/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>55506206

Why do people choose gold to back their currency?

Will the BRICS currency succeed?

How can US citizens financially position themselves in a declining empire?

>>55506248
Aren’t you skeptical of these numbers? The us reserves have never been audited and why would Russia, China, etc Not purposely deflate their numbers?

>>55506287
Post the “real” chart then faggot

>>55506248
The fact that they do not do proper audits lets me know that these numbers are complete bullshit.

>>55506250
Gold is the original proof of work.
As with Silver, only Silver is most prevalent .
Because Gold and Silver are finite resources, money backed to 1:1 by them is a strong currency because for every 1 unit of a currency there is X amount of previous metal to back it up.

Years ago, every note would say something along of the lines of the value of this note is guaranteed by X amount of previous metal and directly redeemable for it.

>>55506305
You’re right
Russian and chink numbers are far lower

>>55506298
So if BRICS currency is real and gold backed, how will us having more gold change anything?

>>55506250
Also you to make money.
You'll want to look into any Crypto companies working on CBDC's.
Could be a few.
Other then that Gold is instant buy right now.
If BRICS. want to scale their currency they'll have to buy Gold.
Gold will see a steady growth over the years.

>>55506322
>moves goalpost with even more retarded question

>>55506331
Hey nigger I conceded, I do not have any info to challenge that chart. So the next question is: why does it even matter that the US has more gold than the rest? How does that effect the development of the BRICS currency AND how does that effect other countries using gold to facilitate international trade?

I’m not arguing here, I’m really curious about your thoughts on why it matters

>>55506319
Sure. I would really like to see an actual audit of all reserves, everywhere. But what I do know is that the people buying up PMs are the BRICs nations while the west seems to have issues with their supposed inventories being replaced with bags of rocks.

>>55506206
Why is BRICS using Euros?

>>55506287
The US has invaded quite a few countries, then help rebuild by stealing their gold and giving them USD.

>>55506342
It means us has more purchasing power and it can crash the economy of your gay orgy of pathetic third world countries.

>>55506345
>S-sure
I didn’t read the rest of your gay ass cope post, Ching Chong Ranjeet slavski

>>55506322
Well then the USA will have the ability to import a bunch of goods until we figure out how to export more than we buy. Otherwise the East will end up with all of our gold.

>>55506369
>a-America doesn’t have that much gold
<a-actually having a lot of gold is bad because…
Holy shit why are you this pathetic?

>>55506322
Additionally, the USA would have to back our currency with gold in order to stay competitive on the global market because no one would take fiat at that point. This would put an end to our credit cards.

>>55506351
Yeah but then we’d just be trading away all of our gold to take down the BRICS currency. How is that good in the long term? Maybe I’m understanding this incorrectly, what’s the mechanism the US would crash the BRICS currency with?

>>55506349
The us cannot afford another war.

>BRICS launches gold back
>Start a speculative frenzy about massive new gold mines
>fake the evidence
>Gold plunches like the Spanish just dumped Southern American gold on European markets
>China economy crashes back to the Xin Dynasty

>>55506385
>Yeah but then we’d just be trading away all of our gold to take down the BRICS currency.
Kek no
>The us cannot afford another war.
KEK no

>>55506385
The way they did it to take down the USSR was to do what Walmart does to mom and pop shops. We dont actually produce anything this time around so I do not know if they can take them down in the same manner as last time.

>>55506401
>We dont actually produce anything this time around
Are you actually this naive or actually retarded to believe that?

>>55506385
Simply put, BRICS currency is going to get expensive over time. Besides the fact that India for example has a massive issue with black market currency circulating, that India and China have been on the brink of war for the past 50 years. That Russia fails to even conquer the slightest terrain in Ukraine. That China has propped up its economy with fake numbers and statistics and has very low quality build and a culture where scamming eachother is the norm.
It will get really expensive to export materials to other countries. As gold becomes more valuable over time, so do the prices of everything associated.
China is still heavily reliant on export to really make a dent in world economies. If USA crashes, it takes everything with it. I can't say the same for a crash in India or China, nevermind Russia which has been crashing since the 90s.

>55506409
The two most important resources a government can have is energy access and labor. A service based economy where debt is what we trade only works as long as people keep allowing us to use a credit card. Since the USA decided to weaponize the swift system, we broke that trust. Everyone is now looking for an alternative to the USD which is why BRICs is in the position that it is. I wonder where most of the population and energy production is?

>>55506411
In the case of China, they have been building up stockpiles of grain and oil for awhile now. They are preparing for something.

>>55506450
they're probably seeking confrontation.
all of this is just soft warfare really.
Every other country that has ever tried going gold standard quickly got destabilized by us secret services.

>The objective of this new currency was to divert oil revenues towards state-controlled funds rather than American banks. In other words, to stop using the dollar for oil transactions. Countries such as Nigeria, Tunisia, Egypt and Angola were ready to change their currencies. Unfortunately in March 2011, the NATO-led coalition began a military intervention in Libya in the name of freedom….

Free water, almost free gasoline, free health system and free education were commonplace for Libyans under Gaddafi’s dictatorship.

Now don't expect Xi to have any good intentions though. Whereas Ghadaffi had some pride in his blood. Xi just a loan shark dirty low asshole who wants to fuck you over for the enrichment of him and the few around him.

>>55506411
If everything is backed by gold, the price of their currency will not increase unless they start printing out IOUs. They cannot create new currency unless they have more gold to create it with, having more gold will also allow them to expand their economy. In the short term I can see this happening during a fiat to gold transition. Those who do not actually produce anything finished goods/energy wise are going to get fucked as it will expose who actually has an economy and who only have funny numbers on a computer.

>>55506494
>They cannot create new currency unless they have more gold to create it with, having more gold will also allow them to expand their economy.
So they can't grow. The entire debt based system grinds to a halt and we go into recession.

how is russian economy even doing rn
i either hear that they are going to collapse or that they are doing great...

