/biz/ - Business & Finance

usury is what happened, usury is always the root of the problem.

the world is a complicated place and any system designed to interact with a shitload of it (such as monetary systems) is necessarily going to be complex as well. you're a brainlet and if you were making decisions hundreds of thousands would starve to death. fucking kill yourself.

>>54094598
>victim blaming

>>54094638
you cant be a victim of physics retard

>>54094598
Explain why a bank needs to be able to put itself in omega debt in order for me to be able to buy fucking eggs, fucking nigger?

>>54094832
you wouldn't get it little guy

the banks need to make a lot of money if they're going to offer loans. they make this money by lending out the money they hold. its called fractional reserve. if they actually had the money, just holding on to it, they wouldnt make enough money to give people loans for cars, houses, and businesses.

but why do i have to be in this? no bank would ever give me a loan and i wouldnt ask for one. for me its just a risky place to put my money and im never going to get anything out of it.

>>54095099
well, go on then. stop putting your money in banks.

>>54095218
direct deposit is more convenient then cashing a cheque. and cheaper for me. but the cost savings and convenience is starting to get outweighed by the risk.

i think ill keep using the bank but i wont be leaving any more money in the bank then i need for any online purchases that month

>>54095099
>the banks need to make a lot of money if they're going to offer loans.
DON'T OFFER LOANS THEN
>>54095218
>well, go on then. stop putting your money in banks.
AND WHERE WOULD MY MONEY GO, UNDER THE FUCKING FRIDGE?
>Hello yes mr boss i would like you to grab a handful of coins and dollars and just put them in a bag or something so that i can hide it between the tiles near my toilet
COOL FUCKING THANKS GREAT IDEA

>>54095351
huh. so you're saying the banks ARE offering you a service you need and appreciate?

>>54095351
Best part is, legally you CAN'T just not put your money in the banks. So you're forced into this shitty situation run by bankers who themselves dont know wtf is going on.
Only advice I can give is use a credit union.

>>54094344
the entire financial system is like this. at the end of the day modern civilization is upheld by jewish schizophrenia and excel workbooks, which no one understands.

t. accountant at a company that does 12 figures a year in sales

>>54094890
Literally spat out my tea

>>54095379
>store money
Yes thanks
>now run the fuck about with it and make weird rules that make that money disappear
Completely fucking unnecessary
People keep clamoring up about how the US dollar is backed by the army or some other bullshit, where does that come into play?

>>54095497
cool sounds like you got an a+ idea for a business here "hold money without loaning it out" go out and get er started buddy you're gonna revolutionize the biz

it's all so retail doesn't panic and they stay focused on whatever newest capeshit instead

>oh no no my dear concerned citizen it's not called printing money anymore, it's quantitative easing! haha yeah very complex high level stuff my dear concerned citizen, sort of like the quantum physics very advanced things we're doing don't worry our experts have it all under control!

>>54095379
he's saying the banks offer a necessary service, so if he has to use a bank, if everyone does, then why don't we have a bank that actually holds the money in full instead of a fraction of it. we have these degen megaprofit banks that take massive risks to give people who aren't us loans, what do we get out of it? let the people who need loans be forced to put their money in degen big banks. those of us who aren't asking the bank to loan us our education and housing and car and etc shouldnt be forced to take the same risks as the people getting loans, we should have our own bank that doesn't take big risks or give out loans.

>>54094344
steak is simple, buy low sell high, stake steak, eat steak, enjoy steak, love steak

>>54095566
oh yeah?

>>54095331
you can leave up to 250k in any bank no problem
once you have more than 250k that you need to keep in cashola you just get another account at a different bank and waa-laa

the only people having problems right now are companies that had 'illions in a single bank

>>54095099
Wasted digits and kike detected

>>54095645
retard the post

>>54095645
>no worries bro, biden will bail you out your peasant monies if the bank collapses from being a bunch of degens chasing unsustainable profits
real reliable backbone for an economy you got there

>>54094344
>people who work in the field dedicated to watching the system couldn't tell you what will happen a week from now
lol. lmao

smaller banks and nonbank financials being at risk of going bust was known to everyone in the field since january last year. "rate hike make bond go down and squeeze institutions that hold mostly bond" isn't exactly complicated.

>>54094670
then why is gravity always keeping us down?

>>54094598
hundreds of thousands are starving to death tho

>>54095645
uh oh, ANOTHER bank needs to liquidate bonds below cost basis! what do now?

>>54094598
Good gentile. Never question the scam. No, better than that, actively hunt the people trying to resist!
There, good golem.

>>54095428
woah this guy is an accountant at a company! crazy.

