/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>55263407
First of all, you should be playing the absolute cheapest stakes online until you're able to win
Second of all, you need to study and do research to win online
Third of all, once you can win on the cheapest online stakes, you can win at the cheapest IRL casino tables unless maybe if you're in vegas

>>55263407
Online is full of sharks and cheating is impossible to stop. Pros will run 10 games at a time rapid fire and there’s bots everywhere. Know a guy who makes most of his living playing live poker and he says he gets smoked online at anything above 50c/$1 stakes

>>55263430
im not even playing for money yet, but online it seems that those low probability hands get opened nearly every single round, while i can consistently win irl with 1 or 2, i can never shake the feeling that 1 player on the table is always being blessed by the sever. there is always one motherfucker that always wins on showdowns, don't even need to bluff

>>55263407
>You've found your level.
Let's be honest, you're friends don't understand the simplest principles.

>>55263407
Online is pure math and use tools on a second laptop, everyone else does.

>>55263471
It's possible to run cold literally for thousands of hands, give it a couple months before you evaluate your performance. You should check out tools like pokertracker that can help you rationally evaluate your performance as part of the bigger picture. You need to be able to look at what you're doing outside of what the result of a given hand is. I remember snap calling an all-in with Jack high once on the river online because I knew the guy was bluffing and frankly it was kind of a foolish move on my part since I was still losing to some bluffs lol, but I won the guy was so tilted you know he was affected. Not being affected when the unexpected happens is key

>>55263471
Yeah, computer random is anything but random.

how is this even a question

>>55263471
>while i can consistently win irl with 1 or 2,
1 or 2 pairs*

You shouldn't give up if you don't get a full screen in this game, because Stake will change your life after you stop gambling after cashout.

>>55263603
Is this your win on Stake?

>>55263620
Do you want my ID win?

>>55263407
>playing online poker
LMFAO. Unless you have hundreds or maybe thousands of hours to study you aren't going to make any kind of money. IMO the only way to make real money in poker is to play live Omaha against boomer whales, and to survive that, you're going to need a six-figure bankroll to start.

>>55263407
Faster hands in online games give you a higher number of bad beats per hour but the same percentage of bad beats overall. Getting wiped online is a symptom of improper betting or chasing hands too long or playing trash hands you shouldn't have called with in the first place. The lack of physical interaction removes a lot of information for reads and the faster time gives less time to look for information, plus the greater amount of hands per hour really rewards "math poker" style play. If you don't know poker math you should learn it before continuing, starting with only playing top 10% hands.

>>55263660
if i need to play mathematical then i'm better off writing a bot instead of spending my time computing probabilities by hand

>Have KK
>Go all in
>Opponent has an ace
>Ace comes on the board

Every single time. Online poker is rigged.

>>55263603
Play Plinko on Stake, play it cool 100$ per ball you will 10x you money within a day. Thank me later.

>>55263785
>Honey, he called with Ace high....the fuck I'm I supposed to do here!

Instead of investing at ATH, you should start gambling to increase your wealth with small amounts of money on Stake.

>>55263407
your friends are retards

>>55263407
Here are my results live the last 550 hours. 1-2 NL 30 max buy in.

I’ve figured out how to win at such a high % while keeping variance very low. Out if all these 64 wins….almost all of them are in the 150-500 win range… with only 1 or 2 above $1,000 profit… and a handful in the 600-800 range.

>>55263641
Yeah I'm sure everyone sitting at 2/5 plo has a six figure bankroll. Just lmfao. No gamble, no future.

>>55263888
whats the strat here?

this thread is proof that /biz/ is negative alpha

>>55263888

Hourly maximum at 1/2 NL 300 cap is 30$ sustainable. That's if you're beating 500NL online.

T. 20million lifetime hands and discord groups have already ironed this out with metadata. Main consideration to winrate is not opponents skill level but rake.

if you're considering poker at all as a career, you need to play live. making money online is impossible, and has been for years.

>>55263407
You shouldn't play poker online, it's literally not even worth the time. If you're good at poker go to a casino, there are tons of rich retards with huge egos giving out free money

>>55264073
no cassinos in my cunt

>>55264006
>>55264044

What I am doing is I am mostly letting the hands play themselves out. If I flop a set or two pair… and someone is willing to go with me… of course I’m happy to go with it but they will have plenty of equity to get it in obviously which creates the variance.

