/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>55422837
your correct. chainlink is just one big joke. it's revealed earlier one oracle literally just scraping the price of coingecko or such other website, LMAO...

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2023/03/01/former-accounting-team-of-ftx-us-auditor-armanino-sets-up-shop-as-the-network-firm/

>>55422837
>makes false assertion
>YOU have to prove ME wrong
this is your brain on fud

https://data.chain.link/ethereum/mainnet/reserves/tusd-por

>>55422837
I spoke with Sergey after his presentation at Consensus and it was honestly very tiresome.

I talked to him about PoR and said "isn't it an issue if a protocol like TUSD has their reserves with a bank like Silicon Valley Bank? Then the bank will say 'sure we have the funds' but they really don't, so doing an API call to an account balance doesn't really prove anything." And he said "well there could be a sort of credit score for these banks" and I said "but doesn't that bring us back to square one with having to just trust them?" And then he said that he had a lot of people to talk to and I was left hanging.

I didn't know the TUSD situation was this bad, but I've really been seeing just a lot of how much this entire space is entirely bull shit. I was hoping CL was above it, but I'm just seeing it's all nonsense for the most part.

>>55422871
Look at the two links I posted. The accounting firm that audited FTX changed its name from "Armanino" to "The Network Firm." Chainlink says the data for the TUSD reserve oracle is coming from The Network Firm.

So the "proof" seems to just be an on-chain version of FTX's bookkeeping.

>>55422837
wouldnt it be quite impossible to truly verify tradfi reserves, no matter what system you set up at the end of it its one guy at the custodial saying trust me
link oracles only work in correctly transmitting this number into blockchain enabled format so it can be used in smart contracts, but it helps nothing against fraud of either the company itself or the custodial
you would have to do an entire audit of the custodial itself to proof it isnt cooking the books and double dipping its own reserves
there are some things dlt cant solve and stable coins tbill holdings is one of them

>>55422871
It isn't a false assertion though. I actually did an entire presentation on TUSD's PoR system. And Armamino is indeed the accounting firm that set up the API and everything. So you literally just have a bunch of different computers (nodes) making an API call like getAccountBalance() and they all agree on the balance...but if Armamino is running the API, all you're doing is trusting Armamino in a really unnecessarily complex way.

I'll search my hard drive for the presentation or content from it if you want to see it.

>>55422837
>Chainlink is so crucial even scams need it to function
You outfudded yourself

>>55422924
Maybe it is impossible to provide a proof of reserve with fiat assets, but it's possible to not build a product that claims to do so. No wonder nobody uses it.

>>55422924
Yes. And this is the case for literally everything chainlink does as an "orcale." I built one of the Top Quality projects in the recent Spring 2023 hackathon and you know how I got data onchain? I had a react app do an API call and passed the response to a smart contract function in the next line of code. I did the same API call with CL Functions, but it was kind of stupid and convoluted. Either you trust the API or you don't. If you can open source a project and see that all it is doing is making an API call, do you really trust it more if 100 different computers make the API call instead? It just doesn't seem like a service that anyone in reality will pay for. Certainly no hobbyists like myself will EVER pay to use Chainlink Functions. Maybe some professionals in the future, but this whole space is just getting so ugly to me.

>>55422837
Putting aside the legitimacy of the firm, the only way for off chain assets to be verified is with a 3rd party reporting it. There’s no workaround for this.

The oracles are useful here not to guarantee the money is really there (that’s the job of the third party) but to guarantee that if this value is used for any kind of obligations such as smart contract execution that it is incorporated correctly. E.g. a smart contract says if the reserve value drops beneath a certain number then an insurance payout happens.

It’s not complete removal of trusted parties, but it is minimizing the number of them required. I’m not really sure if this is preferably, essentially in this case the 3rd party could knowingly attack whatever smart contracts depend on that numbers accuracy simply by reporting an incorrect number out to the nodes.. but the theoretical value is that as long as the single party can be trusted you now only need to trust that party. In the future maybe these companies will allow multiple auditors to report in so there is penalization cost for a single erroneous reporter. That would be preferable, I think.

All this shit is still way early, anon. Nobody is using this stuff right now really anyway. Basically just proofs of concept.

"Proof of Reserve" is a product that was created in response to a lack of faith in the market caused by the very people who created it.

This is shady as fuck.