>>54095497
USD is backed by debt, domestic and global growth. the days of needing military power to convince countries to use USD is long gone, because countries will happily hedge their USD shorts. trade is not what drives currency demand.

>>54095559
money printer increases deposits, QE increases reserves. only when QE is used to finance deficit spending it spills over into deposits. it uses different terminology because the effects are
different.

>>54095566
>why don't we have a bank that actually holds the money in full instead of a fraction of it
the purpose of banks is to keep cash flowing and money velocity high. no banks, less growth.

>>54095725
SVB failed because of growth in deposits for which they couldn't provide the demanded interest, not because they were a bunch of degen gamblers. the fact that they bought shit tons of safe assets that the fed flip-flipped on to generate yield for their new deposits is what broke their neck. maybe they shouldn't have grown that quickly, maybe the fed shouldn't have dumped so much cash into the economy that led to the 2021 tech boom, or maybe the fed shouldn't have declared inflation as transitory. but there's little else they could've done given their hand, same as many other smaller banks.

>>54095887
Slight kek

>buy burger from mcdonalds
>its half gone
>whats left of the patty is covered in piss
>UM ACTUALLY YOU LET US DO WHATEVER WE WANTED WITH THE BURGER WHEN YOU ASKED FOR IT
>YOU ASKED FOR A BURGER AND THATS A BURGER, YOU DIDN'T SAY DON'T SHIT ON IT!!!

>go to the hospital
>wake up without a kidney, leg, and one of your balls
>UM ACTUALLY WE FRACTIONALLY RESERVED THOSE BODY PARTS
>YOU AGREED TO IT BY LETTING US HOLD YOU FOR A WHILE
>WE'LL GIVE IT BACK- PROMISE!!a

>ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO STORE SOMETHING WITHOUT TOUCHING IT
>IT HAS TO BE LENT OUT BEHIND YOUR BACK
>AND WHEN WE CAN'T GET IT BACK, WE DONT OWE YOU ANYTHING
>YOU AGREED TO THAT WHEN WE FORCED YOU TO STORE THE THING

>>54096127
or maybe they should just hold on to the money instead of getting locked in a gamble they can't get out of for at least 10 years. they had all their eggs in that bond basket dude, fucking degens chasing a percent like an old man breaking his back to pick up a quarter of the sidewalk.

the purpose of banks is to keep cash flowing sure. but none of that is ever going to flow towards me. personally, if there was a bank that offered no financial services or loans whatsoever and just simply held the fucking money, i'd probably go there. we're being asked to take all this risk so others can gain, noble in a sense perhaps but i'm not really all that selfless desu so not for me.

>>54096273
>>go to the hospital
>>wake up without a kidney, leg, and one of your balls
>>UM ACTUALLY WE FRACTIONALLY RESERVED THOSE BODY PARTS
>>YOU AGREED TO IT BY LETTING US HOLD YOU FOR A WHILE
>>WE'LL GIVE IT BACK- PROMISE!!a
Kek, don't give (them) any bright ideas anon.

like, if you need a mortgage, or a car loan, business loan etc then you should have to keep your money in that bank until the loan is paid, so they can make enough profit holding your money to fund all the lending they do. great, economy needs that right. but i don't, a lot of us don't get anything out banks, so why do we have to keep our money in the bank that needs to take risks to give out loans, when we're not getting any loans. shouldnt we have our own bank, where we pay a monthly fee for the bank not to have to take risks and just hold the money instead and no loans.

maybe what im talking about actually exists but i can't find it from a google search, seems credit unions are also fractional reserve. is there even such a thing as full reserve banking?

>>54096127
>no banks, less growth.
Fine by me. Not like it's benefitted me and mine any since my grandparents generation.

>>54094344
>Make the system so unbelievably immensely overcomplicated where people who work in the field dedicated to watching the system couldn't tell you what will happen a week from now
that's what every complex system does by nature, nobody "made" it that way on purpose. you can say the same about weather forecast.

>>54094344
>>54095302
I'm going to start withdrawing all my cash every paycheck
I trust my safe far more than a bank

>>54096681
weather forecasts would probably be a lot more accurate without all the geoengineering going on behind the scenes. so yes i can and will say the same about weather forecasts. there is and always will be actual conspiracies going on and you're a fool if you think the banking system is entirely above board

>>54094344
>>Make the system so unbelievably immensely overcomplicated where people who work in the field dedicated to watching the system couldn't tell you what will happen a week from now
That is just the result of information flowing freely, not of the complexity.
It is unpredictable, since if it were predictable, people would do everything to make the prediction untrue.

>>54096127
>no banks, less growth.
There is zero inherent human value in "growth".

