/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>54695691
nice halfbreed nugget

The mining world is not at all thrilled with Chile's new plans for state controlled lithium!
https://www.mining.com/top-stocks-plummet-after-chile-brings-lithium-industry-under-state-control/

Brazil has plans for potash mining in the Amazon
https://www.mining.com/brazils-path-to-potash-production-in-the-amazon/

the only commodities that are bullish right now are gold and silver. the rest of you are just baggies at this point. have fun bagholding through the upcoming recession

>>54695830
Thanks anon. Can't wait

How the fuck do you stay long on this shit without being forced once a month to exit and then re-enter at a higher price? I soooo love knowing for sure that this is going to be back at $3+ at some point in the next 6 months (because it is), but that knowledge not doing me any good because I have to take an unknown number of 8-10% haircuts while I wait. What a scam. Stock futures don't gouge you like this.

Hey Pan Man, you ever go into old mines and find an abandoned old pair of Levis from the olden days? I would love to get some.

>>54695830
platinum is ready to peg gold and palladium

>>54696157
that would be worth a fortune, huh?

I've found a set of levis rivets from 1897 in a mining camp while metal detecting. I also find cloth from old jeans in the trash pretty often, but not levis. The jeans from the 1800's were a lot rougher cloth, more like sailcloth. Very thick, with a rough weave. Probably pretty stiff. They sold as "cotton duck trousers" and miners wore the shit out of them. It's the most common cloth I find in miners' trash piles around their houses.

Levis were expensive and didn't get used much in my town. I have buttons and rivets off probably a hundred brands of old jeans, but only found one set of levis rivets ever.

sorry not pan man. I do have a huge collection of junk I've hauled out of abandoned mines, but no jeans.

>>54696157
>>54696215
picrel

some Levis rivets from jeans worn by miners.
>L.S. & Co S.F.
>Pat. May 20 1873

>>54696425
Those are in remarkably good shape considering how you found them

>>54696215
>>54696425
When we make it, Pan Man will take us on a mine exploration for treasure!

>>54696446
Most of the soil where the miners actually lived is pretty neutral in my area. Also elevations of about 11k feet so they spend 9 months out of every year frozen solid. Sometimes stuff comes out of the ground looking brand new.

brass usually comes out with a light patina. Silver comes out pretty shiny. Most of what I dig comes out of trash piles full of 100 year old stove ash and literal human shit.

>>54696455
that would be fun! Not much to find in the old mines in my area, they've mostly been picked clean as far down as a person can reasonably get.

>>54696455
this pic is mostly stuff I found inside mines from the 1800's

>>54696629
the little horseshoe is actually a boot heel, they'd nail metal heels on for some extra traction. The boot bottoms were filled with short nails used as cleats or spikes.

Top center is an old oil lamp.
top left is a crucible full of metal, mostly silver with some iron and gold.

below that is a bone ash cupel and cupel button of probably silver and gold. Below the cupel button is a blasting cap tin. Center is a ring bit for a horse. I have a bunch of other old mining gear, buckets full of it. But it's a lot to dig out and take a pic of.

>>54696157
i ve seen many pairs of Levis down old mines, but none were ever worth recovering like those ones found in deserts in the US. Mines here dont preserve anything, only destroy, their horribly wet and acidic.

>>54696786
I'm imagining miners stripping off their levis and running butt naked out into the moonlight

>>54696629
>>54696425
see stuff like this is actually fairly rare in my part of the world because the ground is so hostile to anything metallic. Even bullets look unrecognizable after 40+ years, everything turns to cemented rust.
I wish I had more artifacts like that, we just dont get them here.

>>54696804
Laudanum

>>54696804
most bits i ve seen were used as grease rags or for grip on wet handles, I dont think I ve ever seen anything made of cloth properly intact in a mine, its all rubbish used in different way by miners.

>>54696818
Yeah I rarely find stuff IN a mine, and if I do it's off the ground and near the entrance where the acid can't get it. I have a shitload of old mining gear from the miner's houses though.
>>54696822
>Laudanum
true facts. Most common bottle I find in mining camps is budweiser. Second most common is laudanum.

>>54696833
ah, that makes sense! cool info
I was imagining an underground dry, but in my area the dries were all topside.

>>54696853
its really rare to see a dry mine, a wet mine is actually better over all for working as you dont have dust to deal with, and things stay together better when a bit of moisture is around. Sure everything is muddy but your not giving yourself black lung as fast.
>>54696845
Tins of opium show up in the really old hard rock mines out here, but I dont think they were actually using on the job, they just liked the round deep tins for storing water and tools. The most common junk i ll see in UG here are drill bit heads and Forcite boxes. Sometimes beer bottles too.

>>54696899
we call the changing room "The Dry" here. All our mines are wet so you come off shift soaking wet and get your dry clothes before you leave.

I find a shitload of blasting cap tins, probably same use as the opium tins you find. Oh that and prince albert tobacco. It was really popular. I find drill steels pretty often, also old batteries which is weird for the 1800's but I guess they were used in lamps and for blasting.

>>54695830
>he doesn't know about natgas & oats
>buys commodities at aths instead
thanks anon

>>54696927
oh sorry i misread that, yea the "mine dries" is basically a piece of lingo for UG anywhere in the world.
And yea we see old explosives often too but nothing intact, its all inert. I did get really lucky once finding a perfectly persevered wooden box full of cabs from the 1930s which was sweet. I also found a full role of det cord and modern fuses a guy claimed he had used in a modern drift at a property I was helping out. We see loads of tobacco tins here as well, but rarely legible, everything corrodes so fast.

>>54696975
I haven't found dynamite or detcord in a while but caps are common finds. After 140 years they're safe though. Sometimes I find electric caps and then I'm not as sure they're inert.

can't post pics of that stuff without getting glowie attention though. Not that I have any around the house, that would be illegal.

>>54697038
same, its easy to find decayed stuff out here but rarely do you see intact working fun stuff.

>>54697055
what always amazes me is how many old caps I find mixed in with the ashes from stoves and fireplaces. Maybe it was the kids amusing themselves and scaring the grown ups with some hot caps or something

>>54697185
or maybe that's how the miners tested them... toss them in a fire and see. Not sure. either way a lot of those caps survived.

>>54697200
there is a famous story around here where a guy thought it would be a brilliant idea to dry out his dynamite in his cabin stove. He went out for firewood, and a moment later his cabin had vanished in a quick "thump" of an explosion. The stove was never found. Miners put fun stuff in the stove all the time.

>>54697685
we had a few dozen of those back in the early days when we had 35k prospectors flood into an area that was frozen almost year round. The powder would freeze and the prospectors would try to thaw it on the stove, often with spectacular results. We have a lot of tombstones for empty graves where they didn't find enough of the body to bury. Eventually the mines got consolidated and the big companies built heated powder magazines, but I think all of those got blown up in some union wars we had back in the day.

they also tended to burn trash here, either in the stove our out on the ground by the cabin. So I find a lot of exploded bullet shells that went into the fire and popped. Some of the towns I detect had trash fires that burnt year round right in the town for decades straight. Melted bottles and burnt up coins all over the hillside. Just a smoldering pile of sewage and garbage. Probably smelled lovely and was at least as good for the miners as the powder fumes and rock dust underground.

>>54698076
Shit, when you said "prospectors" and "heat the powder on the stove" I thought you were talking about GOLD powder, not black powder ;) it's too damn late in the morning.

>>54695830
Poor narrative, the world needs further electrification.

>>54698522
dynamite usually. we call dynamite powder.

plenty of black powder accidents back in the day too though. When mining first started in my area they didn't have dynamite, so black powder killed a few thousand people pretty directly. It's touchy stuff.

