/biz/ - Business & Finance

How do I make money from the billboard ponzi?

I know a guy who builds these. There's decent money in it but a lot of permitting and it takes time.

>>54265783

I’m glad you asked

Basically what you do is look for fixer upper signs in your community. They’re cheap and easy to fix. Cut all the trees around them to open up the view. Then literally just start calling businesses down the road from the sign. The most lucrative kind of billboard are the ones that say like “Arbys next exit”

You can build your own too

$5,000 for a wood structure
>might only make $5k a year
$25-$50,000 for a steel monopole
>might only make $25k a year
$500,000+ for a digital
>will generate $300k+ per year

And that’s only with you being the sign operator

You can also trade in easements or be a broker selling signs to others

>>54265869

How to start out

Determine your budget

>richfags on /biz/
>call it $100,000

With this amount you can do several things. You can buy small existing signs in the 12x25 size area. Maybe you’d be able to get 2-3. Might be able to get a 14x48 in a smaller market. Or you can build your own signs. Going to ignore the last bit for now since it’s a real hassle and dependent on where you live could be next to impossible

From here just start making money selling the advertising. Advertising pays for itself and smart people know this so you’ll be able to sell it. Look up the rates that national operators are charging in the area and set your ask price in this range.

Keep making money to buy more signs

Once you have 10 or so you’re looking at being able to quit your job if you have one. And what’s more, now you have negotiating power with the local authorities

>>54265901
Owning more than just a handful of signs means you now have “inventory”

And as the city planning zeitgeist is “anti-sign”, municipalities have an interest in reducing the overall number of signs.

Here you can negotiate. Offer to remove 3 signs in exchange for a digital permit. Either way you do it, upgrade your inventory. Bigger signs always make more money. Digital boards are ridiculously easy to operate and can make upwards of a million bucks a year in some markets.

>>54265770
Will try and keep the thread up all day. Had good response last night. If anons tell me their budget and region of the US they are interested in I will provide the same consulting I do for $500/hour at my “job”

>>54265770
I remember /biz/ before crypto too anon

>>54266033
Are you saying you make 500/hr in consultation fees for telling people how to operate a billboard franchise? I have 20k and my folks live near Savannah GA where I know for a fact there’s dozens of signs not in use

>>54265770
>>54265869
>>54265901
>>54265926
>>54266033
You’re pretty based, anon
Wish /biz/ was more like this
I’ve got no capital to spare because I got divorce raped but maybe in a couple years I can give it a shot

>>54266186
$500 an hour is my posted consulting fee that covers research, rate analysis, and time spent with you just basically picking my brain. I also charge a success fee based on completing negotiations successfully. I’m actually right down 95 from you. Savannah is an interesting market. Old south. Would be cool to improve a surface street sign there with latticing/framework/etc. People in my business usually overlook the aesthetic aspects of signs. In my builds/renos I try to give the signs elements that would suggest a sense of belonging in their environment. Attractiveness is the key. Not hard to do in a country built on planned obsolescence.

Do you think this would work in Eastern Europe? There's basically no regulations or municipal restrictions but the advertising bugets are a lot smaller.(frankly bugets overall)

>>54265770
This is a good thread. I like this thread and I also like you billboard anon.
I don't have any interest in billboards but bumping for quality

What is business like in the Northern Midwest region? Billboards are only really around cities and high traffic interstates
SD ND MN

>>54265869
>>54265901
>>54265926
>>54266033
Quality bump

>>54266033
Okay OP I'll bite since after driving to work today it made me think about it now.

I moved to Pittsburgh a few years ago for a job and this place has noticeably less billboards than other major cities, but I'm already steps ahead in that I'm thinking it's because of the difficult terrain. Most of the highways and major roadways are situated along rock walls, cliffsides and valleys. Certain "open" areas will have a massive wall of billboards shooting up into the sky, but other places (with VERY heavy traffic mind you) will be completely advertisement barren.

Since you mentioned local jurisdictions are typically anti billboards, how would one expand into a market like Pittsburgh when the available billboards market is rather competitive and the option to build your own is stifled by wacky terrain issues around roadways? Are there extra steps you could take to maybe, get a billboard over the highway on a bridge? Is that allowed? Or how would one negotiate the side of a cliff for advertisement purposes? I guess you would hope that the cliff is privately owned and not owned by the city or something.

>>54266377
If rural area look for signs on the very fringe of a metro area. Someplace where they’re building homes, is Williston still a boomtown? Home builders, the people who have the “shitholes starting in the low 400s!” signs pay top dollar.

