/biz/ - Business & Finance

socialism no matter if done from a neo-marxist or classical marxist perspective deterministically always runs into a wall. There is no society, that is the mistake marxists make, they build "economies" around an phenomena that doesnt exist

>>55706229
They're more advanced than the United States today precisely because they killed off their intellectuals and landlords.

>>55706296
>A planned economy that tries to determine and force demand by centrally planned production is more advanced
when it comes to kill itself, yes

>>55706325
All economies are centrally planned. Look no further than the CHIPS and Science Act in the US for a recent example.

>>55706344
>government investment/incentives in industry == government telling companies what to make and how much to charge for it
Based retard

>>55706344
the US is a mixed economy like every other non-retarded country. free market until shit starts going wrong or a certain industry is falling behind, then the government steps in and subsidizes whatever.

>>55706344
And that is why the west has been in a hard decline since the 1990s when it started to get infected with socialism, still the cancer spread less than in pure socialist regimes.
But I doubt a retard like you would be able to understand the mechanism of the phenomena of being in relation to the world that feeds into the deterministic failure of socialism, centrally planned economic "incentives" and the fact that something like a society can simply not exists and is a mirage

>>55706398
>since the 1990s
you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, america has gotten LESS socialist over time as the new deal era ended.

while ccp did unify country and get rid of the westerners the chaos they caused in the 60s in particular was just insane
imagine china without those lost 30 years until the 90s
look at japan, sk

>>55706412
not really. the amounts of subsidies paid to certain groups by literally stealing from the future of the territory has exponentially increased after 1990

>>55706361
That's exactly what it is. Investment and incentives influence what gets produced. Most of the tech industry as we know it was spun out of the DoD/DARPA.

>>55706425
and does it drive demand of the future. nope obviously not

>>55706441
Of course it does. Look at the increasing demand for electric vehicles

>>55706423
the opposite, it started going down in the 90s and only briefly spiked during the 2008 crash

>>55706460
There is no demand for evs mongoloid. At one hand there is no increased demand due to demographic realities and on the other hand that demand is again attempted to be driven by socialism, by stealing from the future of the territory subsidizing that centrally planned no natural demand "industry"

>>55706472
that is not subsidies you idiot. but hey, your brain was washed by the narratival turn obviously

>>55706477
EV sales continue to go up despite what you want to believe. Every major automotive manufacturer produces some type of EV now. That was all centrally planned. That's how economies work in reality.

central banking and interest rates make all talk of economy and how it should be organized pointless. There is no capitalism/socialism, just a band of robber barons in suits taking over the entire world through both direct and indirect theft

>>55706540
Because the sales are forced by law. That is the definition of socialism and central planning. It is going to be fun for that industry, when the main driver of subsidies for this non natural demand industry break away due to having stolen too much from the future. Similar to what always happens to the "green" energy industry as soon as subsidies break away, demand is gone in an instant

>>55706486
>u-uh government spending doesn't count
did "socialism" only include subsidies and nothing?

>>55706555
>give the failures in politics also power over money and let them try to plan that as well
idiot socialist

>>55706229
They would have been Taiwan on steroids basically, would have created a lot of cool shit (movies, games, etc.)

>>55706563
it counts, but not as subsidies. What would be a more interesting graph would be what industries got tax breaks, easier access to loans and such, how it influenced the demand and what happened when such tax breaks and easier access to loan were removed

thinking about it, the European solar industry is an empirical example for such a phenomena. It always resulted in bankruptcies and public guaranteed loans that had to be written off, resulting in loses for the majority of individuals while a small inner socialist kike circle profited

>>55706229
try reading Adam Smith on rentiers

>>55706562
Central banks dictate how much money there is, where it is allocated, which industries grow and which policy the government should follow. They make all the important decisions, not your "politics". That means the entire world is already centrally planned.
>b-but at least they're private
ancaps like you are mentally handicaped

>>55706229
They also destroyed all their history and culture, wiped out the bird population, melted down all their metal into pig iron, cut down a bunch of forests, fished their oceans dry, and 1000 other things that alone would have been a catastrophe.

It's a miracle that China is still able to exist after everything they have done.

