/biz/ - Business & Finance

Just pay your fucking taxes

Nobody escapes the IRS for long.

>>5481039
well with the new tax plan you can take out up to like 415k or something for only 15%. im also a crypto millionaire but i think thats reasonable enough so i stopped caring and cashed some out recently

>>5481104
how do
not a millionaire, just for future reference

>hard earned
>clicking some buttons and wait for years
How fat are you?

I'm also holding onto over 800k and I don't think there is anyway escaping them bro. Just pay your taxes and move on. It sucks but I'd rather pay whatever then sit in jail.

I am nowhere near a millionaire but I am wondering about this as well.
I live in Japan, have been here for 6 years. I am under the safe harbor law because I don't live in california, thus no california taxes, and I qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion clause because I make less than 96k, so I basically only pay taxes to Jaoan currrently.

How is crypto gonna work? Am I gonna have to pay 40% to JP and another 40% to the US?

How did you guys get this rich? Got in early into bitcoin?

>>5481131
>implying the stress involved, lost sleep, lost friendships, weight gained, amount of learning required, time spent on everything doesn't contribute to being hard earned especially if you make millions, "luck" or not.

OP Here.
Why should I pay the taxes when theres no record of most of my trades and initial buy-in of BTC?
I can technically cash out Over the Counter, and keep all of it but I'd only be set for life on groceries since I cant make large purchases like for Lambos or Property without it being on record right?

>>5481126
how do what?

>>5481039
Uncle Sam gets his cut. Don't be an idiot. Tax evasion, money laundering and wire fraud will put you in a cage for 20 fucking years.

>>5481152
I looked at crypto 24/7 for like 4 months turning 30k to 1.5mil+
Still in great physical shape and appearance though, just lonely af haha

>>5481161
You're high as fuck if you don't think there will be one trigger or one mistake in doing all that and keeping the money.

ONE mistake is all it takes and you're done. Is it worth it? ask yourself that

>>5481188
Any tips?

>>5481039
There was a thread about taxes from earlier

>>5465608

You’re welcome niggers

Either /biz/ is on a moral crusade again or the damage control kikes are going full retard
Hodl until a nation embraces cryptocurrency

>>5481213
Thanks a lot!

>>5481179
>new tax plan you can take out up to like 415k or something for only 15%.
how do this
what is it called, what should i google, i hate taxes

>>5481199

ya, just lie on the internet

>>5481161

just pay the freaking tax and move on, you just got a gift from God and you want to gamble it away against the US government. Mate, good luck retard

>>5481240
im telling him to just pay the 15% dude. i was just telling him hes wrong about 30% now, cause trump just changed it on what... thursday?

>>5481188
what kind of things do you want to buy with your money?

>being american

>>5481278
i know, its god awful

>>5481242
Why would you do that?

>>5481240
go to HR block or some shit

Would buying a mansion in a resort island as secretly as possible work?

>>5481278
>le free american maymay
You realize other western countries are just as fucked when it comes to memecoin taxation right?
Obligatory whiter than you muhammad comment

>>5481039
Donate some money to charity and you'll get a tax cut.

>there are people who browse /biz/ - Business & Finance and unironically discourage others from trying to decrease their #1 expense (taxes)

is this just an american thing? have you guys been so brainwashed by big bad gov?

>>5481254
>
Hey I just checked and the difference in the taxes due to this new legislation only lowered rates from 39.7 to like 37%. Long term capital gains tax seems lower though. Where do you see this 15%?

>>5481316
But in other countries they don't have the time or energy to track you as hard as the IRS would

>>5481363

This, why is everyone on this board not trying to find loopholes like the rich do? How do you think those fuckers stay rich?

>>5481314
Are you really that dense?

>Hard earned
Come on now

Long-term capital gains is the 15%, up to a certain amount. You are cashing out way too much to qualify for 15% under short-term gains.

>>5481363
I find this surprising too, you'd kill to increase your portfolio by 20% in a single trade. This is what it is.

>>5481039
If you are serious about this send me an email so we can talk further. I can help.

ladydew420@gmail.com

>>5481370
I think its for long term holds for people in poverty, but even with all that i think it has to be less than 47k cash out

Move to Europe or Canada. You'll still pay taxes but at least it'll look like the money was well spent.
I still don't get how you guys can pay 30% and get no healthcare, education or decent infrastructure.

>>5481380
Yeah
But I'm not American so I don't know to which extent the IRS emasculates you, soyboy

>>5481254
no, short term is still 30+ im pretty sure.

question, if i live in texas, does this apply to me as there isnt an income tax?

/biz/ is retarded when it comes to taxes. You are supposed to pay short term capital gains every time a gain is realized. All crypto to crypto trades are taxed. It doesn't matter if you haven't cashed out, a gain was realized. If you hold a crypto for over a year and cash out, you pay long term capital gains. Long term capital gains tax on crypto is only viable if you hold BTC or ETC since they are the only two you can trade for cash (legally speaking). Check the 2017 tax bracket to see the amount of tax you are supposed to pay.

>>5481063
Worst advice ever. If you can't figure out why, or you are one of those people who believes paying your taxes is the patriotic thing to do well then... Stay cucked.

>>5481039
You have to leave this scam country called United States, there are ways to turn 100% into true fiat.

>>5481039
Buy billion with Bitcoin. Sell billion back to the exchange of locally for cash. Do less than $10k per day to avoid reporting

>>5481432
This is correct because short-term gains are taxed as ordinary income. Anon's income would reach the top bracket (37% under the new law) but his average tax rate would be slightly lower.

>>5481446
Yes. You will still pay a capital gains tax at the federal level.

>>5481428
I never understood the infrastructure meme.
Can you please elaborate as to how US infrastructure is inadequate?

>>5481039
Move to a country that is not cucked by us financial jew laws. Renounce your US citizenship and live like a king forever!

>>5481476
Right so the rate would still be like 29% total at 418k.

I dont think its hard to convert btc to cash undetected, but how would I spend this cash? Is there a way to buy salvaged luxury cars for cash or like properties with suitcases of cash and have it be under the books? lol

>>5481457
>one of those people who believes paying your taxes is the patriotic thing

absolute premium kek

america was founded on an anti tax, anti establishment movement

also, the same people that encourage you to pay taxes because its 'patriotic' are the same people who actually hate western society

>>5481428
Corporate cancer needs welfare, not enough money for health care or infrastructure because we're Free, and that's the price of freedom

>>5481039
Why cant you just renounce your citizenship and live in Hong Kong or whatever the fuck?