>>55506534
they're still down pre ukraine war levels but up 30% yty

It’s all a scam.
The entire world is going to get molested

>>55506479
Its blatant economic warfare, yes. But you are making a bunch of guesses for things that have not quite happened yet. If a currency can be exchanged for gold, you do not need to have to trust them. As long as they continue to exchange their currency for gold on demand. Also the culture that China has, have not stopped the USA from continue to buy imports from them for a long time. Its really depends on how cheap and greedy people can be and tolerate.

>>55506528
Its a problem every empire has faced when the state wants to create using what they dont have. Its either they increase the tax burden on the population, or they debase the currency. Fiat is great for rapid expansion as long as we have the labor/wages/resources to match inflation, otherwise it just turns into a indirect tax on the masses through high prices. Gold as long as its not debased gives more power to the people as it keeps the state and banks in check, but the flip side is that you are limited to how much you can get a hold of which forces you to either trade/mine/or war for it. It could also go the route of bitcoin where they just keep splitting it up and increasing its value, still makes it much harder for the state/banks from robbing the people blind with inflation.

>>55506528
We’ll it’s not as if they really participate in the debt system anyway( Russia and China). Even though China may meddle in deficits, they are nowhere near the levels of debts in western nations.
>>55506411
Why would it get expensive overtime? Are you referring to the increasing opportunity cost of not growing your economy with debt?

While China is heavily reliant on exports, that does mean they produce goods people purchase. Right now the Chinese receive IOU dollars, wouldn’t they be much better receiving gold? How is their exports an issue?

>>55506607
People are trapped in the mindset that having a strong currency is bad for exporting because your exports are more expensive in your fiat compared to the buyers. This just leads to slavery on the local level as your countries resources and labor are being sold at a much lower price making your exports more attractive to buyers. A gold backed currency will not change this dynamic at all, but will keep the buyer from creating fake currency to buy with.

>>55506206

the us has no currency. usd is not issued by our government but by the "federal" reserve, which is a private bank.

Bump

>>55506206
>based on the trust that there is actual gold backing it up
>trusting the most corrupts nations on the planet to restrain from the tempation of free money
>trust
No different than fiat.
Ngmi
Sage

>>55506893
>I go to exchange currency for gold at bank
>bank refuses
>they do not have gold :C
vs
>I go to exchange my fiat at bank for ?????
>they give me 0.05% ARP on my savings account as inflation debased my savings by 10% y/y
>:C

>>55506206
Russia is long term fucked. There will be no way out. They got kicked off the western currencies and have had to substitute their reserves with gold and yuan. The trouble is that yuan will be devalued so they will take a hit from that and you can guess what happens to the gold price when the Central Bank has to start selling gold to defend the ruble.

And this is just the monetary side, never mind the long unavoidable structural decline in the real economy.

>>55506287
China has had multiple alloyed gold scandels in the last decade for multiple billions in loans. What makes you think they're downplaying their reserves as opposed to inflating them?

>>55506385
>The us cannot afford another war.
Every war the US has been in has paid for itself. Even Vietnam and Afghanistan.

>>55506305
bingo
in a patriotic and propper america you would be able to tour fort knox and see the gold. Of course it would be heavily protected.
And they would cast a giant american flag out of gold and leave it out front
no one would ever fuck with it
because its protected
if we had the gold and were in a patriotic country....

>>55506450
Yeah, austerity measures.

>>55506206
BRICS learned this for 4chan and shitocins

>this gonna be the greatest rug in the history of mankind

It will pop and climb right out of the gate 2:1 vs USD. then once retail is all in and normies have exchanged all their currency this shit gonna "BRICK" hard as a mofo prob 20-30:1 vs the USD

>call it shitBRICS

>>55506975
The fuck do you think happened to Sadam's gold?

>>55506409
>posts ancient graph showing estimated gold reserves
>numbers not supported by jack shit
>calls everyone else naive and retarded when they question it
Jesus Christ faggot. Take your Prozac.

>>55506298
Why not purposely inflate their numbers and launch a currency that is supposedly backed?
Btw wasn't the ruble supposed to be backed by gold already?
Why would anyone trust the BRICS countries to pay out the gold behind the paper?

>>55508028
If they inflate the numbers it could cause a gold run with new nations adopting it, trying to build up their local gold supply by exchanging thier current currency for brics money and trying to buy gold with it.
No gold from central means brics money collapses as it can't keep its comittments.

some interesting happenings for us bricsbros:
>Saudis are in talks to join the China-based New Development bank, aka the "BRICS bank"
>Brazil's president Lula de Silva proposes a common currency to trade between BRICs members
>19 countries express interest in joining the BRICS
>Egypt and Bangladesh officially apply
>It is implied that Laos and Cambodia will (basically China's puppet in ASEAN)

>We want to replace the US dollar
>alright let's do this
>getting into nitty-gritty
>turns out the shitty third world countries that are incapable of resolving border conflicts between themselves can't agree on anything groundbreaking around stable and secure payments in USD, no single member of these """unions""" can be trusted with money
>/bizpol/ posters: DON'T YOU KNOW GUYS THAT CIA DESTABILIZES COUNTRIES, IT'S THE JEWS AGAIN
and the IQ remained in two digits

>>55508576
>trust
It’s gold nigger, there’s no trust involved.

Russian Feds vs US Feds: The Thread.

>>55506439
Both of those are useless without infrastructure and trade routes to actually utilize them. China can put up both, India has the numbers and is trying to get more manufacturing done there, russia and saudi are literally just providing the oil for everyone else. Brazil is just there for location

>>55506248
they also store most other countries' gold in the US

>>55508727
>Schizo: The Post

>>55506206
imagine a currency launched by the most corrupt nations on Earth.

>it will moon in very the beginning for a few weeks 2:1 vs the dollar

>then when everyone is all in the rug and laugh their balls offat you goyim

>>55506674
>People are trapped in the mindset that having a strong currency is bad for exporting because your exports are more expensive in your fiat compared to the buyers.
Yeah, I have to admit that's the first thing I thought of when wondering what a major goldback will do to the forex market.