>>54698543
Yup, seems like every other year someone accidentally lifts their house off its foundation because they were making barrels of black powder in their basement around here.

give me a copper penny stock on the tsx that could 100x

>>54698594
Fun fact you can reload 556 with that but you're still gonna need a primer and it'll need to be cleaned every couple hundred rounds. Making it from scratch is a mess, loading it is a mess, firing it is a mess. But you won't spend a dime on black camo face smudge

>>54698805
Ok

You can make a paste of I think some solvent and scraped off matchbox strikers (it's phosphorous) and apply it inside a used primer, just gotta disassemble it and bang out the firing pin dent.

>>54698830
You can use strike anywhere or strike on box. Just more involved tearing up that little strip and distributing it equally. Prolly gonna try that just so I have a merit badge to one up those chumps selling girl scout cookies

>>54698866
kek :)

Also, HK416 and HK417 I believe are piston operated, might want to check them out, saves you from getting a face full of soot

>>54698530
>Poor narrative, the world needs further electrification.
sure. we'll get right back on that after this recession

>>54695691
Natgas entry seems too good to be true. Why shouldn't I throw in a huge amount of money at it? Is this a trap?

>>54698996
Oof. It's early.
What's your favorite style of hat? Do you like cowboy hats?

>>54699008
Why is it early? The chart looks like it bottomed a few weeks ago and is going up now. Never liked hats but maybe if I ever got my hands on an actual cowboy hat it would change my mind.

>>54699088
Not sure if pretending to be retarded or not. Will monitor the thread

>>54699421
I didn't know anons who post here were as useless and retarded as those on /PMG/. Thanks for letting me know, I won't be back.

Part of me wants to sell my smol position in source energy services. Because it's at the 52 wk high damn near. But part of me doesn't give a shit if it goes down because you only lose money if you sell. It's up 108% since I got in. Still ...frac sand is something I think won't go away. The TA in me says swing but the DD in me says hodl thru any fire.
This is the psychology Gary talks about
>Picrel
So daneggar can keep up

daily reminder that /cmmg/'s leading TA expert shorted the generational bottom and went bankrupt

>>54699542
Nah he's too skeptical to put all his eggs in one basket. That's just what the Jews would want him to do

>>54696966
Natgas is going negative bro get ready

>>54698662
DSM.V just beat government litigation in Namibia and can continue drilling
TM.V is now operating and has cashflow

Both are high grade with a strong resource

>>54699666
thank you my friend

>>54699486
same
feels like the whole market takes a turn lower, nasdaq, s&p, gold, oil

i feel like shorting but im not good at timing and gould lose my cash that i would slurp with

bunp

>>54695992
can someone explain this pic and post to me like i'm a retard

I can't believe Rick Rule hasn't had this PureGold pumping video from 2 years ago taken down, slimy Rick at his best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJerGmwXWk

>>54700714
You would think people like this or GV would eventually run out of suckers, but they keep them rich. When we all are in a position of money and power, I would want to take them down playing their own game.

>>54700314
That's a brown coal open mine in Germany.

>>54695691

Your participation needed:

Global. Hyperinflation General /GHG/ >>>/pol/424550910

>>54699645
>comparing storage of natgas to oil
snap back to reality

>>54700955
No it isn't. Please go away. Stop posting that stupid pic and maybe you'll get some attention.

>>54700811
Would be nice. Rick was really pumping his holdings hard during the top in the summer of '20 and later said that was when he sold.

>>54701670
I wonder how much money people made who subbed to his uranium boocamp

>>54700955
what are we looking at, the ass of a hoe from the 1960s? get with the times you crazy cat

>>54701700
-60%, not counting the bootcamp fee

>>54701729
kek whoopsie. Not a financial advisor right?
I bet by the end of the camp RR didn't hold a single uranium company

>>54695691
There’s an old shutdown gold mine near my house. Should I rent a jackhammer from Home Depot and start digging up some nuggets?
https://thediggings.com/mines/usgs10201948

>>54701700
Anyone who subs to a commodity "bootcamp" in order to be shilled companies to buy deserves to lose money.

People really are out here living functionally retarded lives. Putting thousands of their hard earned dollars into shit they know nothing about because "the expert" told them to.

There's too many idiots who think finding a mentor means finding someone to pay.

>>54701670

Funniest thing is that the dumbfuck fanboy interviewing him didn't even catch onto it when Rule said he's out and looking to buy in couple of years when Uranium has pulled back.
Rule was basically gloating in his own subtle manner at that point and that's probably why he admitted it in the first place, he wanted all of the baggies to know he fucked them.
I got out of Uranium last July because I figured it's not going anywhere and will probably tank to where it started from, looks like we're still on our way there.
I'll get back into glowing rocks when the stocks have done about 50% down from here. Everything is resting on a long support and when it pulls back from here, it's a long way to fall.
I'm eyeing Encore at $1.5 or even lower, it's a no brainer to buy at that point.
Most Uranium charts look very similar to this one, everything is either on support or starting to break through it.

>>54702017
>>54701670
Honestly, anyone who didn't take profit in 2021 from Uranium deserve what he got. Uranium was extremely hyped everywhere. Everyone and their grandmother thought they were a contrarian. Combined with the fact every fucking uranium stock did at least x5...

It couldn't be more obvious. Check the archive for answers when I said late 2021 that Uranium was done for a long time. That's exactly when Uranium insider and Silverchartist started their paid newsletter to tell you how good Uranium is.

>>54701800
>UG
Nice knowing you

>>54702419
time is life and time is also money therefore it's an acceptable yolo

>>54702603
>t. Skimwalker
Tell home Depot what you're doing. I bet you they want 100% deposit on that unit

>>54695691
how many decades until nuclear dabs on the rest of the energy sources?

>>54702801
about 2

>>54700974
It's not physics that's the issue, it'll be government fines

So the new homebuyer rate credit score thing, is this acceleration in liquidity so the home investors can sell the bag to uneducated blacks? It sounds like the subprime loan debacle of 2008 again. A housing crash should be a big effect on the economy and would of course affect commodities and especially pms.

>>54704803
>Piss bottle
Kino

>>54704803
i lost a little bit of money to bayhorse - a few hundred dollars, nothing major. but i'm glad that i experienced the fraud and the hype early on in my investing career so i have learned that lesson moving forward. better to lose 500$ now and learn important lessons than 50,000$ later because you never learned

its still pretty gross out here for prospecting, roads are just passable at the moment. I went and checked out a few new road cuts, but until things dry out its still hurry up and wait out here.

>>54706451
jesus are you literally going to do sluce shit or are you assaying something more worthwhile?
whats your methodology?

>>54706511
at the moment, i am just snooping around looking at new roads (the ones not completely buried in 3m of snow that is). In this district i am looking for quartz veins like pic related, recently exposed that could carry potential for gold. These are usually to small for actual mining, but often have very tasty placer gold deposits near them.

>>54706511
the vein above had some very nice looking sulfides and some tiny free mill gold, but nothing crazy, just little traces of interesting material.

things in Bolivia could get dicey

>>54707283
Peru and Bolivia are probably going to get very interesting in the coming months, and not in the good way either.

>>54702801
You're waiting for fusion, 2060 or later, fission will never win out against braindead politicians and public opinion.

>>54708918
and the sad part is the cost/long term benefit for fussion vs fission (given SPARK type reactions are picked as the way to go) is practically the same
>>54706785
>>54706543
veins are always cool but without core drilling you never know, literally dig around the thing and see if anyone drilled before you

>>54709284
these are almost all brand new unexplored veins, so i am probably the first person since the blasting to look at them. Sometimes though you see old timer workings around them, those have my total attention.

>>54709386
like i said...i wouldn't bother with old timer methods of "lick and see", i would avoid gold in bedrock old river deposits and focus on ore, thats where good PPM is at and chances are its still untapped since most people from back in the day only focused on nuggets rather than stuff thats trapped in microscopic form in rock

>>54709386
A beer can on a filthy patch of snow is actually my family crest.

