/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>54488838
The Renminbi is not freely traded. The Chinese engage in massive fuckery to maintain that USDCNY rate of just under 7. Not to mention the huge debt and demographic crisis they have on their hands. Good luck to them.

>>54488838
>Every single of the so-called "BRICS" countries is a failed state that is dependent on the U.S. dollars that only one institution can create = the U.S. banking system backed by the U.S. Federal Reserve chartered by the U.S. Congress. With the exception of the onshore Yuan (CNY), which is non-convertible, all of the currencies have lost significantly in the last 30-50 years to the USD, and all of these countries are dependent on USD-denominated exports cash revenue to back their own currencies - which so far only China succeeded at, but at a cost of sacrificing free currency rate.

Good morning glowie. At work early today?

amerimuttgoblin cope thread #123454323432

Two of the 5 BRICS members are the top issuers of the high yielding sovereign debt held by Blackrock's USD-denominated and USD-paying EMB ETF. Brazil and China are the least insolvent members of the BRICS "club" with Russia practically defaulting on its foreign-denominated debt in 2022 by refusing to pay in foreign currency. Though not present in the fund, India's and South Africa's default ratings remain below A-, which means they have to borrow USD at a higher yield just to get their hands on cash necessary to expand their economy (crushing their currencies even harder and increasing their demand for USD).

>>54488838
>>54488896
Those who dispute the plausibility of de-dollarization often presuppose that the Chinese will have to replace it with an identical but better system. But given that the current model has only existed for about 60 years out of roughly 6,000 years of human civilization, that idea is foolish. The Goths or the Vandals didn’t first have to come up with a better and more efficient model for the Roman Empire before they helped to topple it. Likewise, the current system can easily be replaced by something less orderly and more chaotic.

The danger to US global dominance isn’t that China will come up with a better system than the current one, but that worldwide demand for dollars will—for whatever reason—sink below a level where the United States can sustain its massive debt load. America today exports paper money and imports antibiotics, steel, and microchips. Without worldwide demand for that paper money, the US economy—and the American imperium—will seize up. The end result of that upheaval will likely be to make the West, and much of the world, a good deal poorer.

These inauspicious signs are likely to provoke more US belligerence in Asia. Empires, like banks, are machines that run on confidence. If too many countries lose faith in American power, then the crisis looming on the horizon will materialize quickly.

>>54488838
Richard, that you?

>>54488896
>practically defaulting on its foreign-denominated debt in 2022 by refusing to pay in foreign currency
So these countries are only in economical trouble according to some retarded metric from the gay pretend rulebook that fewer and fewer countries want to acknowledge.

>>54488838
>made a whole new thread
this is all just so much cope. how exhausting.

>>54488916
>America today exports paper money and imports antibiotics, steel, and microchips. Without worldwide demand for that paper money, the US economy—and the American imperium—will seize up
That is exactly right. And the only way to stop it is to pay off USD-denominated debt - both private and sovereign. Let's take China, and you will see that their USD-denominated debt has been expanding. Attempts to curb it led to drastic consequences for the consumer and the country alike. Evergrande's ultimatum issued by the CCP to deleverage led to a collapse in their USD-bonds value and unrest among investors (ordinary Chinese landlords) over unfinished properties. De-dollarization will come at a serious cost that has nothing to do with the waning might of the U.S. world hegemony. Quite the contrary. As U.S. economy slows down and the U.S. Dollars no longer being generated to fuel BRICS, their economies will decelerate and shrink even faster. I.e. a bad cough for the U.S. means extinction for BRICS.

>>54488838
That’s not how it works retard

>>54488973
>So these countries are only in economical trouble according to some retarded metric from the gay pretend rulebook that fewer and fewer countries want to acknowledge.

What will back the purchasing power of their local currencies if they default on their debt? During the Russian sovereign debt default in 1998, the value of the ruble collapsed, which led to a brief re-dollarization of the Russian economy. This was only reversed during the petrostate stage in 2000-2008, which started reversing in 2012 after the economic gains of 2000s were squandered on military adventures. Look at the result now. The country's poorer than ever in the last 40 years, and faces an economic depression unseen since 1947.

>>54488896
i think what you're afraid of is after they cut you off, after the dollars flood back home and we're all ruined, after the lines of communication to the outside world quiet down, and all the "alliances" and treaties and such increasingly spur no action or even statements from foreign governments in support of US goals abroad, and after they lose interest even in US domestic issues, that you're no longer a self-styled world leader keeping an irascible, idiosyncratic populace in line, stuck with you, the best they can seem to find.
no, instead, this quiet debt-ridden backwater is now better characterized as: you stuck in here with me, my bible, and my gun. and a long memory to call upon, even if the internet disappeared tomorrow.

>>54488838
imagine being this retared

>>54488995
I'm from Brazil and I'm OK with more chaos globally if it means Am*ricans get fucked too. You have no idea how much other countries hate you and your population.

