/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>5504091
What country?

dont be stupid
that makes no sense

Pay it up faggot. You clicked a few buttons here & there, and shitposted on 4chan for the whole year. You really think you're going to get away with that?

>>5504156
usa home of the free

>>5504183
bitcoin.tax is autistic
I WANT MY 20 DOLLARS BACK

>>5504363
you paid for this service?

>>5504363
>I WANT MY 20 DOLLARS BACK
Nigga, that shit's free

>>5504241
Kek

Clearly you're retarded OP.

>>5504417
im gonna try to help you out

I will assume that all your crypto trading were short term gains (things you held for under 1 year before selling)


this means the gains from your trading is counted as normal income. if you have a job and made 50k, and then you made 20k from trading, you have an income of 70k to declare for the year.
this number puts you in a certain tax bracket. according to this chart i just googled for 2017, it means you will owe $5226.25 + 25% of the excess over $37950.

70k - 37950 = 32050
32050 * .25 = 8012.5
8012.5 + 5226.25 = $13238.75 taxes owed this year (without getting into deductions and other things that would reduce this number)

so first you need to figure out your income for the year to really know how much tax you will be paying senpai

>>5504091
U did it wong

>>5504651
i worked two weeks at some shitty flower place
i cashed out about 10k this year on coinbase
bitcoin.tax is saying i have 70k in trades
are they going off the current price of BTC or something?

>>5504651
but isn't that only if you cash out? As long as its in crypto its still just an asset and non-taxable until an actual FIAT exchange occurs.

>>5504512
fuck you, not if you do more than 20 trades you negroe

>>5504888
tether counts as USD

>>5504856
it werks for me, you sure you're not doing something wrong?

>>5504856
>>bitcoin.tax is saying i have 70k in trades
i dont really know how that site works to be honest

if your starting capital was like, 5k lets say
and you cashed out 10k (to fiat)
I would declare 5k in profits

>>5504888
yes

>>5504924
doubtful

>>5504891
I have done plenty more than 20 trades and there were no issues. I think you might just be retarded.

>>5504924
yeah but if you transfer from USD to BTC, BTC to ETH, ETH to Tether, and then Tether back into LTC, you haven't cashed out. Your funds are still in Crypto.

If your shit is in a crypto at the end of the year and not cash, you won't be taxed because its still in a liquid asset that will vastly change in value from Dec 31st to April when you actually put in your taxes.

So if you just have all your shit in crypto as a risk investment of an asset, you haven't gained anything have you?

>>5504985
yeah fuck that website im beat for my 20
bitcoin.tax sucks

/thread

Don't use USD anymore. Stop paying the Jews and other subhuman parasites.

>>5505051
nice /pol/post faggot but some of us need USD to survive

>>5504888
Honestly the exchange owns,your funds while you trade. Therefore they should pay the tax on trades.

Or perhaps you can claim massive capital loss on your crypto when you transfer it out of the exchange into,a private wallet.

Claim,you transfered,it,into the wrong wallet and dont have access to,it,anymore: ie massive,capital loss that can then be deducted against gains =0 tax.


Then cash out slowly over years or buy a house directly with bitcoin.

>>5504091
Do you have any losses that you haven't realized by trading out of?

>>5504999
For the last fucking time, it doesn't matter if you do or don't cash out. Every trade is a taxable event based on the fair market value measured in dollars at time of trade.

>>5505051
fuck off retard

>>5505062
Why do you need a shitcoin to survive? Just move to Switzerland, there's places there where you can buy everything you need with crypto.

>>5504999
>>5504985

Tether is kept 1:1 with USD. The IRS will absolutely count it as USD value. It's like cashing out to amazon gift cards. Still a taxable event

>>5505104
because I live in the USA and I pay for my groceries and rent with USD

>JUST MOVE TO SWITZERLAND LOL
there is so much delusion on this board it's fucking insane

>>5505121
>because I live in the USA
Why? They're going to steal a lot of your gains.

>>5505090
>For the last fucking time, it doesn't matter if you do or don't cash out.

if i have a gold bar and i swap it with my buddy for two of his silver bars how the fuck does the government get any tax money from that

you are wrong my dude

>>5505126
Delusion is paying the government 40% so that they can go kill people in other countries and thinking its a fair deal.

>>5505196
Delusion is thinking most people are in the 40% tax bracket and thinking that being in a 40% bracket means your effective tax is 40%. Shut the fuck up you moron. Seriously anyone in this thread, don't listen to anyone on /biz/ about anything regarding taxes. You're going to make horrible mistakes and the government will catch you unless you're a small fry

>>5505170
No. That's how tax for bartering property works. If you buy gold and then trade it for silver with a greater fair market value, you owe taxes based on the difference between that and your cost basis.

>B-but where am I supposed to get the fiat?

The government doesn't care, you owe fiat.