>>54096359
>or maybe they should just hold on to the money instead of getting locked in a gamble they can't get out of for at least 10 years
customers of banks demand interest for handing someone else their cash and taking on counter-party risk, especially silicon valley companies, and especially when the federal funds rate is hiked to the degree that it was last year. a bank that doesn't buy bonds in times of 0% federal funds rate is a bank that has to demand interest from customers, much like the very safe banks in the EU had to last year, where you literally had to pay interest to give them your money because they wouldn't even be able to finance their operations otherwise.
>they had all their eggs in that bond basket dude
what else are banks gonna generate interest with, stock gambling? all the big banks killed their prime brokerage divisions last year for a reason. bonds are the only safe asset if you want to generate interest.

global growth goes down and interest rates go down with it because countries need to pay their bills. risk for the same interest rate as in the past goes up. expect even more of this in the future as growth stagnates.

(also >>54096616)
>but none of that is ever going to flow towards me.
whether you like it or not, credit is why most of the world has the living standard it has today. the alternative is the perpetual stagnation of the middle ages where nobody has the surplus cash required to even attempt ventures into new technologies. once people became aware of how useful of a tool it is, countries without credit became countries that will get invaded by their neighbours.

>we're being asked to take all this risk
you're taking no additional risk. when the state fails to pay the insurance, you can expect all the cash and gold under your pillow to be worthless. might as well buy food, guns and ciggies to hedge against that risk.

>>54095566
Do you expect a bank to operate at a loss? If they hold a 100% reserve they have no way to keep the lights on. Should they provide services for free?

>>54096482
>>54096536
big safe banks still buy interest generating assets, but it's all hedged accordingly, so the risk is very low. in fact, all the big banks, even those with shoddy reputations, are very safe because they're systematically crucial and the fed will do anything to ensure their operation. for example, after 2008, the fed initiated QE to pump shit tons of cash into the reserves of the big banks so they are properly capitalized for hard times. smaller banks not so much.

>>54096850
customers of banks demand interest? ok well those customers demanding a 0.1% APR on their "savings" accounts can get in bed with a traditional degen bank then. but i'm not demanding interest and i don't want a loan so why do i have to take the risks?

i'm not saying do away with credit, i'm saying the people who need it or want it should have the option, as they now do. and the people who don't want it and wouldn't benefit from it should have their own "banks" that simply hold the fucking money and thats it.

>it's no risk because the government will just pay it back
putting the government in a position where it has to do that if things fail but the government can't afford to cover it if they do fail. when failure is just a matter of when and not if...
that sounds risky

>bonds are the only safe asset
well clearly not. so if there are no safe assets then taking less risk and diversifying so no one single thing can completely wreck you overnight, seems like good risk management, which the degens drunk on profit at the banks arent psychologically capable of

>>54096844
growth is what funds the armies that protect countries. growth is what funds infrastructure. growth is what funds technological progress. growth is what ensures that trade operates without friction. growth is what generates the surplus that ensures that people don't starve when there's a bad harvest. credit generates growth, and credit requires growth in order not to fail systematically.
you're free to hate what growth psychosis is turning society into, but you're delusional if you don't see how anyone in power very quickly arrives at the conclusion that there is a huge need for it. countries that cannot grow are dominated.

>>54096942
you would pay the bank for the service they offer, i know real complicated isn't it. they take that money and use it to keep the lights on. real bizarre concept apparently so not surprised it never occurred to you.

>>54097074
What service? Just hold BTC key in your head.

>>54097072
>growth is what funds the armies that protect countries.
A) My country doesn't have an army
B) You can fund an army on a constant budget

>growth is what funds technological progress.
>growth is what generates the surplus that ensures that people don't starve when there's a bad harvest.
There is no reason for growth to get that. I think you are confusing "growth" and surplus, which are totally different things.

>>54095566
>necessary service
>honey we really need the new 2023 cadilac escalade, our 2022 model is getting old
yeah all thise loans are totally needed lmfao

>>54097130
>BTC
Thanks, but I really do want something more private than that.

At least my bank accounts lets me do transactions without telling any person I exchange money with my entire banking history.

>>54097243
>He doesn't create a new address for every transaction

kek

>>54096368
>>54096273
jesus christ, is this possible? are we gonna have to trade body parts just to set a broken bone or stay overnight due to a bowel obstruction?

>>54096368
knegg ;)

>>54094598
>is necessarily going to be complex as well
>necessarily
Wrong. We've dug ourselves into a massive hole by adjusting the system to cater to an endless variety of unnecessary bullshit.

>>54097002
what you envision exists but there's very little demand for it because people who aren't retarded see that they can also get much more interest for exactly the same risk at big banks that will get bailed out.

>putting the government in a position where it has to do that if things fail but the government can't afford to cover it if they do fail. when failure is just a matter of when and not if...
>that sounds risky
USD itself is a form of credit.