Essentially the other players are trying to generate a separate set of rules to play by so their fiat currencies are not subject to the whims of the US.

Right now the US says
>liquidity is now tight, eat shit
And the rest of the world complies by necessity to the new circumstances of the worlds base trading pair. With a goldback, that relationship goes away.

I don't think the introduction of a goldback in the forex market will necessarily change anything, what needs to happen for a major shift is people need to adopt the BRICs currency as a base pair.

The fact that the currency is backed by gold isn't necessarily a bonus to your everyday citizen, and it is still subject to policy change, say,

>The currency is now worth 0.01 troy oz instead of it's original 0.011 troy oz value

A goldback will not solve inflation.

What would potentially create adoption is an explosion in gold price. It could certainly cause an acquisition of the goldback, but the largest gold markets in the world are still controlled by the Banking arm of the US, so good luck fighting those fuckers. Those companies are richer than the majority of countries in the world.

I'm curious to see how this is going to go, but at the moment I expect a nothingburger. US is still firmly in control of the world.

>>55508576
This. The whole BRICS going off the dollar thing is a cope for people who emotionally reason about the costs of using the dollar while ignoring any of the benefits.

>>55509166
>magine a currency launched by the most corrupt nations on Earth.

usa & israel?

>>55506248
Trusting the gov, kek

>>55509494
Which benefits are you talking about? The pervasive & insidious destruction of purchasing power or the lack of a mechanism to keep US spending in check?

1.The new development bank currency is not intended to be used as an internal currency (eg china does not want to give up its currency controls)

2. It is likely to be backed by a basket of commodities, not just gold

>>55509942
The benefit is you don't get Saddam'd or Qaddafi'd

>>55509942
>pervasive & insidious destruction of purchasing power
>lack of a mechanism to keep US spending in check
90% of global FX transactions are still in dollars. BRICStards btfo

>>55510007
This is math fuckery, it's 44% of purchases and 44% of sales, which technically counts as 88%...out of 200%

>>55510007
Bro it hasn’t even been released yet :( give it a chance. I bet you’ll like some chad BRICS in your wallet

>>55506248
If chink and Japan sell their US treasuries tomorrow .I doubt all that gold would be enough to pay back

>>55506248
the US gold reserves are well known for being shady as fuck, to the point where germany demanded their gold back some years ago.
China is also know for being somewhat sketchy, russia rides on it's gold so I'd trust them desu

Bump

>>55506206
what went wrong is going off the gold standard in the 70's everything after that point was inevitable

>>55511032

>>55511040
jesus fuck, what idiot would buy premade ham and cheese sandwiches you have to heat up?

Janet Yellen went to China uninvited and viewed to the Chinese. She probably begged them not to dump their treasuries

>>55506411
Total Peter Zeihan level retard take

>>55506206
>Russia confirmed a gold backed BRICS currency
lol

>an entire thread of literal special-needs retards discussing the consequences of something that will never ever happen

>>55511250
Then refute pic related fag

>>55511082
They've already sold off 30% of their holdings in order to maintain the exchange rate.

Exporting titan China doesn't want a gold backed currency, cuz it will implode foreign demand for their exports. Only a Russian could come up with a plan this retarded.

>>55511394
Oops wrong pic just noticed. This is the correct one.

>>55509494
The US will get smoked in this as they are going against this innovation.
UAE and the UK are all in favor of crypto but the US is fighting it instead. CYMI was recently endorsed in UAE and Binance also said they might be moving there.

>>55511250

>>55506206
Never happening. Enjoy your 20% commission. N

>>55508217
Your post made me wander. If I acquire BRICS currency can I redeem it for gold? If not then it's no different from fiat, because they can just print paper at will and no one can verify if there's gold behind it.

>>55509335
>>The currency is now worth 0.01 troy oz instead of it's original 0.011 troy oz value

If they can change the alleged quantity of gold that a note represents then it's no different than fiat.

silver and goldbros.... we are so back

>>55510003
nuclear countries wont get saddam'd or gaddafi'd, at best they might get JFK'd, which is a good thing. political skullduggery needs to fuck off from the financial markets. retvrn to settling disputes the good old fashioned way (shooting political opponents with a sniper rifle)

>>55510601
>China is sketchy but I trust Russia
Dumb nigger.

>>55506206
i haven't seen any actual statements by any BRICS country or the New Development Bank that this is actually real, just rumors that at the August 22 BRICS summit an announcement might be made. this is the closest thing i can find to an official announcement and it doesn't have any words from any government-linked source
https://www.bullionvault.com/gold-news/brics-currency-061320231

Moving to a gold standard just means countries will go back to invading one another to steal that physical gold.

>>55506607
Absolute retard take. Look up the debt associated with the high speed rail in China. The debt ratio of provincial governments. The real estate debt bubble. China lives and breathes on debt spending. That's how they grow their GDP every year. Fuck why are brics shills always so God damn stupid?

>>55506287
oh come on dude. the US government does not lie

>>55513920
>t. retard who trusts the US

>>55513991
>B, but America
Glad we live rent free in your head but that wasn't my point. My point is that China is way more trustworthy than the Russians.

>>55506248
Fortknox is empty, nigger.

>>55513973
>china is bad for overspending and inflating their GDP
>its only good when a country in the west does this

what kind of shit is this? peter grace said it back in the fuckin 80s; the us government spending and its continued path will lead to ruin

>>55514001
>we
lol

>>55514018
Imagine not being American and having it destroy your mental this badly. Still didn't address my point.
Whatever shit country you're from you are forever the bitch of the anglosphere. Don't believe me? You're speaking English.

>>55514005
I'm not of the opinion that debt spending is bad, nigger. That's your retarded world view. But if you think debt spending is bad you shouldn't be glazing China that hard when their entire economy makes 2008 look like a fucking joke.

>>55513973
Sure they have debt, but it’s pretty naive to say they’re even close to western countries in terms of deficits, debt, and growth. Fuckin tardo

>>55506287
The US stole a ton of gold from Iraq but the US also has a ton of natural gold deposits too. Second largest in world I think in Nevada area. The US will absolutely win a gold war if got to that.