>>55422837
You guys seriously need to learn to be patient. I'm a huge Chainlink person and its good to wait. I'm sitting on about 20k a month like you guys (240k TC / year) and I end up with a fair amount to save. CL is great investment wise. I think realisitcally Chain won't fluctuate as much as it did in the past, makes for a solid long term investment. Pair like with the fact basically everyone with a CS degree after a few years makes the 240k --> 350k + move TC wise and there is definately the money to use with more investment. Hopefully this stuff keeps going, I think we can avoid recessions with things remaining affordable like this. With a 240k MINIMUM TC your talking about the abiltiy to still easily afford a 400k+ house at about 7/8% interest rates.

>>55422958
>do you really trust it more if 100 different computers make the API call instead?

Yes? The issue isn't about trusting the app or not, it's about a man in the middle attack on the computer pulling the api, which is literally 100x harder in your example

>>55422992
Be patient for what? What's going to happen is that TUSD will collapse and Chainlink will once again end up with egg on its face because TUSD was using their product that supposedly guaranteed that it was legit.

>>55422949
>>55422958
nice to completely miss the whole purpose here
its all about making uncorruptable data feed into a smartcontract
you see with the many attempted competitors of link they all got hacked to some degree so millions could be drained from smartcontracts
past events have shown that methods that dont use link are fairly easy to corrupt
now yes if the underlying company is a total fraud a la ftx link will neither detect nor prevent that
but the ability to pull of that level of fraud is orders of magnitude more difficult
also while all the cefi and ftx things got busted the hackers of the protocols all got away with it
now i am not gonna bother a repeat of the very basic functions of an oracle in this space, so proof one shred of proof you were a top quality project in the hackaton shouldnt be hard now would it

>>55422981
well if the auditor lies and reports lower reserves then there really are in order to liquidate smart contracts he leaves a very public paper trail to do so and since he is doxed in real live will be open to massive lawsuits that will prevent him from profiting of this attack
covering up lack of reserves is the real threat and pretty much impossible to truly stop
i suppose the only way is for the stable coin to have deposits at dozens of intermediaries in several jurisdictions so you know its probably backed +95% at all times
but this is then again impossible as crypto is purposefully unbanked to prevent or slow its adoption
like i said at the end of the day stables will always be risky at least until crypto is fully embraced by tradfi and future tether has a direct line at the fed like jpm has today
tho at that point one might not even need stables anymore

>>55423018
the fact you didn't recognize the cs 240k fud immediately tells me you aren't from here, go back

bro I literally just read the twitter version of this thread and OMG it is so much better so lets all head on over back to twitter to re-read the original twitter alpha fud thread and not this rehashed beta latefag /biz/ tripe picked up by awkward incel marketers trying to justify their jobs

>>55422837
Quite funny how Betraymoto end up linking up with every big (((scam))) in crypto since 2018 and always manage to keep it quiet and never catch some flak in the process...
How come link never get called out?

>>55423227
ESL-kun

Let me guess, Bulgaria?

>>55423227
>whataboutism
>not an argument
bro I just read exactly this on Twitter and it was based and redpilled so head on back to twitter and enjoy bro you deserve it

>>55422837
you know that chainlink is also a sensors and surveillance company that makes cameras and IR sensors to ensure physical assets are in the vault, as part of PoR, right?

>>55422931
>I'll search my hard drive for the presentation or content from it if you want to see it.
Do it

>>55423277
checked and he won't they never deliver just like the guy who posts in every thread that he made millions in the market pumping and dumping link but somehow never has proof, nevermind autists here posted daily proving they had 10k, 50k, 100k stacks of link. its a bunch of losers filled with jealousy that want you to capitulate because they didn't get in as early as you.

>>55423238
>not an argument
bro you need to argue so we can fine tune our ai debatOOr bot
>we

>>55423238
Can you point out what i did wrong, formulation wise? I always enjoy any opportunity to improve my english.
t. ESL-kun

>>55423341
>fix my english for free bro
no

>>55423341
You did everything wrong

>>55423341
It's "betrayomoto" you filthy slavoid

>>55423341
>how Betraymoto end up linking
Should be ends up
>link never get called
gets here. This one is tricky, because it comes down to if link is an it or they. They never get, it never gets. But gets is correct here. I'm an English teacher and can't tell you why that's right off the top of my head, I just know it is.

>>55423262
>whataboutism
How so? I'm simply curious. It's a fact they endorsed many, many scams of talmudic origin over the years. I could have mentioned lady liberty, gravelcoin, synthetix, the town crier fiasco, etc...
So at some point you'd expect ppl to become more suspicious abount chainlink, no? The only time it backfired quite hard was during the Jessica debacle, mostly because of how clownesque it all was.