>>5505237
>Most people aren't in the 40% bracket
If you've not made at least $1 million in crypto this year you are clinically retarded.

>>5505277

>>5505237
This.

Fuck IRS. If we define 'making it' as 2M+.
Anyone that makes it should just leave the country.

Lets,face it, we're,not buisness owners. That 2M is likely the only million income we're ever,going,to,get in our lives.

Why pay 40% of that... And, be on the same level as people who make 2M every year as income,from buisness?

Fuck that.

>>5505277
Don't sayyy thissss

>>5505090
learn the difference between realized and unrealized capital gains shitbrick

>>5505170
>>5505276
Here's proof:

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p525#en_US_2016_publink1000229343
>Bartering is an exchange of property or services. You must include in your income, at the time received, the fair market value of property or services you receive in bartering. If you exchange services with another person and you both have agreed ahead of time on the value of the services, that value will be accepted as fair market value unless the value can be shown to be otherwise.


>>5505367
I do know the difference idiot. You don't. I've spent a lot of time researching this topic. According to the IRS, they consider ANY trade of crypto to be "realizing" your gains. If you bought BTC at $1000 and sold it for $10,000 of ANY OTHER PROPERTY, DGB, LINK, ETH, Corn, Wheat, Pigs, Land, a Car, anything that has a fair market value, you realized a capital gain in fair market value and owe short term capital gains in fiat.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

>A-5: For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied.

>A-6: Yes. If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

>>5505367
He's completely right about crypto to crypto being taxed, its why you're a fucking idiot if you stay in the US. The massive capital flight that's going to occur will be great.

If I trade some of my shitcoins that I profited off of on binance for monero, then send the monero to a private wallet, then use that private wallet to buy a couple grand worth of stuff I need on overstock, how will the Jews tax me on taking that profit? Am I in the clear in this situation or will they come knocking on my door asking why $2k worth of XMR disappeared from my binance account?

>>5505521
lol fuck them, the irs has no right to tax a currency that is not issued nor controlled by the US government, it's the equivalent of attempting to tax a foreign country's currency, I'm interested in seeing some court decisions on this matter.

>>5505616
Did you get verified on binance? If not they probably won't find out.

>>5505521
It makes zero sense having to pay before you cash out to fiat. What if I own and am day trading one coin successfully at the beginning of the year but at the end of the year that coins crashes to only 10% of value. Does that mean I would have to pull out every last bit of my investment just to pay the fucking taxable gains from the beginning of the year? WTF?

>>5505624
They already tax you if you are a US citizen who makes money in a foreign country. Learn your tax code you ignorant piece of shit, you don't get to decide what applies to you and when.

>>5505701
the hell I don't this is muricam, they can take my crypto from my cold dead fingers

>>5505665
No, because the losses can offset the profits. You just have to provide the records to back it all up or they'll fuck you - with taxes you're guilty until you prove your innocence.

>>5505665
>Does it mean I'd have to cash out everything just to pay the capital gains
You could sell it to realize a loss so you'd only have to pay the tax on your net gains. Though you'd be prohibited from buying that crypto for 30 days due to the bullshit wash sale rules. Everything about tax laws may as well have been written to fuck over crypto traders, anyone with a seven digit portfolio who stays in the US is a complete cuck.

>>5505749
Ok thanks for clearing that up. All of this is still bullshit though.

>>5505624
They tax you when you make gains in anything. If you make gains in stocks they tax you. If you make gains in precious metals they tax you. If you make gains in crypto of course... they tax you.

>>5505665
Capital losses subtract against capital gains. That's why if you have unrealized losses, you need to take a strategic loss and trade out of them before January 1st so that they subtract. If you don't, you'll be stuck having to pay for those gains. This is why I was asking OP if he has any unrealized losses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States#Strategic_losses

And yes, you either have to liquidate a portion of your portfolio, pay any taxes for liquidating, then use the left over money to pay your other capital gains, or get a second source of income to pay the taxes.

>>5505740
Fine, so they come to you with proof you bought a bunch of crypto but have nothing to show for it except all the shit you bought with your gains.
Either you a) cashed out and bought it all which is taxable, b) traded crypto for items directly, which is barter and taxable, or c) clearly bought drugs and became a mid level dealer so they seize it all as criminal proceeds and send you to prison.

>>5505111
so let say I convert
>1 bitcoin to tether
>then tether to bitcoin
>then bitcoin to tether

how much do I have to pay the based IRS for this?

>>5505774
30 days on losses fucks over day traders too. It's partly to discourage us poorish people from influencing markets like the big boys can with everyone's money.

>>5505795
Taxes just are. You don't like them move somewhere that doesn't use them and cash out there, or at least somewhere that taxes you less severely and gives you more benefits for it.

>>5504091
Try entering into bitcoin.tax that you sold everything for fiat at the end and see if the short term gains decrease. If they do, you had unrealized losses.