>>55507985
He didn't mention gold in his post. He mentioned how you are retarded if you think the US doesn't produce anything. The US is the number 2 exporter and still by a large margin to number 3.

>>55506607
>Why would it get expensive overtime? Are you referring to the increasing opportunity cost of not growing your economy with debt?
The assumption which is generally true is that the demand for gold currency from domestic growth will outpace gold production from mining. Hence creating more expensive gold domestically. The gold has to be gained via other sources other than mining, generally war but often trade too. But the trade route goes into trade deficits. You are importing goods just to meet basic demand then. War route has its own troubles and advantages. Thenother option is to reduce the gold content. Hence you end up deflating the currency and adding in other stuff like silver.

The US did all this in the 1800s. It eventually lead to successive crises.

>>55506206
The USD is backed by the Central Intelligence Agency, United States Department of Defense, and the United States Armed Forces.

BRICS has to defeat these three monsters before real change can happen.

>>55509335
I find it difficult to image them manipulate the local currency when the gold backed currency is there for all to see. Fucking with the local economy that blatantly would result in immediate riots. Also if they did do that, than no one would want to hold the local over the gold backed. I still doubt the numbers put out USA and Co. about their gold holding. We will see the reality when the trigger is pulled on this on the open market.

>>55516682
>Fucking with the local economy that blatantly would result in immediate riots.
cmon man, the USD has been inflating away for nearly a century and nobody did shit. the only significant backlash was BTC. Anything else was either a nothingburger or hammered into the ground by the military industrial complex.

as long as people can eat and live in relative comfort, they wont do shit.

while we're talking about fairy tales, operating under the assumption a goldback actually gets legs, what happens when the gold market crashes? By coordinated attack or otherwise?

>>55509997
>2. It is likely to be backed by a basket of commodities, not just gold
this is probably accurate based on the problem above, but I am extremely skeptical of a commodityback taking off. used for intersovereign trade, maybe.

>>55516993
You are correct that the vast majority of people do not give a shit as long as they have their slop. But in the case of fiat, most do not understand why inflation happens in the first place. If something is gold backed, and your gold is worth x here but worth x+1 there, why would anyone think its fair or even try to trade it locally? The big money will see it, and that is what matters. If the money makers take their wealth elsewhere, the locals will suffer a drop in standards of living which will eventually leads to the loss of what was keeping them from asking questions. The gold market will only crash if they ever allow it to be speculated on, otherwise a gold asteroid will need to fall from the heavens. However, there are a infinite amount of ways to fuck with anything. The market is ultimately driven by people.

>>55506206
Russian provocations need to cease, destabilising the hegemony of the USD is akin to declaring war. If the Chicoms and Vatniks try any funny business they will be vaporized.

>>55516056
>lmfao
honestly this is some funny shit ...bravo anon

>also very true

>>55513718
this is an excellent point and surprised it wasn't the first thing that came to everyone's mind

>yes, IF you can exchange this for gold at a Russian, Indian, or Chinese bank then yes this will rape many currencies HARD asf esp Asian currencies. Def not going to make the USD bleed but will impact it negatively.

>if you CANNOT exchange this for gold even if you need a minimum amount (eg 1gram or fuck it even 10grams) to exchange then this will be the biggest POS rug pull in the history of mankind

>>55508703
Boy I got some tungsten to sell you.

>14 posts by this NAFO troon

Not getting in the trenches.
UGH!!! I know I know!!!!
Im just... I'm just not going to eat artillery in trenches is all

>>55506248
There was a report from very recently showing that china might actually have the largest amounts. They've been severely underreporting yet doing some math on historical records gives a good lower bound for what they have plus they've buying like crazy, not leaving much for others.
This has been going on for some years already.
Here's one link: https://youtu.be/25bIkUCc_lM

>china banned bitcoin thread

who is going to audit it? what prevents them from just lying.

>>55518173
who audits the fed

>>55516056
they're defeating themselves

a gold backed currency accelerates this process, it's indicative of your one track mind to not realize that economic policies that are disadvantageous to the dollar necessarily weaken all of those institutions

>>55506206
Why would China support a BRICS currency when they can push the RMB instead?

>>55519108
Because they're purposefully inviting countries who have a trade deficit with them.

>>55506411

Gold backed currencues only work if you trust the country issuing them to follow up when you want to change the currency in gold and if you can trust their figures.

South Africa is a basket case that can't even keep it's electric grid working.
Russia is very unreliable on figures and in a big (and growing) war deficit.
India is extremely corrupt and unreliable.
Brazil is unlikely to join.
China is the only country that could be reliable enough to make a gold backed currency that people would trust but it is against china's own interests as you can't artificially devalue a gold backed currency for keeping your exports competitive without pissing off all the others holding it also china monetary supply is massive and getting enough gold to back it up would take many years and would make very little financial sense.

>>55519173
>China is the only country that could be reliable enough to make a gold backed currency that people would trust
Haven't they had multiple billion dollar gold backed loan scandels in the last decade with it being alloyed with copper, tungsten bars and other shit?

>>55513818

>>55506248
Yeah.... about those numbers, they're out of date.

>>55519380
crazy how this is the first time I've seen this info

>>55519516
I've been posting it on /biz/ for months.

>>55519380
So trust China's gold backed currency because they're probably lying about their gold reserves?

>>55519558
The possibility of it being true is a massive bombshell for the American empire. We will just have to wait and see, which shouldn't be too long into the future, which I think will happen before the closing of this decade.

>>55519558
there are different types of lying

lying to the american people that we'll beat putin in 2 days is braindead retarded and weakens us

being 200 iq and simultaneously stacking tons of gold, in order to enact a plan to destroy the united states using their own stupidity against them, over the course of 20 years, and being humble and saying oh we so poor

one results in abject failure and one results in victory

why are western leaders nuking us from orbit, do the jews really hate us so much that they'll destroy their little nest egg they built through slavery, just to be toppled by china and russia and sink into irrelevancy

>>55506351
>It means us has more purchasing power and it can crash the economy of your gay orgy of pathetic third world countries.
You do know that the only difference between now and then, is that you would be exporting gold (which you have a finite stock off) instead of dollars?
It's still better for them to get an actual physical goods instead of just fiat USD

>>55519609
>lying to the american people that we'll beat putin in 2 days is braindead retarded and weakens us
Kek.

