/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>55211335
Youre fucking retarded

>>55211354
This. You're fucking retarded, and beyond saving.

>>55211354
>>55211382
Thanks for the bump I guess

No, they're an unregistered security.

>>55211335
Yes, if: You are willing to hold for 15-20 years.
Old sealed products are the way to go, not modern cards, since you can go from sealed=>cards, but not the other way around.
Also, every pokemon booster box has doubled in value eventually

>>55211398
the card in the OP is a limited edition that shot up in value in less than a month.

Some are going for as high 10$. In 20 yrs its probably going to be worth 3 times as much.

>>55211335
Everything that's treated as investment collectibles this widely probably won't be good investments.

>>55211398
Trick is to invest in x ray machines to see what each card is.
>Valuable ones = open them and sell as is
>no valuable ones = sell as a box so neets can hope they have something valuable that you know isn’t.

>>55211457
Brainlet take. Look how much boomers paid for rookie Mickey Mantle cards and shit. Base set 1 cards (especially hard hitters like shadowless charizard etc) will go for similar rates.

The newer shit is probably more volatile and entirely dependent on the health of the cardgame Itself however, but the original cards (WotC era) will likely only continue to gain value over the years.

>>55211412
I'm more of an MTG guy, and don't know how formats, promos etc work with Pokemon. I actually had a pleasant conversation with a coworker the other day and gave her (she's in her 40s) my longbox of old pokemon cards, after pulling out anything $10+ (pic related). She got a couple Articunos and was pretty happy and said she'd give me something for everything even though I was just happy to part with the junk.
The Charizard has physical damage to it. Mint would be $450 or so, but there is a physical tear in the right edge and an impression on top the edge. I would still expect to get $60-80 for it just because it's old and rare.

>>55211459
Until like 5-6 years ago, you could do just that with MTG cards with a kitchen scale - heavier packs had foils so you'd crack them, sell the foils as singles, and then vend the loose packs at your store or online. Or if you did mass box openings, you could eventually hit patterns in the boxes (say 20 different box layouts). Once you know what box you cracked, you could immediately dive into the mythics/foil packs and sell everything else. It got pretty bad because you could buy a case of 6 boxes, open 1-2 boxes, then sell the other 4 boxes that had junk in them. This is also a problem with some other tcgs. I don't think it was Weiss-Schwarz, something else.

>>55211491
OP is obviously talking about the newer cards. "Investing" in 2023 packs is probably not worth it while the old cards will stay valuable forever since they are rarer, 90s kids have nostalgia etc. we all know it. These new sets get printed like hell and no kid (future collector) is going to want them, all packs get sold to "investors" who saw what happened with base set prices few years ago and expect it to automatically happen for new sets in the future. There are so many sellers expecting to profit but who's going to buy?

>>55211335
yes

Pokémon cards are the stamps and then the baseball cards of this generation. People use to spend big money in stamps then big money on baseball cards. Your grandkids will sell all of it for $500 in the future. $500 will also be worth less because of inflation

>t. Sold my grandpas stamp book for $150 when I know he spent 1-2k on that bullshit

>>55211563
I can agree with that. The newer cards are entirely dependent on the active mess of the card game itself. Pokémon TCG still has a strong following but who knows how it’ll shake out 20 years from now so I agree that the newer cards (I’d define newer as anything post WotC desu) are a lot less solid.

That being said, I’ve seen there is a market for flipping newer cards right now, I don’t follow it at all but I have some friends that buy boxes and sell single lucky pulls they got for more than 2x-3x what they paid for the entire box.

>>55211581
>comparing stamps to pokemon
kek

baseball cards are still worth a rack, especially if you pull a chase

>>55211335
get evolving skies, collect alt arts

>>55211595
Not what they use to be, with inflation, no that is not a good investment

>>55211581
Retard. Baseball cards still sell for a shitton. Pokémon is literally the highest grossing franchise in the world, everyone from Jewish investment bankers to street shitting urchins in India know who Charizard is. Original cards will still be worth a shitton even 50 years from now.

>>55211605
with inflation, anything is a good investment. Pokemon is a global asset that tens of millions of people around the world collect with a fetish. They've been around for almost 30 years now, and you really think a 100 billion dollar franchise is just going to die out with a snap of a finger? Cope.

>>55211627
God that is an ugly card. The SOVL of Pokémon card design died around the timeWoTC left.

>>55211563
>>55211592
Feels the same with MTG.
I think the best option is to wait for Amazon / TCGPlayer / ebay dumps and just pick shit up when it's significantly below market value, like vendors liquidating bad assets.
One good way to measure current market value is the Rudy method — go onto ebay, look at Buy It Now prices on sold listings and average them out.

>>55211627
>>55211610
Don't forget, cards are a collectable - not an investment. There are no provisions in place to declare taxable gains on them.