>>55423440
Finally somebody with something useful to say. Thanks fren for the help, i'll try to remember it.

Even pi network that is still dubious today has its worth more than chainlink.
Even that's on iou or by p2p

>>55422958
I, too, received a top quality project prize. But you're missing the point of Chainlink Functions. It's a streamlined and more robust version of AnyAPI where the goal is to make sure the API data delivered to the smartcontract is secured and free of any malicious influence. This has always been a major problem in crypto that necessitated the need for companies like Chainlink to solve the oracle problem. If the data is tampered from malicious actors or flat out unreliable, then your smartcontract is unreliable and your whole dapp is compromised.

>>55423492
How do we know this isn't the same entity running 16 nodes?

>>55422981
>to guarantee that if this value is used for any kind of obligations such as smart contract execution that it is incorporated correctly
they are copying an unreliable value onto the blockchain and every interested party can use it in their buggy contract, for free. it's one step above those websites spamming google results by scraping and copying content to suck some ad money out of the system. sergey lucked out by being early and capturing a large share of the capital sloshing around in the early crypto days. that immediately explains why there is no progress: everyone expects great things, but that's literally it, it's just a system copying values. everything else is just using up the funding to pay smarter people to find more "use cases", but they can't, it's an overvalued, bloated startup that copies values and calculates medians

>>55423795
you know this is again quality fud, much better than the cuckold spammer
this will actually stop tourists from buying in

>>55423448
Do you have her mega or link?

>>55422847
Proof?

>>55423810
i actually admire their ability to brazenly milk retail for as long as they have without incurring any liability. their product s a token that cost them $0 to produce, the only thing giving it value is the marketing they put out in the form of blog posts, conferences and "interviews" that are only watchable if you are immune to second hand embarrassment. their profit margins are insane and they do all this while keeping up a charade of being a legitimate company to skirt securities law. that business model is the real innovation here

>>55422958
It makes sense with staking
If the api doesn’t report they get slashed
If they do, they can earn rewards.

>>55423923
And where do these rewards come from? Someone has to pay for them. And I think you'd be hard pressed to find many legitimate companies, especially in tradfi, who would participate in this scheme. If I went to my CEO and told him to buy a cryptocurrency called "chainlink" in order to do business "trustlessly", I'd be laughed out of the room at best and fired at worst.

>>55423570
because each node has a different name and symbol duh

>>55422871
>you HAVE to
no you obviously don't but if you take this chain seriously and know anything about it it shouldn't be too hard... right?

>>55423941
>boss we should use the internet
>hahahaha get out of my office wagie wtf is an internet
what is coming is inevitable

>>55423974
>muh Internet
>muh Amazon
Let me guess, I'm a Bulgarian Jewish fudder trying to get you to sell your precious linkies?

>>55423974
define precisely exactly what is "coming"

>>55423139
its not fud you shit. Whats the point of all of this shit if we all still need to trust some fat fucking jew to push the correct buttons on his keyboard

>>55423993
I didn't say any of those things, anon, if you want to call yourself those things that's on you.
>>55423995
100% of global digital value exchange operating completely free of counterparty risk through the use of trust minimised smart contracts running on decentralised substrates.

>>55423461
>i'm an english teacher
>doesn't know about the third person singular

>>55424029
lol okay LINKcel. Have sex.

>>55424217
I will never have sex anon N-E-V-E-R
I bought a one-way ticket to Sofia Bulgaria to begin my accession into the FUD cult

deus FUD!

how does that make you feel?

>>55424341
>how does that make you feel?
you didn't ask me, but it makes me feel pity for you

>>55423941
The rewards come from apps. The apps get paid by their users. So ultimately the consumer will pay for Chainlink.
You'd be an absolute moron to use any sort of defi app that is not using Chainlink oracles at this point.

>>55424387
>bro you have to just reproduce or else an anonymouse stranger will feel pity
lmao what a sad hill to die on PATHETIC

>>55424407
there is zero organic usage of defi and web3 so most of this imagined user money is coming straight outta VC Coffers no cap imagine being an absolute retard on 4chins like some zoomer tiktoker go back to china bitch
VCs are still calling the shots
VCs have funded DeFi
VCs have bootstrapped Defi by consuming Chainlink products
VCs not anon incels have contributed more to defi than holding link tokens not needed
But the VCs still seeth
However does that make you feel?

>>55422837
Yeah sure Chainlink is worthless, whatever.

I'm still gonna buy more.

>>55422837
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH imagine being this low T as this guy , FUN FACT you will never know what it is to have a tight pussy contract on your cock and drip all over you