I am also checking back nearly every turn when I’m the aggressor. So if I raise with AK and the flop comes K36…. If I bet the flop and someone calls…. I’m checking back near all turns…this does a couple things…. If they have nothing… they are finding anyway so we are actually LOSING a lot of value betting when we are at the top of our range. Now if they do have me with a set… or turned a 2 pair on me… checking back will pot control. But if they don’t have me they will often bet the river and I snap it off inducing a bluff. But if they do have me then the pot is controlled and I lose a borderline small to medium ish pot.

The main problem with live low stakes is the rake and the hands per hour. Average hands per hour around 30 but with breaks and bad tables it can be closer to 25 in actuality. Online is how you can go from zero to hero in poker (or tournaments) but it also has the highest concentration of skilled opponents so your edge has to be larger.

I've recognized that most pros online are playing like a script nowadays, they're on muscle memory and respond poorly to spots they aren't familiar with like donk leads on river. They are overfolding in these spots(recreational players overcall in these spots). Donk leading OOP will become the new meta in the next fews years. Even the most studied opponents are struggling facing donks on certain textures.

>>55264044
I am also folding to 3 bets with hands like AQ… because that’s roughly a flip usually. I am also often playing my big pairs scared. Often open checking flops and what not. I am avoiding trying to get it all in even with equity advantages.

Here are a couple hands. This hand was actually from 1/3 1k max…

I raise UTG with AJss to 20$…. 4 callers…. Flop J107 rainbow flop. I bet 60… guy to my left calls and everyone else folds.

Turn is a 5 blank spade… I now have the nut flush draw as well as top pair top kicker…. I now check…(was gonna go for a check raise) he checks… river blank 4…now most people would bet for value here. I checked… he shoots out 210. I snap… and he has Q9 for a missed open ender

>>55264130

Flop: Ks 3c 6h
Turn: Ts

High frequency bet 150% is most profitable. The only size I have on this specific turn is 150% or check. We should be checking 6's and 10's and underpairs. Hands that can beat other draws like AQ/Aj can check or bet.

>>55264174
I fold AQo OOP high frequency facing tight 3! range. Facing a loose 3! range i will 4! high frequency with both AQ or AQs but never fold. In position, more likely to stay around against any range. Knowing opponent frequency with AQ is paramount.

>>55264044
Here’s another hand…this is against a villian who is a solid TAG who I haven’t gotten a penny from in 5 months…

I raise AQ to 15…. Villain calls OTB… sb and Bb calls….

QJ7 flop… checks to me I check, villian checks… turn like a blank 3… checks to me I check… villain bets 35… SB calls…. I call…. River blank 4…. Check, hero checks…. Villain bets 65…. SB folds… I snap…. He shows Q10…

Now at first I’m thinking to myself… maybe this guy isn’t as good as I thought. Horrible river bet right? Then I thought about it…and it was an excellent professional thin value bet. Because I played it exactly like I had AJ or KJ trying to get to showdown.

>>55263534
This. Computer chips have to be set to payout a certain percentage over a specific frame of time to protect casino owners from going to jail. Doesn't mean any grand prize progressive jackpot has to hit like a lot of retard casino lounge lizards think. This is why grand jackpots hardly ever hit. Fuck anything machine-related, online or not

>>55264205
I bluff alot and this board will contain many bluffs. I'm hammering this board with value and hands like kt/9t/and gutshots that turn a flush draw. Also I will turn a 7 into a bluff high medium frequency. I will be betting this flop high frequency as initial raiser and also barreling many turns for large bets. If I do check this flop and it checks through and the board is a blank. With your holding if anyone bets I will raise. Especially if turn brings in a flush draw or there is an existing one on the flop.

You have top top and granted its 4ways but that is still a very strong holding and our opponents will only have QJ/JJ(tight players can flat)/77 to beat us.

Q7s/j7s may show up in live poker more often in positions outside the bb but we are unlikely to face aggression on a double broadway board as initial raiser unless they "have it" because we also very often "have it".

>>55264180
Here is the simplest example I can give you….

I raise KQo UTG…. Solid Asian player is the only caller….

Flop K39r

My question to you is… why bet here? If he has KJ or K10 he’s gonna do the betting anyway right? And if I bet… and he’s got air he’s going to fold to my bet, right?

So I check…. He checks…. Turn is a 2…..

I now check again…. He now bets 15…. I call…. River is whatever…. I check again and he checks back….

And he kinda waves his hand like… I got absolutely nothing and I show.

I gained 15$ of value where I would have lost it betting the flop. But why bet??? The hand is essentially locked up for me. And if he binks his 10% somehow on the turn or river …. Big deal? I lose maybe 40-80$…

>>55264244
Oh absolutely….I’m still betting my range when I miss…. Betting bottom pairs and open Enders and what not. I’m saying WHEN we are at the top of our range I’m starting to learn we are actually losing a ton of value….