>>54488838
Why do you care about 30-50 years of exchange rate history? Only 20 years ago, China was dirt poor and Russia was a basket case.

The main contender as reserve currency is yuan or some kind of BRICS SDF or bancor equivalent. No one cares about rand or real.

Besides, the point in ditching USD isn't necessarily that the alternative has an increasing exchange ratio to USD, the point is that the US can't veto your transactions and freeze your money anymore.

>>54489029
>you stuck in here with me, my bible, and my gun. and a long memory to call upon, even if the internet disappeared tomorrow.
I'm not moving to the U.S. but let's say that you're right and the U.S. becomes irrelevant in terms of its currency's role in the world economy. Why hasn't it happened already? You have to wonder, why some of these countries, which spent over a decade in their anti-U.S. stance (both Putin and Xi are in power since 2012), they both failed to de-dollarize completely? Why Russia banned its citizens from converting rubles to USD or EUR? Why implement a currency control mechanism on a currency that is so abundant in the world that it's practically worthless? Because the value of the currency is measured in the amount of debt it can pay off. The more debt there is, the stronger it becomes, because the demand for it grows. When all dollarized debt is paid off, we can discuss this scenario. But until then - if Xi and Putin failed to de-dollarize in 11 years, then don't expect that to happen in the next decade either. But if we are looking at a prospect of a U.S. economic depression, these countries will face an even larger challenge of staying afloat than the U.S. ever will, because they will run out of USD to pay their debt with. What happens when you lose credit? You can't expand your economy, you can't build tanks, you can't build ships, you can't pay your workers a living wage. BRICS will collapse without the dollar.

>>54489050
This so much americans tremble in fear just because they are now realizing they have no allies anywhere, being the class bully has its concecuences.
t. Europoor.
We all know you destroyed nord stream pieces of shit.
Think it rationally, you have a senile man as a president and they are pushing you woke propaganda nonstop. They want you dead and they think its funny, stop defending your already dead way of life lmao.

>>54489050
This. The US has spawned greedy criminals who have ruined what it once represented. The US is without doubt the world's no. 1 menace to peace and is hated by populations everywhere. Its failing rapidly and the rest of the world is looking forward to something better after the dust settles. It may well die with a fight but it's dying regardless. Its over, America. You fucked it.

>>54489101
>I'm not moving to the U.S.
didn't read the rest. you're not even american. your opinion is irrelevant.
you don't understand what's happening, but this is even worse

>>54489101
1. US still controls critical supply chains. Yuan as a fully viable reserve currency won't really be possible until, for example, China produces a fully domestic deep ultraviolet immersion photolithography machine at scale and with commercially viable yields. 2. China will need to boost its military further to prevent the likely lashing out that would result. 3. Historically, China has had monetary policies optimized for promoting Chinese exports, not for promoting the yuan as a reserve currency. They might change this when they think the time is ripe and the circumstances mature.

>>54489115
>t. Europoor
my fellow yuropoorian, you have no idea how much your life depends on the USD. Also, Nord Stream was an obvious settlement court move by the Russians to prevent being fined for non-fulfillment of their contract, but that's just details. The American government in its current form is too afraid and retarded to do anything like that. Plus the guy who "leaked" this story is a commie American-Lithuanian Jew with a history of loving arab invaders that loot our cities and rape our women.

>>54488838
Good morning Peter

1. US still controls critical supply chains. Yuan as a fully viable reserve currency won't really be possible until, for example, China produces a fully domestic deep ultraviolet immersion photolithography machine at scale and with commercially viable yields. 2. China will need to boost its military further to prevent the likely lashing out that would result. 3. Historically, China has had monetary policies optimized for promoting Chinese exports, not for promoting the yuan as a reserve currency. They might change this when they think the time is ripe and the circumstances mature.

>>54488838
you don't understand why they devalue their currencies, do you?
lmao

>>54488884
>No argument
>Pure seethe
It's ok sweetie. Maybe come back in 3 years to shill BRICS again. I'm sure people will buy in that time.

>>54489101
Even if fully cut off from foreign capital markets, their economies will still have running revenues and domestic capital markets.

I'm pretty sure that both China and Russia pay for their armaments in domestic currencies, and that the builders pay their suppliers in domestic currencies as well, and their armaments supply chain is 99% indigenized.

Russia doesn't even pay USD debts anymore because they were banned from doing the transactions.

>>54489197
You’re already buying it. Just go look at your clothes, computer, and your moms car. All made in brics.

>>54489245
Sorry sweety, my car was built in America, my phone in Korea, my clothes in Vietnam. Cry harder.

