electric? Nah
>nuclear? fuck yeah bro
you fucking retards crack me up lmao.

>>56005068
Uranium Kings.....thr fire rises

>>56005079
What do you mean by "outperforms"?

>>56005092
now look at the research done on Diesel vs lithium ion.

>>56005092
>Battery dies every 500 recharges
>Costs as much as the toy car to replace
>Takes weeks to be build in
>Electronic of the car needs a complete reprogram
Vs
>A hammer

I honestly fucking hate this market. Can’t get a single red day this week, despite the market fucking double topping.

>>56005098
Huh?

>>56005102
or, alternatively
>100+ years of innovation (diesel)
>les sthan 50 years of innovation (lithium ion)
>>56005113
I cant believe any of you give financial advice.

>>56005107
Vw is non stop tanking since the ev announcement and the end of subsidies for private buyers of ev toy cars. The vw evs are unsellable

>>56004928

>>56005088
Source ?

>>56005089
KING

>>56005126
source is here: fuck yeah nuclear >>56005126 fuck no electric >>56004934

>>56005126
>>56005130
I misquoted but this guy is pro nuclear but anti electric cars. you can find it. talk about absolute retards. Some people ITT take financial advice from people like him. unreal.

>>56005125
A 14er... that's an old save

Stop youing me retard that can't define right wing. And yes that is my way to find out if I talk to mongoloid brainwashed by a marxist "education" system that screams unironically nazis at church goers, believes that nazis were right wing and can't be taken serious to have a real discussion with because he got fucked in the head by propaganda

>>56005135
correct. i have lots of really fuckin old saves i actually just scrolled thru old stuff i remembered i had that specific photo for a reply

>dxy way up
>10 yr way up
>high unemployment yet higher payrolls
>vix way down
huh?

>>56004928
based former Kroger employee

>>56005163
you know you define yourself as right wing, dont play dumb with me. the fact that you wont even admit to it is why your shitty little movement has its dick in the dirt anyway. EV's are taking over, trucks are becoming EV's, you will eventually buy an EV. Faggot.

>>56005173
It's funny. Somebody hunted my 2x vix future position exactly to the cent stop loss today

>>56005183
how is that possible when vix is so derivative?

>>56005173
Extreme stagflation is the only answer. Corporate earnings and rates are expected to go up nominally due to inflation while the dollar remains relatively strong compared to other countries

>>56004954
You can’t really ignore retards like this in a boomer era. They have all the money supply. They have their pension funds invested in ESA and every environmental hypocritical bs there is going.
>>56004942

EV’s were always considered shit, since 1880, they are shit, but if the Euros start getting hydro-EV’s right i might buy one in ten years time.

>>56005187
That's what I'm wondering as well. And my suspicion my broker sells my data, because the 30 day spx future is so completely illiquid that somebody can easily manipulate the vix atm

>>56005170
What's the oldest you have?

>>56005190
>EV’s were always considered shit, since 1880
yeah imagine if we had 145 years to improve. production ev's gap production gas cars and the only thing that makes a difference is time between tank fill. as soon as science can close that gap, its over for gas chuds.

>>56005134
https://jalopnik.com/the-longest-vehicle-ever-was-a-trackless-overland-trai-1850539752

Not unheard of ?

>>56005198
Ford made both models one sold one didn’t because one group doesn’t understand basics physics.

>>56005190
Boomers are done. Their time is over, they are cashing out and that's a good thing, because all the "its da futua" pitch scammers are going to have a harder and harder time to find somebody stupid enough to bank roll them, that's beside the pyramid schemes likely crashing with them leaving the market and making the pyramid schemes unsustainable. So I keep ignoring them

>>56005183
It was me. I manipulated SPY and VIX. Better luck next time.

>>56005196
i dunno so dumb gifs like this are over decade old saves. but i prolly have much older stuff on another pc

>>56005205
im not sure what your point is. are you for or against ev's?
>>56005207
or because one group had lobbiests and eventual massive subsidies preventing research into the more efficient method. or did you forget about that part?

>>56005217
Faggot

>>56004371
only if you invested enough oil in your solar panel creation/wind turbine (you know...all the machine to extract your mineral for example) and for batteries. KYS you re already too far in stupid land to come back

>>56005222
Reported for antisemitism.