>>55264244
I’m differentiating myself from the solid LAG/TAG players that are indistinguishable from one another.

Did you see the Brad Owen hand when he had K7 and bet the river for like 8k into a 15k pot agains that whale? And the whale raised him to 100k and Brad folded.

That was about the worst river bet ever. Easiest snap check call river ever if the whale had decide to bet. Why is he betting that river? Pot is already semi decent at 15k. And he just opened himself up to get owned.

>>55264244
And did you also see the hustler casino live hand where Polk had aces… he value bets the river for 200k and his opponent goes all in with ace high and Polk folded.

Why would he bet that river? Easiest check… and snap a 2-300k bet if he decides to make it

>>55264283
If you’re not betting flops good for initial raisers range then you are sacrificing the luxury that being the initial raiser provides.

Being the initial raiser is a privilege and valuable. it comes with a lot of leverage, we bet this flop frequently with all of holdings. Not just top pair. We are also betting flops small 25-33%. OOP you can even go smaller(I enjoy dynamic sizing OOP vs IP). This gives us flexibility on turns. We are planning for the future.

>>55264333
That being said K low low is a pretty neutral board. Callers preform well on them if a lot of money goes in. For your range Not as bad as ace-low-low but not as good as double broadways. Still good enuf for a bet (mostly).

how do I beat my friends at poker? we’re all casuals but I can never win

>>55263407
you need to learn the math behind poker. also, gambling with your own real money with strangers is way different from gambling with fake money/real money with friends. also what >>55263430 said

>>55264375
Well timed aggression. Like any game.

>>55264322
They are playing out of bankroll. I saw both hands. Neither line was credible. Both players would of tank called in a 1k-3k max.

Thus the dangers of playing underrolled.

>>55264421
Notice how dwan faces a similar spot and calls down because 1. He’s at the top of his range and 2. He’s playing against aggressive players and 3. He is properly rolled

>>55264130 # >>55264174 # >>55264205 #

The progessional said "rake". Write it down 20 times before posting again you midwit

>>55263407
Your friends are fish and you probably are too
Git gud

>>55264044
Great posts. I played online up successfully all the way up from 0.01/0.02 to 0.50/1 NL until Black Friday, and now only get a chance to play live once or twice per year. I often wonder what personality types that were drawn to online poker, and did it successfully, find valuable on /biz/.

>>55264592
Men who are rational, disciplined, and aggressive will excel at online poker. Online poker now is better then it was 5 years ago, that is for sure. There are several states with regulated online and all of them are incredibly soft: PA, NJ, NV, MI. - NV lineups will be the toughest. All sites @200nl are beatable with 6mo-1y of study/experience.

As far as unregulated sites. Global is the softest. The 200+ games are still very beatable for a novice. I would not tackle 200+ @ WPN or Bovada without several million hands of experience however.

>>55263407
Do you know what ranges are ? Pot odds ? GTO ? Do you have any clue on how the game actually works ? Bc playing with some friends usually means you play like james bond, just using pf charts can get you out of micro stakes especially in turbo tournaments, for post flop play you need to follow training online, vidoes on yt etc, there are a lot of free things now, nut advantage, range connectivity, bet sizing, polarisation, draws, sets, continuation betting, squeezing, etc etc to name a few things

>>55263407
If you are having trouble in micro stakes and are blaming the “unfair cards” you have no clue how poker works and so you cant adapt your to the people you are playing, study the game first, just playing hands and learning yourself gets you nowhere

>>55264421
The bankroll doesn’t matter really. Those were both awful river bets by Owen and Polk. Each time…. If they check…. And both villains check back… Owen wins a semi decent pot… and Polk wins a very nice pot. If they both check… and both villains bet…. It would have been about a 15k bet for Owen…. Easy snap for him…. And if Polk checks and his opponent bets 200k… easy snap call for Polk.

>>55264333
K

>>55264631
What software is good? I've had quite a bit of success irl and online in tournaments but never got into the autistic scalping. A couple friends did back in the day but our govt shut down all the sites. Now I can only use ignition I think..

>>55264333
I’m not saying I’m not betting the K47 flop with AQ when I’m the preflop raiser. I am a lot of the times with range advantage. But when I’m essentially nutted. There’s not much reason to bet that flop. Only thing that can hurt me is an A coming in turn and he has A rag… in which case I lose a tiny pot. Or he has a pair and hits his 2 outer… and again I’m not losing a big pot.