>>54489050
Nobody gives a shit about Brazilian niggers, or chinky slant eyed niggers pretending go be Brazilian. People with IQs over room temperature know that America is easily one of the best countries on Earth to live in, and that it's people are bamboozled by the rich. In fact, the rich from other countries all get together and conspire with Americans against the planet. Every country is corrupt, enslaves it people, and funnels the wealth back to the rich. If your chinky slant eyes can't understand that, there will never be help for your nigger brain.

>>54489272
>sweety
are you a tranny?

>>54489328
Are the trannies in the room with you right now?

>>54489050
Europoor here, I completely agree with you fren

>>54489115
Samefag chink poster

>>54489050
We know how much you hate us. We just don't care. Your countries don't matter and the sooner we can stop supporting you the better.

>>54489231
>Even if fully cut off from foreign capital markets, their economies will still have running revenues and domestic capital markets.
In some cases - yes. But, say, in India the domestic capital markets are dominated by exports and services exports. One of their biggest streams became the B2B outsourcing, with giants like Infosys and Wipro pouring in billions of USD into India economy over contracts with foreign corporate entities that have easy USD and EUR credit access.

>I'm pretty sure that both China and Russia pay for their armaments in domestic currencies, and that the builders pay their suppliers in domestic currencies as well, and their armaments supply chain is 99% indigenized.
True, but the value of those currencies is backed by their national economies' metrics which are dependent on USD-denominated exports. Exports are driving non-military production that is taxed and reallocated to the defense industry. That defense industry depends on the purchasing power of their national currency, which will go down with the decline in exports demand by the U.S.
>Russia doesn't even pay USD debts anymore because they were banned from doing the transactions.
Yes, and look at the technical default's consequences on its economy. It's a ghost of its pretty decent past.

>>54489342
>NOOOOOOO THE WORLD CANNOT BE AGAINST AMERICAAAA.
>MUST BE A CHINKSHILL!!!!

Fucking kek its even worse than I thought you guys are not prepared for the resentment the world has against you.

>>54489332
they're usually in pmg, which this is a BRICS thread, so highly related, and you are talking like a faggot, so... why don't you tell me?

>>54489140
>The US is without doubt the world's no. 1 menace to peace
You do realize the US Navy secures global shipping lanes, right? Without this protection, very bad shit will happen to your country, and millions will starve to death. It seems as if the US is the world's guarantee for peace.

https://wszystkoconajwazniejsze.pl/velina-tchakarova-united-states-and-the-significance-of-global-choke-points/

>>54489367
the most idiotic thing about what you're saying is that you're implying people who admit that de-dollarization is near impossible are somehow pro-U.S. I know I'm not. But I'm not stupid enough to scream "dollar is dead" when it obviously isn't, especially if you look at almost every other fiat currency that is not a part of the major foreign reserves basket. The only currency U.S. ever came close to be challenged with is probably Euro, but ever since 2009-2011 it's been little more than a dysfunctional yuropoor meme. (look up Greece)

>>54489376
>Confirming that BRICS cope is an extension of pmg cope
Imagine spending 10 years just for a 20% increase. You lost to inflation. Just buy boomer stocks you schizo retard
>But muh Jew fiat
BRICS is a collection of fiat currencies with dollar backed debts. Same game different board.

>BraziLOL
>Russia acting like it's the 18th century and trying to conquer more land even though they're sitting on arguably the most resource rich section of the entire planet besides the middle east with huge oil reserves
>India outcompeting everyone else for cheap skilled labor and directly fucking over China
>China fucking with India by damming rivers and still eternally BTFO for losing Apple to the jeets and seemingly incapable of complying with GAAP
>South Africa experiencing power outages 20-40% of each given day and incapable of not being racist assholes to white farmers long enough to get out of famine, also falling for midwit cope of hating fags
And all of them depending on the US holding their debt bags to keep them solvent as well as regular rounds of bailouts. I actually do hope BRICS does well so the US can stop subsidizing every other fucking country on earth so it's not forever stuck in poverty, suck our cocks and patrol your own waters and guarantee safety for your own commerce howbowdah.

Is this another thread where subhuman thirdies seethe about america?

>>54489411
Shh just let them do it. Bring the Navy home and let these retards kill each other. We can watch comfy as state funded piracy and privateering come back in fashion.

BRICS bros….. I don’t feel so good

>>54489490
And that's just the public data. CIA has been stealing gold for decades.

>>54489490
2019 called they want you to take the vaxx.

>>54489447
You don't get it do you?
Facts don't matter, the cog has already moved and the gun has been shoot to let go all the hate on you 1984 style.
The whole world sees the US as a weak state right now, you are clever enough to see that even so most things posted here are either and hyperbole or factually wrong but that does not matter.
This place brews the unconciouss onto the normie conciousness because individuals here are seen IRL as clever people, its about an idea spawning into reality and the time is now, it has already happened, even before the shoot was done it was already over.
I am just playing my role and no I am not paid.

