/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>54339902
>muh forecast

>>54339902
> haha salaries go to 0

>>54339902
I'm a plumber

>AI will do all the programming guys trust me

>>54339902
damn is it really legal to pay me 10 cents a year?

>>54339919
>>54340890
>>54340978
>>54341008
It's useless to warn them /biz/ never listens until it's too late

>>54341008
you? yes. that should be about 100 rupees which is a perfectly fine salary in your country.

>>54341028
1) if the AI becomes irreplaceable, then the man who can make his own AI becomes the master craftsman
2) the software niggers will become AI niggers
3) therefore they will be the master
All it actually does is make people without basic knowledge of anything tech related even more non-competitive. In the future every tradie will have to at least know how toolbox 9000 works or else be unable to do their heating and air conditioning job.

>>54341076
midwit techworker cope have fun competing with 10000 equally qualified laid off workers to be the 1 ai maintainer it's definitely going to be you!

AI is the next great equalizer just like the gun was. Now it's just about ideas versus having the ability to actually be able to follow through with it.

Everybody will be able to pursue every single one of their ideas now with way less capital used.

Still going to need coders to actually understand things but the reliance upon them for every single thing ever will be gone in a few years.

>>54339902

i'm in data science so i'm very safe. normtards will always need the "data guy" to explain what the computer is saying to them, even if the analysis itself is taken over by AI.

>>54343297
so let me get this straight:
>normies are building their own computers
>some random dude already created his own ISP
>gentooman library: *exists*
>AI consolidating a jeet purge
and you think your job is really safe? only the top %10 will have a human element to these jobs like secret service personnel compared to a mall cop, and colleges all around the country will begin tearing down their tech-hub spaces the way they've been demolishing libraries. honestly, a computer is just a calculator, nothing more. and you're a human, anon. go be something better than a WFH drone. i believe in you god damn it!

>Someone comes out with Google, except it tries to find the best answer for you
>fucktards think this is going to replace the software engineer

Self-coding AI would, by definition, be able to grow its own brain at an exponential rate and make ALL jobs that don't involve physical labor obsolete. SWEs aren't paid to write little code snippets on demand, they're paid to synthesize everything, understand the entire stack and business context, debug bullshit, maintain things.

Little code tidbits are not valuable at all, Poonjeet can already do that for $1/hour, they tried and failed with that scheme like 20 years ago.

>>54344681
noooooooo but communist and nazi incel underage losers in their mommy’s basement with no life experience told me it’s happening

>mfw irreplaceable social worker

>>54341118
Not how it works, retard.

what’s with all these copeing neetoid who spend literally all day sperging about programmers and trannys lol

>>54340978
>turns out 90% of programming was unneeded

>>54344844
they absolutely won't let each of you techfags work your own AI, they will cut costs to appease shareholders.

>>54345198

There are a lot, A LOT of failed CS rejects. It naturally appeals to the basement dweller/NEET type of guy and yet they don't have the will to see it through to completion and then they're just bitter seeing us wave around our high salaries and wfh gigs.

>>54344627
>>54344681
the point is most of the tech sector was fueled by easy VC money getting gambled on everything and anything, and people are still flocking to software en masse. Complete normies signing up for bootcamps and getting upper echelon salaries working from home for companies that will never turn a profit. Every teenager wants to be an influencer or coder while simultaneously knowing less about computers than ever. Startups getting $300m in funding to reinvent tinder for dogs then handing out six figure salaries to women to run their twitter accounts and decide which computer nerds have the most ethnic sounding name.
The writing has been on the wall for a long time and ai will just be the scapegoat. And I'm not even salty. I work at a household name company, working with distinguished phd scientist women who went to ivy leagues. And they get paid less than my friend who got an art degree from a state school and did a js bootcamp

>>54345434

>distinguished phd scientist women who went to ivy leagues

and are apparently too stupid to independently understand that value isn't an arbitrary thing stapled to a title. Why are you shocked that software engineering is one of the biggest gainers in salary in an era when everything, and I mean literally EVERYTHING is becoming virtualized? You mentioned some meme startups and failed to note all of the massive tech corpos that now handle most of daily life and entertainment.

>>54340978
Yes, or at least enough to invalidate 95% of “programmers”.