>>5505847
Touche sir you win this round, fortunately I don't day trade and I've less than $1,000 initial purchase anything I make will be through mining and long term capital gains, which I have no problem paying my taxes on. However I think it's grade A fucking bullshit to tax crypto to crypto transfers before the gains are realized in USD, and will always have this opinion.

>>5504888
No. You can try to claim like exchange for this year. You may not get that if the irs fights it. Then every trade you make is considered a realization of profits or loss. So every time you trade and are profitable, you owe taxes.

>>5504891
It’s 100 I believe.

>>5505906
What values changed and in what direction? It's your job to keep track or they will assume in their favour.
Also losses due to paying fees don't count as losses.

>>5505929
>30 days on losses fucks over day traders too.
Far less, because the market is nowhere near as volatile. Every negative aspect of tax law on stock traders is magnified x1000 on crypto traders.

IF YOU STAY IN THE US YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED.

>>5505988
>believe.
lets say they do not change. then no taxes?

>>5506014
You don't owe taxes if everything stayed flat. Though things don't stay flat so that's a weird hypothetical.

>>5505994
Some of us just got into this within the last few months and can't just pack up and move.

>>5505665
>>5505170
If they didn't force you to pay taxes when you barter in crypto or gold or silver, everybody would have no incentive to use fiat anymore. Everybody would prefer to get their income paid in crypto or precious metals and trade them for stuff and pay 0% taxes.

>>5506074
ok well that's slightly reassuring.
Now lets say
>1 bitcoin to tether
> bitcoin now goes 2x
> tether to .5 bitcoin

how fucked am I?

>>5506133
>if they didn't force you to pay taxes when you trade crypto noone would use fiat
Except we have half the entire world as a counterexample showing that's bullshit.

>>5506187
So in what countries can you get your income paid in gold/silver or crypto and owe no taxes?

>>5506177
in that same regard
>1 bitcoin to tether
> bitcoin halves in price
> tether to 2 bitcoin

Am I ever more fucked?

>>5505624
....you think IRS doesn't tax forex trading gains?

You're doing it wrong, retard. Don't CASH out, buy something with crypto you idiot, then sell that IRL. Voila, no taxing shit. IIRC you can buy bullion with Bitcoin.

>>5505104
>Just move to Switzerland

Yeah very simple

>>5505104
>>5505062

Would this work:
Transfer your money into btc and then push it to cold storage.

Then claim,you sent it to the wrong address and its all gone now.

Claim the lost funds as trading losses which then,offset all gains youve made.

Thereby you have a wallet with btc and no tax burden until you convert to Fiat.

>>5506177
$0 on that part as you still had the same fiat value throughout, though you would owe on the gain from when you bought bitcoin to when you went into tether.
>>5506220
I specified crypto to crypto so most of Europe, Phillippines, Japan, Mexico, South Korea. most latin American countries. The US, UK, and Canada are about the only ones with this bullshit.

GET THE FUCK OUT OF THIS RETARDED COUNTRY

>>5506277
idk much about forex, is it consider realized gains when you go from euro to pound with a gain in value? or is it still unrealized until you get to usd?

>>5506302
dropped

>>5506329
so is the tracking all the transactions the difficult part or is it that you could hypothetically end up owing more taxes than you actually earned?

>>5505994
That's not the IRS's fault, and was not the intention. The tax codes haven't had time to be properly adjusted to crypto yet so they just adapted the current laws instead of writing new ones so they get something out of it.

Everyone acts like the tax man is after them specifically because they have mad crypto gains, when it's just this is the first time some of them have ever had to pay above the minimum tax bracket and are shocked at what people who earn a livable wage have to fork over.

Also, I'm in Canada and fully intend to pay what I owe, I benefit from actually affordable care.

>>5506278
That's barter and taxable based on the fiat value of what you bought with the crypto.

>>5506322
I don't think they'll see a transfer loss as equal to a trading loss.
I can't just empty my bank accounts and bury it all in a suitcase and say I lost all my money and owe no taxes.

>>5506472
The worst bit is that you could end up having a loss that you have to count as a gain.
>Buy 100BTC worth of alt for 1k sats when bitcoin is $1000
>alt goes to 700 sats
>bitcoin goes to $10000
>lose 30 BTC on trade
>owe 24 BTC in taxes

>>5506529
>Its not the government's fault
Sure its not, its not as if they didn't just produce legislation confirming that like-kind isn't permissible or anything.
>I'm Canadian
No wonder you're such a fucking cuck then.

>>5506329
Canada isn't quite as bullshit, every accountant and adviser I've talked to has said that unless you trade heavily and have 100s of thousands in gains they only want your cashed out gains.

>>5506593
God the US is cucked for the next 3 years.

>>5506681
Like-kind was never permissible, it's still barter. You just always had to track it yourself so nobody did - now that exchanges do it automatically nobody who uses then has an excuse.