I am trying to get billionaire investors interested in reclaiming land in international waters so we can set up our own tax free state for us all.

>>5481161
Ignorance is bliss, seems to fit you just right
If there is no record of you buying btc then your are fucked even more because then they assume your cost of aquisition to be 0, because you can not prove it
You may sell for cash but you will get 20% less than the market rate, so might as well pay 30% and enjoy the money like a king

>>5481149

also living in japan (since half a year). do you know more about the tax system here regarding cryptos?

>>5481496
>no health free care
>no free education
>scam tax organizations
>scam monopoly companies that pay no taxes
>billions are spent on transporting planes and tanks to other continents where they blow things up for no reason

>>5481149
>Am I gonna have to pay 40% to JP and another 40% to the US?
Move to Iceland or Ireland where they actually JAILED their bankers and their economy is now booming because of it LEL!

>>5481455
Will day trading while holding say 100 eth for a year + 1 day work for long capital gains? Like will they tax you for day trading even if you dont cash out the day traded coins for the 1 year 1 day period?
I understand they can tax the money you had day traded to reach the 100 eth, but would the rest be ok sitting on wallet?

>>retards on here thinking IRS has any clue about your trades on foreign exchanges

>>5481501
>renounce citizenship
Ive seen this meme a few times lately but everywhere seems to require a 5+ year process to do this

>>5481039
Go to Germany, they won't steal your crypto money with taxes

make up a fake church and launder it through there since they don't pay taxes.

>tfw 0% taxes

Godbless this shithole

>>5481524

why would you think people dont report you to the IRS if they suddenly see you having lots of money?

>>5481496
probably our shitty roads
there's so much road in the US that they are always redoing some part of it and there's never enough teams working on it to ever catch up

Nigger fuck your crypto currency

>>5481496
Internet is horrible or handled by monopolies that make you pay twice as much as other countries.
No bullet trains. Underdeveloped public transport.
Slow as fuck highways. I mean who the hell designed the 4 lanes interstate with a 50 mph limit?

>>5481455

But the gain was in satoshis, it's not in fiat. Unlike stocks which are valued against dollars and such and controlled, my thousands of dollars in shitcoins is literally like the government taxing me for trading my magic the gathering cards. Fucking stupid.

>>5481161
>Why should I pay the taxes when theres no record of most of my trades
hahaha do you actually believe this? every exchange records trades even localbitcoin. you can't just deposit money into your bank account and not expect the IRS to notice

>>5481063
>>5481071
>>5481185
>>5481197
>>5481253

When the fuck did /biz/ become so inundated with spineless faggots?

>>5481363
>have you guys been so brainwashed by big bad gov?
(((BINGO!)))

>>5481593
You are the one who is a retard
IRS does not know but if they shove up a gun inside your asshole, you would even get ready to have a strap around your neck to be tracked 24x7 forget about telling about your exchange accounts

>>5481533
Freedom of not having a retirement plan or dying from cancer because you couldn't pay for treatment?
I'll admit we don't have that where I live. For the rest we're pretty ok.

>>5481161
GO to binance/ bittrex
Check history
They have an excel file for every
withdrawal you have made
deposit you have made
every buy/sell you made.

>>5481672
Obviously yeah no amounts over 10k per month.
Binance is not required atm to send records to IRS, and definetely not Etherdelta, or cryptopia, all exchanges where i made money, bittrex too but thats a diff story, they would turn over records if irs asked.
SO i guess making an international bank account and renouncing citizenship are both ruled out as methods of working?

>>5481672

So what do we do then? Send the IRS a copy of 1000 pages of trade records from 5 different exchanges? How the fuck is anyone going to have the time to look at that?

>>5481733
Keep the record handy but just file the total gain.

>>5481672
>>Depositing money to bank account

>>5481733
They audit companies, 1000 pages is peanuts for them
If 10 people audit only 25 pages, it would take 4 days

>>5481730
renounce citizenship, you have to pay capital gains on what you currently hold, but they dont know you currently hold crypto. ;)

>>5481730
the best thing to do is to hodl for at least a year to minimize your capital gains tax. there are probably some schemes involving shell companies but you'll still have to pay taxes on repatriation.

>>5481733
it's not hard. took me less than 10 minutes to import all my day trades from 2017 into bitcoin.tax

>>5481379
This guy gets it. It's not only how they stay rich, but how they got rich in the first place.

A typical professional trader, realistically earns about 30% per year on investments. If you're going to pay 30% on your crypto, then what's the point?

>>5481585
I don't think I follow. You'd be taxed on every trade when day trading, then you'd hold the 100 ETH for a year before cashing out so you can be taxed again?

>>5481671
It is retarded, but satoshis have a nominal value. Otherwise you wouldn't trade them.

>>5481753
That basically means you can not avoid tax in america
Why not make 30% and utilize your time well rather than wasting your time shifting

>>5481752

Okay but those are companies, what about individuals sending them thousands of pages? Now multiply that by thousands of individuals sending them thousands of pages each of crypto trades? Is this a way to troll the fuck out of the IRS?

>>5481772
You pay 30% on gains, not the entire amount...

>>5481496

lol youve DEFINITELY never been to anywhere outside america lmao

our shit is barely better than 3rd world at this point bro

from the layout to the structures themselves the shit is decades and decades passed what it was designed for.. we're still living off structures built in the fucking New Deal by Roosevelt

Frankly, I'd just go crazy with 10 usd trades and send them like 500 pages of transactions.

>>5481370
>>5481415
yeah no, its 15% for 1 year or longer up to like 415k.

just hodl. its only going to be up by then anyway.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxes/capital-gains-tax-rates/

>>5481785
>he thinks he can outwit a tax institution that has been around for CENTURIES

>>5481780
>he wants to live in america

jesus christ anon

>>5481785
So you are basically going to gamble your money hoping they wont audit you?
I bet you wont be ever sleep sound after that
After 6 years you will get a notice with 100% penalty plus interest compounded anually
You will pay 3x the amount you earned

>>5481430
>I don't know to which extent the IRS emasculates you
To the fullest extent of the law KEK!