I should probably just buy SPY right?
Stock picking has historically been shit, even for people who are professionals

>>56005222
It's open again btw, I know I'm right and the September contract is going to melt faces. So thanks for the cheap re-entry point

I hate this place.
See you guys tomorrow

>>56005173
DXY is up because other countries have higher inflation. This is a relative metric, US dollar being the least losing currency. There can also be temporary DXY pumps/dumps related to daily flows which tend to more directly impact US stocks.
10Y is a nominal yield. Real yields are also up after being suppressed for a decade, which was a big factor suppressing stocks into what have cumulatively been flat nominal returns over the last 2 years despite high inflation.
Wages are nominal. Total employment depends on total working age population size, which grows over time.
VIX is made up bullshit.

Hope this helps.

>>56005249
dont come here tomorrow.

>>56005056
your reply was priced in

>Ask ChatGPT how to make delicious chocolate brownies.
>First of all it's important to note the historical associated problematic term "brownies", this term has been used in extremely hateful ways that could result in psychological damages of minority groups and you should always keep in mind being white is very bad and delicious is subjective saying chocolate brownies is delicious implies African mud cakes are not delicious
>5000 words later...
>Remember ovens are extremely hot and you should take great care when making anything in a oven

WTF it never told me the recipe? Tell me the recipe you stupid AI.

>I am sorry if there was any confusion, saying something is "stupid" is extremely problematic
>2000 words later still no recipe

So this is the power of AI.

>>56005251
>VIX is made up bullshit.
TAKE THAT BACK
i lube my little volatile vix

>>56004145
I like capitalism, I'm European (by decent, I live in the US.) I'm warning people that when we go so do our ideas and they'll get replaced by the ideas of whoever replaces us.

>>56005249
I love you too

>>56004029
Money, land, and useful material things.

>>56005278
dont entertain that nigger
>marxist marxist marxist

>>56005249
Have a good night aon

>>56005278
Those are examples.
Definition:
value preserved
Example:
Corn in a silo

>>56005080
You could drive for years on a single refueling. It would be glorious, the problem is, what about all of the spent fuel, and the big issue of car accidents causing radiation leaks, not to mention the cost of all of it? I could see shit like locomotives eventually being nuclear though.

The VIX is scary because it’s perfect for trapdoor drops. The market just opens down 20% one day and fund managers are just sitting there scratching their balls because there was no time to hedge this, and then they get fucking whipsawed

>>56005285
I'd be interested in your definition.

>>56005240
Yes but contribute to tax advantaged accounts before your trading account. Max out your employer's plan. Preferably ROTH 401k ($22,500 yearly). Then open up a ROTH IRA ($6,500 yearly) with your broker and max that out too. 100% allocation to SP 500 funds.

>>56005290
Shut the fuck up you turbo nerd; he answered correctly

>>56005300
Not really. He gave examples. Good examples, but not a definition

>>56005294
I would define it the same as you, I would just also define the guy you are quoting as a complete fucking retard.

>>56005135
lmao

>>56005305
I tried to give a complete list, not just examples. I feel like "value preserved" and "useful things" have a pretty similar meaning.

>>56005310
That was off the top of my head, I'm not quoting anyone.

>>56005305
You are the insufferable twat that is literally a quarter of this thread. 25% of this thread is you screaming into the ether. Just because reality doesn’t sit well with you doesn’t mean you split it down to the atom and say
>*snort* well TECHNICALLY you didn’t state the proper amount of electrons so your argument is baseless
When in reality you know goddamed well what he is saying, and you are just being that guy who needed to get shoved in a locker to learn your fucking place about what it means to be a fucking know it all. Fuck. Over 25% of this thread. Post your portfolio please

>>56005319
>>56005325
you gave a good enough list, this guy is trying to shit test you in some kind of weird superiority sperg complex. you should learn to recognize this bullshit.

>>56005292
The spent fuel could be sold to re-enrichement facilities, but yes I wouldn't trust the general public either driving around with reactors in the trunk, every harder serpentine road would glow brighter than Langley during the Christmas party

>>56005198
>le siensce will magically make a shit technology limited by physics become better, just you wait a few more decades!! Trust the plan!!

>>56005314
Are you lmaoing at the image? Or that it's only a 13?
I posted my oldest here: >>56005196 though I might have others where I renamed the file. Anyway, Windows says I saved it Monday, June 18, 2007, 1:19:46 PM
.

>>56005349
its funny when people make this argument. Are you a science denier? You know that science made your engine right? The same science that is designing the electric one. Thanks for playing.