>No wonder you're such a fucking cuck then.
I'm not the one losing 36% of my earnings every year in return for the joy of then also paying for medical services, if I can even find a doctor willing to treat me.

>>5506773
>not knowing the definition of "confirming"
You said that it wasn't the intent to fuck us and the law just hadn't caught up yet, that's demonstrably not the case when they're making sure to confirm the current state.
>implying I'm staying in the US
Moving in two weeks.

>>all these people giving their money to IRS
why not send me your money instead if you like throwing it away

>>5506681
I don't even see where you're getting the 24 btc from to be honest

>>5506773
>I'm not the one losing 36% of my earnings every year in return for the joy of then also paying for medical services, if I can even find a doctor willing to treat me.

As a leaf in the medical field.

lol, enjoy your quality care given by pajeet and muhammed you cuck.

>>5504651
I come to /biz/ to laugh at retarded shit like shit. You people have literally no idea how to calculate capital gains tax.

>>5506891
>you had 100 BTC when bitcoin was $1k, $100k of BTC and bought an alt with it
>you sold the alt at a loss and now have 70 BTC of bitcoin at $10k, $700k of BTC
>you owe taxes on 40% of the $600k "gain", $240k
>$240k in cuckbucks is 24BTC while BTC is $10k

>>5506828
If they haven't done it yet nothing has changed, you're all just acting like it has.
Cash out while it's in progress and move and they buy back in.

Oh wait, renouncing the US means they hit you with an exit tax, because just leaving and not renouncing means they'll still tax you wherever you go.

>>5504091
>PAYING TAXES
>EVER

>>5482631

>>5482631

REMINDER THAT BITFLUR IS KING

>>5506941
whats wrong with that post
it was assuming short term capital gains

capital gains tax is for long term assets held over one year

>>5507003
Oh I'm definitely renouncing.
>exit tax
I'm only cashing out $400k for now, they aren't going to find out how much I actually have.
>They'll still get you
Please find me a single case of them going after an expat years after they give up citizenship.

>>5506905
My local hospital is the most advanced in western Canada and I have had specialists provided for free for the past 18 years, so it's working out fine for me.

Hell, I never would have survived in the States in the mid 80s with their general state of health care and costs.

>>5504091
you're taxed on gains, but can't deduct losses, unless you had a net loss, and that only goes up to 3k. so if you for example trade 1k up to 1M then make a lot of really dumb trades that brings you down to 2k, you can't say you only made 1k and that's your taxable income, you are responsible for taxes on gains for every trade that brought you up to 1M, which would probably be in the six figures, even though your net gain was only 1k.

fucked, isn't it?

>>5507061
Its impressive really.

>>5506941
The amount of people I have to explain tax brackets to every year is astounding.
I know people who passed on good raises because they worked it out as losing more on taxes than they'd earn.

>>5507104
No, your mistaken. Capital losses deduct from capital gains. You can only deduct 3k of net loss from your other INCOME TAXES, the rest you can carry over to next year.

>>5504091
You didn’t input all your exchanges. Make sure you connect everything you traded to bitcoin tax, including any Coinbase purchases. Mine came out to something ridiculous because there was an error where it couldn’t find where I initially purchased all my Ethereum.

>>5504091
>He doesn't understand realized gain

Bruh just report your gains whenever you actually cash out relative to your investment and your base income for your tax bracket.

>>5506957
ahh because of the needed conversion back to BTC. However shouldn't it all balance due to

>under the logic of the Internal Revenue Code, any losses may not be deductible if the transaction was personal in nature. Only losses on transactions entered into for profit or in the course of a trade or business are deductible.

>>5507118

what is impressive

But I only made [Unknown amount] Monero this year

>>5507084
I meant if you just left and didn't go expat they'd get you whenever you tried to go back at any point. Going expat "liquidates" everything they know about for tax purposes and that's the last bill AFAIK.

>>5507152
so really, wouldn't all the net gain/losses add up to your cash in amount vs cash out amount?

>>5507104
kys

>>5507181
>deductible losses
We're talking about fiat gains here, that is completely irrelevant to the discussion. Also its not personal in nature regardless. That's talking about when you're doing things at a loss to help out someone you know.

>>5507216
WHY THE FUCK WOULD I WANT TO COME BACK TO THIS BULLSHIT?

>>5507166
No. You don't. Show me the form that just says "how much was ur investment and how much did u cash out this year?"

>>5504091

>paying taxes on untraceable assets

Withdraw Money into overseas account, put that shit in a cardboard box and ship it to yourself.

>>5507249
Yeah it would. They still make you report each trade on Form 8949 or 1099B to make money laundering harder. Also different rates apply to short term and long term capital gains so they want to know all the details of every trade.

>>5507261
Because most Americans actually never want to really give up being American. They've been taught that they are the best people in the world goddammit and will rarely sever that connection willingly.