>>54097191
>My country doesn't have an army
this is a luxury that countries can afford because other countries ensure safety. pre-blocs the story was very different for all of history. at the very least, the blocs need to fund their militaries and attempt to compete militarily.

>You can fund an army on a constant budget
lol. lmao

>There is no reason for growth to get that.
no growth, little surplus. plenty of planned economies tried very hard to break up this relationship and failed. as long as there are countries and there is competition between countries, it won't go away. taking on the risk of funding tech requires credit, and credit requires growth.

>>54097374
>this is a luxury that countries can afford
The "luxury" cost around hundred billion Euros this year, but I get your point.

>no growth, little surplus. plenty of planned economies tried very hard to break up this relationship and failed. as long as there are countries and there is competition between countries, it won't go away. taking on the risk of funding tech requires credit, and credit requires growth.
Literally not an argument.
- You can have high surplus on zero growth.
- Planned economies are a total strawman

>>54097297
Are you retarded? That does not solve the problem at all.

>>54097576
Use a fucking tumbler too then.

>>54094344
I’ve heard good things about the fax machine

The truth is banks are obsolete in the era of a digital payment system.
The government can run it all, without loans.

>>54097750
I don't trust the government to run a shithouse.

>>54097531
if you don't plan your economy in one way or another, then it will very naturally fill the void of growth from surplus, or surplus will reduce to meet the current demand if growth cannot be created. nobody's gonna produce potatoes that nobody is willing to buy. you might create a little surplus on your own, but it's not like the entire economy will start hedging against full-blown failed harvests on its own. this is what econ looked like for the majority of history.
you can attempt to plan your economy and *force* the production of excess surplus, or you can generate the kind of growth that perpetually creates it for you because there's an expectation that demand will eventually catch up to the global potato surplus. credit fuels this process because you need to pay back your loan.

>>54097692
The mental gymnastics people are doing to not pay in cash are so bizarre.

- Tumblers are a single point of trust, which can trivially collect user data and need a certain size to be useable. A compromised tumbler compromises all users.
- Tumblers aren't free. How often do you wash your money, 1% loss each month?
- BTC transactions take an eternity and it is USELESS as a currecy as long as it is seen as an investment opportunity


Hobestly, BTC is so aweful from a technical perspective that only the most tech illiterate still defend it on its merits. It is unfixably bad.

>>54097072
> bla bla jewish pilpul
I give you my money to hold, you provide me an easy way to transact with it, I pay you for that service
Everything else but that is jewish tricks to rob you

>>54094344
if you really understand it then its not overcomplicated read evolution of money by byrne, easy to find for free even in his amazon description

>>54097795
I don't trust the government to run a shithouse.


>walk into shithouse and pull down pants
>before you can drop a turd an armed guard knocks on the door and demands payment
>you pay and then take a shit, you fill out an application to flush and file it with the relevant authorities paying a small fee
>as you step out of the shithouse you are handed a carbon credit bill for your methane emissions in the shithouse
>a camera was watching you shit and storing that at an nsa data center in utah for reasons of "national security" allegedly

>>54094344
The system is very simple
Youll keep working waging and slaving while the jews will be slayin teen Ukrainian pussy, Epstein
Whats so difficult to understand

>>54097837
>if you don't plan your economy in one way or another
Sure, my plan for the economy is: total banker death
That should solve the problem.

But seriously, I get your point about surplus either being forcibly extinguished or invested into growth. I would say that from the perspective of the current financial system you are 100% right, what I would like to actually see is a definancialization of growth.

>>54094344
>literally all you’ve had to do in the last 3 years to not lose money is be antisemitic and racist
>still not knowing “what went wrong”

>>54097893
*sigh*
So just buy Monero with the BTC snd transfer the Monero and the other entity can buy BTC with your Monero...

And yes, you're still talking to the same anon...

>>54098041
i've thought about it for quite a while and every system i can think of is an awful lot like the current financial system. i've since come to terms with the fact that the hamster wheel we find ourselves in cannot be avoided and that the people in power, as much as i hate their smug asses, are following an understandable and perhaps unavoidable logic. some people tout world government + central planning as the solution to these issues but i don't think it's feasible at all given the state of institutions like the EU or the UN, let alone particularly desirable.

>>54094524
FPBP and /thread

>>54098183
Maybe, as some blackpilled communist roughly said: "it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the current financial sysyem".

>>54098296
This.

They want to destroy russians. They want to destroy muslims. They want to destroy europeans. They just feed the flames and see who dies last.