>>55211335
only the rare ones desu

>>55211641
imagine being this braindead

Oh yeah, and what are your guys' thoughts on other card games? There's lots to go around:
>Magic
>Pokemon
>Yugioh
>Digimon
>Flesh and Blood
>Sorcery (kino as fuck I actually want to buy some for the art)
>Disney Lorcana
>Metazoo
>Weiss Schwarz
>One Piece
>Others

Asked one of the bigger stores in my region about these today. They have almost no Metazoo boxes in stock, and tons of Digimon. Seems Magic is more popular, even though WotC is a fucking nightmare to deal with. Pokemon has a very strong brand. I want some Lorcana boxes because Disney is a strong IP as well. Not strictly related, but I want to get some Miles Morales stuff... Not sure what, but he's apparently a very very very popular character for some reason

Yes OP, Pokemon cards are a good investment, not that modern over printed trash, tho.

>>55211766
Stick to the game you like and you’re passionate about. If you go outside the top 3 then I’d assume buying sealed is best since they’re mostly new IPs. A lot of people who collect TCG on average are dumb as fuck. If you’re an autist who can learn the nuances and potential scarcity issues with certain sets you might get a 50% gain in 5 years. COLLECTIBLES DO NOT HAVE UTILITY. You cannot live in a PSA graded card, so don’t go crazy. It’s unlikely that people will stop giving a shit about cards overnight, but it could be a slow burn down, that is entirely possible. Think about whether anyone will give a shit about the cards you buy in 15 years. Beanie baby comparison is apt for the vast majority of cards.

>>55211958
>You cannot live in a PSA graded card, so don’t go crazy
No, but you can play the game, which is a utility that sports cards do not have. However, normalfags love sportsball, so the interest base is higher. I don't believe in paying a graded premium unless it actually is a rare, special card
>people that got thousands of modern commons graded
why.jpg

>You might get a 50% gain in 5 years
Typically with MTG sets, it's a 5-7 year delay after the print run ends where the prices have stabilized and begin to slowly creep up in value. They will not appreciate well until then, and it will take typically 10-15 years before they average out to 8-10% ROI. They also are illiquid, and you can expect to get 70-80% market value after account for margin (taxes, fees, shipping, ebay, loss, etc)

>Beanie baby comparison is apt for the vast majority of cards
Singles yes, due to reprint policies. Some people still prefer reserve list MTG cards, but the great thing with sealed is that it's a one-way conversion. Sealed is going to naturally be more scarce compared to singles.

Here's a chart of some shit I've been tracking from here >>55211398

>>55211997
Modern sealed is not unequivocally a good investment. But I don’t know much about MTG. Nobody can predict the future anyway. I like vintage Yugioh stuff myself.

>>55211335
no lol

>>55212128
Take notes kids, this is why people are poor

>>55212558
What's your avg ROI?

>child card game
Cringe

>basedboy trans kids increase
>pokemon card value increase
Simple

>>55213753
Imagine caring about anything the than the potential profit margin.
Your opinion on the social implications isn't needed or even valid.
Tell everyone what you spend money on that has a higher ROI or fuck off.

>>55213768
Take a shower

>>55213775
I already did, with enough hot water to quench your village.

>2015
>Bought a Base Set 2 Charizard for the novelty of owning the classic Charizard art for $80
>Not long after, the price of all zards mooned
>I bought the cheaper one instead of a shadowless or 1st ed
Fuck me dead

>>55213732
I'm up about $50k so far, around a 2.5x from my initial buy in. Expecting these to moon heavily with crypto and all other assets following bitcoins halving in 2024. I'll sell majority then, and buy back in during the next black swan

>>55211766
I love Weiss but I only buy to collect and occasionally play. I think trying to profit significantly on it is a lost cause.

>>55211791
That one's worth apparently 300$ on ebay.
I used to own that exact same holo as well...
Not really too bummed out about it though

>>55211390
Heya ash

Also buy boxes that haven't popped off yet. Pic related, bought for $30 and price has tripled since I got it since they will never reprint more.

Cards lose value, boxes only go up

>>55211335
As long as it is under 3% of your portfolio and you wait for a good buy in price it can be a good investment. If you look at the ten/twenty years trend lines for sealed product it goes up exponentially but goes down linearly.

>>55211335
you tell me

>>55211335
>Are Pokemon cards a good investment
For the next 30~40 years, while millennials are alive and have money. Honestly, millennials have not hit peer buying power. It might be a really good investment.

>>55218217
>All zero bids

>>55211412
WHOAAA 10 DOLLARS???!

>>55211335
depends. are you a fucking retard? then yeah

>>55219584

>>55211398
In 20 years the boomers who play Pokeman will be dead fag and the milenials x cucks are to poor to afford the current pokemans sets so there’s no future market

>>55211335
>GameStop Lechonk

Will probably be worth a few pennies once GameStop goes out of business

Do you have absolutely mint condition cards now sealed or boxed in display case? Then maybe you could get some pocket change for them.
Do you have 100s that were used back in the day, even if the card is rare? Then no, worthless junk.