>>5481632
cause i just tell everyone im crypto millionaire and that makes sense to them cause they know what bitcoin is now.

>>5481593
This when did 4chan be filled with so many cucked tax payers. Pay some taxes... just don't report every little detail you fucking pussies. Year 4... and i'm fine

>>5481834

I don't want to outwit the IRS, but can anyone seriously tell me they have the time to look through a single person's taxes who didn't even make enough for them to pursue seriously? I didn't even make anywhere near six figures and I have over 300 pages of trade history among all the exchanges I use.

I too have a lot of money
I recently started wasting my time chasing ca's and accountant
In the end I realised, that am I even rich if I have to be worried for 100k in tax
You are not for the money, the money is for you
Fuck the money that makes you anxious and tensed rather than giving hapiness

>>5481841

Except I never said that, I want to figure out ways to pay less or how to figure out what the tax rate is that will cuck me the least. I didn't even make more than a normal person makes at a regular job (barely touched 30k) so I'm not a big fish like some people here. Yet even just for me, I have 300 pages for them to sort through which is ridiculous.

>>5481779
>I don't think I follow. You'd be taxed on every trade when day trading, then you'd hold the 100 ETH for a year before cashing out so you can be taxed again?
Yes, im guessing by how you said “taxed again” i would be better off cashing out for short term gains, putting cash back directly into eth before holding for the year + 1 day
I plan to hire a consultant when the day comes but this whole thing makes me question why even bother trying to day trade

>>5481780
Repeat after me:

I bought thr crypto but thought it was transfered to the wrong wallet.,I gave up,hope,and have since formatted,my hard drive multiple times and then disposed of it in the dump.

I do not control the wallet with the bitcoins nor have I ever.

I also have a completely unrelated craving for authentic belarusian cuisine and sight seeing and will be taking a holiday there.>>5481785

>>5481126
found the pajeet

(((unknown amount of monero)))

>>5481126
>how do

Scam people on the internet chilling unicorn "money"

>>5481902

And thank god I'm not a millionaire if only for this tax bullshit. I feel bad that I didn't make as much as some people on here have, but at least I'm a lot less worried about tax implications. I'm just curious as to WHY everyone thinks the IRS = God and somehow sees you when you sleep at night and knows what you're doing everytime you touch the keyboard or look at the screen. Seriously?

>>5481902
Really bro, ? Utilize your time to earn more, dont waste your time here. This market is gold rush
Only 30k and you are thinking about stealing tax already. You wont be taxed full 30%, but
0-10k- 10%
15% on the rest
only 12% ish

>>5481496
We pay more for slower internet than anywhere in the world pretty much.

>>5481908
Yea do you know the customs will fuck your angus if you bring in huge cash from your vacation

>>5481956

You dumb fucks, I never said I wanted to steal in taxes. I want to obviously save money and figure out how to do my taxes, but I'm wondering why you retards worship the IRS like they are jesus/god. What the fuck is wrong with Americans?

>>5481987
Haha
You are a frog in the pond
The reason is because IRS have built their reputation like this
You have no idea about their reach
Your search history
4chan, where you troll
everything is tracked

>>5481545
>so we can set up our own tax free state for us all.
I could be wrong but I think Iceland already does this.

And I get your point about tax management
But after all the ppf, and health insurance rebates you wont be able to save more than 2k

>>5481973
>implying you will ever want to come back from glorious Belarus

>>5482045
We already discussed this option
You can obviously save taxes if you fuck out of this country which is not an option for me
I didnt earn to have to ultimately leave the country like a thief lol

>>5481039
>AVOIDING TAXES
Thread reported to the IRS

captcha is related

Wait wait. If I am holding icx, for example, and it shoots up to 70 bucks a coin, but I just Hodl, are you saying they are gonna tax me for 70,000 USD even though I have not converted them? If I have not sold them for USD, with what money am I supposed to pay with?!

Not joking but the IRS, monitors 4chan too

>>5482100
We are talking about cashing out mate. you good

>>5481987
How to save money:
- Use LIFO for ETH/BTC -> shit coin exchanges when advantageous.
- Trade all your shitcoins that are at a loss to offset short-term capital gains before the 1st.

In reality, 99% of /biz/ is going to fuck up on their taxes or not pay them at all. Very few will actually be audited.

What you need to do is skip the process of renouncing your citizen ship and publicly state, look, Ive had enough of your fuckin shit. Im out. Let it be known that from this day forth I want nothing more to do with my country, yada yada yada. Legal paperwork is the same as that its just signed by some fuckhead in government.

you need to say that if any authority figures pursue me I will put them down for infringing on my rights as a human being. You have been warned.

And then do a little flourish at the end.

>>5482120
Damn I was freaking out for a second. Thanks anon.

>>5482129
HAHA, do you know how the jews manage smart cunts like you?
When you cash for the 1st time out they consider your 1st buy as the basis or the cost for which you bought the first time you invested
Then the 2nd and so on

>>5482100
No. They can't do shit unless you cash out to your bank.

>>5481149
I'm in the exact same situation, except I'm in Europe. No idea who I will have to pay taxes to, but I think moving to Germany would be a good idea, transferring everything to a Monero wallet I made for my European wife (no bs US taxes to deal with for her), and have her pull it all out into fiat so there are no taxes on our gainz, and no liability for me to the IRS (every deposit and exchange registration has been done with an EU passport, no mention of my US nationality).

Lost motivation to trade for 2 days straight when I realized my btc will be getting a 30% cut
but eventually you get used to it

>>5481792
>You pay 30% on gains, not the entire amount...
In crypto it's pretty much all gains, especially if you got in early. Use your head.

>>5482170
I keep multiple wallets. It's pretty clear where the crypto came from if you check the blockchain.

>>5481545
You mean Monaco?