>>54489519
Nothing has changed

>>54489465
theres this great story about the cilician pirates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilician_pirates which were a problem for decades and that the roman bureucracy (same as the american deep state) just couldnt solve, and how pompey, once given full power over the seas, was able to deal with them in only 3 months. no internet, no satellites, no nothing, just once he was given full power, he did it.

america is the disfunctional state that forces other countries to uphold "democracy" and doesnt allow individuals to take full power over their countries to solve some very basic problems that can be solved very quickly, like pompey did for the pirates. brazil, my country, if allowed a competent dictator (which wont happen until the us collapses) would be a wonderful country, like it was before the democracy meme took hold.

your country is not helping anyone, keeping a sea safe isnt some insurmountable problem. get off your high horse you fucking retarded am*rican

>>54489532
You don't get it. We WANT you to do this. The sooner the US doesn't need to babysit the world, the sooner we can focus our efforts at home, the sooner you retards kill each other stealing resources from one another, the sooner we swoop in to take everything when the dust settles.

>>54489571
>All piracy is rogue actors
What do you do when the neighboring dictator with more money and power than your dictator decides that the oil you just paid the Saudis for is actually their oil?

>>54489475
I'd love to see that happen, but they won't admit fault when 200 million people starve to death. They'll just inevitably find another way of blaming the US. It's tough being the adult in the room.

But not gonna lie, it would be pretty funny to see BRIC shipments and oil systematically stolen/destroyed leading to the collapse of their shitty-ass economies.

>>54489571
>keeping every global shipping lane open for business isn't "solving a problem"
I refuse to give a HUE the time of day.

>>54489532
>The whole world sees the US as a weak state right now, you are clever enough to see that even so most things posted here are either and hyperbole or factually wrong but that does not matter.
Yes indeed, the U.S. is weak, that's why BRICS should be worried. When U.S. grows weak, that means that their people will have to face mass unemployment and Weimar-style hyperinflation that will breach anything of a similar scale in the U.S. Because the U.S. and its currency are the foundation for the brown world. Without it being at its top performance, the BRICS and other third world shitholes are doomed to extinction. That's why China was at its strongest before Xi and before the GFC hit. That's why Russian economy began declining so hard after 2012. That's why India will never get back to 1990s-2000s growth levels. The reason? The U.S. is too weak and its currency is too strong - precisely because of the the diminishing eagerness of U.S. financial system to issue new debt AKA money AKA USD. Why do you think the U.S. federal government is issuing so much debt? Because the rest of the world (some of the BRICS shitholes included) desperately need that, and the private sector won't help them, because demand is falling.

>>54488838
Imagine looking at currency exchange rates when US is the one withdrawing from global trade. Check inflation rates in those countries and come back.

>>54489490
lol Italy with more gold than "we wuz superpowers" Russia and China

>>54489571
Your country is a third world shithole because it's filled with shitty people.

>>54489605
>NOOOO HOW CAN WE TRADE AMONGST EACH OTHER WITHOUT USING AMERICAN DOLLARS
>THE WORLD WILL END IF AMERICA CAN’T PRINT UNLIMITED DOLLARS TO BUY OUR STUFF FOR FREE
I’m just going to keep buying gold and silver because I’m not retarded

>>54489598
>India steals every crude shipment meant for China
>China dams off all of the water to India
>China annexes Siberia and takes the former Soviet states as vassal states
>Brazil just annexes Venezuela for their oil
>Ethiopia dams the Nile and kills millions in Egypt
>Egypt goes to war with Ethiopia and destroys the dam killing millions in Ethiopia
>Japan and Korea put aside old differences to gangfuck China
The world is going to be really wild. Thank fuck for the Pacific and Atlantic at our borders.

>>54489592
what happens when 2 countries disagree with each other? they either go to war or solve the issue peacefully

>>54489599
its not a problem that other countries couldnt solve by themselves

>>54489672
if thats the case why is this board full of threads day in and out talking about our shitty countries? what we're doing shouldnt matter, right? why are you here right now?

>>54489616
>Check inflation rates in those countries and come back.

>>54489681
America holds the majority of the world gold supply on the books and even more off the books. Good luck thirdie.

>>54489721
most living ppl in brazil right now lived through hyperinflation. we know what its like, we know what to expect, we're prepared. are you, first worlder?

>>54489712
>they either go to war or solve the issue peacefully
Why would you solve it peacefully when it's cheaper to just take the oil through privateering? It won't be a ship officially associated with that state. Good luck proving the Indians took the oil.

>>54489745
I lived in Kazakhstan through 1990s and 2000s, I've seen inflation. Not hyper, but what used to get you a meal for a family of four in 1999 would barely get you a chewing gum by 2019. Not that extreme though, fellow turd worlder.

>>54489712
>if thats the case why is this board full of threads day in and out talking about our shitty countries?
Because you've been shilling it non stop. Are you ok?