>>55211335
You're better off spending any money on pokemon cards on penny stocks.

>>55211390
Calm down Gary, you've got enough work to do taking down CZ

>>55221873
>GameStop Lechonk
The card, flavor, and abilities basically sum up /gme/ threads lel

>>55211398
20 years how many x?

>>55222825
Depends; if we knew which boxes would perform the best, we'd just buy those ones.

Champions, Betrayers, and Saviors of Kamigawa came out 2004-05 or so; usually a distributor gets a box at $90 a box shipped. Respectively, they are $1590, $525 and $545 a box each.
So for 18 years of waiting, you see a return of 98%, 32%, and 34%, or an average of about 49%, annualized.

The exact numbers will vary based on your cost basis, demand for the box (Kamigawa was poorly received set initially, so less printing, but became very popular later when more weebs latched onto Magic long after it stopped printing). You'll still have an overhead for storage, shipping, and it's illiquid so you'll have to sell below market value to get it sold etc etc. Usually the overhead is about 20%, so you'll still average out to about 30-40% APY or so.

This also depends on collectors being around 20 years from now - but given that the game has so much money tied up into it, as long as Hasbro exists, so will the game and playerbase.

Generational interest.
Same reason N64 and GameCube games slowly rose and fell in price.
People age.
Those people are edging 40 now and already got their childhood out of their system at 30.
It's usually 15 years. Beyond that are antique collectors and shit gets niche because there's no one left to actually care.

>>55223329
Also worth noting is that depending on how many you have and how you sell them (in person/online vs storefronts like ebay/tcgplayer) you should be able to sell them under the table and have tax exempt income (cash). Think of it almost like an art asset that rich folk use to avoid taxes, transferring wealth around.

>>55218217
>posting a pic of auctions that are still ongoing

kek imagine being this fucking retarded

>>55211354
fpbp

>>55211387
Thanks for mentioning this. I won't bump the thread.

>>55223354
Pokemon will outlive all of us.
Interest will probably still be around for maybe another 100 yrs.

>>55223687
Be honest, you have absolutely no way of knowing that

>55222222

>>55222222

>>55223557
>>55218217
Best thing is to average out the sold listings from buy it now

>>55211335

Collectibles are trash, don't do it man.

>>55211627
>3 mana to kill original charizard
>would need 8 mana on charizard and 2 plus power to kill this
>basic
What the fuck is this

>>55211791
legendary collection reverse holographics are big brain tier

No. There is no passive yield, limited liquidity, questionable long term demand.
All long term returns you attain will depend entirely on finding some foolish collector to pay you more than what you previously paid for the same cards. That's all it is, a ponzi that flips from collector to larger collector until most of the interested population dies or moves on, and then its worth nothing.

You may achieve some profits if you work hard, but this is not due to a successful passive "investment".
Rather, it's more like a personal wage for maintaining an active ebay account (or running your own site), for doing research and picking the popular cards, taking pictures, setting up efficient shipping plan, etc. It's all work. It all takes time (and space), it all adds up.
Also, you'll owe taxes on profits at the collectibles bracket which goes upwards of 28%. If you don't keep good records of your costs throughout the entire lifetime of your collection, you're at risk of getting completely fucked over by an IRS audit when they realize you're generating 10k+ in revenue you're not reporting.

Naturally, people who have already been sitting on piles of this trash for 10+ years will tell you its an amazing opportunity. Their only way to earn a profit is by convincing future retards to buy their bags.

>>55218217
>0 bids
Woah I'm listing my charizard for 6 gorillion and retiring

>>55223329
>Champions, Betrayers, and Saviors of Kamigawa came out 2004-05 or so; usually a distributor gets a box at $90 a box shipped. Respectively, they are $1590, $525 and $545 a box each.
>So for 18 years of waiting, you see a return of 98%, 32%, and 34%, or an average of about 49%, annualized.
>98%
>annualized
lol

>>55224556
>Book is $270
>Market is $2,660
>Time is 18
>Total return is 9.85x
>Averages to 3.28x / 18 = 0.18
Wait what how the fuck did I calculate that

>>55224219
why do so many NPCs just bring up Beanie Babies everytime someone talks about pokemon. Lol seethe and cope

>>55224472
the cope is kind of unreal im going to be honest

>>55224599
Honestly still a pretty great return. Hard to see a high IRR on anything over such an extended period, without actively timing and shifting holdings. S&P500 has been around 10%, accounting for dividends. But over time that small gap makes the difference between seeing a 5x and 20x.

>>55224670
It's good to set expectations.

>>55224649

because like beanie babies, the fad will die out and you'll be left with worthless junk