>>5481834
>a tax institution that has been around for CENTURIES
This is the most normie statement on /biz
>doesn't know the IRS was formed in 1914 right after the federal reserve

>>5482339
That's still longer than both you and your dad have lived combined kek

boys time to make a biz coin we'll make a fuckton

decentralized bank, atms around the world, not government audits

>>5481785
Yeah. I work in a tax office in Europe for US expats. My boss was super unorganized with his files until I started working for him. He told me a story about how his unorganization actually paid off for him and one of our big clients. The client was getting audited, and they requested all kinds of info by a certain date. My boss started sending thousands of pages of just random French tax docs, all out of order, most of them useless to the auditor, and they had to get the audit done within X amount of days. The auditor eventually gave up and the client walked away scot-free.

>>5481675
Where do you think the money came from for that fighter plane 1940's anon?

>be cryptomillinaire
>move to first tier country in se Asia
>be self employed and pull out 95k-ish/yr tax free
>live like a king and have 10fine brown skinned women licking my balls at any given time
>be compliant with irs tax

Prove me wrong /biz. Lolkek

Hint: you can’t

>>5481039

>>5482391
So your boss literally performed a denial of service attack on the IRS

please tell me if I'm being retarded but couldn't you write up a contract with somebody to sell your 1 million in Bitcoin to him for $900k fiat dollars?

Then you just do the transfer off the exchange, but you sign a notarized contract

>>5482270
Monero and this.

>>5481956
Why should the IRS even get a dime? Did you know that before we had an IRS we had roads, a military, bridges, hospitals, prisons, everything! How do you suppose we got all that shit without a fucking IRS? I swear you people who believe this IRS shit don't know history or understand money. Before we had an IRS, we paid for shit by the GOVERNMENT making GOVERNMENT BANK loans. The profit from those loans is what we used to pay for everything we needed. The IRS is a DEBT COLLECTION AGENCY for the FEDERAL RESERVE, which is a PRIVATE COMPANY like Federal Express. It's a SCAM! Don't believe me? Google president Lincoln's greenbacks to get some perspective. Incidentally why he was assassinated and Kennedy too.

>>5481039
>move to a country you actually want to live in that has less taxes.
>??
>??
>profit

>>5482108
The IRS can SUCK MY FAT DICK!

>>5482540
Yeah, but niggers and coal burners had to work. Are you raysis'? Dats wut we pay dem incum taxes fo nay. Raparashuns.

>>5482129

Ok so I just convert all my shitcoins to Monero before the 1st? Is that how I avoid short term capital gains? I literally just want advice to reduce my taxes, but all everyone is saying is "IRS WILL AUDIT YOU" without giving any good info.

>>5482352
>That's still longer than both you and your dad have lived combined kek
Uhh.. no you would be wrong by about 30 - 40 years. Stay cucked normie!

>>5482384
>decentralized bank
AKA bitcoin

>>5481618
only if you hodl for +1 year

>>5482472
This is the formula if you have the balls to leave the jew S.A.

Can you just buy gold for Bitcoin and ship it. And then sell. Cos you don't pay taxes from gold I think. In case for EU

>>5481721
Binance is not based in the US why file your taxes for it?

>>5482777


Why do you need balls to travel? /biz acts like travel is heresy. You can go anywhere and still claim foreign earned income tax break. Go to Mexico, Puerto Rico, Canada, Europe, Japan.

>>5481645
>interstate with 50 mph limit

I commute an hour each way to work and back and put the cruise control at 75mph and get passed by highway patrol every morning and every afternoon that are doing 100+ mph and are apparently only looking to bust people that are going well over 75 mph. Where the fuck did you pull that 50 mph number from?

Agreed that the internet and rail infrastructure lags behind other developed nations. The reason for both is the same though. The U.S. is massive and a lot of the population centers are spread very far apart which creates financial and logistical problems not present in western europe, eastern china or japan.

But still, I'd love to see less tanks and aircraft carriers and more passenger rail lines.

>>5482825


Why not file, under report, and let 3 year statute of limitations kick in for low net worth individuals? Lol

>>5482655
Checked! And if we got rid of the IRS and went back to the old ways of doing things, yeah we'd even have money to keep welfare niggers calm so they don't riot. Don't be raysis bro!

>>5482705
You can't (legally) avoid short term capital gains but you can reduce them. Monero isn't going to help you if you ever plan on a legit cash out. Crypto doesn't appear from from thin air. However, you can gamble that you become so rich that the penalties don't matter upon cash out.

How to reduce short term capital gains.

Example:
> You owe $1000 in short term capital gains this year.
> Earlier this year, you FOMO'd on OMG and bought 100 coins @ $15 each.
> On 12/31, OMG drops to $10; losing $500 of your initial investment.
> Sell all your OMG @ $10/coin resulting in a short turn capital gain of -$500.
> Total short term capital gains tax owed: $1000-$500 = $500.
> Take the BTC you got from the OMG sell and put it into some other shit coin.

Does anyone know about Europe? Do we know which exchanges report to which countries?

I've only made 700 in profit. Do they have a minimum level you had to reach for them to touch it.

>>5482975
>Do we know which exchanges report to which countries?
They all report to the (((United States))). Your only hope might be Asia. Binance is in China, so is BTER. 2 very popular exchanges there's a reason why.

>>5483111
I meant I'm in Europe, man.

>>5481873
If you try to get between the jews and their shekels you WILL lose. No one is too small or too big for them

>>5481455
No. The law is changing next year so it is a taxable event when you exchange coins. Even if you don’t cash out you owe 40% taxes on your profit.

I was throwing this idea around in some other threads:
I live in a country with no capital gains tax. Assuming I'm not a scammer and can be trusted, how feasible would it be for a burger to send me crypto, for me to sell it and then make an international wire transfer which would be taxed as a gift?

>>5483199
>never cash out
>they can never tie it to you

your move globalists

>>5483199
Since 2014, all crypto to crypto exchanges incur short term capital gains tax. The new tax bill has only clarified a grey area in regards to "like kind" exchanges; limiting them to real estate only. The IRS has been giving people a pass on crypto taxes. However, there isn't a statue of limitations on tax evasion.

You are taxed based on your tax bracket. I have no idea where you got 40% from. Educate yourself.

https://www.fool.com/taxes/2017/12/22/your-guide-to-capital-gains-taxes-in-2018.aspx

>>5481159
I don't think crypto is for you

>>5481039
move to portugal

I just realized that I may assume 20% acquisition value in Finland bringing the tax rate on my gains down from 34% to 27% and suddenly it doesn't feel too bad.