>>55506969
>Every war the US has been in has paid for itself. Even Vietnam and Afghanistan.
no they haven't, the taxpayers pay for them while the military industrial complex profits
US went 2.3 trillion into debt because of Afghanistan alone

>>55506206
sorry Chang, the US is not going to have a civil war and interracial marriage is socially acceptable now. Every white man will have 2 Chinese concubines and 4 or more transconcubines he can use for business or pleasure.

>>55519380
Interesting info, so only the official withdrawals volume of the SGE is 11x higher than what they claim they have
Thanks for the info

>>55513757

Indeed. And this has been done in the past; in fact, this was the precursor to the United States' great Fiat in the 70's.

Here's a history lesson for you, Anon. Most kingdoms and empires have, as they pass their prime and begin to decay, gone from a noble metal currency to a debased derivative of it. In ancient and medieval times, this was done by minting new coins with a mix of cheaper metals; the king wouldn't be paying for a full gold coin, but he'd be getting a close enough imitation of one that people would use it. Of course, this process would repeat and compound leaving less and less of the noble metal in the coins being minted, and eventually people wouldn't want to use the new, obviously not as good coins. Look up Henry VIII's nickname "Old Coppernose" for an example. If people didn't want to use the new, cheap currency, or if they didn't want to value it as highly as the old, better currency, the king could say the magic word, "FIAT!" (Do it!), and by the force of the state coerce his subjects into accepting his currency on his terms, and once that happened, the new, worse currency was in circulation.

When the Federal Reserve of the United States was formed, they set the official exchange rate of the dollar at 20.67 dollars to one ounce of gold. Later on in 1933, the BEST President EVER, Franklin D. Roosevelt, wanted to do something about the bank runs and collapses happening on his watch, first declared a bank holiday (a nicer way of saying he stopped people from withdrawing their own money and gold), then passed an act which neither he nor congress understood, but which his advisors advised. This Emergency Banking act abolished the gold standard entirely, though only temporarily. This obviously made dollars a very dubious asset; who would trade their time or goods for a promissory note that didn't promise anything? Most rational men would much rather trade directly in gold. But Frankie D., in his infinite wisdom, had a solution to that...

>>55519773

And the solution, the move that was going to solve the Great Depression, the bold new idea that was going to save the American man from poverty was...

Make it illegal to own or trade gold.

Yep, that was Frankie D.'s solution. You have to do it cuz I say so. Literally the same old "Fiat!" that's been tried and failed a hundred times throughout history. I've read a little bit about the financial geniuses who advised him on this, and these men would surely have known at least some of the cases where it happened. As near as I can guess and summarize, their argument for why it would work this time after failing every other time was "Because it's current year".

Of course, good sheep who turned in their gold were compensated... with the nuDollar and at the rate which the government/fed had adopted on that particular day. By the way, they adopted a bunch of new exchange rates, starting at 35 dollars to an ounce, but changing almost weekly at times and with no discernable pattern or reasoning. I genuinely think the strategy was to pick a number, see if it solved the depression, and then pick another number and see if it would work.

Long after Roosevelt, in the 70's, the US finally dumped a gold standard all together, but it had already had a fiat currency for some time. A currency that can be tinkered with and forced upon citizens is a fiat currency. The 70s just marked the point where they stopped even pretending it was anything else.

>>55506934
I’m almost positive that only the countries themselves will be allowed to exchange any surpluses for gold, the proles can’t march into the bank and demand the same thing. Basically the same as the US Bretton woods system that ended in 71.

Also China and Russia are among the top 3 gold producers in the world I believe, and afaik all their production isn’t allowed to leave the country. It is theorized that they are sitting on 10x their stated reserves.

>>55509997
It’s theorized it’s a basket of commodities, but priced in grams of gold rather than dollars

>>55519173
Fair enough, but the US and EU are also untrustworthy. A gold backed system is simply not going to work as intended, ever. An asset without third party risk is the best solution.

Buy Metal(ticker: MTL). It will pump hard on BRICS gold back currency news. It already started

Already up 30% since few days ago.

srsly?
id rather be in a coin shilled by Elon that went from 400 usd volume to 1 mil in 1day

Your last 10000x

>>55517458
Exactly. This is the future of the BRICS currency.

Surely you can trust Russia, India, China, and South Africa not to cut corners, right? Are yall niggas insane? I really really hope you put all your money into this.

>>55522038
scamming western retards is based, what do you expect from an enemy country

buy american retard

>>55522038
also

>out of context image to prove your whole point

>despite the facts that line up showing china has all the gold this one reaction image will sway those evil white racists to our side right agent darqueezius

>>55522038
>it is literally impossible to drill a hole in bullion to test for purity!

>Surely you can trust Russia, India, China, and South Africa not to cut corners, right?
>unlike us, with our currency honestly and transparently backed by... uh...

>>55506248
https://gizadeathstar.com/2019/12/echoes-of-hjalmar-schact-gold-reserves-auditor-caught-lying/
https://www.zerohedge.com/commodities/us-official-gold-reserves-auditor-caught-lying

>>55506287
the US reserves have been audited but the audit was sketchy and revealed that the seals on the vaults have been broken

in any case i don't think the BRICS currency is getting rolled out yet, maybe just a formal statement of intent or they'll show off what they've been researching. to me it looks less like a gold/asset-backed interoperable currency and more like a digital ledger allowing countries to trade with each other using their national currency, possibly using china's e-yuan as a BRICS currency for wholesale/gross settlement between banks

>>55519380

The trick is that the Chinese distribute the gold to other legal entities (still controlled by CCP) and it doesn't go on the PBOC balance sheet as an asset. They do this because they have an export driven economy and they need to keep their currency weak by appearing much more indebted and poor then they really are. In truth, they can fully cover their debts by suddenly claiming more gold holdings and printing to match. If the market wants to test them and they really have the gold, they can defend the peg to gold and suffer no net change.