>>54265770
It's too difficult to put up a new billboard because its almost impossible to get the land zoned for one

>>54266617
Used my xfinity Wi-Fi for a quick bump and forgot to switch back apologies for samefagging

>>54266315
I think it would. Make up a business like a restaurant or something and call the billboard owners by you and ask how much for a month. If it’s like the US it will be for a “four week period” which as far as I can tell is just a sneaky way of getting 13 months into a year.

Interesting thought though and I had assumed there would be lax regulations in Eastern Europe. All the war footage I see out of Ukraine there are tons of signs in the background.

>>54266312
That whole stretch of highway sav—->Macon and Valdosta——>atl has so many boards in disrepair. Do you do your own maintenance or employ contractors?

>>54265869
>I’m glad you asked
I asked as a joke, but was pleasantly surprised to get some actual good advice.

>>54266617
The more I think about it the Dakotas make this idea very attractive. what website/county records or whatever do you use to find owners of existing billboards? It’s a lot of windshield time to scout out places like Aberdeen or Minot

>>54266694
Thanls, I'll give it a wirl.
Euro capital center of town uni has a gigantic billboard for a sports bets company kinda lax. XD

>>54266586
Good questions, and you’re right about the terrain being a challenge in PA. Off the top of my head isn’t there a little town right across from the downtown where it’s up on a cliff, there’s a little ski lift or something? Maybe some rooftop signage up there? Should be far away enough from the roadway to not be regulated by DOT- the same organization that will prohibit you from advertising on bridges or over any DOT regulated right of way.

Post pics of the cliffs you’re talking about where there is/isn’t signage. Could be one is in a right of way and one isn’t.

What I would do if you’re serious about it is just write up a plan, have a good 30 second speech about what you want to accomplish, and go talk to your city/county’s “signs examiner”. And just have a conversation. Worst case you learn something. They’ll give you some ideas, but you’ll have to read between the lines. At the end of the day unfortunately your relationship with the city will be contentious, owing mostly to the fact the boomers who run the industry now pay no mind to city planning/aesthetic concerns. Differentiate yourself by being a guy that develops beautiful signage. It’s possible.

>>54266932
I’m wondering, depending on where in Eastern Europe you are, whether there might be an organized crime element involved with billboards? The shittier ones anyway. Given the subjective “value” of advertising billboards can be terrific opportunities for money laundering. Apologies if this is offensive to you, but I am thinking of a very specific place over there that I can very easily see this happening lol

>>54265770
How much can you make if you put this on a billboard?

>>54267114
I as the sign owner would make top rate as you cannot give discounts for political advertising.

Would probably come out even after getting fined for having a moving message though

>>54267016
No offence taken, pretty much any and every industry here has either political or criminal ties in one form or another,(same thing am I right hahaa[shoot me])

>>54267207
Where I’m at in the US organized crime is exclusively governmental. The next tier down is mindless drug fueled niggardry

>>54265770
The physical sign structure and relationship flow chart

Typically, the sign operator owns the physical asset. The asset is secured by a ground lease with a property owner. The operator deals with the advertisers and the landlord, who never have any contact with each other.

In terms of lease payments, try to avoid any revenue sharing agreement if you can or keep it under 20%. That said, rev share arrangements are common in the 25-30% area.

nice post op thanks

>>54267339
Selling out

After acquiring and fixing up the board you might want to flip it, same way home Reno people flip houses.

You want to have a solid revenue history before you decide to sell your signs. The multiple you’ll get will be between 5-7x gross revenues.

Realistic scenario would be you acquire an billboard from an old guy that built the sign 40 years ago. The guy owns shopping centers and other much more lucrative assets than the sign so it’s been neglected. You get it for essentially the price of the steel and then some. Call it $20,000. You clear the vegetation. You paint it. That’s $5,000. Then you start leasing it out to advertisers for the sake of realistic round numbers call it $1,000 per side per month. That’s $2,000 times 13 four week periods or $26,000 per year. With these revenues you’re looking at a sale price in the $100-$150k area. Not bad huh!

>>54267529
Sorry, $130-$180k area

So much for round numbers

>>54267529
What kind of licenses do I need for this?

Is it easier to buy old signs and renovate them or find property with good sign location and build one from ground up.

>>54267935
No license required at the outset. Varies by state DOT but in most places you have to apply for one after having X number of signs. In Florida the annual license fee is $35 I think.