>>56005360
Your bait is getting worse

>>56005319
Value is a bit different to useful. Value includes trust in something, where useful is more of a practical term. Particular money for example requires trust to be considered useful and capital. But yes that's getting into pedantic levels

>>56005356
lmaoing because a 14er is nothing, 14s started in May 2014

The same science that made the the shot that was given to everyone 5 times and was promised it would stop the spread this time? Or the same science that proved the earth ice caps was going to melt by 2020? The same science that is built on one technology and not another branch of technology? You can reinvent the wheel and create virtual reality. But telling people to wait 150 years for flying jetson cars is kind of hilarious to say at this point in history.

>>56005372
its the booze

>>56005377
Insufferable cunt

>>56005377
Hmm, that's interesting and actually different form what I was thinking.
So cheap useful machinery that could produce valuable things is not really capital when I was thinking it was. And that really lines up with the definition of capital (people who hold valuable things have more power.)
Thanks for sharing.

>>56005387
are you fucking seriously telling me you expect to be running on gas engines 100 years from now. are you cunts serious
>>56005372

>>56005397
If you read npr long enough, you’ll be able to isolate the realities of petrol oil and how it is used to make literally everything, down to plastics. Agriculture and food storage requires diesel. Or just our irradiated materials next to your body and food sources, gaurunteed nothing bad ever came from that. We were running on natural fuels for a couple hundred years before politicians realized there was money to be made scaring children into thinking they can be comfy womfy on the planet if they just give a little more dollars for resources!

>>56005292
>I could see shit like locomotives eventually being nuclear though.
Don't we have multiple serious derailings every day?

>>56005396
If you trust the machinery to produce something valuable I would consider it capital from your perspective. A lathe is capital for an engineer, not necessarily capital for an accountant. But overall we agree, people that hold valuable things that are valuable for them individually have naturally more power.

bump

Moooove bitch

Daily reminder that dividends are a scam

>>56005397
Someone might figure out a cheaper way to make fuel cells than with palladium (or whatever it is they use.) I don't think we'll find a better way to store energy than chemical fuel that isn't crazy hazardous and radioactive though.

>>56005422
Retard. A lathe is a deprecating asset that an accountant could use to claim off taxes this giving him more money to harvest in the event that the lathe isn’t producing. Is an artist with a brush naturally with more power than a property manager with a house? Is a construction worker with a tool set have naturally more powerful than a broker and a laptop? You are a fucking clown and I wish I could be in front of you to look you in the eye and tell you to go fuck yourself you stupid piece of shit

>>56005438
Get out of my house

>>56004997
Tesla is a failing company that is going to be crushed by its competitors.

>>56005442
well, we dont have to store. we just have to find quicker ways to charge. or move. there are alternatives. to say that gas is the -only- way is fucking stupid and stone age, im sorry. Obviously it is todays way, and we can capitalize on that. but we can also speculate on the future.
A lot of this topic goes back to EV subsidies and my core argument is that it generates a lot of value compared to just muh oil.
>>56005449
Hello 2008 auto crisis

>>56005417
Well, yeah. But the locomotives themselves rarely catastrophically derail. They kinda just jump the track and flop over. There’s not catastrophic damage to the locomotive structure itself, not to mention they can be built up like a fucking tank with failsafes in that scenario. The main issue with derailments is what’s in the tankers that are being hauled. The tankers themselves don’t hold up well at all during a crash.

>>56005397
>are you fucking seriously telling me you expect to be running on gas engines 100 years from now
If biofuels succeed then yea. And if not biofuels then my area will be a comfy tropical paradise so it's all upside either way.

>>56005450
Your subsidies are tax payers money that could be used to just pay off the fucking debt limit. Let the free market decide if EV is necessary. Subsidies are meant for stagnating markets like agriculture where if that would collapse, life would perish. Go open a business if you are so clever. Otherwise, you are just parroting the talking heads who are paid by the lobbyists to push nonsense propaganda. On both sides, weather is “oil” or “electric”.

>>56003806
Already bought puts for their earnings next week.

>Futures

>>56005446
I'd say taxes are outside the scope of the definition.
An artist with a brush has more power than a non-artist property manager with a brush.

>>56005464
>Let the free market decide if EV
let the free market decide how necessary oil is then. its a fact that public transit and the lot has been shit down because of oil industry. Lets be fully honest here.

>>56005446
There are different kinds of power. And regarding the term power I must give one Marxist credit for his thoughts on the three faces of power. Power to make decisions, power to set agendas and power to control thought. But you are a brute that is neither worth my time

>>56005476
That wasn’t what was said. What was said was
>people that hold valuable things that are valuable for them individually have naturally more power
>valuable got them individually
This is a business board you Se understand basic fundamentals.