>>5507345
that's annoying but.. not as bad as some people are making it out to be. such this guy:

>>5507261

I think if you can send them a history of all transactions so they can audit if need be this is fine. People will have scripts to automate this in no time.

>>5507371
The principles this country was built on have been dead for longer than I've been alive, its a decaying corpse at this point and the impending massive capital flight will serve it right.

>his property isn't rigged with live grenades

>he doesn't pay his private security to "hunt down and make examples out of" repo men.

What part of the non-aggression principle do you guys not understand?

You only have one life, don't waste it by willingly cucking yourself.

>>5507446
>>5507249
>>5507345
>not as bad as this guy is making it out
You're assuming that the person wants to cashout, you have to pay those taxes whether you wanted to cash out or not.

>this entire thread
If people this stupid can make money in this, you know it's not really worth anything.

>>5507446
The worst thing about it is it forces you to cash out some every year if you made enough short term capital gains where you can't pay it with your other income. If they let you file as like-kind you could defer the taxes until you finally cash out, so you could keep your money in crypto for longer periods of time. But in the end it works out to the same amount of money paid in taxes.

>>5507556
No, the worst thing about it is that they classify a loss as a gain. If I have fewer bitcoins than I started with on a trade I lost money, I didn't gain money. I don't give a fuck about their cuckbucks.

>>5507507

>He hasn't moved to a non-extradition country
>he doesn't scan a picture of his dick and balls and mail it to the IRS with a copy of your gains every year
>he doesn't clandestinely fund several underground ancap groups

>>5507556
if it works out to the same taxes paid then honestly this is a mild(ish) inconvenience. When I first found out about this I was thinking.. so crypto-trading is defacto dead and the only thing that will survive is normie hodling Bitcoin because of the 1 million dollars in 2020 meme

>>5507598
I see that. If you're a bad trader and bitcoin outperformed you, you double fucked yourself because not only do you now have to pay short term capital gains measured in fiat, you lose the beneficial long term tax rate.

>>5504241
fuck its so true it hurts

>>5507598
sure cuckbucks yes. But, a bitcoin or a US dollar is still tied to whatever its purchasing power is. If you purchasing power, it doesn't matter what store of value you lost it in

>>5504091
you did it wrong mongoloid

If you live in the USA, simply get out!

And you will have to discard your citizenship, otherwise the taxman can chase you anywhere in the globe, that is the fate of someone born in burgerland.

My advice, take some of gains in crypto and move to a country that has tax-free crypto laws, learn the language, take a citizen test and voilá, you're now a free man.

>>5507666
if you lose purchasing power*

>>5507635
Exactly, I mean most of my trades haven't been losing trades but even the couple that there were was enough to push me over the edge and get things in line to move.
>>5507666
You'd have a point if bitcoin's purchasing power wasn't increasing over time.

>>5507664
>wow so true~

how is it any different from a professional stock trader clicking his buttons

income is income and you pay taxes on income

>>5507753

Taxation is theft, dipshit.

>>5507791
fair enough, I wasnt really arguing that point

>>5507791
So leave and stop living off other's tax dollars.

>>5507846

I'm not a nigger, mexican, single mom or military welfare queen so I'm not living off anyone's taxes

>>5507846
Not everyone is a nigger taking government handouts like you.

>>5507731
ehh.. its not doing so by magic. It increases because of a network effect. It's value is proportional the amount of people who want to hold bitcoin in anticipation of further people coming in to hold. You'd find yourself in the same situation with any asset class. Bitcoin hasn't been classed as a currency in the US ever, and explicitly so since 2014. The point is, we can still make mad gains from moon mission pump and dumps. And if you start making real cash like millions in this, set up a shell company in switzerland to hold the assets. Every other major us company does this. Or move abroad, since you're rich

>>5507874
but you probably went to public school, used the public energy grid, were protected by the public police force, firefighters, ambulances, military etc etc etc...

>>5507874
Roads, police, general infrastructure, bridges, all paid with taxes. You went to school? That's taxes to an extent too, that's why there's an exit tax when you renounce, because they expect you to pay back some of what was spent on you.

>>5504417
paid for shitty ass kek

>>5507912
>You'd find yourself in the same situation with any asset class.
Bullshit. There's no other asset class where you have to "sell" it to buy a different thing in that class and pay taxes on that "sell". Crypto to crypto should not have any tax implications because 99.9% of crypto lacks any fiat pairing.
>Or move abroad
That's what I'm doing because the regulations are utter bullshit and you're sucking the IRS off after they fuck you in your ass.

>>5507922
>you probably went to blah blah blah blah

All the "good" things the government does is maybe 5% of the tax budget. I say good because the school system is awful and the police steal more from the people than criminals do. (See: civil forfeiture) The garbage part of the budget is 95%. I'd gladly take a 5% income tax if I received everything you mentioned and nothing more. The government harms more than it helps is my point

>>5507943
>Roads
Again, such a small percentage of the tax. It's basically pointless. It's like saying a child should be grateful to their abusive parents because they housed them. Please, I'd gladly do without.