The US is the inverse, we've been secretly hollowing out our gold holdings through leasing schemes to suppress the price, while acting like we still have tons to keep the dollar up. BRICS can end this anytime by causing a run on the LBMA with a gold backed currency, but they don't because every day artificially cheap gold continues it strengthens their hand further. Once they launch a gold backed currency, western paper gold dies and the price explodes in dollar terms, causing a rapid transfer of purchasing power from west to east.

The only way the US gets out of checkmate is regime-changing the ringleaders and ending their plans. It ain't looking good on that front.

>>55506250
It's just tradition. It's an attractive material that is rare. Other cultures made rare, pretty shells their money. Some did cows, which aren't quite as pretty and are definitely more difficult to maintain, but offered some prestige as a result.

Singapore dollar is gold backed but you cant redeem your dollars for actual shit.

Pretty sure this will be the same garbage, you'll never see a gram of gold from that currency and stocks will be "trust me bro"

So..... what's the business move here? Buy gold or buy foreign currencies?

the upshot for the US is maybe some of these shitskins will go back

>>55525064
>you'll never see a gram of gold from that currency
just like with dollars when it was backed by gold
now every currency working with the "trust me bro" principle, so what's your point exactly?

>>55520408
So the only hope for it to work is that those countries are dishonest enough to lie about their reserves and not dishonest enough to be lying about their reserves?

>>55524775
Right, all of China's mining goes into reserves and not into electrical components and jewelry.

>>55525355

Correct. Gold does not leave China via manufactured goods at significant volume.

Probably some leaves into offshore vaults of wealthy Chinese into Singapore and Switzerland, but even with that the net inflows are still huge and result in China sitting on several times more gold that the US claims it has.

>>55525399
>Correct
Domestic consumption of jewelry in China was 675 metric tons in 2021. How is that insignificant if that's just one market they service?

>>55519108
because their goal isn't to tank BRICS (yet), at least not until the USD has been crippled. a BRICS fiat would pretty much destroy any diplomatic goodwill between member nations as they squabble over monetary sovereignty.

>>55525419

>Domestic consumption

It doesn't leave China in quantities significant enough to change the net balance of gold flowing into China. China has been a net importer and (supposedly) a large producer for a long time. Decades.

Also, the Chinese government likes hiding its purchases as retail business so you need to take those numbers with a block of salt.

>>55525479
>It doesn't leave China in quantities significant enough to change the net balance of gold flowing into China.
But it is a huge consideration ignored by the article to make the math work, as well as the alloyed gold zcandals for loans from state run financing vehicles over the last decade in China. The reserves are inherently untrustworthy but yoh somehow have the conclusion it's in a manner favourable for their gold holdings?

>>55515522
The US will absolutely lose the "gold war" because the point of a gold system isn't a gold stack dick contest but to have a sound, moral monetary system that prevents devaluation of people's savings

Meanwhile the current US system thrives off having the most immoral currency system imaginable
A gold standard global return is unironically a greater WW3 risk than Ukraine and Taiwan combined

>>55525574

I don't care about that article. It's not a consideration to their net holdings if it doesn't really leave China, and again, you don't know who was actually the buyer because it's China and at the end of the day the CCP owns everything there one way or another. People have done the math on the gold flowing into and out of China from their foreign counterparties, and come to the conclusion they've got tens of thousands of tons within their borders.

As for alloyed gold: it is not wise to assume the Chinese are so stupid as to not rigorously check their own holdings. If foreigners are getting fake gold that's because they're fucking over the stupid laowai.

>>55525231
That's why the move to fiat wasn't that big of a deal. It really just implicated international payments, but what's important in international payments is trust between nations on the value of assets denominated in the currency, and it's not a coincidence that the US is the most conservative of the western nations when it comes to its social spending while also splurging on military spending. Those budget items are two sides to the bargain for international monetary trust. The US shows that it won't upset the value of its assets, and it also works to maintain the wealth of its junior partners, the major wealth holders of its allied nations. The push for a return to gold comes from "developing" nations generally on a more competitive footing to the US and its bloc.

Gold for currency that average people used mattered more when it took the form of coinage, because then it provided an actionable threat by savers, usually the rich. Back then the King's bond was risky, because the King had armed dudes and could tell you to fuck off. Gold in the coins was security against the King, if he was acting out then you just spend the coins as gold rather than as the King's money. But in the modern era the King became the bitch of the land holders through the parliament/legislature etc. so increasingly the security of metal money was outweighed by the convenience of trusted payment networks using forms of credit.

>>55506528
The BRICS currency will not be used internally. It will be a BANCOR essentially

>>55525673
>As for alloyed gold: it is not wise to assume the Chinese are so stupid as to not rigorously check their own holdings. If foreigners are getting fake gold that's because they're fucking over the stupid laowai
No it was state owned banks in China each time.

>>55525673
>People have done the math on the gold flowing into and out of China
An on that subject I pointed out there was zero consideration given for the amount leaving the country in commercial or technological products, hence why it's a stupid assumption.

>>55525891

I doubt this is a significant portion of their internal holdings, but the ultimate test is when they deploy it to defend their currency to the satisfaction of the FX markets. Time will tell.

>>55525915

Many people (including the US gov) have looked at the flows accounting for jewelry and manufactured goods, and this observation about China's implied holdings has been made for years. They do not export enough, in any form and by any method, to change the conclusion that they have a shitload more than they claim, and much more than the US. You pointing out the gaps in a single article does not affect that conclusion.

>>55526000
>Many people (including the US gov) have looked at the flows accounting for jewelry and manufactured goods, and this observation about China's implied holdings has been made for years. They do not export enough, in any form and by any method, to change the conclusion that they have a shitload more than they claim.
Bold statement which isn't backed up by the article as the equation isn't shown.