>>54098183
Bitcoin based system is not like current shitstem and is a live alternative right here right now

>>54098165
>So just buy Monero with the BTC snd transfer the Monero and the other entity can buy BTC with your Monero...
Pure mental gymnastics to overcome how awful BTC is from a technical perspective.


Monero won't ever take of, as governments know it actually resembles something which isn't obviously worse than a bank acvount.

>>54098599
>Bitcoin based system is not like current shitstem
Lmao
m
a
o

BTC is the current system on steroids, finanzialized *everything*.

>>54094344
Why do you think usury was punishable by death?

>>54098656
it won't "take off" BECAUSE IT DOESN'T NEED TO

>"MUH MENTAL GYMNASTICS"

Well it WORKS.

>>54098708
>it won't "take off" BECAUSE IT DOESN'T NEED TO
If the maximum user number is 0.01% of the population it is not a currency.

At least you aren't defending how BTC anymore.

>>54098599
have you ever asked yourself why every country in the world switched to fiat currencies post 1970? jews are not a satisfactory answer.

besides, the common wisdom from 30 years of enthusiasm for decentralized systems in the CS world is that they suffer from the very issues that they attempt to solve. protocols move slowly, platforms move quickly. hence, in order to provide many of the services that banks provide today (e.g. credit), many of these decentralized protocols are eventually abused to provide the services of centralized platforms. you can see this exact effect in the cryptocurrency world as well. since finance is always developing, there will never be a "complete" decentralized protocol that covers all the things that platforms can just casually implement over night.

>>54098794
Monero is a tool for a job snd it does its job perfectly. BTC is not the same tool.

>"HUUURR DUUURRR WHY CAN'T MY MICROWAVE ALSO BE USED TO CHANGE MY CARS TYRE? IT WILL NEVER TAKE OFF BECAUSE IT SUCKS!"

>>54098876
>perfectly
I would say "okay". Which is why it will never see any significant use.

>BTC is not the same tool.
Yes, BTC is not a tool at all. It is a stupid mess full of awful technical flaws, it is literally outperformed by paypal on every single metric.

>>54098917
Well if you want to trust paypal...

>>54098840
with the future of ai written software is it not conceivable that at some point in the perhaps near future that we might find ourselves in a position where decentralized protocols move faster then platforms? even leaving the ai out of it we'll grind the software by hand and get there eventually. centralized platforms have a lot of overhead and complications and risks that decentralized systems can reduce. if speed of deployment is the only thing a centralized platform can offer in the future it won't be enough.

>>54098840
>protocols move slowly, platforms move quickly.
But the whole defi was meant to solve that. If you want platforms smart contracts is what you want.

I would say that the failure is 100% *technical* starting with BTC almot every crypto currency is riddled with obvious unfixable flaws and those who have less of these flaws are completely overshadowed by thr finanzialization of the others.

>>54098945
I can transfer money with it in seconds. That alone puts paypal above almost every single crypto currency.

My question is: should I trust the KYC exchange I have to use?

>>54099024
You'venever used bitcoin nor monero have you

Now you've come full circle and are back at spurious "convenience" as your only criterion, but when this discussion started it was about SECRECY.

>>54099082
>it was about SECRECY
paypal doesn't leak my entire payment history to ever person i send money to.

We completed the cycle, I guess. For the record, I actually have purchased something with a crypto currency. I still see them as absolutely atrocious from a technical perspective.

>>54099144
NEITHER
DOES
MONERO

YOU FUCKING TWAT!!

>>54098957
protocols move slowly not because software is slow to write (platforms have to implement these features as well, after all), but because it's difficult to update decentralized protocols across all the systems that use them. take the ipv4 -> ipv6 upgrade debacle as a particularly bad instance, for example.

>platforms have a lot of overhead and complications and risks that decentralized systems can reduce
CS people have been singing these praises of decentralization since the 70s and yet every non-trivial decentralized system was replaced by a centralized one. decentralized router protocols became the ISP-centric mess that is BGP. IRC and e-mail were largely replaced by tools like discord, slack or telegram. home-brew e-mail servers died because mails from these servers wouldn't make it through the spam filters of big providers. the decentralized web of thousands of websites turned into just a couple of platforms. even telephones are starting to get replaced by voip platforms and whatsapp. torrent & co were replaced by streaming services. etc etc

>>54098985
smart contracts as a concept lack the trust inherent to most platforms, hence scam fiasco after scam fiasco. there are ways to mitigate this (software verification against specifications that are easier to check than the code, for example), but there's no satisfactory implementation yet and working in that area i have my doubts that there ever will be, since you can pull many of the same tricks at the specification level.

>>54099024
paypal can close your account any time and they do. is that the future of money? remember the recent scare when paypal was going to start fining people for "misinformation". decentralized protocols solve this issue which is that centralized platforms have the physical capability of doing such awful things.