>>5507999
Leave and never come back.

>>5508050

Fuck off NIGGER. The government is simply an organized gang.

>>5507883
I don't take handouts. The only time I wasn't working was when I would have blinded myself doing anything remotely physical and I returned to my 70 hour a week job as soon as I was able.

>>5507943
>That's why there's an exit tax
What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you trolling? The US is only one out of four countries in the entire world to impose this and provides far fewer services than most so even if you're a boot licking socialist you ought to see it as bullshit.

>>5508066
Have fun dying in a terrorist bombing.

>>5507446
There already are scripts that automate this. Like the one OP mentioned Bitcoin.tax It lets you import csv's of all your trade histories and export Form 8949. Then from there you can total up the short term and long term gains and put them on Your 1040 Schedule D.

>>5508089
>I don't take handouts
Weren't you going on about your fantastic socialized healthcare earlier?

>>5508112

>mfw the Gov funds terrorism so it would just prove me right

>>5507996
Odd how you didn't have enough of a problem with the tax laws until they affected you personally, if only you could afford to influence the law I bet you would, you temporarily embarrassed millionaire you.

>>5508131
>at least I'll be right when I'm dead

Mr. Whale- What are your thoughts on TRX?

Worth holding?

>>5508099
I'm Canadian, we have that too.
>>5508130
Yes, and I've paid tens of thousands into it gradually so I can utilize it when I need it and not be hit with a massive bill when I am injured and least able to pay it.

>>5508153
Funerals cost a few thousand and inheritance (not just estate) tax is still a thing in the US.

>>5508152
>implying I didn't have a problem with the tax laws before
Even when I was only making $20k/year I thought it was bullshit how much higher income people had to pay.
>if only you could afford to influence the law I bet you would, you temporarily embarrassed millionaire you.
>embarassed billionaire
FTFY, more expensive to demand tax change than you seem to think.
>>5508261
>I'm Canadian, we have that too
Yeah, you're one of the four retard.

15k person pump and dump Discord group, you’re welcome: https://discord.gg/2cdm62j.. Our next pump is in about 1 day 10 hours.

>>5508298
I meant I know and don't care that I have a potential exit tax. I used tax dollars and therefore owe back tax dollars, adjusted to match the equivalent of what I used.

I don't agree with most of what Trudeau's government is doing, much like I didn't totally care for Harper's, but Canada's system works pretty good. Not that I'd expect Americans to understand a workable adaptation of socialism, you've been raised to fear it without trying to understand it.

>>5508353

>>5508426
>I used tax dollars and owe them back
Wait, I thought you didn't take handouts? I thought you'd already paid for those services. If that's the case you shouldn't owe anything, except you just love to be fucked over so you'll take it and ask for more.
>Not that I expect Americans to understand thievery, you've been raised to hate thieves
Gee, I wonder why I don't like people trying to rob me. Probably because I'm not a masochist like you.

http://bitcoinist.com/cryptocurrency-investors-lose-tax-break/

>>5507943
Wrong, I went to private school.

And in the US most tax dollars go to social security and medical care, followed by defense spending. We don't even spend our tax dollars correctly. Fuck this, I'm out.

>If you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien, the rules for filing income, estate, and gift tax returns and paying estimated tax are generally the same whether you are in the United States or abroad. Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside.

>Non-dom citizens need only pay tax on their UK income – meaning if they have investments or offshore bank accounts, they can legally leave these undeclared, and pay no UK tax on the balance.

>mfw non dom
>mfw trade through trust in the isle of man

>>5508520
wow WTF. that's legitimate rape.

>>5508492
As a child I used services provided by taxes. While I do not owe my parents for raising me as it was their choice, I do owe the country as a whole for providing me with access to basic necessities and education.

>>5508492
You robbed them first - only your parents made a choice in your existence, but other people paid for things you used before you became a productive member of society.

>>5508643
yes but it also says it doesnt start until next year

so what this guy said here >>5505521
i think does not apply yet

>>5508520
I hate jews so much.

>>5508675
>he's naive enough to think state education was for his benefit
>he doesn't realise he was brainwashed to be a serf in a massive social-economic conglomerate
>he will die poor

>>5508726
why
you should hate your elected officials who passed this

>>5508675
>You robbed them first - only your parents made a choice in your existence, but other people paid for things you used before you became a productive member of society.
Such as? Parents paid health insurance, parents home schooled me, parents bought me everything.
Let me guess
>m-muh roads


I wish you fucking commies would get the fuck out of crypto. You don't deserve any of your gains, crypto was built by libertarians and you make money from us and turn around and use it to support the very entities we want to starve.