>>56005295
I look like this.

>>56005450
Charging speed is connected to capacity with batteries. So it is fundamentally about storage. The reason it seems like charging got faster is a combination of slightly better storage technology and engineers giving up on protecting battery life and designing things to charge at close to or higher than 1C. As usual "improvements" in consumer technology is mostly fakery and lies with a minimal amount of legitimate improvement from slow iteration.

>>56005458
That's a good point. Nuclear trains would be pretty neat.

>>56005477
>shills Teslas for 26 posts
how desperate is that failing company?

>>56005477
We have. It is very necessary. Public transit is the fault of shit city planners who didn’t account for future growth in the 60s and 70s. Yes, the older generation didn’t set us up for success, but to just insist on whimsical fantasies is utterly delusional. You are asking every farmer with combine harvester or tractor trailer to go electric? Have you even used an electric mower?

>>56005495
but, again, a lot of those 'forgivings' can be made up by research. it has been done time and time again. all it takes is more research. to say it just 'cant be done' is dumb.
>>56005502
non argument says what?
>>56005507
you are missing a big part of history there, mainly the lobbying and anti-public transit part. pro car, etc. but maybe you are a young buck.

>>56005485
And yet I am human, so for you to not acknowledge my existence is far more brutish than my fallible words. And of course you would give credit to someone who stole their ideas. If you honestly believe there is a power to control thought or set agendas do you think people would have the power to make decisions? Stupid fucking faggot.

>>56005507
Even Japan struggles with sexual assault on transit and they have some of the lowest crime rates. Outside there I'd argue it's really not viable long term.

>>56005517
You really don’t understand city planning or zoning history do you? If I am a young buck you are a decrepit fool.

>>56005528
city zoning certainly wasnt influenced by car and oil companies. no sir. young buck.

>>56005517
>shilling Teslas for 37 post
Your joke of a company is ten times overvauled. Probably more, because it has no future.

>>56005517
Research moves you closer to natural efficiency limits, it doesn't exceed them. We're pretty close already so there's not much room for research to improve things.

>>56005531
Even in places where it wasn't like Canada and Europe you're seeing American style suburbs get constructed due to White flight from immigrants.
If you want transit you're going to have to bring back nationalism.

>>56005531
When the original buildings were built in the fucking 1800s and expanded upon the roughy the 30th century, different people from different academic colleges made the planning. And their insane theories put America in the quasi utopia that it is. You need to understand how geological factors and historical fuck ups made a conclusion that only morons would say
>but the lobbyists

>>56005170
I just wipe my hard drive and start over every year or two when my Pictures folder gets too big and it takes too long to find the image I want.

I still have a laptop that died around 2010 with some 2000s images in it that I've never recovered. I don't want to take it to a data recovery place because there's probably a lot of porn in there too.

>>56005458
They would not actually directly fuel locomotives with uranium. They would use Uranium to fuel hydrogen generation plants and THEN use that to fuel the locomoties.

>>56005536
still makin money though. I still dont get your argument here, 3 posts?
>>56005537
nigga what. lifoh batteries just increased range by 30%. some of you guys sound so confident but you really are retarded.
>>56005544
ok but it still was in the places that we are talking about which was america right?
>>56005545
>the lobbyists
yes the lobbyists that shaped the way you view america. retard. and you thank them.

>>56005551
And then one person lights a cigar on the train and it’s
>OH THE HUMANITY!

>>56005551
I think that would be more cost efficient anyway, so you’re probably right. I think it’s go serious potential for rail transportation regardless

>>56005555
You know everyone and everything has a lobbyist? How should the American o person talk to the senators? You get a lobbysist for your special interest. But just because you lobby something for years and years doesn’t mean you ge the outcome that is desired. You are as much of a cunt as that other twat for your know it all attitude as well. You have a limited perception on the integration of branches of works that is required to go into the making of cities and public transport. But yeah, it’s the big spooky lobbyist. You hate oil companies for spilling oil in the ocean, fair. I agree. But don’t go saying oil is bad Becuase it’s bad becaus in the future we could inhale unicorn farts and live forever.