>>54709413
but if you cant afford a drill or you dont know how to drill then just try grabbing a few specimens of that vein stuff you showed me, crush it up in a ball mill, send the dust for assay or fire assay it your self and make a claim
if it fails, rince and repeat

>>54709424
wait, are you trying to teach Pan Man how to prospect for gold?
kek

>>54709437
im a pan man my self so no harm in sharing experience with a fellow prospector

>>54709447
no, you're right. I spent most of my life prospecting for gold and I used to do the same but the man knows more about finding gold with just his little finger than I do with my whole self. He's super nice and always willing to talk so it took me a while to realize he way outclasses me and most everyone I know.

You guys carry on, he does love to talk prospecting, And he's damn good at it. Just made me smile a bit because I've learned so much from him and I used to think I knew my stuff when it came to gold findery.

>>54709447
>>54709413
I have access to drills but this is just old school exploration work while i wait for the snow to clear, i am not really hoping to find anything, just checking. One of the best high grade zones i ve ever seen out this way was found by total accident this way. Drilling also requires permits and staked ground, this is all open terrain.
I do plan on having a few pieces of pics above assayed later in the summer at some point but i dont think their rich enough to really bother with.

>>54709499
>I've learned so much from him and I used to think I knew my stuff when it came to gold findery.
oh i've been in the biz for around 10 years and the shit i learn from practical shit about prospecting to like legal fuckery always btfos me
and i've eaten enough shit in other projects too to know not to be cocky about how knowledgeable i am

>>54709499
shit, this was meant for you >>54709511

>>54709413
To add, any time i see old timer workings, especially split and stacked bedrock on a vein, I sample and log its location. The old timers were looking for ounce a day diggings, if they took notice of a vein, i do as well. They put more work into this region than i could in 10 lifetimes.

>>54709520
good to have you here, we do like talking rocks.

>>54709539
>The old timers were looking for ounce a day diggings
can you imagine? To me a tenth ounce a day is fabulous ground. I've seen an ounce a day exactly one day in my life, and it was a very good day.

>>54709499
thank you anon it means a ton! I ll always give my know how to any who ask or need it, its how I was taught. This info is getting rarer and rarer every year.

>>54709581
>This info is getting rarer and rarer every year.
You're a dying breed, but you're the real deal Pan Man.

>>54709644
i ll post some more pics tomorrow, i have to go for now, talk to you all later!

>>54697185
Kek I grew up in the NWT where blasting was common just for normal construction due to the bedrock everywhere, found a cap once and saved it. Little bit later at a pallet fire in highschool I chucked it in and everyone hit the deck and waited, waited, waited.... then POP and it blew some bits of flaming pallet in a little radius around it. Fun but nothing compared to throwing a can of beans in a fire.

>>54709779
I sometimes find them exploded, but usually the ones I find are intact. Not sure if they were duds or if they never were actually in a fire and just got mixed in with some ashes.
Not gonna lie, if I had crates of caps sitting around I'd be tossing a few in the fire sometimes just because I'd be living in a cabin with no tv, women, or doritos. A miner has to entertain himself somehow.

>>54709644
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaTSQzYIR3U

frens, should i invest in PBR.A? the dividend is silly high and if its true, theoretically i can get my principal investment back in two or three years of holding, and keep the shares.
picrel kek

>>54710828
I saw it recommended on a decent newsletter the other day, can't remember which one. Nationalization risk though.

>>54701729
>>54701789
>I bet by the end of the camp RR didn't hold a single uranium company

kek, Rick strikes again leaving countless bagholders in his wake. Don't miss the next opportunity anons! Sign up below!!!

https://opptravel.zohobackstage.com/TheRuleSymposiumonNaturalResourceInvesting2023
PJSK2T

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/lme-appoints-williamson-interim-board-chairman-2023-04-21/
This will end well

>>54701729
>>54701789
>I bet by the end of the camp RR didn't hold a single uranium company

kek, Rick strikes again leaving countless bagholders in his wake. Don't miss the next opportunity anons! Sign up below!!!


https://opptravel.zohobackstage.com/TheRuleSymposiumonNaturalResourceInvesting2023

>>54712707
Someone here was part of it. I wonder who it was.

>>54695691
>What is Austrian economics?
American School of Economics > Austrian School

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)

>>54713411
>American School of Economics

TL;DR:
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM

IHUSASMISU

America Delenda Est!

RIP

Is there any way for me to buy polymetal as a US citizen? I previously bought ticker POYYF using fidelity but they no longer allow it.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/APPH/financials?p=APPH
Anybody looking into agricultural plays? I found these guys looking into seed companies and milling firms. Not sure how I stumbled on them but if one of you big brains would be so kind as to peek at their books I would be super appreciative
Also there's a seed company in Longmont Colorado
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SANW?p=SANW&.tsrc=fin-srch
S&w seed company. 52 week low on these guys as well

>>54716752
I like uan. They do ferts

>>54716752
So the first company apph is dogshit. They're hemorrhaging money. Revenues of 16m but loss of 50m for a 60m market cap? Company is sinking bad. If you want an ag company find one that does actual agriculture and not cyber tech faggotry.

Good job looking. Keep up the quest but this particular company is complete and total dogshit.

I really like UAN. They have a strong balance sheet, pay a dividend, and focus on the commodity and nothing else. Texas based.

>>54716930
Dogshit company. Avoid.

>>54716752
Sanw looks like an actual company that produces actual products. They did make a profit on their Financials, however they have large operating expenses and ended up having a loss.

It's not total dogshit though like the other one. This part of the year is not a good time for agriculture. Ira epstein says he usually stays away from it at this part of the year. So maybe they're just getting hit hard because of seasonality. However it's not dogshit. I'd keep my eye on it.

>>54717019
I'm looking for anything that's back to pre covid levels. I appreciate the help. I'll keep looking
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TLRY/profile?p=TLRY
Forgot these guys. Market cap is huge tho so not much upward mobility potential

>>54717019
Could I get in trouble if I knew something about apph that came from UVA in Charlottesville VA where my aunt worked until she retired? In Minecraft obviously

>>54712707
Rick literally said near the top in April last year that he was trimming and waiting for a pullback to re-enter. He is based if you actually listen to what he says and account for when he said it

>>54716752
I like IFOS.V right now. Phosphate guys that just got some good news

>>54716946
Lmao wonder if they banked with SVB

>>54717184
There is like 20 people who ever come in here, no one is going to know. Also its your retired grandma that would know this secret, not you.

>>54717428
It's about lawsuits and shit. Totally forgot until I started reading them I remembered something she said a year or so ago. I'll just avoid it like the plague. Fuck em

>>54702017
Encore at 1.15? you waiting 7 years for the next shemitah. Uranium sucks for people holding for the moon but was better trade than silver and pm bollox over the last couple of years. And i expect exactly the same over the next few. See what ccj earnings are saying, could pick up. 1.15... u joker

>>54716752
High risk for doubling your dosh imo. Better shit out there for that

>>54718185
Noted. I'm just curious and I know you guys know. I go thru at least 40 tickers a day. Moving sector by sector. Hoping to find a diamond in the rough
Danke

>>54716227
I wrote to them because I wanted to get more shares, they answered with pic related. Wasn't able to buy though from the EU.

https://www.mining.com/web/teck-scrambles-to-secure-split-vote-with-outcome-uncertain-cic-missing-in-action-and-back-office-issues-causing-frustration-source/

More interesting happenings with Teck!

>>54720129
When is the last time something like this happened with mega majors? The actual business of mining wasn't even on my radar at all until I met you guys. I assume that this is rare back and forth?

>>54720378
its been a while thats for sure, most of the time both parties are happy to join up. Teck wants nothing to do with a merger. Mergers and buy outs are common in mining, especially during times like right now, but Teck wants to remain independent from Glencore.