>>5508571
Then make sure that people who spend tax dollars the way you think are put in charge. Start a revolution if that's what it takes (and at this point it does) and stop leaving the problem for everyone else to deal with by running away.

Oh wait you and the other taxation is theft guy got yours so it's time to get out, right?

>>5508520
>>5508684
We never had that "tax break". The IRS never provided any guidelines to report as like-kind. If you look at the 2 page form to report 1 like-kind exchange it's clearly not appropriate for crypto. Everyone says it's a surefire way to get the deferral rejected and get yourself audited if you attempt to file as like-kind.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf

>>5508793
>How dare you try to avoid the robbers, if you don't murder the robbers and anyone supporting the robbers you're just awful
>this is your brain on statism
I'm dreadfully sorry that I don't want to have to try to kill millions of people.

>>5508793

The US can't be helped. The people are laboring under more than a corrupt government; They have a slave mentality. They LOVE the government which steals from them. I see no reason to stick around on this sinking ship

>>5508736
Richer than anyone I know who didn't inherit. Richer than most of my extended family combined because I worked for it, invested it, and didn't throw it all away on temporary shit.

>>5508773
Yeah, all those premined coins were to benefit the whole world and not just whoever got in first. You libertarians will lap up whatever antitaxation bullshit people feed you because you're so obsessed with fucking the government you don't realize you're fucking everyone else.
But hey, you got yours you bootstrapping genius.

>>5508839
So you want to benefit off the reward from the change someone else makes instead of you?
Sounds like you sure want to benefit from other people's effort and risk.

>>5508866
So you'll go to another country that other people pay taxes in and benefit off them instead?
Sounds fair, you've earned it being the superior American.

>>5508958

No, because I'd pay for all my own shit.

listen guys you can argue for your ancap principles all day long but in the end we all live in this society and paying taxes is part of that. if you arent off innawoods somewhere then you probably take for granted all the services and infrastructure that you have benefited from your entire life

its better to have made money and pay taxes than to not have made money at all. every business owner knows this.

>>5508975
Except for the roads and infrastructure of course.

>>5509002

This is the mind of a statist. The state pays for the roads so I owe them 40% of my income.

>>5508882
The only people who would get fucked are those who are leeches and they would adjust after realizing that leeching is no longer viable, everyone else would have more assets because bureaucracies are inherently inefficient.
>muh premined coinsMost coins that were mined early on were either lost or sold for pennies.
>people who got in early benefitted
Wow, its almost like there should be incentives to spur adoption or something.
>>5508924
>statist cuck continues to demonstrate his utter lack of morals
No, I don't want to kill millions of people. I realize that you have no issue with murdering massive numbers of people and continue to contribute towards that end with zero qualms.
>>5508958
>you'll go to another country that other people pay taxes in and benefit off of that
>statist cuck doesn't understand that they benefit from capital flight into their country

>>5509031
the state also pays for the military that keeps the barbarians off the gates

>>5509055
>the state also pays to kill a bunch of civilians in other countries for no reason too
Wow, I'm totally convinced now.

>>5509094
thankfully we will never have to find out who would have invaded your home and raped your mother thanks to our long historical tradition of maintaining a standing army

render unto caesar what is caesar's

>>5508977
Get this through your thick skull you utter fucking mongoloid, even Sweden has lower taxes on crypto than the US. If you're an ancap you should be against it because you realize taxation is theft, if you're a socialist you should still be against it because that's a really shit value proposition.
>>5509124
>muh bullshit hypotheticals

>>5509168
its not a bullshit hypothetical its the history of taxation going back to ancient times

>>5509031
So what should your taxes go to?

Why not try and change things instead of running away? I mean you've made enough with your crypto gains to do something useful to fix things right?

>>5509053
So how else is anything gong to get changed? How well have all those protests gone to boot our the Republican administration? How many petitions forced a change?

Anything beyond that just too damn hard for all you big tough Americans so you have to run away from the scary brown g-man with his giant coffee cup?

Be the fucking change you want you to see you selfish shitbag, instead of running away with your pile of money. That's what the rich people who fucked things up are planning, why be like them?

Okay so if my totals gains plus income equals $191,650. I would owe 46,643.75 on that minus what I already paid from my job and minus other deductions.
Does anyone have a source where you can estimate other deductions? Like if I use 60k of that to put a down payment on a 300k house around how much more could I deduct?

>>5509201
No country on earth has a defense budget even 1/3 the size of the US's, its absolutely a bullshit hypothetical.
>>5509261
The change I want to see doesn't involve killing millions, I'm amazed at how fucking stupid you are to keep championing a bloody revolution when I've already told you this.
>How else is anything going to change
Starving the government of all resources and capital flight is one of the best ways to do this. They'll be forced to change as people with wealth leave.