>>55263407
An example how to adapt your game for the micro stakes: these retards call everything off when they have top pair, so you play more suited connected hands and one gappers, maybe 2 gappers, you barely bluff, dont need to be balanced at those stakes, just try to get a straight or a flush and every retard will call you off, (depends on stack dept of course) + they barely reraise preflop or even just all limp in, so you get to see. A lot of flops with low connected hands anyways, this doesnt mean you need to pkay every hand tho, (still need to kinda follow the basic range tho just deviate from it, dont pkay 70% of hands)

>>55263407
Online poker is rigged so everyone wins from time to time whatever hand you have. Sometimes you win unfair hands, sometimes you lose against unfair retarded hands. Otherwise no player would ever want to play after being demolished in literallly a couple of hands by somewhat decent non retarded and committed players. Sometimes you have AA, flop gives you an A, and go all in only to lose to a 2-6 while you see a straight being painted like clockwork to make your opponent wins. The only non-rigged aspect of online poker is that you can make your opponent fold, which makes you win automatically.

>>55264373
I’ve had periods of times where I’ve ran like the sun… playing well and running well….and I’ve had NOTHING even approaching that 64/71 win rate. The best I ever ran over a period of time where I was killing it for 6 months to a year was 70% which is typically top sustainable win rate for an elite pro. And I’m running at near 90% of sessions won since I changed gears. And I only even did it is because I had a period of about 3 months were I literally lost like 30 all ins out of 32 where probably half those i was at least a 75% favorite.

>>55264793
I certainly saw a lot more bad beats online but I always subscribed to the idea that you do see way more hands online than irl. Also at least in tournaments the blinds are designed to destroy you and leaves people making desperate moves they wouldn't irl.
Soon there should be verifiable randomness on a public ledger for this shit though.

>>55263407
online is a scam
the pros are all buddies who collude online

>>55264231
I used to own a slot machine and can assure you that's it's possible to win the jackpot. I believe in on the machine I had it was a reasonable 1 in 40,000 chance. Each spin is completely independent from the next so if you hit the jackpot your chances of hitting the jackpot on the next spin are still 1 in 40,000. Because the variance is so high, this is why slots often have a higher vig, because it vastly increases the confidence of the casino owner that the machine will be in profit over 100,000 spins

>>55264631
>aggressive
literally every single time i try to be aggressive i get fucked. i play tight for 100 hands, then i try to bluff with an OK hand once and get fucked by a caller that flops a set of 2

>>55264375
If you spend 20 minutes learning some openings charts you will crush them consistently once you get used to the new, superior range

>>55263407
playing online is for retards, nothing but bots and colluding teams

>>55264873

Give me the action of the hand where you lost to a set while you were being aggressive? Did he play back at you at all? What was the texture?

>>55264878
Bump

>>55263471
the same guy can be multiple players online, they have a very high advantage like this

>>55264870
The RNG on slots has one specific mathematical equation it must compute to spit out the grand jackpot. It's next to impossible to achieve because it has to divide numbers in billions in order to land on that specific equation. Lesser jackpots have numerous other equatons set to pay out, not just one so they're way more attainable. I'm not saying an RNG is bad, I just don't like that the action is fixed unlike the Powerball or hand shuffle table games which are totally random

>>55265484
Afraid not anon. For example a three reel slot, each reel has a virtual map of all the symbols so for example there might be 55 blanks, 2 cherries, 5 bars, 1 seven, 1 jackpot symbol on one reel, 50 blanks, 3 cherries, 8 bars, 2 sevens, 1 jackpot symbol on the second reel, and so on. So each reel's jackpot symbol chance is independently drawn based on the timing of the player, usually 1 in 64 or 1 in 128. So for example a slot with 3 1 in 64 jackpot symbols would be a 64*64*64= 1 in 262144 chance of hitting the jackpot

>>55265484
That's some casino's slot machine...

>>55265526
This is actually why besides advantage poker or counting cards at blackjack, I'd say high limit slots are your best bet for a big payday. $10-$25 slots often have a low 2-3% vig and decent payouts will be in the thousands and tends of thousands, with minor payouts in the hundreds. Much better to spin $60 in 6 $10 spins with a real chance at money than diddle away $60 with $1 spins with a bunch of bullshit payouts that never satisfy

>>55263407
I used to play the freerolls on either pokerstars or absolutepoker don't remember which. Anyway it was always 3k or more players. First prize was like 20 bucks. I got 8th by playing very tight. I think I made 5 bucks or something.

>>55265570
She's the grand prize. She'll be 60 years old by the time you win tho lol

>>55263407
just fold until you get trips. its really that simple

>>55265837
No set
No bet