>>54344844
It absolutely is how it works. Do you think all those “computers” (the job title in the 50s & 60s, not the device) had jobs when calculators/computers (the devices) became mainstream? They got their asses canned. Human not needed.

>>54345510
>understand that value isn't an arbitrary thing stapled to a title
Exactly why the bubble is so bad. They label anything as SWE then think some completely noob playing around on react is worth $140k a year. But if you work for big pharma, as one of the most important employees that directly leads to increased revenue, for one of the most profitable & important businesses in the country, you get paid less lmao. The entire realm is fueled by speculation and free money. And I'm not just talking about meme startups, most of the "big tech corpos" too. Uber, snapchat, netflix, facebook, they're all running at 110% capacity trying to snuff out competition instead of actually create a sustainable business model. Even the most reasonable companies with real profit like Amazon are laying off tens of thousands of tech employees

>>54345642

There are 4.4 million software developing jobs in the US, 100,000 layoffs from some of the biggest companies combined barely puts a dent in the overall market picture.

>>54341118
>>54339902
back to work tradecucks! Those toxic fumes aren't going to inhale themselves!

>>54339902
>>54344844
>>54345434
>>54345592
>>54345642
So what are future SWEs supposed to do about this then? Im a uni student about to graduate in 1 year into a terrible job market with experienced laid off workers and AI being my competition. I have 2 years experience as an intern as a full stack dev but thats it.

What does a nigga gotta do these days to make it in these tough times?

>>54339902
What about hardware? If I want to but the same tier laptop today as 5 years ago I have to pay +50% more

>>54345434

You are right that everything is defined as SWE when it really isn't. An increasing number of jobs is simply using code to interface with some design, visualization, or analysis tool.
The retards thinking that AI will replace this interfacing function don't understand that there's a knowledge intensive process unrelated to SWEing.
Take a website redesign for instance using the latest meme language.
It's clearly not worth 140k a year but at the same time you will always need a human to do it, and that human will have to know whatever language the page is written in, but he doesn't have to be SWE.

The problems caused by this kind of market in the software industry go deeper.
Biggest problem I see is the complete destruction of tech oriented communities either by trannoids infecting them with identity politics and/or absolute retards joining. 10, 20, 30 years ago there were very active tech communities that brought great value to the industry. Today they are non existent, at least not in the West.


Also:
>phd
>scientist
>women
lmao

AI engineer here. If you guys think AI will replace coding jobs you are retarded

>>54345765
>with experienced laid off workers
They are not experienced anon. They are fake it till you make it people with a 3 month bootcamp calling themselves programmers, propped up by a market flooded with low interest money.
Supposing that you were half awake during your classes you should be able to get a job and become a SWE.

>>54345872
Software dev here
Can you please fast forward the AI programmer replacement for me?

I want to stop waging and make my own game with the help of coder bots

>>54345872
>AI engineer here
what company do you work for

>>54340978

this but unironically

I suck a coding but I have good ideas and already used chatgpt to do a bunch of really useful shit

it’s unironically over for codecels

>>54344681
/thread
Codechads are safe or the singularity happens, there’s no in between. If you feel threatened by an AI then you're doing jeet-tier “work” that won't be missed

Stack Overflow already has everything you could possibly ever need as an SWE. The answers are all there. The complexity in being an SWE isn't in answering a question, it's knowing the right question to ask. Many questions, actually, every day. AI doesn't question, it just answers, and it's a "best guess" not guaranteed solution. We won't have real AI until we create something that can actually question and reason.

>>54339902
there is a lot of free software (as in FOSS, but also as in beer) big companies use a lot of that, yet their costs don't fall. why? because they need devs...

>>54344681
>>54348372
>>54348385

except chatgpt can already understand context and leverage basically all coding knowledge far better than any human

Rest in Piss codecels

>>54339902
Any of you use HARU ? is it good ?

>>54348444
Let me know when any company anywhere fires their dev team and replaces it with a fucking chatbot lmao. It’s not happening unless we legitimately have the singularity happen and AI becomes our new gods

>>54339902
learn to mop codemonkeys

>>54348444

No it can't

>>54339902
>Source: I made some lines

I thought that this chatgpt replacing SWE's is only fud, but there are so many of these coping faggots that I'm actually starting to believe that. If it's not true, why so many people bother to even reply? Makes you think.