>>56005519
I give Lukes credit for his thoughts.
And yes power to make decisions is independent from power to control thoughts and power to set agendas, and of course the phenomena is more nuanced than the phenomena of capital. The artist with the brush has individually power to set his own agenda and make decisions not over others necessarily, but can be able to control thoughts of a broader spectrum of people like the investors thoughts influenced into what he invests in, making decisions which brings him power to influence the lifes of others, which could lead to influence an organization whose CEO due to his position has the power to set an agenda....
But hey keep calling me a faggot

>>56005566
>you know, everyone today has a lobbyist. so that means its okay that back then lobbyists decided how things go. i'm not a cuck or anything btw.

>>56005555
>>>56005537 (You)
>nigga what. lifoh batteries just increased range by 30%. some of you guys sound so confident but you really are retarded.
30% sounds like an exaggeration to me. I have an electric vehicle I constructed myself that uses LiFePo batteries and they're impressive but I don't remember them being *that* good. I'd have to look at the numbers again...
>>>56005544 (You)
>ok but it still was in the places that we are talking about which was america right?
My point was that it isn't the only thing and the effect is getting washed out by other stuff that seems unlikely to change in the near (probably even distant) future.

>>56005570
>projecting
I don’t even give a fuck about what you guys are arguing about, but that stuck out like sore thumb

>>56005555
>still makin money though
Their margians are already getting crushed
Tesla has zero moat, infact negative moat, since their competitors have 100 year experience making cars.
Tesla thinks the Cyberdork was a great idea

>>56005557
>nothin personal

>>56005574
>exaggeration
imagine if you could do some god damn research yourself
>my point
nigga nobody cares about canada. america leads your little cuck country.
>>56005588
2/10 top selling cars in america (the only country that matters)
>>56005578
didnt read doesnt matter

>>56005557
this has been deboonked. Hydrogen is probably unsafe for mass normal car use but for heavy equipment with specially trained maintenance personnel the high-pressure tank approach should work just fine.

>>56005569
A CEO is a title base Dona corporation. That same artist could be the CEO of their own studio thus making them the master of their domain. I will keep calling you faggot because you are acting and behaving like one. You were trying to intermingle two completely separate subjects in order to justify the reasoning of your argument. Instead of saying,
>well shit I didn’t think of that, thanks for that perspective
You decided to be a nit wit and a faggot. The CEO can also be ousted by a board of directors. You want to study philosophy, try talking to people who have life experience.

>>56005570
You really don’t get it do you? Go back to jerking off. Your ego is too fragile to be learned

>>56005588
Personally I have yet to be impressed with any of the companies producing electric cars. They're all trying to reproduce SUVs/minivans/large sedans "but with batteries" which is probably the wrong approach. It sells (for now) though.

>>56005596
>2/10 top selling cars in america (the only country that matters)
With subsidies and price cuts that eat their margins
Tesla is fucked and you will soon be unemployed

>>56005610
>TIL tesla is the only car company with subsidies
thanks anon. highly educational.

>>56005596
I'm American. Canada is interesting in these discussions because it's isolated so you can see how a similar people and culture on the same continent evolved differently given different rules.

>>56005597
>A trip from London to NYC in 24 hours would require a cruising speed of 144 MPH, approximately 60 MPH faster than either the German Graf Zeppelin or USS Macon rigid airships.

>>56005609
Every car maker from Toyota to Volkswagen to Mercedes is entering the game and they already have 100 year experience.
Tesla is the Blackberry of cars.

>>56005598
The most important term of the above reply was "nuanced" and certainly yes, the ceo could as well be an artist. The artist could as well be the investor. The main point in the reply above that was that capital is a category that is individually dependent when it comes to power, so yes the lathe can also in some way be considered capital from the accountants perspective, as he can use it to preserve value and get himself more power to make decisions that exercise power over others.
But anyway this is getting into esoteric levels of philosophy and the main point still is the definition of capital is, value preserved.

>>56005637
thats what im saying ultimately. im about to buy a new tundra and that shit has an electric secondary motor. everything is shifting electric.

Anyone see a bull case for WBA? Safe to say blood is in the streets

>>56005626
That is a low pressure whole-vehicle "tank" with questionable sealing painted with thermite
it is NOT the same thing as a specially sealed high pressure tank stored internal to the vehicle

>>56005637
They also have 100 years of admin cruft which makes engineering on greenfield projects like this *very* hard.
Again I don't see anyone really optimizing things for electric drive trains the way they could. I think everyone got too freaked out by the first generation of electric cars in the 80s and they're afraid to really try again.

>>56005649
Well, they do that, because its politically mandated and subisdized. I doubt the technology would gain massive traction without it.