>>5509263
>Like if I use 60k of that to put a down payment on a 300k house around how much more could I deduct?
You can only deduct mortgage interest and some of the closing costs, not the down payment itself and that's assuming that you're itemizing instead of using the standard deduction.

>>5509168
Sweden has a higher tax rate overall, but you only give a shit about crypto because you've never bothered to apply yourself to be above the lowest tax brackets.

Leeches like you only decide taxation as theft is a big problem now that you have your gains on top of no actual income. If it was always such a big issue to you you should have emancipated at 16 and left the country, but you stayed.
Funny how that worked out. If you were always so self sufficient why stick around?

>>5509320
>No country on earth has a defense budget even 1/3 the size of the US's, its absolutely a bullshit hypothetical.

what difference does that make
you (when you were American that is) were passively enjoying all the benefits of living under that military power. You can deny this but it doesnt make it not true.

you decided you would rather forego that benefit and expatriate yourself in order to pay less. thats fine dude, theres nothing wrong with that.

>tfw didnt report 2016 crypto gainz and aint gonna report 2017 gainz

>>5509365
Yeah I did just see that, however I did see that profits on real estate sales aren't taxed at all for the first 250k if you lived there for 2 of the last 5 years. I'm definitely going to use my gains to buy a place since real estate in my city has been going up a lot and rent feels like I'm throwing away money.

>>5509400
>lol why didn't you move at 16
Now you're being intentionally dense, you might be an idiot but even you are aware of how much it costs to change countries.
>>5509416
>you were enjoying the benefits of living under that military power
There are none. There is absolutely no reason to the massively outsized military we have. As far as drawbacks there's living everyday knowing that you're taking part in killing innocents.

>>5509320
Like I said before, even if people leave they still pay either exit tax to expat or pay on their foreign earnings so the US government (regardless of who's in charge) doesn't give a shit.
The slightly rich middle class leaving just means the wealth inequality will get worse and those who remain at the bottom will be less able to do anything about it, violent or not.
Things are reaching a tipping point and if everyone with the time to do anything sits around planning their own cowardly way out, nothing good will happen.

>>5509469
there are definitely benefits to being the strongest military in the world

nobody can invade you, your freedom as an american citizen is secure

whos to say we wouldnt have been part of the soviet union right now if we didnt have our military budgets

>>5509469
Of course there is, the free trade we have now world wide has never happened before. The reason it exists is because the US military.

>>5509535
that one you can call a hypothetical

>>5509511
>nothing good will happen to the country if those propping it up leave
Of course nothing good will happen, its a decaying corpse. The sooner it dies the sooner something better will replace it.
>>5509535
We could pay 5% of what we do on military spending and it would still be more than enough.
>muh Russia
Russia would have never been able to invade the US, they couldn't have handled the logistics of invading across an entire ocean to fight us in our own land.
>>5509572
>US military enables free trade
If that were true every country in the world should be paying us for the service and as they are not its a shit value proposition for the American taxpayer.

>>5509469
Is it less than you've paid in taxes in the interim, if so you've been throwing away money this whole time.
Hell, there are some states with no state level income tax, just go there and you're saving money.

>>living everyday knowing that you're taking part in killing innocents

If you are taking responsibility for that and haven't pulled the trigger yourself, that's pretty pathetic. That's right up there with believing you carry white guilt, and of all the shit you've said so far that's the dumbest.

And you call me brainwashed.

>>5509440
>yfw they audit your bank account

>>5509636
>Hell, there are some states with no state level income tax
Already live in one.
>>5509636
>If you give money to someone that you know uses the bulk of it to buy weapons to murder innocents with you have no culpability
Not surprising that a statist employs mental gymnastics to excuse himself from harming others.

>>5509535
Freedumbs, because you have to be dumb as fuck to believe it

>>5509726

okay replace the word freedom with sovereignty

is that better

>>5509707
You can't force someone to use something you gave them a certain way, it's not yours to dictate any more and not your responsibility.
If you sold someone a car and they hit someone would that be your fault? That's a more direct link than tax money being scattered to various departments.

>>5509812
>If you sold someone a car and they hit someone would that be your fault?
It would be if you knew at the time you sold it to them that they were such a reckless driver that you could state with near certainty that they'd hit someone.

>>5509889
Yet even then you can't legally refuse them the transaction, so again how are you to blame if they would have (and did) go next door and get yet another car?

You aren't and can't be held responsible for the actions of anyone but yourself and, in limited circumstances in a certain time period from birth, your children.

Is it my fault that Trudeau sent money to Africa and Asia that could have saved more lives here? No, so I don't lose sleep over what I can't change. I don't decide to just run away though, I try to effect change where I can at the local level to improve the situation for myself and those around me despite what the federal government decides to do.

>>5504091
haha guys just come to Belarus! No taxation on anything related to crypto AT ALL!

>>5510801
Oppressive, still totalitarian, smaller fake Russia? No thanks