>>54488838
Idk shit about economics but I always knew since childhood that BRICS was all hype and never gonna be shit purely due to racist beliefs (I was right all along)

>>54489798
Based

>>54489762
i think when in doubt most countries will just blame the us, given your track record of fucking over other countries. so despite your advantageous position in the geographically, eventually youll get invaded, probably through mexico if i had to bet

>>54489862
Please. I'm begging you. Please invade us. Holy fuck I want you to try. What thirdie backwater country are you from? What country do you think could project force across the Pacific to reach us?

>>54489915
i saw a copypasta on /x/ once that predicted this would happen so i think it will, dont ask me the details

>>54489923
>It came to me in a dream
And your backwater shit hole? You've spent all this time talking shit about America. Certainly you're not ashamed to say what country you live in right?

>>54489937
why are you so angry... i already said it in this thread, you can see by my id. relax ameribro, no need to get so upset its just a friendly conversation

>>54489367
resentment doesn't matter. the global opinion of the USA doesn't matter because we don't depend on you people for anything except cheap consumer goods and certain legs of the international complex manufacturing value chain which you would be even more fucked if we withdrew from because almost all European countries are far more trade dependent than the US is.

The US only gets about 10-15% of its GDP from international trade. Average EU country is more than double that. USA doesn't need to import any raw materials, food or energy. The US also has one of the only non-terminal demographies of the developed world and the only one of sufficient size to support a large consumer base for the coming generation. Developed and developing countries will be lining up to take the L to establish trade deals that allow them access to this market.

We already buck broke Japan (again, lol), Korea and Canada. We made relatively nicer deals with Mexico and Colombia because they will be primary replacements for low value added Chinese manufacturing as China's boomers start retiring and dying.

UK is next in line and one of our demands will be them pulling out of Airbus. Future looks bright my friends.

>>54489951
Nobody is upset. I don't feel like skimming the thread. Just say your country. I'm American. What country are you from?

>>54489862
>Probably through Mexico
Do it. Please try. The entire South would be vindicated and gun ownership would skyrocket, we'd see the NFA and ATF abolished within months after watching it unfold and labor would be even cheaper than it ever has been. Invading through the South is the absolute dumbest goddamned idea, it's laughable to even suggest it. Everyone can keeping seething and blaming the US for their problems like a bunch of incels blaming women for why they don't get laid, we really don't care and it makes us more money in the long run.

>>54489956
Your country has 20% niggers and niggerlike people.
Its over, you are just gasping for air. We all know that.

>>54489956
This Anon understands.

>>54489980
What country do you live in. I'm trying to predict how many African migrants you'll be getting when the US stops propping up the third world.

>>54490011
no dude the africans will just sit and starve to death once the boomers all retire and the developed world rugs the only capital they had access to. funnily enough the only large european country with a non-terminal demography is France. Gee, I wonder why.

>>54489964
He's from brazil. Total shithole.

>>54490116
Imagine being that ashamed of your country. Sad actually.

>>54489736
>the American government owns more gold and silver than anyone
sounds reasonable for me to acquire it then

>>54490160
>I want to get dumped on by the US government
Ok

>>54488838
100% correct, the dollar is still collapsing tough, which shows how bad things truly are.

>>54488916
High iq post the problem in my view is that boomers are destroying the demand for dollars.

I mean they literally told paxos to fuck off with their 80 billions bond backed stablecoin before the banking system went down because a few banks could not sell a few billions in bonds.

It's really insane to be honest.

>>54489177
Kek

>>54489173
>Nord Stream was an obvious settlement court move by the Russians to prevent being fined for non-fulfillment of their contract
first time i am reading this theory. so far i assumed it was poland with the help of the britains while brandon keeps both eyes closed. why didn't the "investigations" already point 11 fingers at russia if there's a good case for it?

I don't understand how these things work, do they use the USD because of its stable value that doesn't fluctuate very much given the fact that the US economy seems to be also stable? What does this even mean to the US that there are foreign countries trading with their currency?

>>54491048
Every country operates on debt. I'll give you 10 dollars tomorrow if you let me use your hammer today that I'll use to generate $100 in revenue. I don't have any money right now so you lend it to me on credit. That credit is what money is. The US has a strong record of always paying their debts so their currency doesn't fluctuate wildly. Even now with inflation, compared to the rest of the world the US is still extremely stable.
Other countries want a currency that is stable because imagine the above scenario where the currency is hyperinflated. I borrow your hammer for $10 and by the time I go to pay you back the $10 is worth nothing. You've been rugged. Worse yet is a scenario where the currency is manipulated to deflate. I go to pay you back but now $10 is worth what $100 used to be. It's why the fed is squeezing the money faucet to get back to 2% annualized inflation.