>>54720496
What is the best outcome, in your opinion? Im not interested in investing, I'm just curious. Glencore isn't above war crime or anything else for that matter

>>54721439
ah probably both parties agree to leave each other be, that would be the best option for both, but wont make any money. Teck could offer a deal on their coal spin off business, in exchange for cash or for a chunk of one of glencore's operations. Glencore could just do a hostile take over and totally dominate Teck, but the market might not like that, regulators wouldnt.

BTUsisters?
Is it time?

>>54710828
Lula’s going to say that those are “our dividends”

I have never bought on margin because I heard you can get BTFO fast doing it. However Gary Savage actually advices when its safe doing it and says its coming soon, so I am going to try. What are people's stories with leverage? Success, failure?

Damn, China falling bretty badly... and copper follows of course. My miners haven't exactly gone well this past week. Bros, please hold me. Supercycle when? At least I got my stable semis to balance my portfolio

>>54723577
>>54722308
If you are expecting to swing trade as you would shit coins you might be disappointed. Buy things you think are undervalued and wait. The worst is it goes to zero. Leverage, shorts have no ceiling for losses.

>>54723986
Nah, I'm still in the blue so it's all fine. It just pisses me off I can make more money by trading semis in a month than a whole year with miners.

>>54724346
I've been saying for years mining is one of the very worst sectors to invest in. Since at least 2020.

I'm actually a bit famous for telling you how bad mining investments usually are. People used to raise quite a fuss when I suggested it might be a bad investment.
even now /pmg/ blows several gaskets when some troll tells them they're probably not going to get rich off metals. Which is weird. Statistically, historically, metals and mining are pretty weak investments. They do have their moments, and maybe you guys will catch one of those moments. I think the guys that were posting pre-covid probably made a buck or two if they had the sense to sell in fall of 20. Probably didn't, but maybe.

>>54724694
I've watched miners pop off 4-10x jn the last three years. Just little pops here and there. The sector is gonna coom big. Just gotta wait.

>>54724718
Yep, individual metals have done some crazy things. And individual miners have as well.

the sector as a whole tends to underperform though. I had friends that bought index funds in 2008/9 and again in the crash of 20 and retired millionaires shortly after. Mining will probably get another boom or two in the next few years, but I'd guess the markets in general will drive the boom, and will still outperform miners.

>>54724743
>>54724346
Derivatives account for a bigger slice of the pie than the equities they are built on and equities are a bigger slice of the pie than the commodities they are built from.
The corruption is rampant. Why wouldn't tptb moving huge blocks of derivatives manipulate the futures market down to keep mining barely profitable?

>>54724874
That's why I fully support the anon the other day that wanted to look into this evil scam.

I expect what you'll find if you research it is that the terrible people shorting metals into the dirt are actually the miners themselves.

see, if you make a ton of silver you also short a ton of silver, that way if the price crashes and you lose money on your silver, you still made money on your shorts.

that's literally what commodities derivatives were invented for, and without them miners would simply quit mining because half the time they'd be losing money.

>>54724893
or to put it another way, miners can't work at a profit when metals prices are constantly running up and down. They'd rather have a steady price of $20 than a price that constantly jumps between $10 and $40.

because they require guaranteed prices to get credit and plan purchases.

derivatives were literally designed to do this. They add fake liquidity to the market and keep prices relatively steady so miners can know how much they will make and plan on it.

A lot is made of JP Morgan and other institutions, and I don't know how much they move markets. But I do know even without them you have billions of dollars coming from miners and silver users themselves trying to keep the line as flat as possible.

>>54724893
>>54724926
All of this is simply called "hedging," and it's literally what derivatives and secondary markets were invented for.

anyone vested in commodities really should understand this. It's actually pretty troubling that nobody on 4chan does.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_(finance)

>>54724893
>if you make a ton of silver you also short a ton of silver, that way if the price crashes and you lose money on your silver, you still made money on your shorts.
this is worth knowing, especially if your entire investment thesis is that futures are being used to hold down the price of commodities. Yes, yes they are. And it's the commodities producers themselves buying those futures.

As to why a company would short its own product, the wiki explains it. But basically it's just insurance. Much like I buy insurance in case my house burns down, even though my house burning down would be bad for my finances. It's a cheap bet to cover potentially huge losses. Just like a silver miner shorting silver is making a cheap bet that insures against much larger losses.

>>54724954
The financial instrument of derivatives are orders of magnitude greater than all mining of anything under the sun combined. Shorting as a miner would be a recipe for disaster simply because their pockets aren't nearly as deep.
>>54724926
Nobody ever manipulated the price of any commodity futures higher. What you're talking about is speculation. This is the ironing out of those wrinkles of volatility. Doing it any other way would naturally lead to consolidation or over correction which would only exasperate the issues that created the volatility initially, whatever that might be.
Imagine introducing yourself to a prisoners dilemma, as a producer, speculating what speculators are speculating in an effort to front run what they may or may not do.
The invisible hand would reward and punish accordingly. For a guy that doesn't believe TA holds any water, you sure do hold fast to the psychological principles while dismissing any quantitative means to delineate them

>>54725121
>The financial instrument of derivatives are orders of magnitude greater than all mining of anything under the sun combined.
yes. because not only are the miners shorting, so is everyone downstream that sells that ounce of silver. The refiner, the warehouse, the exchange, the mint, the retailer. They ALL take out a short position on every single ounce they sell, and a long position on every single ounce they buy. This is literally what a futures contract is.
>Shorting as a miner would be a recipe for disaster simply because their pockets aren't nearly as deep.
yet they all do it. Because their pockets aren't deep enough to handle a crash in prices.
>Nobody ever manipulated the price of any commodity futures higher.
JP Morgan got caught raising and lowering the price. Traders profit off volatility, not suppressing prices.
>For a guy that doesn't believe TA holds any water, you sure do hold fast to the psychological principles while dismissing any quantitative means to delineate them
not at all

producers and consumers want a flat line, we contract on a flat line. Banks and speculators want movement. They profit off movement in either direction.
These two forces oppose each other and trying to predict who's going to win next week or next day or even in the next minute is a fool's game.

>>54725073
Shorting puts you in a position to potentially lose infinitely more than you could ever hope to gain. While I don't doubt that idiots do it, the likelihood is infinitesimally smaller and the risks unmeasurably greater.
Dumber shit has happened

>>54725150
>producers and consumers want a flat line, we contract on a flat line. Banks and speculators want movement. They profit off movement in either direction.
Yes so it's not advantageous to play their game because they can afford to lose more than you can afford bluff

>>54725164
>Shorting puts you in a position to potentially lose infinitely more than you could ever hope to gain.
owning the product you're shorting means any loss from the short is covered by the gain in the product value.

likewise any loss in the product value is covered by the gain in the short.

and a short costs far less than the product itself, so it works as insurance.

>>54725180
>it's not advantageous to play their game because they can afford to lose more than you can afford bluff
I think a better strategy would be to play their game exactly, copy their positions to the penny.

but they will make far more money than you because they invested far more.

>>54725150
>JP Morgan got caught raising
>Raising
That's not possible. Holding a balloon underwater doesn't become lifting the balloon when you release it.

>>54725197
sure it does, if you fake a billion long positions and drive the price up.

what they were doing would have been perfectly legal if the contracts they were using were real. The reason it's illegal is because they didn't pay for the futures contacts they spoofed.

>>54725196
So you're now baited into a position that's untenable due to the disparity of liquidity that is such a grand gulf as to be inconceivable. It may occur but it's downright retarded

>>54725201
Price discovery would find a ceiling because long positions don't actually create artificial demand. Eventually the market would throw their hands up and start selling their positions to you.