>>5481149
>>5481565

Japanon here.

The National Tax Agency actually put out a briefing on how to calculate your taxes re: crypto here.

https://www.nta.go.jp/shiraberu/zeiho-kaishaku/joho-zeikaishaku/shotoku/shinkoku/171127/01.pdf

If you don't read JP, basically it is a tax event whenever you sell any crypto for fiat or trade a crypto for another crypto.

Your profit is the sum of:

(avg cost of coin at time sold - avg cost you acquired it) over all coins.

This is then taxed as 雑所得, which means that it will be added to your normal income, with the standard tax bracket for your income level applied. For example, if you made over 1000万円 from your normal job, your applicable bracket would be 33% (check your applicable rate below)

https://www.nta.go.jp/taxanswer/shotoku/2260.htm

Standard deductions apply.

It's a maybe a good idea to not sell more than you have to (assuming you are in the black) because there is some possibility that cryptos will be treated as securities in the near future, in which case the rate will be ~20% instead of the potential 45% if you are in the top income bracket. If you are NEET, then the tax burden really is not that much.

>>5481104

lmao, how did you cash out, only paying %15.

pls tell me anon.

Cash out by buying drugs and selling them for additional profit.
I thought this board was about bizness.

Cash out 1 million crypto. Start up a business and report initial start up cost of 300k. Pay 0% tax. Bam done.

>>5481863

how much did you make?

How did you report it?

>>5481039
>Read a fucking book
>Use your annual tax free allowance to take profits

>>5483954
Do I have to pay taxes if I cash out some btc I got outside Japan? Want to sell some on Bitflyer

>>5484329

Yes - the tax applicable income is as the previously stated formula. It benefits you to be able to support as high as a price as possible as if you treat it as a "gift" from an unrelated foreign entity, the purchase price for tax purposes will be 0 and you will be taxed on the full amount of the profit (mining, fork acquired crypto are treated as being acquired at 0 yen)

>>5481496
US is the size of continental Europe and our cities are very spread out. This means you need a car, trains aren’t an effective way of transportation, and there’s are a lot of roads that need to be repaired

>>5481474
All gold sales are immediately reported

>>5481772
>>5481379
Hire a top tier tax attorney and accountant. If you can’t do that, better pay up.

>>5481501
It costs over a million dollars just to leave

Just pay your taxes faggot.

>>5484415
Thanks for the answer! btw do I have to pay if my monthly profit is more than 20man or 38? I study at uni/don't work

>>5481770
Faggot

>>5482436
a rothschild central bank loaned the money to globalists to kill nationalists. guess who is forced to pay that money back? not the (((people))) who borrowed it.

>>5481943
Everyone here is a pussy ass bitch that's why

>>5482077
tax avoidance is legal you fucking cuck, Google it

Buttcoiners are literally so retarded they're willing to risk 20 years in prison instead of just paying their 15%.

Amazing. To the libertarian retards here, nobody is saying paying taxes is 'patriotic', it's just what you have to do to avoid prison. Once you buy that lambo you'll get a nice call from the IRS asking how you managed to afford that. Then you are fucked.

>just move to another country brah!!!

You need a good career to move to another country, and 5+ years work experience and living there. You think hong kong, a place full of thousands millionaires and billionaires, will give citizenship to some fat americuck with a million dollars in meme coin so he can evade taxes? No.

>>5482108
Faggot
>>5482269
you cash out under 42k a year you pay 0% capital gains tax.

>>5484786
20 years ha

suck more jew dicks faggot

>>5484622
If you have literally no other income, and you are making 38 man * 12 = 396 man per year, you will fall into the 3rd tax bracket listed here

https://www.nta.go.jp/taxanswer/shotoku/2260.htm

Subtract basic deduction of 38 man and the deduction from your tax bracket (assuming you are in the 3rd, that will be 42.75 man) meaning that your final tax bill is 396 - (38) - (42.75) = 315.25 man * 20% = 63 man ~ 6000 USD.

Im from spain and im supposed to pay 45% taxes on any gains above 60.000€

also you have to justify the origin of EVERY deposit on your wallet, and some exchanges I used are dead, so I can no longer prove that the origin was from an exchange's account that I controlled and i did licit trading with it

also if I touched monero etc its impossible to prove transaction origin due obscured blockchain

Honestly im fucked, I dont know what to do, im going to be a millonaire in 2020 when BTC is worth 100k€ and I'll not be able to buy real state or anything since I did trading on dead exchanges, also I will be considered a criminal since I didn't report I own more than 600.000€

I've considered Andorra but I dont know how it works exactly. Wtf do I do once I arrive there and what guarantees I will not be prosecuted by the Spanish state?

Also I heard financial crimes here in spain expire after 4 years... so if I hold for 4 years, I would be able to cash out and buy a house withotu specifying the origin of the money?

Any idea how the fuck this works?

Anyone selling more than 50% of their bitcoins at any time deserves a bullet to the brain, but I want to sell at least 50% once im rich buy some real state, and no i don't want to go into some latin-american or asian shithole, if it's not spain then andorra is the only other place I would go. I want to be able to spend money here so I can flex with a lambo and combo on my ex-normie highschool "friends".

>move to puerto rico for 6 months
>cash out millions into a bank account
>pay 0% taxes
>get the fuck out of puerto rico
is there a flaw in this plan?

>>5481161
That’s why you need a company that can buy those things for you

>>5481039
>>5482631
>>5482823

>>5485085
Yes: what the fuck do you do once you leave puerto rico?

You have millions in a puerto rico bank account, so fucking WHAT?

If you go back to a non-shithole country, they will see you have money overseas

If you stay... you are rich in a shithole, big woop, what's the point.

The only point to be rich is to live in a nice place and flex on normies that you used to know. You'll be bored if you live in a shithole with a different culture, full of dangerous shitskins etc.

>>5485099
Yep starting a company as some NEET that makes millions is sure not going to raise any alarms. Nobody has ever been caught doing this!

>>5481131
you are did the same but you lost aren you?

>>5485055

I'm from Spain also. Would like to group with more people to talk about this if enough people interested.

>>5485055
Just move everything to switzerland

>>5481039
Go to portugal

>>5485182
"just move everything to X"

I hate these fucking vapid posts with no real insight.