Much easier to buy old neglected signs. I’m in the industry and that’s all I do. Once you have inventory you can negotiate with municipalities for permits on better more lucrative signs.

>>54268037
Im in the Chicago suburbs area.
If I buy a sign from someone will I then have to negotiate with the land owner for a new contract?

>>54268142
There will likely be a ground lease in place already. You can always renegotiate, and that’s a critical point in any contract. The major sign operators employ people where that’s all they do is look for contractual leverage to reduce rent. I did that for 10 years.

One option would be to buyout the landowner so you have no future rent payments what amounts to basically an easement.

Of course, it could be that there’s already an easement in place in which case the rent is moot.

best country for this?

>>54268333
Checked, and depends on what you mean. You’ll make the most money in Times Square, Sunset Strip, Tokyo, Vegas, London. Places that are known for iconic signage basically. That said the barriers to entry in these places are enormous financially.

In Somalia you could probably put signs up all day without any permits at all. But then you’re in Somalia.

Probably somewhere in between the two. India? The Middle East? Eastern Europe?

Each place will have their own challenges really.

>>54268259
Hmmm so is rural areas better then big cities?
I see alot of big signs along highways in bumblefuck areas but Im not sure if those are worth while.

>>54268515
Also once you find someone to rent, do they go there and palce the ad or is it your responsibility.

>>54268515
that's better answer than i was expecting. cheers. i can try india or eastern europe

>>54268670
Also want to ask this question. Do you need some giant fucking printer or how does that work?

How do you compete with dudes like BlueLineMedia?

>>54268607
In rural areas you just have to adjust your mindset to knowing you’re not going to make a ton of money on any one sign. If you want to make richfag money out in the country it’s a volume business. That said, look for home builders as advertisers in areas that are still rural but on the fringes of a metro area. Look for the Buc-ee’s by you then go another exit away from the center of population. Good rule of thumb I just thought of lmao.

>>54268670
You or your contractors place the ad. Looking at around $500 a throw for the install. Any crew of 2 or more can do it. No special training or license required.

>>54269055
Is it your responsibility to get it printed? Can you go to any sign printing place? Does the buyer send you the file to print or what?

>>54268921
There are fabricators that specialize in billboard vinyl. Circle Graphics I think is one.

>>54269039
Anyone can do what blue line does. They’re basically an ad agency that inflates the actual cost of the advertising to their bottom line. For now anyway I deal mostly in issues related to the physical asset/leasing/real estate/etc.

>>54269130
National chains like truck stops fast food and QSR will have their own ad copy ready to go. For mom and pops you can do it yourself with photoshop or something similar. Or what I like to do even if it’s at a loss at first is hire local artists to do the work. Great way to meet artsy chicks btw.

But basically you either do it or have the advertiser send it to you. Then you send to a fabricator, pay them around $750 for a 14x48 vinyl that will last a year or so or more if not facing south in northern hemisphere. The vinyl will arrive a week later and from there it’s on you to have installed.

>>54269343
Hey anon, anyway I can contact you with more Q? I dont wanna lose the quality infro when thread dies

>>54269437
Throwaway email:

Yobek99388@galcake.com

Shoot me an email, and ill try to return with my real email. Hesitant to do so however because it’s 4chan.

What would be a typical contract you can expect an advertiser to sign up to? Is there high turn over of clients?

>>54270403
No perfect answer to this. National chains will probably want a full year plus, then renew every year. This is probably the best route to take, perming out your signs for long (year plus) contracts. Might make a little less than board jockeying every couple months with new copy but it’s better to take less for less work IMO. Depends how hungry you are basically.

Small mom and pops will want to do a really short term (1-3) months just to try it out and see if it gets results. I like to offer these folks a pretty steep discount out of the gate and take my time with them developing ad copy so we know it will be effective. They typically renew and are grateful for the advice.

>>54269437
Replied

>>54265770
trying self bump

>>54265770
I have autism and I do drink milk and eat milk products. The billboard got me thinking

>>54265926
>million bucks a year
I thought you just said that they make 300k a year? Which is it?

>>54265770
Where’s the last thread op

Did OP explain how to buy a sign? This sounds based but googling this shit just gives me all the places trying to sell their advertising space.
Also not American so no idea if different here.

i'm in canada and i know the laws and regulations here are scientifically engineered to keep me poor. so i won't even look into doing this because i know the government will cock block me. you're not even allowed a lemonade stand without a million dollars liability insurance and half a dozen licenses and permits.