>>54348500
This. And in the case of a singularity, we'd have a lot to worry about than some basement dwellers losing their code jobs. It's like watching a volcano erupt and wonder what will be of the poor little ants working nearby.

>>54348444
>>54348500
>>54348505
>>54348892

The point is you no longer need some uber 1337 autist who spent the last 10 years learning Schnugle and Cumfist Rails 420, you no longer need a team, you just need to know how to come up with good questions and chatgpt will break all your complex tasks into bitsized easy to follow instructions. I can tell you are coping because you feel threatened by this already. Just wait until the tech improves, the AI really will be able to do full stack development on its own.

>>54349287
>you just need to know how to come up with good questions
This is already what high level SWE’s do. Like I said before, you should only feel threatened by an overhyped stack overflow searcher if all your job entails is copying random code snippets you found online

>>54349287

>you just need to know how to come up with good questions

That is the essence of being a human being, as I just said, the one major barrier preventing "AI" (because it's really just an emulation of true AI) from being truly sentient and near-human. It doesn't download the greater operation context, reason, question, and answer, it just answers, and you have to structure your question rigidly and accurately in order to get a good one. That wouldn't replace the most bottom-barrel software developer job out there.

I'm not threatened at all, I'm annoyed by these constant threads on here and blatant ignorance of what a SWE actually does.

>>54349287
>you just need to know how to come up with good questions and chatgpt will break all your complex tasks into bitsized easy to follow instructions.
ever heard of 'Test Driven Development'?
same concept without chatgpt.
TDD makes software development trivial.
However, very few people can be bothered to practice it.
and engineer salaries going down?
they probably want to get them in-line with europoors, where it's just like 10k higher then the average business degree.
but it's gonna be a challenge.
zoomers are setting new lows for college enrollment.
and the zoomers that graduated don't get the same exposure and professional development millennials had because it's mostly WFH jobs.
we're also pretty xenophobic at the moment with WW3 and everything, so we're not likely to try ease that demand with foreigners.

>>54349360
>>54349372

The question of sentience is irrelevant.

> It doesn't download the greater operation context, reason, question, and answer, it just answers, and you have to structure your question rigidly and accurately in order to get a good one

no you don’t, chatgpt is amazingly good at understanding context and it’s ability to quickly reference basically all human knowledge makes it vastly superior to a human dev. Have you even fucking used chatgpt?

>>54349496
Have you ever written anything more complicated than fizzbuzz or a discord bot?

Lads, just buy a few $200k condos and live off the rent.
You can automate anything except land.
Holy shit I don’t miss working in tech

>>54349360
>>54349372
>>54349400

i’m going to give you a real world example:

last night, I asked chatgpt how I could use it to analyze 4chan threads for sentiment analysis. It not only told me how to do it, but gave me the code and step by step instructions to achieve this. Each step was then broken down into substeps when I ran into problems. I ran into a bunch of errors like needing to download github, change my code, I had to learn how to run cmd line, errors with command line etc… it fucking told me how to do everything and a task that would have taken me 2 weeks on headbanging on Google and Substack took me fucking 15 minutes WITH NO PRIOR KNOWLEDGE. Also, there is no reason preventing me from asking it to do something more complicated. The script jeet who I would have had to pay to write the sentiment analyzer python script is 100% out of a job already, and I predict in the next 12 months senior software engineers will be unemployed. The writing is on the wall, faggot. This was on chatgpt 3.5 too, not even the latest version.

>>54349496

Ok, so have it do a developer job. Ask it to come up with a web app that aggregates the cost to drive to a given geographic location, given some input such as car mpg. See what it does on its own, you can't help it any further than that or else you're developing it yourself.

Did it pick a good front end framework, base server side language, set up the database, connect all the wiring, code it in a clean readable/maintainable manner, figure out a comprehensive unit test suite, then deploy and release it? Or did you ask it something fucking stupid like "how do I find the smallest element in a list?"

>>54349552

you do realize it can scale, right? it will break any complex task into manageable chunks, no need to memorize a bunch of gay shit when it effortlessly collects and synthesized all useful information for you.

>>54349601

Oh so it gave you a user guide, but you still had to do all the development and debugging yourself. Are you fucking retarded?