>>55526000
Show the working from the US Government or think tanks showing China's gold reserves are underestimated.

>>55526010

Article irrelevant.

>>55526014

dyor ;)

>>55526028
>Can't back up claim.
>DYOR.
Yeah, not buying your shitcoin Chang.

>>55526050

Hoping you don't.

>>55506314
This would lead to ruin pretty fast in today's world. There's too many people. Imagine having a bank run in a gold backed nation. Absolute disaster. Not to mention what will end up happening when a bad ruler gets into a messy financial position. He'll just start looting museums and any historical artifacts to melt them down to stave off his own sorry political situation. Gold backed currency = the path to ruin.

An electronic system with a finite supply would be a lot safer and more practical on most levels across the board. I don't think Bitcoin is it, but it's a prototype.

>>55526074
Working off the fact that 48% of global gold production is dedicated towards producing jewelry and China contributes 1/8th of the world's jewelry manufacturing whilst mining 13% of the global supply it would appear the numbers add up.

>>55526107
The BRICS currency will not be used internally, it is a trade currency meant to settle interstate accounts

>>55506206
The entire premise of this is just Zerohedge fanfic. Most people who are receptive to this idea are trapped in a paranoid intellectual ghetto or are literally on Bejing or the Kremlin's payroll.

>>55526133
Most reasonable take really.

>>55526133
Either gold is necessary for currency strength or it isn't. If it is necessary then it will lead to historical ruin before too long. If it isn't, then we end up in the same situation as we are in now.

>>55526107
That "ruin" you speak of is a safe guard against said corrupt institutions. Things should be allowed to fail if the people do not agree with it. If a bank run destroys a country then maybe the people were correct in participating in a bank run.

>>55526136
0 arguments detected

>>55526167
>it will cause a bank run
Well considering the currency will not be used as legal tender within a country it will be hard to obtain in the first place by civilians

>>55526107
I think that's effectively what that stuff is for. These days the ruler just sells off national assets when they're running into payments issues. See cities: selling cash flows infrastructure to foreign companies for quick money. But back in the day you couldn't really trust a King to sell you cash flows if you were a creditor. He might tell you to fuck off after he got your money, because he has soldiers and you don't.

So "hard money" was valuable, and amassing a bunch of gold monuments was just one way of turning public expenditures into an asset in a pinch. It was also a way to resolve any distributional conflicts relating to the state treasury. By taking a bunch of your gold and putting it into a statue for some deity, you've technically removed it from the sphere of social competition for public wealth by gifting it to a God. But when the state is in trouble, like because of war or something, you get Athens melting down the statue of Athena for war ship money. Sometimes Kings abuse this and just melt monuments for petty reasons, but usually nobody likes those guys and often rebellions result or they get assassinated eventually.

I'm not defending gold money by the way, I just think that old monuments and artifacts made of precious metals were basically public piggy banks by design, and their status as relics or as objects of religious reverence were basically a means of social reinforcement of not touching the piggy bank unless everyone agrees you REALLY need to.

>>55526207
Now address the historical destruction aspect. You really think a hard strapped country isn't going to loot its historical artifacts and melt them down? Because it happened throughout history over and over. We'll end up in a world without history ruled over by American, Russian, Brazilian, EU, and all other globohomo loving world leaders. Hope that's what you want. Get ready for your new "based" economy lol.

>>55526170
I was mostly speaking of historical artifact ruin, but economic ruin would also happen. It happened all throughout the Middle Ages in nations that had gold and silver currency. All it takes is one bad leader to bankrupt a nation. How is this going to solve the world's economic problems?

>>55526208
That's possibly true or at least partially true for certain objects. But the history we have preserved so far we need to hold on to. I just don't see how a gold backed currency is going to solve the world's problems economically. Might as well just go back to a general commodity based currency so all countries can find a way to participate without the quest for shiny rocks lol.

>>55526107
>This would lead to ruin pretty fast in today's world. There's too many people. Imagine having a bank run in a gold backed nation. Absolute disaster.

Bank runs are only a problem when the bank lies about how much wealth it has to lend out. The solution is fucking easy. Banks hold gold while its overheads and profits are paid with something else. It can be wheat, sugar, oil, fucking silver, any other commodity that does not impact the gold holdings directly. But this will never be practiced because greed is part of the human condition and fractional reserve banking is the financial representation of greed.

>>55526327
Its not, but it give the citizenship a bit more control. I will take anything over what we have now.

>>55526196

>>55526373
based Kaldorian
commodity based reserve currencies are the way
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09538250903073461

>>55526327
>>55526289
>>55526208
>>55526170
the US dollar is dying as a sole world reserve currency because the rest of the world (correctly) sees the US as a cartel run by satanist psychopath pedophiles. the rest of the world is tired of being held hostage and recognizing that too much centralized power leads to unsustainable systemic instability and risk

here is a speech given by then-Bank of England governor Mark Carney to the Federal Reserve on this topic
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-jacksonhole-carney/world-needs-to-end-risky-reliance-on-u-s-dollar-boes-carney-idUSKCN1VD28C

>>55526124
jewelry includes those dumbass tungsten wrapped bullion bars chink plebs buy for lunar new year, anon.

>>55526136
>hurr durr nothing can ever change, the rest of the world will just let us run our seignorage ponzi scam printing USD out of thin air
so do you really think this is The End of History? i doubt you're dumb enough to believe your own bullshit but probably just cynical enough to pretend you do
>more like Francis Fuck Yo Mama KEK

>>55506250
Because the Jews ruined Bitcoin.

>>55527007
Bullion is actually the second biggest quantity of goods produced globally after jewelry. I'm pointing out the assumption that China is sitting on 10x their public reserves is retarded, even with the fake gold that comes out of them (and circulates in their banking sector).

>>55527210
>I'm pointing out the assumption that China is sitting on 10x their public reserves is retarded
China isn't sitting on it, China has been building this massive pile of gold for 20 years as it has plans to overthrow the USD as well as United States global supremacy, which began in the early 90's after the United States protected Taiwan from China when it conducted its first democratic elections. Retards like you only think in the short term and refuse to see this pile of gold as just one of the many cogs in this shift to the new world order.