>>54725215
I dunno, how else do banks get started? How they actually trade is a closely guarded secret in most cases, but if you could copy them presumably you'd make money just like they do. And if you kept putting that money back in and investing it like they do, you'd eventually be making billions.

I just don't know of any bank or trader that gives out their trades for free, so I can't do that. Not that I want to. I have better things to be doing it seems.

and ultimately none of that matters since metal prices WILL go up over time as long as they're traded in fiat that's being purposefully inflated. Whether they'll beat inflation I don't know, but I would think so considering how many humans are on the planet and being born every day that want stuff made with metals.

Show me one example of any futures market being spoofed to achieve a higher price fraudulently. It's pants on head retardation.

>>54725224
>Eventually the market would throw their hands up and start selling their positions to you.
not if you place the order and then cancel it seconds later, do that billions of times per second, and never either pay for the order or deliver on it.

in that case a computer and a hard working criminal could very easily move price a few cents per minute and never buy anything.

>>54725243
I already did.

if JP Morgan was capable of both raising and lowering prices, why the hell would anyone think they were just lowering them? They dropped the price, bought, and then raised the price and sold.

>>54725245
Only downward. You won't be able to produce one example of the opposite actually happening. For reasons I already covered

>>54725251
>Raising
I'm sure you have plenty of examples that aren't basically them releasing the submerged balloon. This isn't spoofing upward... this is lack of spoofing downward allowing for price discovery above the suppressed price
Submerged balloon. Simple as

>>54725257
>You won't be able to produce one example of the opposite actually happening
I don't have to prove anything to you

I have suggested something you might want to look into yourself, and for at least 3 years you've called me wrong about it.

Nobody in this thread or the other has ever explained how they can lower prices and be unable to raise them the same way.

nor has anyone ever shown any evidence that they did.

all we know is they spoofed orders using cancelled futures contracts. There is no reason for them to only lower prices, they could easily raise them as well with exactly the same process.

>>54725276
You can't prove anything to me because the mechanism simply doesn't work that way. You can't magically make the price of gold leap to one million because you'd find takers on the way up. Even if you heaved money at it until gold was one million bucks and bought it all up, the price is now one million because you're buying everything that's available for one million, therefore gold is worth one million until you are no longer a buyer at that price point

>>54725276
>Nobody in this thread or the other has ever explained how they can lower prices and be unable to raise them the same way
Maybe read the documents from the JPM case you have cited as your cornerstone for this absurdity?

>>54725291
>You can't prove anything to me because the mechanism simply doesn't work that way.
true, you can't short or long the price that far up or down.

they were moving the price by a few pennies each way. Do that billions of times and you have millions of free dollars.
>>54725303
>Maybe read the documents from the JPM case you have cited as your cornerstone for this absurdity?
You've posted them, I read them. They didn't specify.

I agree with you guys if they were trying to corner the silver market they'd spoof the price down and slurp. But the Hunt Bros are good enough evidence that that's a bad idea. And while they have a shitload of silver, that would only serve to raise prices by decreasing inventory.

what's this fag up to?

>>54725374
https://ceo.ca/gog

Mad that someone leaked his Gog selling. Hopefull its not someone from here otherwise I'll stop saying anything

>>54725429
all anyone had to do is look at his GV twatter to see he retweeted nothing about the halt ending to know he was selling. isn't he finished? why would he be big mad?

>>54725338
You don't understand how futures work. The price absolutely can not be spoofed up. It's not possible. That same scenario simply would not hold water the other direction. Because eventually someone will take you up on it. Manipulating the price up doesn't increase demand, but increases supply by motivating selling as the price rises to meet the next price point. In no plausible scenario does an increase in price correlate to an increase in demand. That's just dumb

>>54725587
>Because eventually someone will take you up on it.
>eventually
not if you cancel the order

>>54725626
Then the price point remains unchanged because you can't instill fear to coerce sellers into a higher price point.
The stick has become the carrot.
But hey man, whatever you wanna believe that helps you sleep at night is what you should believe

>>54725666
Checked

It's not fear it's greed. If you order all my inventory I'll raise prices

>>54725726
You'll find zero examples of this because it defies the laws of supply and demand. And if you're cancelling the order anyways then I have nothing to buy.
This is basic shit. Spoofing works one direction. One. Not two. One.
I'll wait for those examples tho. I got all day

>>54725429
wow, GOG down to .11

Oh, noes, lithium broes!
It's over.

What's up with Ecopetrol?

>>54728514
I'm dumb it was the dividend record date.

>>54725243
It happened in the seventies with gold.

Manipulation happens up and down. Just depends on the trend. Right now we're are in a downwards manipulation trend.

>gold above 2k again
>silver recovered from the morning double smash to 25
Now onward to 2.1k and 26.

>>54730429
option did expire 45min ago for this month comex. So yeah, pretty obvious now we can go up.

Meanwhile...

>>54730466
God I hate those faggots. All I can think is "these fuckers are literally conspiring against me personally from making it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/25/britons-need-to-accept-theyre-poorer-says-bank-of-england-economist?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1682435549
>Britons ‘need to accept’ they’re poorer, says Bank of England economist

>>54726225
>You'll find zero examples of this
I already gave you one

>because it defies the laws of supply and demand.
Yes. The reason it works is the same reason they can enter billions of orders a day.
it's computers doing the trading, not people.

computer "sees" a billion buy orders a day and automatically raises its sell price. Other computers see sell price go up and raise buy price. JPM sells and computers buy. JPM then cancels buy orders.

I think part of the problem here is you guys think people are executing these trades. They just program computers to do it.

>>54730616
As an American I find it so strange there is a castle of a family with golden piano who are referred to as a literal royalty and they have accepted it and never tried to take back the wealth they accumulated from their ancestors.

>Gold and USD going up together.
What does this mean?

>>54730800
Usd is being manipulated ahead of fomc, and gold is a beach ball that can no longer be held under the sea because ariel let go when she found some fentanyl on the ground.

>>54726225
the other reason it works both ways is because people and their computers don't usually make delivery or take delivery on futures contracts.

The contract gets cancelled at the last minute and no actual silver usually changes hands. Because the contract is bought as insurance, and people only take/make delivery if the trade they're hedging loses money. And even then delivery is usually cash, not silver.

so as you guys rightly point out, the price of paper silver becomes disconnected from real silver, which is entirely the point of futures. It can't be completely disconnected though, because of real supply and demand. JPM can't hold the price up or down for more than a few seconds. But seconds is all it needs to execute computerized trades and make money.

>>54730616

>>54730164
>>54730700
>>54730903
You did not, cannot provide a single example because it is not possible. Yell at your computer you dumb bitch but it won't change a fucking thing. The fact you can't comprehend how it works tells me you've never once looked into it on even the most fundamental, basic level.
We're not arguing, you're fucking retarded and you can't possibly learn how it works, or fails to work, because you assume you know shit you don't know shit about.

Is Rana still alive? I'm not feeling so good

>>54717019
I boughted a small position of 500 cheeseburgers in that Colorado seed company. I don't know shit about ag, seeds, or anything like that.
This is gonna sound blatantly, flamboyantly stupid, but I compared the memelines laid over a handful of grain futures to look for a correlation. Finding myself looking for things that may or may not exist. Poltergeists tormenting Forrest Gump.
Poltergump

>>54730700
>you guys think people are executing these trades
Proof you don't know what spoofing even is . There is no trade if the orders are cancelled. You can't have you cake and eat it too. You're so far off base you're standing in handicapped parking under the blue line next to a gay bar in boystown and you can't even find Wrigley field to get back in the game. It's not complicated you just think you can't be the thesis and antithesis simultaneously. People like them and you are irrefutable evidence that the only limitations on stupidity is the amount of oxygen available to power the last three brain cells playing king of the hill in the sandbox of your mind.
I've gotten dumber trying to explain this concept to you. I would persist but I don't wanna wake up one day and be stuck between you and the daneggar clawing my way back towards that third digit in my IQ

>>54733123
***Can be***
I'm exhausted. I need to sleep but it's only Tuesday

Smart sand of Texas
Source energy services of Wisconsin

Don't say I didn't tell you guys

>>54733123
>There is no trade if the orders are cancelled
correct

trading algos don't respond to only real trades. They can't tell if you're going to cancel an order or not. So they respond to volume and direction of trading. They see a billion buy orders and automatically raise sell price to get more money

this would never work on a person, but people aren't the ones raising prices. It's automated all to hell.