>>54349601
i’m going to give you a real world example:
it told me to use a library that didn't exist.

Codecels have 5 years max in the industry. Get into AI or sink. I'm a prooompter engineer, the vast of people have been asking stupid things and getting shit results. If you know how to use AI, most jobs are dead.

>>54349634

I didn’t write a line of code and Indidnt have to do shit, you disingenuous fag, stop moving goal posts

>>54349664

literally just be >110 IQ and you can do jobs of 200 IQ autist with photographic memory and much faster too with chatgpt

>>54345765
Just work for the government. They’re in dire need of people because their tech n is so behind the times, but that also means no AI bullshit. Wages can’t compare with the corporate world obviously, but you also don’t need to move to some super expensive coastal shithole either.

>>54349675

Oh shit, you're right anon. My work here is done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’m no genius. I’m not even a good programmer. I’ve been working as a contractor/consultant doing odd job software dev for a management consulting firm in the healthcare space. I can’t speak for anyone else, but guys like me are soon to be extinct. If AI doesn’t replace us, we’ll be replace by a warehouse of Indian guys all using gpt for cheaper.

>>54349748

absolutely seething, stay mad codecel, I take immense joy from seeing you faggots get btfo, techies are fucking scum and watching you get castrated by your own invention is fucking chefs kiss poetic justice, all those hours you spent grinding leet code just to be unemployed subhuman, kek at your life

>ummm actually AI can't do it right now so it will never be able to do it
Absolutely hilarious watching programmers not understand tech. Yes anon you won't be replaced, and also AI will never learn to draw hands, it's impossible for him. Trust the plan.

>>54349789
>intentional reddit spacing in every post
>super emotional wording and obsessively angry for no reason
Can’t you fags spot obvious bait anymore?

>>54349748
Just a thought, but sentiment analysis on /biz/ would be best served not just by current sentiment, but also historical sentiment, as well as the changes in overall activity.

Community sentiment is not just what people are saying, but also what they're not saying, what they've stopped or started saying, and how many people are doing the "saying".

>>54349789
what's your profession?
you sound pretty salty about techies.
did you try being a bootcamp dev but failed?

AI is just going to replace the fun parts of being a coder for money, I know my future work is just being an AI code janny to validate the AI code fit the requirements that some business person asks for

Instead of writing it, you just need a braindead person to confirm that it doesn't break anything. IMO this will cut programming jobs by like 90% in the next 10-20 years. but i don't really know what will happen, it could be 99% demand reduction, it could be 50%. but it's definitely not 0%

>>54339902
Sar I will be overseeing all the AIs now, your services are no longer needed thank you com again.

Look at me in the eyes when I talk to you.
You will discuss sports or any SFW related interested that is NOT Vidya, Funko pops, anime.
You will dress professionally.
It's simple as that. Go attend a toastmasters, learn how to socialize, stop being a sperg.
T. Biz analyst (aka translator between tech and biz people).

>>54350085
your job is made up and useless.

>>54349990
I could see the industry shifting towards devs just do 'maintenance' & bug-fixes.
but that is already the majority of jobs anyways.
so I guess it's kind of a case in point, you have a few good engineers that puke code and everyone else just kind of fucks around and takes their time fixing the code vomit dev's bugs.
so I'd think instead probably a small subset of the industry would be replaced by AI.
which then those people would either take a demotion and bug fix or just change industries entirely.
>cut programming jobs by like 90%
naw, more like 5%, but almost guarantee you, that type of fluctuation would be offset by zoomers forgoing college.

>>54350176
You're ignoring the amount of soi dev "programmers" in web dev. Tee hee I coded a landing page in React.JS. That's more than 5%

>>54350085
>Go attend a toastmasters
No...
there's no way you're unironically promoting that sperg-fest?
I had a friend who was big on toast masters, she hosted a party at her house and invited them.
A forty-five year old white dude came up to my wife and asked, "so how do I meet an asian woman?"
and I said, "Have you tried the anime club?"
he got super assblasted and left the party immediately.
he couldn't even bring himself to say anything.
just frowned and left.
no, toast masters is for faggot spergs.

>more tech
>less tech salary
SK stands for stupid kigger

>>54350266
I mean, yea, I am totally ignoring them.
web devs have always had dogshit job security.