>>54266033
Is there any chance for this to work in Europe? or for an European to buy American signs?

was thinking of moving to india or somewhere where people are allowed to do things. india looks like irl minecraft sometimes. like in india if you want to start a business you can just build a table out of crap wood and drag it somewhere and set up your random shop and nobody cares. no insurance or regulations or licensing requirements so complex it requires a law degree to navigate.

How do I start this in VA with 10 grand? Is this or a vending machine

in canada i literally thought "what if i want to sell juice at the local fair" started looking at recipes and juice makers. was thinking fresh juices but some unique flavours maybe something with hibiscus. have you tried hibiscus in a juice its surprisingly tasty to have some floral notes in your fruit drink.

but then i started looking into it and realized i would have to already be rich to do it. the costs are astronomical. all the licensing and you need literally a million dollars of liability insurance. how the hell am i supposed to even cause a million dollars worth of damage running a juice machine i have no idea. but it doesnt have to make sense because the real purpose of such regulations is to give the regulators a feelgood rush of addictive power. there is no way little old me some random millenial white guy is going to be allowed to start any kind of business in canada no matter how small that business is

>>54267284
>niggardry
This thread is already kino

Only billboard that a.) is profitable and most importantly b.) matters.

>>54274620
>in some markets

fucking retard.

>>54275220
Until ranjesh the local politician sees your making money and extorts you

Thanks everyone for saving the thread. Had dinner and figured it was over

>>54274834
Look up sign brokers. Or peruse the state DOT websites where they list the signs and their owners. Often times billboards won’t even wind up on the open market, owners are made offers all the time by people like me and eventually a specific offer or their situation leads them to sell. Some states are better than others about listing the assets. Floridas is great just google fdot outdoor advertising database

>>54275112
Well, if you change your mind I’ll be here anon

>>54275121
Cautiously I would say I don’t know how it could be much different. I know france has lots of ordinances against signage in the countryside as well they should.

>>54275226
Try a hillside off I-81. If you’re far enough away from the road you aren’t regulated by DOT

>>54275381
Thanks anon

>>54275613
Based

Thanks again anons, will be here til I go to sleep

>>54275220
My understanding is that India is quite bureaucratic, though I don’t know to what extent you can pay to grease the wheels.

>>54275121
We in America cuck ourselves backward to accommodate foreign investment. Everything is for sale! Some country huh

Anyway didn’t mean to leave such a lame response above. Check out the Florida billboards here to get an idea for what’s available. If you’re serious about it you can retain me to negotiate the deal

See even I’m for sale

http://fdotewp1.dot.state.fl.us/rightofway/

>>54265926
Kek was this a sign on a reservation?

>>54276806
Inverness, FL among other locations here down south

>>54276229
Lmao imagine a pajeet shakedown

>sir
>sir

>>54276520
What would you recommend if I have $30k and live in Portland Oregon as far as starting in the billboard business?

>>54277927
Look for signs on surface streets and make offers. You might get one. Then paint it some ridiculous color and start a website

>the[ridiculous color]billboardPDX.com

>>54278076
Thanks

This reminds me of that time some guy rented to the government his piece of land for them to put an antenna on it.

Based thread, saved and monitoring Thanks billboard anon

Great thread OP, thanks. Some questions:
- Do you make more money by selling signs or holding and renting them? Or combo of both?
- How big is your geographical footprint? Do you operate in multiple counties? Multiple states? I imagine it's all easier if it's in your back yard.
- Do signs require light/electricity? Does land owner pay for that, or is there a separate/dedicated hookup?
- Do banks extend loans to buy signs? Or do your finance all sing purchases with cash?
- Who pays for sign installation and upkeep?

In your experience is there any money in very small billboards on interstates? Just curious, I have put up signs before but never rented them out. I know the 7ftX 10 ft sign we put in someone's bean field got a ton of attention. It was just a few junk fence posts and some plywood but that brought in more people than anything we ever did.

Personally I pay more attention to smaller billboards because its likely to be something I wouldn't have found with google or some schizo's rant.

>>54278840
Right now I only flip and broker deals; no current inventory. This works for me but I know eventually I’ll buy some signs again. Buying and holding (operating) them is about the income which does carry some risk where I live in Florida. I’d say try both. It’s all about finding your comfy niche.

I’d definitely recommend having them around your home. For me as a matter of convenience it would be like a 2 hour drive in any direction. Digital signs can be operated from anywhere rather easily.