>>55706647
and you mongoloid want to give that power to a political actors? Yeah socialist retardation

>>55706668
huh? the problem is not printing money, not even who is doing the printing, its the interest applied on that money, but ofc a retard like you cant see that

>>55706662
its not a miracle its the result of transnational companies being subsidized by assumptions about the future reproduction and production rate of a foreign territory with the capital being funneled into that socialist hell hole

>>55706700
>printing
The rest of your bullshit is by that word already identified as mongoloid, as the rest of your posts showed. Brainwashed

>>55706714
tell us how does money come into being, who decides which actors get fresh loans, who decides the interest rates, etc. Tell us where the money comes from to pay the interest, if there is a monopoly on money creation?

>>55706229
landlords are parasites

>>55706229
They're still one of the major technological countries in the world you welfare nigger, topkek, they'd be another USA if they didn't annihilate them, anyways, none of this affects pond's legacy so, fuck you

>>55706726
that is the crux with socialism. If those loans taken from private actors wouldn't be indirectly subsidized through all kind of socialist distortions by political central planning and being basically made riskless by putting the risk at somebody that isn't yet born, and likely will never be born, those loans wouldnt be taken out at the first place, or the actor that took the loans would be the one bearing the risks

>>55706744
Kek, you really think they would be another burgerland?

>>55706647
I love how you retard argue around stuff nobody has power over kek

>>55706744
Still a commie infested piece of shit that should unironically be nuked

>>55706746
>nigger just described venezuelan situation
kek, thanks

>>55706761
of course individuals have power over it, and many are taking that power by
not producing children
leaving the territories
withdrawing their capital from the territory
refusing to produce in the amounts that would be necessary to match the past assumption about productivity

>>55706744
>He thinks killing a bunch of faggots made a difference

>>55706746
if i have the power to create money, what do i care about risk? what do i care if you pay back? the only thing i care is making sure those loyal to me and my plans for the world are in positions of power, run all industries and control public opinion. The only thing i care is that the actual wealth (land, military, factories and natural resources) are under my control. You keep thinking in terms of money when it goes beyond that. The unit of account doesnt matter, only power does. The State has the power, but it obeys the masters of international finance, who figured out all this shit centuries ago.
Create money and give it to those who follow your agenda. Keep everyone else enslaved to them by working for these accounting units. Make it impossible for them to ever escape due to interest on money. They're fucking geniuses and you're a pleb still talking about ideology

>>55706866
>power fantasies
typical socialist retard. Deterministically always lead to a rise of shadow economies, separatist movement, corruption, inefficiencies, misallocation of capital, reductions of growth rates, increased emigration and overall deterioration in the security situation of a territory. And you just proved that omething like a society doesn't exist, therefor making the entire base assumption of every socialist ideology logically untrue

>>55706296
>They're more advanced than the United States
imagine believing this

>>55706944
china invested billions into PR and paying traitors in the west pennies to try to propagandize this image. Winnie the Pooh largely failed with it. There is a reason their foreign minister was axed

>>55706902
first of all central banking IS socialism, it inherently plans an economy from a central source.
second, nothing can escape this, no "shadow economy" or separatist movement can deal with this because they use fiat. As long as you use fiat you are under control of the central bankers.
They're bandits without allegiances, and now they have the power to create money. Bandits of old had to steal the gold and safeguard it, these ones can just control all nations from anywhere due to the elaborate legal system they put in place.
Even if you abolished the State somehow, they already won. It doesnt matter if we return to gold standard or even if you remove central banking. All authority figures on earth already bow to them and thats what matters. So whats your solution? you think pure unadulterated "capitalism" is gonna bring forth a golden age? when these barons already control all wealth through direct and indirect means? thats retarded

>>55706383
>free market until shit starts going wrong or a certain industry is falling behind, then the government steps in and
Make legal tender an inflationary paper shitcoin and devalue the labor of there own people by out or insourcing orc labor. This operation is of course funded by tax payer money of recently mentioned inflationary paper shitcoin.

china is demographically toast, but it's a good thing for the world

>>55706980
yes, socialists are group of individuals that amount to nothing more than scammers, always was, always will be, and of course shadow economies can escape this. Be it by using different means of payments or going full barter economy
Central banking might not be ideal, but its worlds better than giving the power of legal tender to a band of scammers in politics that pretend they represent the "society".
>be afraid of le ebin global elites
they are weak, and their organizations are dying while their means of trying to spread their propaganda are faced with the reality of natural demand; media outlets that propagate their narratives are losing paying customers and audience and are kept on a life line with public subsidies increasing the rate at which they lose audience.