>>54099174
I know, but nobody gives a shit. All coins are just financial instruments, nobody except a few weirdos in the monero community sees them as a currency.

>>54099144
do you even know what lightning is?

>>54099255
>paypal can close your account any time and they do.
kyc exchanges banned customers for sending to specific addresses.

>decentralized protocols solve this issue
No, if they did they would get banned.
Paypal bannings are a political tool.

>>54099279
Do you know what cash is?

>>54099239
>there are ways to mitigate this (software verification against specifications that are easier to check than the code, for example), but there's no satisfactory implementation yet and working in that area i have my doubts that there ever will be, since you can pull many of the same tricks at the specification level.
Just formally verify the smart contract. Seems legitimately doable.

>>54099279
an after the fact attempt to fix bitcoin which newer systems already fix

>>54095351
>DON'T OFFER LOANS THEN
Offering loans is made possible by fractional reserve banking, which effectively creates money out of thing air. Bitcoin and other hard money like gold is literally designed to prevent this, they can not be created out of thin air. Not offering loans would also cripple economic growth, btw. It would cause a deflationary death spiral.

>AND WHERE WOULD MY MONEY GO, UNDER THE FUCKING FRIDGE?
In Bitcoin, you mong.

>>54094598
>95 IQ brainlet detected.
Monetary systems don't need to be complicated. The bourgeoisie made them complicated so that they could get away with not paying fair price for commodities and labor. Finance, as with every other societal component (i.e. law, government, justice, health) complexity is inversely correlated with fairness, beneficence, good administration and utility and it is positively correlated with corruption, wretchedness elitism and abuse. Bitcoin is the irrefutable living proof that the current monetary system is absolutely bloated and riddled with parasites and bad actors.

>>54099239
well computers are about a thousand times more capable then they were in the 70s and there are about a thousand times more people writing software. eventually those overly optimistic people from the 70s will be right and i think that time will be in the coming decades if it comes at all. there is the constant threat of centralized systems takeover that we can see in history as you pointed out. but there's some slight hope it doesn't entirely turn out that way and either way with all these problems and risks clearly it's still early and its better to be early.

>>54099300
kyc exchanges are centralized dinosaurs we need to replace. personally i haven't used one in years, there are decentralized options that are superior. decentralized exchanges are slower to grow then i predicted years ago but they are growing.

>>54099331
>Seems legitimately doable.
we'll see, i have my doubts that your average dev will start writing proofs or that the resulting specs won't suck to the degree that nobody is going to bother with reading them. especially for more complicated finance stuff. but if there is a way to create trust, this is it, yeah.

>>54099362
i don't think so, but i'd love to be proven wrong of course.

>>54099239
Torrent was not replaced by streaming, wtf are you smoking? It's not 2016 anymore. Streaming has basically collapsed. The value proposition of Netflix is gone.

>>54099425
Take that up with the government.

>>54099362
>well computers are about a thousand times more capable then they were in the 70s
I would say they are about a hundred thousand times faster and a thousand times less capable.

Only an insane person would put significant trust in any software larger than 1M SLOC, which is what a lot of software is.

>>54099446
torrent is effectively on life support compared to the old days

>Streaming has basically collapsed
lol. lmao
even when normies decide not to use a commericial streaming platform, they'll still use some other sketchy centralized platform to watch their movies, not torrent.

>>54099545
Thanks to modern internet speeds, torrenting is faster than ever for me. Shit, some people went BACK to pirating after streaming became shit.

>>54098424
you stop exposing us!
>go back to chudpole
>oy vey take your meds
>schizo!

>>54096127
>USD is backed by debt, domestic and global growth. the days of needing military power to convince countries to use USD is long gone, because countries will happily hedge their USD shorts.
Please tell me what's changed since Libya.

>>54099545
>torrent is effectively on life support
I can get any anime I want at sppeds greater than from a streaming service.

Streaming is fragmenting, destroying its value proposition.

>>54099510
paradigms change, even when it comes to software. just off the top of my head i can imagine an ai proofreader doing like a grammar check on your code. and if it cant help today maybe give it 10 years. just have an ai scan a piece of software for errors. the code massaged into existence by ai prompting combined with old fashioned code writing and held together by ai proofreading. or something like that. could make large software projects more manageable and secure in the code.