I can see this makes you angery and you think I'm dumb for disagreeing with you. Which is fine, you've made it this far in life without my advice.

but a wise reader would check into it and see for themselves. JPM is not some great and benevolent company, they're pretty much the heart of evil. But the way they were manipulating markets wasn't Hunt brothers 2.0

>>54733393
The price cannot be spoofed up because increase in price doesn't increase demand, but the opposite. You can't negate the laws of supply and demand. Nothing is indicative of this correlation outside of a mere misconception. Spoofing works down and down only by fomenting fear-the stock. Spoofing up (not even possible) would disincentivize this behavior and reward instead of punish.
You cant threaten someone with a good time. Please tell me you're trolling me and just pretending to be retarded on me for your own amusement

>>54733242
There was one California Public water works company that has returned nicely, perhaps even more than VWTR in the same timeframe.

Also fag Trudeau is apparently “very serious” about Canada’s nuclear future..

how to analyze and model junior miners on excel?

>>54708645
>>54707283
Why?

>>54735823
Both nations are seeing their governments become less stable, and more leaning toward nationalization of major economic resources. Peru especially has had some serious protests against the government from rural populations against major mining projects.

Also hello again all hows your day been? Loads of rain and very busy on my end.

>>54695992
You getting burned on boil?

>>54737302
Gardening mostly. Watching this banking thing slowly unfold is like watching a slow moving train crash

What's the point of all this commodity shit? Anyone actually get better returns than the market long term?

>>54737302
pretty good, snowing in colorado again.
as usual.

>>54737755
>Anyone actually get better returns than the market long term?
nope, everyone's just lighting buckets of cash on fire up in here. You'd think they'd run out after a few years but so far no. It's a mystery.

>>54737755
It's not about the money
It's about sending a message

>>54737913
>lighting buckets of cash on fire up in here
I couldn't keep up so I bought a 773 bobcat skid steer to keep me from hauling so many buckets

>>54737913
It snowed on the first day of summer when I lived in Blackhawk. Turned to hail and tore the brand new roof up. It was wild like North Texas golf ball sized hail.
I miss Northrop and collegiate peaks this time of year. Hot springs right beside an ice cold creek with snowy banks of well rounded river rocks.
Gorgeous country. The ShangriLa of the west

>>54695691
UGLIEST GOLD NUGGET I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE WOW

>>54700714
why would he take it down? Really weird how people here seem to hold him accountable for the company going bankrupt, as if he was responsible for that

>>54702017
>I got out of Uranium last July because I figured it's not going anywhere and will probably tank to where it started from, looks like we're still on our way there.
Interesting. Rick thinks uranium will go up this year. He expects $75/lb price due to the costs necessary to open new mines. But he isn't excited in the uranium juniors since they are still fairly expensive, says he hasn't got a favorable private placement. Personally I'm holding Kazatomprom for the long term right now. The dividend is very nice

>>54708918
just wait until the SMRs evolve mate. Shipping industry is going to love using those in about a decade or two

>>54717249
this. Retards only hear the company names he mentions and take those as an immediate and permanent BUY recommendation. You have to actually listen to what he is saying but that requires a triple digit IQ so that disqualifies certain anons sadly

>>54722308
If you're going for leverage with specific timing why not just go for options?

>>54731299
I'm a different person than the one you were talking to. Lower your tone.

>>54731299
The federal reserve spoofed the entire market. There.

>>54732667
Dude just buy uan. It's a feet company with solid fundamentals. I made like 60% on that inevstment last year and the company has plenty of room for growth and wait until the Russia War kicks off and we can't get any fertilizer. They're in perfect posistion to dominate the market and jts a small ass market cap. It's a texas based company. That should be good enough reason and I don't think people get that. Texas companies are going to save the US in the next decade.

>>54733123
itt Jeff Christian.

>>54733242

Noted.

>>54739076
Fertilizer not feet lol.

>>54738884
Rick is making O'Dea out to be one of the most talented people in the industry and he turned out to be a complete failure. Any company connected to his Oxygen Capital group of companies, which consists of Pure Gold, Liberty Gold and Discovery Metals should be taken as a giant red flag

Now that we're going sideways & choppy for 6 months to a year... GDX under $33 is a bargain? What rule of thumb are you guys using to buy dips?

>>54739114
>and he turned out to be a complete failure
One failure. Fronteer Gold was sold to Newmont for $2.3B for example

Trading is psychological, not technical

>Mark Douglas - How to think like a professional Trader (all parts) | Trading Psychology Seminar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s--sCEcYIGI

Lmao remember that one time you guys got scammed into buying gayhorse silver? And one anon in particular warned you about falling for the silver jew scam? Lol. Lmao even.

>>54695691
URAAAANIUM FEVER HAS GOT ME FEELING DOWN, URAAAAANIUM FEVER IS SPREADING ALL AROUND

>KOLD
>MARA
>RIOT
>CLSK
Good morning... Wednesday morning

>>54740320
You think KOLD is a good buy rn?

>>54740355
I bought yesterday. Today is the last trading day for May contracts. Then Henry Hub storage report tomorrow. Will flip it for BOIL today or tomorrow.

Trade trade trade.

>>54740264
I like how Bitcoin is tossed in there compared to gold since those two are totally relevant to the bhs saga

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/26/first-republic-rescue-pitch-help-now-or-pay-more-later-when-it-fails.html
Too big to fail bailout or let it get too biggerer to fail and bail them out anyways

>>54740264
Was this PP the one that broke Silver Jew's buck for good, or was it another one? I was taking a break from this board at the time but I read about the cosmic BTFO that happened in /smg/. He had just said that they wouldn't be doing any more equity issuances ever again only to be proven hilariously wrong in the very same thread. Many keks were laffed that day, wish I had been able to witness it

>>54741203
It was. He stomped his feet out the door and made himself a victim. There are people here who still defend him too.

>>54741199
lmao, meanwhile I am positive they never gave a shit on any family that fell behind on their mortgage. Fuck banks to hell.

>>54740874
It was the silver jew who brought to bitcoin anon. Please try to keep up. I warned you. I tried to help. You are welcome for my warning.

Nighthawk released their PEA today. Up 25%.

Looks like a whole lot of solar companies are now at or reaching even below the 2020 levels before that 21 spike.
If they don't go bust then these are looking like a pretty good entry points for them.
Just like wind, solar is going to increasingly suck the government tit on a global level, so that industry will do just fine going forward.

Did the Goliath holders in here remember to sell the top? Looking kind of grim.

>>54742365
Thanks for the warning senpai
I totally wouldn't have noticed that s nake oil salesman from 16 blocks away because I have the wherewithal of Helen Keller

>>54740264
Yes, I'm still holding BHSIF and BLAGF bags from 2 years ago
Have no idea what to do at this point. I'm mentally ready to kiss that $5k goodbye

>>54745767
Some people still believe in BLAGF.

>>54740264
>I bought $5k of Wallbridge (ticker WM) somebody do DD for me and let me know if I have to sell it
hope you ended up doing the DD and selling anon... KEK

https://www.mining.com/teck-takes-restructuring-plan-off-the-table-ahead-of-vote/

Teck seems to be in some chaos at the moment. The split deal that was supposed to be voted on today is going ahead without a vote. Glencore is not happy.