>>5485173
Indeed. We need a group of spanish bitcoiners. We are going to be €millionaires by 2020, I mean even people holding a couple BTC will, and we need a plan by then.

In around 2019 to 2020, bank secrecy will be removed, off-shore banking is DEAD. This will make BTC skyrocket beyond belief.

Only reason Catacucks are pushing for independence is to avoid the Pujol mafia to be exposed in 2020 once Andorra releases all their accounts.

>>5485301
Send me an email if you want and we could talk how to create it. Every spanish is welcome.

leteners24(at)protonmail(dot)com

>>5481159
i bet you dont even know how to compile a C++ program

>>5485381
Saved, but would like to discuss for a while, faster than email. Im under an VPN at least.

Man what the fuck. I can't believe the (((government))) is setting the tax rate on crypto so fucking high. It's fucking ridiculous.

I had every intention of cashing out after 1.5 mill but they're gonna take so much I don't even know if investing in crypto is still worth it if I'm going to have to still work for a living down the line. Fucking Jews man fuck everything up.

I don't even think making 2 mil by next year is even possible if I'm only putting in like 3k this year into crypto.

My guess is that more regulations are gonna role in, not to mention we'll probably lose a couple of exchanges or something retarded will go wrong.

Guess I missed the millionaire rocket. Fuck.

>>5481131
Clicking on some buttons is what every rich person does. Working is a scam.

>>5481039
they wont open you an account with no HKID, otherwise hong kong is a good choice. too bad youre an american. however.... would you be willing to pay a commission for some useful advice on how to best manage your assets?

>>5481956
hey im all in to pay what's absolutely legally due, but for crypto it's actually not clear at all. how many crypto traders have actually been prosecuted for 'avoiding taxes'? it'll be clearer when there's a precedent. currently noone who paid their due taxes on cashing out have received any punishment whatsoever.

but calling it 'stealing taxes' is laughable. are you on neetbucks and desperately rely on ppl giving their hard earned money to you, or what the fuck can even make one call tax optimization 'stealing taxes' lol

>>5485414
kk, it's my throwaway email

Which ways do we have to comunicate in group and be somewhat anonymous?

I know about slack, telegram and discord, but not sure about the anonymity of them (although pump&dump groups usually use discord)

A forum is a no-no unless it's in a shady server and somewhat private

>>5481618
>>5482733
Moving to Germany soon. Can you elaborate on this?

>>5481039
HOPE YOU LIKE READING
SEDM.ORG

>>5485497

I dont know. Slack is tor friendly, this shall be anonymous? requires javascript on tho.

>>5485429
Selling BTC for fiat is always a loss of purchasing power in the long term.

What you want to do is have enough to buy real estate while still holding a strong BTC position. Do not "cash out" everything. Fiat is fucking dead as fuck.

>>5481131
Lol my low iq friend. "Work harder, not smarter. Muh bootstraps muh"

>>5481039
If you need advice for options where you are, leave me a way to reach you

Become a citizen in Estonia and just transfer your money there.

My IRS agent buddy said they are already calling 2017 tax season - Cryptocurrency's Red Wedding.

>>5485598
Just created it as provisional

https://join.slack.com/t/cryptoespaa/shared_invite/enQtMjkwODIxNjY5OTUzLTA5MGMwMDU0NTQ4NjVmMTVlNDE5YjY2ZTkxNjBhYTQ5OGNkZjZiYzU3NTcxYmY2NTg2OWZlNTc2NzVmM2M0NzE

>>5481039
>>5481063
>>5481071
>>5481185
>>5481197
>>5481253
>>5482077
>>5482108
When did /biz/ become a bunch of boot licking faggots? Just further proof 3 letter agencies monitor this board.

Taxation is LITERALLY theft.

You could dump everything in-person on localbitcoins with 0 paper trail but you'll only ever be "drug dealer rich".

For large purchases you'll need to pony up.

CPA here.

A lot of misinfo here.

>REALIZED CAPITAL GAINS are what you bought for minus what you sold for
>LONG TERM CAPITAL GAINS are investments held for greater than one year
>If there is no wage income then the first $37k of LTCG are taxed at 0%
>CG taxes must be paid regardless of location and the foreign income exclusion has no effect on them

My advice is stop wagecucking on 12.31.17 and take exactly $37k of long term gains on 1.1.18. Do this every year and congrats on being retired in your twenties.

>>5484786
>You need a good career to move to another country, and 5+ years work experience and living there.

You just need to have enough money or be willing to open a business there, retard.

>>5485779
1) not everyone is from USD
2) 37k is peanuts, we want mansions and lambos on our twenties.

>>5485843
>37k is peanuts
The majority of biz has a portfolio of less than $10k...

>>5485731
I dont know man how do I know you arent Montoro?

lets just talk here, we dont need to click any links.

or find a non javascript way to do it.

All euro cucks should move to Romania (16% tax on income, 10% from next year), Bulgaria(10%) or if they like adventure Russia (10%)

>>5485779
will like-kind exchange cut the mustard for 2017 before we get shackled with the new 2018 rules for every trade is CG?

>>5485871
I dont care about that. Im worth half a million € now

BTC is going to be 6 figures by 2020.

Do the fucking math. im not looking forward to not being able to enjoy my wealth. I awnt to buy 2 houses, rent one, then be a neet, I dont want to be limited to shitty withdraw amounts.

i just found out that if you renounce your u.s. citizenship you can still be drafted into the u.s. military.
what the fuck jews. what the fuck.

>>5481063
Just kill your fucking self

>>5485952
Well Roger Ver renounced US citizenship and he's rich now in Tokyo. Everyone knows where he lives... why isnt he drafted back into the US then?

>>5485904
>BTC is going to be 6 figures by 2020.
If you really believe that, just become a resident in a tax haven and cash out in two years.

>>5485952
They are not going to drag you from another country, anon.
Remember, the USA is only good for making money and saving it if you are smart enough, you can easily live like a king somewhere else while flipping the jews.
If the majority of the male population knew what even $200K could get them in other countries, there would be a massive exodus.

>>5485991
there hasn't been a military draft since 1970

>>5485991
dat boi is rich man he so rich

>>5485085
>>5485129
How bout the Virgin Islands?