>>54491160
what does debt even mean for a country? I get it in the way it works with people, but for a country it's not the same, what makes a country even pay debt? And the entire thing about credit, what is credit even based on if the value can change? What's the point of borrowing an amount of money today when tomorrow it can be a lot more, how does this benefit a country if they get in debt?

>>54488838
>charts going back 30 years
Yes very relevant data for a change that has only been happening for the past year. Another one of those
>we used to rule the world therefore we will continue to
arguments

>>54491255
All of these questions answer the question of why people use USD. People want to be paid back for the things they sell. If a country buys steel it's generally to be used for projects that might not be completed and generate revenue for a decade. They need to buy it on credit/debt. The person selling wants to be paid back but they don't want that debt to inflate away into something worthless. Queue the stable dollar. Countries around the world trying to trade with one another use the dollar because the value is relatively stable so long term they can expect that their debt will be serviced at a fair value.

>>54490982
>first time i am reading this theory.
yeah, because you don't speak Russian (I do). Mikhail Krutikhin was talking about this since the explosions started. If you don't know whom I'm talking about then obviously you never invested in oil.

>>54489862
Lmao this wins dumbest post of the year so far. Please educate yourself on the geography of North America and how the US has some of the best natural borders in the world.

>>54491255
>what makes a country even pay debt?
the risk of becoming Argentina. The only reason Argentina's debt is still investible is because they offer an insane yield that you can live off for a couple of years until the next default. It's a speculator's market, not investment market.
>how does this benefit a country if they get in debt?
Same way it benefits a business. Debt is not a bad thing, it's blood and nutrients of a state apparatus. They have to borrow on the promise to repay because they can't survive on taxation alone. They invest debt into infrastructure that allows private enterprise to build factories, mines and oil rigs. The businesses borrow local fiat and pay salary to the employees in local funnymoney while getting revenues exporting goods, ore or oil barrels. The government levies its share from those export proceedings, and uses the revenue to pay back the debt. Governments thrive on debt only. This is as old as the Ancient Greeks or Ancient China. In Acient China they didn't have enough metal to finance state apparatus quite frequently, and until the iron standard copper was in constant shortage, making the Empire dependent on the Korean ore mines. Copper shortages led to raids against villages and towns where locals were suspected to hoard copper. Same thing often happens in some BRICS countries, with governments in Russia and China implementing Draconian measures to de-dollarize local populace at the cost of their personal wealth. They want to take those dollars to themselves because it will pay off that debt, and serve as a forex reserves cushion.

tl;dr - countries can't survive without debt. it's a fact. those who don't raise debt are not humanly habitable.

>>54489029
The US will be pretty comfy once the white men with bibles and guns clean it back up.

>>54488838
>Every single of the so-called "BRICS" countries is a failed state that is dependent on the U.S. dollars

yeah they totally need dollars, not oil or goods or metals or fertiliser or anything. dollars, that's it.

>>54491770
Traded in what?
Retard

>>54491710
>he doesn’t know china already has troops in Canada and South America

>>54491728
The Bible literally says Christian’s will have to go through tribulation, retard, and many will be killed.

>>54491770
>yeah they totally need dollars, not oil or goods or metals or fertiliser or anything. dollars, that's it.
yes. Russia has all the oil it needs. Because of the lack of reinvestment (in USD) into its oil production and lack of equipment maintenance by servicing companies (all US-based) their oil production has diminished. The budget is held afloat due to higher than usual oil prices and ruble debasement. Metals and wood are being exported (or were, until very recently). And fertilizer? They don't even produce it - the best ground used for grazing in the north is polluted with Strontium isotopes, and south-center part of the country is losing farmer population. Fertilizer used to be imported. Guess what they paid for it? USD.

>>54491954
Please. Do it faggot. We're waiting. Please invade. I'm begging you.

>>54491940
The dollar hasn't always existed you know ? Countries were trading goods before that. If the dollar ceases to be relevant something else will replace it. Its all about agreement between countries.

>>54491770
oh and one more thing. You can have all the natural goods in the world. It changes nothing. "Means of production" is a retarded Marxist paradigm, as it doesn't add value. Quite the contrary. Abundance in resources create a natural contraction push to the economic activity. So, if you have plenty of cheap oil, you will see oil producers go bankrupt because they cannot fulfill their debt obligations. In normal days, this is countered by the currency exchange rate between local currency and the USD. But without USD they are stuck producing for the local market which makes it unsustainable. Similar story exists in Central Asian republics, e.g. Kazakhstan, where more local produce is being exported for international USD-priced value and the exchange rate is used to keep local manufacturers afloat. The demand is not high enough among locals, and the real wealth value (i.e. USD-measured purchasing power) is too low to sustain large scale operations. TL;DR if you only work for the local economy (like North Korea) you go bankrupt. USD is your only hope.