Bitcoin is fucking dupming!

Smart sand @ 52w low
Source energy services @ 52w high

>>54744410
Sold out a while ago. Any news?

>>54747994
>>54744410
They announced a PeePee

>>54742577
I think it's going to be a mine, but that study seems extremely optimistic. C$2.5/t mining cost? please. C$650M capex for a 17ktpd project including sizeable renewable energy system in the middle of nowhere, not a chance.

>>54731299
futures in pre and aftermarket are low volume and easily manipulated

>>54749248
Down
Never up. Not possible
Cite me one example that's documented like the JPM case those clowns are going to pound me in the asshole prison for...

>>54744410
sometimes buying the 52 week low works out really well, they have cash now, what's the rundown on what they've hit and are drilling next?

>>54749270
low volume means you can just buy futures and the price goes up. when the market actually opens, it can dump right back down, but you can easily manipulate the pre-market price higher or lower if you are a large institution

here's an example from today. this is a stock example - not a futures contract technically, but it should illustrate the point. the candle the cursor is pointing to is a +0.13% candle on AAPL on the 1minute chart. the volume is 1004 shares @ ~$163.76/ea.

1004 x 163.76 = ~$165k
so with just 165k$, you can manipulate the price of AAPL stock upwards +.13%. now imagine you are an institutional trader with 10m$ to trade - you could manipulate the price up +7% with 10m$ in under 1 minute

>>54749270
a person can't learn something they really don't want to believe.

>>54749270
the CFTC states that JPM manipulated prices both up and down on numerous metals.

>The order finds that, from at least 2008 through 2016, JPM, through numerous traders on its precious metals and Treasuries trading desks, including the heads of both desks, placed hundreds of thousands of orders to buy or sell certain gold, silver, platinum, palladium, Treasury note, and Treasury bond futures contracts with the intent to cancel those orders prior to execution. Through these spoof orders, the traders intentionally sent false signals of supply or demand designed to deceive market participants into executing against other orders they wanted filled. According to the order, in many instances, JPM traders acted with the intent to manipulate market prices and ultimately did cause artificial prices.

>https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8260-20

>>54750415
Probably the biggest misunderstanding of this case is the idea that JPM manipulated prices up or down for long periods of time or by large amounts of money

in real life spoofing is done via computer, and each instance lasts just a few seconds and moves the price just a few cents.

while they undoubtedly did it a lot, over a long period of time, the effect was not a sustained increase or decrease in price. The idea is to just bump the price up or down a few cents and immediately execute a trade before canceling the orders and letting the price immediately return to normal.

>>54750480
this does not mean that JPM is NOT shorting silver and buying. They probably are. And that's perfectly legal to do. It's just not what they got busted for, and it's not market manipulation to short a commodity and then buy it.

>>54750535
>that's perfectly legal to do...it's not market manipulation to short a commodity and then buy it.
and if anons believe that JPM is shorting silver down in price for the purpose of buying it, they perhaps should be buying silver, because copying JPM's trades is probably going to make you money.

I don't know that JPM is doing that. But if they are, you could probably make money copying them. Though things like taxes and premiums are going to hurt your profits short-term on physical metals, something JPM doesn't have to worry about.

>>54750577
and again, suppressing the price of silver with paper shorts and then buying silver at the suppressed price is not market manipulation. It is not illegal or corrupt.

It's just normal, perfectly egal commodities trading.

>>54750480
Jeff Christian had found the thread.

>>54750480
This is why I find it a bit frustrating when people bring up spoofing/manipulation. The narrative from permabulls seems to be that prices are kept low by this activity, but the reality is that spoofing only affects very short term and small price movements. Spoofing literally cannot stop prices from going up or down in the longer term, it can only be used to create small price swings measured in minutes or hours. Of course, it is illegal and that's why we have seen certain actors punished by it. But to suggest this activity actually is able to stop price discovery by the whole market is simply ludicrous

>>54751581
the mechanism the propose, that is shorting the market and then taking delivery, could very well be suppressing the market long term.

It's just not illegal unless you corner the market Hunt brothers style. And it would cost a fortune to do long-term. JPM and others might be holding the price down. I don't know. But it's not what they got fined for.

>>54751581
>>54751665
dont forget the price of gold is a matter of national security. when gold goes up in price, it undermines the US Dollar, which is the greatest global economic weapon the US has. it is in the gov'ts best interest to suppress the gold price and i believe they partner w/ the big banks to do it. the big banks are a part of the financial complex the same way Lockheed, Raytheon, and Northrup are a part of the military industrial complex - they basically are the gov't

>>54751665
spoofing is illegal because the orders are fake and they didn't pay for them.

actually shorting the market with real orders they paid for to drive down prices is perfectly legal in the US and presumably the rest of the world. That's just normal trading. If a person has enough money to crash the silver market and hold it down, they're allowed to do that.

>>54751703
You may be right, but I doubt it. Mostly because holding down silver and gold doesn't do any good when bread, steaks, toilet paper, gasoline, housing, and everything else is going through the roof.

inflation across all sectors weakens the dollar, not just in metals.

>>54751665
>>54751708
>if they're just doing normal trading then they could really be affecting price movements in the longer term
but we're talking about spoofing specifically anon. Of course if you go short and the order is genuine then you're affecting the price also in the longer term because you are a genuine market participant. But then you're not manipulating the price anymore.
>>54751703
USD (against other currencies) and gold can go up at the same time. And I expect them to do that in the longer term. USD is still the best currency in the world because insitutions prefer parking their money in dollars rather than renminbi for example. For the foreseeable future this will remain the norm. Gold price is near its all time highs, if there really was a cabal of bankers and govt agencies engaged in a concerted effort to keep the price down do you really think gold would be as high as it is? Give me a break

>>54751776
>Of course if you go short and the order is genuine then you're affecting the price also in the longer term because you are a genuine market participant.
yep

but this is usually what the silverbugs accuse JPM of doing. And they probably are doing it. Very few here seem to realize it's not illegal. It happens all the time.

what commodities are in accumulation?

So spoofing to raise prices increase demand?
Higher prices = more demand

Dumbest shit I've ever read. Thanks lads

>>54751858
>So spoofing to raise prices increase demand?
nope, spoofing has no effect on demand because the price only stays up for a second or two.

generally rising prices decrease demand, but you have to create demand to raise prices. Creating 2 seconds worth of fake demand raises prices for 2 seconds, and then you sell.

>>54751858
say I run a silver shop. I buy and sell at the same price. You come in and say you want to buy my whole inventory at $30/oz. I then raise my prices to $40/oz. Then you sell me your inventory at $40 and cancel your order for all my silver.

in that case you ripped me off and it's illegal.

It's not illegal to order silver. It's not illegal to cancel an order. It's just illegal to order silver, sell silver when the price goes up, and then cancel the order.

because in that case you're creating fake demand to raise prices and sell at the higher (fake) price.

>>54752030
Of course no human would fall for this sort of obvious scam.

the only reason it works is because it's computers doing the trades, not humans.

>>54752030
You don't understand how it works and that's ok
I've written many articles about it and been published all over the fucking place. I won't link them because fuck you
If you read the JPM case files you'd see what you're missing. You think the laws of supply and demand are suspended because computers exist which is just absurd.
We're not arguing, you just don't understand and I don't care to correct you

>>54751776
>if there really was a cabal of bankers and govt agencies engaged in a concerted effort to keep the price down do you really think gold would be as high as it is?
uhh... yes absolutely. its not just the US gov't who doesn't like gold.... its every central bank in the world. gold undermines every fiat currency

>>54752140
If its fiat then just make the dollar worth more than gold?

>>54752119
I can be mistaken, and I'm certainly willing to learn if I am.

I doubt either of us is going to change our minds though, and as you say, that's fine. If I'm right it doesn't change anything about the silver thesis.