Even most old wooden boards have lights now. For non-digital sign the cost is negligible so your landlord might pay out of wanting to avoid the hassle of determining how much it costs to operate two light bulbs for 8 hours every night for a month.

There are banks operated by older industry guys who specialize in it. Rates are comparable to small biz loan rates. When you approach them you should be able to demonstrate some kind of knowledge about the industry.

The sign owner does for the installation of the sign itself and of the ad copy. Digitals have 10 year warranties on the LED.

I'm in San Diego (Mission Valley).

What would the going rate be around here?

>>54278977
Smaller signs you really need to pay closer attention to the vegetation since they are usually lower to the ground. And at a conference last autumn saw an interesting presentation about how non-essential aesthetic improvements to signs increase revenue potential. You might try slapping on some latticing and framework to make it prettier. It’s all about being attractive to draw the eye. Lots like real life desu

>>54279040
Along I-8 you could be looking at $7-$10k a month to advertise on a 14x48 vinyl billboard. Could fall outside that range but not by much

>>54270037
Might reply in the future but rn I'm broke and just got a new job

>>54265869
>$500,000+ for a digital
>>will generate $300k+ per year
Seriously?

>>54265869
Hey anon, do you think I buying this property would be a good deal?

>>54265901
>>54265869
Anon what if you have nothing but a bunch of Lamar build boards in your area?

Would you try to buy from them?

>>54266033
>Budget I've got 300k from crypto
>Area: central Florida

>>54276541
>>54275220
it is very bureaucratic. tbqh i've seen only businesses that do good in india are the ones that evade taxes (i.e. no online transactions). the moment you generate an online bill, taxniggers will come knocking, no care for whether you're in profit or loss.

>>54265770
Could you answer some real retard questions anon.
For GTA Canada specifically, and about 50k budget so I’d be looking I guess around smaller highway towns or signs on top of/on buildings.

Would you set up a business, or LLC or something, to own these?

You recommend buying an exisiting sign and looking for one a bit dilapidated and fixing it up… what are some structural features I should look for to know it’s salvageable?

For signs on top of buildings, wouldn’t most just be owned by the building owner and rented direct to advertiser if it’s so lucrative? Or charge a high lease so there’s a thin profit margin for any middleman between them and advertiser?

So say I see a run-down billboard I like that’s a bit overgrown on the side of a highway, how do I find out who owns it? And then tips for contact?

Now say I located a spot and negotiated to lease land from someone near a highway… how complicated do the legalities get - in terms of a contract stating he agrees for me to use the land requiring lawyers to sign off on it? Or reasoning permits so there is a section of land I’m entitled to in a lease…? (I can see how taking over an existing lease would be easier).

Is public liability complicated? I assume it’s needed in case some nigger tries to climb then falls and breaks a leg and sues? What about insurance for storms/vandalism/etc.?

With the city planner managing signs - does that only apply to paid advertising signs? Is it hard to find this information, or to set up with them initially (again I can see why taking an existing sign lease would be better).

Out of curiosity, what about schizos putting up random doomer signs in their own back yard - not controlled by the city regulators?

If I have a decent sized house block with fronting on a busy road, can I put up a billboard myself and charge advertisers, or again does this need city planning approval?

Should I try to get a job with city planning somehow to get insider deals in the future?

>>54280385
Look up on here

http://fdotewp1.dot.state.fl.us/rightofway/

Look for smaller or one off owners and talk to them. Confirm revenues before making offer.

>>54280535
LLC definitely

For steel check rust. Wood, rot. Both can be fixed but issue arises for non confirming signs (long story)

Idk why they wouldn’t do it themselves. The signs may easements bought long ago from a former owner or something. Hiring a sign op for a roooftop agreements I’ve seen are in the 50/50 area

Look for a little license plate tag in the sign with your state/provinces emblem then look it up later. Or just go to your state/provinces dept of transport website and hope they have a map function. Or just call them. Info should be public record
The leases aren’t complicated. Your right extends to anything that would be considered ny a reasonable person to be necessary to fulfill obligations set forth in the lease

Speaking of what’s reasonable- your list of questions is not so I’m just going to wing the rest of it by saying nobody manages signs. Signs are governed by the law which is in turn administered by people hurt so deeply they became city planners. If the law is on your side you win every time. YMMV in more diverse parts of our accursed continent

Don’t become a city planner unless you’re a mid-wit with a god complex. I interned at a municipal planning office. Imagine the “walkable cities” meme from /pol/ beaten into your head for 8 hours every day except Unironically.