>>55506326
lmao i love this.
All russia and china have to do is claim they have x amount of gold to print their shitty fiat and then they can inflate as much as they want while convincing retards that have never had to deal with the subhumans that russian and chinese are (especially their politicians) that it's true. It's just another mental hoop to hide that their currency is fake and no way in hell any audit coming from those countries (or probably any country) will turn out to be accurate in anyway shape or form just another CCP shill doing the audit lmao how are people dumb enough to be scared of this.

BRICS is a joke. I live in a BRICS country and I don't get why it is getting shilled constantly. Two of the BRICS country (China and India) have border conflicts. 3 of the countries are led by corrupt people. 4 of the countries are know for cooking the books.

It doesn't matter if they're gonna have a currency backed by gold or by your mom. You shouldn't trust BRICS leadership. This whole movement is a cashgrab scam to finesse money out of dumb westerner investors psyoped into hating their own country.

>>55527379
seethe

>>55527381
Seethe from what, retard? If you want to give your money to corrupt commies, sure, go ahead.

>>55527379
wait until those gringos find out that the lady who's the president of New Development Bank is literally a brazilian inflationist who was impeached because of fiscal shenanigans

>>55527311
Which you're claiming is calculated from the assumption that China is hoarding more gold then they reveal despite net outflow from manufacturing sectors aligning with the publically stated amounts because fraud is so prevalent with Chinese gold but that fact won't detract from the reliability of the gold standard even though the world is so contaminated by fake gold that China was able to accumulate 10x their reserves by jewing women?

The Chinese are unreliable trade partners, even with a gold standard people will just redeem inatantly in fear of capital controls and contaminated supplies. And if it's gold certs how's that better than fiat?

>>55527399
We pretty much lost one decade of economic development because of Dilma and her commie partners. Westerners have no idea how bad it is.

>>55527403
It has already been explained earlier in this thread why people think China is hording more gold than it officially claims. And again, this is just one cog in China's plan to use to overthrow the American empire.

>>55527394
keep crying moshe

>>55527423
Yes, and it's shitty math.

>>55527432
I don't care what you think anon, I'm just spreading the news so people can be prepared for the empire's collapse over the next decade.

>>55527438
>I don't care what you think anon
Just under half of China's yearly gold production goes into Jewelry, how is that a thought that can't be considered into why their gold reserves don't line up with this fantasy of yours? And if fake gold is so prolific from China how will a gold standard BRICS dollar even be different from fiat?

>>55511227
I was just thinking that sounds like something that hack Zeihan would have written lol.

>>55527458
It's not my fantasy, it's a calculation from reputable people who are in the precious metal profession. You keep on avoiding that fact in this debate as well as avoiding possible reasons why China would want to keep that much gold off its books for now, which the article explains why.

I repeat, you avoid asking why China WOULD keep its 20 year accumulation of gold off its books. Anyone who takes interest in war games knows you don't reveal your hand unless you know you can win. Having 4 times the amount of the next biggest gold hoarder who is currently the world's no1 superpower will give you the power to set the new world order, but without the mechanisms in place to maintain that stability the whole thing can implode itself. This is other the part of this system that isn't ready yet and why I don't care what you think because you present your arguments as if BRICS is ready to go right now. That's stupid and anyone who takes on board what you say is stupid.

>>55527730
>from reputable people
Who missed out several glaringly obvious details about where the gold China mines goes.
>who are in the precious metal profession.
So have an incentive to misrepresent facts.

>>55527735
I see you're just going to keep on avoiding the main point being made. That kind of avoidance is what I expect from someone who's got something to lose with the change of the current financial world order.

>>55527759
>I see you're just going to keep on avoiding the main point being made.
I'm not, your point is there are some pm shills who make bold faced lies about where China's gold goes. We see the end result of where it goes (manufactured goods) and the volume that comes out of China matches up with the amount the state banks of China keep. Why are these supposed experts (name them and show their methodology) blatantly lying by omitting how much of China's gold goes into manufacturing and export for consumer and industrial goods? And yes fake gold also comes out of China, where it has in very recent history been used to defraud Chinese state banks and lenders), but that's not the claim being made by these experts you keep touting. And if it is the case who the fuck would want a gold standard currency that involves dealing with China? As they would abandon the currency for the gold first chance they get to get it out of China due to the high risk of fraud.

Be less retarded if BRICS were to allow settlement in gold.

>>55527759
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/chinas-biggest-gold-fraud-4-of-its-reserves-may-be-fake-report/articleshow/76707339.cms?from=mdr

>goyniggers itt think it will be redeemable and not just "backed" by bullshit claims
Kek. There is no Capitalists or Communists, no Globalist or Isolatist, no Left or Right, only parasitic oligarchs draining the lifeblood from their populations. Statists will never voluntarily go back to hard money as soft money allows such effective opaque theft. They will never stop debasing, but we can stop using their shitcoin.

>>55527782
>I'm not
Yes you are, and now you're dismissing it without giving any counter evidence of the points made in the article. It's why I'm not going to bother debating this with you anymore because you're just going to replay with the same type of bollocks you've done multiple times now.

Also, here's the article image again just so there's no excuse from you that you don't know what is being referenced and for anyone else who wants to see it.

>>55527792
bitshit debases itself, no need for any outside participation

>>55506206
>what went wrong with the US’ fiat currency

Separation of money creation from opportunity cost

>>55527915
>Yes you are
No I'm not. Not one of those experts accounts for how much gold in China leaves in manufactured goods. There's just an assumption all gold mined in China is going into bullion from state owned mines when we see from the volume of goods they produce it isn't.

>>55506206
BRICS currency is just a fancy non COMEX gold ticket. Won’t be used for shit since no one is trading gold for oil when they still have fiat
SDRs are similarly pointless

>>55526196
sadly 4chan is infested with people like him, after the war started
there's a group of mentally ill shills known as NAFO that has infested every board