>>54752179
>certainly willing to learn
And that's why I love you're old, crazy ass bob

>>54752225
love you too man and I appreciate you arguing with me.

Does anyone think gold is going to go much higher than $2000?

>>54752242
Maybe? Even during the recent choppiness, it had resistance. The mint ratio looks bullish right now, which implies gold will outpace silver (stronger gains or small losses) - both could drop, for example

>>54752357
Thank you for the useless comment.

>>54751776
gold is severely undervalued considering the amount of inflation created in the past 15 years.

>>54740264
ah the good ol days with the retard, lassen, tonto, silver jew, all the fake DD with the shitty techical drawings. The one dood pointing out the technical reports had to be withdrawn, all the crying, the promises the stock would moon, Graeme taking all the money and never producing anything. Was the retard the same retard who made 60+ posts every thread who would immediately out himself if you asked "where's the retard at?" There were so many retards it was hard to keep track.

>>54752744
I wasn't in that thread but I did read it. That was the year I had to drive up to Montana and over to Indiana for club stuff. I quit posting in June or some shit when I was flying fishing the trinity river just before that trip. By then it gotten really bad, as nigmare had topped out at 21¢ and the threads had split into firmly entrenched camps regarding the entire bhs fiasco.
That's when I withdrew and left you niglets to piss in silver Jews cereal because my work had been done and the damage was irreparable.
I only sat and watched it all burn down around

>>54752140
you're full of shit. Many central banks are net buyers of gold. China and Russia specifically.

Horay I thought I was screwed! Power outage nearly melted my desktop.
Might have some info on a project tomorrow, its one of those silica projects that no one seems to have noticed.

>>54753230
>Silica
I'm about to go balls deep on wisco sand. I'm curious to hear what you have PM

The silver stacker, the hoarder of worthless millenial rocks, is a lowly creature, no more powerful than an amoeba, oppressed by the elite, held down by the man, but despite being powerless, they/them feel the need to resist, to fight back against their masters, to fight the bondage. Knowing this instinct the master devised one simple trick. Convince the serfs to happily give their owner all their resources in exchange for shiny rocks with the (laughable) belief these magic beans will destroy the system, will set them free, that they will emerge from the wagie cage winners for once in their miserable lives.

>>54753404
tl dr

>>54753404
Ok Moshe, I’ll keep hoarding rocks

>>54753110
>Many central banks are net buyers of gold. China and Russia specifically.
on a temporary basis in times of crisis, sure. but in the grand scheme of things, gold is the enemy of fiat. central banks hold some gold for reserves, yes, but their entire existence depends on people maintaining confidence in their fiat

>>54753702
And they don't need to conspire together to keep gold down in order to maintain the public's confidence in fiat. For crying out loud look at the gold chart will you. Gold has gone up by 5x in twenty years. Fiat will keep depreciating and gold will keep going up. Your narrative is retarded and stupid.

>>54753702
>gold is the enemy of fiat

Lmao how do people come up with this crap?

>>54753809
>>54753849
what exactly do you think gives fiat any value? confidence, that's it.
>>54753702
>And they don't need to conspire together to keep gold down in order to maintain the public's confidence in fiat
sure they do. ever wonder why financial education is not taught in public schools? that's on purpose. go back to watching Netflix goy and stop asking questions about central banking

>>54754129
How is gold the enemy of fiat? How has gold ever made fiat go down?

>>54754129
irl:
>Gov issues fiat currency
>requires you to pay taxes with their fiat currency
>taxes everything you earn, buy, sell, or own
>everything you earn, buy, sell, and own has to be given a fiat value so it can be taxed
>if you refuse, burly men in tanks and helicopters wielding machine guns and tear gas will bodily remove you from your home and family placing you in a cage with violent criminals who will likely rape and kill you

some kid on 4chan:
>what exactly do you think gives fiat any value? confidence, that's it.

>>54754190

>>54754190
>some kid on 4chan who obsessively listens to gold and silver merchants and believes the FUD they spread

Exactly

>>54754302
Hello IQDELET.
welcome to the thread.
I don't think you're going to like it, because this thread moves much slower, and has fewer posters. So you're not going to be able to ruffle as many feathers here unless they decide to let you.

>>54753496
Appeal to tradition.

>>54754129
>what exactly do you think gives fiat any value? confidence, that's it.
Want to know why USD is the world's reserve currency? It's because institutions prefer the stability of the U.S. above all else. There are strong property rights in the U.S., and the country is surrounded by two oceans making the country distant from conflicts in the world. Further, dollars have never been canceled and U.S. govt debt has never been defaulted on. Put yourself in the shoes of entities like governments of big banks, would you prefer settling transactions in dollars or some other currency? The USD and US govt debt still inspire confidence globally today, which is why it's still the world's reserve currency.

Gold, while a great store of value, is not a good medium of exchange so it's not used for global transactions. Currency is the polar opposite of gold: it doesn't have a great track record of maintaining its value in the long term, but it's a convenient medium of exchange. Gold and currency serve different purposes so I find it amusing that some goldbugs seem to have this idea that currency issuers need to wage war on the gold price. It's simply ludicrous on its face, aside from nobody even trying to come up with proof

>>54754333
61 posts by the retard who brags about paying 61% premiums , impressive (losses)

>>54754567
Appeal to tardation

>>54755596
Yep, as Copernicus said 500 years ago, bad money drives out good, they can cry all they want about fiat, but the $ is the undisputed king and silver shitcoins days were ended half a century ago. Millennial rocks are instant losers

>>54755655
clearly not what is being argued here. You're arguing in bad faith mate

>>54755708
This is big brain stuff go buy some wheat pennies

>>54755775
sure right after we return to $2k metal coins as a means of exchange

>>54755775
I'm sure you'll change a lot of minds here. Since you're so smart and all

>>54754722
governments dont like gold because they can't print it and therefore cannot run a deficit budget with gold or a gold standard
>>54754189
>How is gold the enemy of fiat? How has gold ever made fiat go down?
gold vs the USD trade directly against each other on a daily basis. do you actually trade or are you just retarded?

havent been to /cmmg/ in a while and holy fuck it's actually gotten dumber. i guess a commodities bear market does that to people. to argue that gold is not the enemy of fiat is the dumbest fucking shit i've ever seen in these threads. that's not even a biased goldbug opinion.

gold is not a commodity, by the way. it's a currency

>>54757124
>governments dont like gold

Lmao, another low iq take from a retard who lost money on gold

>>54757124
>How is gold the enemy of fiat? How has gold ever made fiat go down?
gold vs the USD trade directly against each other on a daily basis

By that logic water is the enemy of fiat, toilet paper is the enemy of fiat, gee you lower the iq everytime you post, please go back wherever

>>54757124
and the award for the dumbest post in this thread goes to... nve9iDTN!

>>54753301
https://www.homerunres.com/homathko

See what you think of these guys, their working on a high grade silica open pit project near Golden, BC. It was a favorite of rock collectors for extremely pure / gemmy clear quartz crystal points. Loads of potential for an mine there.

>>54757813
>By that logic water is the enemy of fiat, toilet paper is the enemy of fiat, gee you lower the iq everytime you post, please go back wherever
uh no, that is you OWN faulty logic. water and toilet paper are not currencies and therefore not direct competitors to the USD. gold is a currency so yea it trades directly against USD, just like the JPY or GBP. but you're too much of a fucking retard to understand anything i'm saying and i'm not gona waste my time trying to explain shit to a teenager who has english as a second language

>>54757794
>Lmao, another low iq take from a retard who lost money on gold
i'm long physical gold you fucking brainlet. i bought just under 1700 so that would be ~+17% gains

somehow /smg/ is actually smarter than /cmmg/ now and i say that having been here since day 1. i feel sorry for PANMAN who's been here the whole time and has to deal w/ this shit