>>54492060
>Implying countries can't export without using USD
That's a strange cope. The BRICS have announced that they're working on their own currency to avoid that problem.

Bank run in Russia happening right now
Russia is insolvent

>https://twitter.com/bneeditor

>>54492021
>Countries were trading goods before that
yes, normally it was in some sort of a metallic medium. Gold standard existed for millennia and was only de-jure suspended permanently five decades ago.
In Ethiopia and Yemen, up until the post-WWII period, locals traded in silver coins that were minted by the Austrian Habsburgs. The key difference, however, is that the world was not so leveraged before as it is now. There is too much USD debt for dollar to die overnight.
>If the dollar ceases to be relevant something else will replace it
Totally, but until that happens all the USD debt outside the US domestic market will have to disappear. Good luck waiting for that to happen.
>Its all about agreement between countries.
and the countries largely agreed to trade in USD. Now, there are other good currencies that are freely convertible with USD - AUD, CHF, NZD, JPY, CAD, GBP. But for the last 50 years they have become appendages of the Eurodollar (or offshore dollar) system, and it is no better for - say - China to trade with Myanmar or Brazil using AUD or USD. In the end, they are dependent on the credit creation of a third country. If by some weird set of events these countries agree not to use USD, it only means that the USD became so inaccessible that they'd rather save whatever they have to pay off dollarized debt than use it to trade goods. But that remains a hypothetical.

>>54491723
Debt makes the country develop in a way which allows for them to actually pay the debt then? Are the very reason countries get in debt due to the fact that they want to use that money for things which could make money in the future that they don't have at the time? It seems like every country has some form of debt, but in the case of the US, then what does it mean exactly and how does it affect the country? Who are they even indebted to? Themselves?

>>54492096
>That's a strange cope. The BRICS have announced that they're working on their own currency to avoid that problem.
https://archive.is/AZjsQ
this is 2010, same rhetoric, no results
https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/470961468041977091/pdf/WPS5147.pdf
this is December 2009. same rhetoric, no results
https://archive.is/5HMqE
This is July 2009, same rhetoric, no results
https://archive.is/N602u
this is 2015 and you probably don't even remember the name of the ranjeet mentioned here.

It's been 14 years and all we've seen is that these countries became poorer and more retarded since. Don't embarass yourself.

>>54492222
>Debt makes the country develop in a way which allows for them to actually pay the debt then?
correct, and also increase economic activity, collect taxes to fill politicians' pockets with, etc.
> Are the very reason countries get in debt due to the fact that they want to use that money for things which could make money in the future that they don't have at the time?
yes, but in shithole countries (BRICS being the top of the iceberg) plenty of fraud is involved too, e.g. larceny.
>It seems like every country has some form of debt, but in the case of the US, then what does it mean exactly and how does it affect the country?
That's a big question with many possible answers. U.S. Federal government has the capacity to raise debt forcing the banking institutions to buy their trasuries. The Fed can issue reserves to purchase this debt. The U.S. federal government is obliged to pay debt and they will do that using all means available to them, including punitive taxation.
>Who are they even indebted to? Themselves?
Technically, no. The U.S. government is in debt to the holders of that debt. Anyone from the Fed to the Chinese government. Just like mortgages, treasurys can be bought and sold until they mature.

>>54492021
Global trade is too expensive. People moved away from gold for that reason.

>>54489411
half of those arent even choke points as you can sail around them, another good portion are within friendly control or irrelevant
so you are left with panama and the middle east, the usa is the only one to dictate any embargo on panama and the middle east is only valuable because they ship out oil
the us occupational forces in the middle east are arguably of greater concern to the global trade network than control of the those choke points
and the usa is already out of the region and only the zeihanist predicted blood for the blood god that would follow the region is peacefully integrating itself
just recently syria was welcomed back in after they all said fuck off burger

>>54492231
>Thirdies hold hands for 14 years and America is supposed to be scared

>>54492324
Based dedicated OP with quality posting. I'm not sure who loaded up the BRICS fud but I'm not intimidated out of holding my cash stack from the fucking Renmibi.

>>54492324
>U.S. Federal government has the capacity to raise debt forcing the banking institutions to buy their trasuries. The Fed can issue reserves to purchase this debt. The U.S. federal government is obliged to pay debt and they will do that using all means available to them, including punitive taxation.
I'm not sure I understand the relation between banks and the government's ability to raise debt. It seems like to me there wouldn't really be a motive towards raising debt other than maybe there being a form of benefit to the government in some way by working with the banks to make them want to buy something from the government. What I don't understand is why the government even would want for the banks to buy something from them, what's the cycle here and who benefits? Are the banks the ones who pay the debt and need money which the government is able to provide so they can do that? This is all very confusing to me.
I somewhat understand that the fed are separate from something like the government so they aren't technically related to eachother and operate independently, but the part about the Chinese government and their debt also confuses me.