>>5485779
So I'm a NEET. haven't work for 28 years but I have over a mil in crypto.
So I don't need to report or do anything if I cash out 37k a year?
I'm fine with living low key life. No need mansion or car. Just a quiet place with internet

>>5481039
its easy anon, just dont cash out all at once. cash out into a lower tax bracket. the way im cashing out is like a retirement plan. i still stay legal and dont have to worry about the fbi niggers raiding my shit in the middle of the night for something as stupid as tax evasion.

>>5485562
Here is a link if you are capable of reading German, otherwise google translate is your friend:
https://www.bmf.gv.at/steuern/kryptowaehrung_Besteuerung.html

>>5486011
Yeah so what. Spain is not going to after me?

And again, lets say I become a resident in Andorra? (how, im a NEET with no job record and no money other than my BTC)

Then I cash out a million € in Andorra

What happens next?

>>5481772
>A typical professional trader, realistically earns about 30% per year on investments.

You pay 30% on the net profit you made that year, brainlet

Otherwise nobody would ever make any money investing or trading

>>5481576
They suck the white man's blood out to give it to nogs and destroy us. Then again if I move back to Russia it's probably 10x worse. Where the fuck could I even go?

you made money by playing around on your computer for a few hours a day

this means you are probably pretty lazy and not looking for confrontation in your life

I highly suggest getting an accountant to do your taxes for you, one who is familiar with crypto and related laws in the usa

then I suggest you pay protection money to the criminal gang that runs the USA, so that they don't fuck with your life

yes its robbery, but your option is to become a potential fugitive, and that will eat into your gains a whole lot more than taxes

there are some tricks you can do to avoid taxes, like incorporating and running your business at a loss or creating a charity, but you really need to do your research before you start getting into shit like that

>>5481063
Unironically this. Don't listen to the fuckung ancaps 15 year olds.

>world's first totally anonymous currency! fuck the NWO!
>oops you have to reveal your identity to trade it online, guess you pay taxes after all :^)

>>5486765
you don't have to reveal identity though. There's some decentralize exchange out there but too bad they have shit volume so not a lot of people use it.

>>5481039
The amount of misinformation in this thread is mind blowing and I only read about 1/5th of the way down. I had to stop I was getting too triggered. My advice is to disregard everything in this thread.

>>5481039
FBAR, FinCEN

>>5486481
tooo bad thats austria

>>5486304
taxman will oppress you anyway. cash out and pay the taxes. it is the only way.

>>5486304
I think the IRS expects you to do your tax returns even if you don't owe anything in taxes if your income is greater than some specific threshold, to let them know how you don't need to pay taxes even though you have a substantial income.
I encourage you (and every one) to research for yourself.

>>5486669
>you made money by playing around on your computer for a few hours a day
This is how everyone gets rich you fucking idiot. Working in a scam 2017. kys.

>>5486495
>>5486495
>>5486495
fucking answer this you pricks

>>5481131
>only manuel labor is hard earned money

Why do people always say the "renounce citizenship" shit? Here's an easier way:

Choose the country you like. You will most likely get Visa on Arrival, if not, choose a country where you do.

Some places you get longer than others. Some places allow you to pay a nominal fee for 30-60 day extension. When this time is over, leave the country (go to nearest border country) stay in a hotel for 24 hours then re-enter and re-start the process.

I've done it twice. Once in Thailand and once in Dubai. Lived in Thailand for almost three years and Dubai for a year and a half.

Next, get some confidence and keep going to different branch locations trying to open a bank account. Check out expat forums as you will get a better idea. Most banks will obviously refuse, but if you try long enough you'll eventually get a bank account. Some just need proof of residence for 6+months and a scan of your passport.

>>5489033
>I don't understand US tax
>I don't file my FBAR reports yearly
>IRS form 8938
>willful violations

>>5489187
Perpetual traveling you moron. You never go back.

Just use SALT and avoid cashing out altogether ya goof

>>5489263
If you are not a US citizen, good for you. If you are, you are beyond stupid and I suggest Google the terms I gave

>>5481063
After Kushner pay his. kys

>>5481233
fucking this!

Just pay your taxes you greedy fucks. You already made more money than the average hardworking man by just sitting on your sorry worthless asses......PAY YOUR TAXES. i was a fucken illegal and did every thing i had to do to get my citizenship (it was a lot) i pay my taxes i work hard ..so why shouldn't you? fuck you

>>5489542
kek

take out small amount everyday, it would not create alert. i have been consistently retrieving 9k usd everyday since july

>>5487046
Scheiße, didn't pay attention , sorry here is the right link:

https://www.finanzgefluester.de/besteuerung-von-kryptowaehrungen/

>>5489596
>daily 9k USD doesn't ring any alarms
where the fuck do you live?

>>5481071
This.

Al Capone was taken out because of fucking taxes.

It's not worth it.

>>5487676
I haven't done any tax ever. I'm 28. Do I start filing this year? Or all the past years as well?

>>5489542
Not lying , I have lost more hair trading in 6 months than any wagecuck would ever would in 10 years

>>5482540
Man get the hell out of here with your libertarian thoughts, no one is going to listen to this bs arguments when the shove in the deep dark jail
Paying tax is not a choice, you can not escape them

>>5481721

I have all my trades tracked, but not the initial bitcoin purchase. Am I fucked?

>>5485765
Don’t be greedy anon. Rashed needs his cut so he can raise his six kids and send them all to a good college. Your money needs to go to those less fortunate

>>5490257
How did you buy

>>5490043
Fuck off with your alcapone meme

>>5490243
You actually can escape them.

Corporations do it all the time
CEO's do it all the time.

Its all about where you claim the income came from.

>>5490351

Both localbitcoins and coinbase, I'm not sure that I can get info on my localbitcoins purchases.

>>5490400
You are right
Everyone is in a different scenario
Blockchain is very transparent.

>>5490476
You can just show the payment made in your bank statement

B U Y G O L D A N D SELL IT FOR FUCKING CASH YOU MORONNNSSSS

>>5489263
Doesn't matter how perpetual your travel is if US citizen, you still owe tax.

You're all idiots if you still don't know this.