>>54098674
Ya OK retard sure a deflationary currency is same as inflated beyond the value of the paper its printed on sure are same

>>54095426
>legally
>forced
Just, uh, don't comply? Why should I care what the government says I can or can't do? All my cash and pm's go into my safe, which is bolted to the concrete floor in my basement. Dealing only in cash, pm's, and monero (if digital transactions are necessary) really helps avoid the taxman.
>but what about muh employer's checks!!?!?
I self-employ, and only work off the books for cash, pm's, monero, or barter (guns, ammo, etc). You guys bitch and moan about the system, but continue to participate and comply. You're a white man, act like one and use your brain for once

>>54098840
In 1970 bitcoin did not exist and there was no other choice but the petrodollar

Now we do have a choice
Fuck you kike and fuck your credit you aint taking my bitcoins

Fuck your credit nigger kike
Never needed one nevdr will

>>54094832
Your deposits at the bank are liabilities to the bank.

>>54099651
>i can imagine an ai proofreader doing like a grammar check on your code
This exists for every single programming language with an implementation. Any compiler *has* to do exactly that, any interpreter *has* to do exactly that.

What you are describing is a parser, which in the 70s was nothing new and used widely.

Bug checking is just a far broader version of this.

>>54099739
>In 1970 bitcoin did not exist
In the 70s we still had good software developers. They wouldn't have created sonething so bad.

>>54099352
Inflationary death spiral is the world currently literally death by war in European trenches rn and slavery for the rest
Thanks to debt credit and inflation

Bitcoin fixes this, death to banksters

>>54099774
whatever nerd
clearly i'm implying a more advanced version of whatever currently exists. use your imagination, the ai could be like having a team of professional coders reading over your shoulder and giving you real time pointers and writing entire sections of complex code for your instantly and thats just to start.

>>54099360
Based

>>54099739
gold did, though. bancor did as well. and yet, fiat persevered. gee, i wonder why?

>>54099809
>clearly i'm implying a more advanced version of whatever currently exists.
No you aren't. These grammar checkers are PERFECT they can not be improved in any way. They perfectly describe the grammar of the language, simply because the language *is* what the parser describes.

>>54099792
>Bitcoin fixes this
BTC is literal dogshit. Slavs die because US mutts love blood.

>>54099820
Gold failed because US stole it from everyone else and everyone else was too weak and far away to try to get their gold from Fort Knox
Realising they are so fucked, they began using USD, by force not by rational choice

We have a choice now fuck the Great Sheitan death to jews burn those Dollars

>>54099790
they had to be good they had very little to work with and not much help. they needed to be very efficient to even run their code on the limited hardware of the time. and everything was being done from scratch.

in modern times you don't need to be that good to write code. this is progress. it's like video editing, once there was a high bar of skill required to edit a video, and few had the abilities much less the equipment. now any dumb fuck can do it and we have a flood of user created content some of it quite good and getting better with new tools over time.

>>54099910
yes yes, national interests. you're almost there. what about silver? can you think of a reason why a country might want to control its own money supply? what happens to the cash (and prices) in your country if you have a trade deficit, for example? or a massive trade surplus?

>>54099856
you're taking my words literally and missing the meaning, set aside your asspergers for a moment and realize i'm implying something beyond a simple grammer check im just calling it a grammer check because theres no actual word for what im talking about because it doesnt really exist yet. big think

>>54099944
>this is progress
No, it is degeneration.

>quite good and getting better with new tools over time
Software quality is rapidly declining though.

>>54094344
>Modern bourgeois society, with its relations of production, of exchange and of property, a society that has conjured up such gigantic means of production and of exchange, is like the sorcerer who is no longer able to control the powers of the nether world whom he has called up by his spells.

>>54100000
>because theres no actual word for what im talking about because it doesnt really exist yet
It actually exist and is called "static code analyzer", companies pay big money for them.
Continually you are imagining novel ideas which sadly already exist.

>>54100009
it's not degeneration its decentralization. rather then having to get all your video content from centralized hollywood you can watch content generated by real people instead. its better in some ways, worse in others, but overall i spend more time on youtube then netflix, most people do.

>yes but the way things are now though
clearly i'm not talking about the way things are now. i'm talking hypothetically about how this issue could in the near future be resolved itself by technology specifically ai.

>>54094344
the problem is time.
we treat money that will be made in the future as money that already exists, so we spend and lend it to others.
the problem is when that future comes around and we realize that "future" money we bet on is not going to show up. it just isnt there so now we're in deep shit.

sometimes this happens on a very large scale (2008).

this cant happen in an economy where goods are traded for goods, or if you use a currency backed by a real world resource since you cant spend something you dont already have.

modern money, economics, banking, trading etc. is all fake. we made it all up.

>>54100054
well until your static code analyzer can take a random hobo off the street that has never coded a day in his life and help him write the next award winning app then there's room for improvement you unimaginative asspergers twat

>>54100116
If such software existed, what use would the hobo be? Extending the software to replace the hobo would be the simplest thing in the world.

ChatGPT is about 2% there I woukd say.