Pure capitalism might not be ideal, but a world driven by free markets and no states is a more honest world with less inefficiencies and misallocations

>>55706992
>tax payer money
wrong, assumed future tax payer money, big difference

Some of the economic stuff is determined by politics really. Taiwan was propped up to stick it to the chinese. South Korea was propped up to stick it to the north koreans. Japan was propped up because of nuke guilt.

>>55707014
>Pure capitalism
there is no pure capitalist or socialist system, it's always a mix of the two. nowadays you wouldnt be able to run one without a revolution

>>55707039
>syndicalist retardation
syndicalism is just socialism and uses the same base assumptions.
>revolution
no need, the evolution is natural

>>55707014
>giving the power of legal tender to a band of scammers in politics
as opposed to a band of international jews with no ties to your country at all?
>global elites are weak
they are more powerful than ever look around you. Everyone is willing to put aside all morals, all honor, values and dignity for the mighty fiat. Everyone's got a price and its priced in dollars/euros. Meaning if you can create money, you can buy everyone off. That is power.
>world driven by free markets and no states
was never the case and never will, doesnt exist.
Even if you could remove the States guess who's gonna take over again? people need authority and if no king is present, they will look up to the Pope (the church)

>>55707058
nobody forces you to offer your goods for a certain fiat if you stay in physical and are not baited by bullshit like "digital money" or "crypto money". And the state has by far not the means to control let alone enforce it.
>everyone has a price
no, not everyone
>people need authority
again, not everyone. If you are manipulatable by Kantian slave philosophy, your bad

>>55707054
talking about the welfare state and redistribution of wealth. we already tried what was close to pure "laissez faire" capitalism a few centuries ago in the UK.

>>55707101
worked better than the welfare state. The UK was a hegemon that controlled the 7 seas with anarchists with boats

>>55707120
and it had to stop due to wagie revolts everywere. that's why it wouldnt work now. people will never accept working like slaves with no safety net

>>55707146
no. the 18th century revolts were a function of the crown trying to plan the industrial revolution

>>55706662
you glow, nigger

>>55707146
To be fair, if you were a broke wagie or NEET in your Anglo hometown you’d be recruited to go raid the New World so a welfare system wasn’t really needed. 90% of this website would probably join but obviously we don’t have that option anymore in the West. Sure you can join a “PMC” but they’ll just send you to some shithole in the middle east or ukraine. You’d have to follow rules instead of raiding native villages and taking the local women as war brides.

>>55706229
Don't care they're still atheists would faster live in haiti then some godless country.

>>55707191
Nigger detected

>>55707146
>people will never accept working like slaves with no safety net

and people wonder why gen alphies are going neet

>>55706229
Landlords only hold countries back, intellectually and financially, as made evident by Chiner.

>>55707206
Its not just alpha, the labor market never recovered from the failed coof bail out episode, not because of "slave" conditions, most businesses have raised wages and try to catch fish with all kind of retarded shit, but they fail to find enough people willing to work full time due to taxes and social security contributions, as it is irrational to pay into a black hole with your productivity to bail out years of failed central planning and socialist retardation

>>55707161
>a welfare system wasn’t really needed
it was and that's why it was enventually implemented
>you’d be recruited to go raid the New World
not really, it wasnt the poor who were recruited to those expeditions (that happened before the industrial revolution). they were risky and they needed a combination of rich and skilled people, not your typical illiterate poorfag.

>>55707294
wrong (You) >>55707181

>>55707074
>nobody forces you to offer your goods for a certain fiat
what are taxes
>no, not everyone
yeah right
>again, not everyone.
ok mr rebel boy, what are you 15? lmao

>>55707301
Different anon, but I was under the impression that conquistador types were mostly second sons of minor nobility or soldiers with no one to fight after the Reconquista.

>>55707376
>>55707301
Then perhaps I’m mistaken. I know for a fact though that the Roman Crusaders were mostly recruited from French peasants

You guys are dumb for actually thinking in ideological terms. None of that stuff matters. China is doing decent now because they wholesale slaughtered the class that collaborated with Western interests and then weathered the fallout of that and being a target of the West until they were useful. They remained sovereign. There are sovereign countries and non sovereign ones.

>>55706296
Exactly. They killed off the intellectuals then stole all the intellectual property from the US and Europe. So they get the benefits without the annoying condescending limp-dick intellectuals. Brilliant.