>>54489956

P-P-Peter

EU countries mostly trade with each other, which is one of the points of having it in the first place. External trade is the same 10-15% of GDP as US. And trade as percent of global GDP has been very slowly falling for 15 years now.

>>54488838
OY VEY! the kikes that fucked america over will definitely fuck the poo's over that are attempting to not be under the boot of the American military presence

>>54492837
>Muh juice conspiracy
So you think you're going to escape Jewish fractional reserve banking schemes with a newer fractional reserve banking scheme headed by the Chinese? The biggest Jews on the planet?

>>54491954
>Canada
Lmao would love to see an invasion thru Canada
>South America
How do they get past the Darien Gap?

>>54493334
how are the peaceful resettlers crossing it now?

>>54493334
None of these clowns ever consider the absolutely godly hand America was dealt geographically. Massive oceans to our east and west, desert to the south, narrow choke points even further south, arctic wasteland to our north, deep rivers running north and south, huge mountain ranges on both the east and west.
Please try to invade us. We've been waiting for this.

>>54493419
Trekking slowly through mud on foot is not the same as moving a military operation across it. Russia shares a land border with Ukraine and still struggles to project force properly because Ukraine is muddy bullshit.

>>54493419
They risk their lives to walk through one of the densest, wettest and most dangerous jungles on earth. Did you know Panama used to be part of Gran Columbia? Panama then revolted. Why do you think Columbia never bothered to intervene? Or, now with modern military equipment just take back their rightful clay?

>>54493451
>>54493484
and yet the current stream of women and children unsupported by any government level logistical operation is doing more damage to the usa than any standing army ever even hoped to do
really makes you think doesnt it

>>54493424
It’s unbelievable, here we are talking complicated economics. how am I supposed to believe anyone’s arguements when they don’t even know basic geophraphy. And everyone loves to shit on Americans for not being able to point out Ukraine on a map. Laughable.

>>54493536
>Damage
Maybe if you're a retard that insists on living in LA. Are you changing the subject because you realize an actual military invasion of America is impossible?

>>54492099
Lel and so it begins

>>54493565
no i am saying there has been an invasion ongoing for ages, doesnt need to be uniformed soldiers to be effective
and you are the retard if you think this problem doesnt impact you are is about to

>>54493536
Doesn’t that just prove America is still and will forever be on top? People are desperate to come here for a new start. No one cares about their own shit hole country. No one cares about immigrating to your shit hole country.
>inb4 w-well I don’t want them.
Good luck with your shit demographics and shit currency.

>>54489956
>The US also has one of the only non-terminal demographies of the developed world
kek there is no USA, its just an economic zone, getting packed with millions of shitskins a year which is causing a massive loss of social goods. Americans(whites)
are in terminal decline and this lgbtbbq social contagion will cause 1/3 of young people to be infertile in practice.

>>54493620
how did that work out for rome

>>54493608
It's not an invasion if the ruling class actively invites them in. Seems you're definitely wanting to change the subject. We went from "lol America will be invaded by a foreign power" to "lol America is turning brown". Fair point if that's what you want to talk about. Side note. We intercept most of the people crossing the border, document that they exist, make sure they're not carrying anything crazy, then send them on their way. Not something I agree with but if you think people are going to smuggle a tank across the border think again.

>>54493748
Considering people still talk about Rome and Latin underpins every academic field? Probably pretty well. 2000 years later America will still live rent free in the mind of a thirdie.

That's exactly the point, they are going to end this dependency, dumbass

>>54489101
> banned its citizens from converting rubles to USD or EUR?

Get a load of this doofus.

>>54489768
>I lived in Kazakhstan
based

>>54489490
>only 8,133 public reserves
hold my curry, benchod

>>54495247
those are "gold reserves" in the sense that it's golden jewellery Vikram bought for his daughter Jyoti's wedding. That only counts if the Indian government can send troops to loot its own population en masse.
>>54494239
In 2022 Russian authorities implemented a 30% commission fee on all bank forex purchases and could only sell for rubles at the Central Bank rate. Black market rates far exceeded the official rates and for a year Russians' only relatively easy access to USD was via the USDT. Why would the Bank of Russia do this, if it was confident in their currency's strength?

>>54494077
>That's exactly the point, they are going to end this dependency, dumbass
how? The USD has been gaining in value against nearly all other fiat currencies which means the demand is up. Once the dollar collapses in value and becomes easily accessible to the world economy to pay off much of the dollarized debt (including IMF loans - yes, South Africa is a part of BRICS), and outsourcing industry in India starts charging their big tech U.S. customers in rupees, that doesn't seem likely.
Also see the following:
>>54492231
If they've been at it for 14 years, why they just turned 360 deg and said exactly the same thing they said when BRICS was only BRIC? What were they doing in the last 14 years that's gonna be different from now?