1) Move to Puerto Rico for 183 days + make a donation of $5,000 as required by Act 22.
2) Any capital gains from Puerto Rico will not be taxed by Puerto Rico or by the federal govenrment

This won't apply for 99% of you because you're poorfags and will always be poor fags. But if you're trading large amounts of money, this is a way to avoid short-term or long-term capital gains for upcoming years.

If you're too poor for that - then move to a state where no income tax exists so you can reduce your tax load.

The most important things you poor fags can do since you're dealing with amounts of money that are less than say $20,000:

A) Open up a crypto debit card (tenx, bitpay, monaco) and spend up to $20k with less than 200 transactions a year (otherwise it'll be reported to the IRS.
B) do no more than $8,000 wire transaction from each exchange into a different bank account with minimum 30 days in between ( to be safe). So Kraken + Bitstamp + Coinbase + Gemini = 4 * $32,000.
C) Sell on localbitcoin.
D) Buy gold up to $10,000 with bitcoin.
E) Use Bitcoin atms.

YMMV.

>>5490043
>'muh al capone' blurps the impoverished american taxpayer

>>5489897
>https://www.finanzgefluester.de/besteuerung-von-kryptowaehrungen/
Thanks. Will read this thoroughly.

Also to clarify for B and C above, I meant to say in a year. So less than $8,000 in a year PER exchange and with 30 days spaced apart and in a different bank account for each ideally.

The risk, however, is that you don't know if the IRS will audit any US friendly exchange in the future and divulge all your transactions. So you might think that $10,000 reporting limit for bank wires won't matter, but the IRS can easily identify a pattern on exchanges.

One last thing - you can repeat A-E with more than 1 person.

That's the best way imo to convert crypto to USD without incurring tax. But you run the risk of course of getting in the trouble with the law, but the above is how i thought of it.

>>5481428
>Canada and Europe
>taxes are well spent
Merry Christmas Ahmed

>>5491195
Holy shit some useful advice for once!!
1. How did you find this out?
2. Have you tried any of these?

As I mentioned above - you would be a fool to forfeit US citizenship (if you are not a poor fag). Fresh water, job security, tons of jobs if you're not a walmart retard,etc.

Even with $1 million.

You'd need at least $10-$20million IMHO to move somewhere else.

Hong Kong? Who wants to be around a bunch of Chanks?

Monaco is the best place in the world, but all of you are too poor to live there as a tiny 1 bedroom studio will go for $2-3million (5x more than Manhattan).

>>5491415
I've been trading for years, but I'm not that rich. I have mt. gox coins though that I could be getting back and could possibly make me rich if we get our coins back in the 6 months.

>>5490158

Hair loss doesn't make the world a better place in any conceivable way.

>>5491553
I'm impressed man, how did you learn this or just stumbling upon the right peeps?

>>5491468
>Monaco is the best place in the world
For what, exactly? Moron.

>>5486323
>>5485779
Best advice ITT
cash out slowly year over year

>>5491679

For everything your broke ass will never have, faggot.

It cost more than Manhattan, or Hong Kong for a reason. Zero tax on anything and everything, beautiful coast, and so forth.

>>5491665
>learn

Trial and error, keen interest, prior experience, etc. I turned $2k into about $20k in the last 4-5 weeks so something is working :D

>>5481039
Get married, live modestly and pay the long term cap gains rate (0%)

>>5492062
Normies plz leave

>>5481063
>Pay your taxes so the government can give it to Tyrone and bomb Ahmed

>>5481428
World's greatest military takes $$$.

Scenario 1

>Have $100k in crypto
>Cash out crypto on exchange and receive $100k on bank account
>IRS comes
>You are left with $60k

Scenario 2

>Have $100k
>Get a loan from the SALT platform
>Put your $100k worth of cryptos as collateral for the loan
>You receive $100k on your bank account
>IRS can't tax you because the $100k is considered loan and not profits
>Then you default on your loan on purpose
>Lender keeps your cryptos and you keep the fiat on your bank account

Please tell me how this won't work.

>>5481873
They have computers looking for red flags and mistakes. Submit your taxes hard copy so the computers don't pick them apart for tiny errors. Kek.

>>5492015
Do you know how much a loaf of bread is in Monaco? Other than no tax, it's the dumbest idea in the world to want to move there. How old are you? 5?

>>5481316
Yeah but other freedumb countries don't have a private entity that has virtually diplomatic immunity to hunt down and fuck its citizens in their bumholes

>>5492474
>log off 4chan
>read tax laws
>extinguished debt is considered income

>>5492705
*forgiven debt

>>5481039
Just hodl for a year and you only have to pay CGT.

>>5485700
>have weak hands
>miss out on moon missions because you're a fucking pussy
>get done by IRS for cashing out a 50k portfolio when you could have been sitting on a million

That's the funniest part, they're only gonna catch the melts

>>5481039
I figure you can do this:

>Sell everything for BTC
>Buy as much XMR as you can
>Buy gold bullion with XMR (can do this online pretty easy)

After you have gold is there an easy way to sell it for cash without paying crazy high fees?

>>5492777
Even if that works and if you had the cash on your hands, how would you spend it? Buy property with cash?

>>5492777
Craigslist / private party. You've got guns right?

>>5492777
Short answer: no. You also have to sell it in smallish quantities to avoid triggering money laundering reporting rules.

>>5492474
Hahahahhaha
Collateral= $100k
gets loan= $100k
Do you have a single digit iq?
Salt platform states
"The value of the collateral will be significantly higher than the loan amount"

Leaf here.

Here capital gains are taxed at 50% your income tax rate which is very low for me and I don't mind paying. However, if you day trade you have to declare it as income.

I def day traded a lot but mostly lost money from it, most of my gains where from holding coins during big bull runs for a few days.

What are the odds of a QuadrigaCX audit? Odds of getting in trouble for trading but declaring as capital gains? What are other leafs doing?

GLTA

>>5492862
I day trade against BTC not cash so I havent cashed out yet. I dont really get if each trade is taxable or not but if I declare it as income im only declaring whatever I cash out for Canadian dollars.

>>5492777
Where and how do you buy/sell bullion via xmr? How can you check to see if you're buying legit bullion? W/ BTC you can buy gold from legitimate dealers...I am assuming xmr is black market?

>>5493090
I havent actually done it but you can on silverround.com

The reviews I read look legit