>>54095969
he thinks he wasnt born with the i can be the local politician/mayor/council member gene and genuinely thinks they are gods amongst men and every decision they have made has caused nobody to starve to death and doesnt think that they also dont perfectly know what they are doing

>>54095351
>dont offer loans
how to ruin an economy in one simple step

>>54100098
You are a midwit with no idea of technology and no sense of the beauty of technology.
Keep watching your brain damage inducing youtube shorts you tech illiterate cuck.

>>54100161
exactly, it's only 2% there, imagine the possibilities when its 20% of the way there. eventually there will be no use for the hobo but thats fine, the hobo isnt for the ai to use, the ai is for the hobo to use to get what the hobo wants. or any random person not specifically a hobo

>>54100204
>imagine the possibilities when its 20% of the way there
Everything will be worse. Thankfully collapse will have come before that and software developers all have been put to death.
It is hard for me to accept, but yes, me and my ilk need to be hanged.

>>54100239
amen

>>54094524
Fpbp

>>54100239
yes, software will be so much worse when it becomes easier to write for and check for errors and possible optimizations. thats not sarcasm, it will get worse in the same way video got worse. there is a higher percentage of poorly made videos now then at any time in history because now any retard can make a video. but out of that sea of shit rise mountains of talent, i've seen better comedy or better education, out of random fucking youtubers then i've ever seen come out of hollywood. more insightful, more human, more organic videos and a lot of them are shit well code will be the same way when it starts getting as easy as making a video.

>>54100325
Your refrigerator will run an entire operating system to inform the manufacturer with millisecond precision that you opened the door, data he then sells to advertising corporations so they can micro optimize the AI generated media you consume 24 hours a day.
It is completely over. Computers are a mistake.

>>54100392
now that's a genuine concern. not that tech won't progress to being more capable and robust over time but that the twisted system we have now will abuse that tech to put us into some kind of orwellian nightmare. which arguable has already begun

>>54100451
>not that tech won't progress to being more capable and robust over time
Everything gets more fragile all the time. You don't notice becauase you are tech illiterate.

>which arguable has already begun
All journalism is orwellian. From print to TV to your phone it just gets more invasive.

>>54094524
(((usury))), yeah, that
fpbp

>>54097990
boomer humor

>>54098840
>jews are not a satisfactory answer.
it really is though

>>54100487
i noticed. and i never said software isn't getting more fragile over time. you failed to understand my argument which is that maybe it won't be like that in the future because of what ai could do.

yes i would also argue that the orwellian nightmare of the future has already begun. journalism being a prime example.

>>54100254
What is your portfolio anon if you don't mind me asking? What do you currently hold?

>>54094344
>>54094598
>>54095379
>>54095218
>>54094670
Kek, this is diversity quota shill .Literal brainlet

There is nothing complicated actually. You just need to know the JP Morgan ,citi bank, goldmansachs print your currency on interest . Ask your soverign govt to print your own paper currency without interest .Thats it all the system is becomes fine

>>54094344
no ones gonna believe me but I made this picture in mspaint probably in 2011

>>54103237
you did it buddy congrats

>>54094344
working as jewntended

>>54096127
>the purpose of banks is to keep cash flowing and money velocity high. no banks, less growth.
high velocity isn't real growth you fucking kike
I hate you and your MMTalmud

>>54094832
>bro just keep my money safe for a small fee bro thanks!!!!
Retard

>>54094598

It's not complicated when you understand that the base layer is a scam and everything else is just obscurification

>>54100767
It is over.

>>54094598
The world is simple, retard. What makes it complex are the government and oligarchs as a whole in order to trick the masses, like you, into thinking it is a "necessary evil" because it makes it easier to control you. Kys

>>54094344
>people who work in the field
Those are soldiers they don't know shit, the generals know what will happen because they make it happen.
Do you think lord rothschild doesn't know what will happen in a month?
He'll pick the phone, call someone who will call someone who will call JPow and the major networks and Biden and something will be done and the people will be told what you tell the peasants before they go hungry and the soldiers will be told what you tell them to fight, etc.

>>54094344
>print money
>it goes to people who already have too much of it
>repeat
was it really that complicated?

>>54094344
>Make the system so unbelievably immensely overcomplicated where people who work in the field dedicated to watching the system couldn't tell you what will happen a week from now

or are incentivised to lie

when have feral /biz/ autists been wrong despite no economics qualifications

Banks agree to risk tolerances and regulatory requirements when they become allowed to handle others money

All the banks that broke recently were criminally negligent

No one goes to jail for white collat crime unless they are really really dumb, brazen or piss of a politician or some combination

>>54094344
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does

So what does the system do?

>>54094344