>>56005660
I thought that’s what imploded at the titanic?

>>56005626
>>56005660
Honestly who cares, airships are fucking cool

>>56005668
see, I honestly dont understand this ideology. theres clear benefits to adding an electric motor. please tell me why there isnt, otherwise im calling bullshit politics.

>>56005662
>Designer Says The Only Way To Fix The Cybertruck Is To Scrap It And Start Over
https://autos.yahoo.com/designers-only-way-fix-cybertruck-204500651.html

Tesla is a fucking joke. They will get completely crushed

>>56005668
>DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING

>>56005673
Yeah they are.
>>56005674
Lithium fires

>>56005675
Tesla is a joke but I don't think any other car manufacturer is better.
What will kill them is a new company, not one of the old ones.

>>56005684
>muh 1/million
okay so lets do some more research and improve on that
>IN B4 NO WE CANT DO THAT

>>56005626
>>56005673
Also this, blimps are cool and should be used regardless of their flamability. With proper safety precautions of course. Lifting-wing designs are also acceptable.

>>56005688
If it was truly profitable and worth while the private sector of investors would be throwing their money at it. And they are. Through ESG funding. And it still hasn’t produced. You weren’t around during the 2000s when we went through this shit before.

>>56005674
Extra stuff to maintain, extra weight, batteries *really* suck.

>>56005655
They're losing money balance sheets looks like shit they are illiquid. More downside imo.

>>56005686
You think Toyota or Volkswagen have a problem making an EV? lol
The biggest car makers in the world. hahaha

>>56005031
tell him your offer is final. You must be willing to walk away and either he accepts or not.

>>56005686
>>56005675
tesla legitimately has an EV lead of 3-4 years. you faggots can be in denial all you want, but its true. just look at fords pathetic Mach-e hybrid. the cybertruck is for fags though.
>>56005695
you're just throwing things that havent been researched. give it time, like LITERALLY any other product, faggot.
>>56005697
with hybrid cars there arent really batteries. and all of that improves over time with technology. hence aviation reliability vs car crashes.

>>56005702
No he is asking advice for himself not the land owner,

>>56005701
>Volkswagen have a problem making an EV?
Absolutely. Their EVs are dogshit.

>>56005668
And with subsidies breaking away for private buyers due to budgetary restrictions, the sales in Germany took a massive hit already. It's now so far on EU level that they need to try to forbid diesel and gas powered vehicles to make anyone even consider buying an ev. The tech got rejected by the market, and it's a pure communist driven grift and scam that wouldn't survive in a free market

>>56005704
But it has been invested in through government tax write offs for over a decade now. You think Obama in 08 wasn’t pushing green energy then? You need to look farther back into recent history if you think you can just say “2 more weeks” “give it time”. How much time you want to prove we don’t need EV and the world won’t catch on fire because of it

>>56005708
Agreed

>>56005704
Tesla is losing market share in China and Europe and the competition hasnt even really tried yet.
They will swamp the market with 100 different models while Telsla has two. hahahah

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/08/26/the-battle-for-germanys-ev-market-part-vii-vw-id-4-wins-in-july/

just saw some chick wilding out at Safeway because they wouldn't open the liquor cabinet for her
knocked over a massive display of bath bombs, toppled an entire spinner rack of calendars, and then started trying to knock all the fruit out of a produce display
shit's wild out there

>>56005718
I mean, you can look at the numbers in efficiencies in gas vs electric motors. the only debate is how to supply the motors. that can be improved. And all of that research is on LESS TIME than gas. The proof is there, you just refuse to see it.

>>56005736
>>56005736
>>56005736
>>56005736

>>56005739
The proof is there, you just refuse to see it
I.e. >>56005708

>>56005704
>with hybrid cars there arent really batteries
Without battiers buffering things you have two drive trains that both have to work for the car to move so you have half the reliability.
That's fucking terrible. The only people who buy that are buying things entirely based on PR and for them reality doesn't matter anyway.

>>56005725
And the only ones buying those are companies that get subsidized for buying them. When Germany goes further into depression and more companies close shop and flee the country, forcing more budgetary restrictions ending also the b2b subsidies, this retarded marxist attempt to steer demand from top down decision making ends and all those ev get destroyed and never sold

Nobody wants them without a financial incentive

>>56005752
you have no idea what you are talking about, please dont post in financial advice
>>56005745
your anecdotal bullshit means nothing to me. please post some kind of proof otherwise fuck off.